Lukyanuk

[Mariusz]

Well, after the Estonia screw up his chances to win the Championship are rather small. He would need a lot of luck and money to try to stay in the game, but he was short of money even before, so I'd say it's game over for him this year.

[rage82]

Not really surprised. It was clear from the beginning that he lacks funds to do a full championship.

Sent from my X17 using Tapatalk

[Kalm]

Moments from Rally Estonia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JLnvcEGEk

[Rallyper]

Hard landing on last pictures breaks steering arm. No major off afterwards either.

[tomhlord]

Moments from Rally Estonia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6JLnvcEGEk

2:21 - 2:36 Interesting Skoda comparison!

[Mirek]

2:21 - 2:36 Interesting Skoda comparison!

AFAIK 175 against 194 km/h in numbers ;)

According to Br21 the reason why they run short gearbox (all Fiestas) was because of the acceleration from low speeds on soft sandy surface. Otherwise longer option is homologated for Fiesta as well.

[Xsara Fan]

Alex Lukyanuk will take part in WRC Rally Sweden. He will start in WRC2 category (Google translate it): http://autosport.com.ru/wrc/39307-aleksey-lukyanyuk-vystupit-na-etape-wrc-v-shvecii

[satukata]

alex lukyanuk will take part in wrc rally sweden. He will start in wrc2 category (google translate it): http://autosport.com.ru/wrc/39307-aleksey-lukyanyuk-vystupit-na-etape-wrc-v-shvecii

great news!!

[Andre Oliveira]

The news of the day :) Go Luky / Arnautov.

[drive]

Luky thanks his sponsor www.ЭЛЕМЕНТЫ.ру for this opportunity, same car and team as last year, for now other plans for this year are not clear yet - seems like finances being the biggest problem....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For those that may not have heard, yesterday Lukyanuk was involved in a terrible rally test accident and is in hospital.

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-winner-lukyanuk-injured-in-crash/

[janvanvurpa]

For those that may not have heard, yesterday Lukyanuk was involved in a terrible rally test accident and is in hospital.

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-winner-lukyanuk-injured-in-crash/

Oh..
Where's the "Don't Like" button?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAGW365VoAEl-ir.jpg

[EightGear]

Lets hope they can sue the hell out of whoever is responsible for his mess.

[WUff1]

Sh*** :(

Wish him a good recovery.

[N.O.T]

i guess that concludes his career at international level i guess... pity, he was a joy to watch.

The ERC went from bad to total worthless competition of shit in 1 day....

[itix]

How does two cars crash into each other during testing?
It just makes no sense.

Thoughts go out to the family of the co-driver of one of the cars who sadly died.

[er88]

That's horrible news. I can't understand how that can happen. Someone has made a fatal error

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[electroliquid]

http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/6870-lukjanuka-stavoklis-videji-smags-pirma-operacija-planota-pirmdien/

Video whats left from cars - looks like it was big fire, no wonder why Lukyanuk lungs damaged.

[AnttiL]

http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/6870-lukjanuka-stavoklis-videji-smags-pirma-operacija-planota-pirmdien/

Video whats left from cars - looks like it was big fire, no wonder why Lukyanuk lungs damaged.

Lukuanuk's co-driver also had 17% burnt skin, from the leg. That could have ended worse as well :/

[KKS]

How does two cars crash into each other during testing?
It just makes no sense.

it's russia. it's a country full of nonsense.
At same time it was two cars on test stage. First driver decide to reverse in the middle of stage (not reaching a finish) and drive to other direction.

[JTGANG]

I think a very similar fatal accident happened 2-3 years ago but i do not remember in which country

[itix]

it's russia. it's a country full of nonsense.
At same time it was two cars on test stage. First driver decide to reverse in the middle of stage (not reaching a finish) and drive to other direction.
That's so retarded it is almost criminal :(

Lukyanuk really has no luck ever. His nickname may be Luky which is close to Lucky but he certainly isn't.

Hope he can recover. Such a shame...

[bluuford]

That's so retarded it is almost criminal :(

Lukyanuk really has no luck ever. His nickname may be Luky which is close to Lucky but he certainly isn't.

Hope he can recover. Such a shame...
If you look what is left from his car, you can consider him extremely lucky that he survived this.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What car was he driving, the other was a Mitsubishi, is this also ?

http://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2017/05/19/14952148019292.jpg

[dimviii]

yeap both are Mitsubishis evo 9

[janvanvurpa]

yeap both are Mitsubishis evo 9


Both were Misterbitchi Evo9s

[Rally Power]

Shocking news. Best recovery for Lukyanuk and the other guys. Condolences for the deceased codriver family. RIP.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

LUKYANUK'S FIRST SURGERY SUCCESSFUL

By José Luis Abreu on May 25 2017 18:15
ALEXEY LUKYANUK
Following the accident suffered last week, Alexey Lukyanuk was submitted on Monday, May 22, to have surgery to the pelvic area. The intervention was successful and the Russian driver is recovering well from it. Lukyanuk will soon undergo further surgery to the heel and knee as soon as bruising improves and swelling subsides.

[Mirek]

Thank You for the update.

[kure91]

Next update from Facebook Alexey Lukyanuk & Alexey Arnautov:
Alexey's Lukyanuk heel and knee were healed today. Now we have just wait till full recovery. Process is not fast but positive in general.
Nikita had surgery on his lags today. Skin transplantation on one and some muscle transplantation on the other. After 5 days of recovery they'll recheck the result.

[stefanvv]

Speedy recovery for Lukyanuk/Arnautov. I hope to see them on the stages soon.

[bugwrx]

Aparently i doubt he will drive a rallycar again. Rumours are, that situation was worse than written on media.

[PLuto]

I am sure he will drive a rallycar again ;)

[itix]

Even if he drives, I am unsure that he will be competitive. These things gives mental scars as well as physical.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even if he drives, I am unsure that he will be competitive. These things gives mental scars as well as physical.

The fact it was quite a bizarre accident (hitting a car coming the other way) which will never happen again in a rally, I dont think he will so badly-effected mentally.

If he can drive fast again physically I think he will do so. Rally is his life.

[AL14]

Even if he drives, I am unsure that he will be competitive. These things gives mental scars as well as physical.

It depends on the person. Mikkelsen went again a little girl at the beginning of his career and now it's he's winning WRC rallys. Others, as you said, remain affected by the "trauma".

[itix]

It depends on the person. Mikkelsen went again a little girl at the beginning of his career and now it's he's winning WRC rallys. Others, as you said, remain affected by the "trauma".
True, but Luky seems a bit more fragile, mentally, than Andreas.

The testing crash at rally Finland, to me, was a good example of that.

[dimviii]

True, but Luky seems a bit more fragile, mentally, than Andreas.

The testing crash at rally Finland, to me, was a good example of that.
why? he wasn't slow at all after Finland test crash.

[itix]

why? he wasn't slow at all after Finland test crash.
No but the pictures of him just after the crash crying made me think he doesn't have the mental ability that Andreas has.

[dimviii]

stage times are the only indicator for that,not if he cried after a big off ,when you know that probably that was your first and last chance at wrc.

[itix]

stage times are the only indicator for that,not if he cried after a big off ,when you know that probably that was your first and last chance at wrc.
Sure but he hasn't set any stage times yet because he is still in hospital. I'm just speculating based on what I know...

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBO7xpNXoAAaXrb.jpg

[eib1]

Great news!
Lukyanuk to start in ERC Rally Rzeszowski in Poland !!

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20228790_1925753791032414_6961511768020359187_n.jp g?oh=b34fbb1cec9aa922ac54c9aa6e9492d5&oe=59EE7086

[itix]

Great news!
Lukyanuk to start in ERC Rally Rzeszowski in Poland !!

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20228790_1925753791032414_6961511768020359187_n.jp g?oh=b34fbb1cec9aa922ac54c9aa6e9492d5&oe=59EE7086
Really or is it a joke? If that's real the guy sure has a lot of humor...

[Andre Oliveira]

Friends! I want to inform you that together with Alexey Arnautov we have sent our application for ERC Rajd Rzeszowski. Rehabilitation after the accident has not yet been completed, but I work hard every day and I hope before rally beginning we will be ready to go for the start ramp... We don’t consider participation in Poland as a fight for high result, but as the first step towards returning to the rally world, and also as an opportunity to express our gratitude to our Fans, Rivals, Partners, as well as all those who so strongly support our friends who suffered in this terrible accident, their loved ones and us during this difficult time ...We express deep sympathy and sorrow to the relatives and friends of Alexey Lyadukhin, who died on that fateful day… This is not easy decision and it is even more difficult road in front of us, but we hope for your support.
Lucas

[itix]

Friends! I want to inform you that together with Alexey Arnautov we have sent our application for ERC Rajd Rzeszowski. Rehabilitation after the accident has not yet been completed, but I work hard every day and I hope before rally beginning we will be ready to go for the start ramp... We don’t consider participation in Poland as a fight for high result, but as the first step towards returning to the rally world, and also as an opportunity to express our gratitude to our Fans, Rivals, Partners, as well as all those who so strongly support our friends who suffered in this terrible accident, their loved ones and us during this difficult time ...We express deep sympathy and sorrow to the relatives and friends of Alexey Lyadukhin, who died on that fateful day… This is not easy decision and it is even more difficult road in front of us, but we hope for your support.
Lucas
I read that too. It's great news :)
Hopefully he'll take it easy.

[eib1]

Really or is it a joke? If that's real the guy sure has a lot of humor...

testing today

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20431227_845348018957781_1169649118556312219_n.jpg ?oh=1df61cf6c4875ca6b3a37ce93d1264c6&oe=59EE9A19

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From FIAERC.com

Lukyanuk makes sensational ERC return with Qualifying best :)

Alexey Lukyanuk has made a sensational return to the FIA European Rally Championship with the fastest time on the Rally Rzeszow Qualifying Stage.

Despite still suffering from the effects of the serious injuries he sustained in a testing crash in Russia in early May, Lukyanuk completed the 3.37-kilometre run with the quickest time of 2m04.187s at the wheel of his Russian Performance Motorsport Ford Fiesta R5.

“Looking to the time it’s fine,” said the Russian. “I have some problems with pain in the car and the confidence but I’m feeling better and it was pretty enjoyable.”

Rally Rzeszów 2017
SS QS
1. Lukyanuk A. 00:02:04.187
2. Gryazin N. +00.261
3. Østberg M. +00.643
4. Suárez J. +01.091
5. Grzyb G. +01.196
6. López J. +01.401
7. Nivette F. +01.706
8. Michel S. +02.801
9. Kajetanowicz K. +02.953
10. Griebel M. +03.091

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Aaaaand Luky's fastest on SS1, ahead of Mads Ostberg.

Asked if he's taken some painkillers before the rally he says, no I just have adrenaline ! :D

What a man.

[mknight]

Aaaaand Luky's fastest on SS1, ahead of Mads Ostberg.

Asked if he's taken some painkillers before the rally he says, no I just have adrenaline ! :D

What a man.

Lasted 1 stage.

[AnttiL]

Apparently he already rolled. Østberg has a big lead after SS2.

[AnttiL]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/36784_dgyqvtyxoaeidop.jpg

Ouch.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lasted 1 stage.

Still more than I expected after the injuries he had in that fatal crash. It was a miracle he was there at all, let alone fastest.

(Some didnt even manage 1 stage ! ;) )

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGYVqdXXsAAjrfZ.jpg

[GigiGalliNo1]

How much sugar does this kid have? Too hyper for the ERC... I feel bad for his sponsors and bank account. Really shame! Perhaps he should start driving the Opel Adam and work his way up to the R5 car!

[itix]

"I'm gonna take it easy and work my way back to speed"
Yeah right Lukas!

I'm happy you didn't scrub off any speed in the accident. Now please focus on the consistency!

[RAS007]

Lasted 1 stage.


https://www.ewrc-results.com/quickp/36784_dgyqvtyxoaeidop.jpg

Ouch.

Like a comedy version of Kubica.

[RS]

Apparently he already rolled. Østberg has a big lead after SS2.

Not any more. He quit the rally because he was too scared.

[RS]

Like a comedy version of Kubica.

I would take Lukyanuk over Kubica as a rally driver personally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A pacenote error led to the off for Lukyanuk.

He deserves massive respect just for driving again, not ridicule.

[AnttiL]

Not any more. He quit the rally because he was too scared.

Østberg was also outside top 10 because of brake and power steering problems and a puncture

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lukyanuk was only one of many big crashes in Poland.

https://youtu.be/-Pu0MoNfbnw

Shows again how important fan safety is...

[Rallyper]

Lukyanuk was only one of many big crashes in Poland.

https://youtu.be/-Pu0MoNfbnw

Shows again how important fan safety is...

Just mad. Not the sport I love.

[tommeke_B]

Just mad. Not the sport I love.

Well, it's the same sport as everywhere else, just more unforgiving stages. ;) It's up to the drivers to find out how far they can go, many found out how far they cannot go...

[Mirek]

How much sugar does this kid have? Too hyper for the ERC... I feel bad for his sponsors and bank account. Really shame! Perhaps he should start driving the Opel Adam and work his way up to the R5 car!

He is nearly 37 years old. Is it that hard to understand that he has nothing to loose? Driving save for 5th place won't bring him anything so why not to try?
His only chance to achieve something is now, not in five years.

Anyway he has been one of the most impressive drivers in our ERC round where many much more famous names failed to achieve anything (Mikkelsen, Lappi, Neuville, Tänak, Novikov or Breen).

[Mirek]

Well, it's the same sport as everywhere else, just more unforgiving stages. ;) It's up to the drivers to find out how far they can go, many found out how far they cannot go...

Exactly. For most of the drivers it was a new rally and the result was not that different from this year's Ypres where the Brits came for the first time - and often ended with a bad crash.

[Rallyper]

Well, it's the same sport as everywhere else, just more unforgiving stages. ;) It's up to the drivers to find out how far they can go, many found out how far they cannot go...

So they go on two lower gears just to find out where the bumps are on a straight? No man, that´ll never happen. What you saw on those vids are just what happens and just luck no spectator was hit. Too far expensive way of running a rally car driving those crazy tarmac stages. Sorry, crazy is what it is.

[Mirek]

If You think that this is bumpy come to Zlín...

[Rallyper]

If You think that this is bumpy come to Zlín...

If those bumps makes cars handling so dangerous on straight in 6 th gear and spectators on so wrong places I think such rallies risk the whole sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rallyper, we know you dont like tarmac rallying but here were cases of bad driving, not the fault of the roads.

Bouffier had no problems here, nor Kajto. Why ? Experience.

[Mirek]

Not only driving but also setting the suspension is absolutely vital on such events. It requires a lot of experience to make it right and that's part of the game. Yes, asphalt doesn't forgive mistakes but that's been a fact since forever.

[Hartusvuori]

This whole discussion post-Rzeszow have revealed some people have quite weird look on rallying. How can these roads be too dangerous for rallying? As if it's roads fault some drivers can not adapt to conditions. Like it've been written here, this kind of roads require correct approach and experience. It doesn't come cheap. All in all, rallying in top level needs this kind of challenging roads. Tarmac is the ultimate test.

[Nelly]

Totally agree. Some of the guys on twitter were Irish. I'm Irish and hearing them giving out saying that fast bumpy asphalt is too dangerous is highly hypocritical, when they proclaim their own home events the best in the world. Safety is touchy subject at the moment and some criticism is justified. Alot of them are getting on their high horse, thinking they have all the solutions, when all they really want is a re tweet from Colin Clark!

[Jarek Z]

I would take Lukyanuk over Kubica as a rally driver personally.

But it's Kubica who is a world champion (WRC2) and not Lukyanuk, who cannot win ERC third year in a row...

[Jarek Z]

Rallyper, we know you dont like tarmac rallying but here were cases of bad driving, not the fault of the roads.

Bouffier had no problems here, nor Kajto. Why ? Experience.

And talent!

[Rallyper]

This whole discussion post-Rzeszow have revealed some people have quite weird look on rallying. How can these roads be too dangerous for rallying? As if it's roads fault some drivers can not adapt to conditions. Like it've been written here, this kind of roads require correct approach and experience. It doesn't come cheap. All in all, rallying in top level needs this kind of challenging roads. Tarmac is the ultimate test.

I don´t see my view on rallying as weird, if it´s me you point out.

Having the combination of very demanding challenging fast roads requiring, and also as you point, talent, correct settings, correct judged speed, experience of adapting speed, then it should be it. But IF, and that is what appears on my mind, one or more of those skill/settings isn´t there the outcome is more than hazardous to life for drivers and spectators and secondly of course material (money)on those tarmac stages. And still you think it´s part of the game. Too risky in my point of view, being spectator for more than 55 years.
The examples of crashes were too many in combination with spectators on wrong places. Only luck that no fatal accidents occured. So not my way of rallying it is.

[jparker]

Why does rally racing need to test driver's talent to adapt to bumps? This is not talent when I think of rallying.
Is WRC some kind of Super Mario game, or what?
Whoever wants bumps, Dakar Rally is wide open.

[electroliquid]

Why does rally racing need to test driver's talent to adapt to bumps? This is not talent when I think of rallying.
Is WRC some kind of Super Mario game, or what?
Whoever wants bumps, Dakar Rally is wide open.

Safety first, but if driver can't adapt to different roads and conditions and situations, circuit racing is wide open.

[jparker]

Safety first, but if driver can't adapt to different roads and conditions and situations, circuit racing is wide open.
Yes, but tarmac is supposed to be circuit version of rallying, or am I wrong?
Maybe co-drivers have to learn to pickup apples while they jump over bumps. That will show who is the most talented.

[electroliquid]

Yes, but tarmac is supposed to be circuit version of rallying, or am I wrong?

Maybe, but I never heard about public tarmac road build special for rally. ;) If some guys/girls had problems and other don't - it's more or less OK, if all have had problems - its too difficult, if none have problems it's too easy. Nobody says rallying is easy, but there are crew who do it anyway, some better than others.

[electroliquid]

But it's Kubica who is a world champion (WRC2) and not Lukyanuk, who cannot win ERC third year in a row...

That's true, but Kubica win against Al-Kuwari and Protasov, Lukyanuk fighting against Kajto and Breen. And also different levels of funding.

[jparker]

Maybe, but I never heard about public tarmac road build special for rally. ;) If some guys/girls had problems and other don't - it's more or less OK, if all have had problems - its too difficult, if none have problems it's too easy. Nobody says rallying is easy, but there are crew who do it anyway, some better than others.

Ok then, I'm all for bumps on F1 tracks then. That will show who the real talent in F1 is.

[electroliquid]

Maybe F1 would become interesting then, but I doubt that...

[Tarmop]

Yes, but tarmac is supposed to be circuit version of rallying, or am I wrong?

You are very wrong...

Apart from spectator safety, this is rallying at its best, seperates real drivers from the rest (surprise surprise, heavy foot isn`t the only key to succeed). All of them had the opportunity to recce the stages, didn`t they? A crash from these bumps is a simple pacenote error due to lack of experience or ones thinking ability. What would you all say when we had rally Kenya/ Safari or other physically and mentally demanding events?

[havk]

That's true, but Kubica win against Al-Kuwari and Protasov, Lukyanuk fighting against Kajto and Breen. And also different levels of funding.

That's not the whole picture... Al-Kuwari chose all possible rallies outside Europe (Mexico, Argentina, Australia - all of them he won), while Kubica did rallies only in Europe. In some of these rallies he had quite strong competition - enough to mention Paddon, Evans, Lappi, Ketomaa... Evans did 6 rallies in WRC2 that year and finished on 7 th position (two times not classified due to mechanical problems).

[jparker]

You are very wrong...

Apart from spectator safety, this is rallying at its best, seperates real drivers from the rest (surprise surprise, heavy foot isn`t the only key to succeed). All of them had the opportunity to recce the stages, didn`t they? A crash from these bumps is a simple pacenote error due to lack of experience or ones thinking ability. What would you all say when we had rally Kenya/ Safari or other physically and mentally demanding events?

So, your assumption is that rallying is only for experienced? The rest can be killed, no problem. What's wrong with you?

[Rally Power]

Honestly, this is like the rough gravel stages debate; some still loving them but most people is glad to use less mechanical demanding roads and fell organizers are wise to abandon the harder ones. Maybe some tarmac rally organizers could also be a bit more sensible by getting alternative roads to the rougher sections, which somehow they believe are more challenging.

Although is quite true that drivers must adapt to road conditions, probably there’s little challenge on having to ease up the pace because the road is so damn irregular it becomes too easy to damage your car; still it’s fair to say that those complicated segments only appears a couple of times in Rzeszow Rally videos and overall the stages looks pretty exciting.

Yep, we’ve to admit that road diversity is one of the main assets of this great sport. Otherwise how would ‘potatoes fields’ gravel sections be so common and apparently so popular in Belgium and Holland tarmac rallys?!?

[Mirek]

So, your assumption is that rallying is only for experienced? The rest can be killed, no problem. What's wrong with you?

How can You even come to such conclusion is beyond me.

Rallying was not born as a dirt racing sport. That's totally wrong perception coming from the fact that today's WRC is largely made of gravel events. Rallying was born on public roads and those are largely asphalt ones. Believe it or not there is more asphalt rallies in the world than gravel ones. That's because there is more asphalt public roads than gravel ones in rally countries. And it's perfectly ok and in line with rallying nature to race on such roads. There is absolutely nothing wrong about that.

Asphalt is difficult and so what? Maybe a bit more humbleness is needed from the drivers. It's not the road why they crash but it's because they don't drive the way to have things under control. The accidents often happen to remind the crews they are not that good as they think. The road isn't killing them. It's their own driving. It's their decision to take the risk and drive without having proper control of the situation.

Stages like those in Rzeszow, those in Ireland, those in Czech republic, Slovakia, Belgium, some in France, Croatia, Italy etc. have been used for ages. They didn't become a killer this weekend. They just caught out some drivers who weren't prepared or humble enough.

[Mirek]

Honestly, this is like the rough gravel stages debate; some still loving them but most people is glad to use less mechanical demanding roads and fell organizers are wise to abandon the harder ones. Maybe some tarmac rally organizers could also be a bit more sensible by getting alternative roads to the rougher sections, which somehow they believe are more challenging.

Have You watched footage from Rzeszow? The roads are not rough. The crashes were mostly caused by cutting where it was stupid to cut or by underestimating dirt thrown on the road by said cutting or by wrong pacenotes. Most of that is about experience and with that we are back to the humbleness. You don't try to be the fastest on top of Mt. Everest when You are there for the first time even when You climbed all other mountains around, do You?

[Tarmop]

So, your assumption is that rallying is only for experienced? The rest can be killed, no problem. What's wrong with you?

Now you are talking rubbish. I wish no harm to anyone and thankfully we can say that cars are safe. And yes, this is isn`t a local championship, it`s ERC, where one should be more experienced and ready to cope with different conditions that different countries have to offer.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Another point to bear in mind, this event was in the ERC... the European Rally Championship.

Not some village level rally for amateurs.

It's meant to be difficult.

[Rally Power]

Have You watched footage from Rzeszow? The roads are not rough. The crashes were mostly caused by cutting where it was stupid to cut or by underestimating dirt thrown on the road by said cutting or by wrong pacenotes. Most of that is about experience and with that we are back to the humbleness. You don't try to be the fastest on top of Mt. Everest when You are there for the first time even when You climbed all other mountains around, do You?

Apparently you've miss my point; from the videos (no other way to say) the stages looked great and only ONE or TWO segments seemed to be more problematic. In that specific cases, especially if organizers have records of previous accidents, it'd be sensible to avoid them or try to make them less tricky (by chicane use, for instance). It may not sound popular, but improving safety standards never is.

[Rallyper]

Apparently you've miss my point; from the videos (no other way to say) the stages looked great and only ONE or TWO segments seemed to be more problematic. In that specific cases, especially if organizers have records of previous accidents, it'd be sensible to avoid them or try to make them less tricky (by chicane use, for instance). It may not sound popular, but improving safety standards never is.

+10

@Mirek In Nordic countries rallying was born from narrow gravel roads. Not from tarmac. The speed back then was maybe half of what it is today.

Maybe a rethink of the whole sport could be one solution. Or, like Rally Power says, a more humble organizer should have put up some chicanes at the well known hard places. And some fences for spectators.

[dimviii]

But it's Kubica who is a world champion (WRC2) and not Lukyanuk, who cannot win ERC third year in a row...

Maybe you don't like Lukyanuk,but Kubica isn't different from Luky.

[Mirek]

@Mirek In Nordic countries rallying was born from narrow gravel roads. Not from tarmac. The speed back then was maybe half of what it is today.

Rallying was not born in nordic countries.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You'd think these were blind rallies !!

Crews do recce and write detailed pacenotes and have no excuse for not knowing 'difficult' sections.

(And the last thing we need are more artificial straw bale chicanes).

[Simmi]

Accelerator pedal works both ways too...

[Rallyper]

Rallying was not born in nordic countries.

Well, that´s an interesting question. However I said "in Nordic coutries rallies was born from narrow gravel roads" doesn´t need to mean rallying was born in Nordic countries. Even if tarmac was the historic surface doesn´t mean nowadays organizers are without responsibility having high dangerous rallies on tarmac knowing the fact that the speed is many times higher.

[Tarmop]

Well, but what was actually damaged in this rally, except cars? There`s a big difference between a crash and a crash. A high-speed roll seems violent but is usually much softer to the occupants than a fast stopping crash, which doesn`t always look half as bad.

[br21]

guys... during last Rally Finland there was one corner where 17 cars went out... it was gravel event... during this event organizer put many chicanes and everyone complained... and it didn't help... so your solutions are not good...
same there in Finland like last weekend in Rzeszow it was simply mistakes or lower level of crews which led to so many offs...
pity to say, but level of the forum is going down, I still read, but very rarely I reply as I have a feeling is waste of time...

[Hartusvuori]

It seems there are different philosophies to approach rallying and clearly those two ends don't meet now.

Personally I see as a sport where organizers prepare a route that the competitors must pass as fast as possible. What lies behind the next corner is for the competitor to survive. Variety is everything. Rallies shouldn't be about guaranteed finishing.

Speaking about foundations of rallying, it's obvious it's born from upper class past time fun in early 1900s Central Europe. Those rallies had hardly any similarities to rallying what we have known for the past 55-60 years or so. Nordic events come into picture when the modern speed tests, special stages, were introduced. It happened simultaneously in many countries, but Nordic rallies bear a role. To link this all to this current discussion, and to provoke a little, Nordic influence on rallying is what makes the tarmac events nowadays sooooo dangerous.

[Mirek]

I'm leaving here one short story from distant past.

I think it was in 1980 when Antonio Zanussi came to Zlín to take part in his first Barum rally. He didn't even start. He said he was not properly prepared for what he found in recce. He said he would return when he is ready. He was working hard to come back next year - for the victory achieved at first attempt. That's something which nobody achieved in the last ten years including roughly one half of current WRC drivers.

Most of todays "dangerous" route was run already in that time. The tyres were shit compared to today, the suspension was bad, brakes weak and the passive safety of the cars was better not to talk about.

[Jarek Z]

Maybe you don't like Lukyanuk,but Kubica isn't different from Luky.

Oh no, far from that. I like Lukyanuk's personality, positive attitude and admire his speed. I find him a true die-hard rally driver and a great attraction of each rally.

But... some part of me simply doesn't respect drivers who crash in every second rally. I can't help it, it's in my blood. I have always admired drivers who came to a rally and, without knowing the stages by heart, were able to win the event in the first attempt. Like Aghini, Basso, Travaglia, Rossetti and other great names of the past in the ERC. The drivers who crash in every second rally usually disappear from the stages very quickly. Do you remember Evgeny Novikov?

[Rally Power]

guys... during last Rally Finland there was one corner where 17 cars went out... it was gravel event... during this event organizer put many chicanes and everyone complained... and it didn't help... so your solutions are not good...
same there in Finland like last weekend in Rzeszow it was simply mistakes or lower level of crews which led to so many offs...
pity to say, but level of the forum is going down, I still read, but very rarely I reply as I have a feeling is waste of time...

With due respect br21, that’s not a very fair remark. If people, and especially insiders like you, can make more positive contributions why don’t they do it instead of moaning about how the forum level is getting down?

For sure my competitor experience was very limited (only a handful of events as driver or codriver in second level series) and so was my job as rally marshal, but I’ve learned a couple of things about the sport and one of them is that organizers can always try to improve safety.

Generally (not talking about Rzeszow anymore), if there’s the perfect notion that a specific stage point is too dangerous, organizers must act proactively; to get a couple of chicanes in those tricky spots can be a sensible solution. Apparently, that wasn’t the case in Finland, as chicanes were installed mainly to cope with FIA pressure to get average speed down.




Most of todays "dangerous" route was run already in that time. The tyres were shit compared to today, the suspension was bad, brakes weak and the passive safety of the cars was better not to talk about.

That’s true; still, looking for safer ways to run motorsport is part of its evolution and survival.

[Mirek]

That’s true; still, looking for safer ways to run motorsport is part of its evolution and survival.

There is no ultimate safety solution for rallying and absolutely not for the cost of loosing the character of particular events. Even drivers disagree with You. You can ask them and nearly all would tell You they love Pindula which is probably one of the most dangerous and bumpy stages in the world.

[Rallyper]

Rally Finland ended using the Humalamäki stage because of it´s danger. However gravel is a lot more forgiving surface for the drivers. Still many offs.
I´ll leave discussion here. We still have opposite thoughts. My point is a combination of safety for drivers AND spectators. Something I didn´t quite see on those vids from Poland.

[Hartusvuori]

Rally Finland ended using the Humalamäki stage because of it´s danger.

Parts of Humalamäki stage have been used on local events in recent years. I can not name single stage in Finland that would've been binned because it's too dangerous. Maybe Ouninpohja would be the first in line. It has reputation, and that is also why notably small number of crashes happen there, because drivers approach it with thought.

[AnttiL]

Parts of Humalamäki stage have been used on local events in recent years. I can not name single stage in Finland that would've been binned because it's too dangerous. Maybe Ouninpohja would be the first in line. It has reputation, and that is also why notably small number of crashes happen there, because drivers approach it with thought.

Humalamäki was mostly dangerous because of crowd control issues. Ouninpohja is sure fast but also has good road surface. Last year Bertelli had a big crash that took his codriver to hospital and it wasn't even on the classic fast section...

[jparker]

Personally I see as a sport where organizers prepare a route that the competitors must pass as fast as possible. What lies behind the next corner is for the competitor to survive. Variety is everything. Rallies shouldn't be about guaranteed finishing.

I general, I do agree with this statement, and I didn't try to make the opposite impression in this discussion, but .......
In this particular case, it's not "about variety", it's about crashing for sure if you don't slow down.
It's not about "guaranteed finishing", it's about guaranteed not finishing if you miss the place (which was very hard to spot) in the notes.
I'm sorry, but those few bumps were sending the car in the air, then landing in another bump, and then crash .......
As you said, the rally phylosopy is to pass all sections as fast as possible.
This particular place was all about slowing down. The only way to avoid crashing, was to slow down.
Experience in writing notes was the only skill tested here.
I don't think driver skills, or suspension setup could off avoided the crashes.
Things are not black and white as some here were trying to place them. Difficult/Technical sections yes, but not traps please.

Anyway, I'm also stepping out from this discussion.

[Rally Power]

Anyway, I'm also stepping out from this discussion.

Apparently I’m the last on this one and I’m sorry for the inconvenience, but aren’t those “tricky rally corner” lookalike videos the living proof that organizers can do better? If a rally stage turns into a crash parade won’t alarms go off? No matter if it’s on tarmac, gravel or snow, there should be a limit for the ‘it’s up to the drivers’ general principle, avoiding the sport to appear like a reckless freaky show. Or not.

[the sniper]

As you said, the rally phylosopy is to pass all sections as fast as possible.
This particular place was all about slowing down. The only way to avoid crashing, was to slow down.

Better get rid of corners then if slowing down is a problem...

What rallies would be left after your sanitisation of rallying. No Monte Carlo, can't be slowing for Ice. No Finland, can't be backing off to get over a jump. Pretty much no tarmac rallying in Ireland. No Rally Gb, might have to slow down for inconsistent grip on increasingly oversaturated mud? Your's is a bad road to go down, if you'll pardon the pun...

[COD]

The tyres were shit compared to today, the suspension was bad, brakes weak .

The speeds thus slower, and overall safety almost the same (exept of course the safety equipment). That is why they should limit suspension travel, aero and tyres on current cars

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How many of the actual top drivers from each catagory crashed at these 'tricky sections' in Rzeszow. Only one by my reckoning...

[Rallyper]

Better get rid of corners then if slowing down is a problem...

What rallies would be left after your sanitisation of rallying. No Monte Carlo, can't be slowing for Ice. No Finland, can't be backing off to get over a jump. Pretty much no tarmac rallying in Ireland. No Rally Gb, might have to slow down for inconsistent grip on increasingly oversaturated mud? Your's is a bad road to go down, if you'll pardon the pun...

Don´t mix things up. A rally without corners isn´t a rally. Not even a racing track. But. You obviously haven´t crashed a 50000 and up Euros car in a rally on places known as more than an off corner, have you? Easy to talk whithout experience from real world.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How many of the actual top drivers from each catagory crashed at these 'tricky sections' in Rzeszow. Only one by my reckoning...

My bad... in fact there were NONE !

Gryazin did crash on SS6, but didnt crash on the 'tricky' section, but just on a normal corner, running wide and hitting a bank...

https://i.imgur.com/5YgueTC.jpg

[stefanvv]

Gryazin is a top driver? First time I read this.

[Essaj]

Gryazin is a top driver? First time I read this.

For ERC gategory he sure is, sure he tends to crash alot but that's normal for a russian driver.
From the regular ERC drivers, who would you rate higher than him expect Kajetanovicz and Lukyanuk?
And again, his crash in Poland has nothing to do with those "dangerous" roads, just him missing the corner. <-- This might drop him from the 3rd best/fastest ERC driver =)

[stefanvv]

For ERC gategory he sure is, sure he tends to crash alot but that's normal for a russian driver.
From the regular ERC drivers, who would you rate higher than him expect Kajetanovicz and Lukyanuk?
And again, his crash in Poland has nothing to do with those "dangerous" roads, just him missing the corner. <-- This might drop him from the 3rd best/fastest ERC driver =)

Sure, I know he is fast, but "top driver"? What he'd done to achieve that title? I also know erc is not full of fast drivers, so
I guess it's a matter of numbers only?

[Essaj]

Sure, I know he is fast, but "top driver"? What he'd done to achieve that title? I also know erc is not full of fast drivers, so
I guess it's a matter of numbers only?

Yeah that's the problem here, you are top driver in ERC when you can afford to do it with R5. nonetheless he sure has some potential.
He hasn't achieved anything but he has been fast in almost every rally this year until mistakes/problems which led to him drop in standings.
This year he has won 1 rally in Latvia where he did beat Rovanpera fair and square even thought being little wild and almost crashing in couple places (that were caught on a cam) but still, speed is there. He just needs to stay on road.

[denkimi]

Don´t mix things up. A rally without corners isn´t a rally. Not even a racing track. But. You obviously haven´t crashed a 50000 and up Euros car in a rally on places known as more than an off corner, have you? Easy to talk whithout experience from real world.
it's up to the driver to know the "off corners", that's why we have recce.
and especially today, with the internet full of video's of "difficult rally corners", there's no excuse to not knowing where to be careful.

every corner, every bump, every cut, the difficulty is always the same. you have to determine how fast you can go through them without losing control or breaking the car. the big difference is how much room for error there is.

and i always say: if you can't afford to crash it, you shouldn't race it.

[stefanvv]

Yeah that's the problem here, you are top driver in ERC when you can afford to do it with R5 nonetheless he sure has some potential.
He hasn't achieved anything but he has been fast in almost every rally this year until mistakes/problems which led to him drop in standings.
This year he has won 1 rally in Latvia where he did beat Rovanpera fair and square even thought being little wild and almost crashing in couple places (that were caught on a cam) but still, speed is there. He just needs to stay on road.

Yes, fine we agree he has the speed. But not yet "top" on erc level. For me that would mean he was fighting for wins here and there by pure driving not others problems or anything. In Poland the top drivers were Luyanuk, Kajetanovich and Bouffier, in that order.

[Essaj]

Yes, fine we agree he has the speed. But not yet "top" on erc level. For me that would mean he was fighting for wins here and there by pure driving not others problems or anything. In Poland the top drivers were Luyanuk, Kajetanovich and Bouffier, in that order.

Again why count Lukyanuk here, he fking crashed on stage 2? Top drivers in Poland were Bouffier, Kajetanovicz and Griebel in that order, speed wise Lukyanuk was the fastest but he only managed 1 stage. Gryazin managed to finish 5 and speed wise was on bar with Kajto and Griebel but you actually need to finish the event.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to mention Ostberg here but he was in fight aswell. But he can skipped as a ERC driver.

[stefanvv]

Yes I meant erc drivers. So Ostberg doesn't count and probably Lukyanuk as this thread is in wrc section. But it is only virtual, we'll never know.....


EDIT: I already said my criteria for top driver, so I don't want to discuss that further. British fanboys have one criteria, others - other.

[the sniper]

You obviously haven´t crashed a 50000 and up Euros car in a rally on places known as more than an off corner, have you? Easy to talk whithout experience from real world.

How many of the Drivers who actually competed on Rally Rzeszow complained that the nature of the stages was unacceptable? How many said they wouldn't return? Are you more qualified to speak than the people who actually took part in the rally? Easy to talk without experience from Rally Rzeszow...

[Adler]

Regarding Gryazin: We had same test for Rallye Weiz, he looked bloody fast there, but I knew he won´t reach the finish with this driving style. He is superlate on the brakes, what threw him straight in the forest on SS2 already. On tarmac you have rarely consistant grip level, so I think you have to learn the different rallyes even better than on gravel, specially on first pass, before you go flat out.

But talent is there, money obviously as well, so he will develop I think.

[WUff1]

Shouldn´t this thread be moved to ERC forum?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Whatever the merits of Gryazin, the point I was making was that all the drivers crashing on the 'tricky sections' were NOT top drivers.

If they were then there may have been an argument that the stages were dangerous. But the top guys were all fine.

[Rallyper]

How many of the Drivers who actually competed on Rally Rzeszow complained that the nature of the stages was unacceptable? How many said they wouldn't return? Are you more qualified to speak than the people who actually took part in the rally? Easy to talk without experience from Rally Rzeszow...

I can speak for drivers crashing their car. Own experience. And you heard all drivers views?

[Mirek]

You can speak for you crashing your car. I don't remember you crashed your car in Rzeszow, did you?

Otherwise please don't speak for someone who never asked you to do so.

[Rallyper]

You can speak for you crashing your car. I don't remember you crashed your car in Rzeszow, did you?

Otherwise please don't speak for someone who never asked you to do so.

??? Isn´t it an open discussion going on here? Nor did anyone on this forum so ... Pls calm down.

[Tarmop]

Well, opinion yes, but this is irrelevant.

[Rally Power]

What’s relevant is that we all love Rally and this forum is a great way to share our common passion, no matter how different our views can be sometimes.

Btw, will Luky be on Barum? I hope this crash in Poland won’t slow down his full recovery. Fingers crossed for him!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shouldn´t this thread be moved to ERC forum?

Yep... there's no chance of Lukyanuk ever driving in WRC now.

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLjCPH8WAAI5pnJ?format=jpg&name=large

[itix]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLjCPH8WAAI5pnJ?format=jpg&name=largeOh wow... Is he all right? Leipaia (or however you spell it?).

[Rallyper]

Follow discussion on European Championship Forum. Organizers did appearantly mess upp on MM stage.

[Andre Oliveira]

Lukyanuk with my friend Hugo Magalhães in Spain (Rally Astarga) in Suzuki Swift R+ (N5 rules).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For any who missed it, Alexey Lukyanuk is the 2018 European Rally Champion. :champion:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnulYa-X0AArF00.jpg:large

And rock star ! :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpYrx7pXcAAgQKv.jpg:large

Rumours/hopes he could enter WRC2 next year. :)

"I do not have plans yet for 2019. I really like the ERC environment, it's very calm, very friendly, the challenge and the drivers are good, but in the World Cup, it's different, it's much harder and more challenging, but we have to move forward, "Lukyanuk, who explained that he now needs to double his budget this year, to move to WRC2:" We also need to prepare better the tests, develop the car and my driving style. At ERC we do not even have tests, we went from rally to rally. In WRC2 it is not possible to compete without tests so this requires an extension of the testing program which will be a priority. If it does, I'll be happy. "

[sindroms]

Lukyanuk could be on Sweden WRC2 entry list.
The news came out today that he would take part in "Rally Alūksne" 18.-19.01. 2019. (Latvia, 1st leg of Latvian and Estonian championship) to get some mileage before Sweden probably.

[Sulland]

In my opinion it is time Lukyanuk get a chance in WRC2. He has proved himself in ERC!
Maybe in a C3?

[the sniper]

Estonia would seem like a golden opportunity to do well on a WRC event. Given the lack of sponsors on the car, can we presume that his season is being largely funded by Citroen and Total this year?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@AlexeyLukyanuk
Thanks for your support !

#SaintelocRacing #CitroenRacing #C3R5 #TotalRacing #octaneclub #Pirelli #AutoSportMediaRU #spacetravel

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen have given the main WRC2 gig to Østberg.

[pantealex]

Citroen have given the main WRC2 gig to Østberg.

But they should have 2 cars for WRC2 Teams Championship...

I don´t think that Lukyanuk is best "free" driver out there, Pirelli driver Mikkelsen would be best choice.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The other problem is Lukyanuk doesnt know the WRC events. He's always just done ERC and its too late to learn now.

[EstWRC]

Meh, scrap that WRC2 idea.

I want to see him in the WRC car

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meh, scrap that WRC2 idea.

I want to see him in the WRC car

Are you going to pay the bills !? :D

[dimviii]

Meh, scrap that WRC2 idea.

I want to see him in the WRC car

+1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Remember... https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-winner-lukyanuk-out-of-finland-after-testing-shunt/

[dimviii]

Remember... https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-winner-lukyanuk-out-of-finland-after-testing-shunt/

right,maybe its better to sent Ingram.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

right,maybe its better to sent Ingram.

At least he wouldnt throw it off the road every other rally.

[cali]

At least he wouldnt throw it off the road every other rally.But with no real speed...sorry to break the bad news for you but no big talent there. Solid driver but lacks almost in all areas against Luky

Luky is poor man's McRae and we didn't surely hate Colin's performance quite the contrary everybody (almost) loved him as a top competitor and entertainer

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[the sniper]

Luky is poor man's McRae and we didn't surely hate Colin's performance quite the contrary everybody (almost) loved him as a top competitor and entertainer

One of the many things I like about Oliver Solberg is that he's such a fan of Lukyanuk. Lukyanuk is a guy who deserves to be admired, he's this generation's McRae, but without the opportunities that were afforded to Colin. I'd love to think there are a generation of future drivers watching Lukyanuk videos on You Tube and wishing to emulate him.

[dimviii]

Lukys case imho is unique.
An ''old man'',not from a rally oriented country,without serious backup,entered erc, and was out of the box fast at any rally he competed.Most of them he drove for first time,against erc and national strong drivers.All them with a Czech private fiesta,and a c3,against plenty of fabias,the best car at least at those days.
Huge respect from me.Big balled driver,even at his interviews,always honest.

its the kind of driver that you have to watch,no matter results.
Wish we had more like him.

[Humber]

Lukyanuk dented the WRC Fiesta https://www.wrc.com/en/news/news-archive/wrc/test-crash-sidelines-lukyanuk-in-finland/ (check out the jump pick)

Hyundai is seeking to acquire the 230K unit capacity former General Motors factory in Russia, that operated between 2008 and 2015. Hyundai already has a Russian factory operating since 2011.
Will Adamo be instructed to rotate a Russian driver in the wrc r1 or r2 lineup, by the marketing department? Be loose change for a Gazprom backing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En7EfDbW8AIAUzi?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A message from Alexey Lukyanuk:

We do not need war. We are for sport, friendship and peace. I have Ukrainian family name, though live in Russia. My co-driver’s wife is half Ukrainian with relatives there. We’ve got a question on one of the forums, if we plan any participation.

We have friends and relatives on both sides of the border. We vote for peace. In 2015 my crew was already using the peaceful livery. And now we need peace first, we hope for and believe in the rapid peaceful solution. While the people keep dying, there would be no rallies for us.

[flykas]

A message from Alexey Lukyanuk:

We do not need war. We are for sport, friendship and peace. I have Ukrainian family name, though live in Russia. My co-driver’s wife is half Ukrainian with relatives there. We’ve got a question on one of the forums, if we plan any participation.

We have friends and relatives on both sides of the border. We vote for peace. In 2015 my crew was already using the peaceful livery. And now we need peace first, we hope for and believe in the rapid peaceful solution. While the people keep dying, there would be no rallies for us.

Very well, I wonder what abput Gryazin, I hope he will also stop.

[Walach]

The only thing he managed was to stop people commenting his latest instagram post

[dimviii]

The only thing he managed was to stop people commenting his latest instagram post

explain please.

[Walach]

Gryazin deleted one of his posts where he asked the fans to name some mascot on his car, after some folks were suggesting “Javelin” or “Vladimir”, and disabled the comments option for few other recent posts.

[Got Mail]

Gryazin deleted one of his posts where he asked the fans to name some mascot on his car, after some folks were suggesting “Javelin” or “Vladimir”, and disabled the comments option for few other recent posts.

Nikolay does not run his own social media.

I think you will find that he will pause his WRC/ERC campaigns for the time being.

[Lancia Stratos]

Nikolay does not run his own social media.

I think you will find that he will pause his WRC/ERC campaigns for the time being.

He has withdrawn from the rally in Fafe next week.