Cancel the Russian Grand Prix?

[pcal226]

In light of the sh*t they're pulling in Ukraine do you think that the Russian Grand Prix should be canceled? Personally, I absolutely do. I guess the more important question is does anyone think there's any actual chance of that happening? There's a chance everything could be resolved by then, but I wouldn't bet on it. Bernie has shown in the past (Bahrain) that he's unfazed by political goings on and/or protests, but as we all know Bernie has lost some of his power over the winter. I can't imagine things would just be allowed to go ahead normally if things stay as they are. And with all the recent Russian involvement in the sport, this could be a big deal for the season. Thoughts?

[Tazio]

Reply???? :grenade: Raunchy fart sound :confused: :bandit:

[TheFamousEccles]

while I am no fan of Putin, I like Neo-Nazis and Ultra Nationalists less. And that is what has usurped power in Ukraine. Yanukovych was a thug and a thief, and will likely not recieve the welcome in Moscow that he might otherwise receive - given the mess he has created from what started as a student rally against his pro-russian policies. The history of the area is one of a pathway beaten many times - particularly by the Nazis in WW2, and the current flock of ultra nationalists in Ukraine bear a striking resemblence.

So yes. I think the race should be pulled, but not for the obvious reasons.

[Mark]

F1 traditionally has not involved itself in politics in this way. So if there is a safety issue, then yes, cancel, otherwise no.

[Bruce D]

Well there were warnings of safety in Bahrain and they were ignored and nothing happened on the event. Russia would probably be the same, but it is surely only a matter of time before one of these nut case terrorist groups decides that F1 is a nice target for getting people's attention quickly. And if Greenpeace can get into a F1 race and pre-load a banner on the podium...

[zako85]

The "Maidan" crowd got exactly what they sowed. Not happy with the democratically elected president? How about wait a year until the presidential election? Got the president ousted? Why stomp all over the rights of Russian-speaking east as soon as you get the chance? Why cry crocodile tears over people who allegedly got shot by snipers? Tell me, what would have happened in the United States if Washington was occupied by a crowd of lunatics who throw Molotov cocktails at the police? Exactly the same thing. These "peaceful protesters" in Kiev were stirring up trouble on purpose, for months. They wanted to have violent confrontations from the very beginning.

No one in this battle has the moral high ground in Ukraine. So why should the Russia GP be pulled out? Because the West mistakenly thinks it has a "higher" moral ground? And what does Ukraine have to do with Russian GP?

[dj_bytedisaster]

The "Maidan" crowd got exactly what they sowed. Not happy with the democratically elected president? How about wait a year until the presidential election? Got the president ousted?

Democratically elected and Viktor Yanukovich do not exactly belong in the same sentence. He won the election, but it was anything but democratic by western Standards.


Why stomp all over the rights of Russian-speaking east as soon as you get the chance? Why cry crocodile tears over people who allegedly got shot by snipers?

allegedly shot? The shots were real and when Yanokovichs residence was opened, the new Interim government confiscated the documents to prove it. They don't plan to bring Yanukovich before the Hague war criminals Tribunal on 'alleged' charges.


Tell me, what would have happened in the United States if Washington was occupied by a crowd of lunatics who throw Molotov cocktails at the police? Exactly the same thing. These "peaceful protesters" in Kiev were stirring up trouble on purpose, for months. They wanted to have violent confrontations from the very beginning.

Are you by any Chance on Vladimir Putin's payroll? Where do you get your Infos from - Russia Today?? :hmph: The Maidan protests started back in November and they were absolutely peaceful until Yanokovich decided to end the protests by sending Berkut troops to beat the crap out of them in late December. That prompted Nationalist right-wingers to jump the bandwaggon and use the protests for their Agenda. It was Yanokovich, who started the bloodshed, not the Maidan movement.


No one in this battle has the moral high ground in Ukraine. So why should the Russia GP be pulled out? Because the West mistakenly thinks it has a "higher" moral ground? And what does Ukraine have to do with Russian GP?

The Maidan protesters (those of the November protests) DO have the Moral high ground as they were the only ones, who stuck to legitimite means. They protested peacefully and made the parliament see reason. You have to keep in mind that Yanokovichs ousting was legitimite according to the Ukranian constitution. And Yanukovich was ousted by his own party. They have the majority, so enough people of the party of regions have voted for his impeachment.

[pcal226]

I didn't mean to start a political debate here although I have to say I agree with everything dj_bytedisaster said. The Ukrainian's aren't perfect and have a lot of work ahead of them if they want to become a true functioning democracy but the fact is Russia is violating international law by invaded the Crimea in what is a effectively a Russian land-grab. Regardless of your political views on the situation the fact is that Russia may be facing some stiff sanctions from Western Europe, the historical home of Formula 1. My major question was does anyone realistically think a cancelation is possible? As I mentioned, with all the new Russian involvement in the sport, a cancellation could have big consequences. Bruce D mentioned that despite all the warnings about Bahrain, nothing ended up happening, but the 2011 race was cancelled, and unless i'm mistaken weren't some members of the Force India team injured in a molotov cocktail attack which caused them to miss a practice session in 2012? In any sport that would be a big deal I think.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Bernard E. sent F1 to Bahrain while peaceful protesters were massacred. How are the chances to cancel Sotchi for a light spot of illegal aggression against a country that E. hasn't invested in.

[zako85]

The goal of protesters from the very beginning was to oust democratically elected president, and this does not sound to me like rule of law or the way a democratic society should work. This could make sense in Egypt, where they don't get democratic elections anyways, but in Ukraine there was a democratic process and an election coming up soon. I do not buy into the narrative of the innocent peaceful protesters. A truly peaceful protest makes a point and disperses of its own. A proper peaceful protest does not hold the proper functions of government offices hostage. It does not linger in the capital for months paralyzing the work of the government for months. It does not really matter who escalated things and started violence first. When they occupy city center and shutdown the government for months, eventually someone, maybe police, will try to end the protests by violent means. Both sides did stupid things. Why did Ukraine parliament abolish the Russian language law just days after ousting Yanukovich? Sounds like a terrible blunder to me.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The goal of protesters from the very beginning was to oust democratically elected president, and this does not sound to me like rule of law or the way a democratic society should work. This could make sense in Egypt, where they don't get democratic elections anyways, but in Ukraine there was a democratic process and an election coming up soon. I do not buy into the narrative of the innocent peaceful protesters. A truly peaceful protest makes a point and disperses of its own. A proper peaceful protest does not hold the proper functions of government offices hostage. It does not linger in the capital for months paralyzing the work of the government for months.

Wow, you would really have liked life in the G.D.R. If you want some advice: Better read a western media for a change. You aren't going to get really reliable facts from the Pravda. The Maidan protests did not start with the intend to oust Yanukovitch. That's what Putin says, but nothing could be further from the truth. The Ukraine had negotiated an association treaty with the EU. All that was needed was his signature. The parliament, which is the democratically elected voice of the people, was in favour of ratifying the treaty. That includes a majority of Yanukovitch's party of regions.
But Putin threatened the Ukraine with stopping much needed gas and oil deliveries if they signed the EU treaty. So, in violation of what the majority of people wanted, the Ukrainian President rejected the already negotiated treaty and signed a hastily cobbled together memorandum of understanding for an association treaty with Russia. That's what the Maidan movement is about. They protested about rejecting the EU treaty at the 11th hour.
So, since you are so worried about upholding democratic principles in the Ukraine, get your facts right. The only one, who acted undemocratically was Viktor Yanukovich. He violated his oath when he took a decision that was obviously against the will of the majority of the Ukrainian people. Also, not a single gouvernment building was occupied until after the first attacks by Berkut forces.
So a peaceful protest makes a point and disperses? Where the hell do you live? Do you really think that's how we brought down the Berlin wall?? We were on the streets for bloody weeks and didn't go away until Honecker was ousted. He also was a democratically elected general secretary of the Politbureau of the Socialist Party of Unity and Chairman of the National Front of the German Democratic Republic by the way. You haven't got the damnedest clue of what's happening to be brutally honest.


It does not really matter who escalated things and started violence first. When they occupy city center and shutdown the government for months, eventually someone, maybe police, will try to end the protests by violent means. Both sides did stupid things. Why did Ukraine parliament abolish the Russian language law just days after ousting Yanukovich? Sounds like a terrible blunder to me.

Shouldn't it rather make you think why people, who unlike the law enforcement authorities do not have weapons of war go as far as risking their lives to achieve change? The Ukranian parliament had every right to abolish the Russian language law. They are - as you say - democratically elected and if a majority of them votes to abolish a law, the law will be abolished. They weren't about to outlaw Russian language. They decided that the Ukrainian language shall be the only official language in all of Ukraine. Why should government officials in Lviv be obliged to handle official business in Russian, just because a minority in Lukhansk, Donezk and the Crimean peninsula refuse to learn Ukrainian? Nobody would demand that all Canadian gouvernment officials have to learn French, so that the Quebecois don't need to learn the country's official language. They wanted to abolish Russian as a second official language in all of Ukraine. The decision did not include any paragraph that said Russian could not be retained as a second official language in regions with predominantly ethnic russian inhabitants, which are Lukhansk, the Donbass and Crimea. We have a Sorbian minority in Germany, but they won't be served in Sorbian anywhere but upper Lusatia. Is that a terrible blunder, too?

You make a lot of great contributions to this community zak, but in this case you're commenting on things you don't know the faintest thing about.

[Koz]

We have a Sorbian minority in Germany, but they won't be served in Sorbian anywhere but upper Lusatia. Is that a terrible blunder, too?

How many people speak Sorbian in Germany exactly?
Are you trying to be funny?

Every single Ukrainian has a working knowledge of Russian. For a 10 million, if not more Ukrainians, Russian is their mother tongue.
In the east and Crimea, Russian dominates completely.

[dj_bytedisaster]

We have a Sorbian minority in Germany, but they won't be served in Sorbian anywhere but upper Lusatia. Is that a terrible blunder, too?

How many people speak Sorbian in Germany exactly?
Are you trying to be funny?

Every single Ukrainian has a working knowledge of Russian. For a 10 million, if not more Ukrainians, Russian is their mother tongue.
In the east and Crimea, Russian dominates completely.

Russian dominates in the East, because the people there refuse to learn Ukrainian. If people in Quebec decided that they refuse to learn English, would you demand that the rest of Canada adopts French as a second official language? That's just preposterous.
Most Germans have a working knowledge of English, yet it isn't an official language of our country. The Ukrainians have every right to declare Ukrainian their only official language. Ukraine has been independent for 20 years, meaning that people in Donezk, the Crimean peninsula and Luhansk had two full decades to learn Ukrainian - the language of the country they are a citizen of. If they haven't until now, who's fault is that? The Russians, even if they are predominant in the East of the country are still a minority. Should all other Ukrainians now bow to their demands, just because they can't be arsed to learn the countries most widely spoken and official language? Can a Quebecois pass school exam without having learned English?
They didn't plan to make Russian illegal. People in the East could have continued speaking Russian whenever they want to. The only thing that law says is, that the people in the east - like everyone else in the country - when wishing to do official business, like registering a car or renewing their passport are able to do so in Ukrainian. Can you please point me to the nefarious part in that plan? And that's not even counting how ridiculously easy it is for a Russian speaker to learn Ukrainian as the two languages are very closely related, so there is no real justification for refusal to learn Ukrainian if you have a Ukrainian passport.

[zako85]

dj,

As I said, cases like Egypt (and GDR) are different. Those were countries with no real democratic process. Ukraine on the other hand, has a democratic process, however weak it may be. Ukraine had four different presidents within the last two decades. If the people want to oust the president, they can vote accordingly during the next election, instead of forcing the issue by illegal means. As I have said, blocking the center of a capital city, building barricades, etc, for a long time is simply unacceptable in any civilized country. Just imagine protesters who are not happy with Obamacare staging the same "peaceful" protest in Washington DC for weeks.

Yes, the language law is absolutely the stupidest thing the Ukrainian lawmakers could have done. Overnight, they send a message, intentionally or unintentionally, that the whole Maidan thing is about getting even with Russian east, rather than displacing a corrupt and unpopular president. What could have been explained as a fight with corruption is now clearly interpreted as an ethnic conflict in the east. If the lawmakers wanted to fix the language laws, they should have waited for a better time.

[Koz]

Russian dominates in the East, because the people there refuse to learn Ukrainian. If people in Quebec decided that they refuse to learn English, would you demand that the rest of Canada adopts French as a second official language? That's just preposterous.
You're being even funnier in this time.
French does have equal status to English in Canada. How preposterous indeed!

The rest of your post stinks with something I don't wish to be involved in.

[dj_bytedisaster]

dj,

As I said, cases like Egypt (and GDR) are different. Those were countries with no real democratic process. Ukraine on the other hand, has a democratic process, however weak it may be. Ukraine had four different presidents within the last two decades. If the people want to oust the president, they can vote accordingly during the next election, instead of forcing the issue by illegal means. As I have said, blocking the center of a capital city, building barricades, etc, for a long time is simply unacceptable in any civilized country. Just imagine protesters who are not happy with Obamacare staging the same "peaceful" protest in Washington DC for weeks.

Yanukovich was ousted by the parliament by a vote of no confidence, which it is entitled to by the constitution of Ukraine. It is in no way different from when the American parliament discussed impeachment of Bill Clinton for shagging an intern. And you are still falsifying information about the Maidan protests. There wasn't a single barricade nor was there a single occupation of gouvernment buildings at the start of the Maidan protests. All these things happened after Berkut troops had run roughshod over the place and a few dozen people had to be carted off to hospital. If a gouvernment attacks the own people for doing what they have a guaranteed right for - peacefull protest the people have a right to fight back.


Yes, the language law is absolutely the stupidest thing the Ukrainian lawmakers could have done. Overnight, they send a message, intentionally or unintentionally, that the whole Maidan thing is about getting even with Russian east, rather than displacing a corrupt and unpopular president. What could have been explained as a fight with corruption is now clearly interpreted as an ethnic conflict in the east. If the lawmakers wanted to fix the language laws, they should have waited for a better time.

Show me one - just one - quote that the language law was passed 'to get even' with the East. Show me one.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Russian dominates in the East, because the people there refuse to learn Ukrainian. If people in Quebec decided that they refuse to learn English, would you demand that the rest of Canada adopts French as a second official language? That's just preposterous.
You're being even funnier in this time.
French does have equal status to English in Canada. How preposterous indeed!

While both French and English are official languages with theoretically equal status in Canada, bilingual service is only provided where there is sufficient demand (i.e. big cities). In Inuvik you're quite effed if you don't speak English.


The rest of your post stinks with something I don't wish to be involved in.

The only thing that stinks is your utter lack of arguments. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about as I know both Ukraine and Russia and have lived in both countries for considerable periods of time. You were saying...?

[Koz]

While both French and English are official languages with theoretically equal status in Canada, bilingual service is only provided where there is sufficient demand (i.e. big cities). In Inuvik you're quite effed if you don't speak English.

This just keeps getting funnier.

You don't like a fact I have stated, or rather that I corrected you so now it's "theoretical"?




The rest of your post stinks with something I don't wish to be involved in.

The only thing that stinks is your utter lack of arguments. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about as I know both Ukraine and Russia and have lived in both countries for considerable periods of time. You were saying...?

What stinks is your use of false analogies and incorrect facts.

What stinks even more is that you are promoting something very dangerous along ethnic/linguistic lines. I suggest you rethink that.


What you said will be the very arguments used by those who want secession for Crimea, can you not see that?

[Rollo]

What you said will be the very arguments used by those who want secession for Crimea, can you not see that?

Not to put too fine a point on it, it was The Autonomous Republic of Crimea up until all of this happened. Technically I don't know if that put it in the same league as Somaliland or not.

[Mark]

It's quite possible, perhaps even probable that Crimea would have ended up independent anyway after a year or so. Putin wading in just made it all blow up into a massive thing when it didn't need to be.

[steveaki13]

Not sure Putin wants Crimea independent. I think he is looking to gain Crimea rather than free it.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Crimea had been a part of the Russian heartland since the 18th century. The fact that they are now a part of Ukraine is down to the fact that Nikita Khrustchev gave it to the Ukranian SSR in 1954 as a present. The Crimeans (after Stalin had deported the Crimean Tatars) have always been ethnic Russians, so they've always wanted back to be a part of Russia again.
There isn't much good to say about Putin, but his invasion has been remarkably less violent than what Yanokovichs Berkut henchmen staged on the Maidan. Mainly, because the people actually wanted to be 'invaded'.

[easy rider]

Not sure Putin wants Crimea independent. I think he is looking to gain Crimea rather than free it.

Let's just hope that Putin doesn't try to free Crimea, the same way that George Bush did, with his so-called freeing of Iraq.

[Tazio]

Not sure Putin wants Crimea independent. I think he is looking to gain Crimea rather than free it.

Let's just hope that Putin doesn't try to free Crimea, the same way that George Bush did, with his so-called freeing of Iraq.
Like!

[zako85]

I doubt that Putin really wants to annex Crimea to Russia formally, although that's the wet dream of Russian nationalists. If Russia tried to annex Crimea, then Russia definitely would "lose" the rest of Ukraine. Instead, Putin probably will use Crimea as a hostage, a territory that's de jury Ukrainian, but de facto Russian. And then, every time the government in Kiev steps out of line, more trouble will stir up in Crimea. Having an on-going territorial dispute with Russia will also complicate Ukraine's accession into NATO.

[Mark]

I doubt that Putin really wants to annex Crimea to Russia formally,

That is precisely what is happening: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962

[zako85]

I doubt that Putin really wants to annex Crimea to Russia formally,

That is precisely what is happening: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962

That's not what the linked article says. It seems like many Crimean locals and lawmakers may want to join Russia, but it's probably not what Putin is after. He just wants to make it clear that he can chop off Crimea from Ukraine, and also create more upheaval in Ukraine.

[Mark]

Putin is already putting forth legislation in the Russian parliament to allow Crimea to join. This would seem to be the overall objective.

PS. I'm not for or against it. It might be that Crimea just becoming part of Russia is best for everyone.

[zako85]

Well, IMHO, it all goes under the name of game known as "credible threat". However, if Crimea is removed from Ukraine, then Ukraine will definitely become closer to EU and they will also likely join NATO. To Russian nationalists, having a NATO member at the border is very undesirable. To see the Baltic republics become members of NATO was already humiliating. So I personally speculate that Russia will try to maintain the status of Crimea as uncontrollable and pretty much occupied territory that's nonetheless recognized by everyone as part of Ukraine, which will delay Ukraine's accession into western structures and basically buy Russia more time, because who knows maybe 10 years from now Ukraine again will elect a more pro-Russian president who could fare a lot better than the corrupt and inept Yanukovich. Annexing Crimea is probably the last option, as in the new Cold War is starting, so we may as well take back Crimea already.

[Koz]

Yeah. Russia doesn't really want to annex Crimea, controlling it as an autonomous republic (with it's own armed forced perhaps?) from within Ukraine is more useful, exactly like zako says. For now, this is just a great bargaining tool.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yeah. Russia doesn't really want to annex Crimea, controlling it as an autonomous republic (with it's own armed forced perhaps?) from within Ukraine is more useful, exactly like zako says. For now, this is just a great bargaining tool.

Except that they keep shouting how they will accept the Crimea referendum. What if the Crimeans say they want to be come part of Russia? Putin can hardly do a U turn then without looking like an idiot. There is one thing that a Russian president must never do - appearing weak. He'd be toppled before he knows what hit him.

[henners88]

They should cancel the Russian GP and go somewhere where there is a rich racing heritage and a genuine enthusiasm for Formula One. A place where tickets will sell out due to a healthy young driver supported racing scheme and history of success at the highest level. A place where they can sell cable subscriptions in their hundreds of million millions. Somewhere like Uganda.

I'm looking forward to Azerbaijan hosting a race as I think not only will it raise the profile of the Country, but the profile for F1 in general. It will likely earn Bernie and the teams a few quid too and I think that is excellent. We'll look back on this era with fondness and the fuzzy sentimental feeling we sometimes get when we know something is simply amazing. Bring it on!

[Koz]

Yeah. Russia doesn't really want to annex Crimea, controlling it as an autonomous republic (with it's own armed forced perhaps?) from within Ukraine is more useful, exactly like zako says. For now, this is just a great bargaining tool.

Except that they keep shouting how they will accept the Crimea referendum. What if the Crimeans say they want to be come part of Russia? Putin can hardly do a U turn then without looking like an idiot. There is one thing that a Russian president must never do - appearing weak. He'd be toppled before he knows what hit him.

That's what Putin wants, since no one worthwhile will ever acknowledge the referendum. A mangled mess will leave Ukraine neither here nor there.

And does anyone really think that the referendum won't be rigged to suit Putin's motives?

[zako85]

Russian motorsports are slowly improving, and you can see Russians in many high level competitions these days: WEC, WRC, Dakar Rally, GP2, GP3, Formula 1, DTM, etc. Russian companies could potentially be a decent source of sponsor money for the teams. So the Russian GP is a significant asset for Formula 1. As for Russian GP, it's a private enterprise. The conflict between Russia and Ukraine is a political one. Moreover, this conflict does not pose security threat to Russian GP. Being a business, I suspect Russian GP will happen anyways. I would certainly feel disgusted if Russian troops were involved in a gory, bloody mess in Crimea, but we haven't seen that happen yet.

[AndyL]

Russian motorsports are slowly improving, and you can see Russians in many high level competitions these days: WEC, WRC, Dakar Rally, GP2, GP3, Formula 1, DTM, etc.

And on two wheels, a Russian team are the reigning World Supersport champions. (With a British rider on board :) )

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yeah. Russia doesn't really want to annex Crimea, controlling it as an autonomous republic (with it's own armed forced perhaps?) from within Ukraine is more useful, exactly like zako says. For now, this is just a great bargaining tool.

Except that they keep shouting how they will accept the Crimea referendum. What if the Crimeans say they want to be come part of Russia? Putin can hardly do a U turn then without looking like an idiot. There is one thing that a Russian president must never do - appearing weak. He'd be toppled before he knows what hit him.

That's what Putin wants, since no one worthwhile will ever acknowledge the referendum. A mangled mess will leave Ukraine neither here nor there.

And does anyone really think that the referendum won't be rigged to suit Putin's motives?

Doesn't really matter since yesterday anymore. Russian regular troops has raided a Ukrainian military installation in what is a clear act of war. Civilians were wounded in the attack, at least one critical. That's an act of war not seen since nazi-German trrops assaulted Sender Gleiwitz in 1939. 6 hours later, WWII broke out. Unless the EU and America declare war on Russia immediately, Putin will get away with everything. As long as this nutter is in power, there will be no peace.

[Rollo]

I'm pretty sure that Bernie would do business with whomever and at any cost if it meant a profit for him. Remember the Hungarian GP was originally behind the Iron Curtain whilst Kádár was practicing "Goulash Communism".

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'm pretty sure that Bernie would do business with whomever and at any cost if it meant a profit for him. Remember the Hungarian GP was originally behind the Iron Curtain whilst Kádár was practicing "Goulash Communism".

Hungary was one of the most moderate of the communist countries with more freedom than any other eastern bloc state. That was the point of "goulash communism" - keeping out the oppressive stalinist elements. You can't really compare that to a country that invades a neighbouring country.
The level of personal freedom in Hungary in the 80 was so differet that we couldn't get visa to go vacationing there as our dear leadership feared we'd end up demanding the same freedom at home. (I grew up in East Germany).

[Koz]

Doesn't really matter since yesterday anymore. Russian regular troops has raided a Ukrainian military installation in what is a clear act of war. Civilians were wounded in the attack, at least one critical. That's an act of war not seen since nazi-German trrops assaulted Sender Gleiwitz in 1939. 6 hours later, WWII broke out. Unless the EU and America declare war on Russia immediately, Putin will get away with everything. As long as this nutter is in power, there will be no peace.

I don't think this even counts as a false flag operation. It's more like "Yeah, so what?"

But like Der Fuhrer with respect to Czechoslovakia, Putin will be appeased.

[easy rider]

Doesn't really matter since yesterday anymore. Russian regular troops has raided a Ukrainian military installation in what is a clear act of war. Civilians were wounded in the attack, at least one critical. That's an act of war not seen since nazi-German trrops assaulted Sender Gleiwitz in 1939. 6 hours later, WWII broke out. Unless the EU and America declare war on Russia immediately, Putin will get away with everything. As long as this nutter is in power, there will be no peace.

As you said, " Unless the EU and America declare war on Russia immediately "....really.

I hope that you have a bomb shelter in your back yard, because with your idea......we all had better start f***ing digging.

[zako85]

One interesting observation is that the Paralympic games in Sochi did start pretty smoothly. I haven't heard of many high profile protests during the games other the fact that the Ukrainian delegation sent only one athlete to the stadium during the opening ceremony, but the ovation he received was pretty amazing. Most Russians know that in the end Ukrainians are their closest ethnic keens in the world. I am guessing that Bernie is counting that by the fall the political crisis will be way past its peak and the GP will go smoothly.

[zako85]

What do the experts think about the layout of Russian GP course in Sochi? It appears to me that the course was primarily laid to go around the Olympic buildings, instead of the other way, which is normally bad news. As a result, there are quite a bit of sharp 90 degree turns and not enough places for passing opportunities (maybe I am wrong on this). Could this be Abu Dhabi v2.0?

[Doc Austin]

Russian tanks roll into a sovereign nation? What? That's never happened before?