What Are They Doing In F1?

[DimitraF1]

Barichello, coulthard,ralf,trulli, they race so many years,whats left to prove? waiting for the best team to catch them?no way and they know that...
they like publicity? they like money?they like driving?i see absolutely nothing to gain so many years ,ok they won some races but thats it! now what?

[BeansBeansBeans]

They do a job they love and are paid hondsomely. If teams are still prepared to employ them, why on earth would they leave? Many teams see benefits in employing experienced drivers. Signing David Coulthard was, in my opinion, a very shrewd move by Red Bull.

[Caroline]

I have often wondered about Ralf Schumacher. No..really I have. He just hasn't really done much in recent years. I know that behind the scenes an awful lot of development work takes place and he must have an input, but surely Toyota have test divers to do the bulk of the work. Olivier Panis is worth two Ralf Schumachers in my opinion.

I would have also added Fisi to that list.

[DimitraF1]

caroline you taste panis and you know what he deserves? If that was truth then why they have ralf in the cockpit and not panis?

[Caroline]

I seem to remember Panis wanted to retire.

[jens]

Oh dear, another bashing thread for experienced drivers.

IMO the problem in F1 is not "old drivers filling precious seats", but the problem is that for youngsters it's too easy to get used to driving in F1. I find it bizarre that a rookie comes and matches a top driver already on his debut and then automatically the seats of 30+ drivers are under huge threat. Something must change...

[raphael123]

Oh dear, another bashing thread for experienced drivers.

IMO the problem in F1 is not "old drivers filling precious seats", but the problem is that for youngsters it's too easy to get used to driving in F1. I find it bizarre that a rookie comes and matches a top driver already on his debut and then automatically the seats of 30+ drivers are under huge threat. Something must change...

Why? If a 20yr old can match or beat a 30yr old, why shouldn't they be under threat? Makes perfect sense to me :)

[555-04Q2]

Why? If a 20yr old can match or beat a 30yr old, why shouldn't they be under threat? Makes perfect sense to me :)

Seconded :up:

[keysersoze]

Not everyone can be world champion material. Those drivers are still damn quick.

[jens]

Why? If a 20yr old can match or beat a 30yr old, why shouldn't they be under threat? Makes perfect sense to me :)

Yep and that is the problem IMO. Of course it's interesting to see new stars coming to F1, but that process has been too rapid in recent years.

What I mean? When for example Alesi, Irvine, Salo, Frentzen and Panis retired (just a few years ago!), then the reaction wasn't "Oh thank goodness they are at last gone!!!", but more likely people were a bit nostalgic "sad to see such a good driver retiring." And they were all 35+, when they retired. Well - haven't noticed such attitude these days!

Now drivers have hardly got over 30 and even if they are not partered by a rookie, who matches (or is at least close to) them, they are still disliked in some way.

[ArrowsFA1]

Now drivers have hardly got over 30 and even if they are not partered by a rookie, who matches (or is at least close to) them, they are still disliked in some way.
BMW are quite a good example. Ok, JV came as part of the deal and we all know the pro's & con's of his career, but he was doing a reasonable job. However BMW had Kubica waiting in the wings. So they replace JV with Kubica. Now it's Heidfeld under pressure because BMW have another of their own young drivers - Sebastian Vettel - waiting to take his place.

Nothing against Kubica or Vettel, because they both seem to be talented young prospects, but the average age of F1 drivers is falling - it fell from 28yrs last year to 27yrs this year - while the value put on experience seems to be falling as well.

The reason? Are the cars easier to drive so the step up to F1 is not as hard, or as much of a learning process as it once was? Is it simply a case that younger = cheaper for the team owners? Or are the youngsters more 'attractive' from a PR/marketing perspective?

If I were Sebastian Vettel, or a driver in his position, I'd be worried about the longevity of my career, because there are far more young drivers than F1 drives, and impressive youngsters appear every year for team owners to sign up as "test drivers".

One good thing about this is we may see other racing series thrive as discarded drivers, young and old, look to something other than F1.

[F1boat]

The reason? Are the cars easier to drive so the step up to F1 is not as hard

That's the reason IMO.

[tinchote]

That's the reason IMO.

That, combined with the computers and telemetry, so there is probably less input needed by the driver to setup the car.

[luvracin]

If people are prepared to pay me to drive an F1 car...

I'd hang around as long as possible!

[OmarF1]

I have mixed feelings about this, I mean let's put Barrichello and Coulthard, the oldest guys in F1, both combined have more wins than Alonso, and even more wins than Hakkinen, Rubens 9, David 13, anyway I'm not a numbers-man, but questions come to mind.

maybe we should think, how long it is a reasonable time to see if an F1 driver it's gonna make it or not?, Trulli has been in F1 for too long and never did anything, but at least he has the justification if he gets sacked that he has more than 30, but a guy like Klien who is not even 25, he's washed out, just because he drove a crappy Red Bull and Jaguar?, I Know I know F1 isn't about fairness but, come on.

Maybe that's the only thing Alonso and Kimi did wrong to F1, being so good so young...

[rlenis]

what are they doing in F1 ? lets see.

Barichello is having a ball beating Button
Trulli and Ralf are still trying to figure out who is better then the other while thinking they are the best drivers behind Alonso and Kimi.
DC is collecting a paycheck and just having fun traveling around.

[Erki]

F1 is just a means to sports and touringcars as that's where most of the ex F1 pilots go. Or NASCAR. Kinda lika a feeder series.

[jens]

Trulli has been in F1 for too long and never did anything, but at least he has the justification if he gets sacked that he has more than 30, but a guy like Klien who is not even 25, he's washed out, just because he drove a crappy Red Bull and Jaguar?, I Know I know F1 isn't about fairness but, come on.


As for "lack of achievements", then unlike other experienced guys (R. Schumacher, Barrichello, Fisichella and Coulthard) Trulli has never driven a car with championship title potential! That's why the full extent of his abilities hasn't come properly out during his career.

[trumperZ06]

F1 is just a means to sports and touringcars as that's where most of the ex F1 pilots go. Or NASCAR. Kinda lika a feeder series.

:D ;) That's ONE way of putting it !!!

[trumperZ06]

F1 is just a means to sports and touringcars as that's where most of the ex F1 pilots go. Or NASCAR. Kinda lika a feeder series.

;) That's ONE way of putting it !!! :D

[wedge]

what are they doing in F1 ? lets see.

Barichello is having a ball beating Button
Trulli and Ralf are still trying to figure out who is better then the other while thinking they are the best drivers behind Alonso and Kimi.
DC is collecting a paycheck and just having fun traveling around.

:rotflmao:

They belong in the good-quality-driver-but-nothing-special-who deserved-to-win-a-few-races category.

They were WDC contenders at the very most and were no match for Alonso, Schumi or Hakkinen in a WDC fight.

[Hawkmoon]

The question is not why these guys want to be in F1. That's a no-brainer. The question is why the teams want them in F1.

What is it that these grey-beards have that the baby-faced 20ish crowd don't have? Experience is the obvious answer but is has to be more than that. Trulli has won one race in 10 years of F1 racing. Fisichella has won 3. Why do big budget teams like Toyota and Renault keep hiring these guys when there are younger, faster and cheaper options available?

I think it's because these young guys might be fast and cheap but they're not better than the old guys. Atleast, not yet. Put it this way. If Montoya hadn't had a hissy fit and buggered off and if Kimi hadn't got sick of driving Mercedes-powered handgrenades then Hamilton would not be on the grid today. Nor would Kovalainen if Alonso had stuck with Renault.

The teams at the pointy end of the grid, with the odd exception, simply don't want to babysit a young driver. That's what the midfield and backmarker teams are for. The only reason Kimi got his drive with McLaren was because Hakkinen got bored and retired. I doubt ol' Ron would have replaced Coulthard with Raikkonen if Mika had stayed.

[truefan72]

I had to put my two cents in.

The reason "some" young drivers are capable of stepping right into F1 nowerdays has more to do with the drivers than the cars. Beleive me, with the exception of stick shifting ( which some might argue is a huge factor, and I won't challenge that) driving an F1 car today has gotten a bit more challenging than 15-20 years ago. With all the buttons on the steering wheel, the increased speed, the more precise braking, and all the communication, tire management, engine management, etc, driving an F1 car today basically requires more than just raw talent. The dedication of these drivers today and their 24/7/365 approach to the sport has groomed them into more proficient driving specimens than in the 70's and 80's and early 90's. Yes it may make them a bit more robotic and less instinctive ( but that's where the exceptional talents of Hamilton Alonso and Raikkonen come in) but they are infinately better prepared for driving an F1 car. The rigors of a full season from a physical, mental and experience factor is what, only driving in F1, they can learn.
...And that brings me to the Experienced drivers. I have absolutely no problem with an older driver racing in Formula 1. As long as they get the job done then more power to them. With the exception of Hamilton and sometimes Rosberg and Kubica, most of these young drivers have not shown me that they deserve a race seat aboove their senior counterparts. There are so many nuances in F1 that only expereince can provide. And in all honesty, they say that a race car drivers best years are between 30-40.
I personally don't want to see a bunch of junior, inexpereinced drivers running around circuits trying to learn them on Friday and then underperforming on Sunday. Bring them in slowly like they always did, nurture their career and prepare them adequately for the race seat as the older ones fade off. Out of all the older drivers out there, Only DC in my mind is about ready to be replaced, with barrichello to follow suit in a year or two. Until they go, they still provide valuable insight to the team and occasionaly harness the max out of the cars that some of the younger drivers might get frustrated with.

[greencroft]

I think the value of experience may change somewhat next year with the end of traction control.

[CharlieJ]

I think the value of experience may change somewhat next year with the end of traction control.
Then we'll see who the good old guys are - the ones who can remember what it's like not having traction control. It should be a good way of finding out just how good the young guys like Hamilton really are too. (I'd expect Lewis to be just as impressive, if not more so).

[raphael123]

Some of the drivers like Webber have warned the public not to expect the ban of traction control to change things much, if anything at all!!

I wouldn't get your hopes up. Apart from when it's a wet race, I don't think we will notice a big difference, but it's a step in the right direction for sure.

[DexDexter]

Barichello, coulthard,ralf,trulli, they race so many years,whats left to prove? waiting for the best team to catch them?no way and they know that...
they like publicity? they like money?they like driving?i see absolutely nothing to gain so many years ,ok they won some races but thats it! now what?


They want to drive in F1 cause they love driving, mind you that not everyone can be a champion. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsports, just being in F1 is already a huge thing for drivers. By your logic we would have English premiership with 2-3 teams since the rest of teams do not stand a chance.....why bother??

[GridGirl]

DC wouldnt have got a drive is Senna hadnt of died...

Schumacher got his chance when Bertrand Gachot attacked that taxi driver....

You can go on and on about why people have got drivesin F1. The key in my opinion is to be fast, have lost of money and be damn lucky!

[BeansBeansBeans]

You can go on and on about why people have got drivesin F1. The key in my opinion is to be fast, have lost of money and be damn lucky!

I agree. There's so much talent out there, that talent isn't enough. Many need a stroke of luck to get them into F1, or failing that, a lot of money.

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmmm.... the average age for drivers is getting younger in all series of racing.

The day of the grizzled veteran... with his experience and craftiness, is quickly passing. Youngsters today are starting in carts... sometimes before grade school. Before the age of 20... the good drivers have been identified and signed. The really good ones are just a step away from an F-1 ride.

IMO... we are now looking at F-1 drivers retiring at ~ 36 or being pushed out by a younger driver.

[Ian McC]

F1 is for the young then? Cobblers, they are there because they've earned the right.

[jso1985]

F1 is just a means to sports and touringcars as that's where most of the ex F1 pilots go. Or NASCAR. Kinda lika a feeder series.

you're a funny guy :laugh:

back on topic maybe it's that all "old" F1 drivers of this season are considered to be not WDC material so everyone is expecting to retire soon.
I don't think experienced drivers are no longer required in F1, just remember that M.Schumacher could have get any drive on any team this season if he wanted to and he's 38!, drivers with no future is what F1 no longer requires ;) (sorry Rubens!)

[V12]

To be honest I'm getting sick of this experienced driver bashing and the obsession with young drivers too, maybe it's because I'm approaching my mid 20s and I'll admit to being a little jealous of all these drivers as much as 5 years younger than me popping up all over the spot (a mid mid life crisis? lol), but I've grown up watching the likes of Rubens, DC, Ralf, Trulli and Fisi entering the sport. Are any of them truly outstanding drivers? No, but you only get maybe 4 or 5 of those every generation, they've been around F1 a while and have had some success, developed their personalities, and fans have developed a familiarity with them.

Of course you need new blood every season but we have that, and while the aforementioned drivers don't raise the same emotions as some of the more charismatic drivers of the past, I can still connect with them more than the latest robot-like teenager to be spat off one of the manufacturers' driver development production lines - no matter how talented they are.

[Ranger]

Age wouldn't be a factor if the driver was at or near the top of the grid. However if they are just mid-pack and have been in F1 for 10 years or more, that's when the questions are asked.

Yuji Ide was 31 when he got his F1 drive, yet nobody was saying how he should retire (we were just saying how he was crap).

I can't seem to remember everyone wanting Schumacher or Barrichello to retire in say, 2004, for example.

Marcus Gronholm in the WRC is a title contender and winning rounds at age 39. Paul Tracy is still regularly on the podium in ChampCar at the age of 38. Troy Bayliss won the World Superbike Championship and a MotoGP race last year aged 37.

Now if these drivers were regularly mid-grid and often out of the points then I'm sure they would be out of their sports as well.

I honestly don't think this is a problem in F1. If they beat their team-mates and do fairly well then they keep their drives. If not, they're replaced. Same for any driver of any age.

[wmcot]

They do a job they love and are paid hondsomely. If teams are still prepared to employ them, why on earth would they leave? Many teams see benefits in employing experienced drivers. Signing David Coulthard was, in my opinion, a very shrewd move by Red Bull.

I have to agree! I'd take one of their paychecks for driving an F1 car around all day (I'd even do it for half price!) Actually, I think the older drivers know how to develop a car better than many of the upcoming young drivers. A team ideally would probably want an experienced driver to develop the car and a young hotshot with blinding speed to race it. Most of the teams have to make a compromise since there aren't that many sure bets like Lewis Hamilton out there.

[Ian McC]

Well I think DC made is case today quite nicely ;)

[RWD]

I think DC showed us today why he is in F1. Shame his car/engine wasnt up to the job

[Mikeall]

Barichello, coulthard,ralf,trulli, they race so many years,whats left to prove? waiting for the best team to catch them?no way and they know that...
they like publicity? they like money?they like driving?i see absolutely nothing to gain so many years ,ok they won some races but thats it! now what?

What's with this attitude of thinking people should quit if they are no longer at the front of races. In your 30s you shouldn't be thinking about quitting your job. Red Bull, Honda or Toyota could all quite conceivably build a race winning car in the next year or two and they could end up champions. None of them have one a world championship so they still have personal targets to meet. Of course they love the driving and the money, who wouldn't? If all the old drivers quit it would just mean the new drivers wouldn't be able to prove themselves against the established stars.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Lets just think about it. You get paid millions of £'s to race the fastest, most hi-tech cars in the world. Why would you consider quitting? I think that DC and Reubens still think they can be WDC :\

[CharlieJ]

Well I think DC made is case today quite nicely ;)
Abso...****in'....lutely...!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

[truefan72]

good for dc today, but the problemw with him are those days are few and far between. If he showed that kind of fire all year long, I wouldn't be on him.