[ERC] Acropolis Rally 2014

[Jarek Z]

Footage from SS1, 2 and 3. The 208 seems to be much more entertaining to watch and listen to than the Fiesta: http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/366/t/ERC-GREECE-SS1-SS2-SS3-HIGHLIGHTS

Yes, 208 looks much more spectacular. Fiesta looks a little slower, but the truth is that stage times are almost the same! :)

By the way - I read some drivers' comment that the tarmac in Greece was slippery, but I had no idea it was THAT slippery!

[RAS007]

"à fond" is just the same as "flat out". It's used in French and Flemish pacenotes. Abbring has picked up some things from driving with Belgian codrivers, including the use of "à fond" in his notes. Quite funny that he prefers it over "flat out", while all other things are English. :)

Very interesting! Thank you.

[Tom206wrc]

Breen and Kejetanowicz above everybody else on today gravel part :confused:

[WUff1]

Bouffier is loosing much time on gravel as I expected. Think Lappi could be in front of him at the end of the day.

Think Breen will win this one, Kajto second, maybe Lappi third

[br21]

Peugeots had yesterday max speed of 198kmh, so around 20kmh faster than other R5 or S2000 cars. It explains a little their times on those fast stages. I have no idea if they have other ratios homologated, I think they should, if not it can explain Andreuccis times also...

[Tom206wrc]

Kajto lost a bit on split one SS8 :confused:
Huge loss from Gryazin on split 2 :(

[WUff1]

Bouffier flying on SS8! And I thought he´s not a gravel specialist ...

But problems for many others on this stage (Gryazin and Lappi puncture, Kajto problems with powersteering - hope he can keep podium!).

[HaCo]

Could end up in a big battle, hope Citroen doesn't take away first victory from Peugeot :-)

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ARCHOS 80G9 met Tapatalk

[Tom206wrc]

Where are Bouffier and Breen on SS9(no split for them) :confused:

Edit: oh no, their splits don't work at all :mad:

[Tom206wrc]

Well, 14" between the 3 first in front with the 2nd loop of stages left to go :D

[RS]

Going to be an exciting end. Lappi seems to be out of the game, I was expecting more from him today.

I guess the stages are slower and twistier today and Breen is still fast so either their torque is really good or they do indeed have a shorter gearbox also.

You could see on the onboards yesterday they only touched the rev limiter occasionally despite very fast roads.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Very good morning with 3 different stage winners, exactly what the Championship needed, close competition.

Still a way to go - lets hope no-one has problems and we see a real fight to the end.

[Mirek]

Footage from SS1, 2 and 3. The 208 seems to be much more entertaining to watch and listen to than the Fiesta: http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/366/t/ERC-GREECE-SS1-SS2-SS3-HIGHLIGHTS

That moment of Breen was very much Galli-style :D


Peugeots had yesterday max speed of 198kmh, so around 20kmh faster than other R5 or S2000 cars. It explains a little their times on those fast stages. I have no idea if they have other ratios homologated, I think they should, if not it can explain Andreuccis times also...

Thanks! That's very long gearbox indeed and I have to apologize to HarriK, he was right! With such a long gearbox the engine must be really powerful.

[Tom206wrc]

SS11 started now ;)

[RS]

What is the top speed of wrc and rrc cars?

[Mirek]

They have various gear ratios available too but generally I think around 200 km/h.

[Tom206wrc]

Bouffier 3"6 faster than Kajto on split one ;)
Edit: and Breen even a bit faster :D

[Mirek]

Lappi, Wiegand onboards SS7,8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWZt2Ix-sQc&list=PLvU8NlBTh8tPPkjcDL2ZSLHIeRwxaiI6l

[trifonvl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0G4vIwG5rQ&feature=youtu.be

[Jarek Z]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0G4vIwG5rQ&feature=youtu.be

Wow! It's really slippery over there!

Now just 2 stages to go and 18 seconds between Breen and Bouffier. I don't think that anything can happen.

[Tom206wrc]

Excellent training before Portugal JWRC for Simone Tempestini :)
Today on gravel he's constantly the fastest of 2WDs and slowly but surely catch Zoltan Bessenyey ;)

[thetsakvr46]

Tarabus has just been given a 3-minute penalty for using tarmac tyres on the super special stage.
This is not allowed...

[Mirek]

Yes, stupid mistake by the team...

[bluuford]

these two stages are different to the firstone. I guess the finaldifference will be less than 5 sec. who is winning? do not know :-)

[WUff1]

I think Breen will finally make it this time, but I wouldn´t bet who´ll win the duel for second position.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen leads into the last stage. Bring it home now !

[mousti]

I think Breen will finally make it this time, but I wouldn´t bet who´ll win the duel for second position.

Bouffier will win that battle.

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

BREEN WINS ACROPOLIS :champion: !! FANTASTIC MAIDEN ERC WIN AND 1ST WIN FOR THE 208T16 !! :bounce:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3474626638/9df3baabeea2d4b4ea429223d57d5164.jpeg

[mousti]

Seems Ucci gave us a wrong signal in Ciocco. Still gutted about Abbring. Nice for Breen!

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What a joke the timing at the end, waiting and waiting to confirm the win.

So happy for Craig after all his tough times to come through like this.

He can go on now and fulfil his potential.

[Mirek]

Great victory for Craig :) Pity for Abbring. Anyway good rally with nice battles. Škoda guys (cars) were clearly off the pace. The incoming events will be interesting!

[Tom206wrc]

Problem for Tempestini in the last stage(he took the lead of 2WD after SS12) :(

[Mirek]

Highlights of this morning including fantastic onboard of Breen

http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/371/t/ERC-GREECE-SS7-SS8-SS9-HIGHLIGHTS

Helicams with Breen

http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/367/t/ERC-GREECE-SS4-BREEN-IN-ACTION
http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/369/t/ERC-GREECE-BREEN-ON-SS7-FROM-THE-WESCAM

Onboard Bouffier SS8

http://www.fiaerc.com/videogallery/detail/id_event/17/id/370/t/ERC-GREECE-ON-BOARD-WITH-BOUFFIER-AND-PANSERI-ON-SS8

[Ucci]

Seems Ucci gave us a wrong signal in Ciocco. Still gutted about Abbring. Nice for Breen!

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

Indeed; if Andreucci will not win in San Remo (except if he will be stopped by technical troubles), Racing Linos has to look for another (faster...) driver. There is nothing wrong with the 208 R5 itself.....

[papar007]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U-fmgcPly4&list=WLQWgCBioXzGkxoYsrSXsR4aqfpSXKFFeB

Bryan out

[RAS007]

Indeed; if Andreucci will not win in San Remo (except if he will be stopped by technical troubles), Racing Linos has to look for another (faster...) driver. There is nothing wrong with the 208 R5 itself.....

What has happened to San Remo? No WRC, not in ERC....is it no w just a round of the Italian Championship?

[papar007]

Great pass from Breen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moLCtEchLVk&index=3&list=WLQWgCBioXzGkxoYsrSXsR4aqfpSXKFFeB

[WUff1]

Congrats to Craig Breen - he deserved it! And 208 T16 alredy looks like a becoming legend.

Good rally with interesting fights.

[bluuford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U-fmgcPly4&list=WLQWgCBioXzGkxoYsrSXsR4aqfpSXKFFeB

Bryan out


Here he lost those 8 seconds that he needed. In general, it seems that Bouffire+RRC is still faster than 208 R5, Bouffier just made too many mistakes this time.. puncture, litte off and spin.

[Ucci]

What has happened to San Remo? No WRC, not in ERC....is it no w just a round of the Italian Championship?

yes.....

[RS]

Here he lost those 8 seconds that he needed. In general, it seems that Bouffire+RRC is still faster than 208 R5, Bouffier just made too many mistakes this time.. puncture, litte off and spin.

I don't know about that.. things could get very interesting if Bryan switches to DS3 R5 later..

I am fairly sure Fabia R5 will homologated before summer 2015, and it looks like they will need it! Despite being a Skoda fan I am kind of pleased to see them having to fight for a change!

Congratulations to Craig for his first proper win and to Peugeot for a debut ERC victory for the 208, I guess they surprised us all!

[WUff1]

Here he lost those 8 seconds that he needed. In general, it seems that Bouffire+RRC is still faster than 208 R5, Bouffier just made too many mistakes this time.. puncture, litte off and spin.

And another spin today. Yes, this time the difference could be found behind the steering wheel ..

[Jarek Z]

And another spin today. Yes, this time the difference could be found behind the steering wheel ..

Without any testing such mistakes are hard to avoid. Let's be fair to Bryan. He is a private driver who was almost as fast as a factory driver who competes on a regular basis in the best cars for at least the last 3 years. In my opinion Bryan did a great job.

[Jarek Z]

things could get very interesting if Bryan switches to DS3 R5 later..

I am fairly sure Fabia R5 will homologated before summer 2015, and it looks like they will need it! Despite being a Skoda fan I am kind of pleased to see them having to fight for a change!

It looks as if we're gonna have an exciting championship this year. At least after 3 rounds it looks interesting.

Provisional standings after Acropolis:
1. Breen 63,
2. Lappi 59,
3. Griazin 48,
4. Kajetanowicz 44,
5. Kubica 39,
6. Bouffier 31,
7. Pech 30,
8. Baumschlager 24,
9. Harrach 20, Tarabus 20, Wiegand 20.

[miniwintz]

Do we know if Kopecky will return to ERC at any point this season? Skoda seems to be struggling without him running in the championship.

[Mirek]

Do we know if Kopecky will return to ERC at any point this season? Skoda seems to be struggling without him running in the championship.

For sure he will do Barum rally. For the rest I have no idea if they would change their plans.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is what its all about... :champion:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/p180x540/1609574_10152363408402853_933303820_n.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bj-9Tc0CIAAnK19.jpg

And In Memorium of Gareth Roberts (Jaffa) RIP.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BM4AgkICIAEoK1J.jpg

[nafpaktos]

Without any testing such mistakes are hard to avoid. Let's be fair to Bryan. He is a private driver who was almost as fast as a factory driver who competes on a regular basis in the best cars for at least the last 3 years. In my opinion Bryan did a great job.

Ι think the same.what you've written are abosolutely right and objective.

[RS]

For sure he will do Barum rally. For the rest I have no idea if they would change their plans.

Since they are not fighting for a manufacturers championship I doubt it.

[dimviii]

Congrats to Breen- Martin for their win,well deserved among all they finished.
Surprisingly, the 208, against the rumors,was on par with with rest s2000 and r5 cars out of the box.

Breen nice driving specially at gravel.Very brave when situation needed to push hard.Todays morning stage, some 1 km from finish(500m before Hirvonen managed to avoid the big tree at an exit at previous Acropolis if you remember) i was at a veeery fast section,with good gravel,and at the end at a long straight(about 500meters) ,slightly downhill,there was a very open ''s'' .
Breen without hesitate passes at 5th gear at limiter sliding from one side to the other side.Not opposite lock,just 4wheel slide to the edge with the limiter all the time for some 150 meters.http://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/images/smilies/yikes.gif
he had all 2 days clean lines,right braking points,with fast driving.Really impressed me,didn t waiting something like this from him.
But the guy most impressed me was Abbring.New car,new co-driver (at foreign language),new rally,clearly fastest among all ,when he retired from overheating.Against Lappi,Breen,Bouffier,Kajetan is not easy,specially when you havent compete with 4wd about a year.
His skills at asphalt are very promising.Just watch a veeeery slippery place, where everybody had problems to turn the right way.
http://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moLCtEchLVk&index=3&list=WLQWgCBioXzGkxoYsrSXsR4aqfpSXKFFeB
i saw him 2 times,and was like this perfect,at both times.Both stages i saw were on 5th speed,with slippery asphalt and dirty roads.No fear for him
Watch a slow one too.Perfection again,nose of the car at the right point of cut inside the road,using all the road,no corrections.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA92GErcVj4
and another one..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HwwCrAPsPE
Imho was the man of the rally.Also didnt wait from him this amazing pace.Nice surprise!
At service park told me that he had a little bit more,but i didnt believed him,and i told it to him.Laughing told me to stay tuned.He confirmed to me also that he will compete at Ireland.
Gryazin,very good at gravel,needs some work at asphalt.Clean lines too.This guy progress.
Kajetan. Very fast driving,clean lines at both surfaces.He didnt impressed me,because i was waiting to be fast.http://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/images/smilies/lol.gif
Bouffier.Was waiting more from him,specially at ashpalt.Too many mistakes for him this weekend.Same corner where Breen today morning was on limiter sliding,he hesitated and lift off when fighting with Kajetan.
Also at asphalt at ultra fast sections hesitated to pass flat out,like at this video.This video is usefull about the conversation for top speeds and limiters.[img]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH45H23G-ic
At slow section not so good lines at least where i was watching.
Ok no test before rally,but didnt saw any improovement through the rally with a better car.
Lappi.At asphalt i wasn t waiting to see something extraordinary from him.At first day end when i saw 44 sec from leader,i was thinking if the stage km are enough, to reach 1st position.Stages were quite fast(average from 80-94km/h) with good surface and a good job from organizers to smooth the bad sections.i believed that he could even to come very close,if not to win.
Definetely a very bad rally for him,with plenty of testing,he was loosing constantly from Bouffier,Kajetan,Breen.
before rally,I could bet 20 beers that thats impossible at gravel at least.
Slavov very impressive driving fast and spectacular.Pitty he managed to crash the front of his impressive sounding Clio.

Generally a nice rally with nice battles,nice surprises and some dissapointments.
With friends we had a good weekend,with plenty of walking and some jeeps to reach some nice spots.
Roads were demanding,specially the asphalt ones,with grip changing continuesly.If at 1st day was all stages with rain we would have plenty of drama.Fortunately just one stage was wet.
Next year i want to see same spots with wrc.Was good with r5-s2000-rrc,some drivers were surprisingly fast and brave,but wrc is a different league.

[Jarek Z]

Thanks for your impressions dimviii! It was very interesting to read your opinions.

[Tom206wrc]

Here he lost those 8 seconds that he needed. In general, it seems that Bouffire+RRC is still faster than 208 R5, Bouffier just made too many mistakes this time.. puncture, litte off and spin.

Breen also did mistakes during the event, and had to discover the 208 T16 on gravel with two spare tyres in the rear... ;)

[WUff1]

Thanks for your impressions dimviii! It was very interesting to read your opinions.

+1

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/lum_24134_img_0153.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/lum_24410_img_9800.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/lum_23066_img_1025.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=13874&fotograf=205

[COD]

Do we know if Kopecky will return to ERC at any point this season? Skoda seems to be struggling without him running in the championship.

They are struggling without turbo, not without Kopecky

[Mirek]

They are struggling without turbo, not without Kopecky

I wouldn't jump the ship too fast. It's of course possible but definitely not sure as a reason of the bad result.

[dimviii]

I wouldn't jump the ship too fast. It's of course possible but definitely not sure as a reason of the bad result.
+1

[rage82]

@dimviii - Do you have any videos of Todor Slavov? He's definately the most talanted bulgarian driver at the moment but he lack's of funds as many drivers today. In 2010 he was competing in JWRC against Neuville, Abbring, Weis Jr and wasn't much slower and Thierry is now in Huyindai and Kevin in Peugeot:)!

[dimviii]

rage82 unfortunately i dont have any videos,but if i find any i will post.He was very fast and spectacular where i was watching.
Also his clio was very powerfull,the other r3 clios wasn t near this powerwise.

[nafpaktos]

@rage82 i saw him,his driving was exceptional.where is he specialist?tarmac,gravel?

[dimviii]

at 1,50 Slavov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daUi9c-HbYk#t=114

[rage82]

rage82 unfortunately i dont have any videos,but if i find any i will post.He was very fast and spectacular where i was watching.
Also his clio was very powerfull,the other r3 clios wasn t near this powerwise.
Thanks for the video! Last year they have made some kind of rebuild ( think it was something on the engine but I'm not so sure) and after that the Clio is more powerfull and have this amazing sound.

[rage82]

@rage82 i saw him,his driving was exceptional.where is he specialist?tarmac,gravel?
He's tarmac specialist as in Bulgaria we have only tarmac rallies. But he has competed also on gravel in Turkey 2010 (JWRC) - 4th and in Spain - 2nd and in some other gravel rallies in Eastern Europe rally cup, so he can be also competitive on gravel.

[RS]

They are struggling without turbo, not without Kopecky

I am not convinced by Wiegand, and I doubt Lappi is up to Kopecky's speed on asphalt yet.. on the other hand I doubt Kopecky would have been able to make much difference if his car was 30kmh slower on the straights. I am quite curious why Skoda didn't take the long gearbox.

I was somewhat expecting Lappi to claw some time back on the gravel but he just fell further back.

On the bright side, I guess Skoda will still try for the title with Lappi so this result probably means more events for him!

[Mirek]

In my opinion the best comparison will come in Ypres and Barum. With Loix and Kopecký Škoda was unbeatable there. If Pugs will be faster then these two there it would be all clear. Also both these events are very high speed...

[liposh]

On the bright side, I guess Skoda will still try for the title with Lappi so this result probably means more events for him!

Or it could be total oposite. Maybe Skoda told Lappi: (just my personal speculation): "This year ERC campaign is not important for us. We will pay You 8 rounds of ERC and not even one more, so you can´t crash even once"....and that was why Lappi was so slow and nervous here.

[Mirek]

In my opinion the main goal of this season is to collect data of R5 opponents and to give Lappi experience in ERC events.

We shall not be too critical against Lappi. His results so far have been better than of Hänninen when he started with Škoda.

[dimviii]

I am quite curious why Skoda didn't take the long gearbox.

the long box is not solution for every stage/km.
Longer gearbox= slower accelerations at every corner of the rally for the car.
208 yes had better top speed,but we dont know if it was faster from fabias at low speed accelerations.
as Mirek said we will understand whats happening, at rallies with well proven crews behind fabia steering wheels.
imho there wasn t any lack of performance with fabias vs r5,or at least that wasn t the main reason they weren t competitive.At downhills or straight sections with 5-6 speeds was visible that the problem was the driving superiority, and not the power.

[RS]

imho there wasn t any lack of performance with fabias vs r5,or at least that wasn t the main reason they weren t competitive.At downhills or straight sections with 5-6 speeds was visible that the problem was the driving superiority, and not the power.

That's interesting.

I understand about the gearbox, but the drivers talked about such long sections on the rev limiter here I thought it would be a "no-brainer"

I guess Gryazin was exaggerating a little, and I know he only has the short gearbox but he talked of being on the limiter for "three minutes"

Anyway, I agree with Mirek.. if they know how much faster the R5 car is than the Fabia S2000 they know what they need to aim for with the Fabia R5.

[dimviii]

That's interesting.

I understand about the gearbox, but the drivers talked about such long sections on the rev limiter here I thought it would be a "no-brainer"

we can t calculate what percentage are the long sections,but dont think that are more than 5% of rally kms.
after that at long sections we have to calculate that the ''profit'' of 208s is when the speed is more than 180 km/h.
so as you can see we are talking about very few seconds of profit for the r5 cars.And of course with this scenario with the long box, that r5 are equal with s2000 from 0-150 km\h accelerations.We dont know if r5 with the profit of top speed,are faster from low down accelerations.
So we cant know if fabias were ''disadvantaged'' from top speed, because maybe they were faster at low down accelerations.


I guess Gryazin was exaggerating a little, and I know he only has the short gearbox but he talked of being on the limiter for "three minutes"
can somebody calculate with 180km/h for 3 minutes how many km is the distance?


Anyway, I agree with Mirek.. if they know how much faster the R5 car is than the Fabia S2000 they know what they need to aim for with the Fabia R5.

for the future i am almost sure that r5 cars will be faster at any surface,but i dont think that they are already.
Another ''proof'' that at Acropolis wasn t the top speed that decide the winners is that if you see the Sunday stages,fabias were the same or more slower like Saturday ,with only 80-95km/h stage average speed.

[Mirek]

180 km/h for 3 minutes is 9 km. That doesn't seem possible. Anyway drivers in the excitement usually exaggerate and this is probably another example :)

You are right that it's not possible from the table to say which gearbox is better. For example average speed in Barum stages is cca same on eastern and western stages but Škoda always runs long gearbox for western and shorter for eastern because the profile of these stages is different - eastern ones are more narrow, more flowing while western ones have many opened straights and slow sections among houses.

[EightGear]

can somebody calculate with 180km/h for 3 minutes how many km is the distance?


9 kilometers.

Edit: Mirek was faster.

[miniwintz]

can somebody calculate with 180km/h for 3 minutes how many km is the distance?
https://www.google.com/search?q=180+km/h+*+3+min

9 kilometers :)
If S2000 were at 180km/h and R5 at 190km/h, there would be a gap of 9.5 seconds in favor of the R5 over that distance

[COD]

Top speed means very little, even in fast rallies. For the driver it is frustrating, but for stage time it has very little effect.

The advantage for the turbo cars is torque, it helps in acceleration from slow corners especially and also less wheelspin = easier to preserve tyres

[dimviii]

thanks guys.Too much exaggeration from Gryazin.
As Mirek said with his example with eastern vs western Czech stages you have to know exactly the profile of the stage to see if you have an advantage with long/short gearbox.
That a stage has 3-4 sections with some seconds on limiter,is not sure if the long box is better,if you have a big disasdantage at the rest 95% of stage.

ps at the asphalt super stage some cars had shaved gravel tyreshttp://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/images/smilies/iconcool5lw.gif

[br21]

with gearbox there are many other factors, many of them guys mentioned already.
with long box you can go faster, but you loose a little bit of acceleration on lower gears. also in less powerful cars, like S2000 or R5 ("less powerful" I meant comparing to old wrc cars for which there was no big difference in acceleration from 70-100kmh and 170-200kmh) sometimes you can go faster as gearbox allows it, but engine has not enough power to reach that speed, or it simply takes too long, as the car is almost not accelerating above 170kmh for example.
sometimes when you have many corners of one type/speed you can choose box suiting it - for example with hairpins you can choose proper ratio to do hairpins on second gear, or if you have many "medium" corners you can choose box where you can drive those corners in 4th gear and it's best for performance, and in other ratio version in 3rd gear you are over revving and in 4th you're not in proper torque range. It was especially important in S2000 cars where useful range of revs was quite small comparing to turbo cars. Because of that those cars had many different gear ratio versions homologated plus few sets of drop gears. So you will be able to use shorter first 3 gears and longer rest, or opposite, or some different set. And fine tune that with drop gear. Maybe with time we will have similar range to choose from in R5 cars.

Shaved gravel tires for tarmac super special stages are quite popular option on regions where you have many gravel rallies and tarmac tires not allowed. There are even special machines made to "cut" thread of those tires.

[dimviii]

sometimes you can go faster as gearbox allows it, but engine has not enough power to reach that speed, or it simply takes too long, as the car is almost not accelerating above 170kmh for example.


thats right.A stage maybe has some long straight sections,but if these sections are uphill is not so sure if the long geared car will manage to accelerate to its limiter.Depents of power,how much uphill is,how long etc.
I was in such a section at Saturday evening ,and while some s2000 were on limiter for some 100-200 meters,208 couldn t accelerate more.You could hear the motor couldn t rev more revs.Probably the uphill won the 208 engine power at high revs.

this is an incar from maybe fastest Greek asphalt driver.He drives once a year,maybe less due to budget.
worth to to watch.He was 0,8-1,2 sec km slower from stage winners with a n4 evo 9(not r4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIEFHLiCvkY

[V.Gatev]

Slavov SS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9VFwM0bp3k&feature=share&list=UUng6S-mqBs0zpx9oPQfO1ew

[nafpaktos]

this is an incar from maybe fastest Greek asphalt driver.He drives once a year,maybe less due to budget.
worth to to watch.He was 0,8-1,2 sec km slower from stage winners with a n4 evo 9(not r4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIEFHLiCvkY
You forgot to mention that his car was illegal.

[dimviii]

You forgot to mention that his car was illegal.
yes it was illegal,and rightly excluded.
BUT this spare part they found installed the wrong way,is something ''common'' at almost every evo grN.
blow off valve was instaled the wrong way,because at the right way starts to leak at high turbo pressures.

[Munkvy]

I was curious about just how fast the average speeds were on tarmac, as that is a good indicator of just how high speed overall the event was.

From rally base:

SS1 121.32
SS2 123.93
SS3 104.57
SS4 119.23
SS5 124.95
SS6 105.48

SS1, 2, 4 and 5 were all very high speeds. Comparing to both Ypres and Barum last year these stages were a good 10-15km/hr faster than ANY stage in those events. And remember that's average speed. That's significantly faster, therefore you have to theorise that the drivers spent a vast amount of time above the average speed to get that average speed. So the longer ratio could well have benefited here.

In general though I felt both Skoda drivers were not up to the task. Sepp has never shown any real ability to be a top 3 driver. Top 5 yes, but never a podium driver at this level of competition, so no great surprise in this event. Lappi I was definitely disappointed in him on gravel, yes we didn't expect him to win the event, but did expect to see consistent fast pace on gravel at least.

Kevin seems to be quite quick (I don't know much about him), but Breen yes he is quick, but he has also quite regularly been beaten in ERC and WRC2 by a variety of drivers. However, you could possibly say that may be down to his choice of car potentially?

So I am not sure if this is a case of having the faster car, or maybe having a car that was as good as his opposition and Breen was finally able to fight on a level playing field?

However Bouffier definitely got the raw deal in this event, if only he hadn't had that puncture this could have been a win for him. But that's rallying for you!

[Mirek]

I was curious about just how fast the average speeds were on tarmac, as that is a good indicator of just how high speed overall the event was.

From rally base:

SS1 121.32
SS2 123.93
SS3 104.57
SS4 119.23
SS5 124.95
SS6 105.48

SS1, 2, 4 and 5 were all very high speeds. Comparing to both Ypres and Barum last year these stages were a good 10-15km/hr faster than ANY stage in those events. And remember that's average speed. That's significantly faster, therefore you have to theorise that the drivers spent a vast amount of time above the average speed to get that average speed. So the longer ratio could well have benefited here.


I think that You need to know the nature of the stages to compare. For example last year many stages of Barum were driven on wet. We also have plenty of safety chicanes installed after the series of tragic accidents. In fact there is a rule in Czech rallying that average speed must not exceed 120 km/h so the organizers are forced to implement slow sections in villages to make the stages slower. If stage Maják (for example) was run without chicanes and without slow spectator hairpins in every village it would be probably well over 130 km/h.

Check after 3:20 in live coverage from Maják 2012 on wet (no chicanes that year). It's with longest S2000 gearbox.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYwXZIjySIM

With Ypres it is similar. In my opinion their stages are even faster sometimes but they have plenty of first gear junctions on narrow roads. Those were not in Greece. Between them there are many rpm limiter sections, especially the long stage Heuvelland how it was run in 2012. That was nice example because while on other stages Loix in private Pug was able to keep with Hänninen on works Škoda on Heuvelland he lost hell of a time in both runs because his car had 10 km/h lower top speed and there are really several kilometers long straights on rpm limiter. You can not see that from average speed value.

This is Hänninen on Heuvelland, check after 2:25 or after 4:05, this is with the longest S2000 gearbox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf_wCPd443M

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Auu1jXgS8s&feature=youtube_gdata

[Mirek]

Great stuff!

[makinen_fan]

yes it was illegal,and rightly excluded.
BUT this spare part they found installed the wrong way,is something ''common'' at almost every evo grN.
blow off valve was instaled the wrong way,because at the right way starts to leak at high turbo pressures.

really nice onboard. does this provide any benefit than the 'legal' way, in terms of engine performance?

[dimviii]

really nice onboard. does this provide any benefit than the 'legal' way, in terms of engine performance?

yes it has.

[Mirek]

Dimitris, I'm not really familiar with the Evo IX but I remember that with Evo VI it was pretty common to block blow-off valve to have higher turbo pressure. During 2003 Barum rally FIA stewards were given an echo and they checked cars on the road section. Most of the crews decided to retire before they were excluded. Only few cars continued, I think three or four of all...

Is ti similar case?

[dimviii]

yes exactly the same.After some 1,6-1,7 bar(depents the blow off valve condition) the turbo pressure push the (weak)spring inside the valve backwards,this allow some air(compressed air from turbo to engine) to escape at the filter inlet.So you have loss of turbo pressure.A loss that you cant block with any legal way.
Most evos use this trick,to install the blow off valve opposite way,so the compressed air pushes the opposite way and now pushes the spring the other way.So no leak but disqualification.http://www.4tforum.gr/phpBB3/images/smilies/lol.gif
the gain is only torque because at higher revs the turbo runs out of pressure ie 1,4-1,5 due to 33mm restrictor,and at these values, the valve is not leaking.

[Mirek]

Thanks

[dimviii]

at 7,50 how Lappi took a puncture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2atwPWzu0o

[Munkvy]

Mirek - good point. However looking at Barum 2012 the average speeds were all between 89-116. So Acropolis was still quite a bit higher.

I am not disagreeing with you that chicanes will reduce the overall speed. But in general I think average speeds in excess of 120km/hr on the majority of the stages is a sign that Acropolis this year was a very fast rally!

Ps thanks for the footage!

On a side note, not sure how many people use the ERC app or check their webpage, but I have to say that they did an impressive job of providing regular updates before, during and after the event. The people running the WRC website and app sure could learn a few things from them! I especially like how they don't just focus on the the top class, or the top drivers too.

[dimviii]

http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142521&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142529&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142541&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142703&g2_serialNumber=1

[dimviii]

http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142756&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142754&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=142750&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143107&g2_serialNumber=1

[dimviii]

http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143109&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143111&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143113&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143133&g2_serialNumber=1

[dimviii]

http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143256&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143276&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143302&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143314&g2_serialNumber=1

[dimviii]

http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143368&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143604&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143612&g2_serialNumber=1
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=143644&g2_serialNumber=1

more
http://www.r40.gr/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=142502

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/10003495_511291722309704_264802735_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10154407_511291715643038_915129699_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10169340_510896989015844_1405488025_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10151762_510819239023619_235692571_n.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.511290848976458.1073741843.388509201254624&type=1

[WRC1]

my gallery from ERC Acropolis 2014

http://www.rallyepics.at/wp/index.php/nggallery/2014/acropolis-rallye-2014?page_id=558

reg

daniel

[WUff1]

Thank you all for those great pictures!

[Mirek]

my gallery from ERC Acropolis 2014

http://www.rallyepics.at/wp/index.php/nggallery/2014/acropolis-rallye-2014?page_id=558

reg

daniel

Nice pictures! Just one point - in Chrome the photos are shown to me always twice in the same frame.

[dimviii]

@wrc1 nice photos mate!

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/sno_023.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/sno_107.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2014/photos/acropolis_rally_2014/sno_018.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=13874&fotograf=200

[Mintexmemory]

In my opinion the best comparison will come in Ypres and Barum. With Loix and Kopecký Škoda was unbeatable there. If Pugs will be faster then these two there it would be all clear. Also both these events are very high speed...

Loix at Ypres and Kopecký at Barum have so much 'experience' of the local roads that they will be able to compensate in some measure for power differential so I'd still expect them to win (Breen has only done both events once IIRC). The fairest comparison will be Circuit of Ireland. Breen doesn't have any significant experience of rallying in Ulster which will have some significant high speed sections, let's see how he goes against the opposition there. I was surprised from the pickems that so few people gave Breen and Abbring much chance. Both are very quick but have previously been given less competitive machinery than their contemporaries. My view is that the Pug is probably better than the Fiesta and clearly better than the S2000s but in Breen and Abbring they have a team that will use the equipment well.

[Mirek]

Loix at Ypres and Kopecký at Barum have so much 'experience' of the local roads that they will be able to compensate in some measure for power differential so I'd still expect them to win.

That's exactly what I meant. If there is really a significant difference in machinery we will clearly see it on these two events. The nice example is 2012 when local king Loix with Pug was not able to stop Hänninen in Ypres despite Hänninen's poor previous record on the event.

CoI won't show much in my opinion. None of ERC regulars knows the event well so there is too much uncertainties about driver's performance. In fact Breen is the only one who did it in the past.

[Jarek Z]

I was surprised from the pickems that so few people gave Breen and Abbring much chance. Both are very quick but have previously been given less competitive machinery than their contemporaries.

I'm sorry, but it's not true. Breen had works Pug 207 S2000 in last year's ERC and was constantly slower than Bouffier in a private 207. Up until Acropolis he has never won even a single rally in ERC. Also Andreucci's stage times in Ciocco were very disappointing, so most people didn't believe in the combination of Breen and 208 R5 being quick in Greece. Nothing surprising about it. Surprise was that Breen won :)

[dimviii]

a nice video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc548v7IgUc&hd=1

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm sorry, but it's not true. Breen had works Pug 207 S2000 in last year's ERC and was constantly slower than Bouffier in a private 207. Up until Acropolis he has never won even a single rally in ERC. Also Andreucci's stage times in Ciocco were very disappointing, so most people didn't believe in the combination of Breen and 208 R5 being quick in Greece. Nothing surprising about it. Surprise was that Breen won :)

No, that isnt fair. Breen was beaten by Bouffier last year in a very similar car, BUT Bouffier had and has a huge amount more experience. Breen set fastest stage times on some events and often lost time through punctures and minor offs, not that much on sheer pace. And it was his very first ERC season on events he was driving for the first time.

And he didnt win an ERC event as they were almost all dominated by Kopecky - a better, far more experienced driver, in the top car (the Skoda which has won for years).

This time it was a more level playing field for Breen with a competitive car, some more experience (although not driven Greece before) and he won fair and square.

[mousti]

Breen had I think always an extensive test before every rally.

[EightGear]

No, that isnt fair. Breen was beaten by Bouffier last year in a very similar car, BUT Bouffier had and has a huge amount more experience. Breen set fastest stage times on some events and often lost time through punctures and minor offs, not that much on sheer pace. And it was his very first ERC season on events he was driving for the first time.

And he didnt win an ERC event as they were almost all dominated by Kopecky - a better, far more experienced driver, in the top car (the Skoda which has won for years).

This time it was a more level playing field for Breen with a competitive car, some more experience (although not driven Greece before) and he won fair and square.


Abbring was faster than him until his car broke down though...

[Mintexmemory]

Breen had I think always an extensive test before every rally.

As you would expect of a works driver preparing notes for future use, very similar to Ogier's Fabia year.


By the way I'm a big admirer of Abbring so this year will see both the Pugistes scoring wins I'm sure

[Mirek]

No, that isnt fair. Breen was beaten by Bouffier last year in a very similar car, BUT Bouffier had and has a huge amount more experience. Breen set fastest stage times on some events and often lost time through punctures and minor offs, not that much on sheer pace. And it was his very first ERC season on events he was driving for the first time.

We discussed this to death before but again...

Bouffier had worse and less reliable private car, almost no budget, zero tests, sometimes new co-driver who brought some money (Ypres where he finished second). You are not fair to him when You are trying to find some advantages of him. the only one was his experience but otherwise he was driving in conditions plenty of others wouldn't even bother to drive over the start ramp.

[mousti]

As you would expect of a works driver preparing notes for future use, very similar to Ogier's Fabia year.


By the way I'm a big admirer of Abbring so this year will see both the Pugistes scoring wins I'm sure

What has notes to do with a testing course? It's quite an advantage such test. I remember the year that Hanninen won he only did 1 run on SD because his Fabia already had a great setup from the test some days before SD.

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

[Mirek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc548v7IgUc

[Mintexmemory]

What has notes to do with a testing course? It's quite an advantage such test. I remember the year that Hanninen won he only did 1 run on SD because his Fabia already had a great setup from the test some days before SD.

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. All of last season, pre-rally testing and the events, with the 207 was designed to give CB the experience required to mount a strong challenge this year. What I can't remember (please remind me if you know) is how much of Craig's testing time was 207 set-up vs 208 development?

[Mirek]

You are both speaking about something else.

Testing prior a rally makes a big advantage mainly in confidence. No matter what You call the test being intended for. Period. :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

My reply was regarding the post about people not picking Breen to win and being surprised that he did.

I wasnt surprised.

[gregwrc]

Our pure motorsport view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwsOqG0R_Pc

[Mirek]

Photos from a friend: http://www.src.czechrallyeweb.net/pages/acropolis2014.htm

http://www.src.czechrallyeweb.net/images/acropolis2014/acropolis2014_53.jpg