Indycars will start turning right at Indy?

[Rex Monaco]

This is one way to remove all of the remaining prestige of the Indy 500 forever.


IndyCar to test on Indianapolis road course, considering 2014 race - IndyCar news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109296)
"IndyCar will test on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway road course in the coming weeks ahead of the track's possible addition to the 2014 calendar."

[call_me_andrew]

Yeah, the Daytona 500 had so much more prestige when it was the only the only race at the track.

[garyshell]

Oh no. Mercy me. A giant sink hole will open up in the infield and swallow up the entire facility. We're all gonna' die!!

Gary

[FIAT1]

Slow, ugly, spec bumpertoilets on the joke of the infield going left or the right doesn't make the difference. I wonder how many supporters here will actually buy the ticket and make the trip twice to Indy next May as it's going to be hard to choose between the two. More tv doesn't hurt I guess,therefore go for it.

[heliocastroneves#3]

Slow, ugly, spec bumpertoilets
Never heard bumpertoilets before, you made me laugh XD

[Rex Monaco]

Yeah, the Daytona 500 had so much more prestige when it was the only the only race at the track.

NASCAR doesn't run the road course at Daytona. So your analogy is completely unlike Indycars running the road course at Indy.

[Rex Monaco]

Oh no. Mercy me. A giant sink hole will open up in the infield and swallow up the entire facility. We're all gonna' die!!

Gary

If nobody is there when the sink hole opens up, will we all die? Or will we all breath a sigh of relief that patient has finally been laid to rest?

[garyshell]

If nobody is there when the sink hole opens up, will we all die? Or will we all breath a sigh of relief that patient has finally been laid to rest?

Much ado about nothing. I just don't see this idea in anyway as taking away anything from the Indy 500. Maybe YOU want to see the patient die, but don't suppose for a moment that "we" share your thoughts.

Gary

[Rex Monaco]

Much ado about nothing. I just don't see this idea in anyway as taking away anything from the Indy 500. Maybe YOU want to see the patient die, but don't suppose for a moment that "we" share your thoughts.

Gary


If you don't care about maintaining the prestige of the Indy 500, then the Speedway won't either. And thus we continue our downward spiral.

[garyshell]

Much ado about nothing. I just don't see this idea in anyway as taking away anything from the Indy 500. Maybe YOU want to see the patient die, but don't suppose for a moment that "we" share your thoughts.

Gary


If you don't care about maintaining the prestige of the Indy 500, then the Speedway won't either. And thus we continue our downward spiral.

Don't put words into my mouth. I said I do NOT think this in anyway takes away anything from the Indy 500. I think you are wrong in assuming that it does.

Gary

[Anubis]

What's the problem? I'm not a fan of the infield layout as it stands, but that doesn't mean it's an unreasonable idea. Aggregate the points from the two and have a "King of Indy", maybe stage it later in the season to keep interest up if the championship is otherwise decided. In the modern age, using an asset so infrequently is crazy (ask Athens). Unless the track can find someone with bottomless pockets to fund operations in perpetuity, which is a far bigger risk to long term security than any worries about loss of prestige, it has to move into the modern age. Prestige is nice, but only if it adds to the bottom line. It's also far too often conflated with history. Singapore is a prestige venue for F1, yet it has minimal history. Conversely, the Hungaroring (or Estoril, or Magny Cours, or even Montreal) has far more history, yet no prestige whatsoever. Being old doesn't give a venue the right to ignore market forces. If the market decides Indy as is (facilities, business case, investment potential etc) is no longer viable, it's no longer viable. As the revenue dries up, maintaining the facility becomes ever more expensive until all those concerned decide to cut their losses and walk away, at which point you have a history and little else, save probably a new shopping mall or a housing development with prestige street names. Perhaps a museum if you're lucky. Ask Brooklands.

[call_me_andrew]

NASCAR doesn't run the road course at Daytona. So your analogy is completely unlike Indycars running the road course at Indy.

No, but they race on the oval twice. Would that work better for you?

[bugeyedgomer]

Don't put words into my mouth. I said I do NOT think this in anyway takes away anything from the Indy 500. I think you are wrong in assuming that it does.

Gary

This will only further demonstrate how little people care for Indycar and show that they could line up 33 Priuses on the Sunday before Memorial Day and have the same turn out. Indycar on the road course is like Indycar on Versus

[garyshell]

This will only further demonstrate how little people care for Indycar and show that they could line up 33 Priuses on the Sunday before Memorial Day and have the same turn out. Indycar on the road course is like Indycar on Versus


Maybe you and Fiat1 read it that way. You state it as if it were a fact. I and others see it as Indycar's attempt to pump some attention and interest into the sport. Indycar on the road course is a second opportunity to generate revenue for a track that obviously needs the revenue, and an opportunity to garner some buzz in the media. The family kissed Bernie's ass and did a huge, i.e. EXPENSIVE, makeover of the facility, paid him an even more huge sanctioning fee only to have him effectively walk away before they had a chance to recoup the investment. I see no problem with them trying to find a way to make some money.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

Maybe you and Fiat1 read it that way. You state it as if it were a fact. I and others see it as Indycar's attempt to pump some attention and interest into the sport. Indycar on the road course is a second opportunity to generate revenue for a track that obviously needs the revenue, and an opportunity to garner some buzz in the media. The family kissed Bernie's ass and did a huge, i.e. EXPENSIVE, makeover of the facility, paid him an even more huge sanctioning fee only to have him effectively walk away before they had a chance to recoup the investment. I see no problem with them trying to find a way to make some money.

Gary

The family can't market a fur coat to an Inuit. The road course and the rounded rectangle combine to make a suckass road race.

THey ain't gone to invest any of the proceeds into the facility, it will still decay. Twiddling thumbs til '16

[garyshell]

The family can't market a fur coat to an Inuit. The road course and the rounded rectangle combine to make a suckass road race.

THey ain't gone to invest any of the proceeds into the facility, it will still decay.

Again you state this as if it were fact. If your assertions are true, then its time to padlock the place. Oh wait, that's exactly what you want to happen, right?

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

It would only matter what I want if I had the keys.

[bugeyedgomer]

If you had been an Indycar fan for more than 6 months, you would know that what you or any other fan wants is immaterial

[garyshell]

If you had been an Indycar fan for more than 6 months, you would know that what you or any other fan wants is immaterial

Loose the patronizing tone. You have no idea how long I have been an Indycar or Indy 500 fan.

Gary

[FIAT1]

Maybe you and Fiat1 read it that way. I see no problem with them trying to find a way to make some money.

Gary

Correct, road race on crap track with slow ugly bumper car and making money somehow doesn't sound right ,but I did say go for it. I hope it works, but lets be real. RA on labor day weekend would be much better investment in my opinion.

[bugeyedgomer]

Loose the patronizing tone. You have no idea how long I have been an Indycar or Indy 500 fan.

GaryIt would only matter what you wanted if you had the keys

[zako85]

Why not? This is not a bad idea honestly. Move this towards the end of season, in September or October maybe. I am not a fan of rovals, but this sounds better than typical street course. They should try every track possible and pick the winners, financially speaking.

[Rex Monaco]

It turns out that this lame idea is being proposed in order to fix what the megalomaniac broke.

Mark Miles clarifies IMS road course stance - Racer.com (http://www.racer.com/mark-miles-clarifies-ims-road-course-stance/article/309726/)
“We only had a few thousand people on [Indianapolis 500] opening day this year and we keep doing the same things and it's not working.”

Then stop doing what you are doing, as that is obviously the cause of the problem. It's way past time to bring back diversity in the field and allow manufactures to run the Indy 500 only.

[call_me_andrew]

There's no reason to run the 500 only!

Audi always wins at Le Mans because they have the rest of the season to use as a test sessoin.

[heliocastroneves#3]

Americans love ovals right? Why going to add another road course event...

[FIAT1]

Americans love ovals right? ..

No! Do you watch these races? Do you see empty stands? Even with cheapest tickets in any sport IndyCAR is not appealing.

[Rex Monaco]

There's no reason to run the 500 only!

Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.

[garyshell]

Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.

Please explain how this brings prestige back to the Indy 500? I just don't see the logic. Somehow not allowing a second race at the track makes the 500 more prestigious? Gee if that works, lets talk about having three more oval races there and then say no to them too and add even more instantaneous prestige. We can bring it back to its 1960's glory overnight. Brilliant!

And I have no idea at all what the second sentence is trying to say at all.

Gary

[Rex Monaco]

Please explain how this brings prestige back to the Indy 500? I just don't see the logic. Somehow not allowing a second race at the track makes the 500 more prestigious? Gee if that works, lets talk about having three more oval races there and then say no to them too and add even more instantaneous prestige. We can bring it back to its 1960's glory overnight. Brilliant!

And I have no idea at all what the second sentence is trying to say at all.

Gary

Didn't you warn someone else in this thread to loose the patronizing tone? Your own snarky tone does not give me any incentive to spend 30+ minutes writing a well thought out response.

And didn't you also tell me not to put words in your mouth? So please show me where I said, "We can bring it back to its 1960's glory overnight." The prestige of the Indy 500 was damaged with over a decade worth of poor decision making. It's going to take at least a decade of good decision making to restore it.

The second sentence is really very easy, when you read it in context:


There's no reason to run the 500 only!

Audi always wins at Le Mans because they have the rest of the season to use as a test sessoin.


Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.

[Rex Monaco]

No, but they race on the oval twice. Would that work better for you?

It's still an apples to bananas comparison. Daytona doesn't hold 2 major NASCAR races during the month of February.

If NASCAR ever made that recommendation...well we know that NASCAR values to prestige of the Daytona 500 and they would never make such a suggestion.

[garyshell]

Didn't you warn someone else in this thread to loose the patronizing tone? Your own snarky tone does not give me any incentive to spend 30+ minutes writing a well thought out response.

And didn't you also tell me not to put words in your mouth? So please show me where I said, "We can bring it back to its 1960's glory overnight." The prestige of the Indy 500 was damaged with over a decade worth of poor decision making. It's going to take at least a decade of good decision making to restore it.

The second sentence is really very easy, when you read it in context:


Snarky <> patronizing. I have never told anyone to loose the snarky tone, not once. Also, I never said that you thought that it could be brought back to the 1960's glory.

Seeing the two sentences about Audi in context, now I understand what you were saying.

Gary

[garyshell]

It's still an apples to bananas comparison. Daytona doesn't hold 2 major NASCAR races during the month of February.

If NASCAR ever made that recommendation...well we know that NASCAR values to prestige of the Daytona 500 and they would never make such a suggestion.


Honest question, has there been a suggestion to run the Indy road course in May? I thought the talk was of doing it at or near the end of the season. Running it in May would indeed take away from the 500.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

Yeah, the Daytona 500 had so much more prestige when it was the only the only race at the track.

Daytona has a strong series behind it. Indycar only has the one race.

[Rex Monaco]

Honest question, has there been a suggestion to run the Indy road course in May?

In the first paragraph of the second article I posted in this thread:
"Mark Miles swears he's not trying to trample on tradition by having two races next May, he simply wants to try and enhance the month."

From the second paragraph of the same article:
“I want to protect the Indianapolis 500 but we need to look at what we can do to help the race and IndyCar. We need make more out of the month and I don't see how starting off with a road race could hurt it.”

And so on:
"The race would likely fall on Saturday, May 10, to avoid tempting fate on Mother's Day and it's possible it could be a double-header with the new United SportsCar Racing series."

[bugeyedgomer]

Americans love ovals right? Why going to add another road course event...

St. Pete wants to be a double double

[Rex Monaco]

Please explain how this brings prestige back to the Indy 500? I just don't see the logic. Somehow not allowing a second race at the track makes the 500 more prestigious? Gee if that works, lets talk about having three more oval races there and then say no to them too and add even more instantaneous prestige. We can bring it back to its 1960's glory overnight. Brilliant!

Show me where I stated that NOT holding a road race would bring prestige back to the Indy 500? You can't, because I didn't. I said adding a road race would remove all the prestige that is left. Do you understand that distinction?

If not, then let me simplify it for you so you can understand. If the glass is half full then all you have to do to preserve whats left is not spill anymore of it. But the act of not spilling any further liquid does not add more liquid to the glass. It merely preserves the liquid you have left. Now do you understand?

The problem with the Indy 500 is that the megalomaniac poured out half of the water during his failed experiment. The trick for the new leadership is to not to spill anymore water, while figuring out how to add the lost water back into the glass.

The month of May became the month of May, not because a "Bill France", "P.T. Barnum" or "Clabber Girl" thought of a better way to put on a better show. It evolved into the month of May to accommodate the amount of entries that were drawn to the race because of the prestige of winning the event. That prestige brought teams, drivers and manufacturers from around the world who had a dream to win the Indy 500.

To me the series isn't important at all. The race (and successive series) have been sanctioned by AAA, then USAC, then CART, then the IRL and now Indycar. Indycar could die tomorrow with little to no negative effect at all, if a new series quickly took it's place as in the past.

So I don't place any value on saving this new sanctioning body from failure. There are plenty of other sanctioning bodies with much more experience and professionalism that could do the job.

What's of paramount importance to me is saving the remaining prestige of the Indy 500 and restoring that which has been squandered by poor decision making and short sightedness. But that requires some changes to the entrant rules for the Indy 500. And adding a road race during the month of May, is not the rule change that is required. That only shows that the leadership does not understand the problem.

[garyshell]

Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.


Please explain how this brings prestige back to the Indy 500?


Show me where I stated that NOT holding a road race would bring prestige back to the Indy 500? You can't, because I didn't. I said adding a road race would remove all the prestige that is left. Do you understand that distinction?

It was right there in the very first sentence of the post I replied to. Of course, I will readily admit I was assuming your original message was intended to have the word "not" in it since you've been against the idea from the onset.

Gary

[Rex Monaco]

It was right there in the very first sentence of the post I replied to. Of course, I will readily admit I was assuming your original message was intended to have the word "not" in it since you've been against the idea from the onset.

Gary

Context, Gary, context.

My post purposely contained this quote, since it was the one that I was replying to:

There's no reason to run the 500 only!

And this was my reply:

Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it.

See how context adds clarity? Try reading my posts just as they are written including the quotes. Not that I don't make mistakes. But I do try to mean what I say and say what I mean.

[garyshell]

There's no reason to run the 500 only!


Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it.


See how context adds clarity.

Yep, with that context it is clear you did not say "NOT holding a road race would bring prestige back to the Indy 500". You said "Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it" [to be the only race at 16th and Georgetown]. Maybe to you there is some nuanced difference in those two statements. If there is it escapes me.

Gary

Note: Bracketed text added to quote for clarity per http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/14300/how-to-add-contextualizing-text-to-a-quotation

[Rex Monaco]

Maybe to you there is some nuanced difference in those two statements.

Back to context, I was replying to this statement (posted in it's entirety):

There's no reason to run the 500 only!

Audi always wins at Le Mans because they have the rest of the season to use as a test sessoin.

I might be wrong, but it seemed as if Andrew was speaking about the ability of a team to only run at the Indy 500, to which I responded (also posted here in it's entirety):


Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow it. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.

As you can see, it's not about nuance. It's about keeping up with the conversations that are taking place.

[Rex Monaco]

I'll fill in the gaps for you here:

Andrew: There's no reason to run the 500 only [and not the rest of the series]! Audi always wins at Le Mans because they have the rest of the season to use as a test sessoin.

Me: Bringing prestige back to the Indy 500 is enough of a reason to allow [running only at Indy 500 and not the rest of the series]. And like Audi at Le Mans it might lead to more participation in Indycar.

[nigelred5]

Americans love ovals right? Why going to add another road course event...

debatable. I can take or leave quite a few of them. From recent attendance figures, i'm not alone.

[nigelred5]

It's still an apples to bananas comparison. Daytona doesn't hold 2 major NASCAR races during the month of February.

If NASCAR ever made that recommendation...well we know that NASCAR values to prestige of the Daytona 500 and they would never make such a suggestion.

Well, actually they do.

[Rex Monaco]

Well, actually they do.

I wouldn't call the non-points Bud Shoot-Out (or whatever they call it now) a 'major' NASCAR race.

That said, I'd much rather see shoot out style sprint race than a full fledged road race at the Speedway in the month of May.

[bugeyedgomer]

Doug Boles: Tearing up road course within 10 days, a little redesign & repaving.

[bugeyedgomer]

Running counter-clockwise on the road course
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XQinbPCc9w

Running clockwise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k-mp5SdHPk

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maybe you and Fiat1 read it that way. I see no problem with them trying to find a way to make some money.

Gary

Correct, road race on crap track with slow ugly bumper car and making money somehow doesn't sound right ,but I did say go for it. I hope it works, but lets be real. RA on labor day weekend would be much better investment in my opinion.

For a guy who supposedly likes Indycars, you have an awful opinion of them...

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the idea is a bad one if they don't do it in the fall, but I also think I can understand why they would be tempted. They need the revenue to keep the doors open. It is why I am not overly bent out of shape. At this point, they have little left to lose. I think the idea wont work, but hey, I will watch. I like Indycar. Would I like it if the series was opened up to more manufacturers and the rules were more open? Hell ya...but economics have dictated the mess the series is in, and that goes back to the split. It always does....

[methanolHuffer]

It all depends on how much more disappointment the series can stand for.

They can dump a lot into promoting an Indy road course and not have it attract the locals - not a big deal - but if people do not come from all around, it might be a little embarrassing. I'd rather they try it than not at all. Take the chance.

In fact, if I had any say, I'd love to see the facility used for competition every weekend of the year. Enduro karts, SCCA divisions of all kinds, Historics, Invitationals, Tuner meets, etc... heck, groom snow pack for snow mobiles in the winter for all I care. Just keep it going. It doesn't have to be overly formal to be really cool.

If IMS wants to be a recognized as a center for motorsport, a trio of races isn't going to cut it.

[Doc Austin]

Much ado about nothing.
What else did you expect on the internet?


Maybe YOU want to see the patient die, but don't suppose for a moment that "we" share your thoughts.

How sad for those people who have nothing better to do with their days than hope to see racing fail.

[champcarray]

I saw Graham's POV pic driving the wrong way on the front straight. It is certainly odd to see, event though I watched one of the US GPs that was held there.

[nigelred5]

Well, according to a fellow poster on another forum who visited IMS recently, the portions of the road course between the oval and either end of Hulman Blvd. (the infield straight) have been removed, but no sign of stakes or a regrading, assuming this means what ammounts to a complete reconfiguration of the infield road course. Still awaiting photographic confirmation.

[Rex Monaco]

Foyt against Indy road course race

"In my own opinion, I would hate to see that because Indianapolis 500 has been like the Kentucky Derby," he said. "It's a legendary race, and I think it would take a little bit from the 500.

"Now after the 500, mid-year, something like that, that would probably be fine. But I'd hate to see it interfere with the Indy 500 maybe a week or two before it opens.I don't think it's a good deal, and that's my personal opinion. I don't think you'd have that many people there."


http://www.racer.com/foyt-against-indy- ... le/313502/ (http://www.racer.com/foyt-against-indy-road-course-race/article/313502/)


If only he would have opposed the split, his legacy of protecting the prestige of the Indy 500 would be unquestionable.

[bugeyedgomer]

Jenna Fryer ?
#IndyCar is going to have a road course race at IMS. You thought that wasn't going to happen?


Indianapolis Motor Speedway confirms IndyCar road-course race for May 2014
Indianapolis 500 month will include road race to kick-off festivities

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013092 ... /130929843 (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130926/INDYCAR/130929843)

[call_me_andrew]

i figured if they were going to reconfigure the road course, turn 7 (the turn onto Hullman) would be made into a left and the road course would exit in a right turn into the north chute. Traffic would then go through oval-turn 3 "backwards" and road course turns 11 & 12 would become part of a chicane before traffic returns to the previous route. i don't feel like drawing a map right now.

Yes i know Hullman leads to a tunnel, but if a strong enough retaining wall were built, traffic could run parallel.

I don't feel like drawing a picture.