Aprc 2013

[Humber]

Toyota are to enter the 2013 APRC.
APRC.TV - Asia Pacific Rally Championship Television Production News (http://www.aprc.tv/newsPage.php?Toyota-Enters-2013-Asia-Pacific-Rally-Championship-647)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Registered entries, so far. It seems Proton won't be entering the 1st round.......and maybe not the championship, this year.

http://www.fiaaprc.com/media/2013/04/aprc-entry-list-2013-3.pdf

[HarriK]

Wow!
Esapekka Lappi &Janne Ferm are registered entries in APRC

[Humber]

Lappi and Gill to drive for MRF

[liposh]

To be honest I am a little bit confused...or more than just little bit :D Lappi´s program in WRC2 is quite huge and moreover he has to learn a lot (and he will, because it is Skoda Motorsport plan) during this year on tarmac. Why MRF didn´t choose for example Chris Meeke?

[rp]

To be honest I am a little bit confused...or more than just little bit :D Lappi´s program in WRC2 is quite huge and moreover he has to learn a lot (and he will, because it is Skoda Motorsport plan) during this year on tarmac. Why MRF didn´t choose for example Chris Meeke?

Surely there would have been also Chris Atkinson and Hayden Paddon, but MRF is using Skoda and of course Skoda Motorsport wants that their own driver can drive more events if it will be possible. Maybe there is also Volkswagen connection and they want that Lappi´s program is much larger than originally planned...

[HarriK]

Let's wait for Skoda's official announcement about this Lappi&APRC. At least I'm also a little bit confused about this.

[Rally Hokkaido]

Registered entries, so far. It seems Proton won't be entering the 1st round.......and maybe not the championship, this year.

http://www.fiaaprc.com/media/2013/04/aprc-entry-list-2013-3.pdf

Looking more like Proton won''t be in any championship, this year. 6 x Proton Satria S2000. Rallycars.info (http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/clas/index.php?ct=fsrc&md=details&id=69338)

[HarriK]

APRC.TV - Asia Pacific Rally Championship Television Production News (http://www.aprc.tv/newsPage.php?KODA-confirms-entry-in-2013-Asia-Pacific-Championship-648)

[makinen_fan]

Now it is confirmed that Lappi will do the APRC (From his twitter account):

@EsapekkaLappi1h
It's official, we go to Asia, APRC with Skoda-MRF team! Lot of experience from new rallies and much time in the Skoda Fabia S2000 (:

[liposh]

Entry lists of rally Whangarei published: Entry Lists - International Rally of Whangarei 17?19 May 2013 (http://www.rallywhangarei.co.nz/spectator-info/entry-lists) I am asking myself: Who will Esapekka Lappi compete with? 16 people and only his teammate in same class. If they both have factory or half-factory cars, the difference between them and rest of field would be galactically big. Maybe Hayden Paddon who runs only in NZ field would be a little bit faster, but not as fast as factory fabia s2000.

[Mirek]

Fabias will be on MRF tyres so Hayden theoretically can be an opponent.

Ý kiến của bạn hay quá, rất động đáo.
Mình cảm ơn bạn nhiều, chia sẻ của bạn rất hữu ích.
Hãy chia sẽ những ý kiến hay hơn nữa nhé.
Cảm ơn và trân trọng.

Your comments are so good and special.
Thank you much, your share is useful.
Let's share more ideas like this.
Thanks and best regards.

[leighton323]

Fabias will be on MRF tyres so Hayden theoretically can be an opponent.

So IF Paddon is faster what does that then prove? It's either Lappi is not used to NZ roads and it's Paddon's favourite rally, the MRF tyres are useless, or Paddon is actually a very fast driver and deserves further recognition. I highly doubt anybody will acknowledge the third IF it does happen, even though it is apparent to myself and a few fellow members that this may be such the case.

[Mirek]

No, You got it wrong. I have a huge respect for Hayden Paddon but fact is that in normal conditions the difference between S2000 and gr.N cars is so huge that considering known level of Lappi it shall be close to impossible for Hayden to keep with him. That is as I said in normal conditions. One of the biggest questions here is the tyres. I don't say they are useless and I actually don't think so but on the other hand I keep considering Michelin as the very best rally tyres available. All in all hats off for Hayden if he wins. Here on forum it's often seen that many members acts like Hayden is somehow underrated. Definitely he isn't, be sure we all know about him.

[leighton323]

No, You got it wrong. I have a huge respect for Hayden Paddon but fact is that in normal conditions the difference between S2000 and gr.N cars is so huge that considering known level of Lappi it shall be close to impossible for Hayden to keep with him. That is as I said in normal conditions. One of the biggest questions here is the tyres. I don't say they are useless and I actually don't think so but on the other hand I keep considering Michelin as the very best rally tyres available. All in all hats off for Hayden if he wins. Here on forum it's often seen that many members acts like Hayden is somehow underrated. Definitely he isn't, be sure we all know about him.

Yes you are exactly right. Lappi is a very good benchmark, and he is my new favourite up and coming driver at the moment. I just wish Skoda would share there support a bit more. A full WRC2, Czech championship and APRC campaign seems as awful lot for just one driver when there are a lot of young up and coming drivers who could use a bit of that support. Not sure the details on who is paying for the APRC deal though. However I guess he has earned the factory support with his results so far which is fair enough.

[Mirek]

I'm afraid WRC2 is closed chapter for Lappi besides NORF and maybe Australia with MRF. It looks like it's VW strategy to have Wiegand there winning...

Lappi will do only one full championship, the APRC. Here in CZ he is supposed to do only several single events to learn driving on asphalt (ERC Barum sure). Škoda Motorsport is not present in our championship this year presumably because of the present negative media image of rallying here. I believe it's possible he could do several extra events in ERC too. It's still a lot of events but it's all a bit too messy...

[liposh]

Well, if that part about VW and Wiegand is true, than it all sucks. Lappi in APRC where he can´t compare with anybody (except Gill) and Wiegand in WRC2 again with anybody to compare with. Yes, you can say that in WRC2 there is a lot of good drivers, but nobody like Wiegand with such a massive support. Anyway happy for Lappi at Barum.

[smokin'joe]

No, You got it wrong. I have a huge respect for Hayden Paddon but fact is that in normal conditions the difference between S2000 and gr.N cars is so huge that considering known level of Lappi it shall be close to impossible for Hayden to keep with him. That is as I said in normal conditions. One of the biggest questions here is the tyres. I don't say they are useless and I actually don't think so but on the other hand I keep considering Michelin as the very best rally tyres available. All in all hats off for Hayden if he wins. Here on forum it's often seen that many members acts like Hayden is somehow underrated. Definitely he isn't, be sure we all know about him.

bear in mind that Hayden has updated the spec of the E9 to R4. so i don't believe it will be night and day between him and Lappi.

[Mirek]

That's good news definitely ;)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Of course, any battle between them will be of major interest to fans, of little to the drivers concerned and of absolutely none to their respective teams, unless Hayden actually registers for APRC (unlikely).


bear in mind that Hayden has updated the spec of the E9 to R4. so i don't believe it will be night and day between him and Lappi.

[EightGear]

I'm afraid WRC2 is closed chapter for Lappi besides NORF and maybe Australia with MRF. It looks like it's VW strategy to have Wiegand there winning...


That would be a shame. I must say I don't really like VW's strategy of controlling everything the way they want it to.

[Comal]

With our rules being opened up here in NZ this year I would expect Westy & Mason to be on Lappi's pace if not ahead and Paddon further ahead. Few guys running R4 (some not true R4 but similar spec's) and 36mm restrictor.
Also sad that is Hawkeswood's last outing in his Audi replica.

[leighton323]

With our rules being opened up here in NZ this year I would expect Westy & Mason to be on Lappi's pace if not ahead and Paddon further ahead. Few guys running R4 (some not true R4 but similar spec's) and 36mm restrictor.
Also sad that is Hawkeswood's last outing in his Audi replica.

Mason and Westy will be miles behind Lappi, Paddon maybe just on par. I expect Gill to be just behind Paddon and Lappi and just infront of the rest of the NZders. Don't underestimate Lappi's speed, he will be fast ;)

[Humber]

I expect the weather, tyre choice and road position to be the key factors at Whangarei. The rain model shows some rain moving in for the rally after being dry before the rally. If it is wet, drivers near the front could be better off. I would expect both Skoda S2000s to be quicker than the local drivers if it is wet.

[Mirek]

Mason and Westy will be miles behind Lappi, Paddon maybe just on par. I expect Gill to be just behind Paddon and Lappi and just infront of the rest of the NZders. Don't underestimate Lappi's speed, he will be fast ;)

That's interesting, can You be more specific who would use 36 mm restrictor in Whangarei? If I understand right locals will run it and will be therefore in different classification than APRC drivers?

[Humber]

Ben Hunt's Impreza is entered in APRC. The Regs are at NZ Rally Championship | MotorSport New Zealand (http://www.motorsport.org.nz/sport/rally/championships/nzrc) (18th December 2012 the bottom entry - maximum of 36 mm restrictor)

[Humber]

Gill (MRF) aims higher. APRC.TV - Asia Pacific Rally Championship Television Production News (http://aprc.tv/newsPage.php?I-work-best-under-pressure-says-Gill-654)

[Rally Hokkaido]

As Humber, states there is only one NZ crew running an N4 car in the APRC round. All other NZ 4WD crews are running to NZ1 regulations in the piggyback National event that follows behind. So on Day1 Paddon will be driving the stages about 40mins after Lappi.
That's interesting, can You be more specific who would use 36 mm restrictor in Whangarei? If I understand right locals will run it and will be therefore in different classification than APRC drivers?

[Rally Hokkaido]

As Humber states, there is only one NZ crew running an N4 car in the APRC round. All other NZ 4WD crews are running to NZ1 regulations in the piggyback National event that follows behind. So on Day1 Paddon will be driving the stages about 40mins after Lappi.


That's interesting, can You be more specific who would use 36 mm restrictor in Whangarei? If I understand right locals will run it and will be therefore in different classification than APRC drivers?

[HarriK]

Rally Whangarei ss1 starts within 10minutes.
Result page: ChrisSport (http://www.chrissport.co.nz/results/2013/whangarei/eventindex.htm)

[stefanvv]

Rally Whangarei ss1 starts within 10minutes.
Result page: ChrisSport (http://www.chrissport.co.nz/results/2013/whangarei/eventindex.htm)

Interesting splits page with graphics and so on

[leighton323]

Interesting splits page with graphics and so on
If you guys really want to follow the rally, check out rallysafe. Has live tracking, splits and times of all cars competing.
RallySafe Application - International Rally of Whangarei (http://rallysafe.azurewebsites.net/Event/PublicView/14)
Paddon has just won the first stage by about 23sec ahead of Lappi, big margin in only one stage

[stefanvv]

If you guys really want to follow the rally, check out rallysafe. Has live tracking, splits and times of all cars competing.
RallySafe Application - International Rally of Whangarei (http://rallysafe.azurewebsites.net/Event/PublicView/14)
Paddon has just won the first stage by about 23sec ahead of Lappi, big margin in only one stage

Great one too :)

Yes, looks like Lappi is not that fast at the moment. Lets see the other stages

[leighton323]

Great one too :)

Yes, looks like Lappi is not that fast at the moment. Lets see the other stages
Gill has improved a lot recently, he was on par with Atkinson, PG Andersson and McRae last year so i'm expecting a good battle :)

[stefanvv]

Gill has improved a lot recently, he was on par with Atkinson, PG Andersson and McRae last year so i'm expecting a good battle :)

Not bad, not bad, looks like there will be more competition with Mason too, I didn't expect that to be honest. My favorite though is Hawkeswood with the AUDI S1 replica :D He's doing not so bad on the first stage.

[stefanvv]

What cars are Paddon & Mason are running? I just saw they are only in New Zealand championship

[smokin'joe]

What cars are Paddon & Mason are running? I just saw they are only in New Zealand championship

Paddon Evo 9 R4,
Mason Subaru V?? Gp N (+maybe ?)

[stefanvv]

Paddon Evo 9 R4,
Mason Subaru V?? Gp N (+maybe ?)

So, not something like bigger restrictor probably?

Lappi pulled quite ahead at SS3, some problems for Gill at the beginning?

[Mirek]

NZRC cars have 36 mm restrictor as written in some previous posts, that is approximately 20% more power than FIA R4 cars, that must be around 350-360 Hp.

[Carlo]

NZRC cars have 36 mm restrictor as written in some previous posts, that is approximately 20% more power than FIA R4 cars, that must be around 350-360 Hp.

I understand that both Paddon and Mason are running to R4 specifications rather than the NZ open specs and that Hunt is running in the Gp N form as used by Emma last season. Hunt has no plans for upgrading the car until he has gained more experience with 4wd remembering that his is only his 2nd event with the car.

[leighton323]

NZRC cars have 36 mm restrictor as written in some previous posts, that is approximately 20% more power than FIA R4 cars, that must be around 350-360 Hp.
I believe Paddon is running pure R4 specs so only 33mm restrictor? and Mason AFAIK is running roughly group N with small modifications but i don't believe he is running a 36mm restrictor. I'm not to sure though. May have changed since Rally Otago

[sollitt]

What do you call the men who are faster than "the man who is faster than GOD"?

[stefanvv]

What happened to Hawkeswood on SS5?

[Mirek]

I believe Paddon is running pure R4 specs so only 33mm restrictor? and Mason AFAIK is running roughly group N with small modifications but i don't believe he is running a 36mm restrictor. I'm not to sure though. May have changed since Rally Otago

It would be good if somebody could make it clear :) Last week some forum members said Paddon would run 36 mm so I thought it was like that.

[liposh]

Logically, Paddon runs only NZRC, not APRC. Only dummy would drive with 33 mm restrictor, when he can use 36 mm restrictor. :)

[Mirek]

Some little info from Škoda. Lappi said it was great fun but in the morning loop very difficult due to a thick fog. Time lost by Gill on SS3 was caused by minor off.

[HarriK]

In my opinion, Paddon uses 36mm restrictor. No way he's 23sec faster with 33mm restrictor in SS1 (21km).

[Carlo]

My understanding is that Hayden is running in R4 spec for the reason that he is testing himself against the APRC competitors and that he along with some others are being observed. His speed relative to the likes of Mason & West etc is what we have become used to. It is situation normal.

[sollitt]

there was a news item earlier in the week stating that Hayden's car is 100% R4 spec but not in APRC because some components were locally produced saving around $40,000 which they believe is better saved for the WRC campaign.

[Carlo]

I think that if you went to Hayden Paddon's facebook page and looked at his Saturday blog you would see how quick he is and why he is so quick. Amongst other things his pace through the fog and low cloud whilst going over crests on a wet and slippery road shows absolute trust and commitment to his notes.

[ThomasS]

Paddon comes home approx 3.40 mins ahead of Lappi in the "unofficial" results.

Mason in a Group N spec WRX comes in only 36 sec behind Lappi and ahead of Gill.

[HarriK]

What tyres Paddon used compared to Mrf?

[ThomasS]

Dunlop.

But whatever Paddon was on Lappi was completely unimpressive against an R4 EVO. Abet with a 36mm restrictor but with a whopping 180kgs more weight than the skoda.

[Carlo]

Dunlop.

But whatever Paddon was on Lappi was completely unimpressive against an R4 EVO. Abet with a 36mm restrictor but with a whopping 180kgs more weight than the skoda.

You are wrong about the restrictor size but to be fair to Lappi he did not have the same level of competition in the APRC event that Hayden had in the NZRC event. Had they both been chasing a result in the same event then I am sure that the gap would have been much closer.

Could I suggest that you go to ChrisSport - Home (http://www.chrissport.co.nz) and have a look at the stage times and the stage records from previous years then you will find that it wasn't so much that Paddon was fast but rather that the APRC field was slow. Go back and look at the stage results from last year and again you will find that Paddon in a S2000 Skoda was setting faster times than the S2000 Skodas were this year.

As for tyres Paddon like many of the NZ cars, was using Dunlops.

You can find a bit more info and some good in car stuff on Hayden's facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddonwrc?fref=ts

[ThomasS]

No its a 36mm restrictor , but whatever its academic. 180kgs is a more telling factor anyhow.

Padden sets 12 new stage records out of the 14 he wins.

Lappi is behind Paddon after stage 2 by 29secs... Lappi should have been quicker from the outset , its an embarrassment for him and the MRF team however you look at it , its a hollow victory.

[leighton323]

No its a 36mm restrictor , but whatever its academic. 180kgs is a more telling factor anyhow.

Padden sets 12 new stage records out of the 14 he wins.

Lappi is behind Paddon after stage 2 by 29secs... Lappi should have been quicker from the outset , its an embarrassment for him and the MRF team however you look at it , its a hollow victory.

Why is it an embarrassment. You've made a positive into a negative. Shouldn't you be praising Paddon instead of bagging Lappi? New to NZ, new MRF tyres and new team. I think good experience for Lappi and isn't that's what he should be doing, learning? He is still young with much less experience.

[ThomasS]

I am praising Paddon and I am bagging Lappi. Paddon is the man obviously. I think your making excuses for Lappi.

Lappi is no stranger to a Skoda and has had factory support in the past, not only that he has had over 17 starts in S2000 cars. How many has Paddon had ? The Whangarai roads are similar to Finland or so Lappi reckons. New tyres' , yeah maybe but 29 sec after stage 2 and 3.40 minutes after 288 km's... come on. New team , well its a well funded new team , professional in fact . No excuses to be that slow ,sorry.

Lappi would have come to NZ knowing his only real competition would have been Paddon , even if he wasn't in the same "rally". He either has a competitive bone in his body or he doesn't.

[Mirek]

I am praising Paddon and I am bagging Lappi. Paddon is the man obviously. I think your making excuses for Lappi.

Lappi is no stranger to a Skoda and has had factory support in the past, not only that he has had over 17 starts in S2000 cars. How many has Paddon had ? The Whangarai roads are similar to Finland or so Lappi reckons. New tyres' , yeah maybe but 29 sec after stage 2 and 3.40 minutes after 288 km's... come on. New team , well its a well funded new team , professional in fact . No excuses to be that slow ,sorry.

Lappi would have come to NZ knowing his only real competition would have been Paddon , even if he wasn't in the same "rally". He either has a competitive bone in his body or he doesn't.

To enlighten You Lappi did only 4 gravel events abroad in his whole life including small national ones, out of those 17 events total most were short national ones. He has never had factory support in the past except last several events in Škoda. He has clearly given targets - to collect experience and that is what he is doing perfect in rallies where everything is new for him, be it the team, tyres, stages, competition. He won APRC event with no real rivals, that is sad from the point of championship quality but risking anything for some kind of prestige beating locals running in different competition would be quite stupid. Anyway Paddon has much more experience than Lappi no matter what You say. Of course kudos to Paddon for perfect performance but the history is not about one rally. In five years we will see who is where.

[ThomasS]

Your a pompous clever dick , perhaps you've had to much to drink. But yes thank you for enlightening me...

He has had 4 starts with Skoda Motorsport as a works contracted driver and 6 starts in a Skoda S2000 all together. Paddon has had 7.
Lappi has competed at least 8 times outside of his country including winning a major european rally , ERC Poland... But yes not as experienced as Paddon.

All that is irrelevant.

Perception is everything, all ready the press (irally) are making the comparison, even Paddon himself is making something out it.

Sure , no point in risking every thing for pride , but its another to make it into a ridiculously cynical sunday drive. The margin was huge , something even Paddon was surprised about. Lappi is clearly fast and talented but its an embarrassment for MRF and Lappi. Its a shame they made the trip to NZ for some marketing/PR bull**** scam... No sportsmanship in that.

[Mirek]

We can also ask why Paddon didn't enter same competition if he wanted Lappi to fight with him? Yes, I read about the reasons but than he shall not be so surprised. It was his choice to run in separate classification.

[Carlo]

Reason was simply dollars. Paddon needs the $$$$ to come up to Europe and if he had spent the money on the factory parts for his car rather than copying them then making them himself then he would not have sufficient funds available to buy his drive for Finland & Germany

We have seen what these two do on Paddons home patch, lets wait and see what happens in the Rally of Finland where it is Lappi's home patch and where Paddon will be on only his 2nd ice / snow rally.

I look forward to their battle.

[noel157]

Hope there's no ice/snow in NORF....

[noel157]

Reason was simply dollars. Paddon needs the $$$$ to come up to Europe and if he had spent the money on the factory parts for his car rather than copying them then making them himself then he would not have sufficient funds available to buy his drive for Finland & Germany

We have seen what these two do on Paddons home patch, lets wait and see what happens in the Rally of Finland where it is Lappi's home patch and where Paddon will be on only his 2nd ice / snow rally.

I look forward to their battle.

Jez, there's going to be ice and snow in NORF? ? :)

[ThomasS]

Yes dollars. Paddon doesn't have the same opportunities to great pot loads of cash that a young guy would have in Europe. He's getting by on much less resource and far superior talent.

It should have been a walk in the park for the S2000 cars to be ahead of the locals however you look at it. Far superior machinery and support. It wouldn't have taken much risk to be well ahead of a group N WRX but as it stands Mason was only 36 sec behind Lappi at the end of 288kms and well ahead of Gill , who has it happens has been here before.

Personally there should be some team pride at stake in this, its incumbent on a pro team to up hold some standards otherwise its some cynical corporate venture that everyone can see through.

Its PR disaster for MRF as far as I'm concerned.

[Mirek]

Yes dollars. Paddon doesn't have the same opportunities to great pot loads of cash that a young guy would have in Europe.

Sorry? You think Young drivers in Europe are drowning in money? Don't tell me You believe Your own words. Of course there are few with a good backing but Europe is 46 countries, 731 million people and tens of thousands of rally drivers. Only several of them will ever make it to the top league. 99% will never do 3 complete PWRC/SWRC seasons Paddon has done so far.


He's getting by on much less resource and far superior talent.

Come on...

I understand You are a big fan of Paddon, why not, but have some sense of reality. He is great driver, of course, but You act like all the whole world was plotting to prevent him being new Loeb.

[ThomasS]

Sorry? You think Young drivers in Europe are drowning in money? Don't tell me You believe Your own words. Of course there are few with a good backing but Europe is 46 countries, 731 million people and tens of thousands of rally drivers. Only several of them will ever make it to the top league. 99% will never do 3 complete PWRC/SWRC seasons Paddon has done so far.

Come on...

I understand You are a big fan of Paddon, why not, but have some sense of reality. He is great driver, of course, but You act like all the whole world was plotting to prevent him being new Loeb.

All the more impressive that he has survived to see his career go this far. He's tried harder than anybody for funding and is clearly more talented than most, if not all of his contemporaries. New Zealand is geographically and economically isolated from the heart of the rallying world (europe), real rally money and opportunities.

The reality is that a lot competent but mediocre talent is getting supported out of Europe.

Novikov , Neuville, Breen , Wiegand , Abbring to name a few. They are hardly lighting up the world of rallying...

[catty]

No its a 36mm restrictor , but whatever its academic. 180kgs is a more telling factor anyhow.


The restrictor size makes a huge difference.
That Evo has to have something near 400bhp, easily more than compensating for the 180kg extra weight

All the more impressive that he has survived to see his career go this far. He's tried harder than anybody for funding and is clearly more talented than most, if not all of his contemporaries. New Zealand is geographically and economically isolated from the heart of the rallying world (europe), real rally money and opportunities.

The reality is that a lot competent but mediocre talent is getting supported out of Europe.

Novikov , Neuville, Breen , Wiegand , Abbring to name a few. They are hardly lighting up the world of rallying...
Yes Paddon is quick but not as quick as any of the drivers you just named.
Funny post though.....

[Carlo]

With the exception of 2 stages, the first when a front wheel bearing collapsed and he lost just over 2 minutes and the second when his steering wheel came off in his hands and he lost 40+ seconds, Richard Mason was running times very close to those of Paddon and he too was comfortably ahead of Lappi.

[ThomasS]

The restrictor size makes a huge difference.
That Evo has to have something near 400bhp, easily more than compensating for the 180kg extra weight

Yes Paddon is quick but not as quick as any of the drivers you just named.
Funny post though.....


Bollocks, that's a stupid speculation. You and Enzo Ferrari would have gotten on well.

I think I'd rather have less power in Skoda S2000 than having the equivalent of two over weight Finnish rally potatoes in the back seat of my obsolete EVO 9 tank chassis...

I wasn't exactly comparing Paddon to those drivers, more illustrating that being selected isn't about ability its about being a good car salesman... , but since you bring it up.

Paddon was quicker than Breen, Weigand and Abbring last year. He won close to 74% of the swrc stages last year in an underfunded WRC effort.

As for Neuville and Novikov its impossible to say except that their performances to date are average to say the least. They just don't have the X factor to win.

[ThomasS]

Gill seemed overjoyed about his 2nd place...

[Munkvy]

I was at this event and the NZ class cars with the looser rules definitely have a fair bit more torque, this was evident from both acceleration and sheer distance they could get throwing stones launching. They were noticeably quicker in general.

Also, there is considerable weight reduction that to me looked like more than just R4 (I didn't believe carbon fibre vented bonnets were included in R4?). We also need to bear in mind these cars run on 85% Ethanol, which I believe generates more power than the FIA fuel for Group N cars would allow (although I am not 100% sure on this as I haven't been involved in Group N tuning, only E85 vs pump fuel)?

Anyway, cold hard facts don't lie when it comes to Paddon's pace:

SS6 Results (http://www.chrissport.co.nz/results/2013/whangarei/nzrc/ss6.htm)

The record for this stage in Class 2/3 was set by Hayden in his Skoda at 8:22 when this road was used for the WRC round in 2012 (the road has been used for quite a few years). Yet, somehow in an "R4" car, he managed to go through at 8:08 on a damp road in less than ideal conditions. Infact he was only 12 seconds off the record for a WRC car...

SS5 was also a substantial improvement on his previous Group N time, 12:12 vs 11:52 and WRC time of 11:39.

Somehow I suspect the car has some bearing on this result and explains some of the gap he pulled over Lappi... Also interesting to note that Mason was only 1 second behind in SS6 and 5.8 in SS5, in a similarly modified car...

Either way, absolute credit to Paddon. He won EVERY stage in the rally against some guys who are quite handy behind the wheel, clearly he has a lot of talent. Combined with the ability to control his pace and not fall off while still winning every stage, which as plenty before him have shown is no easy feat!

[ThomasS]

Paddon has stated he was carrying over a 180kgs deficit.

But I agree more torque doesn't mean much when the power to weight ratio is so disparate. You still need traction and it was very wet and muddy generally. Its apples and oranges when it come to R4 and S2000. Which one would you drive if you had the choice...

[sollitt]

Excerpt from news item published early last week .....


Major changes to the rules this year allow teams to do just about what they like with their cars. The major fallout is that very few cars will be eligible for FIA international points over the weekend.

"We're not in an FIA homologised car this weekend," Paddon said. "Although it is an R4 spec car, the same as the FIA allow, it's the same old story - money. The official R4 kit is $40,000 for all the parts with the right number stamped on them.

"We've made all our own stuff here for a lot less money and although the specs are the same we can't be classified as an official FIA car - and that's where the new rules fall down," he said.

It is easy to see why Paddon and his crew don't want to spend a huge amount of money on buying FIA accredited bits for their car when they're trying to get funding together to head back to Europe.

The good thing, though, is Paddon's car will for all intents and purposes be the same as the overseas visitors', so he and Kennard will be able to gauge their speed against the likes of Lappi.

Here's a link to the article. Motorsport: Teams priced out of FIA points - Motorsport - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motorsport/news/article.cfm?c_id=66&objectid=10883552)

[NZRallyTeam]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the feedback, but there seems to be a lot of confusion of specs of cars etc here in NZ at the moment which I would like to clear up.
Our car has the exact same modifications to it as a R4 kit, just that we made the parts ourselves. In fact the minimum weight of cars in the NZ championship is 1350 (rather than 1310 which is allowed by FIA rules). In Whangarei our car weighed 1380kg vs the Skodas at 1200kg. The only difference is that yes we do run a 36mm restrictor apposed to the 33mm restrictor.
Haven driven both this car and the Skoda – the Evo9 certainly has greater top speed which does help on fast roads, but it does take longer to get there. The handling, braking and general car balance of the Skoda is certainly far more superior.
Also be careful when comparing our Skoda times from Rally NZ last year, for two reasons. Those stages were only ran once during Rally NZ, where at Whangarei they were all repeated stages. Also at Rally NZ we were on a hard compound WRC control tyre, so hard to make direct comparisons. This years rally was wet, but the Whangarei roads actually create more grip when they are wet compared to dry.
Likewise hard to make direct comparisons between us and Lappi from the weekend, but he did a great job to win APRC, on what are challenging roads and challenging conditions. We hope to be able to battle closely with Lappi in Finland which will certainly be a challenge!
Hope this clears things up a little

[ThomasS]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the feedback, but there seems to be a lot of confusion of specs of cars etc here in NZ at the moment which I would like to clear up.
Our car has the exact same modifications to it as a R4 kit, just that we made the parts ourselves. In fact the minimum weight of cars in the NZ championship is 1350 (rather than 1310 which is allowed by FIA rules). In Whangarei our car weighed 1380kg vs the Skodas at 1200kg. The only difference is that yes we do run a 36mm restrictor apposed to the 33mm restrictor.
Haven driven both this car and the Skoda – the Evo9 certainly has greater top speed which does help on fast roads, but it does take longer to get there. The handling, braking and general car balance of the Skoda is certainly far more superior.
Also be careful when comparing our Skoda times from Rally NZ last year, for two reasons. Those stages were only ran once during Rally NZ, where at Whangarei they were all repeated stages. Also at Rally NZ we were on a hard compound WRC control tyre, so hard to make direct comparisons. This years rally was wet, but the Whangarei roads actually create more grip when they are wet compared to dry.
Likewise hard to make direct comparisons between us and Lappi from the weekend, but he did a great job to win APRC, on what are challenging roads and challenging conditions. We hope to be able to battle closely with Lappi in Finland which will certainly be a challenge!
Hope this clears things up a little

Well that's the end of that discussion !

I was quite enjoying my uninformed and wildly inaccurate rant.

You Kiwi's find it really hard to celebrate a success without diminishing it with modesty and humbleness, heh !

Anyhow fantastic drive over the weekend and we all hope to see you carry on to big and better things in the WRC.

Cheers Hayden.

[Hartusvuori]

Nice post from Hayden or whoever it was from the team. It cleared things up.

Definitely I would've expected Lappi to run closer to Paddon, but this has been discussed already. Difference in machinery, difference in (local) experience, even different races. It'll be extremely interesting to see how Lappi competes against Paddon and other top S2000 entries in Finland. It's true that it is his home rally, but it also must be remembered Paddon is no stranger to NORF either, having a class victory from here, was it 2011.

To sum it all up, instead of putting two drivers against each other, we should wish they both would be regular drivers in international rallies. That'd be best for all of us, the fans.

[donlorean]

It's quite useless to compare two drivers who compete under different regulations even they do it in same rally... I like both of them. Two year ago Hayden was really fast in NORF and I like his performance in there. Last year EPL did that same thing... EPL needs just lot of KM's in different surfaces. That's why he probably didn't push 110%. He learn his lesson in Monte Carlo. For EPL there is no point to push like hell...

I want to see those two excellent young gun's in same rally with same class car... And hopefully in WRC some day in the future...

[Mirek]

We also need to bear in mind these cars run on 85% Ethanol, which I believe generates more power than the FIA fuel for Group N cars would allow (although I am not 100% sure on this as I haven't been involved in Group N tuning, only E85 vs pump fuel)?

Had a chat with an engine engineer who prepared Impreza STI engine for E85. He told me that properly set engine with E85 has cca 40 Hp and 60 Nm more compared to 102 octane petrol (33 mm restrictor), but also 20-30% higher fuel consumption. E85 and 36 mm is without doubts something like 400 Hp.

[stefanvv]

It's interesting to compare the technology over time. The AUDI replica with 2.2 5cyl. of Hawkeswood also has 400 hp with 36mm restrictor. Looks like the restictor is doing it's job well.

[makinen_fan]

Very nice onboard by Hayden


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfZYKIBdAQ&feature=youtu.be

[Juha_Koo]

Very nice onboard by Hayden

Indeed, very nice onboard, good angles and maximum attack... "Bit of a bumb there..." :)

[Mirek]

Awesome! Kiwis have the best stages in the world (sorry Finns) :)

[Juha_Koo]

Little offtopic, but here's Grönholm's onboard from the same stage (atleast some identical sections) from 2004... Beautiful road :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aaOBQHHHFo

[OldF]

Jez, there's going to be ice and snow in NORF? ? :)

And polar bears also. ;)

[Carlo]

From Hayden Paddon on greyroots a popular NZ rallysport facebook page

I'm amazed by all the talk and story's of how our car is so light and so powerful....I wish. That's the problem with these new rules, no one knows what people are driving and now the general consensus is that the people who are fast is all because of the car. And to clear things up, our car is exactly as it was when it was Group N other than its 70kg lighter and 60hp more (just from restrictor, still standard engine and turbo). I don't think our sport needs to be promoting that you need to spend lots of money to go fast.

[ThomasS]

Well thats because people are either, deluded in thinking Paddon is not fast and are looking for anything to explain otherwise or suffer from parochial cultural cringe to explain away clear talent.

He's world class.

[liposh]

Paddon is really fast, he drive as fast as all good drivers with such car would drive. If you want to compare Paddon with somebody, you have to compare him with second man in NZRC field. (so what are you guys talking about for such a long time, hmmm?) Lappi is also world class, fast as hell and he did his best, but he drove absolutely another competition than Paddon. And he fulfill all the targets.

[ThomasS]

Targets shmargets.

Tell Ogier its about targets whens competes against Loeb, it still hurts even after pretending to act rational about it.

I'm bored to death about talk of "professional driver development", its like nobody actually has the desire to win. Take our current crop of top WRC drivers, talk about mediocrity. Everybody seems to talk about "just finishing the rally" , "making it on the podium" or "gaining experience".
This years WRC has turned into a tedious procession for drivers who don't have the talent to win because team managers don't pick winners any more, they pick car salesmen or people who pay the bills.

Lappi did his best ( well done...) but he was slower than the man with the obsolete machinery. However you look at it, Paddon wasted his ass.

[Mirek]

Targets shmargets.

Tell Ogier its about targets whens competes against Loeb, it still hurts even after pretending to act rational about it.

I'm bored to death about talk of "professional driver development", its like nobody actually has the desire to win. Take our current crop of top WRC drivers, talk about mediocrity. Everybody seems to talk about "just finishing the rally" , "making it on the podium" or "gaining experience".
This years WRC has turned into a tedious procession for drivers who don't have the talent to win because team managers don't pick winners any more, they pick car salesmen or people who pay the bills.

Lappi did his best ( well done...) but he was slower than the man with the obsolete machinery. However you look at it, Paddon wasted his ass.

Sorry, but it's quite tiresome to read still the same stuff of You. You can use absolutely same arguments for last year's season of Hayden. He was fastest in SWRC but he was never faster than Ogier and even Mikkelsen. In Your logic he was the bad looser. Please have a bit of rational approach. Hayden is good, yet hardly close to the very top level of Ogier or Loeb. Lappi is good, yet totally unexperienced. Things don't go so fast. Even Ogier and Loeb had to take some time to learn.

[ThomasS]

Yet you feel compelled to reply.

Jeez can't someone be a fan round here... since when is being sports fan been about being rational !!?

Its clear most of you are a bunch of pedant old rally farts. Loosen up !

I'm with the underdog and if you can't handle a bit of sledging **** off to some other forum.

[Mirek]

Do You really think You help Hayden to be recognized by other people using personal insults? OK, as You wish, welcome to my ignore list.

[focus206]

Jeez can't someone be a fan round here... since when is being sports fan been about being rational !!?

Well, luckily there is more than one type of fan, and not everyone thinks that bashing down someone's opponents is part of being his fan... I would expect those words by a 14 years-old football fan, but hey...

[ThomasS]

Well I'll certainly loose sleep over that.

This thread would have been dead and buried if I hadn't played devils advocate...stop being so sensitive.

But to get back to the point, The Rally Whangarai APRC presence was a farce. One manufacture turned up in a pathetic field of 10 cars to collect some "hard" earned points and **** off again.

Without another manufacturer in the APRC Lappi's inevitable title win will be a farcical shame.

The APRC was a sideshow. The only thing that vaguely got me interested about the APRC was that Paddon turned up to show case his speed against Lappi. He's done that to keep people fresh in their minds as he struggles to raise money to get back in the WRC-2 by running glorified cake stalls , sausage sizzles and offer joy rides in his car.

He clearly couldn't have afforded to rebuild his destroyed old EVO with FIA approved parts , and therefore be classified for the APRC, because FIA have made it prohibitively expensive. The requirement for FIA stamped components is a rort that's killing NZers chances to compete internationally in R4 specs. ( there is a a lot of investment tied up in their older group N cars).

And to respond to assertion he isn't as fast as Ogier or Mikkelsen(like an adult...).

Well maybe, but having the full weight of a VW factory effort behind you is a statement to the contrary. To date Paddon has had 7 starts in a Skoda with little or no testing or car development. He ran on a shoe string budget without the benefits of things like gravel crews , close support from tyre manufacturers or personals chefs , massage therapists , rally coach's , weather experts , a VW army at his disposal and all the other things that define a factory effort. It makes his results all the more impressive.

During the first half of the season Paddon was forced to run a car from some obscure spanish outfit who admitted they had no experience with the skoda and had no idea how to make it go fast.

BRR made a difference but he still had little money for testing or refinement. BRR's clearly can't be compared with VW...

Despite his rag tag budget , limited time in the car and little development time (and I'm forced to mention it again, because its not sinking in) he won 74% of the stages he competed in.

I just don't think most of you could abide the idea that a southern hemisphere driver has what it takes to better than most in europe. On the face of it your right. But its based on historical prejudice and denial.

[makinen_fan]

Another amazing onboard by Hayden!


http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151686105529882

[ThomasS]

Magic .

Haydon looked very good. I saw him on a tricky fast downhill with little or no camber and big drop offs to the left. He was fast, totally committed and still able to do a couple of subtle corrections mid corner.

[Juha_Koo]

Nice onboard from Skoda, Lappi/Ferm SS2.

A lot of note corrections, rather rare to hear this much with Finnish drivers... But very good, clear and simple (as small amount of seperate words as possible) pacenote system. Big development from e.g. last year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7R62HcZ0cE

[EightGear]

wait and see what happens in the Rally of Finland where it is Lappi's home patch and where Paddon will be on only his 2nd ice / snow rally.

Wait, what?

[sollitt]

Sorry, but it's quite tiresome to read still the same stuff of You. You can use absolutely same arguments for last year's season of Hayden. He was fastest in SWRC but he was never faster than Ogier and even Mikkelsen. In Your logic he was the bad looser. Please have a bit of rational approach. Hayden is good, yet hardly close to the very top level of Ogier or Loeb. Lappi is good, yet totally unexperienced. Things don't go so fast. Even Ogier and Loeb had to take some time to learn.Actually Mirek, whilst I generally agree with most of what you write, you're a little wide of the mark here. Paddon was faster than Ogier & Mikkelsen on a number of stages last year, albeit a small number. What was impressive was that he was generally on a very close pace despite, as others have mentioned, lesser resources, less seat time, a different spec car, and the prospect that any major off could spell the end to his season.
Your comment suggesting Paddon is hardly close to Ogier or Loeb is also wayward. Until you sit the drivers in the same cars over the same terrain you cannot make such a claim so emphatically. What I can tell you, from publicly available information, is that were Paddon debuting as a WRC driver tomorrow his credentials on debut would surpass those of both Loeb & Ogier at the same time in their careers.
Loeb & Ogier are winners. Paddon has proven himself to be a winner at every level he's contested. Few others have shown this ability. I agree with your comments regarding Lappi & Paddon being in different contests (as were Paddon & Ogier last year) however those with the winning gene are not usually content to watch the opposition race off without a fight.
Nevertheless, snow and ice aside, Carlo is correct. Finland is Lappi's playground and he'll be hard to beat there.
However it pans out, it's going to be an exciting couple of months head, starting with Ypres.

[ThomasS]

I think you can but that down to the "Anorak" syndrome amongst certain long term posters.

You lose perspective... :p

[Mirek]

Actually Mirek, whilst I generally agree with most of what you write, you're a little wide of the mark here. Paddon was faster than Ogier & Mikkelsen on a number of stages last year, albeit a small number. What was impressive was that he was generally on a very close pace despite, as others have mentioned, lesser resources, less seat time, a different spec car, and the prospect that any major off could spell the end to his season.
Your comment suggesting Paddon is hardly close to Ogier or Loeb is also wayward. Until you sit the drivers in the same cars over the same terrain you cannot make such a claim so emphatically. What I can tell you, from publicly available information, is that were Paddon debuting as a WRC driver tomorrow his credentials on debut would surpass those of both Loeb & Ogier at the same time in their careers.
Loeb & Ogier are winners. Paddon has proven himself to be a winner at every level he's contested. Few others have shown this ability. I agree with your comments regarding Lappi & Paddon being in different contests (as were Paddon & Ogier last year) however those with the winning gene are not usually content to watch the opposition race off without a fight.
Nevertheless, snow and ice aside, Carlo is correct. Finland is Lappi's playground and he'll be hard to beat there.
However it pans out, it's going to be an exciting couple of months head, starting with Ypres.

I think that You missed the point. I applied his own logic on his hero, nothing else.

[sollitt]

No, got that OK. But in making your point you erred factually and I have corrected those errors. That is all.

Perhaps zealous fans become tiresome in their posts because they themselves grow tired of repeated belligerent dismissiveness of their heroes by some people who hold themselves to be expert but in fact lack either the knowledge or the willingness to be objective.

[HarriK]

APRC RALLYE DE NOUVELLE CALEDONIE is on it's way.

New Caledonia Rally Championship - Official Website (http://www.rallye-nc.net/v3/common/results/results_int13.php?ral_id=39)

EP Lappi retired at ss4.

[bluuford]

APRC RALLYE DE NOUVELLE CALEDONIE is on it's way.

New Caledonia Rally Championship - Official Website (http://www.rallye-nc.net/v3/common/results/results_int13.php?ral_id=39)

EP Lappi retired at ss4.

Went off on the left hander and took wheel off:
https://twitter.com/EsapekkaLappi/status/345735899767767040/photo/1

[Juha_Koo]

Difficult rally for them... Ferm was having a hard stomach ache during the rally.

[dimviii]

nice photo from Gill
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BM20YfLCMAEpK5i.jpg:large

[Juha_Koo]

Nice onboard Gill/McNeall, New Caledonia SS4!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-DuhS1Jznk

[Co-FIN]

What is this Gill´s history? He seems like a decent driver, but never heard of him before this years APRC.. Has he driven in europe or only in asia? Good onboard..

[Mirek]

He has been driving APRC for several years, always fighting for podiums.

[Rally Hokkaido]

He has been driving APRC for several years, always fighting for podiums.

He also did some PWRC rounds a few years ago. He has been getting quicker and crashing less since moving to a S2000 machine.

[makinen_fan]

I saw Gill first time in Cyprus Rally 2009 and I was impressed by his spectacular driving style. He was not that quick as fas as I remember back then.

[vino_93]

Last year he did really good job against Atkinson. He crashed too many times, but in term of speed, he caused him a lot of problem !

[fredfush]

Rubbish, he led a number of events but was let down by car problems including a broken battery cable in Australia and an engine failure (after 100km) in China. He won more stages than any other driver in the APRC.

[Juha_Koo]

Onboard Lappi/Ferm Queensland SS14 with few moments. Quite stupid first part of the stage, banging the limiter for many kilometres...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk3Xjx_qeJI

[darkstar]

at around 1:30 is a massive moment!

[stefanvv]

Onboard Lappi/Ferm Queensland SS14 with few moments. Quite stupid first part of the stage, banging the limiter for many kilometres...

Yeah, why didn't they just hit the highway? It would be much more fun overtaking the cars there :D

[Rally Hokkaido]

A local article about Guarav. I believe he will have his chance at WRC Rally Australia this year to see how he ranks against WRC2 regulars.

‘WRC is my ultimate goal’ (http://www.sportstaronnet.com/stories/20130810507406200.htm)

[Zeakiwi]

The Toyota Vitz leads in Malaysia after problems for Gill, Lappi and Takale.
APRC.TV - Asia Pacific Rally Championship Television Production News (http://aprc.tv/newsPage.php?Malaysian-Rally-catches-out-drivers-694)

[Rally Hokkaido]

Having just watched Lappi live for the first time at Malaysian Rally, I have to agree with your comments, Juha_Koo. For sure he has superb reflexes and generally good car control, but when I saw him on a couple of stages before the engine broke, IMHO he was overdriving the car including hitting the limiter a bit too often.

Of course, the weather, very technical stages and muddy conditions of Malaysia were more difficult for a first timer, but he was being outdriven by teammate Guarav Gill until a pacenote mistake put his Skoda in to a bank - not a good Day 1 for Team MRF Skoda who have no real opposition in APRC, this year. Anyway, the radiator was replaced overnight and Gill restarted to gain maximum Day 2 points. He now leads APRC by 1 point from Lappi.



Onboard Lappi/Ferm Queensland SS14 with few moments. Quite stupid first part of the stage, banging the limiter for many kilometres...

[Rally Hokkaido]

Here's an excellent video on the Malaysian round: http://vimeo.com/74035925
:eek: The back of my head makes a cameo appearance as I help
get the K45 Suzuki Swift in to overnight parc ferme after its 52 min gearbox change!

[Zeakiwi]

Gill won in Japan.
http://www.aprc.tv/newsPage.php?Gill-cl ... -title-704 (http://www.aprc.tv/newsPage.php?Gill-closes-in-on-APRC-title-704)

[kober]

Early APRC title drama as Gill crashes in China shakedown (http://www.maxrally.com/2013/10/31/early-aprc-title-drama-as-gill-crashes-in-china-shakedown)

[kober]

China Rally SS12 - Gill/Macneal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq5D9P_Vxto)

[Mirek]

Interesting that it's largely asphalt stage, there are no spectators and that all straight ends of railguards are covered by sandbags.

[makinen_fan]

Interesting that it's largely asphalt stage, there are no spectators and that all straight ends of railguards are covered by sandbags.

Was this an FIA qualifier for the WRC if anyone knows? Or has FIA abandoned the idea to have China in WRC?