2014 Pre-Season Testing

[minardi]

Jerez | 28th January - 31st January

Red Bull – Unknown line-up
Mercedes – Hamilton (Tues), Rosberg (Wed), Hamilton (Thu), Rosberg (Fri)
Ferrari – Raikkonen (Tues/Wed), Alonso (Thu/Fri)
Lotus – Missing test
McLaren – Button (Tues/Wed), Magnussen (Thu/Fri)
Force India – Perez (Tues), Hulkenberg (Wed), Juncadella (Thu), TBC (Fri)
Sauber – Gutierrez (Tues/Wed), Sutil (Thu/Fri)
Toro Rosso – Vergne (Tue), Kyvat (Wed), Vergne (Thu), Kyvat (Fri)
Williams – Bottas (Tues/Wed), Massa (Thu/Fri)
Marussia – Unknown line-up
Caterham – Ericsson (Tues/Wed), Frijns (Thu), Kobayashi (Fri)


Notes:
Sauber will begin Jerez test with a roll-out version of the C33 without a number of performance parts, which will be introduced in Bahrain.[/*:m:3m7xdn2a]

Bahrain | 19th February - 22nd February
Schedule unknown

Bahrain | 27th February - 2nd March
Schedule unknown

[steveaki13]

Cheers for the Info.

Sad to see so little time in the first test being given to 3rd drivers or test pilots.

Lets hope some of them get some time in Bahrain.

[minardi]

No problem. Marussia and Red Bull have now confirmed their Jerez schedule (but can't edit my original post to add them).

Vettel on the Tue/Wed, with Ricciardo finishing the week on Thu/Fri.

Marussia have gone for alternating days, with Chilton on the Tue/Thu and Bianchi on Wed/Fri.

[minardi]

Autosport reporting that Marussia's debut at Jerez has been delayed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112307

[steveaki13]

Shame. Hope they can get some testing in.

[minardi]

After a few red flags this morning, Hamilton is the first one to go into the barriers, which was down to a car failure... possibly the front wing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfEHchMIcAAMqTC.jpg

[Tazio]

After a few red flags this morning, Hamilton is the first one to go into the barriers, which was down to a car failure... possibly the front wing.

Confirmed!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfEPBRPCIAA-VzF.jpg


11:59 AUTOSPORT's spotters on the ground confirm that it was a front wing failure Mercedes are referring to.

It shattered well before Turn 1 and left Hamilton a helpless passenger, in much the same way as Fernando Alonso's wing broke in Malaysia last year.

Hamilton was able to climb out the car and appeared unhurt.

[RS]

Surprised by the amount of teething problems and lack of running. I know there is a big change of rules but with rig and dyno testing plus some teams shaking down previously I thought there would be more running today. Williams and Caterham yet to even show their cars!

[Tazio]

Kimi starting to put in some decent times :cool: :angel:

[Tazio]

Red Bull off to an ominous start :eek: ;)

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
Follow
Red Bull not on track because a spring in rear suspension was not mounted correctly. Change takes time. AMuS story: http://ams.to/g9
4:49 AM - 28 Jan 2014

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gZ5yRtxLJw

Video of The Boss' shunt :stareup:

[RS]

Red Bull not on track because a spring in rear suspension was not mounted correctly. Change takes time. AMuS story: 4

Really? All day to change one spring?

[jens]

A remarkable day. For as long as I have followed winter testing sessions in my life, I can't remember a day, where very few could barely put in proper laps throughout the whole day. But that's how the first day went. Based on that alone could be an interesting start into the season!

[Storm]

McLaren could not even get their car running?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/25924834

[minardi]

I agree with jens – I can't remember a day like this either. Everyone was either not ready to run, or barely ready to go once round the block (if that!). 93 laps between all the teams is a laughable figure.

Mercedes looked most confident early on, and were knocking in the laps (in comparison to the rest) until the wing failed. Ferrari then caught up to where they were having the extra time in the afternoon.

[steveaki13]

Lap times
1 Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) 1:27.104

2 Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) 1:27.820

3 Valtteri Bottas (Williams) 1:30.082

4 Sergio Perez (Force India) 1:33.161

5 Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso) 1:36.530

I couldn't keep up with the action today as I was at work.

Are these the only 5 to set times of the 9.

[COD]

Maybe Lotus wa sright after all not to attend the first test?

[RS]

Maybe Lotus wa sright after all not to attend the first test?

That depends whether by waiting they will be more ready or whether they will be at this stage at the start of the second test. If it's the latter they could be in trouble.

I guess the teams will use this test to get the machines reliable enough so that they can actually start to test performance and set ups in the following tests.

[Tazio]

Maybe Lotus wa sright after all not to attend the first test?

Possibly, but IMO they are just delaying their teething period. As Paddy Lowe pointed out, they were ready to go partly because of the running they did at Silverstone


“It was going very well. We had the advantage of having been to Silverstone on Friday, so we were well placed to get out this morning right on time. We had a few issues which we hadn’t expected, but in general it was going well, we were building up to longer runs, and it was just at that point that we unfortunately had the failure. It was shaping up to be a very good day. And as it was we achieved a lot in the half day we ran.”. http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/01/28/merc ... g-failure/ (http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/01/28/mercedes-working-through-night-to-address-front-wing-failure/)

[Malbec]

I agree with jens – I can't remember a day like this either. Everyone was either not ready to run, or barely ready to go once round the block (if that!). 93 laps between all the teams is a laughable figure.

Frankly I'm surprised that more teams didn't try basic shakedowns at Silverstone or 'media' days before the tests because however complex these new cars are the limited testing period makes each day, each lap that much more valuable. I'd have thought they'd have done their best to ensure that the cars could at least turn a wheel before turning up.

Still, it will be interesting to see the reliability rates especially in the first few races. It could be like 2002 where no hopers like Minardi and Toyota threatened to or did score points purely because they were reliable and the cars in front of them all dropped off. Focussing on reliability at the cost of performance could actually make the difference for a team like Marussia or Caterham....

[jens]

It could be like 2002 where no hopers like Minardi and Toyota threatened to or did score points purely because they were reliable and the cars in front of them all dropped off. Focussing on reliability at the cost of performance could actually make the difference for a team like Marussia or Caterham....

The case of 2002 was helped by a mass-accident in Turn1 in Australia as well. In 2008 and 2009 at Melbourne there was also some attrition, but those races also had first lap accidents.

I don't know if we could get less than 10 cars getting the chequered flag on reliability issues alone, but combined with a first-corner pile-up it could happen.

I personally remember the beginning of 1999 as a period of unreliability. In the first four races the amount of finishers was: 8, 9, 9, 8. And only in Spain we finally had something more - 13. I remember thinking back then that how come all those high-tech teams can't design cars that even at least half of them would finish races.

However, it has been a long time since we had 10 or less cars finishing a race. Certainly it hasn't happened in the last four years, since the backmarkers are yet to score! Perhaps the same Australia '08 was indeed the last race with <10 finishers. Best ever chance for Marussia and Caterham to score points is about to come! But if they are still genuine backmarkers without threatening teams ahead on pace, their luxury of having a shot at points isn't going to last long - at best a few opening races.

[COD]

Maybe Lotus wa sright after all not to attend the first test?

Possibly, but IMO they are just delaying their teething period. As Paddy Lowe pointed out, they were ready to go partly because of the running they did at Silverstone



There is nothing preventing Lotus to do a similar "shakedown" before the next big thest, is there?

[Tazio]

Maybe Lotus wa sright after all not to attend the first test?

Possibly, but IMO they are just delaying their teething period. As Paddy Lowe pointed out, they were ready to go partly because of the running they did at Silverstone



There is nothing preventing Lotus to do a similar "shakedown" before the next big thest, is there?

No not at all. I was making two separate points 1: Mercedes was ahead of the game right out of the box today in Paddy Lowe's words because of having already had a partial test day on Friday. 2: Lotus has to start some time, and when they do they will need to get the bugs out of the system just as the other teams are doing. They can have a media day before the next tests but they cannot get these tests days back in their entirety AFAIK.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tazio]

Also, I'm sure Lotus has sound reasons for not participating this week, but the fact that most other teams struggled the first day isn't one of them in my way of thinking. I do hope they represent themselves well in 2014 :)

[Mia 01]

I hope Kimi tops today with most laps and fastest time again.

Forca Ferrari!

[minardi]

Found this on YouTube this morning, with the sounds and sights of the new cars plodding their way round the track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s99QFe6htJ4#t=47

Also, due to the damp track this morning thanks to rain overnight, they've decided to switch the wet testing day from Friday to today and so have wetted the track more. Sadly, I'm expecting a lot of nothing again today. It can't be ideal to get the first lot of mileage of a new car they don't understand on a wet track.

[steveaki13]

A lot of cars straight out on the damp track apparently. Wonder if there will be many reliability issues today?

[RS]

A lot more laps completed already today, although some way short of a "normal" test day. Lap times are also a long way off past years, although I guess they haven't even thought about performance yet.

[minardi]

Eight laps completed by Red Bull today, and their day is cut short again. Seems the Renault powered cars are having a lot of problems which is restricting their running.

[RS]

Positively for them, especially after yesterday, McLaren have completed the most laps so far today and are top of the timesheets.

[steveaki13]

Sergio Perez Turbo appears to have overheated. His Car stopped with smoke coming from the back.

[Tazio]

Eight laps completed by Red Bull today, and their day is cut short again. Seems the Renault powered cars are having a lot of problems which is restricting their running.

The team elected to abandon its running for the day so Renault could be given more time to look into the problem and sort a solution for Thursday.

Vettel has cancelled his media commitments for Wednesday evening and flown home.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112342
:sailor:

[Tazio]

Forca Ferrari!
Welcome aboard mate :kiss: ;)
Iceman doing great work for the Scuderia, and I expect Fred Redman to compliment Kimi's work on Thurs, and Fri.
This is going to be a dynamic pairing
May the Forza be with both of them. :vader: :dork:

[COD]

Renault F1 engine starting to resemble more and more their road cars :)

[rjbetty]

Well I for one think this has all been very interesting so far. :)

@Doc That link about Vettel was funny. When Seb starts failing to be as sunny, it's a good sign that all may not be well. This is making the anticipation for the season more exciting I think.

I have to say after two days, I feel I actually have much less idea of how things are going to go than before the test.

[Tazio]

Well I for one think this has all been very interesting so far. :)

@Doc That link about Vettel was funny. When Seb starts failing to be as sunny, it's a good sign that all may not be well. This is making the anticipation for the season more exciting I think.

I have to say after two days, I feel I actually have much less idea of how things are going to go than before the test.
Ha Ha! I'm thinking Seb's perambulator may have somehow lost a little ballast :stareup:

[henners88]

Wow I know much of the laps were slow speed but I'm amazed how disappointing the engines sound. Odd, I didn't expect there to be that much difference.

[Tazio]

Found this on YouTube this morning, with the sounds and sights of the new cars plodding their way round the track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s99QFe6htJ4#t=47

Also, due to the damp track this morning thanks to rain overnight, they've decided to switch the wet testing day from Friday to today and so have wetted the track more. Sadly, I'm expecting a lot of nothing again today. It can't be ideal to get the first lot of mileage of a new car they don't understand on a wet track.
Nice Freakin’ vid bro :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well I for one think this has all been very interesting so far. :)

@Doc That link about Vettel was funny. When Seb starts failing to be as sunny, it's a good sign that all may not be well. This is making the anticipation for the season more exciting I think.

I have to say after two days, I feel I actually have much less idea of how things are going to go than before the test.
Ha Ha! I'm thinking Seb's perambulator may have somehow lost a little ballast :stareup:

Interesting how people hope for Renault to mess up. All of Vettel's four championships were rubbished as "it's all the car" and now people hope that the RB will be crap so Fernando, Kimi or Lewis can win because of having a car advantage. Double standard much?
Car differences will always be there, but I think it is a bit lacking in class to wish problems on someone, because the best racing will be had if people can fight it out, not if one brings a knife to a gun fight.

[henners88]

[quote=rjbetty]Well I for one think this has all been very interesting so far. :)

@Doc That link about Vettel was funny. When Seb starts failing to be as sunny, it's a good sign that all may not be well. This is making the anticipation for the season more exciting I think.

I have to say after two days, I feel I actually have much less idea of how things are going to go than before the test.
Ha Ha! I'm thinking Seb's perambulator may have somehow lost a little ballast :stareup:

Interesting how people hope for Renault to mess up. All of Vettel's four championships were rubbished as "it's all the car" and now people hope that the RB will be crap so Fernando, Kimi or Lewis can win because of having a car advantage. Double standard much?
Car differences will always be there, but I think it is a bit lacking in class to wish problems on someone, because the best racing will be had if people can fight it out, not if one brings a knife to a gun fight.[/quote:389xgphy]
I have to say I do hope Red Bull are not as competitive this year and that is not lacking class IMO. Whether Vettel is at the front or not, we'll still have decent drivers racing at the front. I hope McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari are in the fight this year as they all have drivers capable of winning the championship with them being World Champions. If Vettel doesn't feature this year, the quality will not suffer completely because there are guys just as talented who may also have a chance of winning. That's the way the sport goes and lets face it, we've had 5 or more years of very talented guys not getting a look in because their teams have not produced the goods. Vettel has had it very good and from a spectators perspective, myself and many others would like to see a bit of change this year. If the changes mean all the top guys are competitive and we see some honest racing, then I am for that as well. No sour grapes but masses of class here. :)

[RS]

Anyone been watching the testing round ups and Ted's notebook on Sky?

I don't know if it is just the footage they have recorded, but everyone looks like they are on an in-lap/out-lap at the moment. I think they are just struggling to get their cars working, nevermind for a full race distance or even thinking about performance or set up yet. They'll do well to be able to do that before Melbourne, especially the Renault teams who have hardly done any running yet.

I think the cars sound quite "nice" although not as loud or exciting as before; but I do think it was time for a change. It's right that F1 should be pushing the boundaries of technology and moving with the times. The piece they did with the Renault guy last night was quite interesting.

[Tazio]

I agree with your post RS, although I read that Kimi did try several different setups yesterday.
Alonso is off to a cracking start today :

09:06 Alonso brings that seven-lap stint to a close. He lowered the benchmark several times, eventually getting down to a 1m26.321s.

[minardi]

Ricciardo makes his debut in the RB10… a minute later he's stopped and it's smoking.

Renault have big issues at the moment. At this rate, Lotus missing the first test isn't quite as bad as it could have been. Even if they'd have showed up, it's unlikely they'd have got much running in anyway.

[RS]

At this rate, Lotus missing the first test isn't quite as bad as it could have been. Even if they'd have showed up, it's unlikely they'd have got much running in anyway.

Yes, maybe they knew what was coming.

There is a couple of weeks break until the next test after this one which will give Renault a breather to hopefully sort out their problems.

The Renault problems seem to be affecting Red Bull more than the other Renault teams though, Torro Rosso have done 22 laps today (although 20s off the pace)

[minardi]

The Renault problems seem to be affecting Red Bull more than the other Renault teams though, Torro Rosso have done 22 laps today (although 20s off the pace)

Spot on. From Autosport...

Our technical expert GARY ANDERSON analysed Red Bull's situation after Daniel Ricciardo's truncated debut earlier today, and revealed there are paddock whispers about Renault raising eyebrows at Red Bull's electronics installation:

[Tazio]

The Renault problems seem to be affecting Red Bull more than the other Renault teams
Or is it the other way around?

AUTOSPORT's F1 technical expert Gary Anderson looks at the problems the world champion squad is having.

The reason for the stoppage hasn't yet emerged, but this is worrying for Red Bull given that the new RB10 has managed a grand total of 11 complete laps in two-and-a-half days.

The technical rumour mill in the paddock suggests that Renault is less than pleased with Red Bull's installation of the control electronics in its 2014 car.
It is starting to appear that they have both cocked up.


Tobias Grüner F1 ?@tgruener 38 Sek. Helmut Marko: "The latest problem has nothing to do with the power unit. It's in our own responsibility.".
:grenade:

[SGWilko]

Is this the year Adrian Newey shoots his team in the foot again - like he did that year when at McLaren where they had to design and build a new car at the start of the season?

[steveaki13]

Its looking bad at the moment for Red Bull, but I would still be cautious about writing them off. Remember was it 2012 and the first half of the championship was average, before coming strong and winning the title.

Also this is what Pre Season is for, its a long way from doom. By the time the season roles round they could be in great shape.

[Tazio]

Is this the year Adrian Newey shoots his team in the foot again - like he did that year when at McLaren where they had to design and build a new car at the start of the season?
One can always hope! :devil:

[SGWilko]

Its looking bad at the moment for Red Bull, but I would still be cautious about writing them off. Remember was it 2012 and the first half of the championship was average, before coming strong and winning the title.

Also this is what Pre Season is for, its a long way from doom. By the time the season roles round they could be in great shape.

Point is, there is so much to learn. Cooling v aero trade off - you cant run optimal aero until you know your cooling needs when running the car at full chat using all the motors etc that all create heat. The Red Bull cannot even complete a slow lap, let alone run reliably. This puts everything back!

Then, they need to work on strategy, working out how much you can lean on the ers (H & K) to eek out maximum mpg against best laptime.

Still, it's still early doors, but its quite ominous, init tho????

[Tazio]

Well yes it is Wilko. ;)
Red Bull is done for the day Ted Kravits is saying:

Lots of drilling in RB pit. Seems turbo and battery control unit packaging is too tight, not a Renault prob pic.twitter.com/oP9HK0OZX4
Surely Red Bull will get this sorted out in time for the first race, but I want to see C. Horner squirm for a while, the longer the better :angel:

[minardi]

Well yes it is Wilko. ;)
Red Bull is done for the day Ted Kravits is saying:

Lots of drilling in RB pit. Seems turbo and battery control unit packaging is too tight, not a Renault prob pic.twitter.com/oP9HK0OZX4
Surely Red Bull will get this sorted out in time for the first race, but I want to see C. Horner squirm for a while, the longer the better :angel:

He's decided not to squirm in public today as he and Adrian Newey have left the circuit. All is not well at the Red Bull camp.

[SGWilko]

Well yes it is Wilko. ;)
Red Bull is done for the day Ted Kravits is saying:

Lots of drilling in RB pit. Seems turbo and battery control unit packaging is too tight, not a Renault prob pic.twitter.com/oP9HK0OZX4
Surely Red Bull will get this sorted out in time for the first race, but I want to see C. Horner squirm for a while, the longer the better :angel:

C 'est tres interressant! Can't wait for Ted's testing notebook tonight!!!

[SGWilko]

And still, the Red Bull could turn out to be an unreliable 1991 Ferrari (truck)! Surely, they would not compromise on cooling for speed would they? Don't they learn anything????

It's definitely a Whack Whack Ooops from Newey.

[Tazio]

The Boss puts in a 123.9 FWIW. Mercedes seems to be on top of things here, and I think they are going to be tough this season!

[SGWilko]

A Hamilton, Rosberg, Kimi, Fred & Button title fight in prospect? :)

[SGWilko]

Ted Kravitz has been discussing Red Bull’s problems on Sky Sports News:

“It has been another dreadful day for Red Bull and it couldn’t have come at a worse time because the Red Bull co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz has turned up as has Helmut Marko and they are here to witness the continuation of a poor test. They have only had a few laps, no real running, no real learning about the new car, persistent overheating problems. Some indication as to whether those problems are down to the over aggressive packaging of Adrian Newey on this car or whether it is actually a problem with what Renault have supplied them is not working with their packing – that is going to be an argument that is down to fine details and it doesn’t really mate because what it means is that Red Bull, the reigning World Champions, have not been able to use the first test in any meaningful way and that is going to put them on the back foot for their season preparations.

“The old dentist drill is going on in garage 22, so they are working on the car and seeing if they can change it and change the bodywork and make it work because they have this track time available. A day extra spent working here or an extra day in the factory in Milton Keynes probably won’t make that much of a difference. There are two weeks between the end of this test and the beginning of the Bahrain test and that will probably shrink to a week and a half because they have to fly the car out to Bahrain. So I don’t think they would be better served calling it a day right now and you never know they might achieve some good things with the dentist drill and at least get the car to run five laps, ten laps, something like this. But we believe they are not going to run for the rest of the day – Day Three in Jerez and still no meaningful running for Red Bull. We will see if the drilling gets them anywhere tomorrow.”

As for whether it is a Red Bull or a Renault problem:

“It is a problem for them both, but it is a bigger problem for Red Bull as it is their job to take all the elements from Renault, the battery, the battery control system, the transformer and then the energy recovery systems and package it in a way that it isn’t going to overheat. I think ultimately it is Red Bull’s fault – they get all the equipment in from a supplier and it is their job to make it work together and they haven’t.”

Ouch!

[Tazio]

Who knows? You know Seb is going to be up there. As for "Jense" I think he will have his hands full with Magnusson. The battle between Fred and Kimi is going to be epic, and I really hope it is at/near the top, but it is way too early to say. I'm just going to stay in my bubble enjoying almighty Red Bull do their Alphonse-Gaston routine :p:

[steveaki13]

I think its been fun to see everyone struggling a bit. I had the feeling over the last few years that F1 has been a bit stale and samey, but these regs seem to have put a real question mark in everyone's mind.

Fun times ahead hopefully.

P.S I enjoy seeing Red Bull struggle as much as you guys that was one team that appeared to be getting too big for its boots, but I still fear they will be mighty come the end of the season.

[steveaki13]

Anyone have any pics or extra information about Slashes Crash?

He brought the Red flag out earlier , it then got taken in and the Toro Rosso brings it out once again after grinding to a halt.

[RS]

Vergne has put quite a few laps on the Toro Rosso today though and is 'only' 6 seconds off the pace now.

[i_max2k2]

At the end of Day 3,

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 1m23.276s 52
2. Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes 1m23.700s +0.424s 47
3. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m23.952s +0.676s 62
4. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m25.030s +1.754s 40
5. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m25.495s +2.219s 58
6. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m26.096s +2.820s 17
7. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault 1m29.915s +6.639s 30
8. Adrian Sutil Sauber-Ferrari 1m30.161s +6.885s 34
9. Robin Frijns Caterham-Renault No time - 10
10. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault No time - 3
11. Max Chilton Marussia-Ferrari No time - 5

Mercedes is looking good, and I'm happy for RB, even if its a bit unsporting, but I'd love to see Vettel in sort of a Ferrari 2005 situation, and see how good he really is.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Mercedes is looking good, and I'm happy for RB, even if its a bit unsporting, but I'd love to see Vettel in sort of a Ferrari 2005 situation, and see how good he really is.

The 2005 Ferrari didn't have an engine that the manufacturer limited to 250km, less than the distance of the shortes GP of the year (Monaco), so that comparison is a wee bit flawed. Word is that Renault needs at least 20 weeks to sort the thing out, which I would say is catastrophic news for Fake!Lotus and Caterham.-

[TheFamousEccles]

Sound like V6's to me.

I can't imagine RBR fielding a POS, I would imagine regular transmission will soon be resumed. :burp:

[RS]

Sound like V6's to me.

I can't imagine RBR fielding a POS, I would imagine regular transmission will soon be resumed. :burp:

Yeah, the moment Vettel gets a clear lap in he will probably go 2s quicker than everyone else :rolleyes:

I am really surprised Red Bull got it so wrong though. Ok, they are normally tight on packaging but to have stuff running so hot it can't even complete a few laps is amazing.

Ricciardo has just completed a lap this morning though! A better day for Renault?

[jens]

I am really surprised Red Bull got it so wrong though. Ok, they are normally tight on packaging but to have stuff running so hot it can't even complete a few laps is amazing.


Red Bull's packaging may be tight (when it hasn't been the case with Newey?), but since all Renault-engined cars seem to be in trouble, there is clearly a bigger issue going on with Renault powerplants.

Personally I believe Red Bull's aerodynamics and chassis in general is top-notch, so if they have a bad season, it will be down to the engine. Like Ferrari's 2005 was largely attributed to Bridgestone tyres, as in 2006, when they got 'competitive' tyres, Ferrari was up there again.

[RS]

Interesting comments from Sutil:

"It's so different and you can feel it in every gear. It's not about using all the rev band anymore. The torque is in the middle of the rev band so you can sometimes shift a bit earlier, or use different gears in a corner, it doesn't really make a difference.

"So the engine is a lot more powerful in the rev band than the V8. The V8 was more operating between 15 and 18,000rpm so you always had to keep the revs up.

"Also we have eight gears, so you never run into a limiter at the end of the straight, you can go at almost 400km/h with these gears so it's very different, a massive change in every direction."

[RS]

Red Bull have packed up and gone home.

Renault have problems, but it is affecting Red Bull and Toro Rosso the most it seems as Caterham have done 45 laps today.

[Tazio]

Yes RS it has been suggested that Caterham's battery and engine components are more loosely packaged allowing sufficient cooling.

[Malbec]

Red Bull's packaging may be tight (when it hasn't been the case with Newey?), but since all Renault-engined cars seem to be in trouble, there is clearly a bigger issue going on with Renault powerplants.

Personally I believe Red Bull's aerodynamics and chassis in general is top-notch, so if they have a bad season, it will be down to the engine. Like Ferrari's 2005 was largely attributed to Bridgestone tyres, as in 2006, when they got 'competitive' tyres, Ferrari was up there again.

I don't think you can simplify things like that and blame Renault. Today one Renault powered team has done more laps than every Renault powered car in the whole week up till now and there isn't a single red bovine on the car.

All the teams were provided information about the packaging and cooling needs of the powertrain and only one has used the information sufficiently well to allow its car to run, but the fact that one team has got it right indicates that the powertrain itself is not the sole issue.

It also sounds like RBR in particular left the development and construction of the current car very late indeed which compounded the problems, I think a large chunk of the blame has to be laid at Milton Keynes' door.

I'm sure if/when the RBR runs it will be very quick indeed but Newey has always sacrificed reliability for speed with extremely tight packaging that puts an extra strain on components. Putting KERS next to the gearbox in previous years may have helped aero packaging but it hurt reliability badly, just ask Webber... Thats the risk you run by pushing the envelope so far isn't it?

[steveaki13]

Caterham have shut down for the day as well. Still they have done some decent running compared to Red Bull

[SGWilko]

Red Bull's packaging may be tight (when it hasn't been the case with Newey?), but since all Renault-engined cars seem to be in trouble, there is clearly a bigger issue going on with Renault powerplants.

Personally I believe Red Bull's aerodynamics and chassis in general is top-notch, so if they have a bad season, it will be down to the engine. Like Ferrari's 2005 was largely attributed to Bridgestone tyres, as in 2006, when they got 'competitive' tyres, Ferrari was up there again.

I don't think you can simplify things like that and blame Renault. Today one Renault powered team has done more laps than every Renault powered car in the whole week up till now and there isn't a single red bovine on the car.

All the teams were provided information about the packaging and cooling needs of the powertrain and only one has used the information sufficiently well to allow its car to run, but the fact that one team has got it right indicates that the powertrain itself is not the sole issue.

It also sounds like RBR in particular left the development and construction of the current car very late indeed which compounded the problems, I think a large chunk of the blame has to be laid at Milton Keynes' door.

I'm sure if/when the RBR runs it will be very quick indeed but Newey has always sacrificed reliability for speed with extremely tight packaging that puts an extra strain on components. Putting KERS next to the gearbox in previous years may have helped aero packaging but it hurt reliability badly, just ask Webber... Thats the risk you run by pushing the envelope so far isn't it?

Ted's second notebook for the first test featured a Q&A with Renault - they had some advisories on turbo 'knocking' that can destroy the engine. Looking at the time sheets, it is very clear that the Renault wick is turned lower that a tarts knickers! ;)

[i_max2k2]

[quote="i_max2k2":2za6e0eb]
Mercedes is looking good, and I'm happy for RB, even if its a bit unsporting, but I'd love to see Vettel in sort of a Ferrari 2005 situation, and see how good he really is.

The 2005 Ferrari didn't have an engine that the manufacturer limited to 250km, less than the distance of the shortes GP of the year (Monaco), so that comparison is a wee bit flawed. Word is that Renault needs at least 20 weeks to sort the thing out, which I would say is catastrophic news for Fake!Lotus and Caterham.-[/quote:2za6e0eb]

No its not flawed really, it was one component of the car that caused a lot of issues. The point really was if Red Bull do end up having a poor car and it does finish races, we'll get to see how well Seb can push the car by himself.

[jens]

I don't think you can simplify things like that and blame Renault. Today one Renault powered team has done more laps than every Renault powered car in the whole week up till now and there isn't a single red bovine on the car.

All the teams were provided information about the packaging and cooling needs of the powertrain and only one has used the information sufficiently well to allow its car to run, but the fact that one team has got it right indicates that the powertrain itself is not the sole issue.

It also sounds like RBR in particular left the development and construction of the current car very late indeed which compounded the problems, I think a large chunk of the blame has to be laid at Milton Keynes' door.

I'm sure if/when the RBR runs it will be very quick indeed but Newey has always sacrificed reliability for speed with extremely tight packaging that puts an extra strain on components. Putting KERS next to the gearbox in previous years may have helped aero packaging but it hurt reliability badly, just ask Webber... Thats the risk you run by pushing the envelope so far isn't it?

Caterham was running with engine well down on power and the way they have designed the car, it looks like it is most conservative design with huge sidepods, etc. It could enable them to be a bit more reliable, but on the other hand not much speed can be expected from that.

Anyway, yes, how the engine exactly works in a car, depends on the characteristics in each car itself, but generally Renault has more problems than other engines. Four Mercedes-powered teams were all at the sharp end of timesheets and racked up lots of laps, while Renault-teams were nowhere and Lotus wasn't even there - perhaps they knew that the engine was problematic and their package wasn't ready for the test? I think that's the real reason.

Coincidence? Don't think so. I think Renault is currently behind on reliability stakes and I very much doubt any of the Mercedes teams would like to switch their powerplant for the Renault one.

[DazzlaF1]

LAPS COMPLETED
DRIVERS

1. Nico ROSBERG ........ 188
2. Fernando ALONSO ........ 173
3. Kevin MAGNUSSEN ........ 161
4. Felipe MASSA ........ 133
5. Lewis HAMILTON ........ 111
6. Adrian SUTIL ........ 103
7. Daniel JUNCADELLA ........ 81 *
8. Kimi RAIKKONEN ......... 78
9. Esteban GUTIERREZ ........ 60
10. Kamui KOBAYASHI ........ 54
----------------------------------------------
18. Sebastian VETTEL ........ 11

TEAMS

1. Mercedes ........ 299
2. Ferrari ........ 251
3. McLaren ........ 201
4. Williams ........ 175
5. Sauber ........ 163
6. Force India ........ 146
7. Caterham ........ 76
8. Toro Rosso ........ 53
9. Marussia ........ 30
10. Red Bull ........ 21

ENGINES

1. Mercedes ........ 821
2. Ferrari ........ 444
3. Renault ........ 150

[rjbetty]

Om another note, I read that TJ13 link dj posted.

In it, the writer said he was standing around turn 5(?) when Gutierrez went off. Shortly after, a car pulled up and ol' one ear* was driving, then ol' one eye* hopped out and snapped a load of pictures of the Sauber's rear.


*with thanks to Doc/Taz :sailor:

[RS]

A good time today by Bianchi in the Marussia, only 4s off the pace despite it only running a day and a half at this test.

[dj_bytedisaster]

No its not flawed really, it was one component of the car that caused a lot of issues. The point really was if Red Bull do end up having a poor car and it does finish races, we'll get to see how well Seb can push the car by himself.

The word 'push' will most likely be gone from most people's vocabulary by the third race. This is from today's interview with Nico Rosberg.



The driveability with the turbo is still a bit of an adventure. It will take some time until we have it in a good range. When I took to the car on day 2 I could run many, seemingly problem free kilometers, but in reality it was a constant struggle. We couldn't get heat into the tyres and we barely managed GP2 pace.
I would like to go faster than last year, but that's not going to happen. That's the downside of 2014. The strategy will play a much bigger role with the new rules, but we're not luxury passengers in the cars.
If the team radio fails, it will not be good. It's almost science to work out, when to overtake and when to conserve fuels, so that you make it to the end.


source : Motorsport Total (http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news/2014/01/rosberg-erwartet-formel-1-schach-14013111.html) (German)

[DazzlaF1]

A good time today by Bianchi in the Marussia, only 4s off the pace despite it only running a day and a half at this test.

8 seconds off the fastest time of the week despite doing just 25 laps in 2 days on a track with changeable conditions, that is extremely promising

[steveaki13]

I like that info about Marussia's times. They had a pretty tough start, but hopefully some reasons to be cheerful for the team.

[truefan72]

I think people are overreacting concerning the Renault engine.
Last I checked they have won the WDC and WCC 4 years straight and between RBR and Lotus and Williams in the past few years have produced very reliable and competitive engines. Plus they have a history with turbo power plants and the likes compared to say Mercedes. If there is fault to be assigned, it will have to go down to the teams IMO. plus these are early days and if I were to speculate on Lotus, the engine is probably not the problem.

Caterham were always going to produce a conservative car and STR and RBR are probably closer in design than most suspect. At least from a fundamental platform. Given that they are owned by the seam folks and are both running the same engine package.

Its also early days, so lets see what happens by the time we get to Australia. Of course I hope that RBR are pegged down a notch and that their issues are down to the tight packaging and not the engine.

[big_sw2000]

Difference between sound of last year, and this year from testing.
I quite like the v6, just wish it was a little more revvey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw ... ata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw2QjA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Steve

[steveaki13]

Reminds me of 80s & 90s sounds. I don't think generally its too bad.

[RS]

Difference between sound of last year, and this year from testing.
I quite like the v6, just wish it was a little more revvey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw ... ata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw2QjA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Steve

Good video.

Not only is the rev limit lower with the 1.6 engines but because of the way the power is delivered they can shift earlier so don't need the whole rev range. They sound "nice" to me, but even if they are going as fast they won't give the same impression of speed because they will "sound" slower.

Interesting that even when the Torro Rosso was running it sounded rough and the gearchanges were very slow.

[truefan72]

Difference between sound of last year, and this year from testing.
I quite like the v6, just wish it was a little more revvey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw ... ata_player (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9OYmVw2QjA&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Steve

the new sound will take a bit of getting used
those 2013's sounded sweet!

[Triumph]

Having watched the various videos on YouTube I think the new V6s sound great. The cars look interesting too. I'm really pleased so far. Looking forward to the racing!

[steveaki13]

I agree about the V6 sounds. I know its different, but I like it.

It does remind me of the late 80s and early 90s sounds, despite differing engine types.

[zako85]

So far, what can we say about 2014 tires?

[henners88]

I think the sound is crap. Thankfully this doesn't translate too much on TV so if the racing improves, we'll forget all about it. Fuel loads are a concern and if we have tyres with degradation on top of that, we could have a worrying pattern for conservative races. I hope I am wrong.

[Valve Bounce]

It hasn't taken Riciardo to discover his car is blessed with a kaput device. Just wait till he gets on the grid. He will discover the joys of being passed by heaps of cars after the red lights go off, then missing tyres at pit stops, and loose wheel nuts. You think he can win a race this year? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[minardi]

Testing is back. Lotus are back. Possible sweaty backs.

Driver line-up for the teams
Red Bull: Sebastian Vettel (Wed/Thurs); Daniel Ricciardo (Fri/Sat)
Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton (Wed/Fri); Nico Rosberg (Thurs/Sat)
Ferrari: Fernando Alonso (Wed/Thurs); Kimi Raikkonen (Fri/Sat)
Lotus: Romain Grosjean (Wed/Thurs) Pastor Maldonado (Fri/Sat)
McLaren: Kevin Magnussen (Wed/Thurs); Jenson Button (Fri/Sat)
Force India: Nico Hulkenberg (Wed/Thurs); Sergio Perez (Fri/Sat)
Toro Rosso: Daniil Kvyat (Wed/Fri); Jean-Eric Vergne (Thurs/Sat)
Marussia: Jules Bianchi (Wed/Fri); Max Chilton (Thurs/Sat)
Caterham: Robin Frijns (Wed); Kamui Kobayashi (Thurs/Sat); Marcus Ericsson (Fri)
Sauber: Adrian Sutil (Wed/Sat; Esteban Gutierrez (Thurs/Fri)
Williams: Felipe Massa (Wed); Other days TBC

[RS]

No laps for Red Bull or Torro Rosso yet...

Still think the McLaren looks really good; the cars with the smooth transitions on the noses, penis or not, look best IMO (like the Sauber and McLaren)

http://gpupdate2.ed5.nl/large/237599.jpg

[Ranger]

I wonder how McLaren feels about moving to Honda engines next year?

Mercedes have nailed the transition to turbo engines.

Testing times so far:



P Driver Team Time
1 Hulkenberg Force India 1m36.880s
2 Hamilton Mercedes 1m37.908s +1.028
3 Magnussen McLaren 1m38.295s +1.415
4 Alonso Ferrari 1m39.628s +2.748
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m40.224s +3.344
6 Sutil Sauber 1m40.443s +3.563
7 Frijns Caterham 1m42.900s +6.020
8 Kvyat Toro Rosso 1m44.346s +7.466
9 Grosjean Lotus 1m44.832s +7.952

[AndyL]

I wonder how McLaren feels about moving to Honda engines next year?

Mercedes have nailed the transition to turbo engines.

It's rumoured that Honda are already supplying McLaren with sacks of cash. If so I'm sure that will be assuaging any discomfort McLaren might be feeling.

Renault are still not looking in great shape. Apart from Williams and Marussia, all the Mercedes- and Ferrari-powered teams have completed a lot of laps, while of the Renault teams only Caterham has managed a decent lap count so far.

The top times look pretty respectable already. Last year's fastest race lap was a 1:36 and pole a 1:32. Given the greater weight, reduced downforce and the early stage of development, I'm surprised to see them this close already.

[Tazio]

Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m36.880s 78
2. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m37.879s +0.999s 64
3. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m37.908s +1.028s 74
4. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 1m38.295s +1.415s 81
5. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m40.224s +3.344s 14
6. Adrian Sutil Sauber-Ferrari 1m40.443s +3.563s 82
7. Robin Frijns Caterham-Renault 1m42.534s +5.654s 68
8. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault 1m44.346s +7.466s 5
9. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m44.832s +7.952s 8
10. Felipe Massa Williams-Meredes no time 5
11. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Ferrari no time 3

News sources are quick to point out that Hulk's fastest lap is faster than the fastest race lap in last year’s Bahrain GP. However it is also slower than Max Chilton's best quali lap that earned him grid position 22 for that same race. Pole last year was 132.3. I think they will find at least 2 seconds before they are done in Bahrain.

[RS]

Vettel's time was not so bad considering how few laps Red Bull have done. Maybe the Renailt wll perform ok once they sort the reliability out.

[airshifter]

I really don't pay much attention to testing times until the last couple of tests, and then only pay a little bit of attention. There are far too many variables as to who it testing what at what point in the day, fuel loads, sandbagging, etc.

It's great to see that some cars are near last years times, but without the full picture it still doesn't tell us much. If that time was a flyer in qually trim then they might be slow, if that lap was after a lot of laps in race conditions in race trim it tells us more, but still not the whole picture really.

[steveaki13]

Seems like its been another tough day for Red Bull.

Renault clearly having some difficulties.

I too am surprised by how close to last years times the cars are already. That normally means massive aero gain and thus tougher overtaking.

[rjbetty]

Looking forward to seeing what Marussia can do.

Perhaps Red Bull's time is fairly ominous given their difficulties. 6 months worth of dispensation later and it could be business as usual.

And, no, I'm not at all jealous of Red Bull. I never get bored of Sebastien Loeb and his titles in the WRC. I wish he could have made it 10 but I guess he saw what was coming with Ogier and VW.

[steveaki13]

rjbetty

What do you think Marussia can achieve this season. They have had some struggles today, but do you think they could actually score a point or more.

We must be two of the biggest supporters of the two backmarker teams. Most appear to think they are a waste of space. Every season we have the "this season a crazy race will give them a point"

I think with all the changes going on this could be the season.

Here's hoping

[airshifter]

I'm all for the teams at the back of the pack making up ground, and I'd be happy if they made up so much that the cars became pole winning and podium earning cars at that. The closer the cars are in performance, the more the races get mixed up based on driver skill, strategy, qualification, etc. You'll never see me oppose tight racing, even if my preferred drivers don't win.

[AndyL]

It's great to see that some cars are near last years times, but without the full picture it still doesn't tell us much. If that time was a flyer in qually trim then they might be slow, if that lap was after a lot of laps in race conditions in race trim it tells us more, but still not the whole picture really.

If Hulkenberg's time was set after a lot of laps in race trim it would be truly astonishing. If it was a flier in full qualy trim then it means the 2014 cars are not going to be as slow as was previously speculated.

[RS]

I really don't pay much attention to testing times until the last couple of tests, and then only pay a little bit of attention. There are far too many variables as to who it testing what at what point in the day, fuel loads, sandbagging, etc.


I think that's true in "normal" years but this year is so up in the air I think the testing is more significant.

I doubt anyones even thought about sandbagging for example, I think the majority of teams are just concentrating on getting the things reliable and driveable and set up and performance will come later.

I think it could be quite significant that all four Mercedes teams are fairly consistently at the head of the times, bar the odd interruption from Ferrari.

[Tazio]

Obviously we can't draw any conclusions from the times they are setting. We would have to know who has turned the wick up and who hasn't. It's probably safe to say that RB hasn't even come close. Perhaps a team or two did near the end of practice when the fastest times were set. FWIW McLaren and FI set their fastest times on super softs. Ferrari and Mercedes were on softs, not sure about the rest of the field.

[SGWilko]

Super softs? Not available at Bahrain AFAIAA

[COD]

Magnussen today only ~2secs slower than last years pole. The cars are not as pathetic as some have predicted. Surely not as slow as GP2 cars as I have heard some people saying

[RS]

Interesting comments by Kobayashi: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112590

[Tazio]

Super softs? Not available at Bahrain AFAIAA
13:24 The McLaren returns to the pits after that short run. EDD STRAW reports that Magnussen was running the super-soft tyre.

[Mia 01]

Today is Kimi back in the Ferrari. I hope he gives us a glimse of what the car really can do.

[Roamy]

Today is Kimi back in the Ferrari. I hope he gives us a glimse of what the car really can do.

They will not tip their hand. Right now many have problems. I would imagine Ferrari is running very low boost.
They have the upper hand and they will not show all. Alonso will storm Aussie

[henners88]

It is awesome to see Massa interviewed in Williams blue! Seems strange too after so many years at the Scuderia. Really suits him though and I hope he has a competitive year :)

[RS]

No Renault engined car has yet been within 3s of the top time from each test day. They will have to run them at full beans sometime to see whether they can cope with the heat. Only 6 more test days to go, start of the season could be interesting!

[SGWilko]

Super softs? Not available at Bahrain AFAIAA
13:24 The McLaren returns to the pits after that short run. EDD STRAW reports that Magnussen was running the super-soft tyre.

My Bad - as usual, I aint right!!! ;)

[Tazio]

Super softs? Not available at Bahrain AFAIAA
13:24 The McLaren returns to the pits after that short run. EDD STRAW reports that Magnussen was running the super-soft tyre.

My Bad - as usual, I aint right!!! ;)

It's cool daddy-o, as the bard said it ain''t about being right, just about being! :confused: ;)

Remember, every dog shall have his day :dog: :dork: :angel:

[TheFamousEccles]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/main ... r=7830&s=2 (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/main-gallery/lewis-hamilton-mercedes-amg-f1-w05-62/?i=27&id=1664138&sz=1&r=7830&s=2)

Awesome pic of the Boss - F1 cars do have working suspension!

[TheFamousEccles]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/main ... r=7830&s=2 (http://www.motorsport.com/f1/photo/main-gallery/daniel-ricciardo-red-bull-racing-rb10-9/?i=57&id=1664108&sz=1&r=7830&s=2)

Go Danny boy!!!!!!

Just getting my parochial on... ;)

[easy rider]

Good sesssion for lewis today, and as he said, " the car seems to be responding to my style of driving."

That must be very encouraging news for his fans...... :D

[Tazio]

The Boss is tits, that is why I gave him the nom de guerre. :bounce:
What about Fred, or better yet Kimi. The Ferrari F1 challenger is going to be a quick little car.... MARK ME!! :angryfire :stareup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMDVMp3CbdY :sailor:

[RS]

The Boss is tits, that is why I gave him the nom de guerre. :bounce:


I thought it was because he speaks in an American accent, like "The Boss" Bruce Springsteen.

[steveaki13]

The Fastest testing times over the 4 days. :)

1. Nico Rosberg (Ger) Mercedes one minute 33.283 seconds

2. Lewis Hamilton (GB) Mercedes 1:34.263

3. Kevin Magnussen (Den) McLaren-Mercedes 1:34.910

4. Jenson Button (GB) McLaren-Mercedes 1:34.957

5. Nico Hulkenberg (Ger) Force India-Mercedes 1:36.445

6. Fernando Alonso (Spa) Ferrari 1:36.516

7. Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) Ferrari 1:36.718

8. Felipe Massa (Brz) Williams-Mercedes 1:37.066

9. Esteban Gutierrez (Mex) Sauber-Ferrari 1:37.180

10. Valtteri Bottas (Fin) Williams-Mercedes 1:37.328

11. Sergio Perez (Mex) Force India-Mercedes 1:37.367

12. Felipe Nasr (Brz) Williams-Mercedes 1:37.569

13. Pastor Maldonado (Ven) Lotus-Renault 1:38.707

14. Daniil Kvyat (Rus) Toro Rosso-Renault 1:38.974

15. Daniel Ricciardo (Aus) Red Bull-Renault 1:39.837

16. Kamui Kobayashi (Jpn) Caterham-Renault 139.855

17. Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Red Bull-Renault 1:40.340

18. Adrian Sutil (Ger) Sauber-Ferrari 1:40.443

19. Jean-Eric Vergne (Fra) Toro Rosso-Renault 1:40.609

20. Romain Grosjean (Fra) Lotus-Renault 1:41.670

21. Marcus Ericsson (Swe) Caterham-Renault 1:42.130

22. Max Chilton (GB) Marussia-Ferrari 1:42.511

23. Robin Frijns (Ned) Caterham-Renault 1:42.534

[steveaki13]

Wow. I know its only pre season testing but Mercedes have set some pace here, 33.2 is mighty fast whatever the fuel load.

McLaren against despite it being testing seem well matched. Surely this seasons car can't be such a pig as last year. McLaren don't often produce duffers two years In a row these days.

Force India and Williams seem decent as well. I am really hoping to see Williams moving into regular points scoring mode again.

Red Bull in terms of reliability have continued to struggle. Again most days blighted by issues.

Sauber appear where you would expect and Lotus lack of miles is similar to Red Bull.

Caterham and Marussia still seem slow, but the latter have not done many laps again.

I am looking forward to the season already. Come on.............

[Tazio]

I thought it was because he speaks in an American accent, like "The Boss" Bruce Springsteen.
That Boss doesn't have an accent like the American bros I hang with. :confused: :p

[Tazio]

Feels a little sorry for Kimiti Kimsta rollerblade. :angryfire :stareup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW5NFV11fUA :erm: ;(

[henners88]

Wow. I know its only pre season testing but Mercedes have set some pace here, 33.2 is mighty fast whatever the fuel load.

McLaren against despite it being testing seem well matched. Surely this seasons car can't be such a pig as last year. McLaren don't often produce duffers two years In a row these days.

Force India and Williams seem decent as well. I am really hoping to see Williams moving into regular points scoring mode again.

Red Bull in terms of reliability have continued to struggle. Again most days blighted by issues.

Sauber appear where you would expect and Lotus lack of miles is similar to Red Bull.

Caterham and Marussia still seem slow, but the latter have not done many laps again.

I am looking forward to the season already. Come on.............
Thanks for the round up, saves me reading into it further for now :)

[steveaki13]

Wow. I know its only pre season testing but Mercedes have set some pace here, 33.2 is mighty fast whatever the fuel load.

McLaren against despite it being testing seem well matched. Surely this seasons car can't be such a pig as last year. McLaren don't often produce duffers two years In a row these days.

Force India and Williams seem decent as well. I am really hoping to see Williams moving into regular points scoring mode again.

Red Bull in terms of reliability have continued to struggle. Again most days blighted by issues.

Sauber appear where you would expect and Lotus lack of miles is similar to Red Bull.

Caterham and Marussia still seem slow, but the latter have not done many laps again.

I am looking forward to the season already. Come on.............
Thanks for the round up, saves me reading into it further for now :)

No worries. :p

I forgot Ferrari. They seem to be under the radar just plodding along.

Anyway all of that will be proven wrong come the season. :D

[Tazio]

Wow. I know its only pre season testing but Mercedes have set some pace here, 33.2 is mighty fast whatever the fuel load.



I am really hoping to see Williams moving into regular points scoring mode again.



I am looking forward to the season already. Come on.............






Anyway all of that will be proven wrong come the season. :D

I wonder if Felipe will have free rein to resume crashing the bejezzus out of The Boss again this season? :p

[steveaki13]

Absolutely. Felipe Baby has always had the talent to ruin Lewis's Race. :D All the way back to Fuji 07 or 08 was it at the chicane.

[RS]

Best video I have seen of all the cars at the Bahrain test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNcZQpSmizs#t=0

Having seen the video above, I rather like the sound of the new cars now. My worry is that due to the lower rev limit, and the ability to change up through the gears early due to the extra torque they just won't "sound" as fast. In the same way that some turbo rally cars sound a bit boring due to not revving so much and having quite a muffled sound.

[Robinho]

i'm going to stick my neck onthe line - i like the sound, and when you have 20 + of these things its not going to be quiet - sure on their own they are less loud and shrill, but i like the note.

I'm also not too bothererd by the looks, some of the cars do look pretty silly, but only from the certain angle when still, once they are moving its really not that much of an issue - at least they don't all look identical

[Mia 01]

I think most of the competititon this year will be an endurance and fuel saving racing. Therefore, its hard to tell the ranking.

[steveaki13]

I think most of the competititon this year will be an endurance and fuel saving racing. Therefore, its hard to tell the ranking.

You could be right Mia. :(

[Tazio]

Absolutely. Felipe Baby has always had the talent to ruin Lewis's Race. :D All the way back to Fuji 07 or 08 was it at the chicane.
It was 2008. The Boss was also penalized in that race for running Kimi off the track at the first corner :dork:

[steveaki13]

Absolutely. Felipe Baby has always had the talent to ruin Lewis's Race. :D All the way back to Fuji 07 or 08 was it at the chicane.
It was 2008. The Boss was also penalized in that race for running Kimi off the track at the first corner :dork:

Of course it was. 07 was V wet. :vampire:

Lewis really had a :skull: Race that day.

[minardi]

Last four days of testing, with Caterham, Marussia, and the two Red Bull squads seemingly having a long way to come before they're where they want to be.

Today's drivers:
Red Bull - Daniel Ricciardo
Mercedes - Nico Rosberg
Ferrari - Kimi Raikkonen
Lotus - Pastor Maldonado
McLaren - Kevin Magnussen
Force India - Sergio Perez
Sauber - Adrian Sutil
Williams - Valtteri Bottas
Toro Rosso - Daniil Kvyat
Caterham - Kamui Kobayashi
Marussia - Max Chilton

[RS]

Marussia seem to be capable of setting some reasonable times when their car is running.

All cars seem to be running more reliably now but still all Mercedes at the front. Either Ferrari are yet to show their hand or they have a problem...

[Tazio]

Marussia seem to be capable of setting some reasonable times when their car is running.

All cars seem to be running more reliably now but still all Mercedes at the front. Either Ferrari are yet to show their hand or they have a problem...
I wouldn't write them off yet mate. Although they had some unexplained issues that limited running today, only FI and Williams have posted faster times(with 1/2 hour to go). These times really don't mean anything. Perhaps Ferrari are a little on the back foot but I think they will have a good challenger for Oz. My guess is not quite as good as the Mercedes works team however.

[Tazio]

I guess Vettel is starting to get a little Angryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ;)

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/red-bull ... s-anything (http://www.f1today.net/en/news/red-bull-getting-angry-wont-bring-us-anything)

[AndyL]

I wouldn't write them off yet mate. Although they had some unexplained issues that limited running today, only FI and Williams have posted faster times(with 1/2 hour to go). These times really don't mean anything. Perhaps Ferrari are a little on the back foot but I think they will have a good challenger for Oz. My guess is not quite as good as the Mercedes works team however.

I agree, I think Ferrari are looking decent. Right now I would put them alongside McLaren as the 2nd and 3rd teams. But the Mercedes team have a clear margin over all of them.

[AndyL]

Lap totals by engine manufacturer on the first day of the final test:

Mercedes: 431 (4 cars)
Ferrari: 187 (3 cars)
Renault: 144 (4 cars)

[Tazio]

I wouldn't write them off yet mate. Although they had some unexplained issues that limited running today, only FI and Williams have posted faster times(with 1/2 hour to go). These times really don't mean anything. Perhaps Ferrari are a little on the back foot but I think they will have a good challenger for Oz. My guess is not quite as good as the Mercedes works team however.

I agree, I think Ferrari are looking decent. Right now I would put them alongside McLaren as the 2nd and 3rd teams. But the Mercedes team have a clear margin over all of them.

Ferrari had enough running time to try out at least one of it's aero upgrades:

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Kim ... 758182.jpg (http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Kimi-Raeikkoenen-Ferrari-Formel-1-Test-Bahrain-27-Februar-2014-fotoshowBigImage-9bd334f1-758182.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/OKjDc06.jpg

[Tazio]

No laps for Red Bull or Torro Rosso yet...

Still think the McLaren looks really good; the cars with the smooth transitions on the noses, penis or not, look best IMO (like the Sauber and McLaren)

http://gpupdate2.ed5.nl/large/237599.jpg
Better?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULcLqu3wFLQ 'nough said :hmph: :stareup: :dork:
I like Williams a lot!

[steveaki13]

So Red Bull were fastest yesterday... :hmph:

But they also spent five hours in the shed. :erm:

So are they good or not. :confused:


Anyway I just wanted to ask a question.

Which teams are yet to revel their final livery?

I mean Williams are going for a Martini livery, when do we see that?

McLaren are currently all Mercedes silver. Are they expecting to change that?

I hate Saubers dull grey. Is that there final livery?

[minardi]

So Red Bull were fastest yesterday... :hmph:

But they also spent five hours in the shed. :erm:

So are they good or not. :confused:


Perez was fastest, while Red Bull were down in 7th. They're likely to have a decent car aerodynamically, but just having a lot of problems internally, as well as the Renault engines being turned down due to their problems too.


Which teams are yet to revel their final livery?

I mean Williams are going for a Martini livery, when do we see that?

McLaren are currently all Mercedes silver. Are they expecting to change that?

I hate Saubers dull grey. Is that there final livery?

Just McLaren and Williams are yet to unveil their full livery. Sadly Sauber are just dull as dish water again. As for McLaren, they haven't mentioned anything about when their livery will launch. I'd imagine it'll be done via Twitter in the week before Melbourne. Williams is rumoured to be showing it before arriving in Melbourne as well, but not before the testing is complete. However, there has been a spy shot (below).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhBl-0BCQAEmOY-.jpg

[Tazio]

So Red Bull were fastest yesterday... :hmph:

But they also spent five hours in the shed. :erm:

So are they good or not. :confused:


Anyway I just wanted to ask a question.

Which teams are yet to revel their final livery?

I mean Williams are going for a Martini livery, when do we see that?

McLaren are currently all Mercedes silver. Are they expecting to change that?

I hate Saubers dull grey. Is that there final livery?Dawg! :dog: :confused:

[airshifter]

It is stated that many teams were working on longer runs, so times really don't indicate all that much....

Unofficial Thursday test times from Bahrain
1. Sergio Perez, Force India, 1m 35.290s, 105 laps
2. Valtteri Bottas, Williams, 1m 36.184s, 128 laps
3. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1m 36.432s, 54 laps
4. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, 1m 36.624s, 89 laps
5. Adrian Sutil, Sauber, 1m 37.700s, 89 laps
6. Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, 1m 37.825s, 109 laps
7. Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, 1m 37.908s, 39 laps
8. Max Chilton, Marussia, 1m 38.610s, 44 laps
9. Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso, 1m 39.242s, 56 laps
10. Pastor Maldonado, Lotus, 1m 40.599s, 31 laps
11. Kamui Kobayashi, Caterham, 1m 42.285s, 19 laps


I wouldn't be shocked it all of us are surprised what happens for the first few races. Drivers ready to race and cars that might not be completely ready could be a combination that resembles rolling the dice. :D

[minardi]

Bahrain Friday AM: Red Bull bottom of the mileage list, with just 15 laps. Shame... :cool:

[steveaki13]

I must have been drunk. :p Where did I get Red Bull fastest. :crazy: :laugh:

Sorry about that.

Never the less its clear Red Bull haven't managed anything like a Grand Prix distance I assume. :lips:

[Tazio]

13:32
Lewis Hamilton won't be seen on track again today. The team has confirmed gearbox problems have ended his day early.
Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrry Mercedes finally has some semblance of a reliability issue :devil: :burp: ;)

13:13
After a 23m break in the pits, Ricciardo comes back out and puts the Red Bull into the 1m35s for the first time.Could be the beginning of another long, scary movie :uhoh: ;( :bomb: :vampire: :eek:

[Tazio]

I wouldn't be shocked it all of us are surprised what happens for the first few races. Drivers ready to race and cars that might not be completely ready could be a combination that resembles rolling the dice. :D
Come Oz almost all well funded teams will b e sufficiently prepared to do seriously developed war.... dawg! :dog: ;)

[Tazio]

Winter Testing 2014 - Session 3, Day 2 - Bahrain (28.02.2014)[/u]

Ferrari using new rear wing and are kind of fast today :bounce:

That's why Fred's Red (Kimi akso) :dork: :devil:


http://i.imgur.com/SAhZhNd.jpg
][url]http://i.imgur.com/IvN1qSP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tZSp9Mj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ufCXIFa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Lrfdho7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ODOHoch.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/voZoBUH.jpg
]http://i.imgur.com/A5knHRz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y3wcv4U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/W4Fi21U.jpg
]http://i.imgur.com/Cy6odPw.jpg [/img]

Kimi also :cool:

[Mia 01]

A productive day for Ferrar, at last, 122 laps covered today.

Perhaps one of their cars will finish the race in Oz, I bet it will be Alonsos.

[Tazio]

A productive day for Ferrar, at last, 122 laps covered today.

Perhaps one of their cars will finish the race in Oz, I bet it will be Alonsos.
Mia, Mia Mia Mia. Both Ferrari challengers are going to show up in Australia with new everything as you would expect for the first race on the first engine of a designated number that are supposed to last al races or penaltys. Kimi an Santyander will both do well in Oz, unless Slash or Igor, or even freakin Grosjean. and Perez :laugh: Everyone has to mess with them. But I think the synergism between Kimi and Fred will be Royal noble and stately. Plus I think that they would just as soon keep it like that. I mean bthey are not special when it comes to dynamic and strategic pairings, like untill someone or both on McLaren totally implode. All I am saying is any freakin' thing could happen in F1 2014, hell they are just having the time of their live s complete with a long series of very entertaing partys!!
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/dont-tread-on-me-flag-war-is-hell-store.jpg

[RS]

The Renault teams seem to be 'turning up' the engines now and are beginning to go faster. I wonder how long they can last though on that setting? Vettel managed half a lap this morning before breaking down again.

[Robinho]

It's getting comical, only one day of testing remaining after today and vettel has managed 4 corners. Tried to go out again later and didn't even make the end of the pit lane. The max they've done in all testing so far is 20 laps. On current form they'll be lucky to make the race. I'm sure they'll run better come Melbourne, but they only have a couple of weeks

[Mia 01]

Yes, its looking grim for Red Bull at the moment, but things can change rapidly come Oz.

[steveaki13]

Yup a whole day and Red Bull manage 0 laps.

I thought after the first test that Red Bull would be on top of issues by this stage. But lets be honest, this is now looking tough.

Come Australia I cant say they are very likely to last a race distance. They might get up there in Qualifying, but its tough to only be doing a max of 20 laps in a row in testing and head to Oz needing to do best part of 60.

Confidence will be low now.

9 cars only to finish.

[DazzlaF1]

Yup a whole day and Red Bull manage 0 laps.

I thought after the first test that Red Bull would be on top of issues by this stage. But lets be honest, this is now looking tough.

Come Australia I cant say they are very likely to last a race distance. They might get up there in Qualifying, but its tough to only be doing a max of 20 laps in a row in testing and head to Oz needing to do best part of 60.

Confidence will be low now.

9 cars only to finish.
It says a lot about Red Bull's situation when even Toro Rosso and Caterham (with exactly the same engines) are getting more mileage.

Overall though at this rate, my prediction of Marussia and/or Caterham getting their very first points could be coming true

[steveaki13]

I was just listening to a Vergne interview and he stated, he believes if you finish in the first few races, you will be in the points. i.e 6-10 finishers.

Then a team member said its going to be carnage like we haven't seen for some time.

[rjbetty]

This is exciting! :crazy:

Enjoy it while it lasts! This time next year (or long before) it will be back to humdrum super duper reliability, Codemasters F1 style... until 2020.

[RS]

Red Bull broken again this morning.

It's not only the reliability which must be a concern to the teams, but the fact that when they have a problem it often takes a whole day to fix it. That's not gonna work on a GP weekend!

[Zico]

Still a long way to go for them, at least RB/Vettel got some running this morning but It would take a brave man to bet on them even being able to finish the 1st race.

Hard to read Ferrari are close but the engines are looking second best at this stage, so it's looking more and more like it will be a Mercedes engined car that wins in OZ... but which one? Even Mercedes themselves, despite their high testing millage, aren't without their issues either and have only just gone out for the first time today after a gearbox issue.


Can someone tell me about Qualy engine settings for the new cars... Not that they'd want to until reliability has improved but can they turn them right up for qualy as per the previous era turbo cars?.. or is there a max fuel flow rate or similar handicap?
Will qualy likely be a non event in OZ due to the importance of simply making it to the end of the race?

[pino]

So finally this year we might see, how really good Vettel is ;)

[Tazio]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

[rjbetty]

Fastest Times for each Driver over both Bahrain Tests

1. Felipe Massa, Williams, 1m 33.258s,
2. Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, 1m 33.278s, +0.020
3. Nico Rosberg, Mercedes, 1m 33.283s, +0.025
4. Valtteri Bottas, Williams, 1m 33.987s, +0.729
5. Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, 1m 34.280s, +1.022
6. Kevin Magnussen, McLaren, 1m 34.910s, +1.652
7. Jenson Button, McLaren, 1m 34.957s, +1.699
8. Sergio Perez, Force India, 1m 35.290s, +2.032
9. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, 1m 35.426s, +2.168
10. Nico Hulkenberg, Force India, 1m 35.577s, +2.319
11. Jean-Eric Vergne, Toro Rosso, 1m 35.701s, +2.443
12. Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull, 1m 35.743s, +2.485
13. Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso, 1m 36.113s, +2.855
14. Adrian Sutil, Sauber, 1m 36.467s, +3.209
15. Max Chilton, Marussia, 1m 36.835s, +3.577
16. Jules Bianchi, Marussia, 1m 37.087s, +3.829
17. Esteban Gutierrez, Sauber, 1m 37.180s, +3.922
18. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, 1m 37.468s, +4.210
19. Marcus Ericsson, Caterham, 1m 38.083s, +4.835
20. Kamui Kobayashi, Caterham, 1m 38.391s, +5.133
21. Pastor Maldonado, Lotus, 1m 38.707s, +5.451
22. Romain Grosjean, Lotus, 1m 39.302s, +6.044

[steveaki13]

That would be quite a fun Grid for the Australian GP wouldn't it.

Felipe Baby

[Tazio]

http://i33.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0302/ea/69c3f47ffb4c22ea03d63010167f6eea.jpg
I realize this grab is not very clear, but the lower number in the red box says that Fred hit 340 kph at Bahrain of all places.
Over 211 mph, what will they reach at Monza? I read (can't find the link) that Ted Kravitz revealed a conversation he had with Nico Rosberg, in which Rosberg stated that 230mph (370kph) would be possible in China. :eek:

[jens]

So finally this year we might see, how really good Vettel is ;)

Well, it is a bit difficult to see if your car barely gets out of the pitlane so-to-speak...

But that's what Red Bull's tests have been all about. Vettel must be wondering if he can even complete qualifying laps at Melbourne! Because RBR has run out of testing opportunities now and just have to hope some factory tweaks during the next couple of weeks actually make the car run properly!

[Tazio]

That would be quite a fun Grid for the Australian GP wouldn't it.

Felipe Baby
If that was the starting grid, without Seb, Kimi, and, Hulk ahead on the grid, Fred would be in p2 by the second turn, and have the Boss for the lead by the end of lap 2 :dork: ;)

[jens]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

"Uncharacteristically poor form" as in parking the car in flames after a couple of laps.:)

Also the bad news for RBR is that if you can hardly drive any laps as it has been in winter testing, you can't really analyze the car. Which means Red Bull's setups may be well off in the early races, which means they are far from maximizing car's potential and the setups may not be to Vettel's liking, which means he struggles. This even leaving aside all reliability issues! It doesn't mean Vettel is bad like some would like to believe then, but it just reflects on the poor preparation of the team in general. Without preparation you can't perform well.

Long-term outlooks? Largely depends on how much down on power Renault really is, because it is hard to say anything about the horsepower numbers thrown around. However, you'd think at least Red Bull's chassis should be fast, even if a bit (understatement!) unreliable.

[Tazio]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

"Uncharacteristically poor form" as in parking the car in flames after a couple of laps.:)

Also the bad news for RBR is that if you can hardly drive any laps as it has been in winter testing, you can't really analyze the car. Which means Red Bull's setups may be well off in the early races, which means they are far from maximizing car's potential and the setups may not be to Vettel's liking, which means he struggles. This even leaving aside all reliability issues! It doesn't mean Vettel is bad like some would like to believe then, but it just reflects on the poor preparation of the team in general. Without preparation you can't perform well.

Long-term outlooks? Largely depends on how much down on power Renault really is, because it is hard to say anything about the horsepower numbers thrown around. However, you'd think at least Red Bull's chassis should be fast, even if a bit (understatement!) unreliable.
That's what I said! :laugh: ;)

[jens]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

"Uncharacteristically poor form" as in parking the car in flames after a couple of laps.:)

Also the bad news for RBR is that if you can hardly drive any laps as it has been in winter testing, you can't really analyze the car. Which means Red Bull's setups may be well off in the early races, which means they are far from maximizing car's potential and the setups may not be to Vettel's liking, which means he struggles. This even leaving aside all reliability issues! It doesn't mean Vettel is bad like some would like to believe then, but it just reflects on the poor preparation of the team in general. Without preparation you can't perform well.

Long-term outlooks? Largely depends on how much down on power Renault really is, because it is hard to say anything about the horsepower numbers thrown around. However, you'd think at least Red Bull's chassis should be fast, even if a bit (understatement!) unreliable.
That's what I said! :laugh: ;)

:D Let's see, what happens then.:)

[driveace]

You reap what you sow ,whilst RB and Horner were grinning at everybody,the other teams were getting on with designing a good engine and car to the new regulations for 2014. Now that time has arrived and the last tests have finished it looks like Vettel and Horner are on the back foot,and sulking .Vettel being told by mr Red Bull that throwing 10 million at the situation will not cure their problems .Looks like Mercedes have got the engine sorted,and now we know why Lewis jumped ship 1 year earlier than we all expected.Hopefully this will lead to closer racing,at least at the beginning of the season,with Mercedes,Williams,Force India,and Ferrari more closely matched.BUT I must admit as in the last 4 years if one team walks away from everybody else as Vettel and RB has done this last 4 years,then it will be switch off time again .I think the first 4/5 races will see lots of retirements till the teams get the gremlins sorted.Just hope Renault and RB are not given a further test and developement period .
Where Vettels German mate vanished too ?

[easy rider]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

Sebastian as you say, " once again he will be king shit behind the wheel ," will only happen if Red Bull are able to get the exhaust gases into the diffuser, which will be pretty hard to accomplish, because of the new regulations this season.

[Tazio]

:stareup: I know the answer to that query. He will start the season in uncharacteristically poor form. His driving, and his car will start gradually improving, and when Red Bull have all their issues sorted out, once again he'll be king-shit behind the wheel. :andrea:

Sebastian as you say, " once again he will be king shit behind the wheel ," will only happen if Red Bull are able to get the exhaust gases into the diffuser, which will be pretty hard to accomplish, because of the new regulations this season.
Yeah but that Newey fella' is a sneaky little shit, and there is more than one way to skin a cat ;)

[Storm]

I know that this testing crap isn't reliable....but I am hoping atleast that Redbull cannot resolve these issues in one magic swoop..especially
with no running till friday in Melbourne. This is turning out to be a very exciting wait for me (after years actually) and I hope a Redbull front row on Saturday
will not be the end result of this anticipation.

[minardi]

I know that this testing crap isn't reliable....but I am hoping atleast that Redbull cannot resolve these issues in one magic swoop..especially
with no running till friday in Melbourne. This is turning out to be a very exciting wait for me (after years actually) and I hope a Redbull front row on Saturday
will not be the end result of this anticipation.

Sadly Red Bull do get some extra running before now and Australia... they have a filming day today in Bahrain.

[AndyL]

Overall though at this rate, my prediction of Marussia and/or Caterham getting their very first points could be coming true

Yes could be both couldn't it! They've both shown good reliability in testing. In Caterham's case the speed has not looked great, but Marussia have hinted at some respectable pace on occasion. Maybe in Australia they could even beat one of the "senior" Renault teams on pace, if the Renault runners have to go easy on the engines to make the finish.

[RS]

So finally this year we might see, how really good Vettel is ;)

I don't think we will really know that until he has a proven top-level teammate.

[easy rider]

Yeah but that Newey fella' is a sneaky little shit, and there is more than one way to skin a cat ;)

Hmmmm.....Tazio you just might have a point.

http://grandprix247.com/2014/03/03/butt ... rtook-him/ (http://grandprix247.com/2014/03/03/button-wary-of-red-bull-and-describes-how-ricciardo-overtook-him/)

[Tazio]

Yeah but that Newey fella' is a sneaky little shit, and there is more than one way to skin a cat ;)


[Hmmmm.....Tazio you just might have a point.
http://grandprix247.com/2014/03/03/butt ... rtook-him/

Thank's for the link daddy-o :smokin:
Everyone knows that RB's are the eayiest to drive fast. Look how good they made Webber look. :dork:
Hey, I meant to say that the RB10 looks fast just sitting on the track at Jerez, except they had so many problems that I decided to reserve judgment. Plus I've been trying to figure out why Kimi and Fred were working hard for 135's. The latest theory and intimated by sources in Modena. Ferrari didn't have an electric system that would allow them to run KERS, ICE, and MGU-k for one whole lap at full use of all units without overheating...something. Maybe they mean the batteries. Anyway with twice the number of engine tech. at Mercedes than they have at Ferrari, it sort of creates a new Evil Empire :vader: :angryfire :burn: :vampire: :devil: :crazy:

[TheFamousEccles]

Another view on the RB/Renault brewing fiasco, from the Judge13...

http://thejudge13.com/2014/03/04/hippos ... -no-mercy/ (http://thejudge13.com/2014/03/04/hippos-view-from-the-water-hole-why-renault-deserves-no-mercy/)

:facelick:

[Tazio]

Great!! Thanks for the link da da da daddy-o :stareup: :bandit:

[Zico]

Saw this on another forum where Motorsport-total.com released an article about what marko had to say about renault in a tv-show called 'Servus TV'

Quote
"Der Auftakt kommt für uns mindestens zwei Monate zu früh. Und das wird eine ganz schwierige Angelegenheit, das aufzuholen. Momentan wissen wir nicht, in welchem Zeitrahmen es überhaupt möglich ist und ob es möglich ist."

The start of the season comes at least two months too early for us. It's really going to be hard to catch up. Right now, we don't even know how long it's going to take and if it is even possible to catch up at all.

Marko about the reasons of why renault ran into troubles came jerez and why they still can't seem to find a solution:
Quote
"Renault hat im Vergleich zu Ferrari und Mercedes den Motor nur als Verbrennungsmotor auf dem Prüfstand laufen lassen - ohne Getriebe. Mit dem Getriebe kommen thermische Probleme, Vibrationen. Als dann die gesamte Einheit zum Einsatz gekommen ist, hat man erst gesehen, welche Probleme auftreten - davor dachten die, dass ihr Antriebsstrang funktioniert."

Compared to ferrari and mercedes, renault did let the engine run as an internal-combustion engine only in their test bed - without the gearbox (whatever that means?!). [But] you'll get thermall problems, vibrations when you include the gear(box). They first figured out there were problems, once the entire unit was tested - before that, renault thought their drive train would work as anticipated.

Marko about the driveability of the renault engine:
Quote
"Das Zusammenspiel der unterschiedlichen Elemente des Antriebsstrangs sei der Kern des Übels. Zudem hat man noch enorme Probleme mit der Fahrbarkeit: Die Motorleistung setzt zu abrupt ein, und bei Vollgas liegt man gegenüber Ferrari und vor allem Mercedes im Rückstand." [...] "Zuerst steigst du aufs Gas, aber die Leistung kommt nicht [...] und dann kommt sie urplötzlich, die Räder drehen durch, dadurch rutscht das Auto, du verlierst Speed, aber auch Drehzahl, weil du wieder vom Gas musst."

'The interplay between the different elemenst of the power unit is the core of all problems. Plus there are tremendous problems in terms of driveability. The output of the engine is way too sudden. Also we're behind ferrari and mercedes 'full throttle wise'
[...] 'You tap the gas, but their's simply no power [...] just to realize it comming extremely sudden at one point, you get wheelspin, as an result, the car goes sideways, you lose speed as well as revs, due to the driver having to go off the power.'

Marko about what kind of 'failure'/'mistake' the renault power unit suffers from:
Quote
[...] deutet an, dass es sich nicht um ein mechanisches, sondern vorrangig um ein Software-Problem handelt.
[Marko] implies, that it is not a mechanical, but primarily a software-problem.
Quote
[...] "denn scheinbar ist auch die Korrelation ein Problem. Das, was der Renault-Prufstand anzeigt, ist in der Realität nicht gegeben."

[...] 'apparently there's also a corellation problem. The data comming from the renault test-bed doesn't match what's going on in reality'/[or what it is supposed to be like in reality]

Marko about Red Bulls cooling-issues
Quote


"Das liegt daran, dass wir von Renault keine Daten bekommen haben, wie heiß das wird, wie viel Luftdurchfluss man benötigt."

'The reason for that is, we didn't get any data about how hot it would get, how much airflow would be required.' (He's also saying that the renault teams got the power unit in its whole in jerez first)


Almost unbelievable. Lots of finger pointing will likely be done by both sides but If there is much truth in what Marko says, what more can one really say about Renaults monumental basic failures here?
If true I just feel really sorry for all the Renault engined teams... especially Caterham and Lotus who were already teetering on the brink of oblivion.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?

[TheFamousEccles]

That was you, dj? :eek: I went and re-read it and there are some similarities in writing style, though I suspect a spell-checker was used for that one :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

That was you, dj? :eek: I went and re-read it and there are some similarities in writing style, though I suspect a spell-checker was used for that one :D

Yep, of course I use a spell-checker ;) In fact I'm usually ribbing the judge about the fact that my articles have less spellink mistakez in them than his and I'm a kraut, while he's a native speaker :D

[Zico]

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?


Well, yeah, I was actually very surprised. It's not like Renault are a small time engine manufacturer with inadequate resources and/or experience but as you say, the old guard will be long gone replaced, it seems, by lower paid and less experienced individuals fresh out of Uni.
What I really can't get my head round is how Red Bull even tried to build and package a car without knowing the engine and ERS cooling requirements, I've only recently (lightly) studied thermal and aerodynamic efficiency in jet turbine designs in Aero engineering which obviously sits very high in the long list of design requirements in the world of aviation... but I'd have thought that was a fairly basic fundamental requirement that really needs to be known at design stage with F1 cars also if you were serious about competing at the quick end of the grid?

Liked your 'Hippo' article btw.. :D

[Tazio]

Well, are you really surprised? I wrote the 'Hippo's View from the Waterhole' article linked above before the Marko interview was published. It was plain to see for everyone that Renault had effed up. The software broke down on the very first day of testing at Jerez, which means they hadn't tested it at all.
Renault operated on half the budget of Merc and Ferrari. How do you do that? Well 20 years in the industry have taught me that the first thing companies do is getting rid of expensive experts and hire younger, less experienced people, who they can pay less. We have a saying in Germany: "Kaufste Scheisse, kriegste Scheisse." (If you order shit, you'll get shit). Renault never tested their software in an emulator. They vomited some modem noise into a file and hoped it would work, but it didn't. How in the name of all that's holy did they expect to do with 250 engineers what Merc threw 500 engineers at?
Dawg; I've read that in the engine department Merc has around double the recourses than Ferrari. Did Renault punk out that badly, or are we about to see Ferrari crumble in the wake of the Mercedes juggernaut?

[driveace]

Have Renault and Ferrari been asleep,or complacent or both.We all knew long ago about the new engines for 2014,as all the F1 competitors.Lewis knew Mercedes where going to have a lead in engine development in late 2012,when he left McLaren ,for Mercedes .So how could these French and Italian motor manufacturers be caught out so badly ? There is a possibility there could be some sandbagging by the Italians ,but were Renault SO confident,after the last 4 years ,that they could lie in bed so late and long as to be caught out ?You reap what you sow ! I have NO sympathy !

[Tazio]

How do youn know that Ferrari were caught out so "badly"? They logged a lot of lap-dawgs, dawg! :laugh:Do you have some salacious info about the state of the Ferrari PU :dork:
As of now their concerns seem to be with electronics. not lump or aero, just a matter of getting the right amount of current without too much resistance through the system dawg ! :stareup: :stareup: :stareup: :stareup:

[Tazio]

Have Renault and Ferrari been asleep,or complacent or both.We all knew long ago about the new engines for 2014,as all the F1 competitors.Lewis knew Mercedes where going to have a lead in engine development in late 2012,when he left McLaren ,for Mercedes .So how could these French and Italian motor manufacturers be caught out so badly ? There is a possibility there could be some sandbagging by the Italians ,but were Renault SO confident,after the last 4 years ,that they could lie in bed so late and long as to be caught out ?You reap what you sow ! I have NO sympathy !

Who'd you call a psycho? :p :colour: :colour: :colour: :dog: :sailor: :vampire: :kiss: :kiss: :burn: :bones:

[AndyL]

What I really can't get my head round is how Red Bull even tried to build and package a car without knowing the engine and ERS cooling requirements

The start of the season is not going to move, what else could they do? They had to build a car even if they didn't have all the info they needed from Renault. They could have gone down Caterham's route, and made conservative assumptions about what the cooling requirements would be, resulting in a car that's reliable but slow. But Red Bull aren't coming at it from the same direction as Caterham of course. Finishing two places ahead of last is not a satisfactory day's work for them. Given their position in the pecking order I can quite understand why they would not choose to build a car that's too slow to win. I think a season with a lot of DNFs and a handful of wins once Renault get things under control would be more acceptable to Red Bull than a season of consistent mediocrity.