F1 historic Bits 'n' Piece's

[steveaki13]

I hope the mods are OK with this, but on quite a few threads in F1 forum we talk about moments and people from F1s past.

So I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people can post small things they remember from the past or ask about old drivers, cars, teams or even just great moments in F1's history when maybe a whole thread wouldn't be needed.

Or if someone suddenly remembers a driver from the past, they could mention it here rather than open a thread.

I have only watched F1 since 1991/92, but am researching now into F1's more distant past, so may have some questions and points to make.

I also think it should be OK for people to raise names or points from any point in F1's history as this thread has no real topic.

What do you guys think? :)

Two examples, firstly the main reason I thought of this thread is because I was watching an old race. Malaysia 2002 and I was talking to my father about Enrique Bernoldi.

He gets remembered most for his 2001 blocking of DC at Monaco, but in Malaysia 2002 after being past by Michael Schumacher he boldly slipstreamed him and repassed the schu. It made me chuckle.

Anyone got any other memories of Bernoldi.

Secondly we also talked about the lap record of Brands Hatch from the past. I found pole for the 1986 British GP to be a 1:06.
I assume this would be the quickest lap of Brands?

So memories of Bernoldi or Brands Hatch fastest laps.

Or anything else they would like to remind us of.

[anfield5]

Jean Alesi probably gave the most memorable moments in recent F1 history, not usually for things he did on the track (although he was a fantastic driver). The best memory of Alesi is this: 1997 Australian GP he apparently ran out of fuel and retired. The story was that he wanted to run a two stop race, the team had decided to run with 3 stops (remember that in '97 refuelling was in). Time came for the first stop and the Benetton team called him in, he ignored the call and kept on driving, the next lap came and the team implored him to stop, but he kept on going, the third time past the pits they demanded that he stop, but he still kept on driving, and half way round the lap his car ran dry, he simply climbed out and sat on the barriers next to the car and glared at it, with the most thunderously black look on his face. Nobody went near him and towards the end of the race he walked back towards the pit complex and without saying a word to anyone left the track.

[D-Type]

I hope the mods are OK with this, but on quite a few threads in F1 forum we talk about moments and people from F1s past.

So I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people can post small things they remember from the past or ask about old drivers, cars, teams or even just great moments in F1's history when maybe a whole thread wouldn't be needed.

Or if someone suddenly remembers a driver from the past, they could mention it here rather than open a thread.

~
This is fine by me. After all that's what the Motorsport History Forum is for!

The only thing I'll ask is please wait until one topic has run its course before introducing a new one. Otherwise it gets totally unmanageable and confusing

[steveaki13]

Jean Alesi probably gave the most memorable moments in recent F1 history, not usually for things he did on the track (although he was a fantastic driver). The best memory of Alesi is this: 1997 Australian GP he apparently ran out of fuel and retired. The story was that he wanted to run a two stop race, the team had decided to run with 3 stops (remember that in '97 refuelling was in). Time came for the first stop and the Benetton team called him in, he ignored the call and kept on driving, the next lap came and the team implored him to stop, but he kept on going, the third time past the pits they demanded that he stop, but he still kept on driving, and half way round the lap his car ran dry, he simply climbed out and sat on the barriers next to the car and glared at it, with the most thunderously black look on his face. Nobody went near him and towards the end of the race he walked back towards the pit complex and without saying a word to anyone left the track.

Yes I remember Murray commentating on it.
Here it is. Still makes me laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQN49SnvJ_o

I always thought Benetton were fast enough in 1997 to win more than the one race, but it seems Gerhard was getting past it (not taking away the German win) and Alesi as ever was just nuts. :crazy:

[steveaki13]

I hope the mods are OK with this, but on quite a few threads in F1 forum we talk about moments and people from F1s past.

So I thought it might be nice to have a thread where people can post small things they remember from the past or ask about old drivers, cars, teams or even just great moments in F1's history when maybe a whole thread wouldn't be needed.

Or if someone suddenly remembers a driver from the past, they could mention it here rather than open a thread.

~
This is fine by me. After all that's what the Motorsport History Forum is for!

The only thing I'll ask is please wait until one topic has run its course before introducing a new one. Otherwise it gets totally unmanageable and confusing

Good idea.

Ignore Bernoldi. :p

What about the Indy 500 being in the championship. It is always said by less informed people I guess (like me) that it was to make it feel completely global, but I mean was that the case? From reading up so far on 1950 and 51. There were no links to F1 I could see.

[D28]

steveaki13: "What about the Indy 500 being in the championship. It is always said by less informed people I guess (like me) that it was to make it feel completely global, but I mean was that the case? From reading up so far on 1950 and 51. There were no links to F1 I could see"


For a good account of the story see the links provided by DType: http://forix.autosport.com/8w/ferrari-i ... -1956.html (http://forix.autosport.com/8w/ferrari-indianapolis-1956.html)

True no European drivers qualified in those years, but there were tenuous links to some Grand Prix cars. 2 of the trio of Maserati 8CTFs imported just before the war qualified, albeit with Offy power. Other older European chassis attempted to get in the show.

[journeyman racer]

The only thing I can add to the Enrique Bernoldi story, was that he should've won BF3 one year in the Renaults, but let it slip and Mario Haberfeld won. He also was in a relationship with former tennis player Jelena Dokic.


Jean Alesi probably gave the most memorable moments in recent F1 history, not usually for things he did on the track (although he was a fantastic driver). The best memory of Alesi is this: 1997 Australian GP he apparently ran out of fuel and retired. The story was that he wanted to run a two stop race, the team had decided to run with 3 stops (remember that in '97 refuelling was in). Time came for the first stop and the Benetton team called him in, he ignored the call and kept on driving, the next lap came and the team implored him to stop, but he kept on going, the third time past the pits they demanded that he stop, but he still kept on driving, and half way round the lap his car ran dry, he simply climbed out and sat on the barriers next to the car and glared at it, with the most thunderously black look on his face. Nobody went near him and towards the end of the race he walked back towards the pit complex and without saying a word to anyone left the track.
Wait, so you're saying Alesi kept driving on because he was thinking he had more fuel due to thinking he was on a 2 stop strategy?

[anfield5]

The only thing I can add to the Enrique Bernoldi story, was that he should've won BF3 one year in the Renaults, but let it slip and Mario Haberfeld won. He also was in a relationship with former tennis player Jelena Dokic.


Jean Alesi probably gave the most memorable moments in recent F1 history, not usually for things he did on the track (although he was a fantastic driver). The best memory of Alesi is this: 1997 Australian GP he apparently ran out of fuel and retired. The story was that he wanted to run a two stop race, the team had decided to run with 3 stops (remember that in '97 refuelling was in). Time came for the first stop and the Benetton team called him in, he ignored the call and kept on driving, the next lap came and the team implored him to stop, but he kept on going, the third time past the pits they demanded that he stop, but he still kept on driving, and half way round the lap his car ran dry, he simply climbed out and sat on the barriers next to the car and glared at it, with the most thunderously black look on his face. Nobody went near him and towards the end of the race he walked back towards the pit complex and without saying a word to anyone left the track.
Wait, so you're saying Alesi kept driving on because he was thinking he had more fuel due to thinking he was on a 2 stop strategy?

No, he kept on driving because HE had wanted to race a two stop and he wasn't going to be told by the team that he should do a 3, so he decided to rebel against the team.
If memory serves he said to the press later something along the lines of "I told them I was going to stop twice, ask them why they didn't put enough fuel in the car." (or something to that effect)

[journeyman racer]

No, he kept on driving because HE had wanted to race a two stop and he wasn't going to be told by the team that he should do a 3, so he decided to rebel against the team.
If memory serves he said to the press later something along the lines of "I told them I was going to stop twice, ask them why they didn't put enough fuel in the car." (or something to that effect)
So he knew he'd run out of fuel?

[anfield5]

No, he kept on driving because HE had wanted to race a two stop and he wasn't going to be told by the team that he should do a 3, so he decided to rebel against the team.
If memory serves he said to the press later something along the lines of "I told them I was going to stop twice, ask them why they didn't put enough fuel in the car." (or something to that effect)
So he knew he'd run out of fuel?

Yes. Alesi was a very willful person, he also had the ability to sulk like no one I have ever seen, so when he told the team he wanted a 2 stop race and they refused he decided to show them who was in charge when it came to choosing the best strategy for a race.

[wedge]

So memories of Bernoldi or Brands Hatch fastest laps.

Bernoldi - I had to Google him because his name rung a bell

Brands Hatch fastest laps - I remember Johnny Herbert/Lotus featured on an edition of 'Record Breakers' by setting a new lap record.

[anfield5]

Memories of Bernoldi = errrmm, none. He drove for Arrows alongside HH Frentzen when the cars were orange and black and sponsored by orange. He was supposed to drive Champcars in 08, but Champcars stopped existing and his team Rocketsport didn't enter the IRL, he then drove for Conquest Racing instead and finished 15th at Indy.

Never threatened to score points in F1 and had 4 top 10 finishes.

I do know he had the awesome full name of Enrique Antônio Langue e Silvério de Bernoldi (try saying that with a mouth full of chips)

[journeyman racer]

I must say, 91 was the first season I followed from start to end. I really enjoyed it. oming off the back of 3 Senna/Prost head to head seasons, it's not really remembered as an all time great season, but it's worthy of being remembered well.



Does anybody know what football team Nigel Mansell goes for, if indeed he does go for a team?

[D-Type]

Given that he grew up in Birmingham, I expect that if Nigel Mansell supports any particular team it will be either Birmingham City or Aston Villa. But I don't really know the answer. The two autobiographies I have focus on racing and don't include personal details of that nature.

[journeyman racer]

What an anti-climax to see the last post was by D-Type, only to see the question wasn't answered! Yes, I 've already made the link with the Birmingham teams, but have had nothing confirmed yet. It's a thing I have with racing drivers, what teams they go for (any code), and it has bugged me for a while that I don't know this about Nigel. I know that Damon Hill and Lewis Hamilton go for Arsenal, Mark Webber for Sunderland, but Nige? Nothing. I've never gotten an impression he even likes it.

[anfield5]

The way Nigel moans and complains about everything in life, I would guess he is a referee supporter :)

I know he supported and sponsored the UK youth cycle team up until this year. But as for football, as far as I know he doesn't support any team, I have never found any reference to it, and no club seems to list him as a celebrity supporter.

[anfield5]

The way Nigel moans and complains about everything in life, I would guess he is a referee supporter :)

I know he supported and sponsored the UK youth cycle team up until this year. But as for football, as far as I know he doesn't support any team, I have never found any reference to it, and no club seems to list him as a celebrity supporter.

Until I found a reference to Nigel being an Exeter City fan http://www.famousfootballfans.com/2011/11/nigel-mansell.html

[journeyman racer]

That is tremendous work anfield! Tremendous! If I could like or positive rep your post, I would.

Exeter City? I would never have picked that.

[D-Type]

He had an interest in a karting centre and a golf course down Exeter way. Does he live near Exeter perhaps?

[journeyman racer]

He lives in Jersey.

[anfield5]

Adn He was born in Upton-on Seven (at the head of the Bristol Channel) near Worchester and that is quite a way North of Exeter.

[Don Capps]

What about the Indy 500 being in the championship. It is always said by less informed people I guess (like me) that it was to make it feel completely global, but I mean was that the case? From reading up so far on 1950 and 51. There were no links to F1 I could see.

The Contest Board of the American Automobile Association adopted the International Formula (AKA Formula 1) beginning with the 1948 season, with the proviso that the 3-liter supercharged engines be retained until there was a sufficient supply of 1.5-liter supercharged engines were available on a year-to-year basis; thanks to some not so subtle (bruising) American racing politics this, of course, never happened. Given that most of the cars participating in the National Championship series, to include the American round in the world championship -- the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes, were using unsupercharged engines of 4.5-liters, the same as in the regulations for the International Formula/Formula 1, by the way. The only two rounds of the 1952 and 1953 world championship run using cars conforming to Formula 1 were the two events at Indianapolis. So, from 1948 until the 1953 event, the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes events was, for all intents and purposes, a Formula 1 event.

Thanks to the usually toxic combination of American and CSI racing politics, from 1954 until 1960, the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes event in the world championship was run to its own formula, which was perfectly acceptable under the world championship regulations of the time, the requirement that the world championship rounds having to be run to Formula 1 not taking effect until the 1961 season.

In addition, it should be noted that the AAA Contest Board adopted the CSI International Formula for its National Championship events beginning with the 1938 International 500 Mile Sweepstakes race. Indeed, that is how the sliding weight/displacement formula for the formula was re-discovered, from an entry form for an American championship event.

So, it might be suggested that there are some links should one take the time to look.

[D-Type]

I have to disagree with you on this one, Don. Once the AAA decided to allow the 3 litre supercharged cars to compete, the '500' cannot be considered a Formula 1 race even if the majority of the entries conformed to the 4½ litre unsupercharged limit.

By the way, did the AAA apply the minimum weight vs capacity scale post war?

[Don Capps]

I have to disagree with you on this one, Don. Once the AAA decided to allow the 3 litre supercharged cars to compete, the '500' cannot be considered a Formula 1 race even if the majority of the entries conformed to the 4½ litre unsupercharged limit.

By the way, did the AAA apply the minimum weight vs capacity scale post war?

From what I have found, it is very doubtful that there was much hand-wringing regarding the issue at the time, the important point being that the USA (the AAA Contest Board) was attempting to stay aligned with the CSI and its new International Formula. Keep in mind that with the rare exception of an interloper from time to time, US national championship events from 1948 until 1953 were all run as Formula 1 events.

During the 1946 season, the full sliding displacement/weight scale formula applied, but only the maximum engine displacement limits were applied during the 1947 season.

[D-Type]

Whether the original intention of the AAA had been to comply with the International Formula (aka Formula 1), if cars not compliant with the Formula limits were eligible the race was no longer a Formula 1 race, even if it was contested entirely by 4½ litre cars.

Would you consider midget races between 1954 and 1960 to be Formula 1 races?

[FAL]

He had an interest in a karting centre and a golf course down Exeter way. Does he live near Exeter perhaps?

He did live at Woodbury (where his golf course was - and not a million miles from Dunkeswell kart track) near Exeter for a time. Probably after his income had reduced enough to obviate the need to live in the Isle of Mann and before it went up again sufficiently to drive him offshore again?
All is now revealed as to why Keith the seal (you have to watch UK Midlands TV to understand...) reached Bewdley - he thought Upton on Severn was the head of navigation of the Severn! (its a long way from the sea/Severn Estuary).

It's perhaps worth mentioning that many (most?) UK motorsport amateur competitors utterly loath football/soccer. It's mostly to do with the publicity it got/gets when motorsport doesn't and probably a bit of a class thing too. Only in later years has football (soccer and rugby league but not rugby union) become "mainstream" in the UK as opposed to being a "working class" sport. UK Motorsport, on the other hand, has an image of "middle/upper class" participation. That goes for much of Europe too - but not the USA, where most motorsport is considered by some there as a "downmarket" sport like baseball.

[Don Capps]

Whether the original intention of the AAA had been to comply with the International Formula (aka Formula 1), if cars not compliant with the Formula limits were eligible the race was no longer a Formula 1 race, even if it was contested entirely by 4½ litre cars.

Would you consider midget races between 1954 and 1960 to be Formula 1 races?

Sorry, Duncan, but you seem to be wasting my time.

[D-Type]

I disagree. Trying to perpetuate the myth that the Indianapolis 500 was a Formula 1 race is wasting everyone's time.

[Don Capps]

I disagree. Trying to perpetuate the myth that the Indianapolis 500 was a Formula 1 race is wasting everyone's time.


Well, I certainly don't want to waste anybody's precious time here.

[D-Type]

Let's get this straight and consider a few facts that are not disputed.

Over the years the 'formula' for Indianapolis cars and the 'formula' for Grand Prix cars were deliberately aligned. But there were times when they differed significantly. There were also times when the capacity limits aligned but the bodywork regulations did not.
The Indianapolis 500 was one of the rounds in the [manufacturers'] World Championship in the 1920s.
It was also a round in the Drivers' World Championship from 1950 to 1960 but not for the Manufacturers' World Championship from 1958 to 1960.
The AAA did try to align their championship, and the Indianapolis 500, with the new International Formula from 1948 (Formula 1). But they gave way to pressure from some entrants and admitted 3 litre supercharged cars.

So much for facts. Once the regulations for the Indianapolis 500 admitted cars that had engine sizes in excess of that permitted by Formula 1, it ceased to be a Formula 1 race. It is just plain wrong to try and argue otherwise.

On a similar note, in 1952 and 1953 the grand prix races qualifying for the divers' World Championship were run for cars complying with the International Formula 2. But they didn't become 'honorary Formula 1 cars' - they were still Formula 2 cars.

[Mintexmemory]

It's perhaps worth mentioning that many (most?) UK motorsport amateur competitors utterly loath football/soccer. It's mostly to do with the publicity it got/gets when motorsport doesn't and probably a bit of a class thing too. Only in later years has football (soccer and rugby league but not rugby union) become "mainstream" in the UK as opposed to being a "working class" sport. UK Motorsport, on the other hand, has an image of "middle/upper class" participation. That goes for much of Europe too - but not the USA, where most motorsport is considered by some there as a "downmarket" sport like baseball.

Woooah, beware of sweeping generalisations.
UK track racing has a middle / upper class, maybe urban, image.
Rallying has had a predominantly rural, classless following. Even a number of the wealthier exponents delight in a certain absence of 'couth' ;)
Most of my friends and acquaintances that are into motorsport also have local soccer alleigances and have done so for many years.
It is fair to say that those who are into track racing often eschew any other sporting past time.

Now if you are talking about the USA there are two distinct streams of development - the rich euro-phile Californian scene and the NASCAR / County fair dirt race, yee-hah schtick. Gurney, Revson, Gregory et al were hardly 'downmarket' To this day LM (and previously Can-AM) in the states is very much more refined than NASCAR with Indy falling somewhere between. Though,clearly NASCAR has the major following to support your statement. I was always under the impression that Baseball had a classless following given the amount of literature and cinema devoted to it.

[FAL]

Your picture is the exception, not mine. Don't confuse spectators of road rallying in the depths of Wales with participants in rallying in the UK in general. The duffel coat/bobble hat rallying image of the 50s England concealed a whole raft of university educated navigators (at a time when few went to uni).
The rest of Europe is even further towards rallying being in the same monied category as racing.
Have you lived in the USA? Have you experienced the appalled expressions, particularly in the populous/opinion forming North East, if you admit to "driving race cars"? I have.
In 47 years around UK rallying, I can't think of one friend/aquaintance who didn't hate football.

[Mintexmemory]

Your picture is the exception, not mine. Don't confuse spectators of road rallying in the depths of Wales with participants in rallying in the UK in general. The duffel coat/bobble hat rallying image of the 50s England concealed a whole raft of university educated navigators (at a time when few went to uni).

50s England was a very long time ago, when rallying was little more than a gentleman's excuse for a long distance thrash with a bloody good dinner at the end of it. So no wonder that the navs were uni-educated. TImes have changed and rallying, post Mini and Escort, is probably the most egalatarian form of motor sport (banger racing omitted) -all you need is cash (to quote the Ruttles).


Have you lived in the USA? Have you experienced the appalled expressions, particularly in the populous/opinion forming North East, if you admit to "driving race cars"? I have.
Ah well, tennis , golf, polo, Americas Cup yachting and long-distance snobbery are hard to displace as the main stream sporting activities of WASP culture. Might I suggest that the NE of the States is rather more insular than Californian society - Mr Capps an opinion please.



In 47 years around UK rallying, I can't think of one friend/aquaintance who didn't hate football.
In 45 years around UK Motorsport (only 37 rallying, so I've not gone as high up the wall there) I have yet to come across a friend / acquaintance who does hate football. Some had no particular interest, but that's a different matter. Perhaps we just gravitate towards like-minded people.

[FAL]

To get back to the topic, instead of playing along with your attempts to score points, I don't even have relatives, friends or acquaintances OUTSIDE rallying, leave alone inside, who like football (oh, sorry, there is one, met through speed hillclimbing...). It's a myth promoted by the media that everyone in nthe UK likes to watch 22 bags of wind kicking around another bag of wind.

I'm sure those who struggle to re-create 50s rallying via RoTT, Le Jog etc. will be pleased to learn you think culinary results are the point of the exercise. Rallying DID once move away from elitism but it's ludicrous to suggest it hasn't long ago (30 years at least?) drifted back into a sport (like circuit racing and even the urban short oval and rural autograss worlds) for those with far too much money to burn.

[steveaki13]

I may have missed something obvious, but I was watching the 2002 European Grand Prix, it came a few races after Austria 02. The infamous Ferrari switch. The Ferrari team were just about to go into a hearing about the race in Austria and messing up podium procedure.

Anyway in Europe 2002 Barrichello finally won a race. In case no one remembers I will just remind you of what happened.
Barrichello & Schumi were 3rd and 4th on the grid behind the two Williams. They ran a 2 stop strategy and passed the Williams in the first couple of laps, they were 2 seconds a lap quicker than anyone else and were soon 40 seconds up the road.
Schumi then lost 10 seconds by spinning. By the end Barrichello won by 0.2 from Schumi.

I was wondering when re watching it if all was as it seems.

I mean with said hearing coming up, the Ferrari team would probably like Barrichello to win a race, and I was wondering if Schumi spun it on purpose?

I mean it was just before a stop and I wonder whether as Schumi looked quicker, whether to save him getting ahead during the stops if Rubens had a little problem that Schumi spun to give Rubens some breathing space.

He then gained back the 10 seconds so was definitely quicker and whether that was a sneaky way to make sure of the 1-2 and make it look convincing.

The fact that Nurburgring only had 2 run off's then and Schumi spun off onto one of them also made me wonder. After all it was an uncharacteristic error from Michael.

In a similar way to Chinese Qualifying 2004 when he spun to start last.

*Cue you all telling me this is a well known fact and that I have completely missed it.

[anfield5]

I may have missed something obvious, but I was watching the 2002 European Grand Prix, it came a few races after Austria 02. The infamous Ferrari switch. The Ferrari team were just about to go into a hearing about the race in Austria and messing up podium procedure.

Anyway in Europe 2002 Barrichello finally won a race. In case no one remembers I will just remind you of what happened.
Barrichello & Schumi were 3rd and 4th on the grid behind the two Williams. They ran a 2 stop strategy and passed the Williams in the first couple of laps, they were 2 seconds a lap quicker than anyone else and were soon 40 seconds up the road.
Schumi then lost 10 seconds by spinning. By the end Barrichello won by 0.2 from Schumi.

I was wondering when re watching it if all was as it seems.

I mean with said hearing coming up, the Ferrari team would probably like Barrichello to win a race, and I was wondering if Schumi spun it on purpose?

I mean it was just before a stop and I wonder whether as Schumi looked quicker, whether to save him getting ahead during the stops if Rubens had a little problem that Schumi spun to give Rubens some breathing space.

He then gained back the 10 seconds so was definitely quicker and whether that was a sneaky way to make sure of the 1-2 and make it look convincing.

The fact that Nurburgring only had 2 run off's then and Schumi spun off onto one of them also made me wonder. After all it was an uncharacteristic error from Michael.

In a similar way to Chinese Qualifying 2004 when he spun to start last.

*Cue you all telling me this is a well known fact and that I have completely missed it.

Possibly too elaborate to be a purposeful plot. Team order were banned at the time, but there has never been anything stopping one driver from intentionally allowing a team mate to win. It was perfectly legal for Schumi to wave Ruebens past, if it was his doing and not an instruction from the team, so if Ruebens had lost out in a pit stop Schuimi could easily have let him back past without making look as obvious as pulling over and waving him through. But who really knows.....?

[steveaki13]

Team Orders were not banned in 2002. They became banned at the beginning of 2003 in response to Austria 2002 and the switch. Nothing like team orders had ever been banned before 2002, as F1 was in its traditional motorsport time line. Only 2003 and after have all the rule tweaks and changes happened.

The race in question was only a couple after the legendary switch. I think Rubens victory at Nurburgring was very timely as it came days before the hearing over the Austria-Gate

[anfield5]

Team Orders were not banned in 2002. They became banned at the beginning of 2003 in response to Austria 2002 and the switch. Nothing like team orders had ever been banned before 2002, as F1 was in its traditional motorsport time line. Only 2003 and after have all the rule tweaks and changes happened.

The race in question was only a couple after the legendary switch. I think Rubens victory at Nurburgring was very timely as it came days before the hearing over the Austria-Gate

Quite correct with the dates Steve (oops :mad: ) they were merely frowned upon after Austria. Which was silly as F1 is a team sport. I agree that it was amazingly coincidental that Ruebens won the German race, but I still don't think that even a driver of Schumi's ability would spin intentionally, but as I said who knows? On a different forum I used to be on I was one of many who insisted Piquet Jnr absolutely didn't intentionally crash in Singapore - so what would I know?

[steveaki13]

On a different forum I used to be on I was one of many who insisted Piquet Jnr absolutely didn't intentionally crash in Singapore - so what would I know?

I don't think anyone thought that was the case until stuff started coming out some time later. Its one of the most shameful and horrible moments in F1 history. I for one didn't believe it until it became pretty clear. :(

[anfield5]

Quite. Let's hope Piquet really junior (Pedro - Nelson Snr's youngest son) has more integrity and common sense. He was in NZ this summer to race in the Toyota Racing Series and did very well considering he is only 15, finishing close to the top ten in all 6 of his races

[journeyman racer]

I just obtained a copy of an Australian motorsport yearbook, for the 1974 season, which includes F1. It's interesting to read something from that long ago, in somewhat present context. My first observation is the idea of adding the title sponsor to the teams name, seemed to be in vogue for that year.

I've just gotten to reading the first race report from Argentina. Bad luck Carlos Reutemann. It would've been a massive let down to dominate a whole race anywhere, at anytime, only to have overheating problems cause you to lose the lead with a couple of laps to go. For it to happen at your home race, with your first win on the line, would've been a huge blow to take for yourself, and the crowd.

For someone who was way before my time, Reutemann is an interesting driver to judge. To me, he seems to be one of the few who can be considered an "Uncrowned champ". Meaning the quality of his driving and performances were sufficient for long enough, that he can be considered equal to many of those that had crossed the line of becoming champ. Including those he was racing against.

Check out the form of Denny Hulme! He won the 74 Argentinian GP. That means his last two wins were second/last lap robberies of the hometown hero, who'd dominated the race til that point. 73 Swedish GP at the expense of Ronnie Petersen, being the other one. Add that the knowledge he won the 67 German GP when Dan Gurney's Eagle broke down late in the race, while leading by light years. Nice work Denny!

[D-Type]

I'm confused - Who was the title sponsor in 1974? I can think of several team sponsors and a couple of race sponsors, but not a title sponsor for the FIA Formula 1 World Championship.

[journeyman racer]

"Title sponsor" as in lead sponsor for the team. Reading this, it appears to me that the presence of sponsorship became more prominent then.

[D-Type]

I see, you mean a season-long "Team Sponsor" rather than a "Title Sponsor" like the Aurora British F1 Championship or single race sponsorship of a team.

The development of sponsorship merits its own thread as there's so much that can be said.

[journeyman racer]

No opinion on Carlos Reutemann D-Type?

[D-Type]

I missed that reference. That's the problem with multi-topic posts - and threads! There was a long thread about Reutemann, either here or on another forum. The conclusion was that he is an enigmatic character who could be brilliant on his day, but prone to having "off-days"