Potential power

[Callumatic]

Hi, I'm curious to know what the potential HP for a top class WRC engine would be if it were unrestricted.


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[manthey]

rallycross cars are around 600hp..with 2.0l engine

[Mirek]

Hmm, there are many variables which affect the performance. Even without restrictor the engines of WRC still have rules for their creation which specify a lot of properties, materials, fuel, reliability etc. I think that the current 1.6 turbo engines could not go into sky-high power even without restrictor. There is relatively low turbo pressure and the maximum rpm are limited by used materials, con-rod length or steel valve springs. I'm not motoring engineer but 450 Hp is sure possible, maybe more.

Otherwise with completely free rules, free fuel and no reliability it is possible to go into completely crazy values. If I'm not mistaken in 1980' the qualification engines of F1 had up to 1400 Hp from 1.5 litres but the engines could last only two or three laps.

[noel157]

Hmm, there are many variables which affect the performance. Even without restrictor the engines of WRC still have rules for their creation which specify a lot of properties, materials, fuel, reliability etc. I think that the current 1.6 turbo engines could not go into sky-high power even without restrictor. There is relatively low turbo pressure and the maximum rpm are limited by used materials, con-rod length or steel valve springs. I'm not motoring engineer but 450 Hp is sure possible, maybe more.

Otherwise with completely free rules, free fuel and no reliability it is possible to go into completely crazy values. If I'm not mistaken in 1980' the qualification engines of F1 had up to 1400 Hp from 1.5 litres but the engines could last only two or three laps.

Yes, Renault used to bring a dozen or so engines for Arnoux, Jabouille and others in the early 80s to each GP. They were generating 1,500 BHP before going bang after a few laps. That was the start of the turbo era in F1.

[Lundefaret]

Yes, Renault used to bring a dozen or so engines for Arnoux, Jabouille and others in the early 80s to each GP. They were generating 1,500 BHP before going bang after a few laps. That was the start of the turbo era in F1.

I think the BMW-engine had the power record with 1400-1500 hp out of 1,5 litres in qualifying form, the engine aptly named "The Grenade."

Renault were pioneers, and the technical and mechanical challenges lead to other teams wondering about turbo really having a future in F1, much like 4wd in rallying.
The Renaults did not have 1500 hp from the start, but they outpreformed the Cosworth DFV´s (and the Ferrari V12s) wich was the objective.

How much power can You get out of a 1,6 litre turbo engine? 1600 hp+, and probably even a lot more. Its all up to what kind of budget, materials etc, and how long it has to last. And also packaging. Making a dyno-monster You could fill up a whole room with industrial size water cooled intercoolers, You could have more than four sylindres, one turbo for each sylindre, maybe a whole different motor configuration to maximize strength an cooling, maybe a star, or a square etc, but all very unpractical in a rally car;)

But running a usable engine to last a whole wrc event, 600 hp with no restrictor or rpm limit would be quite whitin grasp I think.

[stefanvv]

That's not enough. We need V6 bi-turbo on segment C cars. This will make a good fun

[janvanvurpa]

Very bad question. Silly actually. We may as well wrinkle our brows and look very serious and say "Exactly how far is up?" or "shall you be going to New York, or by bus?"

First unasked question is: exactly what fuel?
Then "do you mean the actual WRC 1600s in use?"

Or!!! a theoretical 1600 which could meet the rules except for turbocharger restrictor?

How about "the turbo other than restrictor must me the current rules?"

The current turbocharge rules say major diameter of the compressor cannot exceed 70mm...
That limits things..

The current engines are really biased towards being turbocharged engines and they want to make TORQUE to move that 1230 kg car.

They have small bores---and there's only so much room for 2 valves in a small bore...

and maximum power is pretty much linked to the total circumference of your intake valves ( I always said to mayself whn building engines that we think about total valve area, but my friends who build engines making roughly 10,000 hp corrected me...And circumference goes up faster as you increase valve diameter.

Maximum valve size is specificied I vaguely recall--as is maximum valve lift...

Regarding fuel: 98 RON pump gas? "FIA spec" fuel, or fuel which meets FIA extremely loose, generous "very easy to meet and huge room to make some crazy soup" rules?

See?
Poor question..