Whats going to Happen at Mercedes

[steveaki13]

Right first off In my Opinion it was a clumsy racing incident which Nico was largely responsible for.

However it seems Lauda blames Nico fully, Toto says the whole thing is unacceptable.

Hamilton says he is not bothered much about what happens to Nico, cause he lost points.

and Rosberg suggested in an interview on Sky he was alongside and the fans booing need to read the rulebook. Assuming he thinks Hamilton closed the door unfairly.

They have this meeting scheduled for about now.

What will Mercedes do about this situation? Will they try and enforce orders to secure more 1-2s rather than their recent cock ups as Red Bull are hunting them down.

Or is it a telling off and carry on?

Whats everyone think? :talk:

[driveace]

Well NO apology from Rosberg at all ,not even on the podium,when everybody and his dog could see it was with intent.
Is was absolutely ridiculous ! Talk about "Red Mist" ,Rosberg made a bad start ,|Hamilton gets away fairly ,and Vettel passes him too ,he was so MAD and boiling that he was going to be erratic !!!
He needs a severe reprimand which I feel he will get as Toto was speechless at first ,but then said it was stupid ,and Lauda had his mind made up ,so a German/Finnish driver ,and two German guys are not backing him !!! He needed booing,and is that thick ,he thinks the boos were unjustified ! So millions of people watching on TV all around the world know noithing about "Fair Racing" Nico your a tosser !!!

[Daniel]

Why bring nationality into it? Are you suggesting that people should be biased towards drivers from their country?

[The Black Knight]

I think it should be now even clearer to everyone after today that Rosberg is a cheat! He can't beat Hamilton fair and square on the track so he resorts to cheating! That was as blatant a move to take out your opponent as Jerez 97. Two saws at the wheel one to take him out! Then after he doesn't even have to good grace to take responsibility! What annoys me most is that he clearly should have received a penalty and received nothing! I really hope Hamilton wins this championship! I would hate to see a guy that had to cheat in irder to win he first WDC succeed. It just sends a message to all drivers that cheating is okay!

[driveace]

Why bring nationality into it? Are you suggesting that people should be biased towards drivers from their country?

What you talking about ? If your German then Natrually you support teams in the Bundersleuge ,you dont in great numbers support Dundee United do you ?
Are you telling me that ALL the Germans dont support Vettel and Rosberg ? Of course they do !
As a matter of interest WHO do you support Daniel ?

[steveaki13]

I think putting this into the Senna v Prost/ Hill v Schumi & Schumi v Villeneuve bracket is slightly crazy.

I honestly can't see that it was like that. It was silly and clumsy, but Lewis has done the same in the past. (a clumsy mistake I mean)

Plenty here bash Lewis and not Nico and plenty bash Nico and not Lewis.

Nico was at blame most today. It says more about his driving skill than him being a cheat. Just as Hamilton's mistakes over the years make him not at the level some of his fans make him out to be.
Neither Nico or Lewis are the best out and out drivers and they have both done stupid things this year.

Mercedes have given them the best chance to race each other, but they are ruining the teams run now. Maybe its time Merc take things into there own hands.

[Doc Austin]

I have not seen it yet, but it sounds like a silly accident.

Mercedes will do what they have done all season. They will sweep it under the rug and present a face of team unity and harmony. They will have talks and meetings and Lauda will proclaim everything to be "perfect."


Why bring nationality into it?

It's an international sport.

[Tazio]

Strong words from Da Boss:

Hamilton told reporters that the German, whose car's front wing clipped Hamilton's rear tyre in a failed attempt to overtake, had done it on purpose.
"We just had a meeting about it and he basically said he did it on purpose. He said he did it on purpose," repeated the Briton. "He said he could have avoided it. He said 'I did it to prove a point'.
"He basically said 'I did it to prove a point'. And you don't have to ju st rely on me, go and ask (Mercedes team bosses) Toto (Wolff) and Paddy (Lowe) who are not happy with him as well," said Hamilton.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/lewis-hamilton-says-nico-rosberg-hit-him-on-purpose/1282158

[steveaki13]

Trouble is realistically what can they do? If he admitted to doing it on purpose.

I mean they are not going to ban him for a race. So a b*****king it is. After which he still has a massive lead in the Championship

[The Black Knight]

Trouble is realistically what can they do? If he admitted to doing it on purpose.

I mean they are not going to ban him for a race. So a b*****king it is. After which he still has a massive lead in the Championship

There's no reason why they can't take post race action. I have my doubts though. It was clearly 100% deliberate and that was obvious from the start yet the stewards took no action. Like Jerez 97 action can be taken after the race. This is exactly the same thing so I honestly feel exclusion from the championship, as in 97, is in order.

I find this to be a very disgusting incident and F1 has to do something about this and make sure drivers can't get away with such behaviour.

[Somebody]

If Rosberg actually said "I meant it" or words to that effect, he's an utter, utter prat. Seriously, deep into "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" territory.

[Tazio]

wow, I guess Germans really are a bunch of cheats.... Just kidding :D

[Doc Austin]

From the outside view you can see they bang wheels, and then separate. Then, Rosberg moves to the right and back into Hamilton. At no point during the entire thing does Hamilton move toward Rosberg. This "accident" was all Rosberg's doing.

From Rosberg's in-car camera, you cannot see the wheels bang, but you can see that in the hit that took out Hamilton's tire, Rosberg aggressively turns into him.

I can't pretend to know what Rosberg was thinking, but the video suggests at best it was an utterly irresponsible and stupid accident on Rosberg's part because he didn't give his own teammate an inch in a race where they had out qualified the field by 2 seconds. At worst (which I don't want to believe), it was a deliberate take-out.

OK, now this is reaching the Prost/Senna level, and Mercedes really needs to get a grip on this before it gets to the Villeneuve/Pironi level. If Hamilton and Rosberg take each other out in the next race (And who could blame Lewis for initiating that?), suddenly Ricciardo is within striking distance, especially with the double points finale looming.

Mercedes muffed this championship from the beginning. They apparently have zero control over their drivers. They could not stop them from using the wrong engine maps to get an advantage, they couldn't get Hamilton to obey team orders in Hungary, and now they can't keep Rosberg from driving like a douche.

If nothing else, it's going to be fun to see what Lauda has to say.

[Doc Austin]

I think today also makes what happened in Monoco qualifying look a bit more suspect.

[Somebody]

I just... if Rosberg did it on purpose, I get that. It's unprincipled, ruthless, etc - but I can at least understand "why".

What I *can't* understand is why he would proceed to boast about this in front of Hamilton. Hell, if he'd done it in front of the Merc bosses alone, that would have been enough of a dilemma for them - whatever they did, and they might have felt the need to remove him from the car at least temporarily - they couldn't possibly let that leak out. But Lewis, he who learned at the feet of Alonso in 2007, was GUARANTEED to go running straight to the media. And in doing so, moves it from a team dilemma to an FIA dilemma.

And THAT puts the likes of Jerez 1997 square in the picture. Schumi was DQed from the entire year for that collision with Villeneuve. Even if they don't go quite that far, at the VERY least they're going to hit him with a two-race ban.

Was it worth that look on Hamilton's face Nico, really?

[N4D13]

I think everyone is conveniently ignoring the fact that Lewis has taken a single sentence out of context from what Rosberg said and has run to the press with it. We don't really know what Nico meant and we certainly don't have his whole declaration to compare with. So while it was an extremely unfortunate thing to say, I'm not buying that Rosberg actually wanted to crash into Lewis or whatever.

I get the feeling that some people are just trying to create a storm in a teapot, especially since if there is anyone who should not be regarded as objective in this matter, that is Lewis. I'd really rather we heard a bit more of this instead of passing judgement so early.

[steveaki13]

I agree N4D13

We need Mercedes to confirm it. If it is found to be true, then in all fairness you can't want anything but Rosberg punished

Anyway. We all need to wait to see

[Somebody]

https://twitter.com/JennieGow/status/503582975511248896

[Tazio]

I don't have a particular favorite in this WDC. It is my understanding that Nico said something to the effect of; he wanted to teach Lewis a lesson by being ultra aggressive in his defense, and that in itself (if it caused the accident) is bad news, and deserves some sort of penalty.

[Mia 01]

A normal race incident in the heat the first few laps normaly create, happens in many races.

[Doc Austin]

If it is true that Rosberg said he did it on purpose, I would say the FIA needs to take his points from this race. That way he gains no advantage from it. That would be the minimum, but any more than that, like say making him sit out the next race, would affect the championship too much.

I liked Nico and did not want to believe he did this on purpose, but the more information that gets out, the more it looks like this is exactly what happened. As hard as he turned the wheel back to the right while he was still beside Hamilton, where else did he think was the car going to go? This is the world championship leader we are talking about. He could not have possibly misjudged it that badly.

Couple with what happened at Monoco, I would have a hard time seeing Rosberg as a worthy champion.

[steveaki13]

A normal race incident in the heat the first few laps normaly create, happens in many races.

I thought exactly the same Mia, but you can't ignore what Mercedes have confirmed this evening

[donKey jote]

Ham spouting off to the press on internal team matters to rally the forces against evil teammates... Rings a bell somehow :p :andrea: :sailor:
shut up and sort it out on the track!

[steveaki13]

Wouldn't blame Hamilton to be honest, if your team mate is dumb enough to admit to taking you out, then you need to try and get him punished.

Sad its got to this really.

[Bagwan]

Nico got forced off by Hamilton in the last race .
He said before this race that he had learned a lot .

I believe what Nico meant by his words was that he would not be intimidated into backing out when he was beside his team mate .

That's well different to saying he would crash him out deliberately .

Lewis expected him to back out .
He didn't .

I hope Lewis learned something in this race , just like Nico did in the last one .

[Mia 01]

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/115558


"Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point, and for Lewis, it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico," said Wolff.

"[Rosberg] didn't give in. He thought it was for Lewis to leave him space, and that Lewis didn't leave him space.

"So they agreed to disagree in a very heated discussion amongst ourselves, but it wasn't deliberately crashing. That is nonsense."



A racing incident, Totos words

[Doc Austin]

Now it's all a big misunderstanding.

F1: Wolff says Hamilton misinterpreted Rosberg : http://racer.com/f1/item/107825-wolff-rosberg-was-misinterpreted

We will probably never know the exact truth of what was actually said. Everyone is going to spin it differently.

For me that second crank of the wheel towards Hamilton told the story. How can the team look at that and then still believe Nico was just simply not giving way?

[The Black Knight]

Now it's all a big misunderstanding.

F1: Wolff says Hamilton misinterpreted Rosberg : http://racer.com/f1/item/107825-wolff-rosberg-was-misinterpreted

We will probably never know the exact truth of what was actually said. Everyone is going to spin it differently.

For me that second crank of the wheel towards Hamilton told the story. How can the team look at that and then still believe Nico was just simply not giving way?

Expect this from Wolff as he does not want his driver banned but yes it's the second crank - no different to Jerez 97 - it told the full story! I just hope the FIA get involved and ban him!

One thing for sure, Hamilton is coming out of this looking squeaky clean! He really learned from 2007.

[steveaki13]

Whatever went on innocent or guilty, the FIA will not ban him. IMO

[The Black Knight]

Whatever went on innocent or guilty, the FIA will not ban him. IMO

Unfortunately they probably don't have the balls but for consistency they should!

[N4D13]

TJ13 have a very interesting article on the subject: http://thejudge13.com/2014/08/24/f1-features-the-deflation-of-puncture-gate/

I'd single out this bit: "TJ13 is aware the Stewards looked into the incident during today’s race, quickly concluding no further action was required. For their part, they felt that Hamilton had not fully complied with the rules, leaving it nigh on impossible to hand a punishment to Rosberg for causing a collision."

Their point is basically that, according to the rules, Hamilton should have given Rosberg room. He didn't and Rosberg didn't yield either, therefore causing the collision. Now, I agree with pretty much everyone in here: Rosberg was the main responsible for the accident. Lewis should have given him more space, he didn't, and the result is that they crashed. It's the same brand of aggressive racing we have seen in the previous races and the "win" went to Rosberg the same way that it could have been the German earning a DNF and Hamilton winning the race.

[The Black Knight]

TJ13 have a very interesting article on the subject: http://thejudge13.com/2014/08/24/f1-features-the-deflation-of-puncture-gate/

I'd single out this bit: "TJ13 is aware the Stewards looked into the incident during today’s race, quickly concluding no further action was required. For their part, they felt that Hamilton had not fully complied with the rules, leaving it nigh on impossible to hand a punishment to Rosberg for causing a collision."

Their point is basically that, according to the rules, Hamilton should have given Rosberg room. He didn't and Rosberg didn't yield either, therefore causing the collision. Now, I agree with pretty much everyone in here: Rosberg was the main responsible for the accident. Lewis should have given him more space, he didn't, and the result is that they crashed. It's the same brand of aggressive racing we have seen in the previous races and the "win" went to Rosberg the same way that it could have been the German earning a DNF and Hamilton winning the race.

If that's the case then it's another example of the Stewart's making ridiculous rulings! Hamilton could not have given Rosberg any further room and he was always ahead of Rosberg. Never once did Nico have a chance of passing him! The second chop of the steering wheel from on board Rosberg's car is all you need to look at to see what really happened here. It's extremely clear. Many drivers went through that corner today in the same position and chose to save their car. Look at Vettel on the first lap. You har to be smart. It was Rosberg's fault - 100%. I have to say this incident has enraged me more than any other in recent years. What is really infuriating is that Nico has cheated twice this year and gotten away with it because of dozey Stewart's on both occasions and that will probably be what wins him the championship. If that happens I honestly will be disgusted with F1.

[N4D13]

You're probably right. But the thing here is that, according to the regulations, Lewis should have left more room and failed to do so. Rosberg was not required to yield and so he chose not to do so, unlike in other cases (hence his 'on purpose' bit). So even if the collision had been intentional, which I'm not sure anyone could say with certainty, the stewards' hands would be tied.

Besides, as I said before, I think we're lambasting Rosberg rather unfairly. That kind of accident can go many ways, and in the same way that it ended up with Lewis outside of the points, both of them could have spun or maybe it would have been Rosberg ending up with a front wing lodged below his front wheels and crashing out. I honestly think it's ridiculous to claim that Rosberg had any intention of taking Hamilton out, as has been implied by some, since the result might just have been the opposite.

[Rollo]

If that's the case then it's another example of the Stewart's making ridiculous rulings! Hamilton could not have given Rosberg any further room and he was always ahead of Rosberg.

If this was a claim for motor insurance, this is Rosberg's fault. The car behind always assumes the fault for any nose-to-tail accident.

Hamilton's response though, should be to race harder and better. He hasn't done that; that in my opinion proves why he won't win this years' WDC. He has a choice to either whinge or work harder; he's choosing to whinge.

[Ranger]

If Lewis' tyre wasn't punctured then no one would be talking about this.

I think Rosberg was trying to add pressure to Lewis by forcing him to change his line on the exit of Les Combes and they met in the middle. It was still very much Nico's fault and he was very lucky he didn't do more damage to his front wing.

It was very unwise with 42 laps left of the race and 7 races left in the season that they can still fail to win.

[anfield5]

Nico's fault he was chasing and should have stayed clear, but a bit of a storm in a teacup really. As Nico basically said, he wasn't backing off and shit happens. Tell them both to settle down and go and race. It is not the first time two cars ahve touched during a race and it wont be the last

[airshifter]

I thought it was nothing more than a racing incident. Nico squeezed Lewis hard on corner entry, and made it clear that the cars were overlapping. Lewis didn't back out at all and took the usual line, but didn't fully clear Nico. Having watched the onboard a number of times it looked to me like the erratic move by Rosberg was to get back on line enough to keep from going off, and he probably thought Lewis had cleared the front of his car.

Nico did IMO cause the incident, as it was a done deal that Lewis would retain the lead at that corner. But I don't think it was intentional.

[zako85]

I think today also makes what happened in Monoco qualifying look a bit more suspect.

To even suggest that today's incident was intentional is even more bonkers than the conspiracy theory that Rosberg's Monaco qualifying crash was intentional.

[zako85]

If that's the case then it's another example of the Stewart's making ridiculous rulings! Hamilton could not have given Rosberg any further room and he was always ahead of Rosberg. Never once did Nico have a chance of passing him! The second chop of the steering wheel from on board Rosberg's car is all you need to look at to see what really happened here. It's extremely clear.

Sorry, but malicious intent is not clear at all. The second steering wheel correction was necessary because otherwise Rosberg's car would have ended off the track. He braked and corrected his direction and his maneuver could have worked without an accident, as we see happen in almost every race in similar situations. If Rosberg's car was literally a couple of inches behind, this incident wouldn't have happened. Anyways, this type of collision is extremely common, and we have seen even more experienced drivers commit this type of error (was it Vettel or Button making the same error two years ago?). Most of the time, it's the car that's behind that suffers the most in this type of accident as it has to get back into the pits to change the broken wing.

The way I see it, Rosberg made an overly aggressive move and made a mistake. He suffered from it just as well as he had to go back into the pits to change his wing. Hamilton was a victim, but Hamilton also had some real bad luck because of the tire puncture as tire frequently does not get punctured in this type of accident.

In the end, it's bonkers to suggest that the accident was intentional as we could have seen the outcome being completely the opposite (e.g. if Rosberg's wing detached and broke his suspension or wheels). What we saw was a racing incident, Rosberg's mistake, Hamilton's bad luck, but Rosberg was luckier. Rosberg's error might or might not have justified a penalty. I'll leave that to the experts to debate. If Rosberg should have been punished for this, then everyone else who caused the same type of collision in the past should have been punished too.

[Nem14]

sorry, but malicious intent is not clear at all. The second steering wheel correction was necessary because otherwise rosberg's car would have ended off the track. He braked and corrected his direction and his maneuver could have worked without an accident, as we see happen in almost every race in similar situations. If rosberg's car was literally a couple of inches behind, this incident wouldn't have happened. Anyways, this type of collision is extremely common, and we have seen even more experienced drivers commit this type of error (was it vettel or button making the same error two years ago?). Most of the time, it's the car that's behind that suffers the most in this type of accident as it has to get back into the pits to change the broken wing.

The way i see it, rosberg made an overly aggressive move and made a mistake. He suffered from it just as well as he had to go back into the pits to change his wing. Hamilton was a victim, but hamilton also had some real bad luck because of the tire puncture as tire frequently does not get punctured in this type of accident.

In the end, it's bonkers to suggest that the accident was intentional as we could have seen the outcome being completely the opposite (e.g. If rosberg's wing detached and broke his suspension or wheels). What we saw was a racing incident, rosberg's mistake, hamilton's bad luck, but rosberg was luckier. Rosberg's error might or might not have justified a penalty. I'll leave that to the experts to debate. If rosberg should have been punished for this, then everyone else who caused the same type of collision in the past should have been punished too.

qft.

[Big Ben]

Give Hamilton a strong team-mate and the scandal is guaranteed. It can't always be the other one at fault.

[The Black Knight]

Sorry, but malicious intent is not clear at all. The second steering wheel correction was necessary because otherwise Rosberg's car would have ended off the track. He braked and corrected his direction and his maneuver could have worked without an accident, as we see happen in almost every race in similar situations. If Rosberg's car was literally a couple of inches behind, this incident wouldn't have happened. Anyways, this type of collision is extremely common, and we have seen even more experienced drivers commit this type of error (was it Vettel or Button making the same error two years ago?). Most of the time, it's the car that's behind that suffers the most in this type of accident as it has to get back into the pits to change the broken wing.

The way I see it, Rosberg made an overly aggressive move and made a mistake. He suffered from it just as well as he had to go back into the pits to change his wing. Hamilton was a victim, but Hamilton also had some real bad luck because of the tire puncture as tire frequently does not get punctured in this type of accident.

In the end, it's bonkers to suggest that the accident was intentional as we could have seen the outcome being completely the opposite (e.g. if Rosberg's wing detached and broke his suspension or wheels). What we saw was a racing incident, Rosberg's mistake, Hamilton's bad luck, but Rosberg was luckier. Rosberg's error might or might not have justified a penalty. I'll leave that to the experts to debate. If Rosberg should have been punished for this, then everyone else who caused the same type of collision in the past should have been punished too.

Malicious intent was very clear. You go back one lap earlier where Vettel was in a similar situation and he had the smarts to go wide across the kerb. Rosberg could have done the same and carried on to fight another lap with Hamilton. He didn't and he knew exactly what he was doing. You're underestimating these drivers and exactly how good they are if you think they can't judge things like this to within the inch. Rosberg is one of the best drivers in the world and he knew full well that his wing was going to be damaged when he hit Hamilton's wheel, but he also knew that, no matter what happened, he probably wasn't going to come off as bad as Hamilton with a punctured tire. Yes, there was a minor chance that he could have come out the worse but that was very unlikely given the angle he was slicing the wheel at.

It's clear to me now that Rosberg is a dirty rotten cheat. The Monaco incident was clear enough but this one makes it 100% clearer again. The FIA must act on this and so must his team. This kind of behavior is bad for the sport. Not alone that, but Rosberg has now sent out a message that he intends to use his car as a weapon for the remaining 7 races. It could result in someone getting killed or worse so he must be sanctioned. With 8 races to go there was no need for this to be done. He's made it clear that he knows in a straight fight he can't beat Hamilton on pace so he is going to resort to dirty tricks. Lets face it, he hasn't actually beaten Hamilton all year really except for Austria where Hamilton beat himself by messing up in qualifying. He may have beaten him in Silverstone but given Hamilton's pace at the time Rosberg retired it's difficult to see Rosberg having kept him behind.

Anyway, all that aside, action needs to be taken here or it brings the sport into disrepute. And lets face it, F1 is dying as a sport as it is. Television viewing figures are down, half the stalls are empty when you go to races. I normally go to 7 or 8 races a year myself and I haven't bothered this year because seeing Vettel win 9 races in a row just killed my love for the sport somewhat. At least he's getting shown up this year. Action needs to be taken by the FIA now on this.

[steveaki13]

Give Hamilton a strong team-mate and the scandal is guaranteed. It can't always be the other one at fault.

I agree that Hamilton can't deal with fast team mates well, but in this one off incident I struggle to blame Hamilton for anything really.

[donKey jote]

I don't think Ben is getting at this (racing ;) :p) incident in particular but at the whole intra-team two-faced whinging.
... From both of them in my view :)

[steveaki13]

True. Both are ruining Mercedes chances to have won every race. This is when a team that runs team orders would probably have more constructed success.

The fans call for out and out racing which is fun, but you then have to take this sort of thing on the chin.

[zako85]

I agree that Hamilton can't deal with fast team mates well, but in this one off incident I struggle to blame Hamilton for anything really.

With the exception of British GP qualifying, Hamilton hasn't made any mistakes on track. Hamilton is damn fast. I give him that. But does often speak things he shouldn't have spoken. For example, Hamilton claims that Rosberg deliberately hit him. Based on Toto Wolff's terse comment, it appears not to be true. Rosberg is also guilty of this. He should have at least acknowledged his error.

[The Black Knight]

I agree that Hamilton can't deal with fast team mates well, but in this one off incident I struggle to blame Hamilton for anything really.

Really? I'd say more they can't deal with him. Thus they have to resort to unsavory tactics in order to beat him, just like Nico has done and Fernando did in 2007.

[zako85]

Malicious intent was very clear. You go back one lap earlier where Vettel was in a similar situation and he had the smarts to go wide across the kerb. Rosberg could have done the same and carried on to fight another lap with Hamilton.


That's a flawed argument. Even though Vettel went off track in the same place, Vettel went off track for completely different reason. Vettel carried too much speed in the straight and then braked too late. I saw smoke coming from his rear wheels. He was basically out of control. If he did turn, he wouldn't be anywhere near to damage the car in front because Vettel was something like a car length behind. The NBC commentators mentioned outbraking his car as well, when they saw it. Turning car would have probably spun it at that point. Rosberg's incident with Hamilton a lap later was a completely different scenario. Rosberg was following Hamilton closely and was in control of his car. Once we have established the fact that Vettel's off track excursion was completely different problem, what we end up with is that a Rosberg-Hamilton incident is one of too many of this type we have seen in open wheels. It was Rosberg's error, and he deserves to be spanked, but I don't see a clear intent. How can it be a clear intent if Rosberg was just as likely to damage his own car and end the race right there?



Anyway, all that aside, action needs to be taken here or it brings the sport into disrepute. And lets face it, F1 is dying as a sport as it is. Television viewing figures are down, half the stalls are empty when you go to races. I normally go to 7 or 8 races a year myself and I haven't bothered this year because seeing Vettel win 9 races in a row just killed my love for the sport somewhat. At least he's getting shown up this year. Action needs to be taken by the FIA now on this.

Some fluctuation in TV viewership figures have always existed. A drop in TV viewership does not mean much IMO. If it means F1 is dying, then it must have started at least 20 years ago. In 1994 journalists were saying that refueling was added that year presumably because of boring 1992 and 1993 seasons. Vettel did to F1 what Schumacher did in 2000-2005. F1 has always had years of utter domination followed by years of intense competition.

And 2013 was an odd and atypical year when no one besides Red Bull wanted to continue developing a car platform that will be scrapped in a few months. Ferrari was out of game after August, and so were all other teams who could possibly take on Vettel. So a drop in TV viewership was more than expected IMO. If anything, this year will boost F1 popularity. We have all the ingredients. Intense competition for the title fight, drama, and now a "scandal". However, the biggest surprise of this year is the new talents who took F1 by storm: Ricciardo, Bottas, Kyat, Bianchi, etc.

That "F1 is irrelevant, spec, or dying due to bad engine sound, etc" has become some kind of a meme on web sites dedicated to general automotive discussions, usually posted by people who clearly have not followed the current season.

[steveaki13]

Really? I'd say more they can't deal with him. Thus they have to resort to unsavory tactics in order to beat him, just like Nico has done and Fernando did in 2007.

True. My above statement doesn't reflect what I was thinking really.

I should have said he doesn't deal with pressure that well

2007, 2008 and this season (probably some in between I have forgotten) he seems to feel the pressure and for whatever reason he seems to make mistakes or be involved in incidents.

I think his talent deserves another title or maybe two, but I can honestly see him not winning another. I mean however its happened Lewis is falling out a championship hunt that I certainly thought he would dominate.

It seems to me he just feels pressure easily and has a tendency to make errors and get involved in on track and off track trouble.

For the record I hope he finds a way of storm the season end and taking this title.

[The Black Knight]

True. My above statement doesn't reflect what I was thinking really.

I should have said he doesn't deal with pressure that well

2007, 2008 and this season (probably some in between I have forgotten) he seems to feel the pressure and for whatever reason he seems to make mistakes or be involved in incidents.

I think his talent deserves another title or maybe two, but I can honestly see him not winning another. I mean however its happened Lewis is falling out a championship hunt that I certainly thought he would dominate.

It seems to me he just feels pressure easily and has a tendency to make errors and get involved in on track and off track trouble.

For the record I hope he finds a way of storm the season end and taking this title.

Well, he honestly always seems to be on the side of bad luck or a cheating teammate. Hopefully his luck will change over the remaining 7 races. I think this year Lewis has made two mistakes, Silverstone qualifying which was 100% his own fault and Austria which was 100% his own fault. It might seem like he was feeling the pressure on Saturday with him running wide in different corners but that was caused by glazing on his brakes rather than errors he made himself so what seems to be a running wide might not always be that straight forward.

[steveaki13]

I am with you in that 100%

I too really hope he wins this title

[The Black Knight]

And one final note, I'm okay with someone that has made two mistakes winning the championship. I'm not okay with someone who cheated twice and got away with it to his benefit winning the championship. I genuinely didn't mind who won the WDC this year at the start of the season because I really liked Nico and I really liked Lewis. From Monaco onwards I have been in Lewis's camp though and, to be honest, if it were Lewis that had cheated I'd be really disappointed in him as it's his integrity which endears me to support him now. After what we saw yesterday, I'm pretty confident that were it not for Lewis having difficulties in qualifying over the last number of races which put him on the back foot that we would have seen a lot more of this sort of thuggery from Nico.

[airshifter]

Malicious intent was very clear. You go back one lap earlier where Vettel was in a similar situation and he had the smarts to go wide across the kerb. Rosberg could have done the same and carried on to fight another lap with Hamilton. He didn't and he knew exactly what he was doing. You're underestimating these drivers and exactly how good they are if you think they can't judge things like this to within the inch. Rosberg is one of the best drivers in the world and he knew full well that his wing was going to be damaged when he hit Hamilton's wheel, but he also knew that, no matter what happened, he probably wasn't going to come off as bad as Hamilton with a punctured tire. Yes, there was a minor chance that he could have come out the worse but that was very unlikely given the angle he was slicing the wheel at.

It's clear to me now that Rosberg is a dirty rotten cheat. The Monaco incident was clear enough but this one makes it 100% clearer again. The FIA must act on this and so must his team. This kind of behavior is bad for the sport. Not alone that, but Rosberg has now sent out a message that he intends to use his car as a weapon for the remaining 7 races. It could result in someone getting killed or worse so he must be sanctioned. With 8 races to go there was no need for this to be done. He's made it clear that he knows in a straight fight he can't beat Hamilton on pace so he is going to resort to dirty tricks. Lets face it, he hasn't actually beaten Hamilton all year really except for Austria where Hamilton beat himself by messing up in qualifying. He may have beaten him in Silverstone but given Hamilton's pace at the time Rosberg retired it's difficult to see Rosberg having kept him behind.

Anyway, all that aside, action needs to be taken here or it brings the sport into disrepute. And lets face it, F1 is dying as a sport as it is. Television viewing figures are down, half the stalls are empty when you go to races. I normally go to 7 or 8 races a year myself and I haven't bothered this year because seeing Vettel win 9 races in a row just killed my love for the sport somewhat. At least he's getting shown up this year. Action needs to be taken by the FIA now on this.


TBH it's posts like this and fans accusing the FIA of bias that brings the sport into disrepute much more than the incident does. Because when you are anyone else takes the point of view that you KNOW Nico intentionally caused the accident, you are overstepping the bounds of reality. You cannot know what Nico's intentions were any more than I can know your thoughts.

But in this and other posts you attach that suspicion as fact, and it just fuels the fire. Then you further embellish your opinion to the point you claim Nico is going to use the car as a weapon and might kill someone. That is no more fair than me claiming that since you are upset you are a danger to people in your work place or home, since IMO (opinion not stated as fact) you are more emotional than the situation warrants, which could results in erratic actions.


Read your post and reverse the situation. If I stated that strongly that Lewis caused the accident on purpose and tried to kill Nico, would you find it a reasonable thing to state?



I think Nico was the primary cause of the accident, and probably could have avoided it. But I think it was just that, and accident when racing hard. And I've said from the season start I think Lewis is the better driver on track, and would overcome the early points deficit. But at this point letting Nico get in his head is the worst thing he can do. And for any Hamilton fan to give up and join his battle of words, I feel they are making the same mistake Lewis is.

[The Black Knight]

TBH it's posts like this and fans accusing the FIA of bias that brings the sport into disrepute much more than the incident does. Because when you are anyone else takes the point of view that you KNOW Nico intentionally caused the accident, you are overstepping the bounds of reality. You cannot know what Nico's intentions were any more than I can know your thoughts.

But in this and other posts you attach that suspicion as fact, and it just fuels the fire. Then you further embellish your opinion to the point you claim Nico is going to use the car as a weapon and might kill someone. That is no more fair than me claiming that since you are upset you are a danger to people in your work place or home, since IMO (opinion not stated as fact) you are more emotional than the situation warrants, which could results in erratic actions.


Read your post and reverse the situation. If I stated that strongly that Lewis caused the accident on purpose and tried to kill Nico, would you find it a reasonable thing to state?



I think Nico was the primary cause of the accident, and probably could have avoided it. But I think it was just that, and accident when racing hard. And I've said from the season start I think Lewis is the better driver on track, and would overcome the early points deficit. But at this point letting Nico get in his head is the worst thing he can do. And for any Hamilton fan to give up and join his battle of words, I feel they are making the same mistake Lewis is.

Actually I never stated that Nico tried to kill Lewis, nor did I ever think it. You just fueled that fire yourself. But on that note, no, I don't believe he was trying to kill Lewis.

And I never said that the FIA are biased either, I'm just saying that they lack the balls to do anything, the same way that Davidson didn't have the balls to come out and say that he felt Nico did it on purpose.

If you really feel this way, then you must feel that Schumacher was innocent in Jerez 97? There is no proof that he swerved into hit JV intentionally, you can't possibly know what he was thinking at the time, you're just looking at on-board footage. Rosberg swerved into Hamilton, much the same way Schumacher swerved into JV. If you believe one to be innocent, surely you believe the other to be as well?

[donKey jote]

caused by glazing on his brakes rather than errors he made himself
Wouldn't be too surprised if it wasn't that evil German cheat who went and glazed our Ham's brakes the night before in order to pip him to pole on Saturday! :devil: :andrea:

[airshifter]

Actually I never stated that Nico tried to kill Lewis, nor did I ever think it. You just fueled that fire yourself. But on that note, no, I don't believe he was trying to kill Lewis.

Nor did I claim you said Nico tried to kill Lewis. I simply stated that your comment about Nico intending to use his car as a weapon was out of line. And to clarify my reason for stating that, refer to your own post:




Not alone that, but Rosberg has now sent out a message that he intends to use his car as a weapon for the remaining 7 races. It could result in someone getting killed or worse so he must be sanctioned.

There is little if any grey area in the above. You are accusing a driver (for those that have forgotten another human being) of malicious intent. Understanding that there is bad blood between the drivers, we know there is tension there. But really that above statement would be like me claiming that I know you will intentionally beat your ex girlfriend because I can give an example of a time you were angry with her. It's a malicious statement claiming to understand the intent of a person when in fact we can't know the intent of that person.

For the record, if Nico had in fact admitted to causing or allowing the collision, it would completely change my point of view. But I'm not going to condemn him based on a maybe, or any speculation.





And I never said that the FIA are biased either, I'm just saying that they lack the balls to do anything, the same way that Davidson didn't have the balls to come out and say that he felt Nico did it on purpose.

If you really feel this way, then you must feel that Schumacher was innocent in Jerez 97? There is no proof that he swerved into hit JV intentionally, you can't possibly know what he was thinking at the time, you're just looking at on-board footage. Rosberg swerved into Hamilton, much the same way Schumacher swerved into JV. If you believe one to be innocent, surely you believe the other to be as well?

Did the FIA lack balls in handing out penalties for the Spygate scandal, or Flavio's race fixing? They certainly didn't lack balls after the Jerez incident either. Like many I often don't agree with the FIA decisions, but in black and white cases supported by evidence hard to dispute they do act, and often hand out very harsh penalties. Personally in the case of Jerez I think it was intentional, but feel absolute evidence was lacking in proving that without any doubt.


But as an example, do you think Alonso should be harshly treated by the FIA for running into the back of Vettel at Spa? He tried to put his car where it wouldn't fit, and impacted Vettel from behind with his wing running into Vettels tire. Yet I've seen no claims that he has shown he will use his car as a weapon and could kill someone. I wonder why that is?

[The Black Knight]

Nor did I claim you said Nico tried to kill Lewis. I simply stated that your comment about Nico intending to use his car as a weapon was out of line. And to clarify my reason for stating that, refer to your own post:

Read your post and reverse the situation. If I stated that strongly that Lewis caused the accident on purpose and tried to kill Nico, would you find it a reasonable thing to state?

Read your own post please before asking me to reread mine. If you're going to make a statement like the above after asking me to reverse the situation and not expect me, or anyone, to take from it that you are suggesting that I implied Nico tried to kill Hamilton then you need to be more careful in your phrasing. Quite frankly, I'm not sure what the point of the above statement was now. Feel free to clarify.


There is little if any grey area in the above. You are accusing a driver (for those that have forgotten another human being) of malicious intent. Understanding that there is bad blood between the drivers, we know there is tension there. But really that above statement would be like me claiming that I know you will intentionally beat your ex girlfriend because I can give an example of a time you were angry with her. It's a malicious statement claiming to understand the intent of a person when in fact we can't know the intent of that person.

For the record, if Nico had in fact admitted to causing or allowing the collision, it would completely change my point of view. But I'm not going to condemn him based on a maybe, or any speculation.

He's a human being that already cheated in Monaco and, yes, I am accusing him of malicious intent. As for the beating of the ex girlfriends remark, I can't ever possibly think of a situation where someone beats another human being without intent. It's simply not in the same context. We're discussing something that a driver did to another driver. The question is whether there was intent. The answer is yes, there was, and that was clearly obvious from the moment it happened. Give me a logical explanation for the second turn of the wheel. Don't give me a "He couldn't have known he would hit Hamilton's tire" excuse. Rosberg is one of the best drivers in the world and knows exactly where his front wing is. Give me a proper explanation for turning in the second time please.


Did the FIA lack balls in handing out penalties for the Spygate scandal, or Flavio's race fixing? They certainly didn't lack balls after the Jerez incident either. Like many I often don't agree with the FIA decisions, but in black and white cases supported by evidence hard to dispute they do act, and often hand out very harsh penalties. Personally in the case of Jerez I think it was intentional, but feel absolute evidence was lacking in proving that without any doubt.


But as an example, do you think Alonso should be harshly treated by the FIA for running into the back of Vettel at Spa? He tried to put his car where it wouldn't fit, and impacted Vettel from behind with his wing running into Vettels tire. Yet I've seen no claims that he has shown he will use his car as a weapon and could kill someone. I wonder why that is?

I'll tell ya what, if the FIA turn around and punish Rosberg I'll retract my statement that they lack balls. There have been many situations throughout the years, Monaco this year with Rosberg being one of them, where they have turned a blind eye. If they take action on this, then I'll retract my statement.

As for the Alonso incident, I don't believe he intentionally hit Vettel. Why would he? Unlike Nico, he had nothing to gain. It was a rare mistake from the most complete driver on the grid. We've already seen that Nico is predisposed to cheating this year and he gained 18 points in the championship lead because of what happened. He had plenty to gain from Lewis's exit. Plus once Alonso committed there was noway out for him. Nico always had a way out.

[Big Ben]

I think zako85's explanation for the second turn was good enough.

I've seen footage of the incident and it looks just like that.. like a racing incident.

However, the way Hamilton heard what he wanted to hear from whatever Rosberg told him and ran with it to media... I find that pathetic.

[henners88]

However, the way Hamilton heard what he wanted to hear from whatever Rosberg told him and ran with it to media... I find that pathetic.

I think many of us would like to see the transcript from that conversation as different versions or interpretations are being published by the media. I couldn't comment with any certainty or condemn a driver or team member for their statements because I haven't heard reliably what was said.

Would you mind sharing the transcript to allow us to discuss this a little more fairly?

[Big Ben]

Anything else? maybe some tea and cookies?

[henners88]

I'd rather keep it on topic.

[longisland]

I said it in another thread & repeat here. It may be 85 again. it's never senna vs Prost. They won 15 out of 16 races until Suzuka. Daniel has won 3 so don't be surprised if he does a Prost over Mansell & Piquet to Lewis & Nico. Lewis, like Mansell, has more natural speed & a crowd pleaser with his spectacular wins but often hampered by inconsistency. Rosberg, on the other hand, is scoring points regularly albeit lacking a stellar drive.
Most people applauded Lewis for making a Champions decision in defying team order in Hungary. I supposed this is a champions reply from Rosberg, albeit clumsy.

[Bagwan]

By the way , Michael did admit that he turned in on Jacques , framing it with "Deliberate , but instinctual ."
This has nothing in common with that .

Lewis assumed Nico would back out of it , and assumed he had the corner , and took his normal racing line .
Based on the last race , where he squeezed Nico , and Nico relented , it was a reasonable assumption .

But , had he heard Nico say that he had learned a lot from the last race , where his team mate had felt aggrieved at his dismissal of team orders , and he had forced his team mate off , he might have known Nico was going to stiffen his defence and push his own agenda .

Lewis , in one interview I read , dismissed Nico's feelings completely , saying they had had a meeting before the race where he couldn't believe Nico was still upset about that last race before the break .
Nico felt betrayed by his team when there was no sanction , and , in fact , out right backing of the betrayal .

This buoyed Lewis , despite his team's insistence that he was destroying his tires , that he was right in his decision .


Merc is responsible for letting this go too far .
But , it's very entertaining to watch .

I hope Lewis understands the point that Nico was making here .

He's going to be there , so don't just assume he's backed out of it .
They've had some really good wheel to wheel in the past , and we may be in for a lot more if they can just put the politics aside .

The stewards had them both responsible , and I think that at the end of the day , that's really the best conclusion .

They need to sort it out on track , and bring both cars home .

[steveaki13]

By the way , Michael did admit that he turned in on Jacques , framing it with "Deliberate , but instinctual ."
This has nothing in common with that .

Lewis assumed Nico would back out of it , and assumed he had the corner , and took his normal racing line .
Based on the last race , where he squeezed Nico , and Nico relented , it was a reasonable assumption .

But , had he heard Nico say that he had learned a lot from the last race , where his team mate had felt aggrieved at his dismissal of team orders , and he had forced his team mate off , he might have known Nico was going to stiffen his defence and push his own agenda .

Lewis , in one interview I read , dismissed Nico's feelings completely , saying they had had a meeting before the race where he couldn't believe Nico was still upset about that last race before the break .
Nico felt betrayed by his team when there was no sanction , and , in fact , out right backing of the betrayal .

This buoyed Lewis , despite his team's insistence that he was destroying his tires , that he was right in his decision .


Merc is responsible for letting this go too far .
But , it's very entertaining to watch .

I hope Lewis understands the point that Nico was making here .

He's going to be there , so don't just assume he's backed out of it .
They've had some really good wheel to wheel in the past , and we may be in for a lot more if they can just put the politics aside .

The stewards had them both responsible , and I think that at the end of the day , that's really the best conclusion .

They need to sort it out on track , and bring both cars home .

A lot of sense as usual Bagwan

[longisland]

People tend to have a short memory. Fans & commentators lauded Lewis when he fended off Rosberg with obvious aggressive moves in Bahrain. Nobody seemed to bother Nico showing his dissatisfaction in the post race interview. Lewis was that much better even Nico is on fresh tires. It may have ended in tears had Nico not lifted. Then there was the call in Sepang in 2013. Lauda's right. It's not appropriate to make such a risky move early in the race; however, it's about time Nico decides what's best for himself with 7 race left.

[Mia 01]

I have rewatched the incident, Lewis knewed quite well that Nico was on the outside and had superior speed hence he let his car drift out and nearly forced Nico off track. Nico saw this and backed down but to late. Lewis on the radio: Ohhh he hit me, he hit me me me.

A racing incident but I´m not so sure the fault was Nicos.

[Doc Austin]

A lot of people simply hate Lewis or hate Nico and that influences their view. I like both of the Mercedes drivers and hated to see this whole thing happen at all. As such, I think I can look at the video and have an unbiased view. I also have a little experience in a race car, not that it matters, but I understand how some of this stuff works.

I was a big fan of Keke and really wanted to see his son succeed. Some of you might remember (or not) that I was willing to give Nico the benefit of the doubt after Monoco, and I did not want to believe what I was seeing yesterday.

Why would you crank the steering wheel toward your teammate unless that's where you wanted to car to go?

No matter how you look at it, there is no getting away from the fact that Nico cranked the wheel over hard toward Lewis, when all he had to do was crank left and go around the next corner, or at least over the curb and avoid a collision. While this doesn't prove Nico hit Hammy on purpose, there is no doubt Nico did absolutely nothing to avoid the collision.

Backing up a bit, Nico has gone off the track a few times (aside from Monoco) in qualifying this year. Once was Hungary, and there was another incident where I can't remember the track. In both instances, there was none of the weird back and worth sawing of the steering wheel like there was when Nico went off at Monoco. It looked weird at the time, but now that I have less faith in Nico's sporting ethic, I think he drove down the escape road on purpose and the flailing of the steering wheel was just theatrics to sell the notion he had made a mistake instead of a cold, calculated cheat. He wanted the car to look out of control.

Maybe the most telling sign is that the team was so visibly upset with Nico. They can't exactly come out and say Nico punted Hamilton on purpose, but they also did not hide their displeasure. In the heat of the moment they were very definitely angry with Nico, and it was only hours after the fact that they were saying Hamilton misinterpreted Nico. It was only hours after the fact .... hours after everyone had calmed down, that Mercedes tried to smooth this over and make Nico look less at fault.

But again, let's leave emotion and conjecture out of it. Let's not try to say we know what Nico was thinking. I just want to know why he pointed the car at Hamilton's car unless that's exactly where he wanted it to go.

[The Black Knight]

A lot of people simply hate Lewis or hate Nico and that influences their view. I like both of the Mercedes drivers and hated to see this whole thing happen at all. As such, I think I can look at the video and have an unbiased view. I also have a little experience in a race car, not that it matters, but I understand how some of this stuff works.

I was a big fan of Keke and really wanted to see his son succeed. Some of you might remember (or not) that I was willing to give Nico the benefit of the doubt after Monoco, and I did not want to believe what I was seeing yesterday.

Why would you crank the steering wheel toward your teammate unless that's where you wanted to car to go?

No matter how you look at it, there is no getting away from the fact that Nico cranked the wheel over hard toward Lewis, when all he had to do was crank left and go around the next corner, or at least over the curb and avoid a collision. While this doesn't prove Nico hit Hammy on purpose, there is no doubt Nico did absolutely nothing to avoid the collision.

Backing up a bit, Nico has gone off the track a few times (aside from Monoco) in qualifying this year. Once was Hungary, and there was another incident where I can't remember the track. In both instances, there was none of the weird back and worth sawing of the steering wheel like there was when Nico went off at Monoco. It looked weird at the time, but now that I have less faith in Nico's sporting ethic, I think he drove down the escape road on purpose and the flailing of the steering wheel was just theatrics to sell the notion he had made a mistake instead of a cold, calculated cheat. He wanted the car to look out of control.

Maybe the most telling sign is that the team was so visibly upset with Nico. They can't exactly come out and say Nico punted Hamilton on purpose, but they also did not hide their displeasure. In the heat of the moment they were very definitely angry with Nico, and it was only hours after the fact that they were saying Hamilton misinterpreted Nico. It was only hours after the fact .... hours after everyone had calmed down, that Mercedes tried to smooth this over and make Nico look less at fault.

But again, let's leave emotion and conjecture out of it. Let's not try to say we know what Nico was thinking. I just want to know why he pointed the car at Hamilton's car unless that's exactly where he wanted it to go.

Bingo! If he can explain this then I'd happily put this down to a racing incident. Unfortunately, the thing is that, the only explanation that stands up to scrutiny is that he wanted to take Hamilton out of it and did so rather successfully.

[Doc Austin]

Bingo! If he can explain this then I'd happily put this down to a racing incident. Unfortunately, the thing is that, the only explanation that stands up to scrutiny is that he wanted to take Hamilton out of it and did so rather successfully.

If the tail end is stepping out at that point, the car would be trying to spin clockwise (when viewed from above). The way to save the car would be to turn into the slide (point the car where you want it to go). Instead, Nico turned the other way, into Hamilton (point the car where you want it to go).

In the end, I can't think of an instance where you would do anything but point the car where you want it to go. As such, I also don't believe Nico was trying to slot in behind and misjudged it. He pinched Hamilton so hard going into the first corner that they banged wheels. Right there would have been enough reason to back out and try again later. If you are so close to your teammate that you hit wheels, why would you not save the situation by backing out and live to fight another day? Why push a bad position, especially with your teammate ... unless, that is, a collision was what you wanted to begin with?

I would love to be able to find an excuse for what Nico did, but I just can't. I believe a lot of the people defending Nico watched the video from outside the car and made up their minds then. The really damming evidence is Nico's in car camera and the amount of lock he put into the steering wheel. Why would you need to apply that much right lock to go around the next left hand corner? Why turn right when left would take you away from the collision, unless the collision was exactly what you wanted?

[henners88]

I have rewatched the incident, Lewis knewed quite well that Nico was on the outside and had superior speed hence he let his car drift out and nearly forced Nico off track. Nico saw this and backed down but to late. Lewis on the radio: Ohhh he hit me, he hit me me me.

A racing incident but I´m not so sure the fault was Nicos.
You're right, Lewis should have had his eyes glued to the mirror in case the car behind wanted him to get off the racing line mid corner after braking from over 200mph! Haha... Watch it again and see if you can find anything else Lewis did wrong, I'm off to rub some Ibuleve gel into my sides. Bless you Mia, you don't half entertain. :)

[Doc Austin]

By the way , Michael did admit that he turned in on Jacques , framing it with "Deliberate , but instinctual ."

This has nothing in common with that .

Yes. This was "deliberate, but premeditated."

Why else would Nico take aim on Hamilton's car? Did he think turning into Hamilton would avoid the collision?

I am willing to be wrong on this if someone can explain to me why Nico had to use nearly full lock toward Hamilton's car unless he was trying to cause a collision.


Merc is responsible for letting this go too far .

Totally agree. They should have made them take turns until both championships were out of the other team's reach, and then let them go after each other.

Bruce McLaren was smart enough to play the game that way in the Can Am championship. Their advantage was so large that he and Dennis Hulme would take turns to the point everyone called it "The Bruce and Denny show." As long as McLaren was alive, no one could touch them.

Mercedes now has a similar advantage, but they let everything get out of control and I believe the situation is now irretrievable. There is simply no way for Mercedes to make it up to Hamilton. No way. They can't give him points. They also can't do anything to Rosberg since he is 30 points into the lead, or at least they would be crazy to. Hamilton is going to stay pissed and Rosberg knows he can punt Hamilton any time it suits him.

All Mercedes can do now is tell them not to hit each other, because that worked so well yesterday, right?

What do you do if you are Mercedes? If you lay down the law ..... even if you could possibly force them to play to team orders, Hamilton is still going to feel like he has been cheated, and Rosberg knows he can do what he wants and the team's hands are tied. I think all Mercedes can do now is tell them to behave and then wait for the next collision to happen, which will probably be on the first lap of the next race.

I can not see any possible scenario that keeps these two together at Mercedes next year. I can see Hamilton going back to McLaren, and Hulkenburg taking the second Mercedes.

[Norwegian Blue]

This is the Lewis who barged his way through the field at Hockenheim a month ago we're talking about... everyone said it was a great drive, even though in more than one occasion, had somebody else not taken evasive action, his race would have been over! It was a misjudgement in this case... I can't see anything else but Rosberg thinking he was going to slot in behind, but Lewis didn't jump ahead the way Nico expected.

As for those saying this will bring the sport into disrepute... I'd bet that many were Lewis fans who before Spa were loving the prospect of these cars touching at some point, as long as the outcome was favourable! It's exciting, unpredictable... and will go down to the wire, maybe even with 3 drivers! Bernie must be loving it!

Disclaimer... I would be happy to see Rosberg, Hamilton or Ricciardo win... big fans of all!

[Mifune]

This is the Lewis who barged his way through the field at Hockenheim a month ago we're talking about... everyone said it was a great drive, even though in more than one occasion, had somebody else not taken evasive action, his race would have been over! It was a misjudgement in this case... I can't see anything else but Rosberg thinking he was going to slot in behind, but Lewis didn't jump ahead the way Nico expected.

As for those saying this will bring the sport into disrepute... I'd bet that many were Lewis fans who before Spa were loving the prospect of these cars touching at some point, as long as the outcome was favourable! It's exciting, unpredictable... and will go down to the wire, maybe even with 3 drivers! Bernie must be loving it!

Disclaimer... I would be happy to see Rosberg, Hamilton or Ricciardo win... big fans of all!


What did people like you do before the internet? Talk too loudly in rotisserie pubs at the weekend I s'pose....
By the way you were probably grasping for "ON more than one occasion"
May want to keep an eye your punctuation too, dolts like me got a short attention span, y'know?
Thanks for the Disclaimer, the Internet wants you know that your opinion is oh so important.

Hey what happened to iaon BTW? Did he succeed in his mission of lowering the general IQ of the Internet and turning a once decent forum into the under-populated confederacy of dunces it is now?
Just sayin...

[steveaki13]

What did people like you do before the internet? Talk too loudly in rotisserie pubs at the weekend I s'pose....
By the way you were probably grasping for "ON more than one occasion"
May want to keep an eye your punctuation too, dolts like me got a short attention span, y'know?
Thanks for the Disclaimer, the Internet wants you know that your opinion is oh so important.

Hey what happened to iaon BTW? Did he succeed in his mission of lowering the general IQ of the Internet and turning a once decent forum into the under-populated confederacy of dunces it is now?
Just sayin...

Wow

Same back at ya pal. I love you too

[henners88]

ioan is still pushing his broken down Espace through the Alps with no 3G. I'm still trying to work out if I miss him or not? :p

[steveaki13]

ioan is still pushing his broken down Espace through the Alps with no 3G. I'm still trying to work out if I miss him or not? :p

Of course we do. ;)

[Doc Austin]

Look at Nico's left hand.


http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/8/2/6/5/3/a7045387-208-Snapshot%201%20%288-25-2014%203-07%20PM%29.jpg

[Bagwan]

Doc , I just watched it again , from Nico's perspective .

I must say it clearer to me now .

But , I don't agree with you .
Nico did exactly as he said , and if his team mate had allowed room , and not just assumed that Nico would back out , his turn of the wheel would have carried him very squarely around that corner .
Only a moment before , he had had his front wheel right beside Lewis's sidepod , so there is no way Lewis didn't know he was there .

And this is the most important point I want to make in this , and one I believe that the stewards understood :
Nico was alongside Lewis mid-corner , and , at that point Nico prepared to travel through the corner , lifting to make it around , which he would have clearly been able to do had Lewis not cut across .
Lewis assumed Nico had backed out , but as he had clearly not prepared for the fact that Nico , who was alongside him might opt to stay there , he drove through because he had too much speed to leave Nico enough room anyway .

[henners88]

These guys have good reactions, better than us, but even they can't negotiate a corner like that while looking backwards. Hamilton expected Nico to back out because he should have done just that. Nico was the only driver who had control over how that incident played out as he was behind. He should have given Lewis room knowing he was on the racing line, in front, and on the inside of the first part of the corner. Nico messed up, not deliberately, but we all face consequences from our bosses when mistakes are made. I'm sure he's had his knuckles smacked.

[donKey jote]

Look at the apex and where both cars are pointing :devil: :andrea:
Could it be ham is also turning right a bit? trying to avoid nico? After a bit of a squeeze? :p :sailor:

[Bagwan]

Look at Nico's left hand.


http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/8/2/6/5/3/a7045387-208-Snapshot%201%20%288-25-2014%203-07%20PM%29.jpg

Now , look at the direction of Lewis's car .
At that point , he still can turn in far enough to allow room , but he's in too fast to do it .

Nico , at that point was pointed towards the narrowest apex he could take from there .

Lewis left no option but back out or be forced off , with a car only a tenth of second earlier , with it's wheel up beside his sidepod , mid-corner .

That's why they deemed it a driving incident .
Both were at fault .

[henners88]

The space Rosberg had is another point, he also had the choice to cut the chicane knowing he'd gone in too deep.

[Norwegian Blue]

What did people like you do before the internet? Talk too loudly in rotisserie pubs at the weekend I s'pose....
By the way you were probably grasping for "ON more than one occasion"
May want to keep an eye your punctuation too, dolts like me got a short attention span, y'know?
Thanks for the Disclaimer, the Internet wants you know that your opinion is oh so important.

Hey what happened to iaon BTW? Did he succeed in his mission of lowering the general IQ of the Internet and turning a once decent forum into the under-populated confederacy of dunces it is now?
Just sayin...

I might be wrong, but this is a forum, which is where people come to share opinions is it not? I'm glad you appreciated my disclaimer, with so many taking sides i felt it may be useful for people weighing in to be open about whether they are on either drivers side in general?

By the way, you were probably grasping for "May want to keep an eye ON your punctuation too".

I must remember not to feed the trolls in the future... Enjoying the racing anyway!

[Mia 01]

Now , look at the direction of Lewis's car .
At that point , he still can turn in far enough to allow room , but he's in too fast to do it .

Nico , at that point was pointed towards the narrowest apex he could take from there .

Lewis left no option but back out or be forced off , with a car only a tenth of second earlier , with it's wheel up beside his sidepod , mid-corner .

That's why they deemed it a driving incident .
Both were at fault .

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I´m also of this opinion. Noone yield 50/50.

[555-04Q2]

Was a 50/50 call. "Racing" incident IMO. Lewis is bleating like a girl though!

[steveaki13]

I overall see it as a racing incident to be honest. Though I feel Rosberg is to blame for most of it through his misjudgement. I also feel Lewis is maybe a bit unwise going to the press like this.

However Lewis is 29 points behind and probably needs to try some psychological games to put pressure on Nico. A world title is at stake.

If I were Lewis I would be doing all I could to put pressure on Rosberg

If I were Nico, I would be more than pleased with how the race went on Sunday. Alls fair in love and war unless you get penalised I guess

[555-04Q2]

I overall see it as a racing incident to be honest. Though I feel Rosberg is to blame for most of it through his misjudgement. I also feel Lewis is maybe a bit unwise going to the press like this.

However Lewis is 29 points behind and probably needs to try some psychological games to put pressure on Nico. A world title is at stake.

If I were Lewis I would be doing all I could to put pressure on Rosberg

If I were Nico, I would be more than pleased with how the race went on Sunday. Alls fair in love and war unless you get penalised I guess

Yeah the battle between Nico and Lewis is getting exciting. Mercedes bosses must be crapping themselves :p:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yes. This was "deliberate, but premeditated."

Why else would Nico take aim on Hamilton's car? Did he think turning into Hamilton would avoid the collision?

I am willing to be wrong on this if someone can explain to me why Nico had to use nearly full lock toward Hamilton's car unless he was trying to cause a collision.


There's an easy explanation for that. You are simply jumping to conclusions based on lacking data. The Stewards, who looked into it have a former F1 driver between them, who would see a deliberate attempt at causing a crash immediately. They have seen the same sequence you based your 'expertise' on. Yet they seen nothing of the sort and they can consult the telemetry data that none of us has.

By the way, Nico was at the time LEFT of the required line to take the next corner halfway decently, so to remediate that he would have to turn right. And in case of understeer, steering right would also be worth an attempt.

[Doc Austin]

There's an easy explanation for that. You are simply jumping to conclusions based on lacking data.

I'm not lacking any data. I saw the video with my own eyes. Seeing Nico turn the wheel that hard toward his teammate is all the info I needed.


They have seen the same sequence you based your 'expertise' on.

Your sentence doesn't even make sense, but that doesn't surprise anyone.


By the way, Nico was at the time LEFT of the required line to take the next corner halfway decently, so to remediate that he would have to turn right.

He was off line because Hamilton had the line and had already won the corner.


The Stewards, who looked into it have a former F1 driver between them, who would see a deliberate attempt at causing a crash immediately.

Just because these stewards have gotten to F1 doesn't mean they can't get it wrong. If that's the measuring stick, neither Nico nor Lewis can be wrong here either.

And Massa, who is a current F1 driver, believes Nico should be penalized (http://www.racer.com/f1/item/107867-massa-rosberg-could-ve-been-penalised).

Besides, who cares what the stewards say? I can make up my own mind.


And in case of understeer, steering right would also be worth an attempt.

Especially if you're trying to take the car to your right out of the race.

At best Nico was stupid for forcing a very marginal position, but I think it was premeditated, just like all that wild sawing back and forth of the steering wheel was when Rosberg shot down the escape road at Monoco. I was willing to give Rosberg the benefit of the doubt, but now we are seeing a pattern of Nico doing whatever it takes, whether sporting or not.

[Robinho]

At the point of contact Nico still has a cars width beside him to the edge of the track, it might no be optimal, but he is behind and attempting to go round the outside. He had plenty of room, and still stuck the nose in. Not hangable, but still 100% his fault

[zako85]

Bernie must be truly satisfied the way things have unfolded this season. Guys who had sworn off the Formula 1 after the 2013 season are now tripping over their HDMI cables and DVR sets, trying to catch a replay of the Sundays race.

[donKey jote]

I overall see it as a racing incident to be honest. Though I feel Rosberg is to blame for most of it through his misjudgement.
Yep

I also feel Lewis is maybe a bit unwise going to the press like this.

Yep. It worked in 2007... almost! :andrea:

[Tazio]

:stareup: :sailor: :angel:

[airshifter]

Read your post and reverse the situation. If I stated that strongly that Lewis caused the accident on purpose and tried to kill Nico, would you find it a reasonable thing to state?

Read your own post please before asking me to reread mine. If you're going to make a statement like the above after asking me to reverse the situation and not expect me, or anyone, to take from it that you are suggesting that I implied Nico tried to kill Hamilton then you need to be more careful in your phrasing. Quite frankly, I'm not sure what the point of the above statement was now. Feel free to clarify.


Being you are bolding something and assuming you know how I would answer any question, I'm not even going to address this. You're living in a land where you think you understand another persons intentions better than they do. And in your mind those intentions must be biased against what you think, when in reality humans often simply don't agree.



He's a human being that already cheated in Monaco and, yes, I am accusing him of malicious intent. As for the beating of the ex girlfriends remark, I can't ever possibly think of a situation where someone beats another human being without intent. It's simply not in the same context. We're discussing something that a driver did to another driver. The question is whether there was intent. The answer is yes, there was, and that was clearly obvious from the moment it happened. Give me a logical explanation for the second turn of the wheel. Don't give me a "He couldn't have known he would hit Hamilton's tire" excuse. Rosberg is one of the best drivers in the world and knows exactly where his front wing is. Give me a proper explanation for turning in the second time please.


Your opening statement makes your existing bias apparent. And if you remove that bias, you would see how my comparison is similar. After a minor incident deemed by the stewards and FIA a racing incident, you have openly stated Nico intends to use his car as a weapon.

The logical explanation is in where the car is and where the car needs to go to make the corner. Nico was already well off line, and Lewis have him no room unless Nico aimed for the edge of the track.




As for the Alonso incident, I don't believe he intentionally hit Vettel. Why would he? Unlike Nico, he had nothing to gain. It was a rare mistake from the most complete driver on the grid. We've already seen that Nico is predisposed to cheating this year and he gained 18 points in the championship lead because of what happened. He had plenty to gain from Lewis's exit. Plus once Alonso committed there was noway out for him. Nico always had a way out.

So Alonso gets a pass when in fact there was not the slightest chance his car was going to fit where he tried to put it, but Nico is a premeditated assassin with a Mercedes weapon aimed at Lewis? I don't usually state things so bluntly, but I think you are living in an alternate reality if you think that is the case. If cutting a tire was so easy, surely of all drivers Alonso could have cut Vettels tire without trouble? Did Fred just miss the exact spot that cuts an oppenents tire and Nico is so good he nailed it?

There is never an advantage to damaging your own car this early in a season. Both Nico and Lewis had ways out, neither took the way out. The stewards and FIA have ruled based on the same data we have seen and probably data we have not.

[airshifter]

Now , look at the direction of Lewis's car .
At that point , he still can turn in far enough to allow room , but he's in too fast to do it .

Nico , at that point was pointed towards the narrowest apex he could take from there .

Lewis left no option but back out or be forced off , with a car only a tenth of second earlier , with it's wheel up beside his sidepod , mid-corner .

That's why they deemed it a driving incident .
Both were at fault .

Agreed. Nico had no choice but to either jump the curbs or try to tuck back in behind Lewis. They both screwed it up because neither gave an inch. Well actually on corner entry Nico did, correcting to the left slightly so as not to squeeze Lewis too hard.

What makes it worse is that many drivers this year have run multiple corners side by side. Alonso used all kinds of unusual lines and nobody belted into each other until that last dive when he hit Vettel. Why is it that other drivers can race harder yet remain so much cleaner and not cause collisions? Could it possibly be that both drivers at McLaren feel that they are entitled to make the other driver yield rather than just get on with some clean racing?

[Nem14]

Nico !

Coo ! Coo ! La ! Rue ! Dude ! ! ! !

Been there, done that in karting to also make a point with a chicken guano rival I had previously gone off the track to avoid contact with.
So I understand exactly what you were talking about in the cough! cough! 'closed door meeting'.

Lewis can't take what he dishes and needs to man up.

Get Lewis a gift - some cheese to go with his whine !

[henners88]

I overall see it as a racing incident to be honest. Though I feel Rosberg is to blame for most of it through his misjudgement. I also feel Lewis is maybe a bit unwise going to the press like this.

However Lewis is 29 points behind and probably needs to try some psychological games to put pressure on Nico. A world title is at stake.

If I were Lewis I would be doing all I could to put pressure on Rosberg

If I were Nico, I would be more than pleased with how the race went on Sunday. Alls fair in love and war unless you get penalised I guess

Lewis is just letting off some steam and trying to turn as many people against Rosberg as possible, I can't fault him for that. His race and potentially the championship has been ruined by a rookie mistake performed by Nico and the psychological stuff has to start now. He got inside Alonso's head in 2007 and Massa's the following year but I just hope it helps his chances on this one.

If one team mate is punting the other one off, we can hardly whine about a few comments in the press! lol Bring it on.

[zako85]

Lewis is just letting off some steam and trying to turn as many people against Rosberg as possible, I can't fault him for that. His race and potentially the championship has been ruined by a rookie mistake performed by Nico and the psychological stuff has to start now. He got inside Alonso's head in 2007 and Massa's the following year but I just hope it helps his chances on this one.

If one team mate is punting the other one off, we can hardly whine about a few comments in the press! lol Bring it on.

Rosberg is no rookie. Most or all of F1 drivers are alpha males. The problem with Rosberg is that he hasn't yet learned when to turn down his alpha for his own good. As for Hamilton, the opinion of a lot of fans has been that he should just shut up and race. There is a difference between letting off steam and playing psychological warfare through the press. The repercussions are huge. What Hamilton did is trying to label Rosberg as a cheater in the eyes of bystanders. A lot of people are already ready to label Rosberg as a cheater "because Hamilton said that Rosberg admitted.."

[Bagwan]

The question to ask now is whether Lewis got Nico's message .

Nem14 has the idea .

Mind you , Lewis didn't get the message sent by Nico when he said he had learned from the last race .
That was a race where , at the end , after being forced to stay behind , giving up a shot at victory , Nico was forced off by a Hamilton trying to keep third on his resultant trashed tires .

It was pretty obvious to me that Nico was not going to give up an outside move so easily any more .
He did prove a point .
Many of those defending Lewis , saying that the move to claim third instead of having his team mate a stab at winning is moot , are now seeing Ricciardo making Merc nervous only one race later .

Lewis never considered that Nico could be there , never slowing enough to have left room .
With Nico right beside him , sighted , he chose to assume Nico would back out .

Rather than backing out , Nico prepared to take the corner , and Hamilton took off his nose .
Mid-corner , with his front right beside Lewis's sidepod , Nico had every right to set up to take the corner outside of Lewis .


All that said , though , Lewis was ahead a split second later , and gained the right to take the corner .
However , he did it on an assumption I hope he knows he can no longer make .

[The Black Knight]

Being you are bolding something and assuming you know how I would answer any question, I'm not even going to address this. You're living in a land where you think you understand another persons intentions better than they do. And in your mind those intentions must be biased against what you think, when in reality humans often simply don't agree.

I'll take that as a submission on your part because you clearly don't know what the reverse of something is.




Your opening statement makes your existing bias apparent. And if you remove that bias, you would see how my comparison is similar. After a minor incident deemed by the stewards and FIA a racing incident, you have openly stated Nico intends to use his car as a weapon.

The logical explanation is in where the car is and where the car needs to go to make the corner. Nico was already well off line, and Lewis have him no room unless Nico aimed for the edge of the track.

Thanks you've just provide my point there. Hamilton was on the racing line, Nico was off the racing line. Enough said.



So Alonso gets a pass when in fact there was not the slightest chance his car was going to fit where he tried to put it, but Nico is a premeditated assassin with a Mercedes weapon aimed at Lewis? I don't usually state things so bluntly, but I think you are living in an alternate reality if you think that is the case. If cutting a tire was so easy, surely of all drivers Alonso could have cut Vettels tire without trouble? Did Fred just miss the exact spot that cuts an oppenents tire and Nico is so good he nailed it?

There is never an advantage to damaging your own car this early in a season. Both Nico and Lewis had ways out, neither took the way out. The stewards and FIA have ruled based on the same data we have seen and probably data we have not.

Lewis didn't have a way out, neither did Vettel. Alonso didn't have a way out after he committed to the corner. Nico had a way out, he could have done like many others did on Sunday (or Vettel on lap one) and gone across the kerb and kept his position. Instead he chose to do what he could take his tital rival out of the race and it succeeded. Unfortunately, it seems like nothing can bed one about this now. The FIA won't intervenve because no new information has been officially reported to them. The only hope here is that Mercedes bosses actually do something to properly punish Rosberg and reduce the gap back down.

[Bagwan]

Lewis decided he didn't need a way out , despite Nico being right beside him mid-corner .

[The Black Knight]

Some drivers are beginning to express an opinion on Nico the Cheats move on Sunday.

Button agrees:

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/24180/9440776/jenson-button-says-nico-rosberg8217-s-move-on-lewis-hamilton-at-spa-was-8216-unbelievable8217-

Massa also agrees:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115571

Good to see some drivers come out in support of Hamilton. Hopefully the remaining drivers will as well.

I agree with Button, I'm very happy with the way Hamilton has reacted to all of this. He definitely has grown and matured over the last couple of years. It's a pity that a cheat in control of this years championship now but it's not over yet.

[zako85]

Black night, not of the links you posted support the obnoxious claim that Rosberg is a cheat.

[The Black Knight]

Black night, not of the links you posted support the obnoxious claim that Rosberg is a cheat.

Unfortunately, in today's PC world drivers can't come out directly and say someone is a cheat. Calling a move unbelievable is as close as it will get. Martin Brundle sums it up well


Rosberg’s post-race words and otherwise limited explanation do at least explain why, having turned away initially, he then not only straightens the wheel but actually turns towards Hamilton.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report/22058/9441022/nico-rosbergs-simmering-anger-with-lewis-hamilton-spills-over-into-fireworks-at-spa

I honestly feel embarrassed for F1 that this has been left unpunished. If Nico the Cheat goes on to win the WDC this year, it'll be the equivalent of a boxer getting a TKO with a block of lead in his gloves. Just like Monaco, this is an embarrassment to F1.

[rjbetty]

A normal race incident in the heat the first few laps normaly create, happens in many races.

Of course Mia, just like Chilton/Raikkonen in Monaco.

[rjbetty]

Though I support Lewis I will believe this was an accident if it really was. If not, I won't.

I don't know what I find more staggering; the fact that Nico has again benefitted enormously from a mistake, or the fact that Nico can do these things in Monaco and Spa (which Schumacher was publicly crucified for even though it was never proven deliberate), yet somehow Lewis comes out of the episode as the bad guy!! That's messed up.

While I'm at it, there have been WDCs who's deservedness have been questioned. i.e. they may have not been the best driver in the year they took the title. But I have never known anyone have their title denied them in the way that people do not acknowledge Lewis' 2008 title, instead calling Massa the 2008 champ. That is hugely disrespectful.

This year, I think I am seeing it with my own eyes; there is an inordinate dislike towards Hamilton and I don't know what it's about.

[zako85]

This year, I think I am seeing it with my own eyes; there is an inordinate dislike towards Hamilton and I don't know what it's about.

I think you like to see what you like to see. I see some Hamilton dislike, yes. However, it's not overwhelming. Did the booing of Rosberg at the podium ceremony imply that people dislike Hamilton? I think not.

My personal thoughts are that one Hamilton was the victim in this incident. Two, he should shut the crap up about what he supposedly heard that Rosberg admitted privately.

[rjbetty]

Expect this from Wolff as he does not want his driver banned but yes it's the second crank - no different to Jerez 97 - it told the full story! I just hope the FIA get involved and ban him!

One thing for sure, Hamilton is coming out of this looking squeaky clean! He really learned from 2007.

I'm sorry Black Knight, but even if Nico pointed a gun at Lewis and blew a hole in his head, Nico would be squeaky clean while somehow Lewis would still manage to come out of it as the bad guy. :(

I wonder what Keke thinks of all this since he branded Michael Schumacher a cheap cheat who should get out of the GPDA etc? Will be interesting to hear his view. I hope he won't be a massive hypocrite given there was never proof Michael had intent.

I'm a bit old fashioned, just bear with me everyone...

[zako85]

Unfortunately, in today's PC world drivers can't come out directly and say someone is a cheat. Calling a move unbelievable is as close as it will get. Martin Brundle sums it up well


You really want to believe only things you want to believe. In your strange world, everyone is evil and happens to be against "the justice" or at least against Hamilton. Among them are:

1. The FIA
2. The NBC sports commentators
3. Toto Wolff
4. The F1 drivers you quoted.

So far, I have seen no third-party figure of any real authority or respect in Formula 1 pointing finger at Rosberg and saying Rosberg crashed into Hamilton on purpose. This whole situation reminds me the trial of George Zimmerman from a year ago. Guilty of having a bad judgement? Probably yes. But you can't really prove or claim with a straight face there was a malicious intent.

I mean, please. Can we have at least have the usual media trolls like JV or Minardi say something?

[rjbetty]

I think you like to see what you like to see. I see some Hamilton dislike, yes. However, it's not overwhelming. Did the booing of Rosberg at the podium ceremony imply that people dislike Hamilton? I think not.

My personal thoughts are that one Hamilton was the victim in this incident. Two, he should shut the crap up about what he supposedly heard that Rosberg admitted privately.

Thanks for your view Zak. Well I don't really wanna see something if it's not true and can be open to change my opinion. I am currently considering and re-evaluating Kobayashi for example (sad he lost his drive for his race, but Lotterer did pretty well at least!).

With the booing, Rosberg simply dismissed it as "oh they're British." He doesn't seem to have considered that maybe some of the fan might just want to see sporting fair play and a clean fight.

[The Black Knight]

Though I support Lewis I will believe this was an accident if it really was. If not, I won't.

I don't know what I find more staggering; the fact that Nico has again benefitted enormously from a mistake, or the fact that Nico can do these things in Monaco and Spa (which Schumacher was publicly crucified for even though it was never proven deliberate), yet somehow Lewis comes out of the episode as the bad guy!! That's messed up.

While I'm at it, there have been WDCs who's deservedness have been questioned. i.e. they may have not been the best driver in the year they took the title. But I have never known anyone have their title denied them in the way that people do not acknowledge Lewis' 2008 title, instead calling Massa the 2008 champ. That is hugely disrespectful.

This year, I think I am seeing it with my own eyes; there is an inordinate dislike towards Hamilton and I don't know what it's about.

If someone can explain to me why Nico straightened up the wheel and then move in towards Lewis I'd happily accept this as an accident as well. If they can't, and no one has so far, then I won't.

As for the dislike towards Hamilton, the fact that he is black probably has something to do with it. We all know there is a lot of racism in the world. I'm not pointing the finger towards anyone on the forum here as I've never seen a hint of racism here that I can remember. Also, Lewis races hard but I find him to be very fair. In previous years, he probably did step over the line on a couple of occasions, but this year I can't remember any incident where he did. F1 isn't about presents. It's up to the guy behind to get by, not for the guy in front to step aside and say "After you, Sir!"

You're right though, It's funny really the way people call Massa the 2008 champ and forget Lewis won Spa and had it unfairly taken off of him and at the end of the day he had more points than Massa without cheating.

[Doc Austin]

It's nice to see the forum becoming so active again.



The Black Knight] If someone can explain to me why Nico straightened up the wheel and then move in towards Lewis I'd happily accept this as an accident as well. If they can't, and no one has so far, then I won't.

Why would you point the car anywhere except where you want it to go?

[Mintexmemory]

It's nice to see the forum becoming so active again.




Why would you point the car anywhere except where you want it to go?

Exactly, it's either deliberate which is reprehensible or a mistake that is woeful incompetence. Either way young Nico is not fit to be out on his own!!

[Duncan]

If someone can explain to me why Nico straightened up the wheel and then move in towards Lewis I'd happily accept this as an accident as well. If they can't, and no one has so far, then I won't.

I really don't see anything conclusive in the video; cars like that just don't handle like road cars when on the limit (and the first turn at Les Combes certainly will qualify). Without the benefit of whatever feel for the road Nico had you can't tell whether he was trying to turn in or just correct for a washout at the front of the car.

All that said, the incident was 100% Nico's fault, even if it might be classified as a "racing incident". Just because it was an incredibly stupid move to make in the first place that created a completely unnecessary risk of an intra-team wipeout. A suicide dive like that might even be a commendably aggressive piece of driving in some situations, like late in the race for the last points-paying position, but against your teammate on the second lap when your cars are two seconds quicker than the field? Stupid and reckless, and any negative outcome is on Nico's head.

I don't take Nico's reported remarks about making a point to imply that he collided deliberately, just that he was making the point that he was prepared to play chicken with his teammate and not back down, even if that meant colliding. That's an awfully fine distinction, though.

Having thought about it, I actually think Hamilton going to the press with this is pretty smart. By fueling the controversy to the point where there was active discussion of getting the stewards involved, he's managed to neutralize any "point" that Nico might have been trying to make. Specifically, Nico now knows that he can't do that, and there's going to be a ton of scrutiny applied by the stewards if he gets into any kind of scrape from now on. From Hamilton's point of view, that's a decent piece of salvage from this mess.

[donKey jote]

My personal thoughts are that one Hamilton was the victim in this incident. Two, he should shut the crap up about what he supposedly heard that Rosberg admitted privately.
Eggs, actly!
Three, whinging to the press or crying to mommy is something you should only expect to get away with if you are more than squeaky clean yourself.
Four, sort it out on the track unless deep down you doubt you have the ability to :andrea:
Five, shut up y'all and drive, dammit :bounce:

[henners88]

If he can get inside Nico's head he should say more! We want inside stuff not PR speak, use the press to his advantage ;) lol

[donKey jote]

I prefer to see fair racing and the races being decided on the track, without pschogames, hissy fits or external influence be it FIA or press. Each his own lol :p

[henners88]

I like all the ins and outs of F1 but mostly the battles on track. Lewis was right to be pissed off and I don't begrudge him having a little moan. If we can share our opinions in public why can't the drivers? The relationship between then is damaged beyond help so he might as well try and get the psychological edge somehow.

Fans love a vocal driver unless it's Lewis Hamilton generally, so i'll break the bandwagon.

[555-04Q2]

I like all the ins and outs of F1 but mostly the battles on track. Lewis was right to be pissed off and I don't begrudge him having a little moan. If we can share our opinions in public why can't the drivers? The relationship between then is damaged beyond help so he might as well try and get the psychological edge somehow.

Fans love a vocal driver unless it's Lewis Hamilton generally, so i'll break the bandwagon.

Sports stars and particularly F1 drivers are spoilt brats really. They need to man up and get on with it :)

[henners88]

What about the fans, do we shut up and get on with it too? Quiet is boring especially for a forum ;)

[555-04Q2]

What about the fans, do we shut up and get on with it too? Quiet is boring especially for a forum ;)

We're allowed to make a fuss, we're not famous stars ;) :D

[henners88]

Ah ok, Lewis you idiot calm down and spend your cash!

[555-04Q2]

:laugh: Good idea :D

[555-04Q2]

Lewis has had some bad luck this season, but he's also been his own worst enemy for a few seasons now. He needs to focus again if he wants this championship.

[steveaki13]

Lewis has had some bad luck this season, but he's also been his own worst enemy for a few seasons now. He needs to focus again if he wants this championship.

Sadly this is the case.

He is just always involved. Which is a problem

[truefan72]

I prefer to see fair racing and the races being decided on the track, without psychogames, hissy fits or external influence be it FIA or press. Each his own lol :p

we all would like to see fair racing
but it seems one driver is bent on being unfair...namely Nico

so to me it is laughable that after monaco people say "it is what it is, stop whining Hamilton" let it happen on the track
knowing full well that monaco is impossible to pass with equal machinery. and anything short of a suicide divebomb ( like spa oddly enough) would be ridiculous to both team and driver

that was an "on track situation"

Same with spa, after he destroys his teammate's race, who btw was leading the race at that moment, and his closest WDC rival, on an on track stupid move that was cynical at best and probably deliberate at worst, folks like you are now saying " i wish hamilton would shut up and just race ,and have it decided on the track"
Well that is what he bloody well is trying to do, isn't it???

Nico knows he is no match for Hamilton in a fair fight and thus has resorted to these tactics
nevermind that he has benefitted from some horrendous luck on the part of Hamilton's car, and despite all that was just 11 points ahead.

If his car did not break down d in Australia, it would have been 5/5 for hamilton, and lets remember that monaco incident happened right after Hamilton won 4 in a row and was looking good for pole in Monaco and Nico did what he did to stop that momentum.

Now in Spa, hamilton beat him off the line in the start and Nico did what he did to stop him. I'm not sure what point he was trying to prove. Because the hungarian GP situation was ridiculous at all levels and the team acknowledged that afterwards. Being slower than his teammate and championship rival, not being able to be close enough to make a pass then whining and asking the team to have him pass him was just dumb. So if he was angry about that situation then he must be nuts that his championship rival won't slow down and let him pass so he can win the race and put him further ahead in points.

To me it seems like there is one driver trying to win his races and perform fairly and there is another guy who has a complete sense of undeserved entitlement (Nico) who is trying to win the championship unfairly.

I have stayed quiet over the pas few days just to observe and see where this conversation would go in these forums, and like a few others, tend to agree that the dislike for Hamilton, for whatever reason, seems to cloud many here in their opinion. Because I shudder to think about the vitriol and record breaking thread counts that would have happened crucifying hamilton if the situation were in reverse.

All you have to see is how folks responded in 2011 when he got into several racing incidents with massa and webber. Most poignantly how many were quick to blame him for all contacts with massa, and then defended webber in singapore despite turning into hamilton.

So lets see if monza can be a "fair race" and see what happens. With 8 races to go it will be tough, but I still think hamilton can do it.
But TBH i have absolutely no faith in Rosberg driving fair or not doing something else stupid that folks here will be quick to defend.

[Doc Austin]

It's hard to argue anything that Truefan72 had to say.

To me, it's pretty open and shut that you point the car the way you want it to go. I would not think the best way to approach the next corner, which was a left, would be to crank in full right lock. That is, unless your intention was to go to the right, which is where Hamilton was.

I have always admired the way Vettel won fair and never resorted to chopping, blocking or swerving. That's why it never bothered me that he was dominating. Right now he looks pretty ordinary, but of all of them, he would be the one I would worry about the least when going wheel to wheel. I have never seen him do anything unfair

Over the years I've seen Nico swerve the full width of the straight to block an opponent, so I am not surprised that he finally did something like this. Disappointed, certainly, but not surprised. Senna and then Schumacher drove like that for so long that it's become acceptable.

So now, because of Senna and Schumacher, we have a new generation of drivers who seem to think that anything you can get away with is ok, even if it is potentially deadly.

I can't pretend to know what Nico was thinking, but I also can't imagine where else he thought the car was going to go when he cranked the wheel over toward his teammate. There is no possible excuse for him to have done that. Even if he might contend he was trying to slot in behind, I can't believe a guy who is leading the world championship could misjudge a move on his own teammate/"friend" that damm badly.

Again, the best part of the story could have been the two friends having a sporting duel for the championship. Now it seems we are going to have a friendship ruined and a dirty championship. This is the legacy Senna and Schumacher have left for them.

[Rollo]

What about the fans, do we shut up and get on with it too? Quiet is boring especially for a forum ;)

Isn't that ultimately what sport is actually for?
No we will not shut up and get on with it too. We will fight every argument beyond the point of stupidity. :D

Sport is basically the same as watching Neighbours, Game of Thrones, Fargo... the difference is that we can choose who our goodies and baddies are. Sport is the telling of stories, over and over again.

I think that Lewis is a bit of a whinger. The interest for me is what he does with his whinge.

[journeyman racer]

we all would like to see fair racing
but it seems one driver is bent on being unfair...namely Nicolol


Same with spa, after he destroys his teammate's race, who btw was leading the race at that moment, and his closest WDC rival, on an on track stupid move that was cynical at best and probably deliberate at worst,
He may've kept his nose a split second longer than ideal, but it was not stupid, cynical or deliberate. If it was deliberate, it would not have been such faint contact. True fans of motorsport/F1 would be more annoyed that such a minor incident had significant consequences. But it's been made clear that you are not one of them. You are indeed a true fan of Hamilton


Nico knows he is no match for Hamilton in a fair fight and thus has resorted to these tacticsYou are embarrassing yourself amongst true fans of motorsport/F1.


nevermind that he has benefitted from some horrendous luck on the part of Hamilton's car, and despite all that was just 11 points ahead.
It's not Nico's fault, Hamilton doesn't have the talent, the composure to handle a deteriorating car, like what Rosberg did at Canada. After all, they both had the same problem occur at the same time!

Or did you mean at Hungary. Where Hamilton's problems in qualifying actually benefitted him in the race. Rosberg was on his way to a win, before the unexpected, early safety car caught him out, and Hamilton took advantage of it.

Or did you mean at Silverstone. Where Rosberg stuffed up on his own in qualifying, ending up on the third row. He clawed his way to second in the race. Hamilton had been leading all the way and would've won, til halfway when his car broke down and Rosberg inherited the win. Silverstone is the only race this year, where the driver leading had a mechanical problem that took him out of the race.


If his car did not break down d in Australia, it would have been 5/5 for hamilton, Rosberg was leading. Hamilton retired early. You don't know what would've happen. You are just making **** up, you true fan of theatre/Hamilton



Now in Spa,...But TBH i have absolutely no faith in Rosberg driving fair or not doing something else stupid that folks here will be quick to defend.
You wrote too much nonsense for me to bother with the rest.

Please! Somebody call the Waaaaaambulance now!

[journeyman racer]

It's hard to argue anything that Truefan72 had to say.Fairly easy, tbh. Rationality is not a strong suit of his. Well it's actually a bit hard. He talks so much...


To me, it's pretty open and shut that you point the car the way you want it to go. I would not think the best way to approach the next corner, which was a left, would be to crank in full right lock. That is, unless your intention was to go to the right, which is where Hamilton was.

lol

Did you know?

Rosberg was turning the wheel right, to negotiate what was still a right hand bend?

Rosberg was running out of road?

There's a head on shot of the incident (all over the internet), right at the moment of impact, showing that both drivers were turning right?

Any other queries?

[Big Ben]

If he can get inside Nico's head he should say more! We want inside stuff not PR speak, use the press to his advantage ;) lol

:laugh: do you actually believe that? it was a freakin' hissy fit :laugh: if anything it's Rosberg playing with Hamilton's head :laugh:

[Big Ben]

If someone can explain to me why Nico straightened up the wheel and then move in towards Lewis I'd happily accept this as an accident as well. If they can't, and no one has so far, then I won't.


Honestly, I doubt anyone can explain that to YOU

[henners88]

:laugh: do you actually believe that? it was a freakin' hissy fit :laugh: if anything it's Rosberg playing with Hamilton's head :laugh:
I think it's both. Rosberg was visibly dismayed by the reaction he got on the podium and the team are extremely unhappy with him. I'd rather be in Hamilton's position trailing in the points than in Rosberg's, the team donkey of Belgium. The dust will settle and these guys will move on, but the relationship is damaged.

Do they all have hissy fits or just Hamilton? It's interesting the use of language when drivers make statements. For drivers we dislike we tend to make it sound more dramatic than it actually was.

You also haven't quoted that transcript yet to back up your view previously on how you perceived Lewis to be 'pathetic' behind the scenes.

[The Black Knight]

Honestly, I doubt anyone can explain that to YOU

Nope, I doubt anyone can explain it to ME either, and the reason for that is just that there is no other explanation than him being a dirty cheat who knows he can't beat Lewis in a straight fight so takes him out of it.

If there's anything good to come out of this, is that it's clear now that Nico the Cheat is afraid of Lewis on track so if they get 7 remaining clean races without Nico cheating and getting away with it again then I don't see any reason why Lewis can't win each one of them.

[The Black Knight]

I think it's both. Rosberg was visibly dismayed by the reaction he got on the podium and the team are extremely unhappy with him. I'd rather be in Hamilton's position trailing in the points than in Rosberg's, the team donkey of Belgium. The dust will settle and these guys will move on, but the relationship is damaged.

Do they all have hissy fits or just Hamilton? It's interesting the use of language when drivers make statements. For drivers we dislike we tend to make it sound more dramatic than it actually was.

You also haven't quoted that transcript yet to back up your view previously on how you perceived Lewis to be 'pathetic' behind the scenes.

Agreed!

They all have hissy fits. Every one of them. Hamilton, Vettel & Rosberg (both particularly prone to them), Alonso, Button. I can't think of any driver that has never had a hissy fit. This is the nature of the beast when you're such a competitive individual. The only one so far I haven't seen having a hissy fit in the top teams is Ricciardo. What a champ he is going to be when his day comes!

[henners88]

Exactly and let's not forget this was heat of the moment stuff and emotions were running high amongst many of the team post race. Toto may have said things he would have preferred to retract, but he was honest in the moment. It is unacceptable to punt your team mate off on the second lap and those who suggest Lewis should have seen in coming are either being negative because of the individual or not understanding how this all works.

[The Black Knight]

Exactly and let's not forget this was heat of the moment stuff and emotions were running high amongst many of the team post race. Toto may have said things he would have preferred to retract, but he was honest in the moment. It is unacceptable to punt your team mate off on the second lap and those who suggest Lewis should have seen in coming are either being negative because of the individual or not understanding how this all works.

Agreed - those that are suggesting Lewis should have seen it coming are also indirectly admitting that Nico is a cheat because they are suggesting it's premeditated and against the rules. Anyway, I still firmly believe Hamilton can win this championship and if there is justice in F1 and I hope there is, he will.

[Big Ben]

I think it's both.

That makes no sense. It can't be a hissy fit and mind games at the same time.



You also haven't quoted that transcript yet to back up your view previously on how you perceived Lewis to be 'pathetic' behind the scenes.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that. I have absolutely no intention to take you seriously on that. However you got it slightly wrong. I perceived Lewis pathetic on scene.

[Big Ben]

Exactly and let's not forget this was heat of the moment stuff and emotions were running high amongst many of the team post race.

Wait a minute, I thought Lewis was just being shrewd and playing mind games with Nico. Now you come and say he was justifiably hysterical?

[Big Ben]

Nope, I doubt anyone can explain it to ME either, and the reason for that is just that there is no other explanation than him being a dirty cheat who knows he can't beat Lewis in a straight fight so takes him out of it.


After words like these I wonder why did they even bother

[henners88]

That makes no sense. It can't be a hissy fit and mind games at the same time.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that. I have absolutely no intention to take you seriously on that. However you got it slightly wrong. I perceived Lewis pathetic on scene.
It can if the anger is used with a known outcome. Lewis would have known as he made the comments that it would upset Rosberg to some degree. It's not complex behavioural science.

Your second point was opinion based on an assumption then. If you had said that in the first place it could have been given the ignorance it deserved from my point of view.


Wait a minute, I thought Lewis was just being shrewd and playing mind games with Nico. Now you come and say he was justifiably hysterical?
Again I think I've answered that. Lewis would have known how damaging his comments could have been. If I argue with somebody and raise my voice, I generally know it will upset them and cause their mood to be affected for a period of time, just for example. Is that hard to understand?

[MacFeegle]

People think Nico on purpose or just accident. There no real proof one way or other way so it up to individual opinion. Yes?

Point 1 - Nico very good Pilot. Make very few mistakes and in F1 mistake almost always cost time, places, results. Very, very rare mistake end up in benefit to that Pilot. Yes?

Nico make 2 'mistake' this year against Lewis and net result is 32 point advantage over Lewis because of 2 'mistakes'.


Point 2 - There 2 very weak points in contact on F1 car. Front wing end plate and tire sidewall. Minimal contact with tire sidewall from end plate usually result in broken end plate and tire puncture. Car drive ok with minimal loss performance with no end plate. Sometimes go faster. Tire puncture mean loss of all track position at minimum at start race.

No risk for Nico as if he take both car out, he still lead by same margin with next race gone.

I no believe in coincidence. I think always need follow money and Nico benefit massively from every time he make mistake? That very suspicious.

[Big Ben]

I no believe in coincidence too. Many fancy words in your text is. Hard to understand weird phrasing in these conditions it is.

[Big Ben]

I've just read what Coulthard had to say on the matter. I was really shocked whose side he took :laugh:. The really funny thing to me is the idea that one driver is entitled to the 'racing line'. They invent silly things like DRS to make overtaking easier and improve the 'show' and then they come up with the imaginary 'racing line'. For some unknown reason one driver is supposed to concede the other this 'racing line'. The only racing line they should acknowledge is the black wide strip of tarmac we call track. If one's to assume that whoever is beside him will just back down and let him take whatever ideal racing line he has in his head than he's taking a risk and should live with the results.

[airshifter]

I'll take that as a submission on your part because you clearly don't know what the reverse of something is.


You've shown you can take any fact and twist is, so the only submission on my part is that it's a waste of time attempting to state an opinion that opposes your own in this situation. You've made it clear that you feel anyone that doesn't agree with your assumptions is wrong in your mind. I find it even more comical when you bring mention of the race card into the discussion as if anyone here would be influenced by the color of Hamiltons skin.



I might add that Doc Austin and a few others think the incident was intentional, but have stated that without attempting to insult anyone else that doesn't agree. People such at that will have opinions respected by me even if I don't agree, as they have shown no bias in their decision.

People that attempt to insult or question others, play the race card, and show a trend of defending certain drivers at all costs openly display their bias in the matter and as such I really don't care much what their opinion is, because they are unable to respect the opinion of others.




I especially liked the part where Alonso, one of the most respected drivers on the grid, just made a mistake, while Nico is the tire assassin for lesser contact. Maybe you'll find someone that falls for that view, but it certainly won't be me. :laugh:

[MacFeegle]

I no believe in coincidence too. Many fancy words in your text is. Hard to understand weird phrasing in these conditions it is.

I sorry Mr Ben but you make fun? Why? What part confuse you and I explain if you not have ability to understand or others with more intelligence may translate :)

[MacFeegle]

I've just read what Coulthard had to say on the matter. I was really shocked whose side he took :laugh:.

I no shocked as DC not always first to see intent :laugh: but I agree that DC defend Nico a bit too much.

[Big Ben]

I sorry Mr Ben but you make fun? Why? What part confuse you and I explain if you not have ability to understand or others with more intelligence may translate :)

I understand but you find those more intelligent people help translate to you what I say they might.

[Bagwan]

It's hard to argue anything that Truefan72 had to say.

To me, it's pretty open and shut that you point the car the way you want it to go. I would not think the best way to approach the next corner, which was a left, would be to crank in full right lock. That is, unless your intention was to go to the right, which is where Hamilton was.

I have always admired the way Vettel won fair and never resorted to chopping, blocking or swerving. That's why it never bothered me that he was dominating. Right now he looks pretty ordinary, but of all of them, he would be the one I would worry about the least when going wheel to wheel. I have never seen him do anything unfair

Over the years I've seen Nico swerve the full width of the straight to block an opponent, so I am not surprised that he finally did something like this. Disappointed, certainly, but not surprised. Senna and then Schumacher drove like that for so long that it's become acceptable.

So now, because of Senna and Schumacher, we have a new generation of drivers who seem to think that anything you can get away with is ok, even if it is potentially deadly.

I can't pretend to know what Nico was thinking, but I also can't imagine where else he thought the car was going to go when he cranked the wheel over toward his teammate. There is no possible excuse for him to have done that. Even if he might contend he was trying to slot in behind, I can't believe a guy who is leading the world championship could misjudge a move on his own teammate/"friend" that damm badly.

Again, the best part of the story could have been the two friends having a sporting duel for the championship. Now it seems we are going to have a friendship ruined and a dirty championship. This is the legacy Senna and Schumacher have left for them.

Doc , you do "point the car the way you want it to go" .
Absolutely true .

Trust between racers is paramount .
Hamilton and his fans are upset that his race was ruined .

What we need to understand is that I believe Nico felt that the only thing he could trust in a situation like this is that Hamilton would assume he would back out , even though he had his wheel at Lewis's sidepod only moments before .
There was absolutely no attempt to even allow for the possibility that Nico would be there .

With that nefariously characterized turn to the right , it set Nico on a reasonable trajectory for completing the turn with Lewis on the inside .
But , simply , Lewis didn't allow for this possibilty only split seconds earlier .
He would have had to lift with , or even before Rosberg had , to make it whilst leaving room for his team mate .

He didn't , and his team mate showed him he can't just assume that any more .

Sure , it was deliberate , but it wasn't meant to take him out .
Nor was it "clumsy" , as it has been called .
That is , unless you count both drivers in on that .

Nico put his car in danger intentionally , as you should be able to do if you can trust your opponent to leave you space to race him , and made the point that Hamilton never had any intention to leave him that space .

[henners88]

Lewis was on the inside of the first part of the chicane, how else was he supposed to leave room? When you are on the inside, you have to take the straightest line through the middle of the 'S'. The only other option would have been to brake harder and lose about 20mph by going right and allowing Rosberg the optimal line. Why would he compromise the chicane for a guy that was behind him and only briefly partially alongside in early braking? The fact of the matter is Lewis had to use the racing line through the corner and Rosberg was expected to realise he had lost the corner about 20 feet further back. Nico was 100% at fault and I can't even entertain how Lewis can pick up any responsibility.

Negotiating a corner at a those speeds demands respect from both drivers and the one on the outside and behind has even more responsibility to not crash into the other guy. We might expect a complete moron like Maldonado to pull a move like that but not an intelligent driver like Nico.

[Doc Austin]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.

Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.

Again, before anyone wants to accuse me of being a "Hamilton fan," I'm also a Nico fan (or was), so I don't really have a prejudice here. I would have certainly much rather have not seen this happen. I would be ok with either driver winning as long as they do it clean.

If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"

Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.

If I run into my teammate by accident, I am on the radio with my engineer immediately telling him to square it away with Lewis' engineer, but none of that from Nico, at least nothing we have heard. If Nico had radioed in he was sorry or admitted a mistake, it is hard to believe Toto and Lauda would have initially been so upset with him.

Watching the team scrambling to sweep this under the rug has been both amusing and revealing. The "Hamilton misinterpreted Nico" statement is utter rubbish. How can you misinterpret "I could have avoided it but did not want to." To me that says you wanted a collision.

The whole "prove a point" thing can be taken many ways, but it is hard to justify "proving a point" to your supposed teammate when Mercedes is spending billions for you to bring the cars home 1 and 2. It's also hard to justify "proving a point" in a potentially deadly situation.

I only have my own opinion and some limited karting and Formula Ford experience to draw from, but I can never remember a time that I turned my wheels at another kart unless I wanted to hit him.

Like Damon Hill insisted, my instinct is to avoid a collision. This does not include turning the wheel toward my opponent. Since the car goes where you point it, what did you think was going to happen?

[zako85]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.


The racing line and who own the corner is not subjective most of the time. In fact, the laws of physics you talk about are irrelevant. For example, the guy who owns the racing line has the right to turn into the car that's diving on the inside, if the inside car is behind by half length or so. Such convention removes the ambiguity. Moreover, you can't even blame that car in front because the driver does not even always see the car behind.




Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.


Yes. Wishful thinking, or perhaps he hoped Hamilton was going to blink. Anyways. Rosberg did try to bail out and give space to Hamilton but his nose was off by a few inches which he needed to clear Hamilton's wheel. Exactly the same type of accident or near accident happens all the time. Very ordinary stuff. Case closed.



If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"


Yes, Rosberg should have apologized for making a mistake.



Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.


You fail to analyze the situation or read the previous posts. Rosberg turned the wheel to stay on track. He would have cleared Hamilton's wheel if he was slightly behind. Yes, this is a racing incident that's caused by Rosberg's misjudgement. Rosberg is a bad team player and should have apologized. Taking the argument further and arguing that collision was intentional is just bonkers as there is no evidence to prove malicious intent and ex ante Rosberg was just as likely to wreck his own car.

[Doc Austin]

In fact, the laws of physics you talk about are irrelevant.

Hamilton's tire and Nico's wing suggest otherwise. No matter what the rules are, two cars can not occupy the same piece of road at the same time.



For example, the guy who owns the racing line has the right to turn into the car that's diving on the inside, if the inside car is behind by half length or so.

I would say the front wing contacting rear wheel would be significantly more behind than half a length. By your own reasoning, it was Hamilton's corner.


Anyways. Rosberg did try to bail out and give space to Hamilton.......

By turning the wheel towards Hamilton?Oddly, my instinct would be to avoid the collision.


You fail to analyze the situation or read the previous posts.

I analyzed it just fine, precisely because I did not let other posts influence what I saw with my own eyes.


Rosberg turned the wheel to stay on track.

Outside of Monoco, when do you ever see a driver put that much lock on the steering wheel? Answer: Just about never. Point the car where you want it to go.

The alternater answer is that Rosberg is a total putz who has no idea what he is doing and is perfectly capable of making such a huge mistake. I'm sure you don't believe that and neither do I.


Taking the argument further and arguing that collision was intentional is just bonkers as there is no evidence to prove malicious intent and ex ante Rosberg was just as likely to wreck his own car.

How else can you interpret "I could have avoided the contact but didn't want to?" If you let something happen, that's not much different from making it happen.

Nico Rosberg immediately blamed Hamilton for the incident, but added that he could have avoided the contact, but didn't want to. He went on to tell Lewis, Toto Wolff, and Paddy Lowe that he allowed the contact to happen in order to 'prove a point.' (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rosberg-admits-he-deliberately-hit-hamilton-to-prove-a-point-mercedes-confirms/?v=2&s=1)

I did not and do not want to believe Nico hit Hamilton on purpose, but when you look at the video and then read Nico lamely trying to explain the incident away, it doesn't add up to just an accident.

[Bagwan]

Hamilton didn't slow to make the corner as Nico did .
Nico was left with no option but to cut the corner .
That's no option but being forced off .

As forcing another driver off is against the rules , Nico , who had his wheel beside Lewis's sidepod , should have had the option to chose to trust that his team mate who knew he was there and try to make the corner , at least at that point .

Not lifting at that point negated the possibility that Lewis could leave room for Nico , and it was that speed that has been seen as the reason he somehow automatically gets to take the racing line , because it surged him ahead at that same point Nico was setting up the corner .

Both had their claim to the corner , and that's why it was deemed not worthy of investigation , as both were guilty of making that claim .

It seems the stewards didn't see Nico as a "cheat" or "dirty" or anything other than a guy involved in a racing incident .
The same with Hamilton , as far as that goes .

They agree with me .

[steveaki13]

This is all very unfortunate in many ways.

Mercedes have a problem as its drivers are fighting and starting to let Ricciardo near

F1 has a problem as the gap in the WDC is now becoming big and threatens the Championship fight. The only 2014 will be a success given the dominance of their cars is if Mercedes have an epic inter team battle.

Also it cause a lot of controversy when the stewards made their decision.

[The Black Knight]

There's been some talk about the "racing line," and who "owns" the corner. These are all subjective things, much like no one can really define "blocking." One thing that is not subjective are the laws of physics, especially the one about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. No matter what you might think the rules are, or how you interpret (or misinterpret) them, you can't put your car on a piece of road that the other car is already on.

Now, where did Nico think his car was going to go? Nico tried to put his car in a space that was already occupied. There s no way he could have possibly misjudged it so badly that he thought he was not going to hit Hamilton.

Again, before anyone wants to accuse me of being a "Hamilton fan," I'm also a Nico fan (or was), so I don't really have a prejudice here. I would have certainly much rather have not seen this happen. I would be ok with either driver winning as long as they do it clean.

If this was simply an accident, there would not have been the exchange of trash talk we are seeing. If Nico really did make a mistake, he could have just said so, and maybe been a little contrite, or pretended to be. Instead, he has been defiant. If he really made a mistake and took his teammate out, wouldn't he have at least said a little something about being sorry, or at least saying he did not mean to do it? Or at least said it was "unfortunate?"

Sure, he said it was a "racing incident," but that's not very convincing. It's like saying "that's racing," or "I did not have sex with that woman." Then again, it is hard to explain why you would turn the wheel toward your teammate, so if Nico offers no explanation, at least he is not outright lying.

If I run into my teammate by accident, I am on the radio with my engineer immediately telling him to square it away with Lewis' engineer, but none of that from Nico, at least nothing we have heard. If Nico had radioed in he was sorry or admitted a mistake, it is hard to believe Toto and Lauda would have initially been so upset with him.

Watching the team scrambling to sweep this under the rug has been both amusing and revealing. The "Hamilton misinterpreted Nico" statement is utter rubbish. How can you misinterpret "I could have avoided it but did not want to." To me that says you wanted a collision.

The whole "prove a point" thing can be taken many ways, but it is hard to justify "proving a point" to your supposed teammate when Mercedes is spending billions for you to bring the cars home 1 and 2. It's also hard to justify "proving a point" in a potentially deadly situation.

I only have my own opinion and some limited karting and Formula Ford experience to draw from, but I can never remember a time that I turned my wheels at another kart unless I wanted to hit him.

Like Damon Hill insisted, my instinct is to avoid a collision. This does not include turning the wheel toward my opponent. Since the car goes where you point it, what did you think was going to happen?


Excellent post!

I used to do a lot of racing when I was a kid until a car traffic accident curtailed my career, but I never turned in on another driver like that unless I wanted to do damage to his race. If I wanted to hit a guy to prove a point, as only a stupid kid would do, then I would hit his rear to spin him around. I remember one time I drove into a chicane side by side with a guy in karting who had ruined my race the week before, much similar to Nico and Lewis yesterday and I swerved into his rear tire. Now, guess what? I did it on purpose and hit him exactly where I wanted to hit him, he spun and I went on to win the race. You only make this kind of move if you want to hurt a guys race. The difference between me and Nico is that I was a stupid kid, Nico should know better but clearly he doesn't. In karts we were driving 1/2 the speed these guys are driving at. It's too risky to do things like this at that level.

[Big Ben]

I used to do a lot of racing myself. I remember one time I was on a straight just before a right-left chicane with this other kid having the front half of his kart side by side with mine. And I was thinking I'm so hungry and I have big balls and this other guy is a wuss. he always backs down and lets me have my way. I'm gonna take his sandwich from him when we're done with this... I'm hungrier than him... and then I turned left and then right like there was no one beside me. well, this time he he didn't back down and I lost and he went on and stuck it to me and I threw a hissy fit bla bla bla. Now I'm older I know I was such a retard back then.

Just my own personal made up similar story to prove a point

[Big Ben]

and no henners... I don't have videos of black night's entire life to prove anything

[journeyman racer]

F1 has a problem as the gap in the WDC is now becoming big and threatens the Championship fight. There is no problem.


The only 2014 will be a success given the dominance of their cars is if Mercedes have an epic inter team battle.
What do you mean "only"? There are other points of interest for "the fans". Few races have been processional, a lot have held interest. If nothing else, this season has been a success due to Ricciardo elevating himself this season.

[henners88]

and no henners... I don't have videos of black night's entire life to prove anything

I worked that out early on.

[Bagwan]

I used to do a lot of racing myself. I remember one time I was on a straight just before a right-left chicane with this other kid having the front half of his kart side by side with mine. And I was thinking I'm so hungry and I have big balls and this other guy is a wuss. he always backs down and lets me have my way. I'm gonna take his sandwich from him when we're done with this... I'm hungrier than him... and then I turned left and then right like there was no one beside me. well, this time he he didn't back down and I lost and he went on and stuck it to me and I threw a hissy fit bla bla bla. Now I'm older I know I was such a retard back then.

Just my own personal made up similar story to prove a point

I saw that race , and that clumsy overtake move by that low-life cheater who ran into you was just too much to take , and he should have been sat out of the championship for at least four years .
You had divine right to that corner , and his sandwich !

[The Black Knight]

I used to do a lot of racing myself. I remember one time I was on a straight just before a right-left chicane with this other kid having the front half of his kart side by side with mine. And I was thinking I'm so hungry and I have big balls and this other guy is a wuss. he always backs down and lets me have my way. I'm gonna take his sandwich from him when we're done with this... I'm hungrier than him... and then I turned left and then right like there was no one beside me. well, this time he he didn't back down and I lost and he went on and stuck it to me and I threw a hissy fit bla bla bla. Now I'm older I know I was such a retard back then.

Just my own personal made up similar story to prove a point

You turned left and then right into a right left chicane?

Anyway, this was a left right chicane so we're talking about different events. And The same guy is my best friend still 20 years later. We were speaking about this incident only last night and comparing it to Nico & Lewis. I had forgotten about it until he reminded me. Thing is though, I was never a wuss so he always knew I would not give in unless I had no other choice.

Back to the story at hand, it shows you can judge these things. This with a 125 kart, but you always know if you are going to hit something or not. If Nico came out and admitted he made a mistake and was sorry straight after the race I'd have been more inclined to believe it was an accident but his attitude after the race and refusal to say sorry just adds weight to his guilt.

And I'm not sure why he feels aggrieved over Bahrain either, if that is the case, he was the one that used settings on his car that Mercedes said they couldn't to try and overtake Lewis.

[555-04Q2]

Sadly this is the case.

He is just always involved. Which is a problem

Yeah, he is fast becoming the Eddie Irvine on the 21st century :shock:

I've lost count of the number of incidents he's been involved in over the last few years.

[The Black Knight]

we all would like to see fair racing
but it seems one driver is bent on being unfair...namely Nico

so to me it is laughable that after monaco people say "it is what it is, stop whining Hamilton" let it happen on the track
knowing full well that monaco is impossible to pass with equal machinery. and anything short of a suicide divebomb ( like spa oddly enough) would be ridiculous to both team and driver

that was an "on track situation"

Same with spa, after he destroys his teammate's race, who btw was leading the race at that moment, and his closest WDC rival, on an on track stupid move that was cynical at best and probably deliberate at worst, folks like you are now saying " i wish hamilton would shut up and just race ,and have it decided on the track"
Well that is what he bloody well is trying to do, isn't it???

Nico knows he is no match for Hamilton in a fair fight and thus has resorted to these tactics
nevermind that he has benefitted from some horrendous luck on the part of Hamilton's car, and despite all that was just 11 points ahead.

If his car did not break down d in Australia, it would have been 5/5 for hamilton, and lets remember that monaco incident happened right after Hamilton won 4 in a row and was looking good for pole in Monaco and Nico did what he did to stop that momentum.

Now in Spa, hamilton beat him off the line in the start and Nico did what he did to stop him. I'm not sure what point he was trying to prove. Because the hungarian GP situation was ridiculous at all levels and the team acknowledged that afterwards. Being slower than his teammate and championship rival, not being able to be close enough to make a pass then whining and asking the team to have him pass him was just dumb. So if he was angry about that situation then he must be nuts that his championship rival won't slow down and let him pass so he can win the race and put him further ahead in points.

To me it seems like there is one driver trying to win his races and perform fairly and there is another guy who has [/B]a complete sense of undeserved entitlement (Nico) [/B] who is trying to win the championship unfairly.

I have stayed quiet over the pas few days just to observe and see where this conversation would go in these forums, and like a few others, tend to agree that the dislike for Hamilton, for whatever reason, seems to cloud many here in their opinion. Because I shudder to think about the vitriol and record breaking thread counts that would have happened crucifying hamilton if the situation were in reverse.

All you have to see is how folks responded in 2011 when he got into several racing incidents with massa and webber. Most poignantly how many were quick to blame him for all contacts with massa, and then defended webber in singapore despite turning into hamilton.

So lets see if monza can be a "fair race" and see what happens. With 8 races to go it will be tough, but I still think hamilton can do it.
But TBH i have absolutely no faith in Rosberg driving fair or not doing something else stupid that folks here will be quick to defend.

You know, I've heard this applied to a lot of Germans!

[Doc Austin]

And I'm not sure why he feels aggrieved over Bahrain either, if that is the case, he was the one that used settings on his car that Mercedes said they couldn't to try and overtake Lewis.

Apparently Hamilton used the same setting to keep Nico behind at Spain, so that's a wash.

If I remember correctly, Rosberg was all smiles after Baharain, and talking about how much fun it was and how he hoped the fans enjoyed it. It would seem hard to believe he holds any grudges from that.

I think at this point we have to wait and see what Nico does next time it is wheel to wheel with Hamilton.

When Senna swerved on Prost and almost put him into the pit wall in Portugal (89?), we were all shocked, but did not want to believe he would do anything like that again, which of course he did. After a few more of those, all doubt was removed that Senna intended to play fair.

The same thing with Schumacher taking Hill out at Adelaide in 94. There was a shred of doubt that maybe he did not do it on purpose, but then the chopping, blocking and swerving started, culminating in "deliberate, but instinctual" at Jerez in '97 when he tried to take out Villeneuve. After that, there was no giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.

With Nico, maybe his Monoco gaffe was for real. Maybe he really did not mean to hit Lewis at Spa, though he admitted he did not try to miss him either. To me, one of those is as good as the other, but I think we can now sit back and see what he does next. If Nico can race clean, maybe he was innocent of all these things, but if he does it again, I don't believe he deserves any more benefit of the doubt.

[steveaki13]

What do you mean "only"? There are other points of interest for "the fans". Few races have been processional, a lot have held interest. If nothing else, this season has been a success due to Ricciardo elevating himself this season.

Hey I know that.

Plenty though of "Casual fans" will think this a dull season, given the Mercedes dominance generally if the title is sewn up 4 rounds before the end.

[Big Ben]

You turned left and then right into a right left chicane?

Yeah, sure. Why not? There's plenty of supernatural stuff I could do in my imaginary memories

[The Black Knight]

Apparently Hamilton used the same setting to keep Nico behind at Spain, so that's a wash.

If I remember correctly, Rosberg was all smiles after Baharain, and talking about how much fun it was and how he hoped the fans enjoyed it. It would seem hard to believe he holds any grudges from that.

I think at this point we have to wait and see what Nico does next time it is wheel to wheel with Hamilton.

When Senna swerved on Prost and almost put him into the pit wall in Portugal (89?), we were all shocked, but did not want to believe he would do anything like that again, which of course he did. After a few more of those, all doubt was removed that Senna intended to play fair.

The same thing with Schumacher taking Hill out at Adelaide in 94. There was a shred of doubt that maybe he did not do it on purpose, but then the chopping, blocking and swerving started, culminating in "deliberate, but instinctual" at Jerez in '97 when he tried to take out Villeneuve. After that, there was no giving the guy the benefit of the doubt.

With Nico, maybe his Monoco gaffe was for real. Maybe he really did not mean to hit Lewis at Spa, though he admitted he did not try to miss him either. To me, one of those is as good as the other, but I think we can now sit back and see what he does next. If Nico can race clean, maybe he was innocent of all these things, but if he does it again, I don't believe he deserves any more benefit of the doubt.

Well yeah, so They are both guilty of that! I do know Nico said Hamilton pushed his luck in one incident after Bahrain - but that overall he was happy with the race. I honestly think people are making too much out of Bahrain. This incident I don't believe started there. It started after Hammy won 4 in a row. When Nico realized he couldn't beat Hamilton in out and out pace. Strange how that mistake came at just te right time for him eh? Tbh, both incidents are pretty clear to me. Up until Monaco I really didn't care which guy won the championship. It's very clear that Rosberg did that on purpose so to me, after that, I'm in Hamilton's corner. I don't want a cheat as a WDC.

[zako85]

Hamilton's tire and Nico's wing suggest otherwise. No matter what the rules are, two cars can not occupy the same piece of road at the same time.


No one is arguing against that. Only one car can be in the same place. But if an accident does happen, the car behind may have to eat the blame as the car in front should have the right to the corner. If the car from behind plows into it, the car behind may be penalized. Perhaps Rosberg should have been penalized. Who knows what logic F1 used there. Perhaps considering that the cars barely clipped, the FIA officials decided that Rosberg made a small mistake (but with big consequences).




I would say the front wing contacting rear wheel would be significantly more behind than half a length. By your own reasoning, it was Hamilton's corner.



That's right. If there was someone responsible for the collision, it was Rosberg. However, that doesn't prove the malicious intent to plow into Hamilton.




By turning the wheel towards Hamilton?Oddly, my instinct would be to avoid the collision.


Rosberg simply misjudged how far ahead his front wing was. A couple of inches of space may have allowed him to clear Hamilton's wheels without contact.



Nico Rosberg immediately blamed Hamilton for the incident, but added that he could have avoided the contact, but didn't want to. He went on to tell Lewis, Toto Wolff, and Paddy Lowe that he allowed the contact to happen in order to 'prove a point.' (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rosberg-admits-he-deliberately-hit-hamilton-to-prove-a-point-mercedes-confirms/?v=2&s=1)

Please do not use third party quotes as the proof of what Rosberg said privately, specially from Hamilton who is not an impartial party.

And by the way, Alain Prost in an interview to f1news.ru states his personal opinion on the incident, making all the same points I have been mentioning. Summary:

1. This was a racing incident
2. Every weekend we see similar incidents
3. Rosberg turned towards Hamilton's car to stay on track
4. The driver does not see the big front wing from the cockpit well
5. Rosberg misjudged the situation when he turned his car towards Hamilton's car.
6. Rosberg was just as likely to cause serious damage to his own car as he could lose his wing, puncture tire, etc.

If you don't believe, run this through a translator:

http://www.f1news.ru/interview/prost/97165.shtml

[Doc Austin]

Please do not use third party quotes as the proof of what Rosberg said privately, specially from Hamilton who is not an impartial party.

If you click on the quote, it will take you to the article that contains the quote. That is a direct copy/paste of text from the article.

Here is the direct link (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rosberg-admits-he-deliberately-hit-hamilton-to-prove-a-point-mercedes-confirms/?v=2&s=1)

I was just quoting the article on Motorsports.com, which I believe is probably a credible source.

From there people can make up their minds if the article and the quote have any credibility or not. Perhaps it is done differently here, but this is a perfectly acceptable literary technique at the forum I posted at before coming here. There when we made claims, we were expected to provide links that prove our position, and that's what I did.

The exact title of the article is "Rosberg admits he deliberately hit Hamilton to 'prove a point' - Mercedes confirms" So, if Mercedes is confirming this, either it is true or Motorsports,com all of it wrong got it wrong. The article is still there, so I'm guessing that Motorsports.com probably stands by it.

[Bagwan]

Why did Nico choose the words he did ?
If we take Hamilton's version , as confirmed by the team as correct , "I could have avoided it." , we also need to note that it mentions that Rosberg put the blame on Hamilton first off .
Nico is saying he set up for the corner , and Hamilton never intended to allow for this possibility .
He was not backing out , and the stewards must have agreed that he had the right to do what he did .

The team also said that it was rubbish that Nico deliberately took Lewis off .
Some here are forgetting that important piece of info .


Merc are quite right to be angry at Nico .
He did "prove a point" with what he did .

But , perhaps he might have done it in a less aggravating way , like talking about it in a team meeting .
Oh , that's right , Lewis said they had had a meeting before the race where Nico came in all angry about the last race , and Lewis dismissed the ire , saying he couldn't believe Nico was still on about all that stuff in the past .

There are two drivers involved here , and both were deemed at fault .

[The Black Knight]

I laugh at some people here and how they somehow feel an incident that happened 4 weeks previous, of which Nico The Cheat had no right to feel aggrieved by anyway, is somehow used as a justification for another incident 4 weeks later. If Nico the Cheat was fuming about Hungary 4 weeks later after looking back at the race and listening to the radio excerpts then he really is a tool. Lewis did the right thing, as confirmed by the team and anyone that isn't trying to make the whole story into a sensation, by saying he'd allow him through but he had to get close enough. Lewis was fighting Alonso and Ricciardo, he couldn't afford to lose 1.5 seconds while waiting for Nico the Cheat to pass and Nico the Cheat simply wasn't able to close the gap. It's as straight forward and down the line as it gets and I personally feel Lewis acted appropriately as do the rest of the Mercedes management and F1 world.

Fast forward 4 weeks, if after looking at the footage he still felt aggrieved and had been stewing on it then he really is an awful tool. It's not Lewis's role to go over to Nico the Cheat and pat him on the back and say "Do you feel aggrieved my dear German schmuck? Oh you poor little thing. Let me get a fresh nappy and Kleenex for you". It's up to Nico the Cheat to cry a river, build a bridge and get the fuck over it. Be a man, just like Lewis has done with this by saying he will not retaliate on Nico the Cheat.

If he really does win this WDC it really will be the most deserving title in many, many years considering all the obstacles he's had to come through. All he has to do is have the points gap less than 13 in Abu Dhabi. Given his amazing ability around AD I have no doubt he'll take the title there should Nico the Cheat still be leading and send that spoiled little German back home to Monaco to cry about it to Keke.

[driveace]

Well said ! With the facts too
Nico never got over Hungary ,he was not near enough by a country mile to expect Lewis to slow and let him pass ! He moaned"Why is he not letting me pass" You thick tool,You were at NO time near enough to try a pass ! If it has been on his mind for the last 4 weeks ,then he is a spoilt brat !!!
He was seething at Spa that he was SO slow away ,and was overtaken by TWO cars ,the horns were protruding through his helmet and the "Red Mist" appeared ,he knew as sure as shit is shit ,there was NO way past Lewis if he got away and 4 seconds in front,so he took him out !! He cheated at Monaco,we all know that now ,and gets away with it ,then cheats in Spa and gets away with it again .Can i please borrow his Rosary Beads Rosberg ,as some body .,besides Mercedes is on his shoulder !! But then again a famous Brazilian (Bless Him ) ,thought HE had the lord on his shoulder too

[The Black Knight]

So, as predicted, Nico the Cheat gets away with it:

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173017.html

Issues empty apology that means nothing:

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173031.html

[journeyman racer]

Let me get a fresh nappy and Kleenex for you".
It's not Rosberg that needs the fresh nappy and Kleenex. ;)

[The Black Knight]

It's not Rosberg that needs the fresh nappy and Kleenex. ;)

Hahaha ;)

[SGWilko]

This is what has happened; http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115620


Furthermore, it emerged that Rosberg accepted blame for the crash with Hamilton, and apologised.

[henners88]

An acceptance of blame is all any of us expected or wanted. Credit to Nico for that I think. Not sure what disciplinary action they could have taken apart from fining him a few weeks wages. None of it is going to give Hamilton the points he lost back so it's best to move on and hope the gap can once again be closed. It'll be quite bitter at the end if the season if it can't I think but for now they need to focus and forget it IMO.

[donKey jote]

Nico The Cheat Nico the Cheat Nico the Cheat Nico the Cheat Nico the Cheat German schmuck Nico the Cheat to cry a river, build a bridge and get the fuck over it Nico the Cheat.
Nico the Cheat spoiled little German back home to Monaco to cry about it to Keke.
:yawn:
how about applying at last some of your post to yourself :dozey:

[Bagwan]

Lewis said this :
"Nico and I accept that we have both made mistakes and I feel it would be wrong to point fingers and say which one is worse than the other. "

That's what the stewards said , too , basically .

[Doc Austin]

Let's see if Nico can race clean from here on out.

[truefan72]

Let's see if Nico can race clean from here on out.

doubtful

[Bagwan]

So , the stewards didn't see evil .
Then Merc said he didn't take Lewis out deliberately .
Then , even Lewis said they both made mistakes .

And , Nico is still an evil cheater who's likely to do more evil by the end of the year ?

Jeez , you guys .
Just string him up and be done with it .

[truefan72]

yeah and for those who spent countless posts trying to rationalize an obvious and deliberate punt by Nico can now hopefully come back to reality and do as Nico did
https://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-rosberg-apologises-disciplined-hamilton-crash-121903028--f1.html

accept they were wrong.

To have to endure pages upon pages of weak arguments about it being a "racing incident" and others trying to imply that Hamilton did not leave enough room, when clear video evidence showed the deliberate turn in and plenty of options for Rosberg, as well as those who simply refused to believe Nico's own words after the race last sunday, this bit of news restores some sanity to the whole situation.

Now, it still doesn't take away from the massive points haul he has gained from the situation, and Hamilton was right to say that he was going to get (and got) off with a slap on the wrist. This is now 2 clear cases of Nico being less than ethical in his pursuit for the WDC and i fear we will see another one before the end of the season.

I hope we get clean fair racing with no more mechanical issues for Hamilton. If that were to happen, he would stand a good chance of overhauling this deficit.


btw

as to Nico's penalty, As far as i am concerned the only fair thing would have been for Mercedes to make him sit out qualy in the next race. and start from the back of the grid or the pitlane.
Or make him come into the pits on the first lap and hold him 20 seconds, which would somewhat restore the balance and advantage that was taken away from Hamilton in spa.
At least Nico would still have a perfectly good car in tact and work his way up the grid. Something Hamilton did not have with his damaged car. But it would go a long way to restore the disadvantage.

[Doc Austin]

as to Nico's penalty, As far as i am concerned the only fair thing would have been fro them to make hims it out qualy in the next race. and start from the back of the grid or the pitlane.

The problem with penalizing Nico is that it makes him vulnerable to Ricciardo. points wise. Remember, if Nico has a bad result, that also affects the constructor's championship too.

I think the fairest thing to do is make Nico support Hamilton until Lewis gets Sunday's lost points back. If Nico does not want to support the team's decision, then they can set him down. From that perspective, he is better off taking second place points than missing a race or starting at the rear.

Then make them take turns winning until both championship are out of the other team's reach. From there, they can punt each other off every race if they want to.

[Bagwan]

The problem with penalizing Nico is that they BOTH have acknowledged making mistakes that led to the crash .

That is the real problem with penalizing Nico .

Nico deliberately put his nose in , and Hamilton deliberately took it off , if you want it bluntly .

And , they BOTH said it wouldn't happen again .

[Doc Austin]

And , they BOTH said it wouldn't happen again .

Do you believe that?

[Bagwan]

Do you believe that?

Of course not , Doc . Of course not .

But , what it means is that are both taking responsibility in the incident , and they both understand they need to work together at the same time as looking after their own interests .

They'll undoubtedly meet again on track , even though the team may try to keep them apart to some degree .
When they do , it may all come to tears again , but it won't as likely to be just to prove a point .
The point was made .
And , both drivers had to say a few words , not just Nico .

They've left each other room before , and produced some great moments , so I'm sure they can both be fairer to each other .




And , hey , if it gets ugly again , it'll just give us more to debate .
Roll on , Monza .

[steveaki13]

And , hey , if it gets ugly again , it'll just give us more to debate .
Roll on , Monza .

Ultimately this

[steveaki13]

Whatever view you have, it gets F1 going when we have something like this.

[Doc Austin]

If they were puttering about in formation 2 seconds a lap clear of everyone how much fun would that be?

[henners88]

Lewis said this :
"Nico and I accept that we have both made mistakes and I feel it would be wrong to point fingers and say which one is worse than the other. "

That's what the stewards said , too , basically .

'We've both made mistakes' doesn't necessarily mean Lewis is accepting any fault in the Spa incident. To mean it suggests this season as a whole and they are looking at the wider picture.

Having read that quote it I didn't interpret it the same as yourself. It doesn't support the Lewis didn't leave enough room argument because it's worded too loosely. They've both been pushing each other off track all season and I think it refers to mistakes made so far.

[truefan72]

'We've both made mistakes' doesn't necessarily mean Lewis is accepting any fault in the Spa incident. To mean it suggests this season as a whole and they are looking at the wider picture.

Having read that quote it I didn't interpret it the same as yourself. It doesn't support the Lewis didn't leave enough room argument because it's worded too loosely. They've both been pushing each other off track all season and I think it refers to mistakes made so far.

yup, well said

and this should further clear things up

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173031.html
Rosberg issues apology to Hamilton, Mercedes and fans

But I'm sure some guys on this forum will still try and twist it into Hamilton being equally to blame lol
nevermind that Rosberg has been punished for the incident
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173017.html

[journeyman racer]

Yawn.

[Bagwan]

'We've both made mistakes' doesn't necessarily mean Lewis is accepting any fault in the Spa incident. To mean it suggests this season as a whole and they are looking at the wider picture.

Having read that quote it I didn't interpret it the same as yourself. It doesn't support the Lewis didn't leave enough room argument because it's worded too loosely. They've both been pushing each other off track all season and I think it refers to mistakes made so far.

Exactly to what it refers is nebulous , and I believe it was intended as such , so as not to open the discussion of specifics .
And , that's ok , simply because this , and Nico's statement were attempts by both to end the speculation .

What is very clear , though , is that there are still many people pointing fingers at Nico , despite Lewis stating it is wrong .


One of Nico's strengths in this was also perhaps one of the things that had him beaten up a bit more than he might have been .
His insistence that he keep the opinions between himself and the team has hurt him here .

With no juicy quotes out there to counter , Nico was generally flailed in the press and on message boards like this one , called a "clumsy cheater" .


Lewis refers to Nico having made "mistakes" , and not clumsy cheating .
He's not saying "He hit me on purpose" any more .


Nico , I believe , fully understands that putting his car where he did to make his point was not the best course of action .
He went for the apex knowing full well that Lewis would do the same .

Not pointing fingers suggests that Lewis got the point .

[Doc Austin]

But I'm sure some guys on this forum will still try and twist it into Hamilton being equally to blame lol
nevermind that Rosberg has been punished for the incident
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173017.html


The statement added that "suitable disciplinary measures have been taken for the incident", although details were not given.

In other words, probably nothing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

yup, well said

and this should further clear things up

http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173031.html
Rosberg issues apology to Hamilton, Mercedes and fans

But I'm sure some guys on this forum will still try and twist it into Hamilton being equally to blame lol
nevermind that Rosberg has been punished for the incident
http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173017.html

So Rosberg has been blackmailed into an apology andI find it interesting that Rosberg is punished for what even Hamilton's main brown-noser Lauda called a 'racing incident'. Yet disobeying team orders in Hungary and leaking team internals to the press at Spa by Hamilton weren't quite worthy of 'disciplinary action'. They basically sent Nico a letter: 'Sorry Nico, we can't allow you to win the title and we will make sure you don't'. That's all this is about.

[Doc Austin]

So Rosberg has been blackmailed into an apology andI find it interesting that Rosberg is punished for what even Hamilton's main brown-noser Lauda called a 'racing incident'.

Now, they are calling it a "racing incident," but that is nothing more than a fall back position. You might remember that initially both Lauda and Wolff were furious with Rosberg.

This is exactly what I said would happen from the first day in post #7:.

Check This Out (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?34507-Whats-going-to-Happen-at-Mercedes&p=1011062&viewfull=1#post1011062)


They are putting on the happy face and pretending everything is fine, but it's hard to believe they see it as a "racing incident" in light of how big of a stink it made and the fact they had to do something about it.


Yet disobeying team orders in Hungary and leaking team internals to the press at Spa by Hamilton weren't quite worthy of 'disciplinary action'.

Both of these guys have been disobeying team orders almost from the beginning. Both used the wrong engine maps against team orders, Hamilton would not move over in Hungary, etc. There is probably even more stuff we don't know about. If you add in Rosberg's "mistake" at Monoco and the supposed "racing incident" at Spa, both drivers have been behaving pretty badly.


They basically sent Nico a letter: 'Sorry Nico, we can't allow you to win the title and we will make sure you don't'. That's all this is about.

With the money and work that is on the line here, Mercedes would be crazed to do anything that would affect Nico's chances. Once both championships are put away, maybe, but at least for right now, Nico is 29 points into the championship lead. They would be out of their minds to do anything but give him everything they have.

It's a too little early for Mercedes to to shoot themselves in both feet, though I have every confidence they will eventually do so.

[truefan72]

Yawn.

a likely response from someone who has no leg to stand on and can;t even man up and accept that from Mercedes GP and Nico, wrongdoing was accpeted and punished.
oh well, it was to be expected.

[henners88]

So Rosberg has been blackmailed into an apology andI find it interesting that Rosberg is punished for what even Hamilton's main brown-noser Lauda called a 'racing incident'. Yet disobeying team orders in Hungary and leaking team internals to the press at Spa by Hamilton weren't quite worthy of 'disciplinary action'. They basically sent Nico a letter: 'Sorry Nico, we can't allow you to win the title and we will make sure you don't'. That's all this is about.
Well there is two scenarios with this one. Either Nico felt after reviewing the incident that he was to blame and took responsibility for it. Or he accepted blame because the team wanted him to. I know how strongly you feel about drivers obeying the team as you made clear after Hungary, so I'm surprised you'd have an issue with scenario two even if that was the case. It was pretty clear cut to me and I think most drivers would hold their hands up after that one.

[airshifter]

So , the stewards didn't see evil .
Then Merc said he didn't take Lewis out deliberately .
Then , even Lewis said they both made mistakes .

And , Nico is still an evil cheater who's likely to do more evil by the end of the year ?

Jeez , you guys .
Just string him up and be done with it .


Come to your senses Bagwan. Pick a side, declare the other side intentional and extreme evil and roll with that angle at all costs. Claim that anyone that thinks otherwise is wrong, point fingers, scream and shout, and jump up and down. Create a silly and childish name such as Nico the Cheater or Lewis the Loser and put it in a post or ten, using it over and over to try to make a point.

If you are capable, embellish your view even more by stating that admitting responsibility for the accident is also admitting deliberate contact or even attempted murder. Death by Mercedes F1 as some would claim, was the ultimate goal.


Or do as you have done and make your own decision on the matter. That's what I've done too, as I can't even convince myself to be part of the drama. :)

None of the articles or quotes have changed my opinion on anything, nor do I think they have proven anything other than the fact that Nico admits having some fault in the matter. The other driver that didn't give an inch either still seems to take the attitude of no fault, which I personally don't believe for a second. Nor did the stewards obviously.

At the end of it all we have two drivers racing each other very hard for the title, and they will probably continue to do so. But it appears now that if they destroy a car or two, Mercedes will slap them on the wrist. And personally I'm glad that Mercedes is letting them race so hard. I want this battle on track to continue.


Having said that, from the start I felt Lewis would win on track. Though he has had some car failures that gave Nico an edge, overall he is still ahead on track IMO, but at this point might need some luck to win the title. But my respect for Nico is growing, even after I admitted to under rating him in the past. He is managing to get in Lewis's head, and that is where Lewis often fails himself. I honestly feel at this point Lewis is a capable enough driver to still overcome the points deficit and win the title, but if and only if, he can get his head straight. If he keeps up the whining and pointing fingers, Nico is going to continue to beat him down and Lewis may well fall to the point where Ricciardo has a shot at the number 2 spot in the WDC.




And once again for the record, I respect the opinion of Doc Austin and a couple others that thought/think the contact was deliberate, even though I don't agree myself. I respect those opinions because they appear to be made without bias to either side and they looked at the incident, not the drivers, in making their decisions.

Those that have blindly defended Lewis over and over have, as usual IMO, simply blindly defended him once again. And if Lewis doesn't get his act together and clear his head, they will be chanting "Cheater Nico, Cheater Nico!" when Nico is crowned the WDC.

[henners88]

To be fair I can't remember a time when Bagwan hasn't sided against Hamilton on any incident. There have been many over the years too. He has made out both are to blame in this latest incident but the emphasis was put on Lewis with the support going to Nico for making a point. That is no different to some of the more biased Hamilton fans here claiming Nico is a cheat IMO. We are all biased to a degree and Bagwan is no different.

I put 100% blame on Nico but stated I felt it was a misjudgment rather than deliberate action. None of this is going to re-pay Lewis with points which is what he needs.

[journeyman racer]

Hamiltonites have shown no tact. Spoilt the threads. Bagwan may be biased against Hamilton. But it's not as draining as reading TBK and (not really a) truefan posts. It is quite a lot different.

[Bagwan]

To be fair I can't remember a time when Bagwan hasn't sided against Hamilton on any incident. There have been many over the years too. He has made out both are to blame in this latest incident but the emphasis was put on Lewis with the support going to Nico for making a point. That is no different to some of the more biased Hamilton fans here claiming Nico is a cheat IMO. We are all biased to a degree and Bagwan is no different.

I put 100% blame on Nico but stated I felt it was a misjudgment rather than deliberate action. None of this is going to re-pay Lewis with points which is what he needs.

I try my hardest to look objectively at every situation .
Maybe I fail sometimes , henners , but I do try .

I arrived at this particular discussion , having seen the moment , heard the commentators , read a few articles , and then the comments here , and almost all and sundry were down on Nico .
I had almost dismissed it by the end of the race as something they'd have hard words about in the motorhome , and the stewards agreed , with no formal investigation seen as warranted .

So , as usual , the devil's advocate in me , took over .

That's where I often seem to sit in the Hamilton saga .
My emphasis on Lewis here is just that , my friend , as it often is .
My support for Nico's point , is a counter-point , as is a lot of my posting when Lewis is involved .
Both played their part in this .


I don't think Nico feels any real remorse here , though he did apologize .
I'd be interested to know if that was the only punishment . I saw one article that intimated that there was a six figure fine involved , but have seen no corroboration of that .

The fact that both came out to make speeches says that there is a greater understanding between the two , but both are just as hungry .


It's just a wee touch ironic , though , that you say I am siding with Nico , when I am advocating not pointing fingers , which is exactly what Lewis says I should be doing .

[Bagwan]

Hamiltonites have shown no tact. Spoilt the threads. Bagwan may be biased against Hamilton. But it's not as draining as reading TBK and (not really a) truefan posts. It is quite a lot different.

That's just nasty , dude .
And , not true .

I thank you for the compliment , as not being "draining" is quite an accolade , but go easy on those mass generalizations , at least when using my name as an example .

This thread isn't spoiled . it's just fine .

I appreciate being defended , but if we throw rocks , we can expect others throw rocks too .


Debate , dude .

[The Black Knight]

Hamiltonites have shown no tact. Spoilt the threads. Bagwan may be biased against Hamilton. But it's not as draining as reading TBK and (not really a) truefan posts. It is quite a lot different.

It can be draining alright when you're trying to defend something that was undefendable and deliberate. Actually, if you look back at my posts over the years, I try and stay neutral enough and have no problem putting my hand up when Hamilton makes a mistake but after Monaco this year, along with some of the absurd arguments in this thread from people whom try and make out that they are level headed when trying to defend a blatantly obvious move by one opponent to take out the other, I decided to take the gloves off.

As for Bagwan, I stopped paying attention to his posts years ago. I've really no interest in reading a post of a user that comes along and intentionally tries to offer a different slant on opinion just for the sake of trying to be different, opposed to actually taking the facts at hand and rolling with them.

[airshifter]

To be fair I can't remember a time when Bagwan hasn't sided against Hamilton on any incident. There have been many over the years too. He has made out both are to blame in this latest incident but the emphasis was put on Lewis with the support going to Nico for making a point. That is no different to some of the more biased Hamilton fans here claiming Nico is a cheat IMO. We are all biased to a degree and Bagwan is no different.

I put 100% blame on Nico but stated I felt it was a misjudgment rather than deliberate action. None of this is going to re-pay Lewis with points which is what he needs.

I've never noticed anything I consider bias towards or against Hamilton from Bagwan myself, but I do think he is quicker to admit faults in all drivers when he sees them. I relate to this as well, and in similar fashion play devil's advocate at times. And really to me in this instance, there is nothing but a fine line between what you found and what Bagwan found, and both of your opinions are quite distanced from the view that it was deliberate and using the car as a weapon. Just my observation....





Hamiltonites have shown no tact. Spoilt the threads. Bagwan may be biased against Hamilton. But it's not as draining as reading TBK and (not really a) truefan posts. It is quite a lot different.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees a large difference in this case.

But I will differ in that from my point of view, no thread is spoiled by opposing opinions. It's most often when people act with great bias (either in defense of or to attack a specific driver) that things really get derailed. Most of the time those heated instances as created IMO by the radical opposites, with the defenders and attackers trading blows, when much of the forum probably thinks both are embellishing and creating drama where it shouldn't exist.



In the long run, a trend of a poster being one of those defenders or attackers isn't worth any of my time, unless I decide to take a moment to put them on my ignore list. Thankfully, that includes very few people. :)

[henners88]

I offer my apologies to Bagwan if I have offended him, it has just been my observation over the years that he is far from Hamilton's biggest fan and rarely gives opposing drivers the blame if Lewis is involved. It's not to say Hamilton is blameless in every incident because he hasn't been, but when I've been part of discussions we learn over time where each other's loyalties lie on the grid.

I don't think threads have been ruined when discussing this last race. If we all had the same opinions it would be rather boring. We just can't help getting frustrated when we feel points are dismissed and drivers who should really be getting a but of sympathy end up coming out as the bad guy because of our likes or dislikes.

I know I could do with a break from F1 discussion for a while and it's reminded me why this place used to get so infuriating in the past. No point falling out over silly debates with people we've never met or likely to meet.

[journeyman racer]

That's just nasty , dude .
And , not true .

I thank you for the compliment , as not being "draining" is quite an accolade , but go easy on those mass generalizations , at least when using my name as an example .

This thread isn't spoiled . it's just fine .

I appreciate being defended , but if we throw rocks , we can expect others throw rocks too .


Debate , dude .
Alright then. You waffle on too much, and are biased against Hamilton.


It can be draining alright when you're trying to defend something that was undefendable...
You should try reading it...









Hehehe...

[Doc Austin]

The bickering here is worse than at Mercedes! :D

[Bagwan]

It can be draining alright when you're trying to defend something that was undefendable and deliberate. Actually, if you look back at my posts over the years, I try and stay neutral enough and have no problem putting my hand up when Hamilton makes a mistake but after Monaco this year, along with some of the absurd arguments in this thread from people whom try and make out that they are level headed when trying to defend a blatantly obvious move by one opponent to take out the other, I decided to take the gloves off.

As for Bagwan, I stopped paying attention to his posts years ago. I've really no interest in reading a post of a user that comes along and intentionally tries to offer a different slant on opinion just for the sake of trying to be different, opposed to actually taking the facts at hand and rolling with them.

Gosh , sorry for being so tiring for you .

But , are you sure I am just trying to be different ?

Oh , yeah , you're ignoring me . Sorry , I forgot .

Oh yeah , sorry , one more question .
If it's "undefendable" , what's the point of coming here to debate it ?

And , finally , sorry to everyone else , as I shouldn't have bothered responding .

[Bagwan]

I offer my apologies to Bagwan if I have offended him, it has just been my observation over the years that he is far from Hamilton's biggest fan and rarely gives opposing drivers the blame if Lewis is involved. It's not to say Hamilton is blameless in every incident because he hasn't been, but when I've been part of discussions we learn over time where each other's loyalties lie on the grid.

I don't think threads have been ruined when discussing this last race. If we all had the same opinions it would be rather boring. We just can't help getting frustrated when we feel points are dismissed and drivers who should really be getting a but of sympathy end up coming out as the bad guy because of our likes or dislikes.

I know I could do with a break from F1 discussion for a while and it's reminded me why this place used to get so infuriating in the past. No point falling out over silly debates with people we've never met or likely to meet.

Dude , I wasn't upset at all .

And , don't you go off and take a break or I will be upset !

I love debating with you guys , even TBK , believe it or not .

[The Black Knight]

The bickering here is worse than at Mercedes! :D

It sure is ;)

[Bagwan]

Well now , Niki has apologized .
And Alonso , Vettel , and Hulkenburg have all come out saying it was a simple racing incident .

[Tazio]

Well now , Niki has apologized .
And Alonso , Vettel , and Hulkenburg have all come out saying it was a simple racing incident .

I hope The Boss isn't cross with Fred! :confused: :p

Edit: Never mind I just found this vid of Zo hugging Ham at the press conference. :heart: :angel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a2g__qOFGo

[zako85]

Well now , Niki has apologized .
And Alonso , Vettel , and Hulkenburg have all come out saying it was a simple racing incident .

Not only them, but also Alain Prost and David Coulthard labeled this as a racing incident.

[truefan72]

Well now , Niki has apologized .
And Alonso , Vettel , and Hulkenburg have all come out saying it was a simple racing incident .

Niki Lauda apologised to Rosberg for the Outburst, but that does not mean he dd not and does not lay the blame on rosberg
As to rosberg: http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/173631.html

[donKey jote]

As to Ham: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29067962

Shut up y'all and drive :)

[Bagwan]

Someone needs to investigate why they didn't investigate .

We should be calling this horrible scandal "investi-gate" .
Where's David Frost when you need him ?

[steveaki13]

Where's David Frost when you need him ?

I think he has a good excuse for not being around ;)

[airshifter]

Someone needs to investigate why they didn't investigate .

We should be calling this horrible scandal "investi-gate" .
Where's David Frost when you need him ?

I'm ordering some bumper stickers for the forum now.

Insti-gate Investi-gate!

[anfield5]

I, as many others saw the main fault with Nico, he was the following car and should have kept clear, but in fairness, the ego-driven prawn in the lead car did chop across rather severly, and the more I see it the more the blame moves away from Rosberg.

[Bagwan]

No team orders , but they're not allowed to play "chicken" any more .

It costs too many buck bucks .

[Rollo]

I'm ordering some bumper stickers for the forum now.
Insti-gate Investi-gate!

This pleases Dalek Poirot.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/12/e8/c9/12e8c94ca7091cc64de71aed357712ed.jpg

Investi-gate Investi-gate! My little grey cells are tingling! Investi-gate Investi-gate!

[Big Ben]

Well now , Niki has apologized .
And Alonso , Vettel , and Hulkenburg have all come out saying it was a simple racing incident .

They are obviously Hamilton haters and try to defend Rosberg the rich cheat.... cynical bastards

[The Black Knight]

At least the little cheat Rosberg has finally had the decency to admit his mistake and apologize to Hamilton and the team. It's about time really that he did that - it should have happened right after the race, but on reflection he now knows what he did was wrong. We all know cheating is wrong, of course, but it's obviously something Nico has only just learned. Hopefully we'll have no repeat of Belgium and Monaco now. It's a shame he has only gotten away with a slap on the wrist but such is life I guess. Looking forward to this weekend's race now. If Hamilton could win and Rosberg doesn't cheat in the process it would at least be some vindication of two weeks ago.

[Big Ben]

At last the cheat has the decency to say all the right things the PR team told him to say.

you can put all this pain and suffering behind you

[555-04Q2]

I, as many others saw the main fault with Nico, he was the following car and should have kept clear, but in fairness, the ego-driven prawn in the lead car did chop across rather severly, and the more I see it the more the blame moves away from Rosberg.

I've been developing the same view after also viewing the incident more times. Lewis knew he was there all along. I think Lewis was trying to make a point / stamp his authority and came off second best.

[555-04Q2]

To all the people bleating about cheating, Nico didn't cheat, he was involved in a minor bump with another driver that caused a puncture. It's not like he stole Lewis's tyre for crying out loud.

Knock, knock.
Who's there?
The tax man!
The tax man who?
Just open up you tax cheating hypocrite.

[The Black Knight]

I've been developing the same view after also viewing the incident more times. Lewis knew he was there all along. I think Lewis was trying to make a point / stamp his authority and came off second best.

Lewis was racing hard. Racing hard always involves a statement. Nico was the one that swerved towards Lewis tire. Lewis had the racing line in the end of the day and was entitled to take it.

Anyway, surprise surprise, Lewis has electrical problems in FP2. Just when things go well they get worse and no issue for Nico once again.

[journeyman racer]

It's only FP2. It's not like he was leading the race, and suffered a problem which cost him win. Like with Rosberg at Silverstone. The only time a leading driver has had a mechanical dnf while leading, this year. Hamilton is lucky that that hasn't happened to him this year. Unlike Rosberg, who was unlucky. .

[The Black Knight]

It's only FP2. It's not like he was leading the race, and suffered a problem which cost him win. Like with Rosberg at Silverstone. The only time a leading driver has had a mechanical dnf while leading, this year. Hamilton is lucky that that hasn't happened to him this year. Unlike Rosberg, who was unlucky. .

Canada...

[journeyman racer]

Rubbish! Both Rosberg and Hamilton had the exact problem, at the exact same time. Rosberg was leading before he lost it due to MB giving Hamilton a more favourable pit stop (Again Hamilton was lucky). Rosberg had the talent to carry and ailing car to the finish, which Hamilton didn't. It's only Rosberg that has been denied a genuine opportunity of a win. Rosberg should really be leading by 61 points, if he wasn't so unlucky.

[truefan72]

Rubbish! Both Rosberg and Hamilton had the exact problem, at the exact same time. Rosberg was leading before he lost it due to MB giving Hamilton a more favourable pit stop (Again Hamilton was lucky). Rosberg had the talent to carry and ailing car to the finish, which Hamilton didn't. It's only Rosberg that has been denied a genuine opportunity of a win. Rosberg should really be leading by 61 points, if he wasn't so unlucky.

funniest post of the year
lets come back to reality

1. Australia- hamilton takes pole , Rosberg 2nd: car starts to breaks down on warm up lap, losing power before eventually being retired after a few laps, Rosberg waltzes to a win
2. Malaysia - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 3rd: Hamilton wins by 17 seconds, Rosberg could not come close to his teammate
2. Bahrain, - Rosberg takes pole, hamilton 2nd: Hamilton wins the race with "the talent" to stay ahead with older tires and the harder compound and a teammate who turned the engine mode up to try to pass
3. China - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 4th: Hamilton wins by 18 seconds
5. Spain - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 2nd: Hamilton wins the race with a slim margin. It was a close finish, but rosberg fails to pass
lets asses 4 wins in a row Rosberg is frustrates,
6. Monaco - Rosberg takes a very suspect pole we all know what happened: He wins the race, its a procession and unlike Rosberg, Hamilton wasn't trying any banzai moves
7. Canada - Rosberg takes pole, Hamilton 2nd: Hamilton was catching Rosberg, both cars suffered brake failure, Hamilton engineers tell him to retire the car, Rosberg engineers tell him ( correctly how to manage the car) a pattern of incompetence from the hamilton side of the garage begins including slower pitstops as well. So Rosberg comes 2nd and hamiltons croes no points
8. Austria - Hamilton screws up in Qualy gets P9, Rosberg only manages p3: But goes to win the race while hamilton makes up 8 spots to come in 2nd with only 1.9 seconds back
9: Great Britain: Hamilton gets p6 in a poor qualy Rosberg P1: Hamilton was catching Rosberg at a fair rate of knots even before his car started having problems. Hamilton wins the race. Rosberg scores nothing

so, as i see it: to this point Hamilton has had 2 mechanical dnf's to rosberg's 1 dnf
10: Germany - brake failure during Qualy for Hamilton, Rosberg takes pole: Hamilton starts from p20 and still gets p3. Rosberg takes an unchallenged win
11: Hungary - Hamilton;s car catches fire in qualy after dominating FP sessions: Rosberg takes pole, finishes 4th, Hamilton finishes 3rd and uses his "talent" to pass vergne ion 3 corners, while rosberg could not in 15 laps. Rosberg also could never keep pace with hamilton and team messed up with the whole team orders thing.
12. Spa: Rosberg takes pole, Hamilton takes p2, passes him on the start and we all know what happened

so please explain to everyone how Rosberg has been the one unlucky
SMH

[Zico]

funniest post of the year
lets come back to reality

1. Australia- hamilton takes pole , Rosberg 2nd: car starts to breaks down on warm up lap, losing power before eventually being retired after a few laps, Rosberg waltzes to a win
2. Malaysia - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 3rd: Hamilton wins by 17 seconds, Rosberg could not come close to his teammate
2. Bahrain, - Rosberg takes pole, hamilton 2nd: Hamilton wins the race with "the talent" to stay ahead with older tires and the harder compound and a teammate who turned the engine mode up to try to pass
3. China - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 4th: Hamilton wins by 18 seconds
5. Spain - Hamilton takes pole, Rosberg 2nd: Hamilton wins the race with a slim margin. It was a close finish, but rosberg fails to pass
lets asses 4 wins in a row Rosberg is frustrates,
6. Monaco - Rosberg takes a very suspect pole we all know what happened: He wins the race, its a procession and unlike Rosberg, Hamilton wasn't trying any banzai moves
7. Canada - Rosberg takes pole, Hamilton 2nd: Hamilton was catching Rosberg, both cars suffered brake failure, Hamilton engineers tell him to retire the car, Rosberg engineers tell him ( correctly how to manage the car) a pattern of incompetence from the hamilton side of the garage begins including slower pitstops as well. So Rosberg comes 2nd and hamiltons croes no points
8. Austria - Hamilton screws up in Qualy gets P9, Rosberg only manages p3: But goes to win the race while hamilton makes up 8 spots to come in 2nd with only 1.9 seconds back
9: Great Britain: Hamilton gets p6 in a poor qualy Rosberg P1: Hamilton was catching Rosberg at a fair rate of knots even before his car started having problems. Hamilton wins the race. Rosberg scores nothing

so, as i see it: to this point Hamilton has had 2 mechanical dnf's to rosberg's 1 dnf
10: Germany - brake failure during Qualy for Hamilton, Rosberg takes pole: Hamilton starts from p20 and still gets p3. Rosberg takes an unchallenged win
11: Hungary - Hamilton;s car catches fire in qualy after dominating FP sessions: Rosberg takes pole, finishes 4th, Hamilton finishes 3rd and uses his "talent" to pass vergne ion 3 corners, while rosberg could not in 15 laps. Rosberg also could never keep pace with hamilton and team messed up with the whole team orders thing.
12. Spa: Rosberg takes pole, Hamilton takes p2, passes him on the start and we all know what happened

so please explain to everyone how Rosberg has been the one unlucky
SMH



Yes, quite but you are only wearing out your finger tips feeding the troll



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CaTY1VFTPA ;)

[truefan72]

Yes, quite but you are only wearing out your finger tips feeding the troll



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CaTY1VFTPA ;)

i know, i know, just had nothing better to do last night lol

thx

[driveace]

Going to take some weeks and races for Rosberg to get the fans behind him again .After Monaco and Spa ,the boos were also at Monza too .Even when Rosberg tried to pacify the crowd by talking in Italian to them cut no ice .At this point the crowd are behind Lewis and Danny and Valterri too .And Nico although leading the championship he has a problem getting the fans on his side again

[steveaki13]

The booing fans may have been some pathetic British fans (i hate to say that as a British fan myself), because their were a lot at Monza.

Pretty pointless and petty to carry it over a race. I can just about understand after the moment in Spa, but its a poor show today if it was.

Mind you if it was Italian fans, then that is surprising and poor too.

[The Black Knight]

The booing fans may have been some pathetic British fans (i hate to say that as a British fan myself), because their were a lot at Monza.

Pretty pointless and petty to carry it over a race. I can just about understand after the moment in Spa, but its a poor show today if it was.

Mind you if it was Italian fans, then that is surprising and poor too.

I don't know which it was but I don't feel it was undeserved. The message has to be sunk through and maybe now it has. If Rosberg wins this WDC due to the 18 points he gained last week with his cheating along with his Minaco cheating then he deserves all the boo's.

Anyway I think if the 6 races are flat out between the pair that Hamilton will take it. He is the better driver and that was very clear to be seen today.

[Doc Austin]

Anyway I think if the 6 races are flat out between the pair that Hamilton will take it. He is the better driver and that was very clear to be seen today.

Unless I missed it, Nico did not claim any problems with the car, so Hamilton was faster and Nico cracked under the pressure.

I would not want to be in Nico's position (everything to lose) with so many races still to go and with such a rapid teammate closing in. Nico's only one DNF away from letting Hamilton back into the fight, so again, every race, he has everything to lose.

Hamilton is realistically out of it unless Nico has a DNF. The odds of Lewis stringing another four-peat together are pretty slim, but as long as Nico scores, that's what Hamilton will have to do. Rosberg will definitely win a few more races, so it's going to take a DNF for him to come close to losing the title. If Nico can win a couple more races and then keep scoring seconds, he's in good shape.

Still, it puts Nico in the "everything to lose" position and Hamilton in the "everything to gain position." It's hard to imagine how much pressure Nico must be feeling, and maybe that showed up today.

[The Black Knight]

Unless I missed it, Nico did not claim any problems with the car, so Hamilton was faster and Nico cracked under the pressure.

I would not want to be in Nico's position (everything to lose) with so many races still to go and with such a rapid teammate closing in. Nico's only one DNF away from letting Hamilton back into the fight, so again, every race, he has everything to lose.

Hamilton is realistically out of it unless Nico has a DNF. The odds of Lewis stringing another four-peat together are pretty slim, but as long as Nico scores, that's what Hamilton will have to do. Rosberg will definitely win a few more races, so it's going to take a DNF for him to come close to losing the title. If Nico can win a couple more races and then keep scoring seconds, he's in good shape.

Still, it puts Nico in the "everything to lose" position and Hamilton in the "everything to gain position." It's hard to imagine how much pressure Nico must be feeling, and maybe that showed up today.

Well realistically Hamilton only has to score 9 more points than Nico in the next 5 races and then win the last race in Abu Dhabi. I'd be very worried if I were Nico. There is very, very little in it. He knows that Hamilton will beat him 9/10 in a straight fight, that's why he resorted to such unsavoury tactics this year. Remember 22 points is only 9 points under the old system. It seems larger than it really is and is very surmountable.

[MJW]

Hamilton will be signing with uncle Ron soon to wear his yellow helmet in a McLaren Honda, once Mercedes find this out he will develop car problems.

[driveace]

I thought the same ,but Mercedes say until they see how the year pans out they are signing another contract with Hamilton .But Hamilton was promised 17 mill against Rosbergs 14 mill contract
If Hamilton can have 25 mill from McLaren and a less cheating teammate then yes he may go !

[anfield5]

I thought the same ,but Mercedes say until they see how the year pans out they are signing another contract with Hamilton .But Hamilton was promised 17 mill against Rosbergs 14 mill contract
If Hamilton can have 25 mill from McLaren and a less cheating teammate then yes he may go !

Typical of the little ego-driven nerk - Follow the money. It is always the same with Hamophiles, when he isn't winning his team are against him, his team mate cheats, god doesn't love him blah, blah, blah. It is all rather tiresome and shows him for what he is, a proper 'Merchant Banker'

[Mia 01]

FIA will forbid helping the drivers thrue the radio from next race. Poor Lewis!

[Tazio]

FIA will forbid helping the drivers thrue the radio from next race. Poor Lewis! Yup poor Lewis, it might be tough for the boss without someone telling him the opposite of what to do. :angel:

[Bagwan]

Yup poor Lewis, it might be tough for the boss without someone telling him the opposite of what to do. :angel:

There is no "I" in team , but there is in both "Lewis" and "Hamilton" .

He really is the boss .

[journeyman racer]

Typical of the little ego-driven nerk - Follow the money. It is always the same with Hamophiles, when he isn't winning his team are against him, his team mate cheats, god doesn't love him blah, blah, blah. It is all rather tiresome and shows him for what he is, a proper 'Merchant Banker'
"Hamophiles"? That's a good one. Hamilton leaves MB, after MB has paid for his whole career so far? Definite Merchant Banker.


FIA will forbid helping the drivers thrue the radio from next race. Poor Lewis!
Really?

[Tazio]

Jeezus h christ baggie it was supposed to be a joke. Isn't it your turn to scrub the toilets at your hotdog stand, and maybe get a massage while you're at it smart-ass. BTW their is an I in dido breath...... just kidding pal
Best wishes' :wave:

[Bagwan]

Jeezus h christ baggie it was supposed to be a joke. Isn't it your turn to scrub the toilets at your hotdog stand, and maybe get a massage while you're at it smart-ass. BTW their is an I in dido breath...... just kidding pal
Best wishes' :wave:

Aint no joke when an employee refuses to scrub the toilets at the tube steak stand .

It leaves me with two dirty jobs .

I knew you were kidding , by the way .
A "Boss Boy" like you should change his nick to "Hugo" . Hee hee .

They need to try some reverse psychology on the Boss .
"Don't save your tires." or "Don't let Nico past ." might work .

Or , maybe they could have the driver scrub the motorhome loo if he doesn't obey the team .
Coming face to face with a Stanley Steamer after the race might give these little millionaires a reminder as to who they work for .