2014 Silly Season

[steveaki13]

If Hulkenberg misses out on the Lotus drive, I hope he stays at Sauber. It would be a waste to go back to Force India and Sauber seem to be better after a bad start this year.

I am not sure what Hulkenberg has to do in order to get a top drive. He has shown plenty thus far. Hope he gets a chance.

[anfield5]

If Hulkenberg misses out on the Lotus drive, I hope he stays at Sauber. It would be a waste to go back to Force India and Sauber seem to be better after a bad start this year.

I am not sure what Hulkenberg has to do in order to get a top drive. He has shown plenty thus far. Hope he gets a chance.


Absolutely, Hulk should be in a big team, no disrespect to Kimi, but I would have rather seen hulk in a Ferrari alongside Fred. It seems Hulk's issue is he is a 75kg monster.

[steveaki13]

sad that potential the 5 best drivers F1 has ever seen in a future year might all be left out because of weight.

[Tazio]

If Hulkenberg misses out on the Lotus drive, I hope he stays at Sauber. It would be a waste to go back to Force India and Sauber seem to be better after a bad start this year.

I am not sure what Hulkenberg has to do in order to get a top drive. He has shown plenty thus far. Hope he gets a chance.

In$anity:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20131030/F1/131039981

[steveaki13]

The way I see it.

Maldonado has won one race. In which he was brilliant. He has scored some points but been erratic most of the time.

While Nico has not got the good results (wins and podiums), he has shown consistent speed and a cool head. Something Mr Maldonado hasn't IMO. I know which I would rather give a go.

[rjbetty]

Totally agree guys. @Dr-Alcatraz I couldn't have said it better myself. That was very sad to read...

[zako85]

The way I see it.

Maldonado has won one race. In which he was brilliant. He has scored some points but been erratic most of the time.

While Nico has not got the good results (wins and podiums), he has shown consistent speed and a cool head. Something Mr Maldonado hasn't IMO. I know which I would rather give a go.


Maldonado raced consistently in 2013. As for speed, what do you expect from the car that now barely manages to get into Q2 sessions? Pairing one strong driver and another fast driver with good sponsors is a sensible approach. That's the best way to make sure that the team has a chance to give both of its drivers a good car next season. What I don't like is when a team fills all positions with pay drivers. I am actually happy that Maldonado finally gets a chance to with a decent team and with a decent teammate. One season like this will settle all doubts about Maldonado once and for all. He will either sink or swim, and there will be no possible excuses regarding a car that's too slow or the teammate that's too weak for him.

The way positions shuffle worked in the last few years, Hulkenberg had too much bad luck. Force India is not too bad team to join again. Stranger things have happened before. There will be surely a big shuffle of seats at the top teams again next year, so I hope Hulkenberg will get his chance then.

[Tazio]

The way I see it.

Maldonado has won one race. In which he was brilliant. He has scored some points but been erratic most of the time.

While Nico has not got the good results (wins and podiums), he has shown consistent speed and a cool head. Something Mr Maldonado hasn't IMO. I know which I would rather give a go.


Maldonado raced consistently in 2013. As for speed, what do you expect from the car that now barely manages to get into Q2 sessions? Pairing one strong driver and another fast driver with good sponsors is a sensible approach. That's the best way to make sure that the team has a chance to give both of its drivers a good car next season. What I don't like is when a team fills all positions with pay drivers. I am actually happy that Maldonado finally gets a chance to with a decent team and with a decent teammate. One season like this will settle all doubts about Maldonado once and for all. He will either sink or swim, and there will be no possible excuses regarding a car that's too slow or the teammate that's too weak for him.

The way positions shuffle worked in the last few years, Hulkenberg had too much bad luck. Force India is not too bad team to join again. Stranger things have happened before. There will be surely a big shuffle of seats at the top teams again next year, so I hope Hulkenberg will get his chance then.
I agree with your reasoning, and I really think Rogro is the goods, but he is not exactly an established super-star. He has been in a very good car these last two seasons and is yet to win, although that is largely due to Vettel dominance. If he reverts to his poorer form Lotus could end up with a top car and a weak driving tandem. I really don't think that is going to happen, but if it does one thing is for sure; the crash structure of the Lotus challenger will be thoroughly tested. At least they should be solvent :uhoh: :spin:

[jens]

It would be a real pity if Hülkenberg is left without a drive or even struggling to get a decent drive. Reminiscent of the fate of his countryman Nick Heidfeld. On a more positive note there is still a possibility Hulk might get a lucky break in the style of Button/Webber later in his career if he somehow manages to hang around for a while till then. Nico Rosberg has taken his time as well before getting more competitive cars.

I know we are wondering whether Vettel can get anywhere near Schumacher's records, but at this rate he will be racing only against paydrivers later in his career, making it too easy for him. But who will be there? I am seeing potential rivals getting left aside. I also see that Robin Frijns, who I have been rating very highly based on feeder series (one of the most talented upcoming drivers of the last quite a few years IMO), can't get funds together to continue racing career.

[555-04Q2]

I know we are wondering whether Vettel can get anywhere near Schumacher's records, but at this rate he will be racing only against paydrivers later in his career, making it too easy for him. But who will be there?

Well I think Seb will definitely get past The Shoe's pole positions record, he's probably only 3 or 4 seasons away from achieving that. He may be able to match the 7 WDC record, but not sure if he will get 8 or more. As for 91 wins, that is still a looooong way away and I think that is one record that may never be broken :)

But we never know, Seb is still only 26 so theoretically he could still be racing for another 14 years or so. He could land up with ridiculous stats by that time. Let's wait and see :)

[tfp]

Ok, can someone tell me what the hell is going on in F1 silly season at the minute? Pasta gets the lotus seat over the hulk? What is going on there then???
Two Russian kids, Sirotkin and I can't remember the other ones name. Haven't even proved themselves in Gp2 never mind being front in the line for a first team seat in F1.
And Max chilton has apparently secured a load of money (12 million euros or something?) to secure his seat in F1, and to be honest, he's done nothing of note all season.

I know there has always been pay drivers in F1, but this is starting to get ridiculous.

It's a shame there couldn't be another form of single seater racing that was much cheaper. That way we could see the average drivers with money in one sport and we could all watch the BEST drivers with no money in a different race.

Regulars to this forum will know I don't usually rant but.....

[jens]

What is going on? The deepening effects of economic crisis I say. Not many teams left, who can really choose and hire drivers without worrying about the budget.

Somebody somewhere (don't remember which thread) was asking, why did Ferrari hire Räikkönen over Hülkenberg. Well, it has to be said that Ferrari has seemed quite conservative for some time already. For years they didn't dare to let Massa go and take a gamble on a younger driver. It looks like they want to be absolutely sure the driver is experienced and especially proven, delivers points and doesn't make mistakes. However, this conservatism might be costing Ferrari titles...

Ferrari's driver choice situation was similar to Red Bull's. In both cases Räikkönen was one contender for the seat, together with a young driver (Ricciardo or Hülkenberg). RBR took a different approach by hiring the young one, believing it would have greater long-term benefit. It is often a tricky decision for teams to make. Only time will tell the answer. Even if I ponder whether it could have possibly made more sense if RBR preferred Räikkönen and Ferrari Hülkenberg.

But Hülkenberg without an F1 seat? Mmm, that's a bit of a blow for F1. One of, if not the most promising driver among those, who have debuted in 2009 or later. Could anyone have imagined in early 2000s that someone among the most promising drivers at the time like Montoya, Räikkönen, Alonso, couldn't get a seat just because they didn't have money?

Even if we don't grasp the situation fully now, long-term consequences of recession affecting driver market could be felt some time in the future. As I said, people could still complain in 10 years' time that Vettel is winning too much without much competition. And at least partly you would know the reason...

[zako85]

Ok, can someone tell me what the hell is going on in F1 silly season at the minute? Pasta gets the lotus seat over the hulk? What is going on there then???


See my post above from yesterday. Lotus needs money to develop a better car. Going with one strong pay driver is not too bad. It would not do good to Hulkenberg if Lotus is broke and builds another car that performs like a 2011 car.



Two Russian kids, Sirotkin and I can't remember the other ones name. Haven't even proved themselves in Gp2 never mind being front in the line for a first team seat in F1.
And Max chilton has apparently secured a load of money (12 million euros or something?) to secure his seat in F1, and to be honest, he's done nothing of note all season.


Sirotkin and Kvyat were already discussed in separate threads. Kvyat is a star of RedBull's junior program, and they only promote their own drivers into Toro Ross. Sirotkin gets the seat primarily for the sponsors.

[zako85]

...

[zako85]

The new investors want Lotus to hire Hulkenberg.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/197807/1/quantum_reveals_lotus_deal_imminent.html

[airshifter]

The new investors want Lotus to hire Hulkenberg.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/197807/1/quantum_reveals_lotus_deal_imminent.html

That sounds very promising. They also state they have spoken to both Kimi and his manager, and want to straighten out the money situation there to ensure Kimi completes the season in the Lotus. It sounds like a win/win situation for the team, and hopefully for Hulkenberg as well.

[steveaki13]

That would be great if they secure Hulkenberg for 2014. If they give him a top car then we will see what he's made of. If we don't have an idea already

[henners88]

What are your opinions on the potential for Magnussen to replace Perez for 2014?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/24844304

Seems a little harsh on Perez, but I suppose its good to see McLaren acting as its obvious Perez is under-performing. Magnussen's father Jan I remember well at Stewart and it was always said he never lived up to his potential, but his son certainly looks like he could. Should McLaren take a punt on the kid or give Perez one more season to prove himself?

[I am evil Homer]

I think he's better than his dad - won in everything he's raced. It would be interesting but I think it's a tad harsh on Perez who has been wildly inconsistent (which Mac must have known anyway from his Sauber days) but at times matched JB.

[Rollo]

Seems a little harsh on Perez, but I suppose its good to see McLaren acting as its obvious Perez is under-performing. Magnussen's father Jan I remember well at Stewart and it was always said he never lived up to his potential, but his son certainly looks like he could. Should McLaren take a punt on the kid or give Perez one more season to prove himself?

McLaren are in the same sort of position with Perez as they were with say Stefan Johansson in 1987. Johansson showed a lot of potential and was scoring second places with a fragile Ferarri, was signed for McLaren and although scored a few podiums, never broke through with the potential that he promised.

The MP4-28 is an entirely lacklustre car when compared to the field but Button has still been finding points in it far more regularly than Perez has. He's actually managed to achieve the bizarre and do worse in the McLaren in '13 than the Sauber he had in '12.

I could be wrong about this but I think that Button, Perez and Chilton are the only three drivers not to have retired in 2013. If the tow McLaren drivers had shown a little more anger, maybe they'd have been given better equipment. So far I've only really seen the red mist come down in Perez' helmet once and in F1, that really isn't good enough.

[555-04Q2]

He's actually managed to achieve the bizarre and do worse in the McLaren in '13 than the Sauber he had in '12.

It could be possible that the 2012 Sauber was an easier car to drive than the 2013 Macca. Let's face it, besides a few good stints in a few races, the Maccas have been nowhere this season :(

[AndyL]

I could be wrong about this but I think that Button, Perez and Chilton are the only three drivers not to have retired in 2013.

I seem to recall in one of the recent races Button retired very near the end of the race, so wouldn't have taken the chequered flag but would have been classified as a finisher. I could equally easily be wrong about that!

[steveaki13]

I think with where McLaren are this season and with JB around, it makes little difference between Perez and Magnussen. In a way while expectations are a bit lower I would take a punt and give the new guy a go and see if you could unearth the next big thing. Which Perez is not, but Magnussen just might be. Probably not but you never know until he races in F1. Why not take the chance with Honda coming in for 2015

[henners88]

It dawned on me earlier that if Kevin Magnussen gets a drive with McLaren, he'll be the first driver in F1 where I remember his dad also racing in the same sport. I'm too young for the Hill's or the Rosberg's, so this will be my first step to being an older fan :eek: :)

[steveaki13]

It dawned on me earlier that if Kevin Magnussen gets a drive with McLaren, he'll be the first driver in F1 where I remember his dad also racing in the same sport. I'm too young for the Hill's or the Rosberg's, so this will be my first step to being an older fan :eek: :)

Same here. :(

Wow. How do like being old Henners Old Boy. :p

[Rollo]

It dawned on me earlier that if Kevin Magnussen gets a drive with McLaren, he'll be the first driver in F1 where I remember his dad also racing in the same sport. I'm too young for the Hill's or the Rosberg's, so this will be my first step to being an older fan :eek: :)

I remember Keke at McLaren in the 1986 and this really is going to do my head in... Mansell, Rosberg and someone else... one particular GP had a moustached trio... which one was it?

Why does no-one keep those records for? Has there ever been a entire 'tash podium?

Addenda: The record for the most number of moustachioed points is 480 by Mansell. Let's see Alonso try to muck that one up.

[TheFamousEccles]

I think with where McLaren are this season and with JB around, it makes little difference between Perez and Magnussen. In a way while expectations are a bit lower I would take a punt and give the new guy a go and see if you could unearth the next big thing. Which Perez is not, but Magnussen just might be. Probably not but you never know until he races in F1. Why not take the chance with Honda coming in for 2015

Entirely agree. :skull:

[henners88]

It dawned on me earlier that if Kevin Magnussen gets a drive with McLaren, he'll be the first driver in F1 where I remember his dad also racing in the same sport. I'm too young for the Hill's or the Rosberg's, so this will be my first step to being an older fan :eek: :)

Same here. :(

Wow. How do like being old Henners Old Boy. :p
I do feel old, although I should be able to remember both Nakajima's but I was a little too young when Satoru was racing in the sport to remember him. I only remember the top guys from around that time. I suppose between 1988 and 1992 I watched races but couldn't follow closely due to my age, but 1993 was a season I remember really taking a deeper interest. I went to my first race that your too. :)

[Rollo]

I do feel old, although I should be able to remember both Nakajima's but I was a little too young when Satoru was racing in the sport to remember him. I only remember the top guys from around that time. I suppose between 1988 and 1992 I watched races but couldn't follow closely due to my age, but 1993 was a season I remember really taking a deeper interest. I went to my first race that your too. :)

Heh. Nakajima is a common enough name; so I didn't realise that Kazuki was Satoru's son.

Satoru drove alongside Senna and then Piquet at Lotus; then alongside Alesi at Tyrell. I think Satoru might have carried some of the first onboard cameras in 1987.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I seem to remember that Jan Magnussen was supposed to be the next Senna. But yeah, I think this would be the first father/son that I have seen both of.

Makes me seem old. I'm still hoping that McLaren spot me when I'm at an 'arrive and drive' session at the local karting club.

[easy rider]

The silly season seems to be still wide open and, undecided when it comes to Pastor Maldonado. If Pastor leaves Williams, and rumored to be replaced by Massa, where will he go now, because Lotus have let it be known without question, that they want Hulkenberg. Where is Maldonado going to park millions of those Venezuelan petrol Dollars?......Maybe back to Williams, and being teamed with Massa.....Bernie seems to really want a Brazilian driver to remain in the sport, especially since he made a new deal with Brazilan television.

[zako85]

The silly season seems to be still wide open and, undecided when it comes to Pastor Maldonado. If Pastor leaves Williams, and rumored to be replaced by Massa, where will he go now, because Lotus have let it be known without question, that they want Hulkenberg. Where is Maldonado going to park millions of those Venezuelan petrol Dollars?......Maybe back to Williams, and being teamed with Massa.....Bernie seems to really want a Brazilian driver to remain in the sport, especially since he made a new deal with Brazilan television.


I believe he also had interest in Sauber. Sauber is supposedly broke, so I wouldn't be surprised if they went with two pay drivers this next year.

[easy rider]

zako85.....I'm just glad that Maldonado's millions, didn't totally stop the Hulk from landing the Lotus ride.

[Ranger]

Massa signs for Williams.

Good move I think - hopefully they can design a half decent car next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111242

[Mia 01]

I think this was good news booth for Williams, Massa and the F1 wiewers.

On his day Massa is as good as Alonso.

[henners88]

Good for Massa. Let's have a decent car now Grove :)

[jas123f1]

The agreement is very well suited for Massa ... and Williams ... Massa's time as one of the "24" is not over in a few years .. Nice :)

[steveaki13]

Good for both partys. A good driver who still has something to offer. Good Luck Felipe Baby

[TMorel]

If only Williams could get Ross to join them too, ahhh I'd be a happy chappy with that combination :)

[N. Jones]

Good for Massa and Williams. I hope they score lots of points next season!

Also, Kimi is out for the next two GPS due to back surgery. Does this mean Valsecchi is in?

[Wasted Talent]

Could be good for both Massa and Williams. Seems to put Maldonado in the prime position for the Lotus seat now...

[dj_bytedisaster]

Massa signs for Williams.

Good move I think - hopefully they can design a half decent car next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111242

YESSSS !!! :bounce: :bounce:

[steveaki13]

Good for Massa and Williams. I hope they score lots of points next season!

Also, Kimi is out for the next two GPS due to back surgery. Does this mean Valsecchi is in?

I assume so.

Although some times teams by pass their 3rd driver and look for an out of work old boy.

[RS]

Autosport.com reporting the McLaren seat is Magnussens'

So what happens to Perez? Back to Sauber and Gutierrez gets the boot?

[truefan72]

Autosport.com reporting the McLaren seat is Magnussens'

So what happens to Perez? Back to Sauber and Gutierrez gets the boot?

yup, i think thats is what's going to happen. I think gutierrez stays as the 3rd driver


As to Massa, I'm surprised any team would sign him. I don't expect much from him in 2014. Her will suck all the way up until the last 5 races when it is clear his seat might be in trouble, then he will put in one or two good performances quell his doubters, and provide some fools gold to sign him for 2015, where the cycle repeats itself.

I think Maldonado goes to Caterham and joins Kovalainen there, which is made possible by the PDSV money.

It is a shame we don't have 2 more F1 teams as was promised. Especially with the brand new 2014 regs in place, it would have been a perfect opportunity. if only a Gp2 team like Dams or ART or Russian Time could be elevated to an f1 team.

[Tazio]

Happy for Felipe, I hope he has a good year!

[Koz]

As to Massa, I'm surprised any team would sign him. I don't expect much from him in 2014. Her will suck all the way up until the last 5 races when it is clear his seat might be in trouble, then he will put in one or two good performances quell his doubters, and provide some fools gold to sign him for 2015, where the cycle repeats itself.


Is Massa brining in any money? Experian want a Brazilian?
Other than that, I can't see any reason anyone would bother with him.

[Robinho]

Massa, for us, will provide a useful benchmark for Bottas, we know he is pretty quick, on a par if not better than maldanado in my opinion. So if he keeps up with, or beats Massa, then we have a decent idea how good he really is. These comparisonsa re always interesting, either wen a rookie steps up to a big team, or an established driver drops down to a lesser tea,. As for Massa in general, he is a known quantitty, he is a race winner, albeit a way back now, but has shown this year, he still has the speed to keep Alonso honest on occasions. I'd take that over Pastor any day, although I think there are better options out there, maybe not available to Williams these days

[henners88]

I did feel Perez deserved another season at McLaren seeing as the car has been a dog this year. Its hard for a relatively unproven driver to prove himself in a troublesome car IMO. Then again its refreshing to see McLaren be ruthless in order to seek success. Magnussen is a promising talent just like his father was, so it'll be interesting to see what he brings. It was no secret Perez caused tension on a few occasions with his wheel banging duels on his team mate, but then again Jenson I feel has under performed this season too. Kevin has massive pressure on him and I hope he can cope with that. McLaren evidently want instant success and will not have much patience for a new driver settling in, plus he will possibly be compared with Hamilton's entry into the team.

It'll be exciting to see what Kevin can do, but I also wonder what will happen to Sergio. Back to Sauber? I hope this isn't another Heikki where he'll slip to the back of the grid and then off the end completely.

PS: Interesting fact... Jan drove for McLaren Mercedes in its first year and Kevin will drive for them in its last. :)

[philipbain]

I don't understand why people are so quick to rubbish Maldonado, after all, he won the GP2 title before graduating to F1 and won a race, in a Williams! True, the planets might have aligned for Maldonado's win in Spain, but if you win a GP in a car that is not the quickest on the grid then this is usually the case anyhow but IMO you can't win a GP and not be a decent driver. Yes, he has backing which has undoubtedly eased his way to F1 but without talent he wouldn't even be on the grid.

Same goes with Massa, yes, he has underperformed against Alonso, but I feel that if you put the rest of the drivers in F1 against Alonso in the same team that few would do as well, perhaps only Raikonnen, Vettel and Hamilton could live with that sort of pace, add in the factor that IMO Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid (combining experience, dependability, race craft and pace) and even they would struggle over the balance of an entire season, as we will undoubtedly see when Raikonnen re-joins Ferrari next season. I wish Massa all the best at Williams, lets hope his knowledge and experience can make him a good team leader as Williams starts a new Mercedes powered post-Coughlan era.

As for Perez and McLaren, I think McLaren have come to realise something that I suspected all along, that he was somewhat flattered by a 2012 Sauber that punched above it's weight, the fact that he wasnt definitively superior over Kobayashi (a competent and entertaining battler of a driver but certainly not a top team talent) is what did it for me, I remember thinking at the time that McLaren signed him that it could be a massive mis-step, however I was hoping for Sergio's sake that being in a McLaren would perhaps take his driving to the next level. Unfortunately McLaren's car this season has been uncompetitive which made a difficult task near enough impossible, F1 isnt very forgiving at the best of times and ultimately McLaren are looking into the medium to long term and rightly believe that Magnussen is a potential star.

As for how all this will shake out, Perez back to Sauber seems logical, the Mexican sponsors will certainly want that. As for Maldonado, it isnt clear where he'll end up, Lotus have had the green light from thier new investor to sign Hulkenburg and Grosjean has been more or less confirmed and richly deserves the seat, for me he is the most improved driver of 2013. That leaves Force India as the most desirable destination for Maldonado, with Caterham another possibility, though their lack of competitiveness is likely to be an issue as Pastor publically said he would rather not compete than be uncompetitive. Intreresting times indeed in the F1 driver market.

[henners88]

I suppose we also have to remember Perez was very much a knee jerk signing for McLaren. They had just lost one of the best drivers in Formula One and needed a signing quick. Perez had impressed at some races in 2012, but ironically underperformed in the latter races once the deal had been announced. He's shown glimpses of speed but lacks the most important thing of all, consistency. I would have perhaps given him another season, however I can see why McLaren would be willing to try another driver off the back of a poor season.

Massa to Williams is a great signing in my opinion. He's a decent driver even if mentally he suffers more than most. He had his accident and on returning, he had arguably the best driver in the sport as his new team mate. The emotional and strategic support he once enjoyed was then demoted to second driver, so he's had an awful lot to deal with. Hopefully at Williams they will enjoy a bit more pace with the Mercedes power plant and maybe we'll see Massa score a podium in the next two years? Seems way off but you never know.

I still can't believe some of the top teams have passed on Hulkenburg! McLaren could have taken the easy option and signed him on a years deal like Perez with the option for year 2 and put Magnussen in a test role for longer. Button hasn't got many more season's in him I don't think and a Hulk Magnussen future has potential IMO.

[zako85]

Firing Perez right now in favor of some young and unproven talent from lower series is also known as "throwing the current driver under the bus for the team's sins". Perez may have failed to beat the highly accomplished and experienced team leader, but the failure of the team to produce a competitive car was even more significant. McLaren managed to build its worst car of many decades. Now I am glad that I am not going to the USGP. It's a true lame duck season in full swing. Besides the useless obsolete cars that no one wants to improve... Perez, Raikkonen, Massa, and Maldonado.. all of these guys have no good reason to race hard any more because of what's happening in the silly season.

[Eunos]

Interesting

So it looks like there's not a lot of Seats left now for 2014 with Perez, Maldanado and Di Resta not garrentied for 2014 yet.

I kinda have mixed opinions on The whole Perez/McLaren situation.

Personally I think Perez should have been given a 2nd Season, It's pretty hard to impress when The Car has been an absolute pile of crap this season. I do feel in a better McLaren Perez could have been a regular Podium finisher and even get a Race win, Guess his best option for now is go back to Sauber do your best there for a year or 2 and perhaps Get his opportunity at Ferrari in afew years time like it was looking like for alittle while last year.

Massa at Williams, Depends if Williams can design a good car next year, I give Massa credit for coming back after what could have been a fatal accident, but to be honest I've noticed his only really good when the Car's good, When Ferrari had a good car he was right up there, however during their slumps he was nowhere to be seen whilst Alonso was pushing it to it's limits, None the less I'll be fair and see how he fairs at Williams.

Still hoping Paul Di Resta will remain on the grid for 2014, He was looking pretty strong at the start of the season but unfortunately had abit of a mid season slump but seems to be picking up again , Hoping he will stick with Force India, If not I guess it's back to DTM.

Still hoping Kobayashi will return to Formula 1 in the future, was disappointed he wasn't on the grid this year.

None the less 2014 is already looking interesting :)

[Ranger]

Hopefully Perez can land somewhere.

It seems a bit harsh, given that McLaren built what is essentially their worst car since 1980.

[555-04Q2]

Yeah Perez is getting a rather raw deal here.

[acescribe]

Thing is; much like Red Bull/Toro Rosso with Kyvat, McLaren know they have a potential superstar on their hands with Magnussen and to leave him out, as a third driver or place him with a back of the grid team could be counter productive for all parties. With the new rules next year they need someone with experience (Button) but seriously need to try and bring on a driver from their own programme too.

Alas for Perez, he has got a rough deal but it could be argued that he did have his one shot this year, he wasn't close enough to Button and that was that. There is a chance Sergio could actually find himself out in the cold regarding F1 now. I do not see a return to Sauber that likely.

[Mia 01]

Have MacLaren confirmed Magnusson yet?

[truefan72]

I don't understand why people are so quick to rubbish Maldonado, after all, he won the GP2 title before graduating to F1 and won a race, in a Williams! True, the planets might have aligned for Maldonado's win in Spain, but if you win a GP in a car that is not the quickest on the grid then this is usually the case anyhow but IMO you can't win a GP and not be a decent driver. Yes, he has backing which has undoubtedly eased his way to F1 but without talent he wouldn't even be on the grid.

Same goes with Massa, yes, he has underperformed against Alonso, but I feel that if you put the rest of the drivers in F1 against Alonso in the same team that few would do as well, perhaps only Raikonnen, Vettel and Hamilton could live with that sort of pace, add in the factor that IMO Alonso is the most complete driver on the grid (combining experience, dependability, race craft and pace) and even they would struggle over the balance of an entire season, as we will undoubtedly see when Raikonnen re-joins Ferrari next season. I wish Massa all the best at Williams, lets hope his knowledge and experience can make him a good team leader as Williams starts a new Mercedes powered post-Coughlan era.

As for Perez and McLaren, I think McLaren have come to realise something that I suspected all along, that he was somewhat flattered by a 2012 Sauber that punched above it's weight, the fact that he wasnt definitively superior over Kobayashi (a competent and entertaining battler of a driver but certainly not a top team talent) is what did it for me, I remember thinking at the time that McLaren signed him that it could be a massive mis-step, however I was hoping for Sergio's sake that being in a McLaren would perhaps take his driving to the next level. Unfortunately McLaren's car this season has been uncompetitive which made a difficult task near enough impossible, F1 isnt very forgiving at the best of times and ultimately McLaren are looking into the medium to long term and rightly believe that Magnussen is a potential star.

As for how all this will shake out, Perez back to Sauber seems logical, the Mexican sponsors will certainly want that. As for Maldonado, it isnt clear where he'll end up, Lotus have had the green light from thier new investor to sign Hulkenburg and Grosjean has been more or less confirmed and richly deserves the seat, for me he is the most improved driver of 2013. That leaves Force India as the most desirable destination for Maldonado, with Caterham another possibility, though their lack of competitiveness is likely to be an issue as Pastor publically said he would rather not compete than be uncompetitive. Intreresting times indeed in the F1 driver market.

all points are spot on

I forgot about force india. That might be a logical place for maldonado, and we might see either diresta or sutil out of a seat. Sutil is by far the more consistent of the pair and has suffered from some horrible luck this year. DiResta can be quick, very quick, but has put in some real stinkers too. If Maldonado goes there it will be a 50/50 thing as to who goes. If Sutil leaves, I'm not sure there will be a seat for him in F1, but If Dirsta goes, I can see him landing at caterham or as the Mclaren 3rd driver eventually taking over the button seat in 2015. but I honestly feel that Maldonado might be at caterham, or out of F1 for 2014. It's a shame really because the guy is very quick; a bonehead, yes, but on his day, a race winner for sure.

[truefan72]

I suppose we also have to remember Perez was very much a knee jerk signing for McLaren. They had just lost one of the best drivers in Formula One and needed a signing quick. Perez had impressed at some races in 2012, but ironically underperformed in the latter races once the deal had been announced. He's shown glimpses of speed but lacks the most important thing of all, consistency. I would have perhaps given him another season, however I can see why McLaren would be willing to try another driver off the back of a poor season.
agreed, I thought so much at the time of the signing. At that time I thought that hulkenberg was a better choice than Perez. I also thought perez would have benefitted from another year at Sauber. But all that being said. I think they completely threw this lad under the bus. The 2013 car was the real dog here. and IMO if button didn;t have the contract he does, he would have been let go. A Perez magnussen pairing at Mclaren with a decent car is much better than any one with Button at this point.


Massa to Williams is a great signing in my opinion. He's a decent driver even if mentally he suffers more than most. He had his accident and on returning, he had arguably the best driver in the sport as his new team mate. The emotional and strategic support he once enjoyed was then demoted to second driver, so he's had an awful lot to deal with. Hopefully at Williams they will enjoy a bit more pace with the Mercedes power plant and maybe we'll see Massa score a podium in the next two years? Seems way off but you never know.
I cannot be convinced that massa is deserving of an F1 seat. Unless smedley joins them to guide him through every lap and gear change. I suspect Williams will slightly skew the new car towards a massa setup so hew will have that to his advantage, but I still would wager that bottas will get the better of him in 2014

[easy rider]

philipbain......Maldonado didn't win the GP2 championship in his first attempt, like Hamilton, Rosberg and Hulkenberg, which could be an indicator of a drivers talent. The planet's did align itself for Pastor's first win at Spain, and was helped by Mclaren's screwing up Lewis's fuel amount, which cost him a pole position, after a very dominating performance on his part.

I really came to despise Maldonado after that deliberate , imbecilic chopping move that he made on Lewis, during qualifying at Spa for the 2011 Belgian GP. I felt that...DUMBASS...with such a dangerous move like that, should have been banned for the rest of the season.

http://vimeo.com/44828857

[555-04Q2]

http://vimeo.com/44828857

That was just a friendly "how's your father" move ;) :p:

[zako85]

I really came to despise Maldonado after that deliberate , imbecilic chopping move that he made on Lewis, during qualifying at Spa for the 2011 Belgian GP. I felt that...DUMBASS...with such a dangerous move like that, should have been banned for the rest of the season.

http://vimeo.com/44828857


I remember seeing that. I thought, WTF, the guy can't control himself on the track. The right thing to do would have been to get out of the car first, and then punch Hamilton in the face, NASCAR style, like Senna did to Irvine in 1993.

[zako85]

Alas for Perez, he has got a rough deal but it could be argued that he did have his one shot this year, he wasn't close enough to Button and that was that. There is a chance Sergio could actually find himself out in the cold regarding F1 now. I do not see a return to Sauber that likely.

You can argue on each side of this matter. Maybe Perez got a rough deal.. or maybe he just brought this upon himself. In the end, he still deserves to be in F1. Considering how much money matters these days, if his Mexican sponsors are still on board with him, we can see Perez in F1 in 2014 or 2015. I wouldn't be surprised if Gutierrez was sacked and replaced with Perez at Sauber eventually.

[zako85]

I found this linked from thejudge13's blog.

A compilation of Maldonado's finest moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIf-dHbKpFI

[henners88]

I really came to despise Maldonado after that deliberate , imbecilic chopping move that he made on Lewis, during qualifying at Spa for the 2011 Belgian GP. I felt that...DUMBASS...with such a dangerous move like that, should have been banned for the rest of the season.

http://vimeo.com/44828857


I remember seeing that. I thought, WTF, the guy can't control himself on the track. The right thing to do would have been to get out of the car first, and then punch Hamilton in the face, NASCAR style, like Senna did to Irvine in 1993.
I wouldn't condone that at all from either side, but I think Hamilton had more of a case to be angry than Pastor in that incident. Hamilton was on the end of a qualifying lap and Pastor was at the rear of a train of slow moving cars and should have made room. Lewis went past and Pastor attempted to squeeze him and when it didn't work, he decided to retaliate on the slow down lap. He should have had a one race ban for that and a couple of other incidents he'd already been involved in that season.

[RS]

Perez and Maldonado would be a lucrative and decent lineup for Sauber. Hopefully the new investors might realise this would be better for the team than forcing Sirotkin in too early. Give him Friday drives at every GP if necessary.

[philipbain]

In the latest bizarre twist in the 2014 driver market, it now appears as though talks between Lotus and Hulkenberg have fallen through, at least in terms of filling in for Raikonnen at Lotus for the remainder of the season. In the short term this has opened the door to Heikki Kovalainen to fill in for Kimi Raikonnen for the final 2 races of the season, though this may not be confirmed until tomorrow whilst Lotus sorts out some contractual issues.

Whether or not Hulkenberg is still in the frame for a 2014 drive at Lotus remains unclear though it must now be in doubt, the Quantum investment deal in Lotus is still not done and "insiders" have their doubts whether it will happen at all. In these circumstances the drive will go to Maldonado as the team will require the generous sponsorship package that comes with him! This will leave Hulkenberg in a tenuous position, he could stay at Sauber, though this may hinge on sponsorship again, if Sauber decide that their young russian charge is ready for F1 then this leaves one seat, one that is likely to go to Perez in order to maintain thier Mexcian sponsorship, this leaves a return to Force India as his only remaining option, a far cry from the speculation earlier this season that he could end up at Ferrari and a crying shame, he's obviously a top drawer talent, he just needs a top drawer drive!

[RS]

Perez definitely out of McLaren: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111281

A very dignified statement by him. I feel a little sorry for him now, but he hasn't matched Jenson and he is in his third year of F1. I think they are looking for an explosive new talent, like Hamilton was or Marquez in MotoGP this year.

Hope Perez find a drive somewhere, he is surely more worthy of the Sauber seat than Gutierrez, or Sirotkin!

[N. Jones]

I still think Perez should have stayed a Sauber one more year. I do agree that he is getting the shaft.
Oh well. I hope he ends up somewhere else and can continue to develop.

[easy rider]

I remember seeing that. I thought, WTF, the guy can't control himself on the track. The right thing to do would have been to get out of the car first, and then punch Hamilton in the face, NASCAR style, like Senna did to Irvine in 1993.


Punch Lewis....that would again be just another bad move by Maldonado, because it seems as though that as a young kid, Hamilton took up Karate, and has a black belt... :D

[easy rider]

Hopefully the Quantum deal with Lotus doesn't fall through, and the loss of Hulkenberg. Nico's loss would weaken the strength of team Lotus drivers lineup, with a Maldonado appointment.

[henners88]

I hope Heikki does well enough in the remaining two races for Lotus to get some interest from other teams. It seems Lotus asked Schumacher to drive for the rest of the season and he turned it down. I would have asked Heikki first simply because I feel he has more to offer at this stage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/24935646

[555-04Q2]

I hope Heikki does well enough in the remaining two races for Lotus to get some interest from other teams. It seems Lotus asked Schumacher to drive for the rest of the season and he turned it down. I would have asked Heikki first simply because I feel he has more to offer at this stage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/24935646

If they had got The Shoe it would have been for publicity, nothing more. Would have been a pointless exercise!

[philipbain]

McLaren have now confirmed Kevin Magnussen & Jenson Button for the 2014 season: http://tinyurl.com/ojuk2zj

This leaves the following seats unconfirmed:

Lotus F1 - both

Sauber - both

Force India - both

Catherham - both

Marussia - Bianchi confirmed, one seat unconfirmed

[acescribe]

McLaren have now confirmed Kevin Magnussen & Jenson Button for the 2014 season: http://tinyurl.com/ojuk2zj

This leaves the following seats unconfirmed:

Lotus F1 - both

Sauber - both

Force India - both

Catherham - both

Marussia - Bianchi confirmed, one seat unconfirmed

I feel sure that I read/saw that Grosjean had been (at least pretty much) confirmed for next season?

[truefan72]

McLaren have now confirmed Kevin Magnussen & Jenson Button for the 2014 season: http://tinyurl.com/ojuk2zj

This leaves the following seats unconfirmed:

Lotus F1 - both

Sauber - both

Force India - both

Catherham - both

Marussia - Bianchi confirmed, one seat unconfirmed


I feel sure that I read/saw that Grosjean had been (at least pretty much) confirmed for next season?

yup

[philipbain]

I feel sure that I read/saw that Grosjean had been (at least pretty much) confirmed for next season?

Yes, you are right that Grosjean's manager / team boss has more or less confirmed it but with no official announcement I am not taking anything for granted, on that basis you could have confirmed Button and Perez at McLaren pre-Austin!

[philipbain]

Just been thinking about the Perez situation. His options are limited in F1 and any option will be sponsorship dependant, I won't go over the F1 options, we all know which seats are available and the various manoeuvrings that have happened and indeed are likely to happen depending on who gets confirmed where and when.

An interesting development has left a top Indycar seat available, Dario Franchitti has been forced to retire with immediate effect as he has had one monumental accident too many and being 40 now he simply won't bounce back and the doctors were concerned that his injuries could leave him permanently disabled in later life. This leaves his seat vacant at Target Chip Ganassi Racing, one of the finest teams in the Indycar Championship. Wouldn't they (and more to the point Indycar as a whole) love to have Mexico's best known & arguably most talented current driver in thier car? The commercial possibilities are fantastic, the Indycar series happens in Mexico's time zone and i'm sure if demand dictated it they could find room for a round in Mexico (after all, CART / Champ Car raced in Mexico a lot before reunification for the 2008 season) too. For me, outside F1, this would make sense for everyone involved.

[longisland]

Lotus needs a driver to deliver podiums & wins in order to move up the constructors' standing.
With All due respect, Heikki is a GP winner & his vast experience is invaluable to a team.
That said, we still recalled Luca Badoa & to a lesser extent with De La Rosa & D'Ambrosio.
IMHO, Rubens is a plausible alternative. He is the most experience race driver in F1.
The only concern is his fitness; however, he will be extra motivated knowing Michael not taking up the offer.

[jens]

The hiring of Magnussen is intriguing. Reminds me, when Rosberg, Hamilton and Kovalainen made their F1 debuts in teams, which were very highly rated at the time. But teams believed in their potential and that they could deliver even despite having a rookie season. The additional obstacle for Magnussen is that there is lack of testing these days. It took even Hülkenberg half a year to get up-to-speed back in 2010 in the Williams.

However, Magnussen is no paydriver and hired on pure merit, by a (potentially) top team. Fascinating. Looking forward to what he can do.

Pity for Pérez. To be frank, he always seemed a bit inconsistent, but not out-of-his-depth on F1 level. I think he would be a fine signing for a midfield team even regardless of the budget he brings.

But let's see, how does the driving seats money-go-round conclude this year with Hülkenberg being first in the queue waiting for his fate. It looks as though as Maldonado just pips him for the Lotus seat. Lotus/Bouiller can be relieved at least Grosjean has actually upped his game this year, because if you had Grosjean-Maldonado line-up based on their 2012 form... you'd need to use a calculator during the season to estimate, how many points were potentially lost.

[jens]

I hope Heikki does well enough in the remaining two races for Lotus to get some interest from other teams. It seems Lotus asked Schumacher to drive for the rest of the season and he turned it down. I would have asked Heikki first simply because I feel he has more to offer at this stage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/24935646

If even a moneyless Hülkenberg has trouble finding a seat, I do not see many chances for Kovalainen on the driver market. Maybe Caterham again depending on their financial situation.

[RS]

They were talking on Sky today about the rumour that Hulkenburg may go back to Force India; another sideways move and could potentially backfire again now that Sauber are starting to look competitive.

When's this guy gonna get a break with a big team?

Hope the chances for the Lotus seat aren't over for him.

[AndyL]

It seems Hulkenberg's place in F1 is safe - he can stay at Sauber if he wants to:
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24227 ... e-wants-it (http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24227/9029767/nico-hulkenberg-welcomes-monisha-kaltenborn-offer-of-sauber-seat-for-2014-if-he-wants-it)

[Parshva]

Rbr vettel n ricciardo

Ferrari alonso n kimi

Lotus grosjean n hulkenberg

Merecedes rosberg n lewis

[steveaki13]

Welcome to the forums.

You reckon Hulkenberg still has a chance of beating Maldonado to the Lotus seat. I hope so personally too.

[N. Jones]

Same here. Maldonado, for all of his flaws, is a race winner.

[Parshva]

Maldonado is a race winner but hulkenberg given a better car is as good a driver as vettel.
And u know for.sure maldonado ain't getting lotus if not kovalainen

[Parshva]

What about kobayashi?

[Parshva]

Romain and maldonado really? Too many nutsacks in a team :D

[Wasted Talent]

Same here. Maldonado, for all of his flaws, is a race winner.

I think Hulkenburg could/should have won in Brazil last year. If I remember correctly he only ended up behind Hamilton due to the safety car, he and Jenson were miles ahead before they brought it out for the debris on track.

[N. Jones]

Yeah, I know Hulkenberg is the better driver but I think Maldonado's money, if he still has it, will probably be the difference.

[truefan72]

If I were hulkenberg, I would sign for lotus anyway
and even if they don;t pay me, I'll figure something out
Lotus gives him a very real chances at race victories despite all their troubles
and he has done his fair share of being paid but in midfield cars

he has to decide very quickly what is more important to him right now,
an opportunity to win races or to getting paid guaranteed.

I'd take the former, at least for the first year and then put myself in the position to get another top seat the next year depending on the way things shake out.
Being offered a top seat is a rare opportunity and as it stands lotus is right now the 2nd strongest car on the grid. Be smart Hulkenberg, just sign with them and then sort out the money later.

who knows, a german sponsor ro two could take care of his compensation.

[RS]

It's not that simple Truefan; Maldonado allegedly has a sponsorship budget of tens of millions of dollars, so Hulkenburg offering to drive for free is not going to close that gap.

[philipbain]

Just been thinking about the Perez situation. His options are limited in F1 and any option will be sponsorship dependant, I won't go over the F1 options, we all know which seats are available and the various manoeuvrings that have happened and indeed are likely to happen depending on who gets confirmed where and when.

An interesting development has left a top Indycar seat available, Dario Franchitti has been forced to retire with immediate effect as he has had one monumental accident too many and being 40 now he simply won't bounce back and the doctors were concerned that his injuries could leave him permanently disabled in later life. This leaves his seat vacant at Target Chip Ganassi Racing, one of the finest teams in the Indycar Championship. Wouldn't they (and more to the point Indycar as a whole) love to have Mexico's best known & arguably most talented current driver in thier car? The commercial possibilities are fantastic, the Indycar series happens in Mexico's time zone and i'm sure if demand dictated it they could find room for a round in Mexico (after all, CART / Champ Car raced in Mexico a lot before reunification for the 2008 season) too. For me, outside F1, this would make sense for everyone involved.

Autosport have reported that Perez is open to an Indycar move..... 5 days after I suggested that very thing! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111479

[truefan72]

It's not that simple Truefan; Maldonado allegedly has a sponsorship budget of tens of millions of dollars, so Hulkenburg offering to drive for free is not going to close that gap.


a fair point

I would have Nico tell them that he gives them a better chance at winning and staying close to the top...then again maldonado has already won a race, and if not of his bonehead antics, could have had maybe another one as well.

I do hope they both land a drive. Hulkenberg at Renault and Maldonado at force india.

[Mia 01]

What, Jenson. He will drive a MacLaren next year as far as i know. Í like him. But, 2015, Alonso will drive his car am afraid.

[RS]

Reading between the lines it sounds as if Hulkenberg is not expecting to land the Lotus seat, Sutil claims to be remaining at Force India, and di Resta is contemplating life outside of F1; so it seems that it will be:

Lotus:
Grosjean
Maldonado

Force India:
Hulkenberg
Sutil

[zako85]

What, Jenson. He will drive a MacLaren next year as far as i know. Í like him. But, 2015, Alonso will drive his car am afraid.

After all the years he raced and all things he has accomplished, it wouldn't be a bad end of career for Jenson. In the end, everyone has to exit eventually. A bad end would be to linger forever driving uncompetitive cars in the back, like Alesi or Villeneuve.

[zako85]

Autosport have reported that Perez is open to an Indycar move..... 5 days after I suggested that very thing! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111479

I am afraid IndyCar could be a one way ticket for a driver like Perez. I would have preferred to see him in F1, even if that could mean driving for Caterham or Marussia. There is still room to impress even in those cars. Whoever scores the first point in those cars will become a relatively respected and valuable driver. At the same time, a Mexican driver wouldn't be a bad thing for IndyCar considering the number of Mexican-Americans and Mexicans who don't watch IndyCar racing right now. It would be interesting to see what a young decent driver out of the top F1 team can accomplish in IndyCar. The Myth of Formula 1 drivers being a head and shoulders above all others hasn't materialized recently, with Takuma Sato and Barrichello having pretty average seasons last year. Sato impressed this year with his first win though, but reliability and consistency is somewhere on Maldonado's level.

[Koz]

TEST

[Parshva]

I do hope they both land a drive. Hulkenberg at Renault and Maldonado at force india.

lol reversed poor hulk

[Parshva]

rain affected last qualy bad :(

[RS]

Latest news/rumours suggest it's:

Force India: Hulkenberg/Perez
Lotus: Maldonado/Grosjean
Sauber: Sutil + 1

[N. Jones]

Planet-f1.com states that Martin Whitmarsh accidentally let slip that Sergio will be driving for Force India next season.
Please, PLEASE do not let Pastor go to Lotus, that car is too good for him!

[jarrambide]

Planet-f1.com states that Martin Whitmarsh accidentally let slip that Sergio will be driving for Force India next season.
Please, PLEASE do not let Pastor go to Lotus, that car is too good for him!
I like Lotus and wanted so much a Grosjean Hulkenberg combo, a Grosjean Perez combo isn't bad either, specially after seeing how Grosjean went from public enemy #1 to a very good driver and his words about some drivers needing more time to mature, I'm thinking maybe Perez can be the next Grosjean, and those 2 together would be lots of fun or mayhem.

What I don't want is Maldonado near a Lotus, but I don't want him near Sauber, or Force India, or a Williams, pretty much 9 teams are too good for him.

A Hulkenberg Perez combo at Force India could be very interesting, I'm sure those two could make FI a very good team with the new rules. I wanted The Hulk in a better team, but I can see those 2 having a good year with FI is they yake advantage of the new rules for everyone, I'm not talking about FI fighting for the championship, but at least a few podiums.

[zako85]

The scramble going on for the Lotus, Sauber, and Force India seats is pretty mad. There is even a rumor that even Grosjean's seat at Lotus is not safe. The Quantum investment deal at Lotus is what probably has been delaying everything. I haven't seen such confusing silly season for some time. Clearly, money has to do with it a lot, so I think Maldonado will continue in F1 next year.

Sutil to Sauber is one of stranger news. Why does Sauber suddenly want Sutil considering they probably could have hired Hulkenberg or Perez?

[RS]

Sutil to Sauber is one of stranger news. Why does Sauber suddenly want Sutil considering they probably could have hired Hulkenberg or Perez?

Medion?

I'm sure they would want to keep Hulkenberg if they could, but Sutil is a decent driver who has some money behind him too.

[AndyL]

Sutil to Sauber is one of stranger news. Why does Sauber suddenly want Sutil considering they probably could have hired Hulkenberg or Perez?

Monisha Kaltenborn said that Hulkenberg's seat was safe if he wanted to stay, so I guess it was Nico's decision.

Based on the Hulk's luck and his previous switch the other way, I'd say this probably means Sauber will have the faster car next year :)

[RS]

Based on the Hulk's luck and his previous switch the other way, I'd say this probably means Sauber will have the faster car next year :)

I'm worried about this too; the Sauber has actually looked pretty good for the second half of the season..

[RS]

I can't imagine Kovalainen is going to be driving for Caterham next year after his performance at Lotus and Caterham losing the money for 10th place in the constructors :(

[truefan72]

well it looks like maldonado to lotus is all but a formality with an announcement predicted to come sometime this week.
Shame really because I think that if Hulkenberg would have gotten that drive, he would surely win at least 1 GP next year if the team manages to maintain its form. Speaking of quality teams, I think ti also a mistake if Hulkenberg switches back to Force India. I honestly feel that Sauber is still the better package. They have better personnel, better infrastructure and usually don;t deliver 2 bad cars in a row. Given Hulkneberg's luck, I can just see Sauber doing very well next year will Force India takes yet another step back.

Perez seems all but sure to be in that Force India seat alongside Hulkenberg, with sutil and his 9 lives securing the other Sauber seat. Only because he brings funding to the team, otherwhise, I could clearly see DiResta in that seat. As to DiResta, I think it would be wise of him to take up a 3rd driver role at Mercedes and see what 2015 looks like. With the new tersting rules in place, he would get some time in the car throughout the year.

[jens]

I'm worried about this too; the Sauber has actually looked pretty good for the second half of the season..

To be honest, this doesn't mean anything, especially considering we have rule changes. It sounds like someone saying in 2008 that Toro Rosso and Renault would be great in 2009, because they improved a lot in the second half of 2008 and were fast.

Well, we remember, how this thing really was...

[truefan72]

Sutil Joins Sauber
leaving only the other Sauber seat as the remaining quality slot

I would love to see Kobayashi snag that seat. but I think gutierrez might retain his seat ( and the money that comes with him)

[N. Jones]

What has Sutil done to deserve any seat? He was out scored AND out qualified by di Resta!

[DazzlaF1]

What has Sutil done to deserve any seat? He was out scored AND out qualified by di Resta!

You only need to look at his race cap to see why, he brings sponsorship

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/07/article-0-1B00F7C9000005DC-709_634x430.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

What has Sutil done to deserve any seat? He was out scored AND out qualified by di Resta!

Mainly he has no history of moaning about the team in public, that counts for a lot. He also wasn't as bad as the numbers made him look. Remember that he basically dropped off the lead in Australia, when the Pirelli's went jello after just 5 laps. Had he scored a podium or even a win, you wouldn't ask that question.
I don't think money is the deciding factor. Yes he brings a bit of Medion sponsor money with him, but it's nowhere near the amount of Moullah you could pick up with Maldonado or van der Garde. On top of that - DiResta is a Mercedes man with a long history of working with the Germans. That doesn't probably sit too well with Ferrari, too. Third: In contrast to DiResta, Sutil is somewhat reliable. DiResta is either really good or just spectacularily bad, nothing in between, while with Sutil you can reliably expect a bit of base performance. That's exactly what you need in a year where so much changes.

[N. Jones]

Force India use Mercedes engines and are getting help from McLaren if I am not mistaken.

[zako85]

Force India had too many mishaps and too much bad luck early in the season, although I don't remember any more which one of the drivers was hurt the most by this. There was the race where the wheel nuts got stuck and another race where the cars were both accidentally called into pits. Some DNFs, etc. Sutil definitely should stay because he has the hottest gf.

[RS]

Gutierrez confirmed at Sauber; good move. He had a dodgy start but got better as the year went on and is surely more suited to the second seat than Sirotkin (who is test driver)

[Eunos]

So that's pretty much all the Seats that actually give you a chance to score Championship points taken then.

Looks like it's back to DTM for Di Resta unless he wants to spend a season stuck at the back of the grid.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I'm surprised this one hasn't been reported yet (though I may have missed it): Kamui Kobayashi has reportedly been seen at Caterham's Leafield HQ for a seat-fitting. They have been further reported to be letting go of both Pic and van der Garde, and are said to have been in talks with perennial GP2 nearly-man Marcus Ericsson. Why, I have no idea, but I do have my theories. Sponsorship is of course part of it, but I suspect Caterham are more interested in a specific sponsor. Ericsson was sponsored by Olsbergs MSE when he was racing for iSport, and Caterham might be looking to them as a potential partner for their road car division. That's the only explanation I can think of for their (potentially) picking Ericsson over Pic and van der Garde and the likes of Felipe Nasr and Sam Bird.

The second Marussia seat is even harder to call. McLaren shopped around and tried to place Kevin Magnussen at a few teams, including Marussia, but got no takers. It was suggested that if they had placed Magnussen at Force India, then they might have been able to place Stoffel Vandoorne at Marussia. But since Marussia would not take their first choice, Magnussen, I cannot see them being willing to take McLaren's second choice, Vandoorne. Max Chilton publicly breathed a sigh of relief on Twitter when Magnussen scored the McLaren seat, but his father has since left AON Insurance, so there are now question marks lingering over his head. Since I suspect McLaren want Magnussen and Vandoorne in their team for 2015, I think they might push Marussia to take Vandoorne, and maybe evencoax the team over to Honda power next year. That would also give them access to Jules Bianchi, and any combination of Magnussen, Vandoorne and Bianchi in a McLaren will give them one of the most exciting line-ups in years.

[RS]

Lotus absent for the first test. That's a big miss for this year considering the rule changes.

[easy rider]

It looks as if Kimi after all has made the right move, by moving to the Scuderia.

[RS]

Chilton confirmed at Marussia.

[steveaki13]

To be honest as much as I like Max Chilton. I am not sure he did enough to earn a seat for 2014, but it at least gives him stability to improve.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

It looks as if Kimi after all has made the right move, by moving to the Scuderia.
And Ferrari made the wrong decision in taking him.

Alonso has the support of Luca di Montezemolo. Raikkonen has the backing if Stefano Domenicali. With Ferrari having struggled to win a title since 2008, Domenicali is under pressure to perform. By supporting Raikkonen, his fate is tied to the Finn. That will bring him into opposition with di Montezemolo, who pretty much *is* Ferrari, and has already laid down the law by saying Raikkonen was taken to score points rather than win titles in his Christmas address. Domenicali, on the other hand, lobbied for Raikkonen to get the seat over Hulkenberg, who was di Montezemolo's choice, and since di Montezemolo usually gets his way, taking Raikkonen was a major coup for Domenicali. So the battle between Alonso and Raikkonen will be the battle for Ferrari's soul, because it's really a proxy war being fought between di Montezemolo and Domenicali. Di Montezemolo wields considerable influence over the team, but Domenicali has the luxury of directly influencing things day-to-day.

None of this bodes well for their championship campaign, because the winner of the intra-team battle will reaffirm his backer's influence over the team. Domenicali has much more to lose than di Montezemolo, so if Alonso out-performs Raikkonen this year, both Raikkonen and Domenicali could be looking for alternative forms of employment in 2015.

[Koz]

Maybe...

Or maybe Luca doesn't give a toss about who is faster and only wants the WCC?

[Roamy]

[quote="easy rider":gxp3yys8]It looks as if Kimi after all has made the right move, by moving to the Scuderia.
And Ferrari made the wrong decision in taking him.

Alonso has the support of Luca di Montezemolo. Raikkonen has the backing if Stefano Domenicali. With Ferrari having struggled to win a title since 2008, Domenicali is under pressure to perform. By supporting Raikkonen, his fate is tied to the Finn. That will bring him into opposition with di Montezemolo, who pretty much *is* Ferrari, and has already laid down the law by saying Raikkonen was taken to score points rather than win titles in his Christmas address. Domenicali, on the other hand, lobbied for Raikkonen to get the seat over Hulkenberg, who was di Montezemolo's choice, and since di Montezemolo usually gets his way, taking Raikkonen was a major coup for Domenicali. So the battle between Alonso and Raikkonen will be the battle for Ferrari's soul, because it's really a proxy war being fought between di Montezemolo and Domenicali. Di Montezemolo wields considerable influence over the team, but Domenicali has the luxury of directly influencing things day-to-day.

None of this bodes well for their championship campaign, because the winner of the intra-team battle will reaffirm his backer's influence over the team. Domenicali has much more to lose than di Montezemolo, so if Alonso out-performs Raikkonen this year, both Raikkonen and Domenicali could be looking for alternative forms of employment in 2015.[/quote:gxp3yys8]


Flavio will replace Domenicali as soon as he sh!ts himself again this year. Actually it should have been done this year!

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Nobody in their right mind would go anywhere near Flavio Briatore. He's persona non grata for a reason. The man's a disgrace.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Maybe...

Or maybe Luca doesn't give a toss about who is faster and only wants the WCC?
Oh, he cares. The team has suffered under Domenicali's direction. By rights, Alonso should have been champion in 2010 and 2012. But the team has failed to build a good enough car, in-season development has gone backwards, and tempers are running hot. With those problems and the way Sebastian Vettel could win a WCC single-handedly, change is needed in the rank and file.

[Tazio]

Maybe...

Or maybe Luca doesn't give a toss about who is faster and only wants the WCC?

I tend to agree with my man Koz.



The bigger picture at Ferrari is that they desperately need to narrow the gap to Red Bull sooner rather than later.

The Milton Keynes based team has been utterly dominant over the last four seasons and is on the verge of a fourth successive constructors’ and drivers’ title.

For a team as big as Ferrari, not winning a title since 2008 will be a huge concern and both Alonso and Raikkonen will be working as hard as ever to address this issue in order to stop the Vettel juggernaut next season.

@ p'monkeys: Do you have a source that states that S.D. is in Kimi's camp, and Zemo is in Fred's, or is this speculation? Mind you I’m not saying you are wrong, but I don't get that impression from the reading I’ve done.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't have a link at hand, because I'm posting from a mobile device, and copy-pasting causes a few issues. But Luca made some comments over the Christmas break where he described Raikkonen as being in the twilight of his career, and understanding that his role in the team was to score points for the WCC title.

[Tazio]

I don't have a link at hand, because I'm posting from a mobile device, and copy-pasting causes a few issues. But Luca made some comments over the Christmas break where he described Raikkonen as being in the twilight of his career, and understanding that his role in the team was to score points for the WCC title.
The articles you are referring to are well documented on this forum. In fact there is a thread devoted to Kimi is #2 according to Zemo's words. However I can't connect the dots that somehow S.D. is favoring Kimi over Zo.
Here is an excerpt from an interview with S.D. that appeared in Autosport:

"For anyone thinking that the choice of Kimi is somehow an anti-Alonso choice, I can put their minds at rest: at Ferrari, everyone knows the interests of the team come first and only then those of the individual.

"Fernando is a key asset for this team and he will be for a long time. I'm sure he is the first to be happy with a choice made to strengthen the group, because he is too intelligent not to realize that a stronger team can only be an advantage."

Domenicali insists both drivers will be given equal opportunity to challenge for the title in 2014 until one has a clear advantage.

"Nothing will change in the way the team is run," he added.

The line I highlighted in red could be interpreted as Fred will continue to be #1, No? :confused:

TBH I think that there is a more significant matter in all of this. I understand that this is going to be discussed because it is recent news, but I think teaming Kimi with Alonso's significance to me, and I am partial to Ferrari (although I like every single team and driver, and generally just really get a kick out of F1)is this will just add to Ferrari's legacy in F1. Most people look back very fondly on strong team pairings at "The Scuderia" like:

Jody Scheckter - Gilles Villeneuve, Niki Lauda - Clay Regazzoni. Even though in both cases there was a number 1 and number 2, those drivers brought home what was paramount to the team, The WCC. If Kimi can get the upper hand on Fred he will be allowed to beat him, of that I have no doubt. How the individual drivers react to their competition, or the media spins it is something I personally couldn't care less about. That is not what I follow F1 for.

May the Forza be with both of them! :sailor: Avantiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ;)

[steveaki13]

Domenicali's had a similar reign to Whitmarsh and I wouldn't be surprised if a similar fate comes to him.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I can't connect the dots that somehow S.D. is favoring Kimi over Zo.
Because Domenicali is not squaring off with Alonso. He's going up against Luca. Alonso is Luca's champion, while Raikkonen is Domenicali's. They are like two medieval kings who have chosen their champions to fight on their behalf.

Luca has backed Felipe Massa for years. But Massa has not been up to the task. I think the general opinion is that he should have been dropped after the 2011 season, if not sooner. But he has always had Luca's support, so when he did not perform, that reflected badly on Luca. When it finally came time to let Massa go, Luca was believed to favour Nico Hulkenberg. But because he made the wrong call on Massa, that gave Domenicali the opening to lobby for Raikkonen.

There have been other mis-steps along the way. Ferrari completely missed the boat on young driver programmes, so drivers like Vettel and Hamilton were picked up by and started winning titles for other teams. And when Ferrari finally managed to get some kind of framework in place to support young drivers, McLaren poached their most viable prospect away. Jules Bianchi might come good soon, but if he does not, Raffaele Marciello is the next-best alternative, and there is a real possibility that if Raikkonen falters, Ferrari might have a vacant seat and no-one to fill it.

2014 is going to be the battle for Ferrari's soul. The backer of whichever driver comes out on top will have the strongest influence in 2015.

[Tazio]

With all due respect I believe you have read too much into this move to get Kimi, and suspect Zemo and S.D. would be overjoyed if they could win the WCC with Fred and Kimi. Ferrari the team has seen better days, they have also seen much worse. If they suck this year S.D. will get the hook…… from Zemo. However there may be some truth in what you say I suppose, it isn't the aspect of F1 I really follow. I much prefer the racing.
May the Forza be with them.

[RS]

Van de Garde and Pic definitely out of Caterham.

Sauber have taken VDG as test and reserve. This year they have a reasonable driver lineup who all bring a bit of money too so hopefully their finances will be healthier. I wondered why Caterham took Van de Garde at the beginning of last year but he seemed to improve quite a bit.

[steveaki13]

I agree about VDG. He became a lot better as the season went on. Shame for him he didn't get a second season as that often helps drivers.

[Koz]

I know where we are now today with the car and we will still be fighting, hopefully for some podiums his year.

Sounds very disappointing, after having the second best car last season.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 3--f1.html (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-lotus-says-finances-sorted-2014-114249803--f1.html)

[Koz]

There have been other mis-steps along the way. Ferrari completely missed the boat on young driver programmes, so drivers like Vettel and Hamilton were picked up by and started winning titles for other teams. And when Ferrari finally managed to get some kind of framework in place to support young drivers, McLaren poached their most viable prospect away. Jules Bianchi might come good soon, but if he does not, Raffaele Marciello is the next-best alternative, and there is a real possibility that if Raikkonen falters, Ferrari might have a vacant seat and no-one to fill it.

Grooming young drivers has little sense, at the present moment, with testing banned they are almost worthless.
Vettel and Hamilton had thousands of kilometres under their belts before their first races.

And as far as young drivers go, I think Kevin Magnussen will do little better than Gutierrez next year.


2014 is going to be the battle for Ferrari's soul. The backer of whichever driver comes out on top will have the strongest influence in 2015.

Luca is the boss, there is no question of "influence" until he decides that the time is right for him to retire into politics. He'd be very happy to win one or both championships before he goes on his way.

[RS]

I know where we are now today with the car and we will still be fighting, hopefully for some podiums his year.

Sounds very disappointing, after having the second best car last season.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form ... 3--f1.html (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-lotus-says-finances-sorted-2014-114249803--f1.html)

Boullier was adamant they wouldn't be the only team to miss the first test, but now it looks like they will be.

[Koz]

Boullier quits for McLaren? :eek:

Looks like Lotus is finished.

[airshifter]

It's a shame Lotus can't keep their finances in order. With their success you would think they could attract more money, but it doesn't look like things are working out that way.

Then again, after what happened with Kimi, I'd be nervous about their ability to pay even if things did look better financially.