Boring!

[CarlMetro]

2nd race in and we seem, despite all the rule changes, to still have boring, processional races. 1 car gets out front, everybody else slots in behind him and 2 hours later they finish in the same order as they finished the second lap :rolleyes:

Until the FIA decrees the removal of all these add-on aero parts I believe that we will see more and more processions like we did today where one car gets to within half a second of the car in front and can get no closer.

Personally I don't care if Ferrari never ever win another race, what I want to see is racing, a battle on the track between rivals, not 22 cars following each other for 2 hours.

[rickos]

Cricket, lawn bowling, soccer, F1 ... F$*&'n most boring sports on the planet ... good thing they're not popular in NA but then again, nothing beats the NHL, NFL and NBA.

:s mokin:

[Eyo]

Since a while, that I haven’t fall a sleep during a race. This isn’t exiting anymore. I don’t even care if I miss a race or two, it’s not a priority anymore.

[jens]

Massa's and Hamilton's battle was the only interesting part of the race.

But hey - we can make the same conclusion again: before every season people say that this is gonna be a very interesting season, but - wow - actually it turns out to be "as usual" again! :)

[F1boat]

I think that overtaking is impossible this season. Even worse than last seasons. This is a problem.

[ChrisS]

I think it was one of the best F1 parades in a while, the cars were parading so close to each other...

Oh wait a minute, was it supposed to be a race?

[F1boat]

Nahh, that's tonight at Vegas...

[wedge]

Don't know about you but I was entertained and on the edge of my seat for most of the race. I would give 8/10. Either you saw a different race or you're very hard to please!

This year's race was a whole lot better than last years which was surprisingly dull and processional for Tilke track.

The first stint was exciting, lots of overtaking/close action up down the field. Middle phase of the race was admittedly a bit boring but the last stint was tense when we had Kimi catching Hamilton.

[Donney]

It was exciting to me but not for the racing, which I agree was rather boring once Massa decided to visit the green stuff.

The FIA should do something about it.

[Scuderia ferrari]

Yes, it was quite dull today, got up a half seven to watch the race, to see this quite dismal race. The start was exciting, and the first 10 laps or so when the ferraris were putting pressure on Hamilton. The other exciting bit towards the end was when Kimi was catching Lewis. Otherwise, not as exciting as i'd amagined, oh well, let's hope bahrain is a better one.

[blakebeatty]

Don't know about you but I was entertained and on the edge of my seat for most of the race. I would give 8/10. Either you saw a different race or you're very hard to please!

This year's race was a whole lot better than last years which was surprisingly dull and processional for Tilke track.

The first stint was exciting, lots of overtaking/close action up down the field. Middle phase of the race was admittedly a bit boring but the last stint was tense when we had Kimi catching Hamilton.

To be on the edge of your seat the whole race, you must have been sitting on a very narrow chair.

After the end of the Massa/Hamilton battle, there was nothing. I can't imagine that Kimi and Hamilton was thrilling knowing that Kimi was not only unlikely to catch Lewis, but in fact (as discussed) unimaginable to actually overtake

[wacked]

didnt see the whole race.. didnt think it was worth it.. saw the first 15 mins and the last 5-10 mins to see who would win, thats all.. no overtaking.. alonso winning with a 20 second lead.. no racing, just driving..

what happened to the Honda's and Renault's when will they be little more competitive and makes things a little interesting.. this is getting boring..

[Giuseppe F1]

Agree that the start and Massa's hounding of Lewis were the only real exciting bits......hands down, most exciting single-seater race of the past few years....


...GP2 race at Nurburgring in 2005

[Ian McC]

nothing beats the NHL, NFL and NBA.

:s mokin:

Oh yeah, so popular that everyone else in the world is into them :p :

Well overtaking doesn't look like it is going to make much of an appearance this year, unless it rains of course.

[waitey]

sorry but i disagree. I expect NON f1 fans to be saying they would be that bored in a formula 1 race. Some of the talk here i would never guess you people to follow motorsport. I love formula 1, and never find it boring. As someone mentioned about soccer, you have to have a passion for a sport like that where they can kick no goals a game and not score. I love formula 1 and am never bored by it, i still get excited watching it. Get over it, they are not going to be able to make the cars pass like the old days, if they were to do that, formula 1 would not be formula 1 because they would go backwards so much and not be the pinnacle of motorsport. If you don't like it and find it boring, you are obviously watching the wrong sport in my opinion.

[aryan]

Wow! To come out after this race and call it boing, you guys are really something. Face it, not every race will be a Hungry 2006.

I thought the race was fantastic, it had lots of overtaking, lots of battles, lots of interesting strategies. It was awesome.

[wedge]

To be on the edge of your seat the whole race, you must have been sitting on a very narrow chair.

After the end of the Massa/Hamilton battle, there was nothing. I can't imagine that Kimi and Hamilton was thrilling knowing that Kimi was not only unlikely to catch Lewis, but in fact (as discussed) unimaginable to actually overtake

Like I said, the first stint was very exciting up and down the field.

Rosberg and Wurz passed quite a few cars. Rosberg would be my second best drive of the day, along with Heidfeld.

Davidson had a great start, Sato passed a few cars.

The Aguris, Hondas, and Torro Rosso cars were in a pack.

Admittedly F1, could do with a bit more overtaking/closer racing. But F1 is fine as it is. I like the fact that F1 is considered difficult to overtake.

BTW its normal for the leader to have a large margin over the rest of the field.

If you want entertainment, stick with touring cars, NASCAR, IRL etc....

[tinchote]

I congratulate myself on having taped the race. Then I could watch more than half of it on "fast forward", and at a more decent time of the day. I think what happened can be summarized on the director showing the battle for 14th place (Webber and Wurz, with no overtaking) for two full laps.

[Jag_Warrior]

Don't know about you but I was entertained and on the edge of my seat for most of the race. I would give 8/10. Either you saw a different race or you're very hard to please!

Apparently you saw the same race as I did. I'm not sure what race others were watching. :p :

[e2mtt]

I'm not sure what is wrong with some of you guys. Did it ever occur to you guys that a faster car and driver will qualify and start ahead a slower one? Then do you expect suddenly the slower qualifier to become fast and catch up and pass those ahead of them? That is not the way it usually works. Barring mistakes & mechanical problems, the fast merely get farther ahead of the slower each lap.

You talk about the old days, yes there were some close battles that do not happen today, mostly because the cars are at least 50% faster, so you can't dice back and forth quite the same. However, most of the time, there were huge gaps between each car only a little ways into the race, and much of the drama was if the cars would last, if weather would rear its head, or if a certain driver could reel in a single position late in the race.

Of course all you know about the old days is highlight clips anyway.

[andreag]

I used to watch races on two channels at the same time, while I'm checking sector times and gaps on formula1.com. I've realized (specially today) how important is the TV director in making a race amazing or boring.

Today there were many times where images were showing the train of 7 cars, while the actionb were elsewhere. Formula1.com site was showing sector times, and it was supposed some overtakings, but they were not on TV.

Barrichello went from 22nd to 11th, Wurz from 19th to 9th, Fisichella from 12th to 6th, and Heikki from 11th to 8th; but we couldn't see almost nothing of those movements. Rosberg and Coulthard made good moves as well, but they catch director's attention mainly when they retired.

A good director could have made this race as interesting as it really was, but it doesn't reflected on TV.

[BeansBeansBeans]

I thought it was an entertaining GP. Not one of the all time greats, but not boring either.

I agree that it seems to be harder to overtake than ever, due to the sophistication of the aerodynamics, but Grand Prix racing has always been largely processional with little overtaking. There was never a golden age where all races were wheel-banging, nose-to-gearbox battles.

[F1boat]

I thought it was an entertaining GP. Not one of the all time greats, but not boring either.

I agree that it seems to be harder to overtake than ever, due to the sophistication of the aerodynamics, but Grand Prix racing has always been largely processional with little overtaking. There was never a golden age where all races were wheel-banging, nose-to-gearbox battles.

I agree, but on Sepand overtaking was never that hard :(

[blakebeatty]

By far the most exciting part of a race weekend is qualifying. waaaay better than the actual race.

[e2mtt]

I used to watch races on two channels at the same time, while I'm checking sector times and gaps on formula1.com. I've realized (specially today) how important is the TV director in making a race amazing or boring.

Today there were many times where images were showing the train of 7 cars, while the actionb were elsewhere. Formula1.com site was showing sector times, and it was supposed some overtakings, but they were not on TV.

Barrichello went from 22nd to 11th, Wurz from 19th to 9th, Fisichella from 12th to 6th, and Heikki from 11th to 8th; but we couldn't see almost nothing of those movements. Rosberg and Coulthard made good moves as well, but they catch director's attention mainly when they retired.

A good director could have made this race as interesting as it really was, but it doesn't reflected on TV.

Absolutly! I LOVE watching motor racing - nonetheless a poorly announced and directed race can leave me bored and switching the channel. Meanwhile great direction and announcement (which F1 on UK tv often has) can make even a lackluster race nailbiting.

There are many times I will have the online laptime display running on my PC while I watch. (NASCAR or F1 or whatever) I will pick up on someone running great times, or picking up positions lap after lap, and I will be begging for the race director to notice. Sometimes, when they are on their game, they will go there quickly. Other times, it will be 10 minute before they pick up on, while they run boring shots of the leader. Sometimes they never pick up on it until they show a huge overtaking, in replay. I want to scream at them... "Did you not notice the fast lap times & the shrinking gap for the last 10 laps!"

[Erki]

I actually could make do with no overtaking. Racing with no overtaking can be absolutely brilliant and breathtaking, too. :) They don't even have to fight for place with each other - rallying. Cars can be so spread out that none of them are on the same lap - endurance racing. Yet they can(and often do) give me goosebumps. No sportscar race is boring to me, ho could those beautiful cars be boring? No rally coverage is boring to me - they're driving on the ordinary roads, in all conditions. No airfield-like tarmac run-offs is just a bonus. ;)

IMO F1 right now has boring cars, boring tracks, and mostly boring drivers.

Here's an exciting car, exciting track, exciting driver for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwtyZosuPNE
Or if you want to go hardcore... : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEJtBb-Pfxs

Enjoy. :s mokin:

[F1boat]

I actually could make do with no overtaking. Racing with no overtaking can be absolutely brilliant and breathtaking, too. :) They don't even have to fight for place with each other - rallying.

Rallying is beautiful, especially on snow. :)

[ShiftingGears]

Don't know about you but I was entertained and on the edge of my seat for most of the race. I would give 8/10. Either you saw a different race or you're very hard to please!

This year's race was a whole lot better than last years which was surprisingly dull and processional for Tilke track.

The first stint was exciting, lots of overtaking/close action up down the field. Middle phase of the race was admittedly a bit boring but the last stint was tense when we had Kimi catching Hamilton.


I agree, I was entertained!

[jso1985]

can I ask again: Is F1 just overtaking?

cause we're measuring the races taking count overtaking, and I think that's plain wrong, I'm happy F1 doesn't use artificial measures to have more overtaking, ok the race wasn't a classic to remember but I didn't find it boring at all.

Good to see some members here see beyond overtaking :)

[Ranger]

I used to watch races on two channels at the same time, while I'm checking sector times and gaps on formula1.com. I've realized (specially today) how important is the TV director in making a race amazing or boring.

Today there were many times where images were showing the train of 7 cars, while the actionb were elsewhere. Formula1.com site was showing sector times, and it was supposed some overtakings, but they were not on TV.

Barrichello went from 22nd to 11th, Wurz from 19th to 9th, Fisichella from 12th to 6th, and Heikki from 11th to 8th; but we couldn't see almost nothing of those movements. Rosberg and Coulthard made good moves as well, but they catch director's attention mainly when they retired.

A good director could have made this race as interesting as it really was, but it doesn't reflected on TV.

I agree, although I wasn't bored by the race by any stretch.

[CarlMetro]

Of course all you know about the old days is highlight clips anyway.

Speak for yourself. There are many on here, myself included, who have been watching F1 for more than 30 years.

I'm glad to see so many of you still think it was entertaining. That's just what Bernie and Max want to here. Personally I just don't see how there was any excitement after the first 10 laps. Even towards the end, with Kimi 'catching' Lewis when Lewis had obviously turned down his engine, ther was no real excitement for me because even if he had caught him there was no way he would have got close enough to pull off a pass. Kimi sat on Lewis's gearbox for long enough earlier in the race and couldn't do it then so I had no doubts that he wouldn't do it at the end of the race.

Like Tinchote I'll start taping the races in future :\

[Roamy]

the massa LH race was quite good. At least massa has some balls

[Erki]

can I ask again: Is F1 just overtaking?

cause we're measuring the races taking count overtaking, and I think that's plain wrong, I'm happy F1 doesn't use artificial measures to have more overtaking, ok the race wasn't a classic to remember but I didn't find it boring at all.

Good to see some members here see beyond overtaking :)

I personally count most of Tilke's tracks as artificial measures for creating overtaking.

[ShiftingGears]

I personally count most of Tilke's tracks as artificial measures for creating overtaking.

True. Bahrain = BLEARGH. Also, what he did to Hockenheim was disgusting.

[Storm]

Kinda boring, but yes atleast Ferrari didn't sweep this one like Oz so maybe we are in for an interesting season where winners change with tracks (or rather alternate between SF and McLaren)

I am getting fed up with the inability of Honda, Toyota, RedBull (well not really) and Renault to mount any sort of challenge inspite of their resources.

[wmcot]

Today there were many times where images were showing the train of 7 cars, while the actionb were elsewhere. Formula1.com site was showing sector times, and it was supposed some overtakings, but they were not on TV.

Barrichello went from 22nd to 11th, Wurz from 19th to 9th, Fisichella from 12th to 6th, and Heikki from 11th to 8th; but we couldn't see almost nothing of those movements. Rosberg and Coulthard made good moves as well, but they catch director's attention mainly when they retired.

A good director could have made this race as interesting as it really was, but it doesn't reflected on TV.

I agree. The race wasn't exactly boring, but it wasn't the most exciting either. Most of the time the directors miss all the mid-field action while concentrating on the leaders. Have any of these "directors" ever heard of split-screen? There's a lot more to F1 racing than following the leaders for lap after lap.

[F1boat]

can I ask again: Is F1 just overtaking?



No, and I don't expect overtaking in Monaco or Imola. But Sepang is a wide track and cars should overtake easily. Can you imagine the race in Barcelona?

[XR8]

I watched the race for about ten minutes and then fell asleep! When I checked the finishing positions this morning I see that I did not miss anything. Same finishing postions as at the time I fell asleep.We raced the aussie race cars at bathurst this weekend. No one could ever fall asleeep as there was about five or six lead changes a lap and first place would regulary fall back to fifth and back up to first some laps. never boring! Why cant F1 put on a show like these pocket rockets!

[leopard]

Sepang, Shanghai are wide track that enable overtaking if you feel you are fast enough.

I am worried about a boring race because they aren't your favorite driver/team at the front. :)

[Kevincal]

I thought the first 10 minutes of the race was outstanding with a ton of action. The rest of the race was just your average F1 race, but not "boring" in my opinion...

[Ranger]

I thought the first 10 minutes of the race was outstanding with a ton of action. The rest of the race was just your average F1 race, but not "boring" in my opinion...

I agree. Boring is a standard usually set by Magny-Cours.

I wonder when we will see the first safety car period, as that will spice up races for people who cannot find it interesting.

[F1boat]

I agree. Boring is a standard usually set by Magny-Cours.

I wonder when we will see the first safety car period, as that will spice up races for people who cannot find it interesting.

"debris caution"

[penagate]

This year's race was a whole lot better than last years which was surprisingly dull and processional for Tilke track.

I didn't see this race, but I was under the impression that dull and processional were the norm for Tilke tracks.

[wedge]

I personally count most of Tilke's tracks as artificial measures for creating overtaking.

Why? It's a proven fact that a long straight with a large braking zone on a wide enough circuit will create overtaking.

John Hugenholtz set the precedent most memorably with the first corner at Jarama and Tarzan at Zandvoort.

Love him or loathe him, but apart from Shanghai, Tilke tracks have consistantly provided the best races with overtaking in recent years.

[ShiftingGears]

Though most people would prefer cars CAPABLE of passing on challenging, flowing circuits like Suzuka, Nurburgring, Bremgarten (insert former grand prix racetrack here) to make for good racing, rather than stop-go circuits like Bahrain catered for cars that cannot overtake in order to make the racing better. Even with Zandvoort and the Tarzankurve, the whole circuit has a FLOW to it that most Tilke tracks completely lack.
Really, the Tilke tracks are generally a bandaid solution and when aero developments continue to the point that f1 cars cannot pass on a circuit like Bahrain, or the new Fuji Speedway (errgghhh) then you're left with useless circuits that noone likes and will be forgotten (bar Bernies marketing strategy).

[BDunnell]

Speak for yourself. There are many on here, myself included, who have been watching F1 for more than 30 years.

I'm glad to see so many of you still think it was entertaining. That's just what Bernie and Max want to here. Personally I just don't see how there was any excitement after the first 10 laps. Even towards the end, with Kimi 'catching' Lewis when Lewis had obviously turned down his engine, ther was no real excitement for me because even if he had caught him there was no way he would have got close enough to pull off a pass. Kimi sat on Lewis's gearbox for long enough earlier in the race and couldn't do it then so I had no doubts that he wouldn't do it at the end of the race.

Like Tinchote I'll start taping the races in future :\

I would suggest that you have edited out all the boring races from the 'good old days' from your memory. Maybe there are fewer races from the current era that will go down as legendary in the same way as Monaco 1961, Monza 1967 or Dijon 1979, but in each of those seasons there were also, it goes without saying, races that were just as dull as anything we see today.

[djparky]

as a life long F1 fan I'd gradually stopped watching over the last few years (since 2001) partly as I couldn't stand watching yet another Schumi win every other weekend, or hear James Allen singing his praises for 2 hours (yes James we know....), seeing Williams decline into the midfield and frankly because the "racing" was rubbish- I found better things to do with my Sunday's

but since Schumi's gone into retirement I've found that I can indeed watch F1 again, the race in Melbourne was dull, but then it usually is, by Sepang standards I thought this one was ok

Martin Brundle hit the nail on the head during the commentary- remove all those hideous winglets and aero aids and it would improve the chances of overtaking- look at the new Champ Car- that's how to do it, or look at GP2- produces great racing- but has no aero aids beyond front and rear wings- oh and ditch those grooved wheels and go back to proper slicks

Nowadays I won't make any special effort to get home to watch it but I'll probably see Bahrain as it's on at a time of day when I'm usually at home (unless it clashes with NASCAR on NASN), last year pretty much the only european race I saw was Hungary, the rest I either missed entirely or only caught the end of- 10-15 years ago that wouldn't have happened

[schmenke]

Let’s recognise Formula 1 for what it is, or more importantly, what it isn't...

F1 is not a motorsport that lends itself to on-track overtaking.
Formula 1 differs from other motorsports in that it is much more of a constructors’ series, where a team puts together a package consisting of a car, engine, driver, etc. The purpose is to construct a package from the ground up that will dominate over other teams. This philosophy naturally results in a lack of overtaking on track because each team has a distinctly different package. Other motorpsort series rely on “spec” chassis, engines and other components (e.g. CCWS) which results in similar equipment on track, and thus, closer racing.

I follow F1 for more than its bi-weekly race. I follow the evolution and development of the teams as a whole, the “behind the scenes” world and how it manifests itself to the teams performance.

If you want to watch a bi-weekly race with overtaking might I suggest you watch another series :mark:

[trumperZ06]

the massa LH race was quite good. At least massa has some balls

:D Yep... that was some serious racing between Lewis Hamilton & Massa. As in most racing... when the leader's not being challenged.... he's often able to gain ground when those cars just behind him are dicing for position.

:dozey: We have Speed TV over here broadcasting F-1. Our announcers do a good job with explaining whats going on but... their TV feed comes from the country holding the race... so these guys are at the mercy of trying to follow whatever is being broadcast.

When the feed is from Italy... almost all we ever see on TV is the Italian Stallons.

[BDunnell]

Let’s recognise Formula 1 for what it is, or more importantly, what it isn't...

F1 is not a motorsport that lends itself to on-track overtaking.
Formula 1 differs from other motorsports in that it is much more of a constructors’ series, where a team puts together a package consisting of a car, engine, driver, etc. The purpose is to construct a package from the ground up that will dominate over other teams. This philosophy naturally results in a lack of overtaking on track because each team has a distinctly different package. Other motorpsort series rely on “spec” chassis, engines and other components (e.g. CCWS) which results in similar equipment on track, and thus, closer racing.

I follow F1 for more than its bi-weekly race. I follow the evolution and development of the teams as a whole, the “behind the scenes” world and how it manifests itself to the teams performance.

If you want to watch a bi-weekly race with overtaking might I suggest you watch another series :mark:

That's all very well, but overtaking was possible when the ethos of F1 was as you describe. It is in part a simple matter of aerodynamics, alterations to which would not in any way diminish the status of F1 as the pinnacle of motorsport, nor reduce the behind-the-scenes machinations that you enjoy so much.

I should add that I find it rather sad that overtaking seems to have become a dirty word as far as some F1 fans are concerned — that overtaking is something that happens in lesser formulae, that it's somehow beneath F1. While I don't like the idea of spicing up the racing through any artificial or manipulative means (which do not include aerodynamic alterations), this should not be the case.

[Hazell B]

can I ask again: Is F1 just overtaking?



No, it's far more. Thing is, most of what I saw on sunday wasn't that thrilling really. One or two cars passing each other would have lifted it from a mildly boring parade to a damned good race. Race being the important word there ;)


One of the problems we Brits have is that our team on the mikes know what's coming as far as strategy and have already talked it to death before it's even happened. We're left with nothing to think and wonder about during the race, so it seems boring.

I wouldn't swap the comments we get, yet feel after some races I might aswell have read a book and just listened in to their chatter with half an ear.

[slinkster]

I follow F1 for more than its bi-weekly race. I follow the evolution and development of the teams as a whole, the “behind the scenes” world and how it manifests itself to the teams performance.


My thoughts too. I guess it's just the way it is... I'll admit to having fallen asleep on a sunday afternoon in the middle of a race, similarly I feel less inclined to get up stupidly early for some of the races... but I'll watch them nonetheless and I still enjoy it a hell of a lot more than other sports.

I wonder how much of it is down to the tv coverage sometimes.

It's still early in the season and there's lots that could happen in terms of racing, new teams and drivers etc. Give them chance to get going and find their feet.

[ioan]

I follow F1 for more than its bi-weekly race. I follow the evolution and development of the teams as a whole, the “behind the scenes” world and how it manifests itself to the teams performance.

And you are not the only one, there are others that do the same.
But come race day I could care less about what happened behind the scenes and would like to see that a car comfortably running 0.5 seconds behind can have a chance to overtake the one in front when it has two 1000 meters straights at disposal. that clearly wasn't the case last week end.

[Bezza]

The only way to create more overtaking opportunities is by having a lottery in qualifying or reversing the grid. However, this is false and does not reward the teams who do the best job. It is not F1, and never has been. Sure, in other era's overtaking was easier, but it was never out-and-out constant overtaking. When a really exciting race comes along (i.e. Hungary 2006) then you get really really excited because it is not the norm. NASCAR has tons of overtaking but is complete drivel to watch, and incredibly false (debris cautions!).

I suppose its the Americans who don't like F1, I can see why. Basketball (a womens game), Baseball (a womens game) and Grid-Iron (rugby but with more protection, the softies) are all painfully boring to me. High scores, high scores, high scores. Its all you seem to care about. Sorry but 98-91 may sound good but the variety in basketball is very limited.

[Hazell B]

Basketball (a womens game), Baseball (a womens game) and Grid-Iron (rugby but with more protection, the softies) .....

Oi! :laugh:

I am soooo going to whack you with my cricket bat, polo stick or horsewhip! :p :

[e2mtt]

Bezza, quite dissin' our sports. Its rude, and don't get me started on the sissy play-acting I see in your "football".


The only way to create more overtaking opportunities is by having a lottery in qualifying or reversing the grid. However, this is false and does not reward the teams who do the best job. It is not F1, and never has been. Sure, in other era's overtaking was easier, but it was never out-and-out constant overtaking. When a really exciting race comes along (i.e. Hungary 2006) then you get really really excited because it is not the norm. NASCAR has tons of overtaking but is complete drivel to watch, and incredibly false (debris cautions!)...

I agree totally. We DON'T need F1 changed via gimmicks in order force more overtaking.

There are two more reasons overtaking is down, that haven't been discussed much on this thread. Driver precision, and higher speeds.

First, the drivers train harder then possibly ever before, have more coaches & fitness experts, run simulations & video games, have live radio in-race, etc., all to help them avoid in-race mistakes. Fewer driver errors = fewer overtaking opportunities.

The ever increasing speeds in F1 directly convert to decreased opportunities for overtaking. Shorter out-braking passing zones from better brakes, higher cornering speed allowing for less braking altogether, better handling and downforce resulting in fewer "tricky" corners, faster acceleration making for less penalty for mistakes, and other similar factors all decrease overtaking.

There isn't any way to make these factors go away.

[tinchote]

No, it's far more. Thing is, most of what I saw on sunday wasn't that thrilling really. One or two cars passing each other would have lifted it from a mildly boring parade to a damned good race. Race being the important word there ;)


One of the problems we Brits have is that our team on the mikes know what's coming as far as strategy and have already talked it to death before it's even happened. We're left with nothing to think and wonder about during the race, so it seems boring.

I wouldn't swap the comments we get, yet feel after some races I might aswell have read a book and just listened in to their chatter with half an ear.

I agree with that. But a big part of the problem now is that for 10 years in a row now, the rules changes have constantly hurt the racing more and more. And I'm not talking about overtaking. In 98/99 and even later, we still had some strategy to make the race interesting: one top team would be on a one-stopper and the other in two, things like that were usual. Nowadays everybody is basically on the same strategy. This was forced by the stupid-stupid-stupid rules of qualifying with race-fuel, and extended engine use. At least in my case, those two rules -- and not the silly aero-bits -- are what make me drift away from F1.

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Well the extended engine rule ( 2 races) SUCK !!!

Aerodynamics have hurt too.

Kimi was pretty well out of the race this past weekend due to the engine water leak from Australia... Ferrari reduced the revs (power) to assure the engine survied !!!

The teams spend Millions to run in F-1, and then are forced to use one engine for two races... Mad Max is an Idiot.

Aerodynamics have increased cornering speed... making it hard to late brake going into a turn and make a pass stick. Also it has reduced the opportunity to pass... as you close up on the car you're chasing, you lose downforce on the front wing.

[Kevincal]

Well, after watching a couple of A1 GP races during the Winter, I think all F1 needs is a couple dozen power boosts during a race. Since revs are limited to 19,000 rpms, the power boost could simply lift the rev limit to 20,000 rpms (or higher...) for a short period, say 10 seconds each. Give each driver say...25 power boosts lasting 10 seconds each a race, and I think we won't be complaining about lack of overtaking. :D

[schmenke]

Well, after watching a couple of A1 GP races during the Winter, I think all F1 needs is a couple dozen power boosts during a race. Since revs are limited to 19,000 rpms, the power boost could simply lift the rev limit to 20,000 rpms (or higher...) for a short period, say 10 seconds each. Give each driver say...25 power boosts lasting 10 seconds each a race, and I think we won't be complaining about lack of overtaking. :D

That's exactly the kind of "gimmick" I'd rather not see in F1 :mark:

[BeansBeansBeans]

Well, after watching a couple of A1 GP races during the Winter, I think all F1 needs is a couple dozen power boosts during a race. Since revs are limited to 19,000 rpms, the power boost could simply lift the rev limit to 20,000 rpms (or higher...) for a short period, say 10 seconds each. Give each driver say...25 power boosts lasting 10 seconds each a race, and I think we won't be complaining about lack of overtaking. :D

Why not give the pit crews water pistols to shoot at opposing drivers?

That should liven up the show.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Admittedly F1, could do with a bit more overtaking/closer racing. But F1 is fine as it is. I like the fact that F1 is considered difficult to overtake.

BTW its normal for the leader to have a large margin over the rest of the field.

If you want entertainment, stick with touring cars, NASCAR, IRL etc....

Here is why I think most f1 fans are nuts. IF YOU WANT ENTERTAINMENT...... ummm duhh, I am not being paid to watch this dreck ya know.

It is really simple. Go find some videotape of f1 races in the late 70's and early 80's. Watch Arnoux and Villeneuve's epic battle at Dijon. Watch the cars sliding and powering through the corners at Monaco. Then watch today's f1. I can tell you that you will not know they were the same sport. F1 is so antiseptic, that when two cars get side by side, the announcers have an orgasm.

F1 is overpriced, and it underdelivers. The cars and drivers and teams are the pinnacle of motorsport, the courses are safe, the facilities are wonderful, and I almost always flip around to see what is on other channels when Iam watching f1. Why? because nothing happens. I have been a racing fan for 35 plus years, going back to my first Canadian GP when I was 6 at Mosport. I have worked in racing as a volunteer for roadracing for years. I have watched enough racing to understand that f1 is just not that exciting. I enjoy watching qualifiying more than the actual races now because I know I will see all the cars and I will see an end at some point. F1 races just are a snore after 5 laps. When an exciting pit strategy is the way to get around someone, there is a problem.

For those of you who think f1 is the only way to go, god help you, you really have brainwashed yourselves. F1 is ok, can have moments, is the pinnacle of racing technology, but entertaining? Well, no, not really. I don't need to see a pass every lap, but it would be nice to see battles for the lead. I cant remember the last time there was a serious duel for the lead, and if there was one last year, I doubt there was two.

[jarrambide]

Ok Mark, get the Dijon battle, but please, get the tapes from all the races of that season, and watch them from start to finish. Memories are great, you tend to forget the bad and only remember the good, that is why everything was better in the past, the good old days.

[DexDexter]

Speak for yourself. There are many on here, myself included, who have been watching F1 for more than 30 years.

I'm glad to see so many of you still think it was entertaining. That's just what Bernie and Max want to here. Personally I just don't see how there was any excitement after the first 10 laps. Even towards the end, with Kimi 'catching' Lewis when Lewis had obviously turned down his engine, ther was no real excitement for me because even if he had caught him there was no way he would have got close enough to pull off a pass. Kimi sat on Lewis's gearbox for long enough earlier in the race and couldn't do it then so I had no doubts that he wouldn't do it at the end of the race.

Like Tinchote I'll start taping the races in future :\

I've only been following F1 since 1982 and ever since that day there's always been talk of F1 being boring...In my mind F1 is certainly not as boring as it was, say in 1988 or 1992 (oh man that was a horrible year)... It's just the way people are, we have a habit of thinking that in the old days things were better....Perhaps it's also a case of seeing too many races, after a while one has seen it all...

[tinchote]

Ok Mark, get the Dijon battle, but please, get the tapes from all the races of that season, and watch them from start to finish. Memories are great, you tend to forget the bad and only remember the good, that is why everything was better in the past, the good old days.

That arguments fails when you consider that those of us who are finding F1 boring these days, didn't find it like that in the past. We are not comparing what we see with what we remember.

Fact is that for many years I would never lose a qualy session nor a race (and for example I'm talking about having no tv and being at 4am at a gas station with my wife and my then 3 and 1 year-old daughters). But these days many of us who used to do that kind of stuff are skipping qualy, taping the race, switching channels, falling asleep. Something has changed; maybe it's us, but I'm not that sure.

[ioan]

That arguments fails when you consider that those of us who are finding F1 boring these days, didn't find it like that in the past. We are not comparing what we see with what we remember.

Fact is that for many years I would never lose a qualy session nor a race (and for example I'm talking about having no tv and being at 4am at a gas station with my wife and my then 3 and 1 year-old daughters). But these days many of us who used to do that kind of stuff are skipping qualy, taping the race, switching channels, falling asleep. Something has changed; maybe it's us, but I'm not that sure.

Right you are.

Years ago, and not 30 years ago, only 17 - 18, I woke up in the middle of the night and watch F1, I didn't miss a race for 15 years, no matter how difficult it was to get in front of a TV, but now I rarely watch qualy and also skip 2 - 3 race per season to do something else Sunday afternoon.

When a car 0.4 seconds behind, and faster, can't overtake on a 1000 m long straight than there is some problem with this series.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Cricket, soccer, F1 ... F$*&'n most boring sports on the planet ... good thing they're not popular in NA but then again, nothing beats the NHL, NFL and NBA.

:s mokin:

Please promise me that you will never post on this forum again :mad: Do not try and compare F1, cricket & "soccer" :erm: to NFL and NBA. It's very insulting.


The best way to spice up F1 is to make the track wet before the race , or for Bridgestone to make a tyre that falls apart after 5 laps.

[donKey jote]

I just watched the Spanish coverage of Sepang and I must say, the German version was most definitely boring :p : :D :D

[race aficionado]

I just watched the Spanish coverage of Sepang and I must say, the German version was most definitely boring :p : :D :D

What I find interesting is that the Fernando Alonso fans are very subdued.
:o
Their man wins and they just smile and don't rub it in others peoples faces nor start multiple threads praising their man.

. . . . Donks, is Spain proud of their man Fernando? I sure hope so. In Colombia whenever Juan is on and is available on TV, many are watching.

Your man is doing very good.

:s mokin:

[donKey jote]

What I find interesting is that the Fernando Alonso fans are very subdued.

Their man wins and they just smile and don't rub it in others peoples faces nor start multiple threads praising their man.

spurofthemomentdonkeypost (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=240349&postcount=6) :uhoh: :p : :D

[race aficionado]

subdued???
I stand corrected! :D





:s mokin:

[BDunnell]

Here is why I think most f1 fans are nuts. IF YOU WANT ENTERTAINMENT...... ummm duhh, I am not being paid to watch this dreck ya know.

It is really simple. Go find some videotape of f1 races in the late 70's and early 80's. Watch Arnoux and Villeneuve's epic battle at Dijon. Watch the cars sliding and powering through the corners at Monaco. Then watch today's f1. I can tell you that you will not know they were the same sport. F1 is so antiseptic, that when two cars get side by side, the announcers have an orgasm.

F1 is overpriced, and it underdelivers. The cars and drivers and teams are the pinnacle of motorsport, the courses are safe, the facilities are wonderful, and I almost always flip around to see what is on other channels when Iam watching f1. Why? because nothing happens. I have been a racing fan for 35 plus years, going back to my first Canadian GP when I was 6 at Mosport. I have worked in racing as a volunteer for roadracing for years. I have watched enough racing to understand that f1 is just not that exciting. I enjoy watching qualifiying more than the actual races now because I know I will see all the cars and I will see an end at some point. F1 races just are a snore after 5 laps. When an exciting pit strategy is the way to get around someone, there is a problem.

For those of you who think f1 is the only way to go, god help you, you really have brainwashed yourselves. F1 is ok, can have moments, is the pinnacle of racing technology, but entertaining? Well, no, not really. I don't need to see a pass every lap, but it would be nice to see battles for the lead. I cant remember the last time there was a serious duel for the lead, and if there was one last year, I doubt there was two.

I agree with every word you say, but isn't the manner in which F1 has developed unavoidable to an extent because of the way in which it has become a global business, something I'm sure you don't disagree with? I equate the relative dullness of F1 with corporate blandness.

In addition, I can't help but feel that you are looking at the past through rose-tinted spectacles. I am younger than you, but even so I have spoken to plenty of people who have been F1 enthusiasts for a long time, and they all say that there have been dull races for as long as they remember. It doesn't make it any more disappointing that there are no longer the furious battles of a 1967 Italian GP or a 1979 French GP (by the way, I do find it sad that many younger F1 fans, and also many younger F1 drivers, don't have a clue why I'm referring to those races), but, as Denis Jenkinson wrote after the latter, "All races cannot be good, but you should watch all the races so that when one is good you don't miss it".

[e2mtt]

I thought the start of Sundays race was quite exciting, and the Massa vs. Hamilton was a great tussle. As jarrambide said above, for every exciting race in any year, there were many more dull ones.

2 race engines, having to qualify on race load fuel (knockouts are cool though), and having to run 2 different tire compounds every race are all gimmicks that HURT the show.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

2-race engines turns the event into an endurance, and that really spoils the show.

[BDunnell]

2-race engines turns the event into an endurance, and that really spoils the show.

Does it now, though? I haven't thought about it in the course of watching the first two races of 2007. The teams seem to have adapted to the rule quite well now, to the extent where the races don't seem like reliability runs.

[race aficionado]

. . . . but, as Denis Jenkinson wrote after the latter, "All races cannot be good, but you should watch all the races so that when one is good you don't miss it".

Every race I watch - and this from a fan that has lost his fave racer from the F1 roster - I get excited by just watching the spectacle of those wonderful looking cars. There is something about the F1 circus that attracts me and I am just waiting for a great race to happen everytime I'm watching one.
Granted, it doesn't happen everytime and not often but In the not so many years that I have been watching, I have been witness to some fantastic races and they appear out of nowhere like when it rains, or a crazy fan walks across the track and causes a mess up in the racing order or there is a great come from behind or a great fight for the front . . . .
heck, if TV directors allowed us we would witness some mid pack battles that would have us all cheering but we never get to witness . . .

It eventually happens and if you wait, you will again witness an event that will lighten up all the racing forums everywhere with excited fan chatter.

Can't wait. :p

:s mokin:

[wedge]

In addition, I can't help but feel that you are looking at the past through rose-tinted spectacles. I am younger than you, but even so I have spoken to plenty of people who have been F1 enthusiasts for a long time, and they all say that there have been dull races for as long as they remember. It doesn't make it any more disappointing that there are no longer the furious battles of a 1967 Italian GP or a 1979 French GP (by the way, I do find it sad that many younger F1 fans, and also many younger F1 drivers, don't have a clue why I'm referring to those races), but, as Denis Jenkinson wrote after the latter, "All races cannot be good, but you should watch all the races so that when one is good you don't miss it".

:up:

Were there anymore great races in '79 or was it only at Dijon?

Also most people's access to visual history are documentaries, DVDs, videos, youtube. Full re-run/repeats of past races are rarely shown in its entirety.

We have selective memory and want to remember the good things in life.

Murray Walker mentions that Mansell and Senna were the drivers most talked about and yet most people would rather forget/not mention that Prost demolished the opposition and when he won a particular race. That concept still applies when people mention the good ol' days of F1.


2-race engines turns the event into an endurance, and that really spoils the show.

We had the same problem when refuelling was banned. Cars would suddenly slow down during the latter stages of the race because the drivers were afraid they would run out of fuel. But hey, that didn't stop the 1980s from being a golden era!

[ShiftingGears]

:up:

Were there anymore great races in '79 or was it only at Dijon?

Also most people's access to visual history are documentaries, DVDs, videos, youtube. Full re-run/repeats of past races are rarely shown in its entirety.

We have selective memory and want to remember the good things in life.

Murray Walker mentions that Mansell and Senna were the drivers most talked about and yet most people would rather forget/not mention that Prost demolished the opposition and when he won a particular race. That concept still applies when people mention the good ol' days of F1.


Off the top of my head there were still very memorable moments from 1979, at Watkins Glen Villeneuve grabbed pole position by 9 seconds! At Zandvoort he passed Alan Jones around the outside of Tarzankurve, and later suffered a tyre puncture, and drove back around the circuit on three wheels, refusing to concede defeat. Also, I think theres still the whole Kyalami race from '79 on youtube.

And about Alain, no doubt the man was a genius, but it was Senna and Mansell that tended to do the most spectacular things, like passing drivers for position around the outside of the Peraltada, for instance. Alain was unspectacular in comparison. Brilliant, but unspectacular.

[tinchote]

Off the top of my head there were still very memorable moments from 1979, at Watkins Glen Villeneuve grabbed pole position by 9 seconds!

I have no idea where you got that from. In his whole career, JV got two pole positions: at Long Beach 79, by 0.061 seconds; and at Imola 81, by .706. Curiously, in both cases 2nd in the grid was Reutemann.

At Watkins Glen 79, JV started 3rd.

[rickos]

Please promise me that you will never post on this forum again :mad: Do not try and compare F1, cricket & "soccer" :erm: to NFL and NBA. It's very insulting.


The best way to spice up F1 is to make the track wet before the race , or for Bridgestone to make a tyre that falls apart after 5 laps.

How 'bout "soccer" and darts - enough to give an F1 fan cardiac arrest! And it's all fun and games until someone gets one in the eye.

Football is for the NFL, not "kicky-ball" in cute little short-shorts.
:s mokin:

[rickos]

I have no idea where you got that from. In his whole career, JV got two pole positions: at Long Beach 79, by 0.061 seconds; and at Imola 81, by .706. Curiously, in both cases 2nd in the grid was Reutemann.

At Watkins Glen 79, JV started 3rd.

I believe he's talkin' about a practice session in the wet at WG.
:s mokin:

[BDunnell]

And I believe we're talking about GV, not JV.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Football is for the NFL, not "kicky-ball" in cute little short-shorts.
:s mokin:

NFL - a load of men in very tight pants, rolling around with each other in the mud. Seems kind of gay :erm:

[Erki]

I believe he's talkin' about a practice session in the wet at WG.
:s mokin:

But how many of them were pushing in that session anyway?

[ShiftingGears]

But how many of them were pushing in that session anyway?


6, including his teammate, Scheckter.

[ArrowsFA1]

I believe he's talkin' about a practice session in the wet at WG.
:s mokin:
Indeed :cool: After which Jacques Laffite said "Why do we bother? He's different from the rest of us. On another level ..." and his team-mate Scheckter said "I scared myself rigid that day. I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds!"

[tinchote]

Football is for the NFL, not "kicky-ball" in cute little short-shorts.
:s mokin:

And you are saying that when you are talking about the NFL, with their cute tight pants and their cute little "don't hurt me" helmets? :eek:

[tinchote]

I believe he's talkin' about a practice session in the wet at WG.
:s mokin:

But then that's pointless to the thread: we are talking about F1 (and races, mostly) being boring or not: how many people watched that session? Was it on tv? I don't think so.


And I believe we're talking about GV, not JV.

Most likely, as JV was 8 and 10 years old in the dates I mentioned.