LH says he made FM do that fault

[ioan]

<<"Felipe had a couple of moves but fortunately I was able to trick him into outbraking himself. I apologise for that, but at the end of the day we got the points so it doesn't really matter.">>

I know he is happy with his deserved result, but making someone outbrake himself? A driver does outbrake himself because he misjudges the situation, but to claim that you made him do that is a bit over the top.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2045953,00.html

[raikk]

hardly much of a situation to bring up.. but I suppose you have a point..

[BeansBeansBeans]

I think he is suggesting that he left his braking unusually late, in order to trick Massa into outbraking himself. The fact that Lewis locked up his front tyres would seem to back up this claim. Or perhaps he is just playing mind games, who knows? Either way, Lewis's comment livened up the press conference.

[tinchote]

Whatever he did, he kept his position and Massa lost two. So congrats to him.

[Big Ben]

hardly much of a situation to bring up.. but I suppose you have a point..

Ioan can't help himself. there are a number of threads he has to start every day and if it's not a worship to MS then it must be something against Mclaren. So what am I supposed to say about this? quite a nice race, wasn't it?

[Robinho]

by not conceding the position, therefore braking as late as he could himself forced Massa to brake later off the racing line and could'nt scrub the speed to make the corner, twice. it was good racecraft by LH, so you could say he forced Massa into it, especially having seen how well it worked out for him the first time

[Erki]

Oh my. The guy is only driving his second F1 GP and already he makes dirty maneuvers!

[F1boat]

And he seems fairly arrogant to me...

[TMorel]

arrogant?

dirty maneuvers?

sounds like a future world champion to me :)

[BeansBeansBeans]

Oh please, there was nothing dirty about it, it was just good hard racing, which is what we all want.

As for him being arrogant - what he said seemed quite cocky, but there's no problem with that. It was the sort of thing that Valentino Rossi says to wind up his rivals. Just a bit of psycology.

He seems like quite a nice, charming young man to me though.

[F1boat]

arrogant?

dirty maneuvers?

sounds like a future world champion to me :)
Yeah, all champions made dirty maneuvers and are arrogant :)
But even non-champions do some ;)

[Mikeall]

Well he did force Massa to the inside then went out wider to make his entry easier while Massa didn't have that option and outbraked himself when he really didnt need to to gain track position.

[Corny]

It hurted me when I saw that Massa action..

Dutch reporter said; that's the difference between how Michael was and Massa is

[Ian McC]

:rotflmao:

I had expected this thread, though I thought someone else might start it ;)

Move along people, nothing to see................. :)

[donKey jote]

It hurted me when I saw that Massa action..

Dutch reporter said; that's the difference between how Michael was and Massa is


as if Michael was never known to make errors behind alonso ;) :p :
boo hoo :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[BeansBeansBeans]

I had expected this thread, though I thought someone else might start it ;)

Haha...me too.

When he said it, half of me thought "Nice one! I can't believe he just said that" and the other half thought "I bet it's going to upset a few people on the forum."

Ultimately, everyone is tired of drivers spouting bland, corporate drivel in press conferences, so it's about time someone said something interesting.

[BDunnell]

Haha...me too.

When he said it, half of me thought "Nice one! I can't believe he just said that" and the other half thought "I bet it's going to upset a few people on the forum."

Ultimately, everyone is tired of drivers spouting bland, corporate drivel in press conferences, so it's about time someone said something interesting.

Absolutely. I think Hamilton comes across very pleasantly in interviews.

And I reckon it is possible to say that you forced someone to outbrake themself. Keep the driver who's coming down the inside really tight to the inside line while leaving your own braking as late as possible, and you may very well force the person on the inside to brake too late, and thus make them run wide on the exit. Nothing wrong or dirty with that.

[wedge]

I'm surprised LH openly revealed some of his trade secrets. Drivers rarely reveal their racecraft so openly like that during the press conference.

Whether LH was gullible from euphoria or he wants to send out a warning, I don't know.

Having watched the replays at T4, those were impressive moves. Whenever LH tried to cover the inside line, he would jink back onto the optimum line through T4.

He timed those movements to perfection because LH had enough speed in and out of T4, and Massa committed on the inside messed up his overtaking. chances.

[BDunnell]

I'm surprised LH openly revealed some of his trade secrets. Drivers rarely reveal their racecraft so openly like that during the press conference.

Whether LH was gullible from euphoria or he wants to send out a warning, I don't know.

Hardly 'trade secrets', if you ask me — I suspect most of the other drivers know those sorts of moves already!

[Zico]

Heres a link to the maneuvers.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKwwaO-7u1M

Dirty tactics? No chance!... FM was simply outthought and outclassed by a rookie who happens to be a future world Champ.

[ioan]

Dirty tactics? No chance!... FM was simply outthought and outclassed by a rookie who happens to be a future world Champ.

Wishful thinking if you were referring to F1.

[Zico]

Wishful thinking if you were referring to F1.

He has the speed, skill/racecraft and time is on his side... Why not?

[jso1985]

erm... dirty tactic from LH? :s

Massa was the one who in the end did the stupid move and braked to late, if Hamilton was trying to make Massa do that then good for him but the one who tried the impossible was Massa and it's all his fault.

[ioan]

He has the speed, skill/racecraft and time is on his side... Why not?

Others had the same chances and never made it.

[POS_Maggott]

Hamiltons race craft has impressed me beyond words, for just his second race.

I think he's mature enough to be winning races; something I wouldnt have said before Melbourne.

[Firstgear]

Well, if driving beside a champion of the past flattered Massa's ability last year, he was definately put back into his place today by a champion of tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with what he said. If he was being arrogant, he would've taken a stab at Kimi too, but he did quite the opposite.

[leopard]

I couldn’t assent to those seeing LH as an arrogant and playing dirty trick, but rather I see him a pretentious driver.

I think it can be a nature concerned that he was only doing his job, being adamant to retain his position can’t be categorized he was guilty for sending someone out of the track.

He could manage the passion with his ability amid such hard pressure from Massa and Kimi were giving on him, until Massa made that mistake and losing his position more because he was driving over-confidently

In term of speed, Ferrari looks better, but McLaren boy had the better start and strategy. Better start is half of winning the battle.

[leopard]

I couldn’t assent to those seeing LH as an arrogant and playing dirty trick, but rather I see him a pretentious driver.


it must read unpretentious manner of driver, sorry :)

[wmcot]

It's too early to call him arrogant. Still, I'll bet Ron has a word with him for saying what he thinks.

I do wonder if FA is bothered by LH being Ron's "Golden Child?" You can see the body language that RD uses with LH compared to FA. It seems like RD treats FA like "hired help" while LH is the "prodigal son." Just watch the footage of the drivers between getting out of the cars and heading up to the podium as RD greets them.

[F1boat]

It's too early to call him arrogant. Still, I'll bet Ron has a word with him for saying what he thinks.

I do wonder if FA is bothered by LH being Ron's "Golden Child?" You can see the body language that RD uses with LH compared to FA. It seems like RD treats FA like "hired help" while LH is the "prodigal son."
I don't think so. IMO Ron was as happy with Alonso as a man ca be. He called Alonso and was almost in tears, his voice was cracking. Do you remember when Ron appeared on the pit wall in the middle of the race.
I saw his stare, he was enjoying Alonso's awesome pace tremendously.

[aryan]

It's too early to call him arrogant. Still, I'll bet Ron has a word with him for saying what he thinks.

I do wonder if FA is bothered by LH being Ron's "Golden Child?" You can see the body language that RD uses with LH compared to FA.

Yes, I did see Ron shaking the pit board for Alonso himself, and then running around his car to make sure everything was OK when FA came for his first stop.

[ArrowsFA1]

Hamiltons race craft has impressed me beyond words, for just his second race.
That's exactly it :up: Racecraft. It's like setting someone up for your sucker punch in boxing. Hamilton set Massa up and Massa took the bait.

[ioan]

That's exactly it :up: Racecraft. It's like setting someone up for your sucker punch in boxing. Hamilton set Massa up and Massa took the bait.

Only that this isn't boxing and it was up to Felipe to break at the right moment. But hey comparing apples and oranges it's an old habit around here, it's enough to suit one's point of view.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Only that this isn't boxing and it was up to Felipe to break at the right moment. But hey comparing apples and oranges it's an old habit around here, it's enough to suit one's point of view.

Of course it was up to Felipe to brake at the right moment, but Hamilton tricked him into leaving his braking late.

[samuratt]

I think that Hamilton drove superbly and indeed tried to force Massa into a mistake. Of course, it was up to Massa to brake late, but the fact is that he did, and by the way Hamilton takes the turn four, it does seem he is really trying to make Massa brake too late. Very good move and an excellent race by hamilton.

[BDunnell]

Only that this isn't boxing and it was up to Felipe to break at the right moment. But hey comparing apples and oranges it's an old habit around here, it's enough to suit one's point of view.

So you don't believe it's possible to take an attribute of one sport and apply it to another under any circumstances — like courage, tactical acumen, strength under pressure, etc?

[trumperZ06]

That's exactly it :up: Racecraft. It's like setting someone up for your sucker punch in boxing. Hamilton set Massa up and Massa took the bait.

:D Take another look or two at the Video. Massa is trying the same move.... twice, with the same result. He tried taking the inside line and out-braking LH going into the turn. Massa wound up "early appexing" and ran out of track at corner exit.

The first time, LH regained the lead by being able to get on the throttle sooner. The second time... Massa took himself off-track.

;) Give Massa a little credit for trying... and a whole lot of blame. Massa was never going to be able to make that pass... stick, it simply won't work.

[wmcot]

I don't think so. IMO Ron was as happy with Alonso as a man ca be. He called Alonso and was almost in tears, his voice was cracking. Do you remember when Ron appeared on the pit wall in the middle of the race.
I saw his stare, he was enjoying Alonso's awesome pace tremendously.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it just seems that Ron has a closer relationship with Lewis (which is understandable since he has been grooming him for years.) I guess I'm looking more toward the future when LH starts winning races instead of FA. I can see FA becoming disgruntled at being "number 2" in the team if that happens. I'm sure Ron wouldn't mind peddling him to another team in that case.

On the other hand, there is no doubt that LH is a special talent. I just hope RD doesn't ruin him by trying to control him too much. There have been too many drivers leaving McLaren who later feel they were being "suffocated" by the team demands to keep up the corporate image. (KR, DC, JPM, etc.)

BTW - I read that Norbert Haug is denying that LH did anything intentional. I personally don't think he did anything wrong, but I didn't think the team would let him make that comment in public.
Link - http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/09042007/13/hamilton-tactics-intentional.html

[luvracin]

Only that this isn't boxing and it was up to Felipe to break at the right moment. But hey comparing apples and oranges it's an old habit around here, it's enough to suit one's point of view.

Ok fine.

Massa's just useless behind the wheel then. Driving for Ferrari he shouldn't be making amateur mistakes like that, especially when racing against a rookie.

He needs to be replaced... and fast!

[jjanicke]

arrogant and dirty maneuvers!? :down:

Just laughable.

Massa fncked up, LH did his job extremely well. It's as simple as that.

Massa has a long road ahead of him.

[weeflyonthewall]

Whatever he did, he kept his position and Massa lost two. So congrats to him.

All in a days work. Did Jean Todt swallow his chewing gum when Massa mowed the grass?

[schmenke]

I have always maintained that Massa is one of the most over-rated drivers on the grid. He proved that once again in this GP, starting on pole and finishing 5th :dozey:

Hamilton will be world champ before Massa.

[jas123f1]

You can never accuse the other driver of your own mistakes and Massa neither it. F1 is the highest form of racing and there is not any place for excuses for that kind of mistakes Massa did in Malaysia. How would it sound saying “you brake too late so it’s your fault that I did the same”. What would the next driver say? “You drove too fast and when I tried to follow you I went off... You *******” Grrr.. :)

[Ranger]

I have always maintained that Massa is one of the most over-rated drivers on the grid. He proved that once again in this GP, starting on pole and finishing 5th :dozey:

Hamilton will be world champ before Massa.

Massa's a good egg, but I have never really understood the hype of him being a world champion. Hence, IMO, I think it will only be a few more races before Mr Todt breaks the news to Felipe.

[RJL25]

Seems to me that theres a few people on here who dont like mclaren so are trying to FIND reasons to not like hamilton

You CAN trick someone into outbraking themselfs, you simply leave your braking as late as possible, knowing that your rival is on the dirty line and to make the pass he will have to brake ATLEAST as late as you, therefore creating the very high possibility that he will outbrake himself

Rather then focusing on what LH said maybe people should be focusing more on how badly massa drove! it was almost like he was back in his sauber

[Ranger]

Regardless of whether Hamilton deserves credit for winning at mind games or Mass deserves credit for just making a mess of it, we all know who was the winner of that stoush.

Dirty tactics? Some people need to do their history. Suzuka '90 and Adelaide '94 are a start.

[raikk]

Others had the same chances and never made it.

Hamilton is making the most of his chances by getting 2 consecutive podium finnishes... I belive Lewis will be a future champ... I mean he's just so composed in the situations that give off the most pressure , a perfect example is this least race where Hamilton managed to keep both Massa and Raikkonen behind him in only his 2nd race! Hamilton will pull off a Mika Hakkinen but much sooner..

[janneppi]

Hamilton will pull off a Mika Hakkinen but much sooner..

A high speed crash or a wee sob in the bushes after a car failure? ;)

[Hawkmoon]

A high speed crash or a wee sob in the bushes after a car failure? ;)

:D That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in F1. That, and that Japanese driver getting run over by the safety car.

Hamilton did nothing dirty and his comments in the press conference were surprising but very amusing all the same. The boy's good but I won't call him a future world champion because that phrase gets used too often and rarely proves accurate.

What we saw was a some good, bad and ugly pieces of racing. The good was Hamilton's defense against the faster Ferraris. The bad was Massa messing up his passing attempt twice at the same corner. The ugly was the rest of Massa's race. Finishing 5th behind a BMW in a car that could have won the race from pole is bloody ugly indeed.

Felipe, my boy, you had better get your act together or Jean will be trying to coax Schumi away from the poolside in short order.

[truefan72]

Heres a link to the maneuvers.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKwwaO-7u1M

Dirty tactics? No chance!... FM was simply outthought and outclassed by a rookie who happens to be a future world Champ.

I completely agree. It was first rate racing. Massa was hounding him and over eager to make the pass, LH found a spot that would allow him to outbrake and outmaneuver him in a wide braking section of the track and purposely left the door wide both times. He knew that Massa would take the bait both times with the 2nd attempt being even more agreesive than the first.

No arrogance and DEFINITELY no dirty tricks.
Listen. Give credit where credit is due and leave things at that.
Not only is he exceptionally talented and fast, but has just shown us an ability to be extremely savvy and smart in his racecraft under the most intense of pressures.

[ioan]

I completely agree. It was first rate racing. Massa was hounding him and over eager to make the pass, LH found a spot that would allow him to outbrake and outmaneuver him in a wide braking section of the track and purposely left the door wide both times. He knew that Massa would take the bait both times with the 2nd attempt being even more agreesive than the first.

I suppose he also has some telepathic powers and knew that Massa will twice miss his braking point? :rolleyes:

BTW how can the one in front out brake the one coming from behind? It's like saying that Hamilton passed Massa!

[truefan72]

Ioan give it up please!!!!

if he were driving a Ferrari, you would be singing his praises to no end. Just be rational for once when it comes to non ferrari drivers. Wow such petulance and stubborness is uncanny.

and yes, he did outbrake him...technically he did pass massa, twice as mass was leading into the turn twice
You may root for your favorite team and driver, but you cannot change facts
I wonder if you, like Massa were "surprised by the McClaren speed" LOL
http://www.eurosport.com/formula1/malaysia-gp/2007/sport_sto1143302.shtml

[janneppi]

I suppose he also has some telepathic powers and knew that Massa will twice miss his braking point? :rolleyes:

BTW how can the one in front out brake the one coming from behind? It's like saying that Hamilton passed Massa!

I guess i'm telepathic too, while driving race sims online, i often lured opponents into coming in too hot into corners while braking earlier and turning into corners with better exit speeds, it only worked with amateurish drivres though. ;)

[XR8]

Its a classic sucker move! You rush up to the corner and brake as late as you can but give the guy some room on the inside but dirty line, the other guy will try to out brake you and you pull up early and he overshoots the corner. I have done it trying to pass someone, come up the outside and look like you are going to go in real deep and go around the outside but brake at the last minute and switch back as the other guy comes in real deep to out brake you and bingo he goes wide and you slip through on the inside. But as I say the other guy has to be a sucker and I think that Massa must fit that bill as thats what he did. Fell foul of the sucker treatment! Now a smarter driver would not make that mistake as all you have to do is be cool and just pull up beside that driver and he will have nowere to go!

[Big Ben]

It was a brilliant move. He made Massa look like a fool. I used to think FM was a mediocre driver and then changed my mind. He still has time to prove he can be WDC but I for one begin to doubt it seriously. In Australia he had by far the Fastest car but he only managed to finish 6th. That's a very poor result. KR, in Bahrain last year, got 3rd after starting last and this in a car that was behind the renaults and the ferraris. He wasn't able to pass Heidfeld...!!!

[BeansBeansBeans]

I suppose he also has some telepathic powers and knew that Massa will twice miss his braking point? :rolleyes:

I don't see why you are finding it so difficult to understand.

[ioan]

It was a brilliant move. He made Massa look like a fool. I used to think FM was a mediocre driver and then changed my mind. He still has time to prove he can be WDC but I for one begin to doubt it seriously. In Australia he had by far the Fastest car but he only managed to finish 6th. That's a very poor result. KR, in Bahrain last year, got 3rd after starting last and this in a car that was behind the renaults and the ferraris. He wasn't able to pass Heidfeld...!!!

:rolleyes: Comparing Australia with Bahrain, nothing it's the same, not even the tracks.

[ioan]

I don't see why you are finding it so difficult to understand.

Maybe because I have no Queen?
Or maybe I just think before believing whatever is said?
Maybe both.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Maybe because I have no Queen?
Or maybe I just think before believing whatever is said?
Maybe both.

I have no problem with you questioning Lewis Hamilton's version of events in this instance. However, you seem to be suggesting that it isn't possible for a driver to trick an into outbraking himself, when it clearly is.

[BDunnell]

:rolleyes: Comparing Australia with Bahrain, nothing it's the same, not even the tracks.

What has that got to do with anything? Both circuits have corners on them at which it is possible to overtake by various means. This is quite a major similarity when discussing overtaking.

[ioan]

I have no problem with you questioning Lewis Hamilton's version of events in this instance. However, you seem to be suggesting that it isn't possible for a driver to trick an into outbraking himself, when it clearly is.

Well if you are the one trying to overtake you might pressure the other one into something like that, but when you are in front it's always the one coming up from behind that has to brake later and later whatever you do, so he is the one pushing himself to the limit (and to the fault) not the one who is overtaken.

[janneppi]

Then again, Massa was clearly in a hurry to get past Hamilton, it couldn't have been missed by Lewis either, Massa also had the tendency to understeer which also was evident and i wouldn't be surprised if the team had discussed how Massa might drive, and how this could be dealt with.

[Simmi]

Brilliant race craft by Hamilton in his first two races. I was a bit surprised by his comments in the press conference because to me it was out of character. Massive over reaction to call him arrogant by whoever said it earlier in the thread, but I liked seeing the confidence in Lewis and thankfully he has done most of his talking on the track.

[jjanicke]

What has that got to do with anything? Both circuits have corners on them at which it is possible to overtake by various means. This is quite a major similarity when discussing overtaking.

Because "overtaking" is not the same from track to track. Australia for one is not known as an "overtaking" track. Bahrain on the other hand is wide, and purposefully designed for racing and enabling overtaking.

Now that being said, I still think Kimi would have done better in Australia given the same circumstances of Massa. Kimi is a better driver, and after Malaysia there is no longer any doubt in my mind. Massa will not have the chance to be WDC as long as he has teamates like MS and Kimi.

[luvracin]

Well if you are the one trying to overtake you might pressure the other one into something like that, but when you are in front it's always the one coming up from behind that has to brake later and later whatever you do, so he is the one pushing himself to the limit (and to the fault) not the one who is overtaken.


This is a circular discussion that will never end.

If I am racing YOU. I am in front and see you coming up behind me. My strategy in defending my position is to be the protagonist. How do I do that?

I brake as late as possible to try and force you into braking too late and overshooting the corner.

From your point of view, you just messed up. But from my point of view, you did EXACTLY what I wanted you to do.

[18000rpm]

BTW - I read that Norbert Haug is denying that LH did anything intentional. I personally don't think he did anything wrong, but I didn't think the team would let him make that comment in public.
Link - http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/09042007/13/hamilton-tactics-intentional.html

Norbert was referring to LH holding up the Ferraris, not tricking Massa into outbreaking himself.

Totally different issue.

[jas123f1]

For me it’s difficult to understand why some people are blaming Hamilton about his brilliant driving? Every driver has to do everything he can to keep his competitors behind him, so what’s wrong? Was he braking too late? Of course he must brake as late as possible. To tell the truth, Massa made couple of mistakes – that’s it. Every one can make a mistakes and this time it was Massa. In my mind it was even bigger mistake to give both McLarens an open door in start, which also was the reason to that Massa got this “feeling” that he must try to prepare it as soon as possible and overtake at leaste LH.

Imo it's "almost laughable", when some people try to blame Hamilton? What are they waiting? That LH says to Massa in the start "Excuse me Massa, but you must go first - it’s unfair if I go first"? or later on “Massa I’ll brake early in the second curve so you can overtake me – but be carefully so you don’t brake too late and … ” ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

In today's press conference both Massa & Hamilton have commented on/been asked about their battle:

Felipe Massa:
"I would have done the same if I was in front. These days we prove that F1 is very difficult to pass, it depends also on the track. Malaysia is not an easy track to pass and he was fighting for his position and would not give it to me. It was a difficult corner, very dirty off line but it is the only way to try. For sure when Lewis is behind I will not give him an easy time either, but he did a very good job. This is not dirty driving, it is just normal."
Lewis Hamilton:

"I didn't trick him. I think I said the wrong word. You cannot trick him. What you try to do when you are out there, you try and force them into an error. That is what I tried to do because that was the only way I could keep ahead of him, I pushed to stay ahead of him. I tried to force him into a mistake, not trick him."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58007

[F1boat]

Congrats to both drivers for this statements.

[wmcot]

But part of me wonders if LH was told to change his story to a more corporate-management-pleasing one? Could be the start of RD micro-managing LH. If so, how long will LH take it?

[Ranger]

But part of me wonders if LH was told to change his story to a more corporate-management-pleasing one? Could be the start of RD micro-managing LH. If so, how long will LH take it?

You're speculating on what isn't there.

I'd say he just looked at it and thought of a more succint way he could've explained it.

[longisland]

<<"Felipe had a couple of moves but fortunately I was able to trick him into outbraking himself. I apologise for that, but at the end of the day we got the points so it doesn't really matter.">>

I know he is happy with his deserved result, but making someone outbrake himself? A driver does outbrake himself because he misjudges the situation, but to claim that you made him do that is a bit over the top.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2045953,00.html

For once i agreed with IOAN. LH doesn't derserve the half the credit he claimed. Massa was just being unlucky. I believed the real reason why Massa counldn't make that corner has more to do with the longer wheel base (4 inch to be exact) of the new car. A car designed by an ex-Mclaren Designer by the name of Nicholas Tombazis. The wheel base is too long it has to do a 3 point turn to over take a Mclaren and aero design that sucked up all the dirty air from the rear of a Mclaren not even Kimi can do anything about it. Wait a minute, Kimi's from Mclaren too. That means Massa & team red is realy facing and uphill battle. One against three on the grid. What an ingenious move by the ronster

[F1boat]

But part of me wonders if LH was told to change his story to a more corporate-management-pleasing one? Could be the start of RD micro-managing LH. If so, how long will LH take it?

No, he is a kid, no matter how fast. He said stupid thing than he apologized. That's all.
And RD loves to bash Ferrari. Can't see his influence over Lewis.

[ArrowsFA1]

I'd say he just looked at it and thought of a more succint way he could've explained it.
:up:

[harsha]

he made massa look ordinary thats for sure considering that a few of the forumers were harping on massa as a potential WDC,it doesn't look like that now does it....the sad part of FM's race was not the mistake with lewis,it's rather the lack of pace throughout the reminder of the race which he should have really been in the podium

[555-04Q2]

No, he is a kid, no matter how fast. He said stupid thing than he apologized. That's all.
And RD loves to bash Ferrari. Can't see his influence over Lewis.

RD and LH have known each other since LH was a young boy who wanted to race in F1 for him one day. They are more than just Boss and Driver and I see LH taking as much advise from RD as he can, both on and off the race track.

[ArrowsFA1]

I see LH taking as much advise from RD as he can, both on and off the race track.
Ron deserves enormous credit for 1) supporting LH's career the way he did for many years and 2) giving him the opportunity he has this year, particularly as it's not like McLaren to take a rookie on as a race driver. The last time they did was with Jan Magnussen back in '95.

[tintop]

Seems to me that theres a few people on here who dont like mclaren so are trying to FIND reasons to not like hamilton

You CAN trick someone into out-braking themselves, you simply leave your braking as late as possible, knowing that your rival is on the dirty line and to make the pass he will have to brake ATLEAST as late as you, therefore creating the very high possibility that he will out-brake himself

Rather then focusing on what LH said maybe people should be focusing more on how badly massa drove! it was almost like he was back in his sauber

There is an infinite number of mind games that leaders/followers partake in - giving someone a little room to pass in the hope that they overcook the corner is hardly a novel tactic. I've been on the track with touring cars that have altered brake light actuators - in both directions: the brake light comes on before the brakes actually engage, forcing the trailing car to brake early - or the opposite, the light comes on late which can sometimes cause the trailing car to come in to the corner too hot.

[harsha]

although you can't classify Raikkonen as a Rookie when he came to Mclaren,think Rakka learnt a lot from his time in Mclaren with RD though

[harsha]

also i was amused cause judging by lewis hamilton's reply,he was suprised to see Massa make that error

[555-04Q2]

Ron deserves enormous credit for 1) supporting LH's career the way he did for many years and 2) giving him the opportunity he has this year, particularly as it's not like McLaren to take a rookie on as a race driver. The last time they did was with Jan Magnussen back in '95.

Indeed :up: Looks like his faith in LH will be repayed shortly.

[tintop]

This is a circular discussion that will never end.

Your problem here is that you are attempting to apply facts and sound logic to an original post that was primarily intended to smear a driver that has beaten one's fav driver/team.

[jjanicke]

For once i agreed with IOAN. LH doesn't derserve the half the credit he claimed. Massa was just being unlucky. I believed the real reason why Massa counldn't make that corner has more to do with the longer wheel base (4 inch to be exact) of the new car. A car designed by an ex-Mclaren Designer by the name of Nicholas Tombazis. The wheel base is too long it has to do a 3 point turn to over take a Mclaren and aero design that sucked up all the dirty air from the rear of a Mclaren not even Kimi can do anything about it. Wait a minute, Kimi's from Mclaren too. That means Massa & team red is realy facing and uphill battle. One against three on the grid. What an ingenious move by the ronster

4 inches longer? The rules are very specific on the width of the car. So according to your statement the wheel base in not governed by the FIA rules. Is that correct?

[Ian McC]

Ron deserves enormous credit for 1) supporting LH's career the way he did for many years and 2) giving him the opportunity he has this year, particularly as it's not like McLaren to take a rookie on as a race driver. The last time they did was with Jan Magnussen back in '95.


And for spotting such talent at an early age, I bet Ron is feeling really smug right now.

[ioan]

I bet Ron is feeling really smug right now.

That's his natural state of mind! ;)

[ShiftingGears]

4 inches longer? The rules are very specific on the width of the car. So according to your statement the wheel base in not governed by the FIA rules. Is that correct?

No, no, wheelbase is the distance between the centre of the two wheels(lengthwise), and this F1 racing magazine tells me that the wheelbase of the F2007 is 100mm longer than the 248 F1. However I don't see that as an excuse for Massa's mistake at all.

[longisland]

4 inches longer? The rules are very specific on the width of the car. So according to your statement the wheel base in not governed by the FIA rules. Is that correct?

I'm referrining to the distance between the front and the rear axles.

[wmcot]

You're speculating on what isn't there.

I'd say he just looked at it and thought of a more succint way he could've explained it.

If you define "succinct" as "Ron-approved" I'd agree with you. You mean you don't think Ron controls what his drivers say? Have you heard any of the remarks from drivers leaving McLaren (from DC up to Kimi)?

[cosmicpanda]

For once i agreed with IOAN. LH doesn't derserve the half the credit he claimed. Massa was just being unlucky. I believed the real reason why Massa counldn't make that corner has more to do with the longer wheel base (4 inch to be exact) of the new car. A car designed by an ex-Mclaren Designer by the name of Nicholas Tombazis. The wheel base is too long it has to do a 3 point turn to over take a Mclaren...

So what you are saying, in effect, is that Massa is incapable of driving an F1 car?

[jjanicke]

No, no, wheelbase is the distance between the centre of the two wheels(lengthwise), and this F1 racing magazine tells me that the wheelbase of the F2007 is 100mm longer than the 248 F1. However I don't see that as an excuse for Massa's mistake at all.

and, ...


I'm referrining to the distance between the front and the rear axles.

..., duh... I'm not questioning the width!!!! :) I'm asking if the FIA doesn't govern the wheel base of a car, as they do the width. Apparently they don't.

[Ian McC]

That's his natural state of mind! ;)

:laugh:

[janneppi]

I couldn't find any mention of maximum or minimum wheel base, or overall length, there are rules about overhangings, but thats it. And when you think about it, it's not a bad thing, gives some freedom to the engineers.

[truefan72]

Indeed :up: Looks like his faith in LH will be repayed shortly.

I wonder how long LH will stay with McClaren though, If it becomes evident that Alonso will always get the preferential treatment, I can realisticly see LH moving to Ferrari or Renault in a year or two. Ron Dennis may have supported his career early on but if LH feels stuck behind Alonso and/or becomes frustrated with RD's continued strategy to undermine his race day efforts ( in a quiet attempt to position his role as a diligent #2 driver out to protect his #1) then I can cleary see LH leaving. He will be the most coveted driver in 1-2 years.

How long is his contract with McClaren (not that it really matters though as one can find a way to get out of contracts these days)

[jjanicke]

I couldn't find any mention of maximum or minimum wheel base, or overall length, there are rules about overhangings, but thats it. And when you think about it, it's not a bad thing, gives some freedom to the engineers.

it also makes sense. Wheel base isn't nearly as critical to cornering speed as width is.


I wonder how long LH will stay with McClaren though, If it becomes evident that Alonso will always get the preferential treatment, I can realisticly see LH moving to Ferrari or Renault in a year or two. Ron Dennis may have supported his career early on but if LH feels stuck behind Alonso and/or becomes frustrated with RD's continued strategy to undermine his race day efforts ( in a quiet attempt to position his role as a diligent #2 driver out to protect his #1) then I can cleary see LH leaving. He will be the most coveted driver in 1-2 years.

How long is his contract with McClaren (not that it really matters though as one can find a way to get out of contracts these days)

Well if Mclaren holds true to what Steve Matchett (SpeedTV) has been saying, little Lewis should get the better pit strategy in tommorrows race. If Mclaren don't give preferential treatment until the WDC is alot more clear I see no reason why Lewis should want to leave, as long as reliability and pace are good.

[jjanicke]

I wonder how long LH will stay with McClaren though, If it becomes evident that Alonso will always get the preferential treatment, I can realisticly see LH moving to Ferrari or Renault in a year or two. Ron Dennis may have supported his career early on but if LH feels stuck behind Alonso and/or becomes frustrated with RD's continued strategy to undermine his race day efforts ( in a quiet attempt to position his role as a diligent #2 driver out to protect his #1) then I can cleary see LH leaving. He will be the most coveted driver in 1-2 years.

How long is his contract with McClaren (not that it really matters though as one can find a way to get out of contracts these days)

Well if Mclaren holds true to what Steve Matchett (SpeedTV) has been saying, little Lewis should get the better pit strategy in tommorrows race. If Mclaren don't give preferential treatment until the WDC is alot more clear I see no reason why Lewis should want to leave, as long as reliability and pace are good.

[ioan]

Well if Mclaren holds true to what Steve Matchett (SpeedTV) has been saying, little Lewis should get the better pit strategy in tommorrows race. If Mclaren don't give preferential treatment until the WDC is alot more clear I see no reason why Lewis should want to leave, as long as reliability and pace are good.

Pit strategy is decided before Qualifying 3, so what was decided can't be changed from now on, not for the first round of pit stops anyway.

[jjanicke]

Pit strategy is decided before Qualifying 3, so what was decided can't be changed from now on, not for the first round of pit stops anyway.

Not so sure that pit strategy is fully decided before Q3. Fuel load is however decided before Q3. If necessary they can alter the pit strategy after Q3 by not refilling the max fuel credit. It is not against the rules to start off lighter than the start of Q3.

+ I think Steve Matchett would understand that part of F1 racing better than you or I.

[ioan]

Not so sure that pit strategy is fully decided before Q3. Fuel load is however decided before Q3. If necessary they can alter the pit strategy after Q3 by not refilling the max fuel credit. It is not against the rules to start off lighter than the start of Q3.

+ I think Steve Matchett would understand that part of F1 racing better than you or I.

I really don't see why someone would not refill all the fuel they can, after all what use to compromise your qualifying with more fuel and than start on low fuel? As far as logics go I can't see what there is to be gained this way?

If Matchett was that good he would be the strategist in an F1 team. :p :
I gave up a long time ago believeing what so called F1 expert journos say.

[jjanicke]

I really don't see why someone would not refill all the fuel they can, after all what use to compromise your qualifying with more fuel and than start on low fuel? As far as logics go I can't see what there is to be gained this way?

If Matchett was that good he would be the strategist in an F1 team. :p :
I gave up a long time ago believeing what so called F1 expert journos say.

But I guess you are a better strategist than a former bennoton mechanic.

I'll hang my hat on Matchett!

[ioan]

But I guess you are a better strategist than a former bennoton mechanic.

Well, I'm no mechanic, and...


I'll hang my hat on Matchett!

...I prefer to use my brain.
You may do whatever you want with your hat! :D

[jjanicke]

This will never end! Apparently your brain is smarter and more knowledgeable than F1 industry veterans, like Matchett.

And again, no offense, but I will defer to Matchett over your opinions on this matter.

[ioan]

This will never end! Apparently your brain is smarter and more knowledgeable than F1 industry veterans, like Matchett.

And again, no offense, but I will defer to Matchett over your opinions on this matter.

As you wish.

BTW, thanks for the compliments! :D