Toyota GT86

[M5]

Do anyone know the price of the GT86 R3?

[Sulland]

Aprox 38 000 Euro x VAT, before option packages for the racing car. No details I can find on the R3 Rally car yet.
I guess price for the R3 will come right after Rally Germany, where it will be used as course car.

"TMG is the GT86 CS-R3 show the public the first time at the Rally Germany, the WRC around Trier Isolde is moving ahead as a first prototype car of the event. This application will also serve to determine the final specifications of AUO. As a result, the purchase price and more information will be announced."

Details Race car here:
http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/images/GT86_Order_Request_2014_00.pdf

[Sulland]

And there we have the price on the Rally version and that is 79 000 € before VAT!!???

Why in h*ell is it twice as expensive to build a rally car compared with a racing car. Does that make sense?
Tech gurus of the forum pls explain this to a simple Viking??

[Mirek]

It's nothing strange. Volumes make incredible difference in the price of parts. Just an example... Your designer works for 50 Euro/hour and he spends 1000 hours on the development of one part. If You make 100 of those parts You must put 500 Euro of his work into every part. If You make 1000000 of those parts You put only 5 cents of his work into every single part. Add to that the fact that people in motorsport development are generally more skilled and therefore more expensive than those in serial projects. Same law applies to all tools, buildings, energies etc. You need.

Another very important thing is that for high volumes You can use much more effective ways of production like forged, cast or at best pressed parts instead of welded or machined ones etc.

Than You have materials. In motorsport use You must use better materials. Usually the curve showing dependence of quality and price is exponential which means that for material with 2x better properties You don't pay 2x more but way way more (it's not only because of the material itself but also because of the volumes in which such material is produced).

Now You buy the material. If You buy the same one for serial production and You take 10000 tons per year You sure pay way less per ton than if You buy 1 ton per year.

One example from my job (quite extreme since it's plastics but still). We have ordered a prototype part now which is milled from a block of plastic and than polished. The one part costs more than thousand Euro for one piece. In serial production the same part will be produced in hundreds thousand pieces per year using a mould. The price per one part is going to be less than one Euro for one!

[HaCo]

I didn't see any video footage of the car during Deutschland rally. Dit anyone find any. What did it look like on the stages?

[wildboar]

I didn't see any video footage of the car during Deutschland rally. Dit anyone find any. What did it look like on the stages?

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html

[noel157]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html

Extremely boring footage. No disrespect to Isolde Holdereid but no handbrakes or oversteer! Was expecting something a little more entertaining.

[MartijnS]

Looked boring on the stages indeed.

[makinen_fan]

Another video by irally
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_vid.htm?00001722!

[manthey]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/media/videos/page/112--80--.html

a curiosity: someone knows the name of the song at the beginning and during the video?thanks

[HaCo]

Pretty boring indeed.

[Sulland]

Would be interessting to see a driver that dared to make some show, even as 00 car on asfalt. But even better to see it with a good RWD gravel driver!

To Mirek; of course I understand that a R3 rally car is more special than a non homologated cup car, but doubling the price is still a steep increase!
Maybe a cheaper cup car also for rally?

[Mirek]

The problem with the cheaper cars is that they work only in those cups. Good example is 207 R3T or Abarth 500 R3T. Those were made for cups. They were cheaper but not competitive against the top dogs so aside of the cups almost nobody used them.

[M5]

Do you know how many GT-86 has been sold by now?

[HaCo]

Do you know how many GT-86 has been sold by now?
If any? :D

[Jarek Z]

Do you know how many GT-86 has been sold by now?

I don't think any has been sold. According to http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/plany-toyoty-poznamy-w-piatek,59340 homologation was postponed until July 1. The first customers may get the car in May. The first rally is going to be Rally Niedersachsen (July 4).

[HaCo]

This video has been released a month ago: http://youtu.be/WEaBKR_RwsI

[Jarek Z]

Very bad news from Germany. According to Autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/klopoty-z-gt86-cs-r3,61000) the project of Toyota GT86 CS-R3 is postponed at least until October. Toyota Motorsport GmbH has some problem with steering. The HJS TMG CS-R3 Trophy, that was planned in German championship, was canceled.

http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201505/news20150501_61000h.jpg

[nafpaktos]

Something else i suppose is behind,so many months to solve a problem with steering???

[OldF]

I interpret that it’s a homologation problem, not a technical.

http://www.maxrally.com/2015/05/01/new-toyota-delayed

[OldF]

Reason for the delay, page 103

“It is reported that the homologation problem centres on finding a power steering unit suitable for competition use that is sourced from a mass production component, as required under FIA R3 rules.”

http://digital.motorsportmonday.com//launch.aspx?eid=8322bfbc-36f4-4754-8e04-96b6674d69ca (http://digital.motorsportmonday.com/launch.aspx?eid=8322bfbc-36f4-4754-8e04-96b6674d69ca)

[Jarek Z]

Tommi Makinen was driving something called Toyota GT86 WRC in Finland. Apparently it is a 4WD turbo-charged car, but I have no idea if it is some prototype version of Toyota GT86 R3. Check out the video below:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/makinen-sprawdza-gt86-wrc,62499

[Mirek]

Jarek, the car was used already last year for taxi drives with Toyota leadership ;)

[pantealex]

Tommi Makinen was driving something called Toyota GT86 WRC in Finland. Apparently it is a 4WD turbo-charged car, but I have no idea if it is some prototype version of Toyota GT86 R3. Check out the video below:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/makinen-sprawdza-gt86-wrc,62499

Subaru R4 power, actually it was Subaru BRZ not Toyota GT-86, they just stick Toyota badges on it.

[Sulland]

Have anyone been able to locate a powersteering that is usable for the R3 GT86?

[skarderud]

@tmgofficial: https://twitter.com/tmgofficial/status/630667915851919360?s=09

Back on track!

[Andre Oliveira]

Good, R3 by TMG and WRC by TMR

[pantealex]

Good, R3 by TMG and WRC by TMR

R2 and R5 also by TMR/Gazoo

[Zeakiwi]

Possum Bourne Motorsport -Endurance Circuit / Targa tarmac rally prepared Subaru BRZ.
https://www.facebook.com/endurancebrz

[Jarek Z]

Let there be joy! The RWD-Toyota finally received homologation :)

According to
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/toyota-gt86-cs-r3-otrzymala-homologacje,63888
the price starts at 84 000 € . Are you buying? ;)

http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201510/news20151002_63888h.jpg

[Mirek]

232 Hp? That's not much for NA R3 however the public numbers may be bullshit like in many cases (Škoda rallycars as a perfect example).

[Zeakiwi]

Paul Blomqvist (Son of Stig- WRC 1984) was on NZ tv this week driving a Toyota 86 (production track race car) as a driving try out for a sponsored drive in the NZ 86 series.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Who's gonna drive it..??

[tommeke_B]

Who's gonna drive it..??

http://www.leredacteurauto.be/archive/2015/10/03/brc-rallye-du-condroz-snijers-sur-la-gt86-8508718.html Patrick Snijers will demonstrate the potential of this car in Rallye du Condroz (7-8 november), final round of the Belgian Rally Championship. There should be plenty more R3/R2/Gr.N/RWD cars to compare it against. :)

[Jarek Z]

Great news! Go Patrick! :)

[Mirek]

With this news I think I have finally decided to go :)

[Mirek]

According to a friend Hermann Gassner jr. will drive one at 3-Städte Rallye.

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, entry list: http://ewrc-results.com/startlist.php?e=20956&t=ADAC-3-Stadte-Rallye-2015

[RICARDO75]

According to a friend Hermann Gassner jr. will drive one at 3-Städte Rallye.

Yes, he will but for the second time. Gassner Jr. was on Rallye Baden-Württemberg with GT86 R3 zero car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F3fTk3WEYQ

[dodge33cymru]

Superb, can't wait to see these on stages next year

[Rally Power]

Not bad for a 1st outing! Gassner Jr. ended 3 Stade Rallye as 2nd of 2wd/2l. He managed to fight all rally long with R2 Adam's drivers for 2wd lead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuLH82WRLCI

[Mirek]

It's hard to judge but I'm not very positive about the result. There was no compeition from other R3 drivers but Hermann Gassner jr. is definitely good enough driver to be ahead of R2s with R3 car. Actually he was ahead except some lost time on SS3 and SS9 ( http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=20956&d=969438&t=ADAC-3-Stadte-Rallye-2015 ). The overall competiion level was really low. For example sixth placed Tošovský is slow Czech gentleman driver who is rarely able to get to top 15 in our rallysprints (2nd league).

[Jarek Z]

It's hard to judge but I'm not very positive about the result. There was no compeition from other R3 drivers but Hermann Gassner jr. is definitely good enough driver to be ahead of R2s with R3 car. Actually he was ahead except some lost time on SS3 and SS9 ( http://www.ewrc-results.com/driver_info.php?e=20956&d=969438&t=ADAC-3-Stadte-Rallye-2015 ). The overall competiion level was really low. For example sixth placed Tošovský is slow Czech gentleman driver who is rarely able to get to top 15 in our rallysprints (2nd league).

Yes, 9th place is a big disappointment. But without the problems on SS3, Gassner would have been 5th or 6th overal, so he wasn't that bad.

I like the looks of this car:
http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=253097&entry=969438

[Jarek Z]

Herman Gassner jr and his Toyota in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXOhTflukW4

[RICARDO75]

Hermann Gassner jr. - TMG Toyota GT86 CS-R3 - 3 Städte Rallye - SS2 onboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8lsOiOLqxs

[Jarek Z]

Patrick Snijers and Toyota GT86 during wet tests before Condroz Rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ay9NZ9-5nY

[OldF]

Toyota Motorsport ‏@tmgofficial (https://twitter.com/tmgofficial) Dec 21 (https://twitter.com/tmgofficial/status/678884378068574208)
Ever wondered about running costs for a rally car? Here's the predicted cost for the CS-R3:

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/downloads/gt86_cs-r3/R3_Running_Cost_calculator.pdf … (https://t.co/tA8VNfRCQJ)

[Sulland]

Toyota Motorsport ‏@tmgofficial (https://twitter.com/tmgofficial) Dec 21 (https://twitter.com/tmgofficial/status/678884378068574208)
Ever wondered about running costs for a rally car? Here's the predicted cost for the CS-R3:

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/motorsport/downloads/gt86_cs-r3/R3_Running_Cost_calculator.pdf … (https://t.co/tA8VNfRCQJ)

how does this compare with other R3s?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZoqRLrWYAAXiKM.jpg:large

[dupanton]

how does this compare with other R3s?

And how will this compare to the real running cost? :)

[Jarek Z]

Oh my God, this car looks great! This livery takes me back to the great times of Toyota Celica GT-Four! :)

[Jarek Z]

Big fail of the Toyota Cup in Germany. The cup is canceled. Not enough drivers were interested :(
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/puchar-toyoty-odwolany,66220

[Sulland]

Is'nt this car too expensive compared to what you get.
The track car cost 45 000 and the rally car cost 84 000€.

They need to chop the price down to 60 000€, then they might start selling them to RWD drivers that are looking for a troublefree season, and a lot of fun.

maybe also make a version with a Subaru Gr N engine, to get some more grunt.

[Mirek]

Another rally and again bad result. Gassner jr. 3,5 minutes slower than Mohe with Clio R3T while being constantly slower through the rally. Gassner jr. is hardly worse driver than Mohe...

[tommeke_B]

Don't forget that Vogelsberg has +-20% gravel in their stages, and that there has been some rain during the rally... ;)

[Mirek]

And so what? FWD is the worst possible configuration for traction, not RWD.

[Jarek Z]

Yes, I have just had a look a the results. The car looks nice, but the results are bad :(

http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=30006&ADAC-Hessen-Rallye-Vogelsberg-2016

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=284294&entry=1149893

[tommeke_B]

And so what? FWD is the worst possible configuration for traction, not RWD.

Hmm... In general we've seen that RWD cars suffer more from rain than FWD, in terms of stage-times. ;) Like most people here, I don't believe in the Toyota project, especially with the price tag given to it... If the car has any potential I'm sure Toyota will try to show it off later this year. A good occasion for that would be in Ypres. :)

[Fly]

Yes, I have just had a look a the results. The car looks nice, but the results are bad :(

http://www.ewrc-results.com/results.php?e=30006&ADAC-Hessen-Rallye-Vogelsberg-2016

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=284294&entry=1149893

The car didn't impress me at rallye du Condroz last year. Although development has been made since, it looked completely empty at lower revs. I mean really empty compared to Clio's or DS3's...

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

And lack of power..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

I have just read that Finnish Formula 1 driver Heikki Kovalainen is going to drive Toyota GT86 CS-R3 in Japanese rally championship.
Details below :)
http://www.rallyplus.net/20643

[Jarek Z]

Toyota GT86 was 7th overall and 1st in 2WD in RALLYE STEMWEDER BERG in the German championship.

Final results - RALLYE STEMWEDER BERG 2016
1. Fabian Kreim/Frank Christian (D) Skoda Fabia R5 1:24.50,3
2. Dominik Dinkel/Christina Kohl (D) Skoda Fabia S2000 +36,6
3. Kristian Poulsen/Ole Frederiksen (DK) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.29,0
4. Mark van Eldik/Harmen Scholtalbers (NL) Skoda Fabia R5 +3.33,8
5. Peter Corazza/Jörn Limbach (D) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX +4.20,9
6. Hermann Gassner/Karin Thannhäuser (D) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII +4.55,7
7. Hermann Gassner Jr/Valentin Langner (D) Toyota GT86 CS-R3 +6.10,6
8. Dmitrij Birjukow/Jewgienij Kałaczew (RUS) Skoda Fabia R5 +8.36,6
9. Armin Holz/Frank Nowotny (D) Citroën DS3 R3T +8.53,9
10. Norman Kreuter/Jessica Patz (D) Citroën DS3 R3T +10.16,5

[Brynmor Pierce]

The UK car finished top 2wd and 8th overall at Goodwood Festival of Speed last weekend too...

[pantealex]

Heikki Kovalainen was 3rd in class at Japan

[Rally Power]

Heikki Kovalainen was 3rd in class at Japan

Onboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzAS8nr9EE

Overall, first win for an Evo (Nutahara/Sato) this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2SzbPsZZ-M

[nafpaktos]

Onboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzAS8nr9EE

the gear ratios look quite STRANGE

[Jarek Z]

Will Corry in his Toyota GT86 CS-R3 wins the event called "Ulster National A Rally".

Final results:
http://www.ulsterrally.com/media/43269/ur16-final-results-nat-a.pdf

Photo:
https://www.facebook.com/GT86CSR3UK/photos/a.1745122792425003.1073741829.1728478710756078/1780485835555365/?type=3&theater

[Brynmor Pierce]

It was quite a privilege to take what I believe is the first ever outright win for the Gt86 CS-R3, insanely tough rally with weather changing on every stage. Tyre choice was a lottery and we were using D-mack for the first time also.

Great event so onwards and upwards...

[Mirek]

This coming weekend Rossetti with GT86 against Koči with DS3 R3 Max, JERC drivers and locals. I'm looking forward!

[Sulland]

I am sorry to say that this car need 1.6 turbo engine to compete in R3.
it lacks ca 200 NM of torque compared to a DS3 Max.

[dimviii]

Rosseti reports that they loosing a lot at slow corners and slow parts of stages,while the car is fantastic at faster parts.

[Sulland]

Rosseti reports that they loosing a lot at slow corners and slow parts of stages,while the car is fantastic at faster parts.

Lack of NM!