What Happens When the Oil Runs Out?

[Rudy Tamasz]

I would like to hear your opinion of this article, my dear friends:

What Happens When the Oil Runs Out? (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/What-Happens-When-the-Oil-Runs-Out.html)

I am not involved in the oil industry in any way, so some more insight from experts would definitely help. That said, I am more interested in far reaching implications of the decline in oil production. Cheap carbohydrates are the material basis of the modern day globalized society. Therefore, the human civilization will have to change as well. The author argues, that "a metamorphosis of human civilization from the global to the local, will be underpinned by building strong, resilient communities in which people share their skills and knowledge, to provide as much as possible at the local, grass-roots level." I wouldn't mind such a course of events at all but it sounds too optimistic for me.

[Mark]

Firstly the oil isn't going to 'run out' as such, in the way your car runs out of petrol, "that's it, there's none left". Instead it'll gradually get more and more expensive so you get to a point where normal people can no longer afford to run a car on it. Trouble is before you get to that point you have wars and unrest to deal with...

Having said that any notion that we're just going to go back to not using cars or public transport instead is fanciful. We will use alternative fuel sources, be they batteries, hydrogen, bio fuel or whatever.

[555-04Q2]

Don't believe all the cr@p that people talk about regarding oil running out. There is more than enough oil to last another 100 years at least.

[Starter]

Don't believe all the cr@p that people talk about regarding oil running out. There is more than enough oil to last another 100 years at least.
And your point is? It's still going to run out. Just that you and I won't have to deal with it.

[555-04Q2]

And your point is? It's still going to run out. Just that you and I won't have to deal with it.

By then we would have found a viable solution. Look what we've done in the last 100 years. From riding on horses to the invention of the motorcar to putting a man in space, a robot on Mars etc. Finding a solution to replace oil will only take will (the oil companies are obviously against alternatives for now), the science is already there to take us forward now someone just needs to perfect it and do it.

We will be fine without oil one day :)

[schmenke]

...We will be fine without oil one day :)

No we won't. Anarchy will ensue.
But as has been mentioned there are for more untapped petroleum reserves in the world than most people realise.

We should be more concerned about fresh water. The world will run out of fresh water far soon than depleting our petroleum reserves.

[555-04Q2]

No we won't. Anarchy will ensue.
But as has been mentioned there are for more untapped petroleum reserves in the world than most people realise.

We should be more concerned about fresh water. The world will run out of fresh water far soon than depleting our petroleum reserves.

I don't see how anarchy would come about with the loss of oil if we have an alternative.

With regards to fresh water, yip, but if governments would stop wasting money the building of "expensive" desalination plants will resolve this issue.

[BDunnell]

And your point is? It's still going to run out. Just that you and I won't have to deal with it.

There is a certain selfishness about the attitude opposing that view.

[BDunnell]

By then we would have found a viable solution. Look what we've done in the last 100 years. From riding on horses to the invention of the motorcar to putting a man in space, a robot on Mars etc. Finding a solution to replace oil will only take will (the oil companies are obviously against alternatives for now), the science is already there to take us forward now someone just needs to perfect it and do it.

Well, they actually need to take the commercial risk, and that's what large companies in all sorts of sectors are often unwilling to do.

[555-04Q2]

Well, they actually need to take the commercial risk, and that's what large companies in all sorts of sectors are often unwilling to do.

Indeed. problem is the oil companies has squashed many attempts already at alternative solutions to oil (they must have a vault with patents they have bought people out for) and until they really start running out of oil, they wont look at alternatives for now either.

[schmenke]

When petroleum does run out the world’s population will have exploded to the point that providing sufficient energy to everyone to sustain a reasonable lifestyle will be impossible.

Even today “alternative” energy sources simply don’t even come close to providing the output necessary to maintain today’s population at the same levels as burning hydrocarbons does.

Quite simply, there is only one energy source that can provide similar energy output levels but its consequences, as demonstrated a couple of years ago in Japan, make it unattractive to most.

[BDunnell]

Indeed. problem is the oil companies has squashed many attempts already at alternative solutions to oil (they must have a vault with patents they have bought people out for) and until they really start running out of oil, they wont look at alternatives for now either.

A selfish and potentially dangerous attitude.

[555-04Q2]

That's why I've always said governments need to control their populations. Why some people feel the need to have 5,6,7,8,9,10 children etc and overpopulate the earth is beyond me :crazy:

[555-04Q2]

A selfish and potentially dangerous attitude.

Indeed it is, but sadly, a reality.

[BDunnell]

When petroleum does run out the world’s population will have exploded to the point that providing sufficient energy to everyone to sustain a reasonable lifestyle will be impossible.

We may think that now, but one must surely live in the hope that, as advances are made to bring about viable alternatives to fossil fuels, so other advances will allow us to consume less energy while performing the same tasks.

[BDunnell]

That's why I've always said governments need to control their populations. Why some people feel the need to have 5,6,7,8,9,10 children etc and overpopulate the earth is beyond me :crazy:

Freedom of choice.

[555-04Q2]

Freedom of choice.

Is often a bad thing when people are involved ;)

[Starter]

That's why I've always said governments need to control their populations. Why some people feel the need to have 5,6,7,8,9,10 children etc and overpopulate the earth is beyond me :crazy:
That's one of the major issues with the energy problem and, as pointed out earlier in this thread, the problem with fresh water. In fact, all natural resources are finite. Over population is the biggest long term problem facing mankind. I don't think it's the governments that should control this - encourage restraint for sure though. I fault most of the world's major religions for telling people to go out and breed like roaches.

[Mark]

It's because of the demographic transition model. GCSE Geography stuff ;)

[ioan]

By then we would have found a viable solution. Look what we've done in the last 100 years. From riding on horses to the invention of the motorcar to putting a man in space, a robot on Mars etc. Finding a solution to replace oil will only take will (the oil companies are obviously against alternatives for now), the science is already there to take us forward now someone just needs to perfect it and do it.

We will be fine without oil one day :)

There are already lots of alternatives available.
In fact we could live without oil right now if we really wanted it.

[ioan]

Freedom of choice.

I would rather call it lack of education and religious indoctrination.

[ioan]

When petroleum does run out the world’s population will have exploded to the point that providing sufficient energy to everyone to sustain a reasonable lifestyle will be impossible.

Even today “alternative” energy sources simply don’t even come close to providing the output necessary to maintain today’s population at the same levels as burning hydrocarbons does.

Quite simply, there is only one energy source that can provide similar energy output levels but its consequences, as demonstrated a couple of years ago in Japan, make it unattractive to most.


From my point of view the issue is not that we can not produce enough energy, the problem is that we use much more than we actually need.

[D-Type]

It appears that some posters on this thread have not read the article linked in post #1. I have, and have no reson to doubt the facts stated.

The reality is that oil and other fossil fuels are finite. The easiest reserves to exploit have been developed - British coal and Texan oil are two obvious examples. The number of places in the world where there might be oil reduces with each new find. The oil and coal will run out: the only question is "When?"

We have to do something before its too late. But what?

[Bagwan]

Poop .
We have enough fuel on the surface to replace that which big oil brings up from below .
We , and all our animals produce it every day .

Methane can easily take care of the heating , and most , if not all of the power .
Fill the rest up with solar , and we're golden .

And , I do mean golden , as , once the infrastructure is set up , the power is free .

Then , not OPEC nor anyone else controls your a$$ , in every sense .

[Mark]

We have twin problems of the easy supplies running down plus unprecedented demand due to developing economies in the likes of China.

[gadjo_dilo]

When the oil runs out we shall come back to Nature and live a less complicated happy life. :p

[Bagwan]

We have twin problems of the easy supplies running down plus unprecedented demand due to developing economies in the likes of China.

They all poop , too .

Seriously , there are sewage treatment plants around every town and city , and they could all be adapted to , instead of gassing off with aerobic bacteria , running anaerobic digesters .

That's two problems licked , as it would capture all that methane(natural gas) and stop it being a global warming issue , being about the worst of the greenhouse gasses , and stop all the sequestered carbon from underground sources being viable to extract .

[BleAivano]

I would like to hear your opinion of this article, my dear friends:

What Happens When the Oil Runs Out? (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/What-Happens-When-the-Oil-Runs-Out.html)



This is what happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WJuk81wv5uM&t=12 ;)





The reality is that oil and other fossil fuels are finite.


Not only oil and fossil fuels, but also minerals and metals are finite.

Oil can in some extent be extracted from other sources like algae. The process is probably more complicated, probably takes longer time and
is probably more expensive but it works. Some plastics items like plastic bags, pens and etc are also no longer being
made by oil but rather from Potato starch. So I think we will be able to function even without regular oil.

Vehichles will hopefully be powered by hydrogen/electric hybrids and the worlds energy supply comes from hydrogen bases fusion power.
However the latter is something that probably that is another 30-40-50 years away from full scale use.

[Parabolica]

By the time the oil runs out, we will all have been enslaved by Apes.

Or Onions.

Vegetables will rise up and crush us.

[BDunnell]

I would rather call it lack of education and religious indoctrination.

Those are not the only reasons people have large families.

[edv]

We should be more concerned about fresh water. The world will run out of fresh water far soon than depleting our petroleum reserves.
The amount of water on the planet neither increases nor decreases. It is constant.

[Rollo]

As far as fuel goes, I'm sure that some sort of biodiesel or even bio-jet technology could be employed as in the Jaguar CX-75 concept:
http://www.motortrader.com.my/news/wp-content/uploads/images/Cars/Images/Jaguar/C-X75-Concept/c-x75-(1).jpg
Petrol was always a by-product and can probably be replaced with some sort of constant renewable like Canola or someyhing - plant scientists, there's your job; off you go.

The real question is what happens about all the plastics, dyes and other chemicals which are produced?
Crude oil is useful because it contains very long chain hyrdocarbons. Those are the basis for all sorts of neat chemical things. It's far easier and efficient to crack hyrdocarbons than to add them together; in most cases by specific energies of at least twenty-fold.

Maybe we should be looking at coal-tar again. Perkin's mauveine dye was found by accident while he was looking for quinine, whilst looking at gunk made by coal-tar chemistry.

[BleAivano]

The real question is what happens about all the plastics, dyes and other chemicals which are produced?
Crude oil is useful because it contains very long chain hyrdocarbons. Those are the basis for all sorts of neat chemical things. It's far easier and efficient to crack hyrdocarbons than to add them together; in most cases by specific energies of at least twenty-fold.



this is how you partially solve the problem with plastics:


Some plastics items like plastic bags, pens and etc are also no longer being
made by oil but rather from Potato starch. So I think we will be able to function even without regular oil.

Potato Plastic (http://www.ecogeek.org/biofuels/810)
Bio-plastics: Turning Wheat And Potatoes into Plastics - The Naked Scientists (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/bioplastics/)
Bioplastic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic)

Read this on how to do it yourself: http://www.rsc.org/education/teachers/Resources/inspirational/resources/3.1.7.pdf

Corn starch can also be used for the same purpose:

Corn starch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_starch)

[airshifter]

There is a lot of promise in bio plastics, and I expect that interest will continue to grow as crude prices continue to rise.

[555-04Q2]

It appears that some posters on this thread have not read the article linked in post #1. I have, and have no reson to doubt the facts stated.

The reality is that oil and other fossil fuels are finite. The easiest reserves to exploit have been developed - British coal and Texan oil are two obvious examples. The number of places in the world where there might be oil reduces with each new find. The oil and coal will run out: the only question is "When?"

We have to do something before its too late. But what?

All resources are finite, including energy harnessed from the sun as it also has a finite lifespan. Some resources just have a longer availability than others.

[Bagwan]

There is a lot of promise in bio plastics, and I expect that interest will continue to grow as crude prices continue to rise.

That's true .
In my coffee shop , we use scales that are made from hempseed oil plastic .

[Bagwan]

this is how you partially solve the problem with plastics:



Potato Plastic (http://www.ecogeek.org/biofuels/810)
Bio-plastics: Turning Wheat And Potatoes into Plastics - The Naked Scientists (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/bioplastics/)
Bioplastic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic)

Read this on how to do it yourself: http://www.rsc.org/education/teachers/Resources/inspirational/resources/3.1.7.pdf

Corn starch can also be used for the same purpose:

Corn starch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_starch)

That's true , too .
We also use knives forks and spoons , for the "to go" customers , made from potato starch .
Plastic "smoothie" cups are also starch .

Our coffee cups have a biodegradable coating on the inside as opposed to a regular plastic layer , so they are actually compostable . They were developed for the US navy , so that the zillions that get tossed off ships don't just end up in any of the big plastics gyres .

[D-Type]

All resources are finite, including energy harnessed from the sun as it also has a finite lifespan. Some resources just have a longer availability than others.

That statement is, to quote an earlier post, "A load of cr@p". The point is that we have already used up so much of the world's available hydrocarbons (coal, oil and gas) that we have a major issue. The fact that the sun will cool down at some point in astronomical or geological time is not relevant to our pr4esesnt problem.

[555-04Q2]

That statement is, to quote an earlier post, "A load of cr@p". The point is that we have already used up so much of the world's available hydrocarbons (coal, oil and gas) that we have a major issue. The fact that the sun will cool down at some point in astronomical or geological time is not relevant to our pr4esesnt problem.

:erm: Ok.....You must be smoking your socks, so I'll give you a wide berth until tomorrow when you may, hopefully, be clearer headed.

[Bagwan]

The problem is one of greed .

The fossils flow , and the large money is made .
It's pretty understandable that big oil wants to keep that going , and therefore thwarts the rest of the alternatives . It's free enterprise .

They have the money , and can afford the propaganda machine .
And , big money spawns big ideas .

[555-04Q2]

The problem is one of greed .

The fossils flow , and the large money is made .
It's pretty understandable that big oil wants to keep that going , and therefore thwarts the rest of the alternatives . It's free enterprise .

They have the money , and can afford the propaganda machine .
And , big money spawns big ideas .

Yip! Money makes the world go round...

[Starter]

The problem is one of greed .

The fossils flow , and the large money is made .
It's pretty understandable that big oil wants to keep that going , and therefore thwarts the rest of the alternatives . It's free enterprise .

They have the money , and can afford the propaganda machine .
And , big money spawns big ideas .
You've overlooked the most pertinent point. None of the currently available alternatives are economically competitive with fossil fuel. Nor are most of them competitive from a daily practical point either. Change that equation and it won't make any difference what Big Oil wants.

[555-04Q2]

You've overlooked the most pertinent point. None of the currently available alternatives are economically competitive with fossil fuel. Nor are most of them competitive from a daily practical point either. Change that equation and it won't make any difference what Big Oil wants.

It's because of economies of scale. Alternatives are still expensive because their market share is a fraction of the traditional power sources. Once they increase their cost of sale factors decrease dramatically.

[Bagwan]

You've overlooked the most pertinent point. None of the currently available alternatives are economically competitive with fossil fuel. Nor are most of them competitive from a daily practical point either. Change that equation and it won't make any difference what Big Oil wants.

It's big oil that's got you believing all that , though .
That's the propaganda machine at work .

For example , the poop I mentioned earlier(and not just poop , but any other compostable materials) could be providing more than enough natural gas to fuel the world .
The are already many examples of this already happening in rudimentary ways in some countries we like to call "third world" .
I've seen pictures of a toilet with a big tank , built with a mud brick collector on top , which funnelled the gas into a pipe , which heated the home .
Now , granted , it was in a warm climate , but it made a huge difference in many ways .

Of course , firstly , it heated the home when it was needed .
Secondly , it dealt with the sanitary issue of where it all goes , so to speak .
And thirdly , it all went to the fields afterwards , where it belongs , to grow more food to complete the cycle .

You don't need to "frack" when it's all right here on the surface .

But , you see , if you were big oil , and could see that every town and city , and even , every country house with a septic tank , has the inate capacity to be independent , if they could just poop , it might just scare the poop right out of you .
People with dirt floors use it .

So , big oil comes to my area (the name's T. Boone Pickens , son) , and tries to put up wind turbines , to enable the natural gas plants to be justified . And big oil looks green on the surface , while the gas flows in the background .

And , all the while , the government lauds the efforts , using the photo op to green itself as well , leaving one wondering if they are complicit , or just naive .

Oil is the largest traded commodity on the planet .
The end of that scares them , and why wouldn't it ?

[555-04Q2]

The end of that scares them , and why wouldn't it ?

Nah, there are far more important things to worry about, like is the curry I had yesterday going to come back and haunt me today :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I would like to hear your opinion of this article, my dear friends:

What Happens When the Oil Runs Out? (http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/What-Happens-When-the-Oil-Runs-Out.html)

I am not involved in the oil industry in any way, so some more insight from experts would definitely help. That said, I am more interested in far reaching implications of the decline in oil production. Cheap carbohydrates are the material basis of the modern day globalized society. Therefore, the human civilization will have to change as well. The author argues, that "a metamorphosis of human civilization from the global to the local, will be underpinned by building strong, resilient communities in which people share their skills and knowledge, to provide as much as possible at the local, grass-roots level." I wouldn't mind such a course of events at all but it sounds too optimistic for me.

My friend, I will be long gone when this happens. I have decided to have my ashes scattered between Perisher Valley and Charlotte Pass.

[Starter]

Nah, there are far more important things to worry about, like is the curry I had yesterday going to come back and haunt me today :p :
Should your worry come true, then the energy solution suggested just above your post will solve the world's problem.
:D :eek: :eek: :D

[555-04Q2]

Should your worry come true, then the energy solution suggested just above your post will solve the world's problem.

:laugh: :up:

[Mark]

It's one thing which sets human society apart, the ability to use external energy sources be it, coal, oil, gas etc.

[555-04Q2]

It's one thing which sets human society apart, the ability to use external energy sources be it, coal, oil, gas etc.

You forgot to mention "cocking things up" as another human trait :p :

[schmenke]

We have twin problems of the easy supplies running down plus unprecedented demand due to developing economies in the likes of China.

You have is somewhat backwards. China’s rapid development is a direct result of mass consumption by western countries, particularly North America and Europe. China is merely the supply of cheap commercial goods demanded by the West.

[Mark]

But the consumption of those goods is giving rise to rapid economic development in China, with massive increases in the use of motor cars for example.

[555-04Q2]

You have is somewhat backwards. China’s rapid development is a direct result of mass consumption by western countries, particularly North America and Europe. China is merely the supply of cheap commercial goods demanded by the West.

Only the second person I know that understands how it works!

[555-04Q2]

But the consumption of those goods is giving rise to rapid economic development in China, with massive increases in the use of motor cars for example.

Yes, but that is following the initial pattern mentioned by schmenke. It was an inevitable development in the chain of things :)

[schmenke]

...Vehichles will hopefully be powered by hydrogen/electric hybrids and the worlds energy supply comes from hydrogen bases fusion power.
However the latter is something that probably that is another 30-40-50 years away from full scale use.

The problem with hydrogen is that, although abundant, it is rarely available in its base element. It is invariably locked up in other materials, such as water, requiring large energy input to extract it.

[schmenke]

The amount of water on the planet neither increases nor decreases. It is constant.


The source of fresh water for several billion people is quickly diminishing, without any viable alternative.

[555-04Q2]

The source of fresh water for several billion people is quickly diminishing, without any viable alternative.

Yes, but if we started to desalinate sea water in more countries for consumption, there would be no problem with fresh water for a hell of a long time to come!

[Bagwan]

Enter China , with it's "Golden Sun" incentive program and you have the cost of solar panels suddenly into the realm of being a viable energy alternative .
They had a million plus households that didn't have , and couldn't easily be provided with electricity , so they helped start companies that built solar panels .
As a result , prices have dropped from as much as $15.00/watt to $1.50/watt in five or six years across the world .

Trina Solar are a sponsor on the Lotus Renault . That's how well they are doing .

China is the wild card here , as they have the power(pardon the pun) to do it their own way .

[schmenke]

Yes, but if we started to desalinate sea water in more countries for consumption, there would be no problem with fresh water for a hell of a long time to come!

Yes, but desalination on a mass scale, typically done by reverse osmosis, requires a huge amount of energy, and is a very expensive process.

[donKey jote]

Just be careful how/where you dump all the brine...

[schmenke]

I'd be more concerned with dumping the byproduct of Baggy's proposal... :erm:

[Rollo]

On-Line Electric Vehicle (OLEV) (http://korean-machinery.com/2013/04/01/on-line-electric-vehicle-olev/)
The OLEV system doesn’t need charging stations because the vehicle is charged wirelessly in real time while running on the road. Since its battery capacity also is reduced to 20% of that of a typical pure electric vehicle, the OLEV is regarded as an enabling technology to speed up the commercialization of electric vehicles.
The OLEV technology was successfully applied and demonstrated in Seoul Grand Park by installing about 400m of power cables on 2.2km circular track and operating an OLEV tram. Furthermore, KAIST Wireless Power Transfer Research Center has decided to launch the electrification projects in Park City, Utah, United States and Kuala Lumpur Airport, Malaysia.

Is this a possible answer to charging station problems with electric cars... don't have any?

Sure, it's going to require a massive investment in infrastructure but it at least addresses the issue of transportabilty of energy.
Clarkson pointed out that the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric, couldn't go very far on a charge but if it was constantly being charged whilst being driven - problem sorted.

[555-04Q2]

Yes, but desalination on a mass scale, typically done by reverse osmosis, requires a huge amount of energy, and is a very expensive process.

True, but if everyone in the world was going to die due to a lack of fresh water, would we say to ourselves "well we will have to die then because it costs too much money to save ourselves"? I don't think so, when the chips are down there is always money to be found.

[Bagwan]

True, but if everyone in the world was going to die due to a lack of fresh water, would we say to ourselves "well we will have to die then because it costs too much money to save ourselves"? I don't think so, when the chips are down there is always money to be found.

Elevate the water using a wind turbine , and use gravity for the reverse osmosis .

[Bagwan]

I'd be more concerned with dumping the byproduct of Baggy's proposal... :erm:

That's a cute , throw away comment .

The byproduct of the poop is rich soil .
The only thing missing from the mix is a little poop to make it the perfect medium to grow the world's food .
Let's call it a second product .

[Mark]

On-Line Electric Vehicle (OLEV) (http://korean-machinery.com/2013/04/01/on-line-electric-vehicle-olev/)
The OLEV system doesn’t need charging stations because the vehicle is charged wirelessly in real time while running on the road. Since its battery capacity also is reduced to 20% of that of a typical pure electric vehicle, the OLEV is regarded as an enabling technology to speed up the commercialization of electric vehicles.
The OLEV technology was successfully applied and demonstrated in Seoul Grand Park by installing about 400m of power cables on 2.2km circular track and operating an OLEV tram. Furthermore, KAIST Wireless Power Transfer Research Center has decided to launch the electrification projects in Park City, Utah, United States and Kuala Lumpur Airport, Malaysia.

Is this a possible answer to charging station problems with electric cars... don't have any?

Sure, it's going to require a massive investment in infrastructure but it at least addresses the issue of transportabilty of energy.
Clarkson pointed out that the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric, couldn't go very far on a charge but if it was constantly being charged whilst being driven - problem sorted.

The cost of that would far outweigh the cost of having charging stations. However you could see it working for the likes of public transport which follows set routes. However the cost of putting the cables under the road is a problem for cost and maintenance, better to have the wires overhead, and the easiest way to make sure the vehicle stays in line with the wires is to run it on tracks.

[schmenke]

Elevate the water using a wind turbine , and use gravity for the reverse osmosis .

Perhaps, but reverse osmosis requires forcing sea water at high pressure through filters. I’m not convinced that gravity alone will provide sufficient pressure. Not to mention that likely hundreds of wind turbines would be required to power the pumps needed to move the huge amount of water.

[Bagwan]

Perhaps, but reverse osmosis requires forcing sea water at high pressure through filters. I’m not convinced that gravity alone will provide sufficient pressure. Not to mention that likely hundreds of wind turbines would be required to power the pumps needed to move the huge amount of water.

Don't you have the old Beatty Pumper squeaking away in your area ?
That's all that was needed to elevate the water in the old days .
The old farm homesteads around here often have the relics still standing , and the remnants of the old water tanks as well .

Reverse osmosis is used in many home water filtration systems , and it is fed with water from the old standard , the water tower .

But then , if you don't believe in gravity , then , well , I'm not sure what to say .

[Mark in Oshawa]

That's why I've always said governments need to control their populations. Why some people feel the need to have 5,6,7,8,9,10 children etc and overpopulate the earth is beyond me :crazy: You do realize most of the nations of Western Europe and developed world are not having enough kids even to replace themselves? The only reason most nations are growing at all is massive influxes of immigrants from places like India, the Middle East and all of THOSE people within a generation will likely do what we are doing. Not have enough kids to replace themselves....
Technology and democracy in First world nations are bringing the planet population control, the problem is poorer nations are going to have lots of kids because if you are farming in a low tech manner, you need workers...hence all the kids.

[Mark in Oshawa]

You've overlooked the most pertinent point. None of the currently available alternatives are economically competitive with fossil fuel. Nor are most of them competitive from a daily practical point either. Change that equation and it won't make any difference what Big Oil wants.
Stop making sense now....this is the biggest myth going. That BIG oil wants to supress good ideas. The fact is, they likely are working on new technologies themselves. They may not want to give up selling us oil, and wont have to, but don't be foolish kids, they are working on the next big thing as well. The other reality is other multinational giants would love to take some of the money going to big oil. You think General Electric, Boeing, the Car Makers and utility companies wouldn't love to find a working electric car that kicks ass? Safer nuclear reactor systems? How about plastics companies such as Dupont finding cheaper ways to make their product? Oil is so cheap relatively to where it will have to be before WE are begging to get off the treadmill that there is no urgency yet. As the oil prices rise above inflation, the market will be there for alternatives and people will find ways to fill it. That is the capitalist system, and the oil companies will not be able to stop it....

[555-04Q2]

You do realize most of the nations of Western Europe and developed world are not having enough kids even to replace themselves? The only reason most nations are growing at all is massive influxes of immigrants from places like India, the Middle East and all of THOSE people within a generation will likely do what we are doing. Not have enough kids to replace themselves....
Technology and democracy in First world nations are bringing the planet population control, the problem is poorer nations are going to have lots of kids because if you are farming in a low tech manner, you need workers...hence all the kids.

Yes we know the West is pretty much stable with regards to population growth. But areas like Africa, India etc are ballooning at ridiculous growth rates. I still can't fathom why anyone would want so many bloody kids :crazy:

[Mark]

Basically from a survival point of view you want your offspring to survive you. However when there is a high chance many of them won't make it into adulthood, you want to have more kids as just having 1 or 2 is too risky, as they might not survive.

But the main problem is that this isn't thought about logically, it's ingrained into culture and cultural norms and expectations. So even when infant mortality is low, it takes society a long time to catch up with not having quite as many children.

[gadjo_dilo]

I still can't fathom why anyone would want so many bloody kids :crazy:

I'm not sure those kids are really wanted. They just happen to be born because their parents either are too uneducated to think of contraception or belong to a culture where contraception is forbidden.

[Mark]

On-Line Electric Vehicle (OLEV) (http://korean-machinery.com/2013/04/01/on-line-electric-vehicle-olev/)
The OLEV system doesn’t need charging stations because the vehicle is charged wirelessly in real time while running on the road. Since its battery capacity also is reduced to 20% of that of a typical pure electric vehicle, the OLEV is regarded as an enabling technology to speed up the commercialization of electric vehicles.
The OLEV technology was successfully applied and demonstrated in Seoul Grand Park by installing about 400m of power cables on 2.2km circular track and operating an OLEV tram. Furthermore, KAIST Wireless Power Transfer Research Center has decided to launch the electrification projects in Park City, Utah, United States and Kuala Lumpur Airport, Malaysia.

Is this a possible answer to charging station problems with electric cars... don't have any?

Sure, it's going to require a massive investment in infrastructure but it at least addresses the issue of transportabilty of energy.
Clarkson pointed out that the Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Electric, couldn't go very far on a charge but if it was constantly being charged whilst being driven - problem sorted.

And so it comes to pass ;) BBC News - South Korean road wirelessly recharges OLEV buses (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23603751)

[BleAivano]

I'm not sure those kids are really wanted. They just happen to be born because their parents either are too uneducated to think of contraception or belong to a culture where contraception is forbidden.

agreed and the previous popes and the vatican have been a big cause to it as well.

[gadjo_dilo]

agreed and the previous popes and the vatican have been a big cause to it as well.
Were they influent in Africa and India? :confused:

[Starter]

Were they influent in Africa and India? :confused:
Some places in Africa, yes.

[schmenke]

Every Sperm is Sacred - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk)

[gadjo_dilo]

Basically from a survival point of view you want your offspring to survive you. However when there is a high chance many of them won't make it into adulthood, you want to have more kids as just having 1 or 2 is too risky, as they might not survive.

But the main problem is that this isn't thought about logically, it's ingrained into culture and cultural norms and expectations. So even when infant mortality is low, it takes society a long time to catch up with not having quite as many children.
Beyond logic and certain cultures I think it's great to have a large family....

[BleAivano]

Were they influent in Africa and India? :confused:

yes they are/were:
Roman Catholicism in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_in_Africa)
Catholic Church by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country#Africa)

[D-Type]

yes they are/were:
Roman Catholicism in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism_in_Africa)
Catholic Church by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country#Africa)
I'm not sure about India - with church membership only 1.58% of the population any influence would be minimal.

[555-04Q2]

I'm not sure about India - with church membership only 1.58% of the population any influence would be minimal.

The world is controlled by less than 1% of the population. Don't underestimate minorities in anything ;)

[Zeakiwi]

Does anyone own a flexfuel car ? Is there any noticeable difference between e85 and straight petrol/ gasoline?
Has anyone been to Brazil to drive an e100 car?

[airshifter]

Does anyone own a flexfuel car ? Is there any noticeable difference between e85 and straight petrol/ gasoline?
Has anyone been to Brazil to drive an e100 car?

I don't own one, and if I do get one it will get gas with as little ethanol as possible in it.

Some of the newer vehicles that are flex fuel actually make more power on E85 now. Quite a few of the GM vehicles show dyno numbers with both fuels. But MPG plummets, to the point that there are several tests saying the range is shorted so much that taking long trips becomes an issue with fuel stops. Unless they practically give it away, E85 isn't a value for the consumer, at least here in the US.

[Starter]

I don't own one, and if I do get one it will get gas with as little ethanol as possible in it.

Some of the newer vehicles that are flex fuel actually make more power on E85 now. Quite a few of the GM vehicles show dyno numbers with both fuels. But MPG plummets, to the point that there are several tests saying the range is shorted so much that taking long trips becomes an issue with fuel stops. Unless they practically give it away, E85 isn't a value for the consumer, at least here in the US.
Not to mention that. here at least, E85 costs more than regular gasoline. Not exactly the way to get the vast majority of folks to embrace it.

[Firstgear]

I have a Dodge Caravan that is flexfuel, but E85 is not common here. The odd time when I go to the US I have filled up with E85. If memory serves me correctly, it was about 50 cents cheaper per gallon. I didn't notice any difference in fuel consumption, but last winter (at about -20C) I did notice it was tougher to start the car when cold with E85 in the tank. I googled it afterwards and the tougher starting in cold does seem to be quite a common issue.

[Gregor-y]

E85 is pretty common in the midwest US but still not available everywhere. I tried running 3/4 E85 and 1/4 premium a few times in my Subaru and it really ups the feeling of power but as you may expect shortens the range. I knew a few Subarus and Mitsubishis turned for E85 that safely made a lot of power, but economy wasn't really part of their plan.