Favourite Non-Winning Drive?

[Parabolica]

Another question to the Forum.

Which was your favourite, most highly-rated, non-victorious drive in motorsport?

It doesn't have to involve leading the race, it doesn't have to be a drive that saw defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

Although it can, should you wish.

My starter? Jean Alesi at Paul Ricard in 1989. Grand Prix debut, ran second, finished fourth.

[Mintexmemory]

2 drives simultaneously - Villeneuve and Arnoux

[i_max2k2]

Schumacher Brazil 2006, he was flying in that race.

[BDunnell]

There are so many from which to choose. Although Chris Amon in the 1972 French GP, springs to mind — he should have won it at something of a canter, but a puncture intervened; to come back to finish third was quite an achievement — I will go for some examples in rallying, seeing as no-one else has.

Jean Ragnotti in the 1987 Portuguese Rally is one. A stunning drive to challenge Alen's Lancia in the very unpromising Renault 11 Turbo. To lead on gravel in a car giving away over 100hp and two driving wheels was spectacular and delightful. Then there are two Stig Blomqvist performances in lesser cars, on the 1983 Swedish Rally in the Audi 80 quattro and, of course, the 1996 RAC in the Skoda Felicia. And who could forget Tony Pond's efforts in inferior equipment on so many occasions, not least the 1985 RAC with the Metro 6R4?

[Corvettian]

2 drives simultaneously - Villeneuve and Arnoux

People often forget that Jabouille took the Renault turbo's first win that day.
During the last few laps, everybody's attention was on Villeneuve and Arnoux, overtaking one another repeatedly, banging wheels and locking brakes. Irresponsible to a few, but exhilerating to most!!
Villeneuve later described it as "my best memory of Grand Prix racing."

[Rollo]

1997 Hungarian GP... Damon Hill... second.

Although Hill had started third, by about lap 10 pr so, he'd overtaken both Villeneuve's Williams and Schumacher's Ferrari and put his Arrows into the lead. He would have given Arrows their only GP victory save for a 50p washer failure and ended up coasting to second, with Villeneuve dipping wheels into the dirt to overtake him on the very last lap.

Damon Hill wins almost Hungaroring 1997 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adZD6xAFM0U)

[Mintexmemory]

People often forget that Jabouille took the Renault turbo's first win that day.
During the last few laps, everybody's attention was on Villeneuve and Arnoux, overtaking one another repeatedly, banging wheels and locking brakes. Irresponsible to a few, but exhilerating to most!!
Villeneuve later described it as "my best memory of Grand Prix racing."

I have good cause to remember JPJ's win at Dijon - it won me £100! British bookmakers had just begun to offer odds on F1 and went entirely on form with no thought of potential. I reasoned that if there was one GP that Renault would have prepared for their best shot it was France. So when I found odds of 100-1 for JPJ it was a no-brainer. A quid stake was a significant amount of cash for me in 79 ;) .
Amon's Cleremont drive was high on my list as is Clark - Monza 67.
In 2009 I got Rene A to autograph a shot of him interlocked with Gilles from Dijon.As he signed he had a broad grin and said ' the best race ever'.

[Parabolica]

Could I nominate another?

Suzuka 1997, Eddie Irvine.

A superb example of team-tactics, expertly executed.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Mansell at Donington 1998 in the BTCC. Started 19th and went on to claim the lead after the safety car before finishing just off the podium.

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[BDunnell]

Mansell at Donington 1998 in the BTCC. Started 19th and went on to claim the lead after the safety car before finishing just off the podium.

Yes, another that rates highly. There would have been hell to pay if Mansell had won on the road, given his blatant pass of Muller under the safety car.

[Parabolica]

I'm glad to be reminded of Jean Ragnotti. I'm not big on my rally knowledge, but that was an excellent drive.

He was a seriously talented driver, in a varied number of disciplines.

Did he not do some of the early development testing of the F1 Renault Turbo chassis also?

[BDunnell]

I'm glad to be reminded of Jean Ragnotti. I'm not big on my rally knowledge, but that was an excellent drive.

He was a seriously talented driver, in a varied number of disciplines.

Indeed. Here is some footage of him in the 11 Turbo on that Portuguese Rally: 1987 WRC Rally Portugal. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0V45TD9iAM)



Did he not do some of the early development testing of the F1 Renault Turbo chassis also?

Don't know.

[ford power]

bertie fisher on 1990 manx
he had led event and driving excellently but ended up punturing and had to settle for 2nd

[BDunnell]

bertie fisher on 1990 manx
he had led event and driving excellently but ended up punturing and had to settle for 2nd

His drives to second on the 1983 and 1987 Ulster Internationals in Manta 400s are also favourites of mine.

On the subject of the British Open championship, Jimmy McRae's near-miss on the 1987 Scottish, losing what would have been his first home win with a mistake and a gear linkage problem on the final night and ending up second by 10 seconds, also stands out.

[ford power]

nearly forgot about this but the bolshikh brothers on 1990 killarney rally in a m3
first time over didn,t have a clue about the stages and the weather wosn,t great
( what with the ice/frost and snow on some parts of the stages )
finished second to fisher after some incredible driving in fact they held the record on the kilmacillogue stage until 1998

[Ex-Jagboy]

Graham Hill`s epic performance at Silverstone in 1960, was right out of the top drawer, having stalled his BRM on the start line, necessitating a push start after the remainder of the field had disappeared out of sight ,he then carved his way through the entire field in extraordinary fashion, eventually taking the lead from Brabham, and then with victory in sight, he inexplicably spun at Copse,..... a sad end for a fantastic drive.

[wedge]

Schumacher Brazil 2006, he was flying in that race.

Helped partly by Massa slowing his pace so as not to lap Schumi and also to help Schumi conserve his tyres and then go for maximum attack later on the same stint.

And all but Kimi gladly let Schumi pass.

In the same race Sato finished 10th in the Super Aguri in their B spec car which was originally an old Arrows chassis modified for that season. There was no points for 10th then but the way Sato and the rest of the team reacted it was like a race win.

[dupanton]

Very strange the Senna-Toleman-Monaco race isn't here... Although he crossed the line first, he didn't win :D It was a brillant race and the birth of a new Hero!

[555-04Q2]

Schumacher Brazil 2006, he was flying in that race.

One of my favourite drives for sure :up:

As you mentioned he was absolutely on it in that race. It showed that at that stage he was still quick and should have stayed for another year or two and then retired. In the end he left so Massa could stay with Kimi coming to the team, a few more competitive seasons from the great were lost.

[Robinho]

I remember a year when Dave Metcalfe took a Nova GTE to 4th on the Manx rally against much more potent machinery

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[ford power]

I remember a year when Dave Metcalfe took a Nova GTE to 4th on the Manx rally against much more potent machinery

Sent from North Korea using the dark network
1992 manx
he also finished 4th in that years ulster one hell of a driver

[D28]

As in all lists of motorsport accomplishments, the name Tazio Nuvolari warrants consideration. Any number of his drives might qualify for this question, but I would nominate his drive in the 1947 Mille Miglia.
A very unlikely combination of aged driver and new car, Nuvolari and the Cisitalia 202 Spyder were 8 minutes ahead at Rome. A thunderstorm drowned the electrics causing valuable time, but Nuvolari powered on to finish 2nd by about 16 minutes to Biondetti's much larger Alfa. All this from a very sick 55 year old body. Even then he wasn't finished having a final go in 1948 for Ferrari.

[D-Type]

As in all lists of motorsport accomplishments, the name Tazio Nuvolari warrants consideration. Any number of his drives might qualify for this question, but I would nominate his drive in the 1947 Mille Miglia.
A very unlikely combination of aged driver and new car, Nuvolari and the Cisitalia 202 Spyder were 8 minutes ahead at Rome. A thunderstorm drowned the electrics causing valuable time, but Nuvolari powered on to finish 2nd by about 16 minutes to Biondetti's much larger Alfa. All this from a very sick 55 year old body. Even then he wasn't finished having a final go in 1948 for Ferrari.Just to add that the Cisitalia was an 1100cc car.

[Don Capps]

Speaking of Nuvolari, his drives that came up short in two events during 1933, Monaco and Tripoli, were both excellent drives, either one of which could/would/should have been victories.

The Alan Kulwicki drive in the 1992 season finale at Atlanta was a great, heads-up drive, Kulwicki doing exactly what was needed, something very easy to say or plan, but very hard to actually do.

Jim Clark's recovery from his bone-headed moment on the grid in the 1962 German GP was an incredible effort; one can only imagine what it might have been had he left with everyone else.... Or had the Type 23 not had problems in the 1000 km race earlier in the season.

[D-Type]

How about Fangio's drive in the 1953 Mille Miglia in an Alfa Romeo 'Disco Volante' coupe. He was leading the race by about two minutes until shortly after half distance when the chassis broke and a steering rod became detached leaving him with only the right front wheel responding to the steering wheel. He carried on at slightly reduced speed. He found that under braking the disconnected left wheel would splay out so he had to resort to slowing the car on the gears. On the very last corner he failed to take the bend and hit a pile of straw bales head on. So he reversed across the finishing line to take second place some 12 minutes behind the winner and 18 minutes ahead of the 3rd placed car.

[Parabolica]

Ivan Capelli at the Portuguese GP of 1988.

Took an under-powered Judd engined Leyton House March to second, gaining on Prost in an MP4/4 in the closing stages.


Of course, it could be that he was flattered by the car, just as Vettel supposedly is now, according to some.
The curse of having the temerity to sit in an Adrian Newey creation. It is sad that a fine drive be diminished by a desire to undermine achievement.

[pertti_jarla]

Georges Boillot, French Grand Prix, 4th of July 1914: in a Peugeot he made reputedly his best drive ever, trying to fight the superior Mercedes team. Lead for 15 laps, the car finally broke down on the last lap, and the man collapsed over the steering wheel, crying. Mercedes won 1-2-3. The next month the World War started, Boillot joined the flying corps, became an ace and was fatally shot down in 1916. So, as you see, I find it an epic drive partly for non-racing reasons.

[555-04Q2]

Another great driver was from The Shoe when he was stuck in second gear I think it was yet still finished second. Was in 98 if I'm not mistaken?

[555-04Q2]

Sorry, was Spain 1994 :) Hill won the race by 24 seconds.

[BOZIANracing]

Metcalfe was a gifted man, unbelievably quick in FWD cars, a sad loss.

Loeb's first rally in the Xsara WRC, Sanremo 2001, by the end he was within a few seconds of the tarmac master of the time, Panizzi. A definite signal of intent.

Sato's drive in Canada 2007.

Andrew Nesbitt's drive on the Circuit of Ireland 2003, the incar footage is crazy

[BDunnell]

Metcalfe was a gifted man, unbelievably quick in FWD cars, a sad loss.

Some of the most outstanding drives I can recall have been in underpowered front-wheel-drive rally cars. See also Jean Ragnotti in the Renault 11 Turbo on the 1987 Portuguese Rally, Pentti Airikkala in the Astra GTE on the 1987 Manx, Louise Aitken-Walker in the Peugeot 205 GTi on the 1987 RAC, and of course Stig Blomqvist in the Skoda Felicia on the 1996 RAC. All absolutely brilliant. Who says such cars are boring to watch?

[D-Type]

Some of the most outstanding drives I can recall have been in underpowered front-wheel-drive rally cars. See also Jean Ragnotti in the Renault 11 Turbo on the 1987 Portuguese Rally, Pentti Airikkala in the Astra GTE on the 1987 Manx, Louise Aitken-Walker in the Peugeot 205 GTi on the 1987 RAC, and of course Stig Blomqvist in the Skoda Felicia on the 1996 RAC. All absolutely brilliant. Who says such cars are boring to watch?
And don't forget Eric Carlsson in the SAAB, admittedly he sometimes had a class handicap to help, but not often.

[BDunnell]

And don't forget Eric Carlsson in the SAAB. admittedly he sometimes he had a class handicap to help, but not often.

Ah, but he was winning quite a lot of the time!

[BOZIANracing]

Anything can be spectacular when it is driven properly. I would rather watch one R2 car on the limit than 10 WRC cars driven at 7/10ths.
Another one of my favourite drives was Damien McCarthy on the West Cork 2011. 3rd overall in a 1600 Civic.

West Cork Rally 2011 - Damien McCarthy & Eamon Hayes - SS12 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-77UaDEHhY)

[anfield5]

Damon Hill 1997 Hungarian GP. Stunning drive in an absolute dog of a car, dominated the weekend would have won easily, but for a 3rd party piece of engineering letting him down, something in the hydraulics, and was overtaken on the last lap by Villeneuve to finish 3rd (after Schumi had overtaken him a couple of laps earlier). Should have been Arrows first and only win

[Parabolica]

Playing Devils Advocate, it is my opinion that Hill was the beneficiary of factors which have always been overlooked or played down.

The Bridgestone tyres that he was using were, I suspect, the best tyre to be on that day. For sure, he made good use of them, but he had a major tyre advantage.

In many ways, it compares to Maldanados race win last year, where a specific car and a specific set-up worked.

Of course, no other Bridgestone runner was competitive, but at that time Hill was the only one who could be considered capable. Panis was injured, Trulli New and Diniz distinctly third rate. Nakano about the same.

So, for me, a good drive, an unlucky one, but not necessarily one of the best.

[ford power]

james cullen on the 1988 donegal rally
was absoloutley flying in a opel ascona

[journeyman racer]

As far as F1 goes, I'm choosing the Hill 2nd place at Hungary. I don't care about the factors contributing to it. It would've been great had the result meant that it wasn't valid for this thread. It would've been a more thrilling result than the Belgian GP win.

I remember being impressed by a 3rd place from Fisichella at Spa in the Benetton, in 2001 iirc. Not that often I was impressed by Fisi.

[Starter]

2 drives simultaneously - Villeneuve and Arnoux
What racing is all about. Probably the most intense, fair and exciting pair of drives in the history of the sport.

[AAReagles]

There are so many from which to choose. Although Chris Amon in the 1972 French GP, springs to mind....

Given the title of the thread one could be forgiven to mistake the subject matter being entirely formulated to Amon.

Aside from what has already been mentioned; Dijon 79', Clark/Monza, Nuvolari/Millie Miglia, I would add Amon's last laps at Spa in 70' while chasing Rodriguez. He decided to take the Masta Kink flat-out and gained 2 seconds in the closing laps finishing just over 1sec behind. Later stating he was satisified since Spa was no joke and finishing a race (at those consistent speeds) on such a track was in itself an achievement...

[gm99]

...and was overtaken on the last lap by Villeneuve to finish 3rd (after Schumi had overtaken him a couple of laps earlier).

Schumacher didn't pass Hill that day, he finished fourth. Villeneuve won from Damon and Johnny Herbert (in a Sauber, if memory serves me well).

[journeyman racer]

Playing Devils Advocate, it is my opinion that Hill was the beneficiary of factors which have always been overlooked or played down.

The Bridgestone tyres that he was using were, I suspect, the best tyre to be on that day. For sure, he made good use of them, but he had a major tyre advantage.

In many ways, it compares to Maldanados race win last year, where a specific car and a specific set-up worked.

Of course, no other Bridgestone runner was competitive, but at that time Hill was the only one who could be considered capable. Panis was injured, Trulli New and Diniz distinctly third rate. Nakano about the same.

So, for me, a good drive, an unlucky one, but not necessarily one of the best.
Now that this thread has been bumped, and having the chance to read it again with time having passed. This opinion of Parabolica's, clearly points out to me the narrow mindedness of fans.

Damon Hill puts in one of the all-time great/surprise memorable drives ever in F1. Dominating a GP in an Arrows-Yamaha combination of all things, and no doubt should've won. Then we get "Oh, but he was using Bridgestone tyres. They were the best tyres to use. He was lucky" Nonsense.

Then on the flipside. Michael Schumacher wins 5 titles on the trot, with the single biggest contributor in performance being Bridgestone. Yet this fact is never acknowledged. Except by me, on various forums. Bridgestone however, is blamed for Ferrari's lack of performance and success in 05. Don't forget though, Ferrari/Schumacher's only win in 05, was due Bridgestone providing a better tyre.

[jens]

Obviously too many to choose from, but for fun let's say Schumacher in Malaysia in 1999. He was doing all the tricks, deliberately held others up and deliberately finished second. Irvine might have won the race, but in reality this race was pure Schumacher Show.

[rjbetty]

One which was really nice, and forgotten is Jarno Trulli's drive to 6th at Spain for Prost in 1999, in a race with almost modern day levels of retirements (at least amongst the frontrunners) i.e. precious few to speak of.

BTW does anyone remember Rubens moaning about an overtaking move Damon put on him for 7th at turn 5 late in that race? It was very good but had Ruby very unhappy afterwards, 10 years before his infamous "Blah Blah Blah" episode at the same track. To add further insult, he was then disqualified!

[Rollo]

Philippe Streiff finished 3rd at Adelaide in 1985 despite coming together with his Ligier team mate Jacques Laffite, busting his front left wheel and suspension and drove the last lap of the race with only three wheels in working order.

He was not offered a return drive for 1986.

[rjbetty]

Philippe Streiff finished 3rd at Adelaide in 1985 despite coming together with his Ligier team mate Jacques Laffite, busting his front left wheel and suspension and drove the last lap of the race with only three wheels in working order.

He was not offered a return drive for 1986.

That's a good one. What about Laffite two races earlier at Brands Hatch. Apparently he was out of the points having had problems, but his race pace was supreme. Think he got up to 7th in the end but he was something like the fastest out there, and got fastest lap I think.

Pierluigi Martini's 5th for Minardi in Spain '94, beating Eddie Irvine, has a similar feel to it as Trulli's I mentioned 5 years later.

Rubens Barrichello at Adelaide that year, on for a podium on merit before getting a stop-go penalty. He still finished 4th.

[AAReagles]

Damon Hill 1997 Hungarian GP. Stunning drive in an absolute dog of a car, dominated the weekend would have won easily, but for a 3rd party piece of engineering letting him down, something in the hydraulics... Should have been Arrows first and only win

... or poor Patrese leading the 1978 South African GP for 37 laps after Andretti and Scheckter fell off the pace w/tire problems. Then on lap 64 of 78 his engine let go.
At least Peterson won, Patrick Depailler putting in a good show for Tyrell.

[AAReagles]

Speaking of the South African GP…

Here’s one that completely slipped my mind from a Road & Track race report I read long ago:

http://en.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/67825.html

Rhodesian driver John Love, one of the last of the private entries I believe, was piloting a Cooper T79 power by 2.7-litre Climax for the 1967 South African GP. It was the first time that an official F1 race was scheduled at the Kyalami circuit, so most GP regulars weren’t as familiar with the “racing surface” as Love was, so he qualified a respectable 5th on the grid, only to fall back once the green flag flew.

After the race attrition took its’ toll of the heavy weights (Clark, Stewart, Rindt, Gurney, G.Hill, etc.) Love was gathering himself back up the field, with just Hulme in front. On lap 61, Hulme encountered some problems and had to pit, in which now Love found himself in the lead – ahead of Pedro Rodriguez.

Unfortunately he encountered fuel-feed problems with 7 laps to go, and had to pit for more fuel; only later to discover there was a problem with the fuel pump. He finished 2nd, some 25+ seconds behind Rodriguez.

On note of that fuel pump: John Love arrived at the circuit with two fuel pumps, lending one of them to another private works entrant, Rob Walker’s pilot, Jo Siffert. The pump that ended up in RW’s car was suppose to go into Love’s Cooper instead.

[52Paddy]

Charlie Cox raced a stormer at Brands Hatch in 1995. The track was soaking and he made a clever move to take on some wets while others struggled for grip. Yes, this obviously put him in a far better position to move through the field, but seeing a lovable, independent score the best overall finishing position for a privateer and picking off all the works teams along the way was a joy.

[Rollo]

I am madly trying to find a look see at the last half hour of Bathurst 1984. David Parsons made up 59 seconds to finish second in the race and I want to see it.

[Owain]

My favourite was Alesi in the Ferrari at Suzuka in 1995. It was a wet race.

He jumped the start and got a 10sec penalty. He made back the places he'd lost with ridiculous ease. IIRC, he then picked up another 10sec penalty for another infringement (pit lane speeding?). He made up all the places again. He was right up behind Schumacher's world-beating Benetton, and it was shaping up to be a fantastic dual for the win, when his driveshaft broke.

Okay, the penalties were his fault, but the way he fought back was incredible. It was the most amazing non-winning drive I've ever seen.