C class handling issues

[luke]

I have a 2011 w204 c class.

I'm really happy with it but the handling is very odd and I was hoping other owners could tell me if it's normal.

I do a lot of motorway driving and I find the car is constantly pulling in one direction or the other.

When the road cambers or if there is any crown in the road, I have to steer into the camber/crown. In order to drive in a straight line, It's as if I have to keep the steering wheel level with the horizon as the car rolls with the camber/crown. Is this normal?

It's driving me nuts. On occasion i have to use opposite lock on very shallow bends, where the camber is pronounced.

If it's not normal could anyone give me advice as to what may be wrong?

Cheers in advance,
Luke

[D-Type]

I'm not a mechanic, but I have owned several old cars

(1) The obvious: check your tyre pressures at a couple of different service stations from your regular one. There is no guarantee that any gauge is correct but if there's a measure of agreement they are probably OK. Or buy a decent gauge.
(2) Have the shock absorbers (dampers) checked
(3) Have the rubber bushes in the suspension joints checked. They soften the shock loads between the different elements and improve compliance. But if they wear or start to disintegrate, then there will be play in the joints.
(4) Have wheel bearings checked.
(5) Wheel balance
(6) Tracking

[janvanvurpa]

I am a mechanic and I make suspension for rally cars..People like to talk of all kinds of crazy things but I stress castor a lot..without castor a car wants to not self center...and wants to wander away...

Slop in ball joints, wear in bushings and Mercedes does seem to have a lot of bushings...and ball joints...

Naturally check for grossly over inflated tires...don't fret the gauges at the pump, have your own gauge and get 'em even. Verify that the tires aren't worn insanely on the edges...

[D-Type]

I think your "Castor" is my "Tracking"

[driveace]

Well we have caster,camber,and King pin inclination !
When I was a mechanic 53 years ago we used to check all the above plus tracking as well.
I also have a 2012 Mercedes C Class C220 sport ,on very low profile tyres,I don't notice any problem with the steering at all ,The warning light came on as I sensed I was falling asleep.The suspension is brilliant,and to me it looks like they do have a fair amount of caster angle too

[janvanvurpa]

I think your "Castor" is my "Tracking"

My castor is your castor. Normal 'merikun castor is caster....I have spelt funny since I was a weeeeee laddie dis high. I can't say THs to save my life, comes out "d"...or sometimes "f" as in Up Norf, eh?

Tracking could be "toe set" or just "toe"...

Dun't know if its adjustable on your car..
On superior cars, such as the mighty Saab 96 V4, its easy, select fit shims under the upper control arm mounts..

Few things lead to cars wandering off...they don't get Alzheimer's.

Worn junk usually means some single condition, like "pulls left" or darts that-a-way...Balance you feel in the steering wheel, real worn things lead to clucks and noise...
(I have always driver older beater cars, just don't see the point and since I can fix or build anything from 2 stroke dirt bikes to 10,500 SHP 2600 rpm V20 diesels I just buy older cars for cheap and keep 'em going..cheap or free.., so lots of experience with tired suspension---and also with bending things in the woods on rallies.)

Check the easy stuff, visually check the tires for spastic wear and report back.

[driveace]

You mention "Toe"
Well we have toe in ,which is how to set the steering usually 1/8 th in on the front wheels ,as they level out at speed on a REAR wheel drive car .AND toe OUT which we set 1/8 th out for front wheel drive cars,this is because with front wheel drive cars at speed the front wheels are dragging forwards to again level the track

[janvanvurpa]

You mention "Toe"
Well we have toe in ,which is how to set the steering usually 1/8 th in on the front wheels ,as they level out at speed on a REAR wheel drive car .AND toe OUT which we set 1/8 th out for front wheel drive cars,this is because with front wheel drive cars at speed the front wheels are dragging forwards to again level the track

Wrong on FWD cars.... MOST FWD cars I have worked on have toe IN just for the same reasons as RWD cars: bushing compliance. As cars go forward the bushes give a bit and the arms go slightly rearward and toe in at 2mm becomes toe in 1mm...
Toe OUT in front is just flat weird.

SOME track or parking lot heroes scream about toe OUT "for sharper steering response but again that is crazy and if they thought---a big IF when it comes to parking lot cone squishers, and looked at their own feet they could see that when the wheels point OUT there is no initiation of turn until the outside tire crosses over the center (seen from above) then suddenly the car seems to dart into the corner but PRIOR the steering is vague and dead...

But what do I know :), just worked on FWD performance cars for 20 years---and rallied them too.

[driveace]

Still stick to my earlier post RWD Toe In
FWD cars toe out
Any I have worked on race and rally cars too ,worked on cars for 56 years,and it's always been the same.
What do you toe in rear wheels then for racing cars ,or do you toe those out ?

[janvanvurpa]

Stick with whatever you want, but don't make up blanket statements "IT has always been the same if you don't want to be corrected

Example--going back in time;
Saab 96..............2mm +-1mm IN----from factory service manual
Saab 99...............1mm +-1....IN from factory service manual
Saab 900.............2mm +- 1mm IN--from Bentley reprint of factory service manual
Golf MkII.............1mm in to 3.5 out.....from GB issue Haynes---VW doesn't care evidently
Peugeot 205........Wheel alignment and steering angles
Front wheel toe setting:
All models, except GTI and automatic transmission - up to 1988 . . . 3.0 ± 1.0 mm toe-in
1.6 GTI models - up to 1988 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.0 ± 1.0 mm toe-in
1.9 GTI models - up to 1988 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 ± 1.0 mm toe-in
Automatic transmission models - up to 1988 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.5 ± 1.0 mm toe-in
All models from 1988 onward . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.0 ± 0.5 mm toe-in

I have no idea what the hairdressers who play with "racing" cars do for whatever reasons they do things, I believe it is mainly because the simpering drivewrs have lisped some complaint..

I do know that Ford motorsport says O toe to a few % of a degree in on the rally Sierras 2wd, 4x4 and Escort Cossie on the surface that adult men chose to compete on: Gravel..

I can go on and on but I think you see how "it's ALWAYS been that way" has been demonstrated to be completely false.

[driveace]

Never mentioned the worlds greatest FWD car the Mini.Rauno Aaltonen drove one too ,he always said level to 1 degree toe out .But then I suppose he was another hairdresser driver in your eyes !

[driveace]

The question was about C Class steering and handling ! Have you got a C Class ,do you know about it's steering and handling capabilities ? I do have a C Class !
Give the questioner your views as you must be the guy / specialist he is looking for

[zako85]

I would suggest switching to C++. C was not designed with classes and OOP in mind.

[janvanvurpa]

Hey ace, you're getting ridiculous about this. You're doing the whole typical damn thing which ruins all forums.
The guy asked a question. he gets a lot of general fluff which was "have somebody check everything".
I mention toe setting..

You make a preposterous BLANKET FLAT STATEMENT : "FWD toe has ALWAYS been out, that's the way its been forever"..,.
I know what the subject is---but just like in real life if you was at the corner pub and just chatting wif da mates about Fred's C class thing wandering around---and some yob loudly and confidently states some silly thing---like "ALL FWD CARS HAVE ALWAYS HAD TOE OUT".......

Would you not expect the whole pub to go silent and somebody --who obviously knows better...because they worked on better things---to correct you?

Why is it that you have to try to cling to this unimportant thing that you claimed?
(I only replied because it is such a strangle thing I hear people claiming here so often--very similar to all the parts of USA where people all say "If you have a LSD in the car, when it snows yer gunna drive STRAIGHT into the ditch, yep yep"---a truly bizarre observation for one who has been in or around rally for 30 years)


Seriously.
Why can't you just say OH s**t I din't know that (some superior cars such as the mighty Saab 96 which led the way, was displaced by Mini , then came back and annihilated Mini and went on to win WRC events for another 10 years after the last Mini---).

All I did was walked to the shop---downstairs--bookcase and confirmed things were NOT ALL out as ALWAYS...

And you're having a big argument.

Relax Ace, you'll live longer..
Learn to say "Oh. s**t, I din't know...cool, now I do, thanks!"

[driveace]

There is a big difference between the old SAAB 96 with the 3 cylinder engine,and then the one with the V4 FORD Taurus engine ,of the 60s and a modern day Mercedes Benz C Class .A modern day rear wheel drive Mercedes handles completely different from a 1960 to 1980s SAAB .And what of the modern day SAAB ,and who actually owns them now ?You said Caster may be his problem ,didnt tell him the settings for it ! Unless his Merc is very high mileage there should be no bushing problems either. I dont stress at nearly 74 and as fit as a butchers dog,I definitely don,t stress !
would you class Rauno Aaltonen as a Gentleman driver or a Hairdresser ?
So unless anyone else has anymore advice for the Mercedes driver subject finished janvanvurpa ?

[janvanvurpa]

There is a big difference between the old SAAB 96 with the 3 cylinder engine,and then the one with the V4 FORD Taurus engine ,of the 60s and a modern day Mercedes Benz C Class .
A modern day rear wheel drive Mercedes handles completely different from a 1960 to 1980s SAAB .
And what of the modern day SAAB ,and who actually owns them now ?

You said Caster may be his problem ,didnt tell him the settings for it ! Unless his Merc is very high mileage there should be no bushing problems either.
I dont stress at nearly 74 and as fit as a butchers dog,I definitely don,t stress !
would you class Rauno Aaltonen as a Gentleman driver or a Hairdresser ?
So unless anyone else has anymore advice for the Mercedes driver subject finished janvanvurpa ?

Bush compliance is bush compliance Car goes this way----------> rubber bushed parts go this way <-------.
The degree they go <----------depends on the harness of the rubber or PU, the diameter of the bush, the age of the bush and the rubber to void---if any ---ratio.

Finished? You ask questions and then state general obvious things in a flat absolute way..

And, as always, as expected once simple emotionless DATA is posted, not a peep about the data refutes your blanklet statements..

Aaltonen, no he was no hairdresser, he was a man, a rally man...not a simpering mincing roadracer.
There is a difference..

And working back to the first line "There is a big difference between the old 2 stroke Saab and the mighty V4 powered one... As the kids on the web say "Well duh!"

By the end of the 2 stroke powered cars here's all the differences: an extra hole was stamped for the exhaust of the V motor. Clutch went from 160mm to 190mm. Final drive ratio went from 5.43 to 4.88.
Front springs stiffer for the 130 lbs more weight V4 to 2t.....
Big difference.. In 1969 the diameter of the countershaft in the box was upped to 20mm . And in 1974 again to 22mm. The spline count was changed on the inner stub shafts going into the diff. Gearbox housing got "ribs". back cover got 7 bolts...

You have a few years on me but I worked 10-14 hours a day on Saab 96/95 (the estate version) and 97s (the horrible little sports car called Sonett) from 1980 to 2000..

You really think you can make blanket statement the Mini was the "greatest" FWD car in the world and not get poked at? Mini was great---but it also had great Press....and rabid, mad cult following.. I REALLY like Minis, driven thousands of miles on British lanes in them as "designated driver" when on real ale safaris on the other side of London from you..
But the 96 was a much superior car in every way*---as the record shows in Whirled Rally Champignonskit..where it was winning events 10 years later than Mini.




*In every way except driving "fast" down lanes with those damn hedges...


And as for your haughty "subject finished".. Maybe you think that you can control the ebb and flow of conversations but sorry, just like in real life conversations, chatting, yakking conversations turn and evole..
So subject finished?
Depends on if you want to converse, or if you want to make pronouncements.
You want to make pronouncements, then yeah its finished.

[Zeakiwi]

What version of the MB w204 is this?
Was the car purchased new? Cars are sometimes damaged when they are transported new from the factory to the dealer and patched up for sale.
When was the wheel alignment checked? Some people are better at doing wheel alignments than other people even with the same equipment.

Get the steering checked tyres back to the steering wheel.

[driveace]

Whats a simpering,whimpering road racer Then ?
There is Le-Mans that,s a road race!,Then the Manx Rally ,That,s a road race!Then the Circuit of Ireland ,That,s a road race !There are lots of road race ,the Jim Clark Rally ,that,s a road race too ,SO are ALL these competitors who put their money,effort,time,into competing in all the events on TARMAC Simpering,whimpering,road racers ?
Do you also mean World Rally Championships ?
14 hours a day on SAAB 96s ? Do they require such a large amount of effort and work,and expertise ?

[janvanvurpa]

Take your meds Ace. If you can't distinguish between driving in little circuits 100 laps and driving an asphalt rally stretching all over the countryside done is stages, then there's little point is discussion...

no great loss because when a person makes a blanket statement loudly, if corrected, and fails to even acknowledge that he was spouting bilge, we know there's no interest in discussion, or even humor.

If you're out of meds, have the wife ring in for a re-fill of BIG pills.

[driveace]

Did you answer the question of what is a "Simpering ,Whimpering,roadracer" Then ? Your words not mine !
AND is a "Whirled Rally Champignonskit" a World Rally Championship ? Your words not mine !
Bet your blood is boiling !

[janvanvurpa]

Did you answer the question of what is a "Simpering ,Whimpering,roadracer" Then ? Your words not mine !
AND is a "Whirled Rally Champignonskit" a World Rally Championship ? Your words not mine !
Bet your blood is boiling !


Yeah I think it was clear enough: circuit "racers' are---in my limited experience of 50 years around motorsports---not just CAR motosports mind you--- but those people doing "roadracing" --the generally accepted term even in many other languages is "racing"-----where people do a bunch of laps on asphalt or concrete---are too too often whining spoiled drama queen or prima-donna. Like hairdressers in the classic, rude, ridiculing cliche which really isn't PC now.

As for the WRC I am going to guess that you are only conversant in one form of English....


Since you can't be troubled to break the word up into its components and make an effort at thinking about it...
Maybe you should ask some of the Swedes or Finns over in the rally section---its an old long-running joke...

Just a joke

My blood doesn't boil when encountering anonymous people on forums.
No name= no human in my book---until they show themselves to be human..
I don't get excited about dealing with discussions with people who have "play" names...

Get your meds...