Time to make a stand!

[dj_bytedisaster]

This year the powers that be have bent us over the nearest piece of furniture and given us a darn good anal seeing-to. They came up with the brain-dead double-points idea and there was a universal outcry against it - yet they went ahead with it. Designers have been warning for over half a year that a loophole in the rules will lead to ridiculously hideous cars, yet nothing was done. Ecclestone and his posse just do us up the arse, as long as they get our money. It's time to end that!
For nearly a week we've been tormented with one monstrosity after the other. First the Williams "puberty cock", the McLaren "scrotum", the Lotus Forklift and the FIAT LaBeluga, now we get the Toro Rosso "Long Dong Silver". There's simply not enough beer in the world to make this horror collection bearable. It's time to end this madness and the only way to do that is hitting them where it hurts the most - the wallet. I'm not going to watch this semi-pronographic freak-of-nature cabinet. Maybe if the viewer figures come crashing down in a great ball of fire, maybe, just maybe, they begin to understand that you don't f**k with your audience. :mad:

[henners88]

People aren't watching because the racing has been crap and there are too many artificial rules attempting to spice things up. The FIA have messed about with crappy tyres and the drivers have been forced to play what seemed like an arcade game with DRS and false overtaking. If you combine that with the amount of countries that are having the F1 coverage pushed onto pay channels, its no wonder F1 is in fast decline. I can see myself missing races this year through lack of interest and I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport as I think F1 will be a has been in a few years. Its not like the fans have not spoken, we've just been ignored. I hope it all crashes and burns and I will take great pleasure knowing I was right from the very start :D

[Bagwan]

Or , you could sit down and watch , and give it a chance .

We have a new engine . That'll throw a huge spanner into the mix . Nobody really knows who will have it right in power , driveability , or reliability .

With the new regs , you may not be very happy with all the new looks out there , but at least they are all different as the designers struggle to find their way .
Take off the livery this year and you'd actually be able to figure out what is what .

Pirelli will have more testing this year , and so , should have a better handle on it .

Having a double points finish doesn't really change anything as all the teams know it's coming .
It does , however , deal with the fact that there is a lot less excitement to seeing a driver sew it up with four rounds to go .
I don't particularly like the idea , but it is far from a deal-breaker for me . It's far from it , in fact , as I am interested to see how it effects the dynamic near the end .

It comes in loud and clear with my satellite dish , but the lack of FTA telecasting is worrisome .
Those at the top need to realize that they need the great unwashed , in front of which the elite may parade .
Having a brand new FIA Sharpie is great , but without the outstretched programs , there's nothing to sign .


Basically , we have a new series this year , so , it would be a shame for you guys to miss it .

[jens]

Cars look normal on the whole and then they have this "thing" at the front. Almost looks like someone is teasing us. And Ferrari is hilarious too, a proper vacuum cleaner.

In short, those car releases have been a good :laugh:.

Also there is a safety aspect if something sticks so far out at the front, it could cause punctures like the wide front wing.

I will be following this season though, as long as it has interesting racing and an open and close season. Want to see, how does this major regulation change play out in reality.

[Storm]

I came back to F1 in a big way in 2013 after being lukewarm for a couple of years (other personal reasons too) but the overall crappy "championship" battle that we saw last year was bad enough, now to be inundated by silly regs/rules and horror movie/freakshows. I just hope the racing/title race is better as I am not giving it too many races to convince me to keep watching!

[henners88]

Or , you could sit down and watch , and give it a chance .

We have a new engine . That'll throw a huge spanner into the mix . Nobody really knows who will have it right in power , driveability , or reliability .

With the new regs , you may not be very happy with all the new looks out there , but at least they are all different as the designers struggle to find their way .
Take off the livery this year and you'd actually be able to figure out what is what .

Pirelli will have more testing this year , and so , should have a better handle on it .

Having a double points finish doesn't really change anything as all the teams know it's coming .
It does , however , deal with the fact that there is a lot less excitement to seeing a driver sew it up with four rounds to go .
I don't particularly like the idea , but it is far from a deal-breaker for me . It's far from it , in fact , as I am interested to see how it effects the dynamic near the end .

It comes in loud and clear with my satellite dish , but the lack of FTA telecasting is worrisome .
Those at the top need to realize that they need the great unwashed , in front of which the elite may parade .
Having a brand new FIA Sharpie is great , but without the outstretched programs , there's nothing to sign .


Basically , we have a new series this year , so , it would be a shame for you guys to miss it .
Its not just the regs that make it less appealing for me at the moment, its a variety of things. I'll still watch and still get satisfaction when a favourable driver wins. If you take the first 2 races for instance. They are not even shown on FTA television in the UK so its a couple of highlights shows. Hardly raising the excitement of a brand new season for us fans. Sure I can watch on Sky Go or illegal stream but its becoming a bit of a chore, especially when I prefer to watch a full race delayed anyway. F1 is disappearing in the UK and its getting to the point where we are trying to hang on to a series that really doesn't care whether people are watching it or not.

In 2018 or perhaps before (hope not) we'll see FOM strike a deal with BSKYB to show F1 exclusively and that'll be me gone. I'm not breaking the bank for a sport that showed no loyalty to the fans who have made it as popular as it once was. I'll watch the first few races on this season and see whether my thirst is still there, if not I'll focus more on my other hobbies. I'm not alone with my feelings, F1 is losing so many fans and its about time they took notice.

[Tazio]

I don't like the direction F1 has been going over the last few years. Hopefully they will come to their senses and put it right. Unfortunately I have this addiction, and I can't see myself 12 stepping F1, so I will continue to watch, and enjoy.

[Bagwan]

Or , you could sit down and watch , and give it a chance .

We have a new engine . That'll throw a huge spanner into the mix . Nobody really knows who will have it right in power , driveability , or reliability .

With the new regs , you may not be very happy with all the new looks out there , but at least they are all different as the designers struggle to find their way .
Take off the livery this year and you'd actually be able to figure out what is what .

Pirelli will have more testing this year , and so , should have a better handle on it .

Having a double points finish doesn't really change anything as all the teams know it's coming .
It does , however , deal with the fact that there is a lot less excitement to seeing a driver sew it up with four rounds to go .
I don't particularly like the idea , but it is far from a deal-breaker for me . It's far from it , in fact , as I am interested to see how it effects the dynamic near the end .

It comes in loud and clear with my satellite dish , but the lack of FTA telecasting is worrisome .
Those at the top need to realize that they need the great unwashed , in front of which the elite may parade .
Having a brand new FIA Sharpie is great , but without the outstretched programs , there's nothing to sign .


Basically , we have a new series this year , so , it would be a shame for you guys to miss it .
Its not just the regs that make it less appealing for me at the moment, its a variety of things. I'll still watch and still get satisfaction when a favourable driver wins. If you take the first 2 races for instance. They are not even shown on FTA television in the UK so its a couple of highlights shows. Hardly raising the excitement of a brand new season for us fans. Sure I can watch on Sky Go or illegal stream but its becoming a bit of a chore, especially when I prefer to watch a full race delayed anyway. F1 is disappearing in the UK and its getting to the point where we are trying to hang on to a series that really doesn't care whether people are watching it or not.

In 2018 or perhaps before (hope not) we'll see FOM strike a deal with BSKYB to show F1 exclusively and that'll be me gone. I'm not breaking the bank for a sport that showed no loyalty to the fans who have made it as popular as it once was. I'll watch the first few races on this season and see whether my thirst is still there, if not I'll focus more on my other hobbies. I'm not alone with my feelings, F1 is losing so many fans and its about time they took notice.

I am in total agreement with your stance on FTA TV .
But , on the other hand , that's all changing right now with internet streams .
It's still a little funny how they don't really seem to understand how to market with it .

Spending a lot of time blocking U tube videos has them missing the fact that there are a lot of people missing out on seeing all that sponsor signage on the cars every time it's played .
Having hard data on views seems like it would play into the hands of the marketers , or at least the guys that count the money .

I hope you find a way to watch , because it does certainly seem like they are losing the plot .

[steveaki13]

I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport

Interesting too hear Henners. What other motorsports are you following this year. I follow a few other series and occasionally post in the other sections of this forum. :)

[steveaki13]

I don't like the direction F1 has been going over the last few years. Hopefully they will come to their senses and put it right. Unfortunately I have this addiction, and I can't see myself 12 stepping F1, so I will continue to watch, and enjoy.

I am the same. I thought about not watching but I just don't think I would be able to avoid it.

[airshifter]

I'll be watching until the racing becomes utterly boring, and at this point it's still a long way from that IMO. Sure we've had the introduction of DRS, KERS, the tires being the same, etc, but all teams have the relative same opportunity to build within these regs, and the best teams and drivers still rise to the top. IMO it's much better racing than when a team could spend stupid amounts of money on a better car, have tires that weren't equal team to team, and walk away with very easy wins.

I remember times when racing was much less exciting than it is now, and much of that was due to not having regs that allowed for racing. Giant trains of faster cars behind much slower cars due to aero regs, small teams having little if any chance to find a footing to survive in the sport, drivers that admitted the car was the vast majority of the equation, etc.


I'm not an automatic fan or hater of any of these new ideas until we see how it pans out. Double points at the final race may seem stupid, but it almost ensures that most teams will develop the car through the entire season unless they have enough margin that it can't be overcome by the team below them in the standings.

[Big Ben]

I'll keep on watching 'the show' just the way I did last year... in between naps and only if I really don't have anything better to do on a Sunday afternoon. I remember the days when I would actually make an effort to arrange my schedule around races... and when I couldn't watch them I couldn't wait to find out what happened... but then they came up with ideas like DRS, crappy tires, no testing... and now double points for the final race and budget caps... and on top of that we have this annoying brat racing by himself winning title after title... I must say it is a show indeed... a horror show

It was on my must do list to attend a f1 race but I don't think it's worth the money anymore

[henners88]

I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport

Interesting too hear Henners. What other motorsports are you following this year. I follow a few other series and occasionally post in the other sections of this forum. :)
Mostly bikes although they don't get the kind of coverage F1 does, I seem to be enjoying the fact there is still an element of independents making a name for themselves and far less politics. I've had an open invitation to the Isle of Man for years now and I keep passing it up. I think 2015 I will make my first trip as my cousin lives on the course and usually has a garden full of people and a good atmosphere.


I'll be watching until the racing becomes utterly boring, and at this point it's still a long way from that IMO. Sure we've had the introduction of DRS, KERS, the tires being the same, etc, but all teams have the relative same opportunity to build within these regs, and the best teams and drivers still rise to the top. IMO it's much better racing than when a team could spend stupid amounts of money on a better car, have tires that weren't equal team to team, and walk away with very easy wins.

I remember times when racing was much less exciting than it is now, and much of that was due to not having regs that allowed for racing. Giant trains of faster cars behind much slower cars due to aero regs, small teams having little if any chance to find a footing to survive in the sport, drivers that admitted the car was the vast majority of the equation, etc.


I'm not an automatic fan or hater of any of these new ideas until we see how it pans out. Double points at the final race may seem stupid, but it almost ensures that most teams will develop the car through the entire season unless they have enough margin that it can't be overcome by the team below them in the standings.
My main gripe is the way F1 is making it harder for fans to watch and although its not completely boring (has been of late though), it has made me question whether I could miss a season or two. I've done it before in the past and up until recently I thought I loved F1, but have realised I actually love good racing. I've got the same enjoyment out of other forms of motorsport and to be honest, its a positive thing. I've always concentrated purely on F1 and a bit of MotoGP, not so bothered about the latter recently. I've never divided my time between other racing series. Friends of mine who also follow F1 have always argued there are better forms of racing out there and I've always arrogantly denied this, however I think there is scope to consider enjoying more traditional motorsports.

With F1 slowly edging on to Satellite only and the last of the FTA biding their time until the contract runs out, it doesn't matter if the racing improves and is the best ever, if hardly anybody is watching then F1 needs to look at how they threw it all away. Just my observation. I will watch this season when I can and will undoubtedly still find some enjoyment from it. Lets hope Hamilton has a car to compete and we have a Mercedes Ferrari battle this year for a change. :)

[steveaki13]

Sounds good Henners.

Definitely worth making an effort of make use of that invitation. I have never been but It must be something special

[ShiftingGears]

I really enjoy the variety of the new cars.

[steveaki13]

Same

[AndyL]

Mostly bikes although they don't get the kind of coverage F1 does, I seem to be enjoying the fact there is still an element of independents making a name for themselves and far less politics. I've had an open invitation to the Isle of Man for years now and I keep passing it up. I think 2015 I will make my first trip as my cousin lives on the course and usually has a garden full of people and a good atmosphere.

Definitely recommended. There is nothing quite like it. You don't get views like this (http://www.squit.co.uk/photo/mgp12/junior/35b.html) at Silverstone. For party atmosphere, mind-boggling speeds and general craziness you can't beat the TT. But also consider the Classic TT/Manx GP in August - still great to watch, but more laid-back, much easier to get ferry bookings, tables in restaurants, good viewing spots etc. Where does your cousin live?

[truefan72]

I don't like the direction F1 has been going over the last few years. Hopefully they will come to their senses and put it right. Unfortunately I have this addiction, and I can't see myself 12 stepping F1, so I will continue to watch, and enjoy.

that's how I feel too.
many things in F1 worry me, and I've tried to kick the habit. even in 2013 with the vettel/RBR borefest i hung on bravely to watch each race. Perhap hoping for a miracle or perhaps being a fool ,who knows. I've watched f1 for over 30 years now and the only period where I really didn't watch it were the 2000-2004 years. Yes, the broadcasting situation is somewhat ridiculous, and I have resigned myself to "other means" to watch it. But I still get a some pleasure out of watching the races and the race starts still make me super nervous and on the edge of my seat.

I simply find it hard to let go, and frankly there isn't another series that brings me the same pleasure. Maybe if LMP1 cars had an expanded series with shorter races and more teams, but still maintained LeMans24h then perhaps i might focus on that. I do love those LMP1 cars though, but can't see myself dedicating an entire day to watch those races on a consistent basis. MotoGP is in even worse shape than f1 with only 2 teams with any chance of winning and a small field etc, Rally is nowhere to be found on the telly and is pretty much a shadow of its former glory. WTTC leaves a lot to be desired, especially since the cars and speed are uninspiring, as well as the drivers. GT series looked promising in 2013 but a bunch of amatuer drivers mixed with some good ones, inconsistent broadcast schedule and some really shaky regs means that the series still needs some maturity. IRL...please. NASCAR only when I need the TV on in the background while I take long sunday summer naps, only waking up for the last caution and green/white checker.

So its F1 for me.

[henners88]

Definitely recommended. There is nothing quite like it. You don't get views like this (http://www.squit.co.uk/photo/mgp12/junior/35b.html) at Silverstone. For party atmosphere, mind-boggling speeds and general craziness you can't beat the TT. But also consider the Classic TT/Manx GP in August - still great to watch, but more laid-back, much easier to get ferry bookings, tables in restaurants, good viewing spots etc. Where does your cousin live?
Yeah its something I have wanted to do for years and have promised to go but never organised anything. My cousin lives on a farm off the A1 but not sure exactly where. Its on quite a fast section apparently. The classic TT sounds good and perhaps I will try and do the main TT first and hopefully get an invite back. :)

[RJM]

I don't like the direction F1 has been going over the last few years. Hopefully they will come to their senses and put it right. Unfortunately I have this addiction, and I can't see myself 12 stepping F1, so I will continue to watch, and enjoy.

that's how I feel too.
many things in F1 worry me, and I've tried to kick the habit. even in 2013 with the vettel/RBR borefest i hung on bravely to watch each race. Perhap hoping for a miracle or perhaps being a fool ,who knows. I've watched f1 for over 30 years now and the only period where I really didn't watch it were the 2000-2004 years. Yes, the broadcasting situation is somewhat ridiculous, and I have resigned myself to "other means" to watch it. But I still get a some pleasure out of watching the races and the race starts still make me super nervous and on the edge of my seat.

I simply find it hard to let go, and frankly there isn't another series that brings me the same pleasure. Maybe if LMP1 cars had an expanded series with shorter races and more teams, but still maintained LeMans24h then perhaps i might focus on that. I do love those LMP1 cars though, but can't see myself dedicating an entire day to watch those races on a consistent basis. MotoGP is in even worse shape than f1 with only 2 teams with any chance of winning and a small field etc, Rally is nowhere to be found on the telly and is pretty much a shadow of its former glory. WTTC leaves a lot to be desired, especially since the cars and speed are uninspiring, as well as the drivers. GT series looked promising in 2013 but a bunch of amatuer drivers mixed with some good ones, inconsistent broadcast schedule and some really shaky regs means that the series still needs some maturity. IRL...please. NASCAR only when I need the TV on in the background while I take long sunday summer naps, only waking up for the last caution and green/white checker.

So its F1 for me.

Rally is on itv4, bt sport and motors tv... two british drivers in factory cars, engines sound similar now aswell, that force indias nose is ridiculous and i cant keep a straight face when looking at the caterham..

[MrJan]

I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport

Interesting too hear Henners. What other motorsports are you following this year. I follow a few other series and occasionally post in the other sections of this forum. :)

As someone who has been raised as a general motorsport fan I have always found it weird when people like F1 but don't bother with any other forms.

It's a shame that people don't watch the rallying, motor bikes and touring cars that are available on free TV in the UK, but the real pity is that there are fantastic events that happen all over the country every year that people take no notice of. Give me the choice between watching F1 on the telly or going to watch a live rally, circuit race, hillclimb, classic trial or virtually anything else car based, and the live choice will pretty much always win out. Hell you can even compete for about £15 and do it in a standard road car (I did an autosolo 2 weeks ago in a 1.6 diesel Focus). If F1 turns into a crap season (even if it doesn't) I'd urge you to get out and about and see what's happening in your area, because most weekends there'll be something you can go to.

[BDunnell]

Its not just the regs that make it less appealing for me at the moment, its a variety of things. I'll still watch and still get satisfaction when a favourable driver wins. If you take the first 2 races for instance. They are not even shown on FTA television in the UK so its a couple of highlights shows.

That's a big thing for me. The season-opener is bound to be one of the more interesting races of the season, for obvious reasons this year. Were I able to watch it live on free-to-air TV I would probably be more inclined to keep watching, but I can't, so I won't. My F1 viewing was almost non-existent last year. This year I suspect it will be much the same.

[BDunnell]

As someone who has been raised as a general motorsport fan I have always found it weird when people like F1 but don't bother with any other forms.

Me too. The trouble is that my main love, rallying, has been so emasculated in recent years as to have turned me off as well (though 2014's WRC does hold far more interest than has been the case of late) At least I still have touring cars and sportscars, both of which are looking excellent this season.

[henners88]

Its not just the regs that make it less appealing for me at the moment, its a variety of things. I'll still watch and still get satisfaction when a favourable driver wins. If you take the first 2 races for instance. They are not even shown on FTA television in the UK so its a couple of highlights shows.

That's a big thing for me. The season-opener is bound to be one of the more interesting races of the season, for obvious reasons this year. Were I able to watch it live on free-to-air TV I would probably be more inclined to keep watching, but I can't, so I won't. My F1 viewing was almost non-existent last year. This year I suspect it will be much the same.
Indeed I really don't know how they expect people to be interested if the first 2 races are not even on TV. By the third race you just feel like you are late to the party, plus without the ability to record these early races, i'll likely miss them this year. Is the sport actually bothered by the decline though? I don't think they are at the moment because there is still the arrogance that bums on seats make no difference.

[donKey jote]

T'internet is my friend :)

[The Black Knight]

People aren't watching because the racing has been crap and there are too many artificial rules attempting to spice things up. The FIA have messed about with crappy tyres and the drivers have been forced to play what seemed like an arcade game with DRS and false overtaking. If you combine that with the amount of countries that are having the F1 coverage pushed onto pay channels, its no wonder F1 is in fast decline. I can see myself missing races this year through lack of interest and I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport as I think F1 will be a has been in a few years. Its not like the fans have not spoken, we've just been ignored. I hope it all crashes and burns and I will take great pleasure knowing I was right from the very start :D

I heartily endorse this message/product.

F1 is gone to shite. Last year was ridiculous seeing Sebastien Vettel win all of the last 9 races. The guys is simply not that good and I don't believe for a second that he would have ever managed that without having a car that was sometimes 2 seconds faster than the rest of the field.

Maybe we'll see what he's really like this year when he is, hopefully, in a car that is not the best on the grid.

I don't mind how the cars look this year, honestly, there have been ugly F1 cars in the pasts. The worst things about F1 at the moment, in my opinion, is Pirelli and DRS. Too many artificial rules stagnating engineering marvel. F1 is about the show but you can have that without artificial rules. This sport is going down completely the wrong direction. It simply doesn't want to go fast anymore and the rules are designed in a way that they inhibit the raw talent and natural pace of aggressive drivers like Lewis Hamilton, Alonso and others. It's depressing watching this compared to other F1 races we used to see in the past.

[zako85]

Come on guys. Have some sense of humor. I can't wait to see the new cars on TV.

[zako85]

People aren't watching because the racing has been crap and there are too many artificial rules attempting to spice things up. The FIA have messed about with crappy tyres and the drivers have been forced to play what seemed like an arcade game with DRS and false overtaking. If you combine that with the amount of countries that are having the F1 coverage pushed onto pay channels, its no wonder F1 is in fast decline. I can see myself missing races this year through lack of interest and I'm already starting to follow other forms of motorsport as I think F1 will be a has been in a few years. Its not like the fans have not spoken, we've just been ignored. I hope it all crashes and burns and I will take great pleasure knowing I was right from the very start :D

I heartily endorse this message/product.

F1 is gone to shite. Last year was ridiculous seeing Sebastien Vettel win all of the last 9 races. The guys is simply not that good and I don't believe for a second that he would have ever managed that without having a car that was sometimes 2 seconds faster than the rest of the field.

It was an unfortunate year when it made logical sense for most teams once they lost the bid to win the championship to stop investing in 2013 chassis and start working on the next year's chassis as soon as they could. It didn't help that McLaren started the year with one of its worst cars in many years. The team that turned out to be the biggest letdown was Ferrari, who didn't develop their car much after the summer GPs. This resulted in a strange situation when Lotus and its unpaid drivers seemed to be the only team trying to be on Red Bull's way. Now this can actually hurt RedBull. They already admitted that they should have started the 2014 car development earlier.

[truefan72]

Its not just the regs that make it less appealing for me at the moment, its a variety of things. I'll still watch and still get satisfaction when a favourable driver wins. If you take the first 2 races for instance. They are not even shown on FTA television in the UK so its a couple of highlights shows.

That's a big thing for me. The season-opener is bound to be one of the more interesting races of the season, for obvious reasons this year. Were I able to watch it live on free-to-air TV I would probably be more inclined to keep watching, but I can't, so I won't. My F1 viewing was almost non-existent last year. This year I suspect it will be much the same.
Indeed I really don't know how they expect people to be interested if the first 2 races are not even on TV. By the third race you just feel like you are late to the party, plus without the ability to record these early races, i'll likely miss them this year. Is the sport actually bothered by the decline though? I don't think they are at the moment because there is still the arrogance that bums on seats make no difference.

some interesting numbers from 2013
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula ... 1--f1.html (http://eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-f1-audience-drop-blamed-vettel-154417741--f1.html)

in a way it validates your point, but then again numbers were up in the UK and US both of whom having a mix of free and paid service (NBC sports isn't part of basic cable in many markets and the online stuff is noly good if you already have cable service and that additional package)

But predictably, the numbers got hammered in China, Russia, France and other markets where the greedy mongrels led by Bernie decided to go with the paid providers, ostensibly because they paid more and actually need less viewers to recoup their costs. Bernie may try to blame Vettel for the decline, but the truth is that greed got the better of them. High ticket prices forced by high race sanctioning fees, absurdly high tv contracts and a show that was less than thrilling all plaid their part. The latter being the least of the reasons.

I also wonder how many of those folks they lost actually watched it online by some other means. I would guess that number to be solidly in the ten's of millions globally. probably enough t make up the 65 million they lost throughout the entire year.

Its kind of funny how the FIA is trying their hardest to force cost cutting measures "for the good of the sport" on teams when they themselves appear to be doing the exact opposite. even super license fees seem to double every year

[janneppi]

I also wonder how many of those folks they lost actually watched it online by some other means. I would guess that number to be solidly in the ten's of millions globally. probably enough t make up the 65 million they lost throughout the entire year.

Finnish broadcaster of F1 switched to showing live races to the pay channel few years ago. Despite not being willing to pay for it I haven't missed many races since then. ;)

[driveace]

I fully agree that F1 has got very boring these last 3 or 4 years,as has been said when the German guy has a car that is 2 seconds a Lap faster than all the other cars,and I don't ever think we saw the true potential of that car as nobody was able to challenge him.His team mate got pissed off too,and Horner got cocky ,even though they were caught out cheating 3 or 4 times last season .It appeared to be be ,don't let's upset the owner of RB and TR or if he takes his ball home ,we are minus 4 cars.
This year has got to be fairer,with closer racing ,less cheating,and tighter scrutineering too .
The races on freeTV I will watch,but I will not pay to watch a race ,my true love is rallying,and I believe rally drivers are better all round drivers too
I feel that Lewis was in another world in the latter part of last season ,and as he knew the RB was unbeatable,he even more or less said it was illegal,but then was forced to retract that statement ,he was happy to just drive around and finish ,and showed no fight.Alonso had a better year but with a crap car ,and maybe he must up his game this year or Kimi wil make him look like a guy who will not win another championship .
I will watch the start of races BUT if it's a runaway from the start ,then I shall go and wash the cars !

[dj_bytedisaster]

I fully agree that F1 has got very boring these last 3 or 4 years,as has been said when the German guy has a car that is 2 seconds a Lap faster than all the other cars,and I don't ever think we saw the true potential of that car as nobody was able to challenge him.His team mate got pissed off too,and Horner got cocky ,even though they were caught out cheating 3 or 4 times last season .It appeared to be be ,don't let's upset the owner of RB and TR or if he takes his ball home ,we are minus 4 cars.
This year has got to be fairer,with closer racing ,less cheating,and tighter scrutineering too .

I'd be very interested in learning about the 3 cases of cheating by RB last year or did you just make that up? Also, I'd be very interested to learn, how Vettel's car was 2 seconds faster than anyone else's. Since he never qualified even a second faster than the next best car, that would mean, Vettel is over a second slower than Hamilton and Alonso. You have some interesting theories there, or as they are known where I come from - complete and utter bullshit. :hmph:

[henners88]

Not cheating, just the finest British engineering finding the many loopholes in the specified regs and doing a damned fine job of getting away with it lol. This year I hope its Mercedes, although I don't want to be watching them running away with the championship. It takes the fun out of it for me as I like to be on the edge of my seat and have something to cheer at the end! :)

[rjbetty]

I don't really mind Vettel winning; it's all the stale stuff throughout the field that is the big turn off for me. 2-3 retirements per race, 4 if you're lucky, 5 on a really crazyday. Endless tarmac runoff which while safe, just means cars drive back on the track when in the 90s and before you'd be OUUUUUT. I'm quite surprised how many people are fine with this, almost the same as watching a full replay of a Codemasters F1 game race.

I'm not that bothered about the noses, but feel it's a silly and unneccessary rule, and before Adrian Newey said so, I felt they could be more dangerous. He said that now, a car running into the back of another could get "submerged" and that the rear of the front car could ride up the following car's monocoque and into the driver's face. This doesn't look smart...

I don't like the double points, but will find it too much to bear if it goes to THREE races!

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

[dj_bytedisaster]

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Can you please tell me, where the fascination is in seeing a car break down? Call me old fashioned, but isn't the whole point of a car to be a RELIABLE mode of transport? I've never understood, why people want to see cars fail. That's a stupid idea.

[steveaki13]

Fact is that some of the races I have enjoyed most have been races where only 6 cars finish. You can have exciting races with 20 finishing and exciting races with 6 finishing, but on the whole some of the predictable racing seen in the last 4 seasons or so has been down to regs and the fact that all the cars finish.

Back 10-20 years Caterham would have been scoring 7-10 points a season rather than always racing 16th-22nd. Minardi were one of the most popular 2nd teams in recent history but if the racing had been like today, they would not have scored any points and never survived. Smaller teams rely on crazy days.

It also stops the best car winning every single race in a season most of the time. Otherwise many seasons would be over by August.

Its only a small part, but it has provided some up and downs over the years. The last 4 seasons have been OK, but have lost something for me. My opinion but it'll never be changed.

I'm with rjbetty.

[henners88]

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Can you please tell me, where the fascination is in seeing a car break down? Call me old fashioned, but isn't the whole point of a car to be a RELIABLE mode of transport? I've never understood, why people want to see cars fail. That's a stupid idea.
Its exciting because it is the unknown. Its frustrating if its your favourite driver that breaks down but some of the best races from the past have had 5 or 6 different leaders before the end. I've seen a lot of excitement throughout F1 forums recently because of the potential for unreliability in the youth of these new engines, so its not as stupid as you may think.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Can you please tell me, where the fascination is in seeing a car break down? Call me old fashioned, but isn't the whole point of a car to be a RELIABLE mode of transport? I've never understood, why people want to see cars fail. That's a stupid idea.
Its exciting because it is the unknown. Its frustrating if its your favourite driver that breaks down but some of the best races from the past have had 5 or 6 different leaders before the end. I've seen a lot of excitement throughout F1 forums recently because of the potential for unreliability in the youth of these new engines, so its not as stupid as you may think.

One of the best races - as far as craziness goes - have been given to us by rain (Donnington 1993, Barcelona 1996, Nürburgring 1999), so I don't think we'll need exploding cars for that. Frankly, I think this whole 'hoping for breakdowns' malarkey is just wanting your hated driver to explode. Not counting that hating drivers is window-licking stupid to begin with, it simply adds nothing to see cars break down. Just have a bit of rain, that's all we need. In that regard last year was a bit freakish as it barely rained all year, but that's what makes these races so special - they don't happen twice every year. I bet by Barcelona, when we had half the field blow up for the fifth time in a row, it will get old, too. Crazy races aren't special anymore if they happen too often.

[henners88]

One of the best races - as far as craziness goes - have been given to us by rain (Donnington 1993, Barcelona 1996, Nürburgring 1999), so I don't think we'll need exploding cars for that. Frankly, I think this whole 'hoping for breakdowns' malarkey is just wanting your hated driver to explode. Not counting that hating drivers is window-licking stupid to begin with, it simply adds nothing to see cars break down. Just have a bit of rain, that's all we need. In that regard last year was a bit freakish as it barely rained all year, but that's what makes these races so special - they don't happen twice every year. I bet by Barcelona, when we had half the field blow up for the fifth time in a row, it will get old, too. Crazy races aren't special anymore if they happen too often.
Well that is the beauty of F1, we can find excitement and enjoyment in our own ways. Wanting a bit of uncertainty with the new engines for me has nothing to do with hating a driver, in fact I don't think I hate any of them. An engine failure can affect anybody after all.

[driveace]

I fully agree that F1 has got very boring these last 3 or 4 years,as has been said when the German guy has a car that is 2 seconds a Lap faster than all the other cars,and I don't ever think we saw the true potential of that car as nobody was able to challenge him.His team mate got pissed off too,and Horner got cocky ,even though they were caught out cheating 3 or 4 times last season .It appeared to be be ,don't let's upset the owner of RB and TR or if he takes his ball home ,we are minus 4 cars.
This year has got to be fairer,with closer racing ,less cheating,and tighter scrutineering too .

I'd be very interested in learning about the 3 cases of cheating by RB last year or did you just make that up? Also, I'd be very interested to learn, how Vettel's car was 2 seconds faster than anyone else's. Since he never qualified even a second faster than the next best car, that would mean, Vettel is over a second slower than Hamilton and Alonso. You have some interesting theories there, or as they are known where I come from - complete and utter bullshit. :hmph:
So you don't remember the flex front wing,or the debatable flex rear wing ,or the holes in the floor ?Or the complaining about the tyres ,that got the previous years tyres reinstated? It was RB that benefitted more than any other team .
You question Vettels car being 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other teams car,BUT we really don't know how quick that car really was as he was never challenged lap after lap for a whole race,off into the distance and control the race from the front,that way you don't have to show all your cards .At one point last year Lewis said the RB was 2 seconds a lap quicker,but was forced to backtrack on his statement .In final quailifying all the other team used all the available time to get pole ,RB were so confident ,they only did one qualifying lap on lots of occasions. Do YOU want to see a RACE or a procession ,as we saw on numerous occasions last year ,or some racing ?Are you Sebs No 1 fan ,as I notice you are always on his defense.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I fully agree that F1 has got very boring these last 3 or 4 years,as has been said when the German guy has a car that is 2 seconds a Lap faster than all the other cars,and I don't ever think we saw the true potential of that car as nobody was able to challenge him.His team mate got pissed off too,and Horner got cocky ,even though they were caught out cheating 3 or 4 times last season .It appeared to be be ,don't let's upset the owner of RB and TR or if he takes his ball home ,we are minus 4 cars.
This year has got to be fairer,with closer racing ,less cheating,and tighter scrutineering too .

I'd be very interested in learning about the 3 cases of cheating by RB last year or did you just make that up? Also, I'd be very interested to learn, how Vettel's car was 2 seconds faster than anyone else's. Since he never qualified even a second faster than the next best car, that would mean, Vettel is over a second slower than Hamilton and Alonso. You have some interesting theories there, or as they are known where I come from - complete and utter bullshit. :hmph:

So you don't remember the flex front wing,or the debatable flex rear wing ,or the holes in the floor ?Or the complaining about the tyres ,that got the previous years tyres reinstated? It was RB that benefitted more than any other team .

Ok, now I know that you haven't got the slightest cue what the eff you're talking about. First of all: You claimed that RB had cheated 3 or 4 times last year, which is factually wrong. They weren't busted even once. The maxime 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't seem to be valid where you come from. Are you by any chance from North Korea or Belarus? The only team that got punished for cheating was Mercedes, because they ran an illegal tyre test.

The Flexi-Wings were talked about in 2012, which, last time I checked wasn't last year. They also passed the FIA tests, so technically they weren't a cheat. They stretched the rules, but were within them and just as a little reminder: They were actually invented by Ferrari and also used by McLaren, so please spread your slobbering hatred a wee bit more evenly.

It wasn't RB's complaining that caused the tyre change in 2013. Exploding tyres - one of them practically in Alonso's face - could have something to do with it and it also wasn't a case of reintroducing the 2012 tyres. They reverted back to the 2012 construction, the compunds stayed 2013, which were softer than 2012.


You question Vettels car being 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other teams car,BUT we really don't know how quick that car really was as he was never challenged lap after lap for a whole race,off into the distance and control the race from the front,that way you don't have to show all your cards.

You obviously missed the German GP then...


At one point last year Lewis said the RB was 2 seconds a lap quicker,but was forced to backtrack on his statement .In final quailifying all the other team used all the available time to get pole ,RB were so confident ,they only did one qualifying lap on lots of occasions. Do YOU want to see a RACE or a procession ,as we saw on numerous occasions last year ,or some racing ?Are you Sebs No 1 fan ,as I notice you are always on his defense.

So the RB was 2 seconds faster, because Lewis said so? He also said he's being rear-ended by FIA 'because I iz black', so that should tell you something about the intellectual capabilities of the man. The 'do only one lap' stunt was used by RB exactly once and it almost backfired when Vettel got nearly beaten by Rosberg. The difference was less than a hundreths of a secon.

Seriously man, you're talking complete bollocks. Did you even see the season or are you just throwing a tantrum because your man got beaten?

[steveaki13]

Who said anything about just enjoying exploding cars. :p

I also enjoy spinning/minor crashing/running out of fuel/driver fatigue/disqualification/driver losing his way, cars as well. :devil: :D

[henners88]

Exploding cars? Sounds like an exaggeration of my point but an interesting one lol.

[Firstgear]

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Can you please tell me, where the fascination is in seeing a car break down? Call me old fashioned, but isn't the whole point of a car to be a RELIABLE mode of transport? I've never understood, why people want to see cars fail. That's a stupid idea.

The point of a (road)car might be reliable transport, but the point of racing isn't. Racing involves stretching technology & humans to the limit. Isn't that what you've been asking for, for the last year or more DJ? When the odd car spins out, or blows the motor, it show us that they're at the limit. This makes it more exciting.
Approximately 10 years ago we had the Williams with the BMW motor pushing the revs to 17k, then 18k then 19k. We knew they were pushing the engineering as far as possible - going where no man/car has gone before. And we knew that there was a descent chance they'd fail to make it to the end because they were so far out on a limb. It was exciting to see them finish, but also to see them blowup because it confirmed they were at the edge.
The final race(s) of the season were the same way, with teams that were still in the running turning up the wick. They were willing to go the "Hero or Zero" route. Some would blow up or spin out, again confirming how close to the edge they were.
To me - that's more exciting to watch than everybody coming home safe and sound almost every time - no spins - no blowups - no stretching the limits of man, machine & engineering. When nobody retires, it feels more like riding the bus home from work.

[zako85]

When I saw the early 2014 cars, I thought that introducing the simple requirement that requires the front wing to be attached to the tip of the nose will eliminate the dick nosed cars. But then I saw Caterham and this hope was destroyed.

[rjbetty]

I hope people don't moan that a bit of unreliability early this year is spicing things up a little too much - it won't stay that way for long! This time next year, it'll be pretty much back to normal and after that everyone will be pretty much invincible. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Can you please tell me, where the fascination is in seeing a car break down? Call me old fashioned, but isn't the whole point of a car to be a RELIABLE mode of transport? I've never understood, why people want to see cars fail. That's a stupid idea.

Thanks for helping me set dj straight everybody. :p ;)

Well, now you mention it, I was watching some vids on youtube recently. One was of testing last week I think, and at some point it must have showed a car with smoke pouring out the back, and I must say it made me go all nostalgic as I realised and wondered how many times I've seen that in recent years.

Call me old fashioned, but I remember the 'old' (late 90s) races where there was drama and interest, as before every race we never knew what was going to happen, who would make the finish. It all adds to the drama and the story of a race when someone is unexpectedly out.

I watched the 1991 Belgian GP recently and was surprised to see early on there was a car retiring almost every lap. It made me realise just how institutionalised (sp?) I had become.

It's not necessarily the failures themselves (though like sparks and wheelspin there is some spectacle there) but I like what they do to create a constantly changing complexion in the race. I also like the fact that some other people get the chance for some higher finishes for a change, as I actually find it quite boring when it's always the same old people, like every single time.

I'm quite looking forward to the possibility of some actual unpredicatibility this season. :)

[steveaki13]

The point of a (road)car might be reliable transport, but the point of racing isn't. Racing involves stretching technology & humans to the limit. Isn't that what you've been asking for, for the last year or more DJ? When the odd car spins out, or blows the motor, it show us that they're at the limit. This makes it more exciting.
Approximately 10 years ago we had the Williams with the BMW motor pushing the revs to 17k, then 18k then 19k. We knew they were pushing the engineering as far as possible - going where no man/car has gone before. And we knew that there was a descent chance they'd fail to make it to the end because they were so far out on a limb. It was exciting to see them finish, but also to see them blowup because it confirmed they were at the edge.
The final race(s) of the season were the same way, with teams that were still in the running turning up the wick. They were willing to go the "Hero or Zero" route. Some would blow up or spin out, again confirming how close to the edge they were.
To me - that's more exciting to watch than everybody coming home safe and sound almost every time - no spins - no blowups - no stretching the limits of man, machine & engineering. When nobody retires, it feels more like riding the bus home from work.

Great Post Firstgear.

This explains it perfectly.

I too remember the 2000s BMW Williams. I remember 2001 in particular. They were mighty down the straights and were way faster than anyone else.

However the grunt mean't they retired from a load of races.

2001 was my favourite Williams for years.

Any race they didn't retire from they were mighty with one or two exceptions. Remember that came after 3 years of Williams midfield racing. Now the on edge technology of the BMW caused great excitement. It was challenging for wins while always thinking they might blow up. Great racing.

Australia 2001 - Montoya Failure

Brazil 2001. Montoya was on for a win but for Verstappen.

Imola 2001. Ralf was untouchable that day and romped away from DC, but every lap you thought he might retire.

Spain 2001. Montoya was 2nd albeit with some retirements ahead.

Austria 2001. Both cars retired, but not after running 1-2 early on. Montoya failure

Canada 2001. Again the Williams ran reliably and Ralf dominated the race.

Europe 2001. Again they both run up the sharp end.

France 2001. Mighty fast again, Montoya retired with an Engine Failure again

Britain 2001 - Ralf retired from Engine Failure

Germany 2001- Mighty 1-2 and Ralf dominated the race, while Montoya's engine exploded again.

Belgium 2001- Mighty Williams 1-2 in Quali, but Montoya retired with an engine failure again.

Italy 2001 - Montoya wins and Ralf 3rd.

USA 2001 - Montoya retired with engine issues.


Basically just proving what Firstgear said. The pushing of technology made the Williams fragile as you can see and thus made it exciting.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Now, if y'all done patting each other on the back, may I just point out that the Williams-BMW example is somewhat mute? Yes, we had Merc experimenting with Romulan alloys and BMW going bonkers on revs, but that all is mute in an age where everything is capped, including the revs.
Before we can get back to that, we first have to get rid of F1's current regime of restricting everything but the number of layers in the teams' bogrolls.

Back then, when BMW pushed the envelope their ultimate goal however was not to set new records on revs, but to get it reliably done. As I wrote before, like crazy rain races, the key is moderation. Unusual results due to high attrition will only be special, if they don't happen every other week. Then they'll become just annoying.

[jens]

All right, my 2 cent coins on the "needs" of reliability in F1.

Let's put it this way. On occasion it is good to have a race of attrition. Some of the legendary races in F1 were the likes of the European GP of 1999, where every leader dropped out and Herbert won.

However, as dj says, what makes them good is if they are an exception and not the norm. If you see 6 cars finishing every race, the field is pretty sparse in the end and not much action going on.

In addition - if there is a close title fight going on, from competition point of view it is good if they can fight it out till the end. Let's recall 1994 and 1997 - title protagonists were within 1 pt going into the final race and were racing close to each other on track. Of course they collided, but it would have been a bit of an anticlimax if one of them had blown up with an engine problem and another one would have cruised towards the title. Imagine Schumacher v Häkkinen at Suzuka 2000. What an anticlimax if one of them had blown up. However, that's what happened at Suzuka 2006.

The Williams-BMW of 2001 was pretty interesting though. I think if I think back to 2001-2002 it was good to have some unreliability up front, because top 3 teams were so clearly above others that sometimes others couldn't even compete for points if some of the frontrunners didn't hit trouble.

Ideally you'd like close competition speed-wise, but if it doesn't exist, you wish that some of the underdog teams can get results too, be it even at the expense of reliability if they don't have speed to compete for big results. Irvine on podium at Monaco 2001 and Monza 2002. Villeneuve at Hockenheim (2001). All results, which were down to front-runners hitting trouble with reliability issues, but it was good to see those results. A nice alternative.:)

[henners88]

Nobody here has said they want to see the same driver(s) breaking down every race.

As the engines are broken in and evolve we will see more reliability. I just commented that I am looking forward to the early glitches as I feel it will make the races unpredictable and exciting. Exploding cars and hating drivers were just exaggerated versions of the points being put across. We are all entitled to our own opinions and with that comes civil sensible discussion from me. :)

[easy rider]

I would have thought with the introduction of the new V6 turbo powered engines, that the teams would have still been allowed to keep the current 8 engine rule per season in place, instead of 5 engines for 2014. The 2014 season could be a record year for a 10 place grid drop, because of engine failures.

[Bagwan]

I would have thought with the introduction of the new V6 turbo powered engines, that the teams would have still been allowed to keep the current 8 engine rule per season in place, instead of 5 engines for 2014. The 2014 season could be a record year for a 10 place grid drop, because of engine failures.

That might turn out to be 4 engines for the season , and a freshie for the final , double pointer .

You're right . Allowing the current 8 power units for the year might have been a little kinder .
I guess it's something , though , that could easily be amended , without much consequence .

But , would folks then cry out that changing it now would be favouring the Renault powered teams , especially Red Bull , who have been struggling ?
Would the FIA care ?

I say yes , and no .

[easy rider]

Bagwan....I know that if a certain driver from Stevenage, who currently drives for Mercedes, gets one of those 10 place grid drop penalties....I'll be highly pissed.

[Bagwan]

He , who shall not be named , will be incurring the same wrath that all those front runners will be suffering .
I doubt he'll suffer more than the others .
It's just likely to be a case of when to give up on the points you're chasing , to save the motor .

It may be the second chance for the backmarkers , though , as after the initial carnage of the first few laps they are normally in their own race .
Now , perhaps strategically turning down the revs might save them that freshie for specific moments , like that last race .
Or , perhaps it's the second last one , because all the rest are saving for the big finale .

It certainly tosses in another element of stress for the designers , not to mention the strategists .

If the nameless guy gets burned , you'll be pissed , but you'll have your moment of sadness balanced by his main rivals suffering the same at other times .

[easy rider]

If the nameless guy gets burned , you'll be pissed , but you'll have your moment of sadness balanced by his main rivals suffering the same at other times .

:D

[Tazio]

I would have thought with the introduction of the new V6 turbo powered engines, that the teams would have still been allowed to keep the current 8 engine rule per season in place, instead of 5 engines for 2014. The 2014 season could be a record year for a 10 place grid drop, because of engine failures.
If I understand the rules correctly (and I'm not sure I do) a complete new engine after the 5th will cost you starting from pit lane in 2014
Article 28.4 c
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... 9/fia.html (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8689/fia.html)

[dj_bytedisaster]

[quote="easy rider":1p84ta6r]I would have thought with the introduction of the new V6 turbo powered engines, that the teams would have still been allowed to keep the current 8 engine rule per season in place, instead of 5 engines for 2014. The 2014 season could be a record year for a 10 place grid drop, because of engine failures.
If I understand the rules correctly (and I'm not sure I do) a complete new engine after the 5th will cost you starting from pit lane in 2014
Article 28.4 c
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... 9/fia.html (http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8689/fia.html)[/quote:1p84ta6r]

That'll be one crowded pit lane from Monaco onwards :|

[Mia 01]

I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.

The renualt powered teams will come good I think dispite manys whishes.

Many engines, MUG-H, MUG-k, batteries and turbos will go kaaaboom during the season.

[henners88]

I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.

The renualt powered teams will come good I think dispite manys whishes.

Many engines, MUG-H, MUG-k, batteries and turbos will go kaaaboom during the season.
Let's hope 'for your sake' Mia, Lewis had an appalling season and eventually gets sent to jail.

[Tazio]

I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.

The renualt powered teams will come good I think dispite manys whishes.

Many engines, MUG-H, MUG-k, batteries and turbos will go kaaaboom during the season.
Let's hope 'for your sake' Mia, Lewis had an appalling season and eventually gets sent to jail.
No No No, gets sent to hell! :devil: The Boss! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p07qZdjgZ3U


That'll be one crowded pit lane from Monaco onwards
We could see our frst pile up at the start of the race on pit lane :p:

[Tazio]

I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.


You are not the only one.

Feb.7 (GMM/Inautonews.com) Mercedes is being touted as the early 2014 favourite, but Ferrari is reportedly also ahead of the game as F1?s new V6 era dawns.

The German-language Speed Week reports that, when Ferrari-powered cars decelerated at the recent Jerez test, they sounded “very different” to their Mercedes and Renault-equipped counterparts.

Rumours in Italy say engine designer Luca Marmorini has devised an unique system that stops the flow of fuel when the driver is not accelerating, improving not only fuel consumption but also the effect of engine-braking.
http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race- ... ng-reports (http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race-ahead-with-consumption-cooling-reports)
:stareup: :dork: :sailor: ;)

[Mia 01]

Thanks for the link Mr Alca. This could be one of the reasons why Bernie tipps Nico to be WDC this year, he knows how to drive fast and lean!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Thanks for the link Mr Alca. This could be one of the reasons why Bernie tipps Nico to be WDC this year, he knows how to drive fast and lean!

I'm not a gambling man, but if I was, my money would be on Nico. Lewis is a natural born racer, but he is woefully bad at pacing himself. Last year he toasted his tyres way earlier than Nico in most races, but more often than not managed to hold on by raw talent, even on shaven rubber. That's a luxury he won't have this year. If he uses too much fuel, his car will sputter to a halt and all the talent in the world will not get him out of that. That's why I think he'll have a hard time keeping up with Nico.

Ferrari's engine seems to be a real marvel. Have you seen the sidepods on the Sauber and especially the Marussia? They are ridiculously tiny, so Ferrari's air-water-air cooler for the turbo works a charm and the packaging of that thing gives origami enthusiasts a wet dream. So basically, Merc seems to be the most reliable and powerfull, Ferrari the most compact and lightest, while Renault's is just utter shit. Clear hierarchy, I'd say.

[rjbetty]

Ah so, this very good assessment I feel. I feel like smart@$$ because I go for Nico even before little man say so. Lewis have more talent but Nico smarter.

[Tazio]

Ok, hold on one dog-blasted second! :dog: I like Nico and would be very happy to see him overthrow prehensile digit man ;), but I think someone should put their signature where their opinion is. Although I think Nico has an excellent chance at the WDC, he will be beaten by The Boss....again, and I am willing to take a punt with a sig bet, any takers?

Here are some betting odds as they stand right now. It is a good time to take a punt on Britney if you are so inclined. :dork:

http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/We ... 0881625948 (http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?affiliate=odc10&cb=10881625948)

Click on "motorsports","F1" "WDC to win outright", and then "create coupon" to see odds.

[rjbetty]

Ok, hold on one dog-blasted second! :dog: I like Nico and would be very happy to see him overthrow prehensile digit man ;), but I think someone should put their signature where their opinion is. Although I think Nico has an excellent chance at the WDC, he will be beaten by The Boss....again, and I am willing to take a punt with a sig bet, any takers?

Here are some betting odds as they stand right now. It is a good time to take a punt on Britney if you are so inclined. :dork:

http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/We ... 0881625948 (http://www.bet365.com/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?affiliate=odc10&cb=10881625948)

Click on "motorsports","F1" "WDC to win outright", and then "create coupon" to see odds.


Hmmm, like dj I'm no gambling man, especially as like many people, no money to spare. But have been wondering whether I could take a punt on Nico strictly as a one-off. Feel he has a good chance as I think he get's better the better the car is.

What I want though is for boss to get the glory! :)

Ok I will bet you on Leo Doc, then whoever comes on top, I'll feel like a winner! :)

[Tazio]

Ok, but only if I can have cucumbers on mine when I win! :burp: :sailor:

[donKey jote]

you've been spending far too much time with Billy's missus :eek:

oh, you said on :dozey: :sailor:

[Tazio]

you've been spending far too much time with Billy's missus :eek:

oh, you said on :dozey: :sailor:
A ham sandwich with sliced cucumber reminds you of Billy's missus? :shock:
I thought you told me it was something like:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vlNCRVbr_Dk/TbEuXo9JKRI/AAAAAAAAAJM/45zEW3xiG9U/s1600/pasta%2Bsarde.JPG

[airshifter]

[quote="Mia 01":2lbcihj6]I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.


You are not the only one.

Feb.7 (GMM/Inautonews.com) Mercedes is being touted as the early 2014 favourite, but Ferrari is reportedly also ahead of the game as F1?s new V6 era dawns.

The German-language Speed Week reports that, when Ferrari-powered cars decelerated at the recent Jerez test, they sounded “very different” to their Mercedes and Renault-equipped counterparts.

Rumours in Italy say engine designer Luca Marmorini has devised an unique system that stops the flow of fuel when the driver is not accelerating, improving not only fuel consumption but also the effect of engine-braking.
http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race- ... ng-reports (http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race-ahead-with-consumption-cooling-reports)
:stareup: :dork: :sailor: ;)[/quote:2lbcihj6]

It would actually surprise me if this system was unique in any racing series where fuel consumption is a factor. Quite a few road cars use a deceleration fuel cut off simply to give them a higher MPG return. Maybe F1 cars are opening the throttle butterflies during this period, but I would think the transition back to on throttle might be something to overcome with servo motors or such rather than just pedal input if this was the case. In the case of turbo cars it would also seem that keeping exhaust flow higher would keep the turbo speed up more as well.

[Tazio]

^^Yes, I think that article refers specifically to F1, and what is unique about it is it's symbiosis with the gearbox, and mguk.
I read this on another forum:


I think that they may be taking it out of the complex rear brake by wire control loop. If they could put the mguk in place of the gearbox under braking, it could recover energy more efficiently. Engine speed would decrease according to the fixed ratio linking it to the mguk, and the mguk would apply both engine and rear wheel braking. This would eliminate the stepwise reduction of engine speed and overun that we are used to. Also might save fuel.

[SGWilko]

[quote="Mia 01":1jjiwu0y]I have a feeling the Mercedes engine consume a bit to much gasoline, could be wrong.


You are not the only one.

Feb.7 (GMM/Inautonews.com) Mercedes is being touted as the early 2014 favourite, but Ferrari is reportedly also ahead of the game as F1?s new V6 era dawns.

The German-language Speed Week reports that, when Ferrari-powered cars decelerated at the recent Jerez test, they sounded “very different” to their Mercedes and Renault-equipped counterparts.

Rumours in Italy say engine designer Luca Marmorini has devised an unique system that stops the flow of fuel when the driver is not accelerating, improving not only fuel consumption but also the effect of engine-braking.
http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race- ... ng-reports (http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-race-ahead-with-consumption-cooling-reports)
:stareup: :dork: :sailor: ;)

It would actually surprise me if this system was unique in any racing series where fuel consumption is a factor. Quite a few road cars use a deceleration fuel cut off simply to give them a higher MPG return. Maybe F1 cars are opening the throttle butterflies during this period, but I would think the transition back to on throttle might be something to overcome with servo motors or such rather than just pedal input if this was the case. In the case of turbo cars it would also seem that keeping exhaust flow higher would keep the turbo speed up more as well.[/quote:1jjiwu0y]

The fueling on the new for 2014 engines is, for the first time, direct injection. This is for the very reason that, when the engine is not being called for power, the injectors remain well and truly shut.

Every drop is sacred in 2014, just like a stereotypical Python sketch on Catholicism!!!

Also, the issue of keeping the turbo spinning is dealt with by use of the MGU-H motor, pre-spinning the turbo as required.....

[SGWilko]

you've been spending far too much time with Billy's missus :eek:

oh, you said on :dozey: :sailor:
A ham sandwich with sliced cucumber reminds you of Billy's missus? :shock:
I thought you told me it was something like:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vlNCRVbr_Dk/TbEuXo9JKRI/AAAAAAAAAJM/45zEW3xiG9U/s1600/pasta%2Bsarde.JPG

Could you not find a picture of a discarded badly packed doner kebab??????

[rjbetty]

you've been spending far too much time with Billy's missus :eek:

oh, you said on :dozey: :sailor:
A ham sandwich with sliced cucumber reminds you of Billy's missus? :shock:
I thought you told me it was something like:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vlNCRVbr_Dk/TbEuXo9JKRI/AAAAAAAAAJM/45zEW3xiG9U/s1600/pasta%2Bsarde.JPG

Could you not find a picture of a discarded badly packed doner kebab??????

I have no idea whether I think that meal looks really nice, or disguting... :erm:


(well it's not really a meal, unless you weigh about 25kilos...)

[steveaki13]

I know which way I'm leaning. :uhoh: