Jim Clark rally

[makinen_fan]

Not the best of news from the rally I am afraid, and the worst way for the sport to top the news in BBC once again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27651504

[driveace]

Really bad news ,we all need to listen to marshals and keep well back from the action
Again Motorsport can be dangerous !

[the sniper]

Autosport's David Evans is saying in his article that three have died, one more in a critical condition. Thoughts go out to all those involved. More bad news for British rallying...

[Allyc85]

Horrible to see this confirmed, thoughts are with all :(

RIP

[tommeke_B]

Very sad news indeed... Thoughts to all involved... :(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The only closed-road event on the UK mainland and this happens. Tragedy and although its not the cause, the end of hopes for any more now. :(

[Francis44]

Horrible news :(. Thoughts to all involved.

R.I.P.

[noel157]

Sad news, best wishes to those injured in both accidents, thoughts with family and friends of those lost.

[BDunnell]

The only closed-road event on the UK mainland and this happens. Tragedy and although its not the cause, the end of hopes for any more now. :(

My first thought exactly, I'm afraid to say.

[driveace]

Really sad news from yesterday's event.I spectated on that stage last year,by the farmhouse at the top,then down by the narrow bridge in the bottom,then where the jump is ,just higher up. There was a car took off on the jump last year and was taking off up the banking but luckily he got it back on the road ,but even on that day there was a shortage of marshals and spectators were not keeping well back or ignored instructions from the marshals. Very sad AND condolences to all the families involved in this tragic accident,our thoughts are with you all

[Juha_Koo]

The only closed-road event on the UK mainland and this happens. Tragedy and although its not the cause, the end of hopes for any more now. :(

I have to ask about this because I don't understand why people are referring to it as "closed-road event". What is a closed-road event?

I don't understand, because all rallies (special stages) are driven on closed roads... What does that phrase mean in this context?

Condolences to all involved.

[AndyRAC]

A public road closed for Motorsport - closing a road for events in the UK isn't too much of a problem; the problem is postponing the Act of Parliament; which the JCMR did back in 1999, the only event on the UK mainland like this. The Isle of Mull has an event, and there is the Isle of Man with many 'closed road' events.

[MrJan]

I have to ask about this because I don't understand why people are referring to it as "closed-road event". What is a closed-road event?

I don't understand, because all rallies (special stages) are driven on closed roads... What does that phrase mean in this context?

Condolences to all involved.

Rallies in England are generally on private land, the Jim Clark is the only event on the mainland that uses normal roads that would usually be open to the public. This is because you can't just close the roads as the speed limit still stands, to get this lifted requires an Act of Parliament which is not easy to get. The MSA are currently trying to get this outdated law changed, but a tragedy like this will probably mean that they won't get anywhere.

So sad to hear about accidents such as these and thoughts go out to all involved. Does anyone know what car was involved? A guy that I know from our motor club was competing in the event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Car involved is still at the scene...

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75226000/jpg/_75226819_paulmeegan1.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75226000/jpg/_75226821_022491518-2.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/75229000/jpg/_75229439_sunrally.jpg

[Juha_Koo]

Rallies in England are generally on private land, the Jim Clark is the only event on the mainland that uses normal roads that would usually be open to the public. This is because you can't just close the roads as the speed limit still stands, to get this lifted requires an Act of Parliament which is not easy to get. The MSA are currently trying to get this outdated law changed, but a tragedy like this will probably mean that they won't get anywhere.

So sad to hear about accidents such as these and thoughts go out to all involved. Does anyone know what car was involved? A guy that I know from our motor club was competing in the event.

Thank you.


Car involved is still at the scene...

DS3 R3T...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Craig Breen was seriously unimpressed by the coverage...

‏@Craig_Breen : The papers this morning are disgusting. Why does it take something like this to make it interesting to the media? Just disgraceful....

This was the Irish Sun: :(

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpFJaJXIUAA3rD3.jpg

Some responses:

Richard Price ‏@rsprice333 9h
@IrishSunOnline sick sick sick.. Give the lads some privacy for gods sake. You are never to quick to report on the good things of the sport.

Shaun Mallon ‏@shaunmallon 7h
@IrishSunOnline disgusting front page shameful gutter press

IFOX95 ‏@95IFOX 7h
@irishsunonline .a disgraceful narrow minded headline ..always report bad news ,never the good news of achievements of Irish drivers #sick

[Langdale Forest]

Just shows what a disrespectful paper the sun is, but to be expected from a Rupert Murdoch paper.

[Allyc85]

Be careful what you say chaps, the scum press have been reading forums and have been directly quoting what people have been saying.

But from what some have said, it seems some people are even lying just to get in the press...

https://twitter.com/p_mcpartlin/status/473576271939923968

[Mirek]

Yes, the same happened in our country in similar consequences. We have had fake witnesses and even fake "experienced rally drivers" speaking not only to clearly yellow media but also on some country-wide TV stations etc. It's disgusting but on the other hand in the moment when You are an insider You can finally clearly see the media power and the level of manipulation they can create in any topic...

[Langdale Forest]

Shocking that people are trying to blame people for what was an accident, as NOWHERE is safe near a rally stage.

[Tom206wrc]

R.I.P. to the spectators and condolences to their families and friends ;(

[satnav]

Shocking that people are trying to blame people for what was an accident, as NOWHERE is safe near a rally stage.

Just to say R.I.P to all involved and thoughts are with the family and friends and Driver and Co-driver also very well said Langdale.

[MrJan]

Report now out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-30695702

Not sure I can see the idea of mandatory training for marshals working, think that it'll lead to less marshals on stages and more rallies being cancelled. It's difficult enough to get marshals interested anyway, without making them have to go through training days, this is only going to lead to further expense.

[J4MIE]

This isn't the report into the Jim Clark Rally accident (s), but a report into the safety of rallying in Scotland. The Jim Clark accident is still being investigated by the police etc.

[makinen_fan]

According to iRallylive the Jim Clark rally will go into the Kielder forest next year:
http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00007819

[Jack4688`]

Hmmm, with it being so close to the Richard Burns Pirelli Rally and the Dmack Carlisle Stages it doesn't sound like such a good idea, though they do at least hope to be back on closed roads ASAP. I'd like to see them use the stages north of the border like Wauchope or any of the others used on the Border Counties Rally, but are they technically part of Kielder Forest Park?

[J4MIE]

Technically, even Newcastleton & Kershope aren't in "Kielder", but are generally regarded as being such.

As long as they use different parts, I don't see it being a big problem. With no British Rally Championship running this year, I'm not sure how big the Pirelli will be but most likely using stages around Hopehouse etc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

AN OPEN LETTER FROM THE MSA CHIEF EXECUTIVE 19 FEB 2015

This weekend marks the second anniversary of the tragic death of a spectator on the Snowman Rally, and of course on the Jim Clark Rally in 2014 three more spectators lost their lives in equally tragic circumstances.

As a result the Scottish Government, following an emergency debate in the Scottish Parliament, commissioned a major review of safety on stage rallies. This Scottish Government Motorsport Event Safety Review published its final report in January, and the MSA has since gone on record confirming its commitment to the implementation of the report’s recommendations, not only in Scotland but throughout the UK.

Clearly, there is going to be a period of transition while everyone concerned works as hard as possible to introduce the recommended changes. In the interim, I need to remind all spectators of the fact that they are ultimately responsible for their own personal safety.

I say this because despite these well-publicised tragedies, and despite the sport being well aware of the changes being brought about by the Scottish Review, I am astonished and dismayed that an irresponsible minority – and I stress minority – of spectators continue to display a wanton disregard for their own personal well-being.

This was brought home to me when viewing YouTube clips of last weekend’s Wyedean Forest Rally, and also from the truly shocking photograph from the same rally in yesterday’s Motorsport News (18 February, page 34) of a ‘spectator’ lying flat on the ground on the edge of the forest track, apparently taking a photograph extremely close to a competing vehicle.

This behaviour not only shows a complete disregard for personal safety but in addition places other spectators, officials and competing crews in danger. It also undermines the considerable efforts of the dedicated rally organisers, officials and marshals, who do all they can to ensure that events run as safely as possible.

The MSA is currently working on a daily basis with all other stakeholders in rallying, particularly the Forestry Commission, and I can confirm from discussions within the last few days that unless these few idiotic spectators concerned change their attitude immediately and behave responsibly, there will be no future for stage rallying in the UK. I am not talking about next year, or the year after; I am talking about right now. Even in the meantime, this sort of behaviour will mean that stages are cancelled and rallies disrupted or even stopped.

Please, for the sake of rallying in the UK, can all spectators take full responsibility not only for ensuring their own personal safety but also the future of the sport we all love.

Yours in motor sport,

Rob Jones
CHIEF EXECUTIVE

[AndyRAC]

Motorsport is dangerous, you attend at your own risk.
Should organisers be held accountable for the actions of idiotic spectators? No, they shouldn't, but sadly it doesn't work like that.
What has puzzled me though, the very real threat of them banning the sport - as outlined above in the MSA letter. Why? Are speccies killed every weekend? If this was the case, I'd understand.
One injury/ fatality is too many, but 2 serious incidents in 2 years, and they're talking of banning the sport? No offence, but that is a slight overreaction.
Organisers, marshals, volunteers and most spectators care about the sport; and act, and behave responsibly; if idiots want to stand in stupid places, what are you supposed to do? Cancel stages? You can have plans, but you surely can't police the whole stage. And, sometimes, these things do happen.

[MrJan]

Motorsport is dangerous, you attend at your own risk.
Should organisers be held accountable for the actions of idiotic spectators? No, they shouldn't, but sadly it doesn't work like that.

They are if the spectators have paid, and I think that everyone on a rally has a degree of responsibility. The reaction is a bit knee jerk though, I think that one of the easiest way to reduce this is to simply call off a stage that's got too many people in silly places. If Speech House had been aborted on the Wyedean then it would set a precedent and the spectators would soon start making a better job of policing themselves (and others) if there was a very real threat of stages being cancelled. THe downside of course is that competitors pay for stage miles and would expect a refund, which throws you in to all kinds of problems. However I don't think it would take too many cancellations before you'd see the effects.

In regards to banning the sport, I don't think that's come into it, it's actually more of an issue relating to landowners not wanting to be associated any more. I know of one rally that was held on the same weekend as the Wyedean that was pulled in the middle of the event at the request of the landowners

[Lousada]

By cancelling stages you only punish all the good guys like the drivers, the volunteers and all the well-behaving spectators. A rally stage is long and only the people at the very corner with the mis-behaving spectators know the reason a rally stage is cancelled. For all the others there is just a big bunch of frustration when they invested all that time and money just to find out at the very last moment the stage is cancelled.

In my opinion they could make the timing less strict. That way they would have time to temporarily stop the stage and send an extra zero car around the stage or something like that. Also a good punishment would be if those spectators found in violation be escorted to the finishline for the remainder of the stage. Always punish the offenders, not the good guys in my opinion.

[MrJan]

By cancelling stages you only punish all the good guys like the drivers, the volunteers and all the well-behaving spectators. A rally stage is long and only the people at the very corner with the mis-behaving spectators know the reason a rally stage is cancelled. For all the others there is just a big bunch of frustration when they invested all that time and money just to find out at the very last moment the stage is cancelled.

Better to cancel the odd stage than to not have a rally at all though, which is what will happen if things continue as they are.

[makinen_fan]

A week ago MSA issued the long awaited Safety review after the fatal accidents from last year. Link is here:
https://www.msauk.org/assets/2015rallyreqs.pdf

I have not read the whole thing, but it seems it requires much more effort from organisers and number of marshals to ensure spectator safety. Neath Valley stages rally which is run in August is already cancelled mainly because of this safety review and the organisers are unable to implement all these in time.
Lets see how this will pan out in the future, but it does not look good for the small events.

[MrJan]

As someone who is involved in organising hillclimbs/sprints we've been told that a low number of marshals will lead to an event being cancelled. The trouble is that people don't want to volunteer, and small clubs like us can't offer payment at a standing rate, so we're desperately trying to come up with ways to get people involved. The best we've got is that we offer a raffle prize at the end of the season (a trackday experience for 1st, £100 for 2nd and £50 for third). Essentially any time someone marshals an event for us they get a 'ticket' to the draw (minimum of two events). The more times they marshal, the more chance of winning the prize. We haven't seen the results yet but hopefully it will be a good way to get more people involved.

I think that speed events are going to see more cases of drivers having to marshal in between their runs, simply to supplement the number of volunteers. Of course that just isn't viable for a rally.

[AndyRAC]

Safety is paramount, but I honestly feel they're using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I can see lots of events pulling the plug....

[MrJan]

Safety is paramount, but I honestly feel they're using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I can see lots of events pulling the plug....

Think I've said before that the problem is landowners, since the Jim Clark and the Wyedean most of them want to see the nut being obliterated with dynamite.

The problem is that there is still a bit of an old school feel, until recently my club didn't even email members about upcoming events. One guy that looks after the marshalling for us was bemoaning a different club for having more marshals than us, but of a lower standard. My point to him was that I would far rather have an accident in front of someone inexperienced than to have it in front of no one at all.

[cabaye2]

We have had fake witnesses and even fake experienced rally drivers speaking not only to clearly yellow media but also on some country wide TV stations etc.