Forum censorship

[RS]

After reading some worrying posts in the Sweden thread by a "moderator" could someone clear up whether it is the moderator's job to clamp down on offensive posts and bad language, or whether is is to remove posts which don't agree with their own opinion?

Perhaps it would be common courtesy for moderators to inform banned members of what their misconduct was too.

Maybe if the moderators can't stick to these basic standards they shouldn't be moderators.

[er88]

The Sweden thread only errupted with Rallyper needlessly defending a deadbeat Mikko ;) :laugh:. Joking aside surely we can all just put the handbags away and just talk rally - or is there underlying issues here? If so fair enough but sort it out pronto!

[big_sw2000]

would have to agree with something Mirek said in the Sweden thread. Ok pathetic I know. Ive only ever received 1 warning in my time on different forums. It was by brother john, I was never given an explination as to why, or an answer when I pm him.

I don't participate much in this forum, because I don't like the way it is modded.

So I would love to know how Brother John wants all this to work. How the threads should look, how we should talk.

I also don't mean this as any disrespect to Brother John

Steve

[Mintexmemory]

As one of the mods for this forum my view is that we are not supposed to stifle debate or opinion, nor should we intervene in banter.
The problems arise a)when those that dish it out don't like it back at them and b) People with a track record of impolite posting complain about the style of others to whom they may have formed a personal dislike (takes one to know one).
There are those members who go over the top in debate and actually go for the jugular from a standing start in 2.7 secs.
We have the problem that any forum faces, it's easy to be brave in being unpleasant to people who don't know where you live ;)

Some months ago I tried to deflect someone's offensive line of opinion with some gentle humour - he complained it was an insult! Those that actually know me will tell you if I want to insult someone I will be pretty direct about it.
I actually think BJ banned the wrong person in the Mirek case. Just because someone complains it doesn't mean they are justified!
I have looked at the outstanding complaints on this forum and apart from an alert of posting of access to pirated software which I will delete the other complaints fall into category a) and b) above. Interestingly, two posters complain about each other in separate threads when actually they should just go off and have a flame war by PM.

The other problem with forums (fora) is that there is no nuance in the typed word especially when maybe a non-native speaker reads a post. If we all start from trying to put the best interpretation on what is written we will all be better off, unless what is written is so unambiguously nasty that the jerk that writes it should have been left on a mountain at birth (no offence to persons identifying with ancient Spartan culture intended!). In such cases I will follow Pino's infraction code in future, if and only if there is a justifiable complaint. By the way, if I think there is a justifiable complaint I always ask for a second opinion before taking action which to date is 2 warning PMs

[Mirek]

You are fully right Mintex. My problem and the reason why I keep pushing into the BJ v Mirek story is the inability to reach any kind of communication with BJ. I'm opened to discuss anything (I believe every forum member who knows me personally can confirm that) but how can I do that when BJ is not responding in any way? How could I know he considers my posts crappy when he never told me?

I used to be an administrator of Czech Richard Burns Rally plugin. Many of our members sure knows it as one of the ways to play this great simulator online. There were so huge problems from the lack of communication between Czech speaking admins/mods and the international forum members. Usually Czech admins took some actions without communication in English. It took to me hours to help foreign members to get any kind of response to their problems /wishes that I was so tired that I retired and never came back even playing. Shortly after I retired the forum was closed completely. I understood that the mods/admins were doing it in their free time and were often tired after work etc. but the inability to communicate was only making things worse.

On the other hand I know I'm sometimes hot head. Especially in the past I made plenty of stupid things because of that but I hope it got better with age :)

[noel157]

Some of us get more silly as we get older, like me............:)

Have to do some work, later.

[A FONDO]

Why is BJ still a moderator? Every month or two he makes something 'not smart' and people complain for a week.

[Mintexmemory]

Some of us get more silly as we get older, like me............:)

Have to do some work, later.

It was Dorothy Parker, one of the greatest ever 'one liner' exponents, who said "Men immature with age".

[pino]

Moved, as it's more appropriate in here :)

[Rallyper]

who is Brother John? When did he become Mod? Why isn´t he make statements when we want to hear his stats?

[Starter]

who is Brother John? When did he become Mod? Why isn´t he make statements when we want to hear his stats?
Brother John has been a Mod for a while now.

[pino]

Moderators don't have to make any statements, just because members ask for it. We know there's an issue on Rally Forum, and we are working to solve that problem. So please everyone stays calm and stop posting attacks towards the Mod involved. Some constructive lines are more appreciated ;)

[janvanvurpa]

Moderators don't have to make any statements, just because members ask for it.

Pino, no truer statement has been made.
Nobody said you have to.
But I wonder if all you, maybe especially you, quite understand the EXTREME irony in that situation they demands respect and politeness superficially, and yet it seems it is POLICY to show the extreme rudeness on what quite possibly may be a misunderstanding..when BOFF! some unknown person bans a popular writer for unknown reasons.

In a number of cultures if somebody is getting excited and maybe getting "close to the line" of "naughtiness" ---by whatever standards there might be---a warning might be given...
But ignoring another--"we don't have to make any statements"--silence---and without a word, or even the slightest explanation to be thrown out---that's incredibly rude...

Done anonymously, it is also incredibly cowardly, but that's something those who do those sort of things must live with..

A great book was written one time about a man K accused of a crime, but nobody would tell him what crime.
You and the others here take it one step further: you ban people with not a word..
I believe it was you that banned me--but that's only from the PMs and emails of others would said the same had happened..

Is it a policy here not to say anything at all when banning people, or coincidence?

[pino]

Why especially me, and were you get the idea that it was me who banned you ? In more than 10 years as Mod, I have never ever banned anyone without giving a couple of warnings first, and an explanation, when a permanent ban was needed. Our policy is to explain/ tell a member the reasons why he's banned, but only to him and in private. I can't explain why in this case ( Mirek's ban) an explanation wasn't given, as I am not the Mod involved but it's only a Mod choice to explain in public his decision, and none can force him to do that. Btw it was me who removed your post from here last night, because English is our official language, not Swedish...

[janvanvurpa]

Why especially me, and were you get the idea that it was me who banned you ? In more than 10 years as Mod, I have never ever banned anyone without giving a couple of warnings first, and an explanation, when a permanent ban was needed. Our policy is to explain/ tell a member the reasons why he's banned, but only to him and in private. I can't explain why in this case ( Mirek's ban) an explanation wasn't given, as I am not the Mod involved but it's only a Mod choice to explain in public his decision, and none can force him to do that. Btw it was me who removed your post from here last night, because English is our official language, not Swedish...

First Pino read what I said better. I said I received ZERO warning in advance---and NO whisper of explanation and it was from OTHERS who were similarly booted out that they said they thought it was you because of their experience.
I know there had been some tsk tsk on an official level with one utterly dishonest Mod who like so many of his cultural and political stratum are barely literate and unable to perform anything other than the most superficial analysis of anything. So for that mod all of his fellow Americans in Off Topic/chit chat it was perfectly all right to suggest any genocide, any insult to the appearance of any Public Person, racists code-words, taunting and even thinly veiled threats to members all requiring no editing,
no intervention, no INSTA-Lifetime ban.
But any expression of disgust directed at the raving of the Americans--when they would---for example---after the murder of more children yet again in yet another school massacre be blabbering how "Nobodys going to take my GUNZ!" any disgust at their self centered fantasy based world view MIGHT get a grumble. Or even a word from "Authorities" but their happily delighting in blood dripping stuff remained unedited.

Anyway so you say its policy to get some written explanation... so I guess it's not ironic that Mirek, me, and those others---who I will not name -----just happened to get banned with not a peep.

By the way, you're a Mod so obviously you are given licence to do whatever you want without explanation and without any clear guidelines for recall, but you know you might just try relaxing..
Example---you "liquidate" a post answering a guy asking a question about something---who is_________----in a way both the person asking and the person concerned can understand, so the person asking is happy--- but you "liquidate" the post..

You could read it couldn't you? (aren't you in Danmark?) Nothing rude, nothing mean. Nothing in any way offensive. Questioner got his answer clearly.
One line----
But rules are rules! Befäl ist befäl! <-----note that is a widely understood phrase in the English speaking world ---amongt any above a certain rather low level of education
So you have to act...?
No you could look at context, read what it said, no harm.
MODERATE...
Do you guys really think about the word MODERATE?

It's almost like police---they seem to feel compelled to force compliance--to force OBEDIENCE

MODERATE....tone down, relax, help others to relax.

[Mark]

tone done, realx, help others to realx.

Good advice. I kind a bike ride helps a lot.

[pino]

Walking a lovely dog whilst listening to your fave music, or cooking a delicious Italian pasta...helps a lot too ;)

[Starter]

Walking a lovely dog whilst listening to your fave music, or cooking a delicious Italian pasta...helps a lot too ;)
Cooking the pasta is nice, but eating the pasta, with a glass or two of vino, is so much better.

[slorydn1]

Walking a lovely dog whilst listening to your fave music, or cooking a delicious Italian pasta...helps a lot too ;)
Cooking the pasta is nice, but eating the pasta, with a glass or two of vino, is so much better.

Yes, I would definitely have to agree there!

[pino]

How about cooking and eating at the same time ? That's what I usually do ;)

[Starter]

How about cooking and eating at the same time ? That's what I usually do ;)
What time would you like us to stop by?

:p

[pino]

How about cooking and eating at the same time ? That's what I usually do ;)
What time would you like us to stop by?

:p

Sorry but none is allowed into my kitchen, when I am cooking :p:

[Starter]

How about cooking and eating at the same time ? That's what I usually do ;)
What time would you like us to stop by?

:p

Sorry but none is allowed into my kitchen, when I am cooking :p:
Too bad. Slorydn1 and I were going to fly over from the states just for the occasion.
:p

[slorydn1]

Too bad. Slorydn1 and I were going to fly over from the states just for the occasion.
:p

That's right, Starter...what time did you say you wanted me to you up to go to the airport? And should I bring the blue Mustang or the gray one?

[airshifter]

Why especially me, and were you get the idea that it was me who banned you ? In more than 10 years as Mod, I have never ever banned anyone without giving a couple of warnings first, and an explanation, when a permanent ban was needed. Our policy is to explain/ tell a member the reasons why he's banned, but only to him and in private. I can't explain why in this case ( Mirek's ban) an explanation wasn't given, as I am not the Mod involved but it's only a Mod choice to explain in public his decision, and none can force him to do that. Btw it was me who removed your post from here last night, because English is our official language, not Swedish...

First Pino read what I said better. I said I received ZERO warning in advance---and NO whisper of explanation and it was from OTHERS who were similarly booted out that they said they thought it was you because of their experience.
I know there had been some tsk tsk on an official level with one utterly dishonest Mod who like so many of his cultural and political stratum are barely literate and unable to perform anything other than the most superficial analysis of anything. So for that mod all of his fellow Americans in Off Topic/chit chat it was perfectly all right to suggest any genocide, any insult to the appearance of any Public Person, racists code-words, taunting and even thinly veiled threats to members all requiring no editing,
no intervention, no INSTA-Lifetime ban.
But any expression of disgust directed at the raving of the Americans--when they would---for example---after the murder of more children yet again in yet another school massacre be blabbering how "Nobodys going to take my GUNZ!" any disgust at their self centered fantasy based world view MIGHT get a grumble. Or even a word from "Authorities" but their happily delighting in blood dripping stuff remained unedited.

Anyway so you say its policy to get some written explanation... so I guess it's not ironic that Mirek, me, and those others---who I will not name -----just happened to get banned with not a peep.

By the way, you're a Mod so obviously you are given licence to do whatever you want without explanation and without any clear guidelines for recall, but you know you might just try relaxing..
Example---you "liquidate" a post answering a guy asking a question about something---who is_________----in a way both the person asking and the person concerned can understand, so the person asking is happy--- but you "liquidate" the post..

You could read it couldn't you? (aren't you in Danmark?) Nothing rude, nothing mean. Nothing in any way offensive. Questioner got his answer clearly.
One line----
But rules are rules! Befäl ist befäl! <-----note that is a widely understood phrase in the English speaking world ---amongt any above a certain rather low level of education
So you have to act...?
No you could look at context, read what it said, no harm.
MODERATE...
Do you guys really think about the word MODERATE?

It's almost like police---they seem to feel compelled to force compliance--to force OBEDIENCE

MODERATE....tone down, relax, help others to relax.



This rant is really quite comical when you've had numerous warnings in public within threads. Did you think Mark would send a written notice of warning citation or something at some point? :laugh:



I've said this before and will suggest it again... Though I can understand why moderators don't often bother with a public explanation of why a ban was imposed, it might serve as fair warning to those that really aren't grasping to what extend the rule is enforced and what is deemed acceptable. Now I do understand some people will play victim regardless of the reality, but really if a moderator or Mark quoted what was crossing the line then people have less excuse when it's crossed in the future. Just a thought...

Having said that I no nothing of the current situation so I'm not going to imply or suggest any conspiracy theory by anyone.

I don't visit much in the forums other than F1 and Chit Chat, and can honestly say that I think Pino and all other mods that normally visit either forum probably take more crap and give more chances than I would.

[janvanvurpa]

This rant blah blah harumph! HARUMPH! Harumph!



Nobody was asking for your opinion. And nobody with any sense gives a fawk about people who consistently refer to other people's opinions as a "rant".
People like you who habitually keep a front of some stuffy propriety while virtually every word they write is dripping with a smug contempt are pitiful examples of humans.

And of course you would not see anything wrong with Moderators banning people without the common courtesy of an explanation.
You dismiss everything anybody says off hand routinely and the conceit and disdain is evident.
You just keep your facade of stuffiness up and write blather.

F1 fan.. :crazy: :laugh:

[airshifter]

Sorry you don't like dealing with facts. Would you like me to quote proof that your earlier statements were false, or would you rather continue to act like and play victim?

I really get a laugh out of people who deal in non facts and then get angry that others deal with facts. I could attach a "people like you" statement, circumvent the language filters, or apply stereotypes of people I know very little about. But that's really too easy as compared to dealing with facts and an adult level discussion isn't it?

Please, continue being an angry victim.... it won't bother me in the slightest, nor will your opinion of anything. ;)

[Starter]

I could attach a "people like you" statement, circumvent the language filters, or apply stereotypes of people I know very little about.
That's a problem which moderators of almost all boards have to deal with. Some people love to cozy up to the line of what is allowed and then stick a toe across just to see what they can get away with. Some put much more than a toe across. They do this fully realizing what they are doing. Then, when called on it, they play like they didn't know it was against the rules or didn't really mean it that way and/or accuse the mod in question of bias, unfairness and taking someone else's side. Most members never see this as, usually, much of it transpires via PM. Once in a while though someone whose only interest is in making trouble tries to trash another member or a mod in public. That's pretty much what is going on here.

[janvanvurpa]

rant rant Harumph! harumph!
I really get a laugh out of people who deal in non facts and then get angry that others deal with facts. I

nor will your opinion of anything. ;)

I don't think you'd know a fact from Shinola..

Look 4370 posts in chit chat and F1--F1!! discussion opinions!!! Oh no everybody else is discussing opinions
Hairshifter is discussing FACTS...

Again, we see your major fault as a human: "nor will your opinion of anything..."

Contempt and arrogance coupled with appalling ignorance...

Dunning-Kruger much, boy?

[janvanvurpa]

That's pretty much what is going on here.

No whatever your name is, once again, as always, you cannot figure out the obvious...and are, as always, wrong.
Brother John screwed up from week one as a moderator.. You are over on whatever forum you wallow in and besides you're an extremely poor judge of even obvious things,
so you did not see that within days he was deleting posts, moving posts, interrupting discussions, scolding people and in short being DISRUPTIVE...
Nothing again John Personally, we've had good laughs that we share the same name, same Vlaamse background---our ancestors were nearly neighbors--- and we were both immigrants to the same country...But he doesn't understand his role and has thrown his weight around....and banned a friendly and knowledgeable member who did nothing, with no explanation to the banned member or to US, his friends and acquaintances in THAT forum...

Why don't you and your friend Airshifter go write long rants on some Nascar or F1 forum???

YOU and he have nothing to do with this... I do because Mirek is a friend whose words and opinions I value and look forward to..

If I were a Moderator I'd give you and Airshifter a one month ban for trolling this thread trying to disrupt and distract...

(I really don't except either of you to see the point that what is offensive is offensive from a point of view. I find you and Airshifter offensive to the point of disgust and have avoided ChitChat because of the endlessly tiresome BS--FROM MY POINT OF VIEW you both vomit up. but I'm sure you and he think you are clever and entertaining..

[airshifter]

rant rant Harumph! harumph!
I really get a laugh out of people who deal in non facts and then get angry that others deal with facts. I

nor will your opinion of anything. ;)

I don't think you'd know a fact from Shinola..

Look 4370 posts in chit chat and F1--F1!! discussion opinions!!! Oh no everybody else is discussing opinions
Hairshifter is discussing FACTS...

Again, we see your major fault as a human: "nor will your opinion of anything..."

Contempt and arrogance coupled with appalling ignorance...

Dunning-Kruger much, boy?


Oh look. Someone who has just once again proven himself to be lacking integrity has taken the time to call me a big doo doo head. I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Wait... yes I do.

:laugh:


:laugh:


:laugh:



And when all is said and done, this is the person claiming he can't possibly understand why he was given a vacation in the past.

:laugh:


Read the fine print hater. I stated I don't care what your opinion is. That is a directed statement, not a blanket statement. I notice you've side stepped the question I posed that would display your lack of integrity. Those quotes can be horrible things when you are playing victim, can't they?

[Starter]

Why don't you and your friend Airshifter go write long rants on some Nascar or F1 forum???

YOU and he have nothing to do with this... I do because Mirek is a friend whose words and opinions I value and look forward to..

If I were a Moderator I'd give you and Airshifter a one month ban for trolling this thread trying to disrupt and distract...

(I really don't except either of you to see the point that what is offensive is offensive from a point of view. I find you and Airshifter offensive to the point of disgust and have avoided ChitChat because of the endlessly tiresome BS--FROM MY POINT OF VIEW you both vomit up. but I'm sure you and he think you are clever and entertaining..
I'd hardly call airshifter my "friend" since I don't know him personally and, other than exchanges on this forum, have no communication with him, anymore than I'd call you a friend for the same reason. Nor do he and I agree on everything.

You, on the other hand, are the poster child for someone who doesn't know how to play nice. Your response to anyone who doesn't agree with you is to insult them and, rather than discuss differences in an adult manner, go off on a rant not having anything to do with the subject at hand while throwing more insults - which you obviously think are quite clever. You have accused me of all kinds of nastiness from my time here as a mod yet have failed to back it up with facts (oops, sorry, you don't seem to like that word). Perhaps you might consider growing up and conducting yourself as an adult instead of a spoiled child.

[janvanvurpa]

Mark, you see here a typical way that things swing out of control and go unmoderated.

Neither of the 2 notorious trolls above are contributing to this failed conversation on inappropriate actions and behavior of MODS and my own take of the extreme irony of the Forum rules which demand a level of superficial politeness, while treating people extremely rudely..

You, I , they all know they are off topic intentionally so, and the contempt is slathered on thick n their every word, especially the horribly uptight airshifter----but I guess since he "writes nicely" his words are OK?

Mirek was banned for a simple comment to an idiot wishing some driver would crash....
Why can both these guys for YEARS derail threads, be allowed to drone on just the hear their own presumably basso profundo voices and thereby show nothing but disdain---and contempt seemingly unrestrained, nary--as far as we know---a peep?

[Starter]

Mark, you see here a typical way that things swing out of control and go unmoderated.
Things do swing out of control when unmoderated. Personal insults for instance. Here's a selection of insults of varying degree, posted by yourself, from this thread alone and directed at other members in good standing:
"are barely literate"
"their self centered fantasy based world view"
"their happily delighting in blood dripping stuff"
"Hairshifter is discussing FACTS..."
"Again, we see your major fault as a human"
"FROM MY POINT OF VIEW you both vomit up"

[airshifter]

Mark, you see here a typical way that things swing out of control and go unmoderated.
Things do swing out of control when unmoderated. Personal insults for instance. Here's a selection of insults of varying degree, posted by yourself, from this thread alone and directed at other members in good standing:
"are barely literate"
"their self centered fantasy based world view"
"their happily delighting in blood dripping stuff"
"Hairshifter is discussing FACTS..."
"Again, we see your major fault as a human"
"FROM MY POINT OF VIEW you both vomit up"

The contempt and disdain in those quotes is slathered on so thick that it offends me to the point of disgust. :laugh:

I tried, but even when joking couldn't do that with a straight face. I guess my stuffiness and smug attitude somewhat grounds to to reality or something.


<clears throat to clarify my basso profundo voice>

Now I hate to bother you my close friend, but if you do not promptly pass the Grey Poupon I shall view your actions with great disdain, and I may well vomit up this peasant food. :D

[Mark]

Howay man like.

[Mintexmemory]

Howay man like.

The Venerable Bede hath spoke, let them wot has lugs opn'em like!