Silly Season 2015

[liposh]

Knowing way of Prokop´s thinking he will never return to WRC2. He will drive WRC as long as possible. One day in far future when he will not find budget for whole season in WRC he will do only few events in WRC per year with some training in czech one-day events or something like that.

[RAS007]

I have a secret power....

It is called common sense... if people would use it more and act their age the world would be a better place.

We are talking about a 40 year old guy... Yes he has won the most titles but to talk about a return to the sport is a bit far fetched, a decision like that would only spoil his reputation...

Fixed that for ya.

[N.O.T]

so who was your favourite driver that Loeb ridiculed and degraded to a garbage roaming dog barking for a few table scraps ? the list is long of course and spans a lot of years but the answer is easy in your case.

[RAS007]

so who was your favourite driver that Loeb ridiculed and degraded to a garbage roaming dog barking for a few table scraps ? the list is long of course and spans a lot of years but the answer is easy in your case.

Probably Kankkunen. 4 titles with 3 different manufacturers. Loeb would never have dared to leave Citroen, and faced practically no competition for 5 of his 9 titles, after Gronholm retired.

[N.O.T]

Why would he leave the best team ? who would have done that ? who ever did that ? who would leave a working environment that provides him with money and success ? Are you guys "special" ?

Little boys who will never grow up just because you do not like the best of all times...

and in the words of Floyd mayweather senior... Not this time not that time... but of aaaaall times...

just to settle in, in your little frozen hearts... it hurts more this way.

[Rallyper]

Why would he leave the best team ? who would have done that ? who ever did that ? who would leave a working environment that provides him with money and success ? Are you guys "special" ?



I would say the guy who wants new challenges. But the guy we´re talking about wouldn´t dare. He´d make same amount of money, I´m sure, but as said challenge too big for his ego.

[N.O.T]

Can you name a person in any kind of job who quits his company to join an inferior one just for the challenge ? you guys are from earth right ?

[lewalcindor]

^ I agree. It's not like Kankunnen was quixotic person looking to spread his talents to different teams. The circumstances at the time pushed him to join new teams every now and then.

Also, you can't really compare the two eras because of the respective number of available works teams in each. In Loeb's prime (let's say 2007 for argument's sake), he realistically only had three teams he could join (Citroen, Ford, Subaru). And in 2009, he only had two teams he could join (Subaru dropped out). Meanwhile, when Kankunnen won his final WRC title in 1993, he could have joined 5 different teams (Toyota, Lancia, Ford, Subaru, Mitsubishi) with a semi-realistic chance of winning.

[skarderud]

Can you name a person in any kind of job who quits his company to join an inferior one just for the challenge ? you guys are from earth right ?
Valentino rossi did that.

Ostberg was testing the upgraded ds3 today, seems that he drives a ds3 next year then.

[N.O.T]

Valentino rossi did that.

Ostberg was testing the upgraded ds3 today, seems that he drives a ds3 next year then.

No he did not... he was after the money. Ducati even cancelled their factory support to sbk to pay his salary...

[skarderud]

No, when he changed fram honda to yamaha. Maybe he was after the money to but he wanted to see if he could win with yamaha also.

[EstWRC]

Valentino rossi did that.

Ostberg was testing the upgraded ds3 today, seems that he drives a ds3 next year then.

yeap, here is a video and a article about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTEpilsCi6c&feature=youtu.be
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2014/11/20/oestberg-testet-2015er-citroen/index.html

interesting if he agreed the 10 rally deal. i guess Paddon to Hyundai after all then and Kubica 3rd Citroen car?

[Barreis]

Citroen and Kubica...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116842

[stefanvv]

Ostberg was testing the upgraded ds3 today, seems that he drives a ds3 next year then.

Probably this is part of his contract for this year?!?

[stefanvv]

Colin McRae also went to M-Sport for the money. Hardly a better team, eh?

[mousti]

New wing for DS3 btw..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[Ifox95]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??

He would of done a lot better in ERC if it weren't for mechanical issues with the 208 R5

His pace is up there with Evans , Tanak & Paddon . Surely worthy of consideration for a seat at M-Sport ??

[N.O.T]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??

No... not a single one. he is good enough for ERC and that is it.

[EstWRC]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??

He would of done a lot better in ERC if it weren't for mechanical issues with the 208 R5

His pace is up there with Evans , Tanak & Paddon . Surely worthy of consideration for a seat at M-Sport ??

he is miles behind Tänak, not so many miles behind Evans and Paddon. and what N.O.T said, just good enough for ERC.

[RS]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??


That depends how many teams there are really. Currently no, but I think guys like virtual rookie Evans show it is not that hard to do a half decent job in WRC. Taking the step to being an event winner or a potential champion is much harder

[dimviii]

Fredrik Gustavsson
‏@F_Gustavsson
@MadYarpen Paddon confirmed he will do 9 rallies 2015, and Qassimi will do 4.
But of course, the most likely is that he stays with Hyundai.

[RAS007]

I would say the guy who wants new challenges. But the guy we´re talking about wouldn´t dare. He´d make same amount of money, I´m sure, but as said challenge too big for his ego.

+1.

[noel157]

he is miles behind Tänak, not so many miles behind Evans and Paddon. and what N.O.T said, just good enough for ERC.

Would tend to agree. Tanak has that raw speed. Breen may improve.
Breen will be making an announcement shortly about next season.

[mousti]

Bertelli next with Bernacchini longtime codriver of Nasser. Means Nasser changes co or will not be very active in WRC next year..

[N.O.T]

From one tourist to another...

[N.O.T]

I would say the guy who wants new challenges. But the guy we´re talking about wouldn´t dare. He´d make same amount of money, I´m sure, but as said challenge too big for his ego.

Can you name a person who left his team for "new challenges" that did not include more money or a better car or bad relatons with the team management?? I think in the history of employment (let alone motorsport/sports) it is hard to locate such cases...

But this is a discussion we did many times before.. and that is the majesty of the greatest motorsport driver of all times... he humiliated and degraded so many peasants that were idols to little boys and girls and people hate him for that...

Well some times little boys in your fairy tale world or star trek universe comes a real dragon that devours all the white knights and the little princesses you kids believe in... it hurts your little souls or what is left of it after you pass on to adulthood and all you have left is bitterness... i must say it is tasty and fun.

[RAS007]

...and that is the majesty of the greatest motorsport driver of all times...

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool..... you seem like a smart fellow, but that comment really is a clown show.

[noel157]

No surprise, Tanak goes to M-Sport.

[nafpaktos]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??

He would of done a lot better in ERC if it weren't for mechanical issues with the 208 R5

His pace is up there with Evans , Tanak & Paddon . Surely worthy of consideration for a seat at M-Sport ??

If Evans is the yardstick then I believe a lot of drivers could join wrc.

[N.O.T]

Evans pays to drive he did not "join" anything...

[faateris]

to N.O.T:

You talk about rally or what? Nasser tourist?
Tourist can be only You........sorry

[N.O.T]

tourist with sunglasses.

[A FONDO]

to N.O.T:

You talk about rally or what? Nasser tourist?
Tourist can be only You........sorry

A tourist driver goes on the stages and meets famous people.
BOT is a just a home alone masturbator.

[nafpaktos]

Evans pays to drive he did not "join" anything...

i didnt say he is not paying.i say if evans can be on the wrc then MANY drivers can(if they pay of course).i dont think we disagree to something.

[GigiGalliNo1]

tourist with sunglasses.

Nasser is a tourist or a gentleman?

I like Nasser and know Nasser personally. He does what he loves and is good at it... not at WRC level just yet - so he's not a Novikov or who ever else is in the top level as a Tourist...

[mohit]

N.O.T'

You are rude man please calm down.

thanks

[bassist]

I see the N.O.T. fan club are here again! How is he so popular???

[jonkka]

I see the N.O.T. fan club are here again! How is he so popular???

Well, he isn't 'cause his bluntness upsets most people. But to give N.O.T credit, he is right more often than he is not (which isn't that hard because most silly season rumors are made up by people who wish things to be so).

[rallyfiend]

Evans pays to drive he did not "join" anything...

Evans has no money - he's not paying. Admittedly he's not getting paid a lot of money to drive, but he's not paying per se.

[N.O.T]

I am the the one you all love to hate...

It happens with people who are always right.

[N.O.T]

Nasser is a tourist or a gentleman?

I like Nasser and know Nasser personally. He does what he loves and is good at it... not at WRC level just yet - so he's not a Novikov or who ever else is in the top level as a Tourist...

the fact that you know him personally and the fact that he does what he loves does not exclude him from the tourist with sunglasses class... i doubt any one doing rallying is there out of boredom so everyone loves it but the skill level differs.

[Zeakiwi]

Where is Hanninen for 2015? I seem to have over looked this. Is Sordo still not doing the full calendar of events.
I would have like to have seen how Hanninen would have driven in a full works DS3 rather than a fiesta full of recycled parts or an i20 in a development year.
or perhaps even a 2 car team with Mikkelsen at VW.

[GigiGalliNo1]

the fact that you know him personally and the fact that he does what he loves does not exclude him from the tourist with sunglasses class... i doubt any one doing rallying is there out of boredom so everyone loves it but the skill level differs.

No problems NOT I understand, and I just merely asked the question if he is a tourist or gentleman.... Is he one of the good tourists in the sport or would some prefer him to give opportunities to younger drivers as he has done in the past i.e. Neuville.

[BDA Cosworth]

Does not anyone think Craig Breen is worthy of a WRC seat ??

He would of done a lot better in ERC if it weren't for mechanical issues with the 208 R5

His pace is up there with Evans , Tanak & Paddon . Surely worthy of consideration for a seat at M-Sport ??

Paddon won 75% of all the SWRC stages he competed in when he ran against Breen. Breen won the championship due to less mechanical issues and less mistakes overall.

There is always going to be a favouritism for European drivers because that is where most of the rallying gets done. It seems to get the notice of WRC supporters someone needs to fly out of the gate like a rocket, crash and then be admired. Not so sure I get that. Tanak feels a bit like that for me.

[mohit]

N.O.T.
you rock man.

you should have a dedicated thread for yourself too.........

seriously as, your opinions are damn blunt

[AndyRAC]

Paddon won 75% of all the SWRC stages he competed in when he ran against Breen. Breen won the championship due to less mechanical issues and less mistakes overall.

There is always going to be a favouritism for European drivers because that is where most of the rallying gets done. It seems to get the notice of WRC supporters someone needs to fly out of the gate like a rocket, crash and then be admired. Not so sure I get that. Tanak feels a bit like that for me.


Paddon needs to be doing a full programme - a few events here and there is no good to any driver; this is were Hyundai have got it slightly wrong. Being from NZ shouldnt be a handicap - Brendon Hartley has got a full factory drive for Porsche in a LMP1 car.

[N.O.T]

N.O.T.
you rock man.

you should have a dedicated thread for yourself too.........

seriously as, your opinions are damn blunt

I do not think my opinions are blunt, they are based on pure logic, no emotional stuff and no compulsive obsessive disorders with the sport that lead to blunt remarks. So i think you are wrong.

[nafpaktos]

Paddon won 75% of all the SWRC stages he competed in when he ran against Breen. Breen won the championship due to less mechanical issues and less mistakes overall.

There is always going to be a favouritism for European drivers because that is where most of the rallying gets done. It seems to get the notice of WRC supporters someone needs to fly out of the gate like a rocket, crash and then be admired. Not so sure I get that. Tanak feels a bit like that for me.

I don't get you.you are fast you take a chance,it's that simple.i don't think non european drivers were fast but they didn't take chance,if I am wrong please name a few drivers.

[nafpaktos]

Formoula 1 is also european but a lot of well known drivers are-was not Europeans.

[N.O.T]

Paddon won 75% of all the SWRC stages he competed in when he ran against Breen. Breen won the championship due to less mechanical issues and less mistakes overall.

There is always going to be a favouritism for European drivers because that is where most of the rallying gets done. It seems to get the notice of WRC supporters someone needs to fly out of the gate like a rocket, crash and then be admired. Not so sure I get that. Tanak feels a bit like that for me.

I think it has to do more with the fact that the car manufacturers that are involved in rallying have as a target market the european nations to sell their cars... so they prefer drivers local to europe to use as promoters on their respective markets. A driver from another continent doesn't have much of commercial value to them.

[jonkka]

I think it has to do more with the fact that the car manufacturers that are involved in rallying have as a target market the european nations to sell their cars...

Interesting claim given that only Citroen has strong Eurocentrism in their operations. VW is worlds biggest manufacturer of cars, Hyundai is from Asia and Ford is synonym for global automotive company. Though, it can be argued that they may be present in WRC to promote their products in Europe but that would be interesting claim as European car market has been on decline, having only recently turned back to positive track. Then again, most of the WRC rounds are in Europe.

[Mirek]

I think that N.O.T is basically right. The WRC activities of all those brands are in my opinion primarily focused on Europe. That's especially true in case of Hyundai. In my opinion the only reason why they chose WRC is that all their main rivals on European market are there - VAG, Ford and PSA. Battling or even beating them can rise the brand's prestige to a new heights and frankly the conservative western European market is a lot about prestige.

[BDA Cosworth]

I don't get you.you are fast you take a chance,it's that simple.i don't think non european drivers were fast but they didn't take chance,if I am wrong please name a few drivers.

I think there may be a "lost in translation" thing going on here.

What I was saying is drivers like Tanak go fast from the outset, and retire from the top 4 on events because they overdrive or chuck it off the road. They get the attention.

Others who don't have the benefit of being bank rolled choose where to go fast when the car feels like it will be fast. They set a fastest stage time or two, then get to the finish if the car doesn't seem to be suiting their style.

I suppose that its easier to teach someone to slow down, then it is to speed up. :)

I'm sure that given the opportunity there are people quicker then Ogier out there (as impossible as that may seem). They may not even have heard of rallying. After all there are 5 billion people in the world and less then 1% of them with the funds required to even get into rallying in the first place. Just food for thought.

[N.O.T]

I'm sure that given the opportunity there are people quicker then Ogier out there (as impossible as that may seem). They may not even have heard of rallying. After all there are 5 billion people in the world and less then 1% of them with the funds required to even get into rallying in the first place. Just food for thought.

well you can expand this thought to every profession imaginable... it doesn't mean anything.

[Franky]

I think there may be a "lost in translation" thing going on here.

What I was saying is drivers like Tanak go fast from the outset, and retire from the top 4 on events because they overdrive or chuck it off the road. They get the attention.

Others who don't have the benefit of being bank rolled choose where to go fast when the car feels like it will be fast. They set a fastest stage time or two, then get to the finish if the car doesn't seem to be suiting their style.

I suppose that its easier to teach someone to slow down, then it is to speed up. :)

I'm sure that given the opportunity there are people quicker then Ogier out there (as impossible as that may seem). They may not even have heard of rallying. After all there are 5 billion people in the world and less then 1% of them with the funds required to even get into rallying in the first place. Just food for thought.

With a few fastest stage times the attention you can generate is quite small, unless you dominate with a clearly inferior car.

And a small update on the world population. We've already passed the seven billion mark ;)

[Alfa Fan]

stop posting lies...

Well so far he's doing 1/1 at Monte. Perhaps you could bring your arrogance down a notch?

[nafpaktos]

I'm sure that given the opportunity there are people quicker then Ogier out there (as impossible as that may seem). They may not even have heard of rallying. After all there are 5 billion people in the world and less then 1% of them with the funds required to even get into rallying in the first place. Just food for thought.

True but irrelevant to our conversation.also a boy from an isolated place in Africa could have been better than messi if he knew what football is,what's the meaning of these kind of thoughts

[N.O.T]

Well so far he's doing 1/1 at Monte. Perhaps you could bring your arrogance down a notch?

perhaps you can find something else to bother with now that the ladyboy cup you are a fan of is over...

he talked about all tarmac rounds... Loeb and monte was known before. Check his lies about the driver transfers as well since you follow.

[Rallyper]

Loeb maybe found out that going round in circles wasn´t that fun it seemed?

[N.O.T]

Loeb maybe found out that going round in circles wasn´t that fun it seemed?

he was always doing track events, he just wants to have fun in a rally car once again.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

he was always doing track events, he just wants to have fun in a rally car once again.

Will it be 'fun' for him if he gets beaten and tarnishes his Monte legacy ?

Loeb re Monte: "I have a lot of good memories; I hope that the 2015 Rallye Monte-Carlo will provide yet another... Obviously, it’s going to be a personal challenge for me."

[AndyRAC]

Loeb maybe found out that going round in circles wasn´t that fun it seemed?

Can't say I'm surprised. The WTCC is hardly a huge challenge - FWD saloon cars, with races over 20-30 minutes. Might be different if it was a 6/12/24 hour race in a 450BHP Sportscar.

[RAS007]

Loeb maybe found out that going round in circles wasn´t that fun it seemed?

Plus the fact that he actually has some competition in the WTCC, I'm sure he doesn't like that too much…

[N.O.T]

Will it be 'fun' for him if he gets beaten and tarnishes his Monte legacy ?

Loeb re Monte: "I have a lot of good memories; I hope that the 2015 Rallye Monte-Carlo will provide yet another... Obviously, it’s going to be a personal challenge for me."

In your star trek universe he might even be depressed after losing Monte next year...

In the world we call earth i think he will try his best as always and if he finishes the rally in top 5 he will be happy... he has nothing else to prove or to take away from anyone anymore... he tarnished legacies of champions new and old, turned fans into haters and even now that he comes back to have fun the nightmares coem alive for some... so i think he will try his best and have fun, the thing is at the age of 40 and with 2 years out of the sport even the best of all times will not manage to win and he knows that.

[dimviii]

Plus the fact that he actually has some competition in the WTCC, I'm sure he doesn't like that too much…

you mean that Ogier and polo/vw with double budget is not competition for him?
is he so superior?

[RAS007]

you mean that Ogier and polo/vw with double budget is not competition for him?
is he so superior?

The Loeb Love is still strong, I see. Well, we will never know how he would have stacked up against Ogier and VW, will we? Your hero "retired" before we had the chance to see...

[dimviii]

The Loeb Love is still strong, I see. Well, we will never know how he would have stacked up against Ogier and VW, will we? Your hero "retired" before we had the chance to see...

you didnt saw Loeb against Ogier?
you didnt saw that while he was retired he took 2 rallies with big difference from the super duper polo and vw with double budget? also he lost the other 2 rallies (one from exit of road) while he was some 2-3 seconds beside Ogier at day 3 with some wrong tyre choice at day 1 (when he lost some 12 sec if i remember right)?
so we saw who is faster and better overall,even when he was retired.
At previous years there is no question as you know.

[mousti]

LOL So much posts,tweets and news about it and some declare it a big comeback. It's will be an one off just to enjoy some competition in january. He will continue in WTCC, why would he return to WRC?

[N.O.T]

you didnt saw Loeb against Ogier?
you didnt saw that while he was retired he took 2 rallies with big difference from the super duper polo and vw with double budget? also he lost the other 2 rallies (one from exit of road) while he was some 2-3 seconds beside Ogier at day 3 with some wrong tyre choice at day 1 (when he lost some 12 sec if i remember right)?
so we saw who is faster and better overall,even when he was retired.
At previous years there is no question as you know.

Loeb gave them too many beatings and most of them were on the head... so that excuses the memory loss... forgive them.

It is a defence mechanism to forget the bad memories... makes life easier... LOL

[Barreis]

About Loeb and MC...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116924

[stefanvv]

you didnt saw Loeb against Ogier?

I didn't see that full season in independent teams. That's what is missing from the picture.

[N.O.T]

If after decades of dominance you still missing parts of the picture you have some issues...

[stefanvv]

Decades? wow. I thought it is only 1. I don't mind Loeb's dominance by driving, but some people have some point

[N.O.T]

Decades? wow. I thought it is only 1. I don't mind Loeb's dominance by driving, but some people have some point

what point ? that he did not stay in the sport until the age of 50 in order someone to beat him ? they do not have any point at all.. they are just bitter because he ridiculed their doggys.

[stefanvv]

what point ? that he did not stay in the sport until the age of 50 in order someone to beat him ?

Noooo, the point he was privileged in the team. No one can deny it.

[N.O.T]

Noooo, the point he was privileged in the team. No one can deny it.

Ogier isn't privileged in VW ? Makkinen was not privileged in Mitsubishi ? Gronholm wasn't privileged in Peugeot ? Isn't it normal for a team to privilege the golden boy of each team ?

What you ignore is that Loeb started as everyone else and gained this privilege !! he turned established divas like sainz and Mcrae to scared little dogs that just lost their owner and pushed both of them to retirement and clown shows in the US.

[BDA Cosworth]

With a few fastest stage times the attention you can generate is quite small, unless you dominate with a clearly inferior car.

And a small update on the world population. We've already passed the seven billion mark ;)

Hahaha like Ogier in the S2000 Skoda?

Seven billion, I last checked that number over 10 years ago lol. I'm surprised that we haven't run out of air already with NOT on this board. ;)

[stefanvv]

Ogier isn't privileged in VW ? Makkinen was not privileged in Mitsubishi ? Gronholm wasn't privileged in Peugeot ? Isn't it normal for a team to privilege the golden boy of each team ?

It is normal sometimes perhaps, I haven't noticed for others, at least it was not systematic, in case of Loeb this was, enough to gain lot of anti fans I guess. He shouldn't complain he has some.

[N.O.T]

It is normal sometimes perhaps, I haven't noticed for others, at least it was not systematic, in case of Loeb this was, enough to gain lot of anti fans I guess. He shouldn't complain he has some.

state the facts please of this systematic favouritism...

[Ounin]

Funny to hear from another angle, world touring cars, that there are strong rumors about newly formed Loeb Racing Citroen Team, strongly supported by Citroen, contesting WTCC in 2015, with Robert Kubica as the driver. Kubica will do a selected WRC tarmac programm when WTCC schedule alowes. Let's see if it's true coming weeks.

[bluuford]

Radik Shaymiev will do WRC2, starting from Sweden. He is going to use Fiesta R5, from MMM.

[RAS007]

state the facts please of this systematic favouritism...

Please state the opposition Loeb faced for his last 5 titles, after Gronholm retired.

[tommeke_B]

Please state the opposition Loeb faced for his last 5 titles, after Gronholm retired.
It's not his fault that there was no competition...

But remember that Loeb, in his 2nd WRC-season was beating Sainz, Burns, Gronholm, McRae, Mäkinen etc? On tarmac he was beating many WRC-stars already on his first events with the Xsara WRC in 2001/2002. What he was doing back then, with so little experience, already proved that he was a different driver. He was extremely fast, and rarely made mistakes. He doesn't have the most likeable personality, but you can't go around the fact that he's the best rallydriver ever existed.

[N.O.T]

Please state the opposition Loeb faced for his last 5 titles, after Gronholm retired.

What did you want him to do about that ??

[Nornbugger]

It's not his fault that there was no competition...

But remember that Loeb, in his 2nd WRC-season was beating Sainz, Burns, Gronholm, McRae, Mäkinen etc? On tarmac he was beating many WRC-stars already on his first events with the Xsara WRC in 2001/2002. What he was doing back then, with so little experience, already proved that he was a different driver. He was extremely fast, and rarely made mistakes. He doesn't have the most likeable personality, but you can't go around the fact that he's the best rallydriver ever existed.

I'd agree with all the above except for the personality bit

[BDA Cosworth]

I'd agree with all the above except for the personality bit

Same. He's pretty good for a Frenchman. The old Peugeot team boss (Privoit?) was a bit of an arrogant ass.

[RAS007]

What did you want him to do about that ??

Can you just answer the question?

[Doon]

Can you just answer the question?

Loeb faced the same opposition as Ogier does now, so why is the question relevant?

[RAS007]

Loeb faced the same opposition as Ogier does now, so why is the question relevant?

We aren't talking about Ogier. I agree that Loeb is one of the greats, I just don't think that he is the greatest; the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition. I would have loved to see him try for a title in another car, or not to have "retired" just as VW were arriving on the scene. The WRC would have been better for it.

[stefanvv]

state the facts please of this systematic favouritism...

This isn't trial so to state who, when, why and how many times, etc. This is public secret and many have seen it many times while he practically had no other opposition than his own team mates. I'm just trying to explain that to worship someone is more complex than simple "feelings" like "I hate him, just because he is the best". So he is, and even without this favouritism, still would have more titles than anyone else in WRC, how strong or weak is the opposition, still many can argue, but the fact is that his last titles were practically with just 1 team as concurrent. To be really that good for me means You have to be in every aspect and prove it over time, again, and again, not just take it as granted after some time, when it is more easy and You have lots of credits for what You've given. At the end appears You gain much more than You actually deserve, that's my point.

[makinen_fan]

the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition.

I know it is pointless to answer and you will now start the same story of why he stayed at Citroen and he retired when VW came in WRC and blah blah blah... but lets see the number again:

Didn't Hirvonen take it to last rally to decide the title two times (2009 and 2011)? This to me seems there was some competition. Look again to the championship standings from 2004-2007, the differences are greater than you think, except 2007. Remember 2006 he was away for 4 rallies. Here are the average points differences from champion (adjusted to 25 points for win before 2010):




2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014


2
0.18
5.63
8.75
0.16
0.63
3.17
0.21
8.08
0.62
4.38
8.77
3.77


3
1.61
6.09
8.75
7.34
2.66
9.50
6.04
8.23
2.00
8.92
9.85
9.00


4
2.50
7.03
10.78
9.06
7.97
10.67
10.83
8.38
3.85
9.31
12.62
10.85


5
4.11
8.75
11.56
9.84
10.78
12.00
12.08
9.69
8.62
11.23
12.85
12.23



To me it seems that 2004-2005 and 2010 were the years with the least competition but still you (and some others) only talk about after Marcus retired...
Also have in mind that in 2013 Ogier was way more dominant than Loeb ever was. Does this mean he didn't deserve the championship?

[Doon]

We aren't talking about Ogier. I agree that Loeb is one of the greats, I just don't think that he is the greatest; the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition. I would have loved to see him try for a title in another car, or not to have "retired" just as VW were arriving on the scene. The WRC would have been better for it.

Absolutely, I'd have loved to see Loeb in the Ford or any other car in that period, however which driver in the history of the WRC has left the best team to find a new challenge? None.

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some. How long can one man be at the top of his game though? Loeb passed his peak very gracefully, and in Monte Carlo he will show he is still the greatest despite a lack of rallying (and an inferior car).

[Franky]

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some.

In a way he did with the limited very last season

[dimviii]

In a way he did with the limited very last season

of course hi did it.Fast at every surface,inside the battle for win for all 4 rallies.

[lewalcindor]

Absolutely, I'd have loved to see Loeb in the Ford or any other car in that period, however which driver in the history of the WRC has left the best team to find a new challenge? None.

Mainly true, but not completely.

Kankunnen left Lancia, which was easily the best Group A team in 1987, because he felt that despite winning a the drivers championship for them, he was getting short-shrifted in favor of his Italian teammates. He spent two seasons driving an inferior Celica ST165 that was still being developed.

Sainz left what was arguably the best team in 1993 (Toyota Team Europe), apparently because his oil company sponsor (Repsol, I believe) was no longer sponsoring TTE, which was now sponsored by Castrol. He went over to a Lancia team that was no longer a works team.

[stefanvv]

I think Loeb vs VW would have confirmed he is the greatest, but because he never took up the challenge there will always be question marks for some.

There is no question mark. Loeb was close to retirement few years ago, and facing VW/Ogier challenge would not be in his favour at all, despite this was VW first year, he would never take the win here.

[nafpaktos]

Mainly true, but not completely.



Sainz left what was arguably the best team in 1993 (Toyota Team Europe), apparently because his oil company sponsor (Repsol, I believe) was no longer sponsoring TTE, which was now sponsored by Castrol. He went over to a Lancia team that was no longer a works team.
You mean he was getting extra money from his sponsor apart from the contract he had with the team?

[Mirek]

...the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition...

That's twisted logic. It was him who made them looking like no opposition. If he was not there You could follow 5 years of battles for the title and maybe You would celebrate how great years those were. How would You know they were so bad if there was nobody better? It's Loeb who made them looking like bunch of amateurs and that's why he is the greatest of all because nobody else ever managed to beat his rivals for almost a decade so badly that people started to think others are just so bad.

[lewalcindor]

You mean he was getting extra money from his sponsor apart from the contract he had with the team?

Yes. Apparently Repsol also provided money to back Sainz, and when Castrol came in to replace Repsol as the head sponsor of TTE, Sainz had to leave.

[dimviii]

Yes. Apparently Repsol also provided money to back Sainz, and when Castrol came in to replace Repsol as the head sponsor of TTE, Sainz had to leave.

so Sainz didn t choose to leave from a works team to a private team,but his personal sponsor.

Kankkunen left Lancia because somebody else was the favourate driver,and not to proove that he can win with another car/make.

[stefanvv]

That's twisted logic. It was him who made them looking like no opposition. If he was not there You could follow 5 years of battles for the title and maybe You would celebrate how great years those were. How would You know they were so bad if there was nobody better? It's Loeb who made them looking like bunch of amateurs and that's why he is the greatest of all because nobody else ever managed to beat his rivals for almost a decade so badly that people started to think others are just so bad.

May be that's why IRC was so popular those years. There was actually some competition....

[dimviii]

May be that's why IRC was so popular those years. There was actually some competition....

yeap because there wasnt any driver with big difference from the others.

[stefanvv]

yeap because there wasnt any driver with big difference from the others.

And why we should celebrate the "tradition" as it was few years ago, when it would be so much better at present?

[N.O.T]

May be that's why IRC was so popular those years. There was actually some competition....

IRC was never popular... IRC was (and is) followed by some hardcore rally fans and that is it... you can see that from the amount of people you see on the stages.

[Mirek]

IRC was never popular... IRC was (and is) followed by some hardcore rally fans and that is it... you can see that from the amount of people you see on the stages.

Not that I would disagree with You but You chose a wrong argument. I'm pretty sure number of spectators on stages of Ypres or Barum has regularly exceeded many WRC events. I don't want to play numbers as it's a question how do organizations or police count spectators in each country but the only WRC rally which has clearly more spectators than Ypres is Argentina.

[stefanvv]

IRC was never popular... IRC was (and is) followed by some hardcore rally fans and that is it... you can see that from the amount of people you see on the stages.

Somehow for me it seems IRC got more attention than WRC, despite the amount of people in the stages. WRC Rally is WRC Rally no matter what....

[N.O.T]

Not that I would disagree with You but You chose a wrong argument. I'm pretty sure number of spectators on stages of Ypres or Barum has regularly exceeded many WRC events. I don't want to play numbers as it's a question how do organizations or police count spectators in each country but the only WRC rally which has clearly more spectators than Ypres is Argentina.

Both Belgium and Czech republic do not have a WRC round... comparison is better done between countries that host both, or hosted one and the other.

[dimviii]

And why we should celebrate the "tradition" as it was few years ago,
nobody celebrating the ''tradition'',just mentioning the facts as it was few years ago.


when it would be so much better at present?

you really saw strong competition to Ogier this year or the previous?

[stefanvv]

nobody celebrating the ''tradition'',just mentioning the facts as it was few years ago.
How facts few years ago are relevant when You have actual competition at present, this is ridiculous....


you really saw strong competition to Ogier this year or the previous?
No, but how is this relevant? Loeb absence?

[Nornbugger]

We aren't talking about Ogier. I agree that Loeb is one of the greats, I just don't think that he is the greatest; the fact remains that for 5 of his 9 titles, he faced practically no opposition, which is something some are unwilling to admit. Obviously, this was not Loeb's fault, but after 2007, the championship had effectively ceased to be a competition. I would have loved to see him try for a title in another car, or not to have "retired" just as VW were arriving on the scene. The WRC would have been better for it.

If he had lost a title too Hiroven or Latvala, or another to Solberg would you then regard him higher? The opposition was not weak, they just appeared to be as they were bettered so often by Loeb, as has been pointed out he ended the career of some big names who had absolutely no answer to his pace and consistency on all surfaces

[dimviii]

How facts few years ago are relevant when You have actual competition at present, this is ridiculous....
no you havent got any competition at all last 2 years.Ogier with plenty of mistakes was champion before the end of championship.



No, but how is this relevant? Loeb absence?
Nothing to do with Loebs absence.Ogier is just much better from current drivers.
its the same scenario,but Loebs haters they see that now exists competition.
they see competition between vw budget and ford/citroens and they see competition between Sordo/Evans/Ostberg/Hirvonen/Neuville vs Ogier and Latvala.
they see so much competition that these years are better comparing to Loebs era.
Hyundai havent got a car fast yet to face straight the polo.
hyundais best/fastest driver is only Neuville with 1 win
ford has a good car but one driver still learning while the other one decided to stop due to bad results
citroen has one driver that saw 1st time the whole championship,while the other one seems that has decreasing pace and never in win fight mode.
citroens and fords budget is less than half of vw budget.
But you see that now is better...

but Loeb ruined the sport...

laughable....

[N.O.T]

Nothing to do with Loebs absence.Ogier is just much better from current drivers.
its the same scenario,but Loebs haters they see that now exists competition.
they see competition between vw budget and ford/citroens and they see competition between Sordo/Evans/Ostberg/Hirvonen/Neuville vs Ogier and Latvala.
they see so much competition that these years are better comparing to Loebs era.
Hyundai havent got a car fast yet to face straight the polo.
hyundais best/fastest driver is only Neuville with 1 win
ford has a good car but one driver still learning while the other one decided to stop due to bad results
citroen has one driver that saw 1st time the whole championship,while the other one seems that has decreasing pace and never in win fight mode.
citroens and fords budget is less than half of vw budget.
But you see that now is better...

but Loeb ruined the sport...

laughable....

Loeb shattered too many dreams and ridiculed many heros of the past...

being greek you know that we reffered to people like sainz, mcrae, makinen, kankkunen and some other doggys (compared ot the greatest) as GODS...

and now they saw this french short stocky guy with not such a flamboyant personality to enter the sport and treat these gods like they are nothing... he beat them up, he tore them apart and dragged their remains behind his red chariot like Achilles did with Hektor... he literally forced these god doggys to retirement at relatively early age or even worse he sent them to lesser championships dressed as clowns to entertain the girls at the circus... so the pain and the suffering is understandable.

Imagine if someone did this to the guy you look up to...

I feel sorry for these guys because i have a tender heart... it is one of the reasons girls love me... and sheep.

[Rallyper]

So what are the main topic here? Silly season or Loeb era against Ogier era?

[N.O.T]

silly season is over... so we moved to far more entertaining stuff...

[KiwiWRCfan]

silly season is over... so we moved to far more entertaining stuff...

Ooops I must have been asleep when silly season ended.

Who got the second seat at Citroen ?
What happened to other drivers after Citroen confirmed who will drive the no. 4 car for majority of 2015 ?

I missed the last dominoes falling into place

[Ounin]

Indeed silly season is as good as over. Except the last puzzle of DS.
But for me loads of other question marks f.i. the customer entries; normally M-Sport have some 4 extra WRC's for rent available. I'm also very curious of the PH-Sport rumours, are they entering a WRC car next to the R5 Citroen for Lefevbre and if yes, is Kubica involved.
And last but not least what are the plans of Tidemand, Kruuda, Chardonnet, Prokop, the Russians etc etc. Everybody has mentioned Abbring the whole season, does he have a WRC or an ERC contract? I'm sure I have forgotten some, but still, expectations enough.

[EstWRC]

Kruuda has confirmed that he will be in WRC2 and is going for the title but he hasn't said with which car and what rallies.

[Ounin]

Kruuda has had a great job by winning some WRC2 drives and being Finnish rally champ, for me one of the most developed and matured drivers of 2014.
With the Russians I meant Protasov and Novikov. My heart goes out for Alexey Lukyanuc the man with the biggest rally heart in the world but, a WRC drive is too much of a dream for him.
I forgot Bertelli. Strong link to Ford but with own team or M-Sport private entry?

[EightGear]

Ostberg has just been confirmed at Citroen.

[mousti]

Pity but okay, money speaks offcourse..

[MartijnS]

I can live with it. Would have preferred Abbring offcourse but rather see Ostberg than one of the French guys.

[EstWRC]

Booooring, hoped for Paddon or Abbring.

[N.O.T]

The pockets of Ostbergs dad won at the end as expected... that is what happens when you have a semi private team instead of a manufacturer.

[janvanvurpa]

The pockets of Ostbergs dad won at the end as expected... that is what happens when you have a semi private team instead of a manufacturer.

I've always said to young guys who are starting in rally who (always) ask "waht do I do if I want top be a (whatever) rally driver?"

I say "go back and choose your parents carefully".

[Juha_Koo]

Where is Citroen Racing's official press release concerning Østberg?

EDIT: Here: http://www.citroenracing.com/en/2014/news/wrc-news/47075/mads-ostberg-stay-citroen-racing-2015/

[EightGear]

Where is Citroen Racing's official press release concerning Østberg?

Here: http://www.citroenracing.com/en/2014/news/wrc-news/47075/mads-ostberg-stay-citroen-racing-2015/

[Karukera]

No more split times to cars on stages.
If no teams Gents agreement, i'd like to see how they will enforce that.

http://www.fia.com/node/9172

[N.O.T]

No more split times to cars on stages.
If no teams Gents agreement, i'd like to see how they will enforce that.

http://www.fia.com/node/9172

It is not hard to enfornce really... and it is even easier to get cought if you try anything.

[WUff1]

Kruuda has confirmed that he will be in WRC2 and is going for the title but he hasn't said with which car and what rallies.

Suppose with Fiesta from Printsport again - see Jänner Rallye thread in ERC forum.

[Rallyper]

Further news is coming next week....!

[EstWRC]

about who?

[EightGear]

about who?

About Citroen Racing, but I expect that to be about WTCC.

[WRC1]

About Citroen Racing, but I expect that to be about WTCC.

could be about R.Kubica as well...

[EightGear]

could be about R.Kubica as well...

Or both. ;)

[cosmin_sb]

In one of the Romanian motor sport magazine it is wrote that Delecour would do all the round of the new RGT championship with Tuthill Porsche. Any other news about this?

[PLuto]

In one of the Romanian motor sport magazine it is wrote that Delecour would do all the round of the new RGT championship with Tuthill Porsche. Any other news about this?

It is possible, but everything is about budget...