2013 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread

[CNR]

Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/4/14460.html)
Red Bull’s Mark Webber will drop three places on the grid for next weekend’s 2013 Formula 1 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix after stewards penalised him for his collision with Toro Rosso’s Jean-Eric Vergne in Sunday’s Shanghai race. And Sauber’s Esteban Gutierrez will be demoted five grid places at Sakhir for his crash with Force India’s Adrian Sutil.

[steveaki13]

Damn. I was beaten to opening the next race thread. :p

Anyway I will still Preview it a bit. Hope no one minds.

As posted above we have the two grid penalties for Mark Webber and Esteban Gutierrez, while all drivers investigated for DRS use under yellow flags were cleared.

Drivers Championship after 3 Rounds

Sebastian Vettel - 52 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Kimi Raikkonen - 49 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Fernando Alonso - 43 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Lewis Hamilton - 40 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Felipe Massa - 30 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Mark Webber - 26 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Nico Rosberg - 12 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Jenson Button - 12 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Romain Grosjean - 11pts[/*:m:37815746]
Paul di Resta - 8 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Adrian Sutil - 6 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Daniel Ricciardo - 6 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Nico Hulkenberg - 5 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Sergio Perez - 2 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Jean Eric Vergne - 1 pt[/*:m:37815746]

Constructors Championship after 3 Rounds



Red Bull - 78 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Ferrari - 73 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Lotus - 60 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Mercedes - 52 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Force India - 14 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Mclaren - 14 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Toro Rosso - 7 pts[/*:m:37815746]
Sauber - 5 pts[/*:m:37815746]

2013 Bahrain Grand Prix, Bahrain International Circuit.

19th-22nd April

57 Laps

Previous Winners
2004: Michael Schumacher
2005: Fernando Alonso
2006: Fernando Alonso
2007: Felipe Massa
2008: Felipe Massa
2009: Jenson Button
2010: Fernando Alonso
2011: Cancelled
2012: Sebastian Vettel


Most Wins
Fernando Alonso - 3 wins
Felipe Massa - 2 wins
Michael Schumacher - 1 win
Jenson Button - 1 win
Sebastian Vettel -1 win

*Who would bet against Alonso making it 4 wins.

Ferrari - 4 wins
Renault - 2 wins
Brawn - 1 win
Red Bull - 1 win


So there we go. Along with the usual distasteful politics that go with the Bahrain GP, it is also never a classic really. So we all wait to see what happens.

I wont be around unfortunately to watch it live though. I am off to Brands for some Truck Racing :cool:

[Whyzars]

Red Bull’s Mark Webber will drop three places on the grid for next weekend’s 2013 Formula 1 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix after stewards penalised him for his collision with Toro Rosso’s Jean-Eric Vergne in Sunday’s Shanghai race. And Sauber’s Esteban Gutierrez will be demoted five grid places at Sakhir for his crash with Force India’s Adrian Sutil.

Those penalties have got me a bit mystified.

If they aren't judged to be racing incidents then why the different penalty? Severity seems the obvious answer but Webber's hit on Vergne looked to be worse from a "could've been avoided" perspective.

Actually, I could be wrong but, I don't remember a 3 place penalty ever being handed down before.

[Ranger]

Bahraini police clash with Formula One protesters ? RT News (http://rt.com/news/bahrain-formula-one-protests-776/)
http://rt.com/files/news/1e/b5/00/00/bahrain-formula-one-protests.si.jpg

Bahraini police fired tear gas and sound bombs during clashes with demonstrators Friday who were gathered outside the capital Manama to protest the Formula One Grand Prix, which is being held in the country later this month.

The demonstrations began on Thursday night in the village of Kahmis, close to Manama; Human Rights Watch reported that pro-democracy activists were being rounded up by police.

The protesters chanted “Your race is a crime,” “Down with Hamad” in reference to the country’s king, and “The people want the fall of the regime,” the rallying cry of the Arab Spring, which rocked the region in 2011.

[henners88]

Heikki is back as reserve driver for Caterham this weekend driving in FP1.


Heikki Kovalainen is to return to Formula 1 action at the Bahrain Grand Prix in a testing role for Caterham.


Heikki Kovalainen rejoins Caterham as reserve driver - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106819)

Nice to see him back and makes you wonder if he'll be offered a race seat by mid season? Seems mad to me having two rookies struggling when they have a guy with experience watching from the wings.

[steveaki13]

A bit strange for Heikki, they ditch him and he now feels like he should go and help them. Not sure I would.

[truefan72]

A bit strange for Heikki, they ditch him and he now feels like he should go and help them. Not sure I would.

TBH

I don't get it
although I think they made a mistake with firing both drivers
Petrov definitely deserved his seat and heikke seems to be better than these two guys now.
especially GeidoVdG.

but this move is an odd one for sure
still not high on Heikke though
Petrov probably had enough pride not to go back to them

[Koz]

Not too surprising. He has been seen around Caterham paddock several times this year...

I assume he just wants to be seen as much as possible. If an opportunity presents itself for a race, why not?

[truefan72]

Not too surprising. He has been seen around Caterham paddock several times this year...

I assume he just wants to be seen as much as possible. If an opportunity presents itself for a race, why not?

well several F1 outlets are stating that this is a real move to potentially replace one of the drivers. with a serous assessment coming in FP1 on Friday to see how he fairs against the current drivers.

[Tazio]

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/552869_465771400161423_725681791_n.png

+

Two DRS zones for Bahrain Grand Prix


Two DRS zones will be in place at this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix for the first time in its history, with governing body the FIA choosing to add to the pit-straight area.
This (two DRS zones) will play to Ferrari's strength IMHO

Edit: I understand that they have changed compound choices to hard and medium. This may play into RB or Mercedes strength. I better change my currently first place pickems :crazy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22167807

[wedge]

Medium and Hard tyres for Bahrain. Originally they were going to use Softs and Hards.

[kfzmeister]

TBH

I don't get it
although I think they made a mistake with firing both drivers
Petrov definitely deserved his seat and heikke seems to be better than these two guys now.
especially GeidoVdG.

but this move is an odd one for sure
still not high on Heikke though
Petrov probably had enough pride not to go back to them

He was demoted to Reserve driver, which he did not want. Apparently, it is the closest way for him to stay in F1.
I have read that his position is that of technical/ developmental input, only.

[jens]

TBH

I don't get it
although I think they made a mistake with firing both drivers
Petrov definitely deserved his seat and heikke seems to be better than these two guys now.
especially GeidoVdG.

but this move is an odd one for sure
still not high on Heikke though
Petrov probably had enough pride not to go back to them

If Caterham badly needed money, then they can't have made a mistake by firing drivers - they needed to survive. I think everyone - including the team - knew that someone like van der Garde would not be able to match Kovalainen. Same with Sauber and their decision to take Gutiérrez over Kobayashi. Certainly Kamui was supposed to be more experienced and consistent, but Sauber couldn't let Telmex sponsorship go.

For Heikki this move is purely practical - if you want to resurrect your career, you have to use every opportunity you possibly can to put yourself on the picture again. Even if it means going back to a team, which let you go and has the worst car on the grid. If there is no alternative, then what are you going to do? Have to use the opportunity.

However, I am pondering about the decision of Caterham. Obviously they are missing the input of an experienced and fast driver and I guess the sponsorship deals with both Pic and van der Garde are flexible enough to enable them losing free practice time. But I am not sure they can afford putting Kovalainen into the race seat unless one of their drivers runs out of money.

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhFwqkl5IUE

[Tazio]

Full version:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83F3rE8YZAw

[zako85]

Petrov probably had enough pride not to go back to them

Who knows what happened to him, but this could be a possibility. I think there might have been a fallout between Petrov and his manager, Kosachenko. Shortly after losing his seat, she was hired by the Caterham team. A bit later, Petrov cut his ties with her.

[Koz]

I do wonder what Gonzales is doing in that car. Paying a few million for a practics session?
Instead of Bianchi? Absurd.


well several F1 outlets are stating that this is a real move to potentially replace one of the drivers. with a serous assessment coming in FP1 on Friday to see how he fairs against the current drivers.

But lets not forget Sauber might just have an opening too.

[andyone]

Ferrari are looking strong. lets wait for practice 2..

[truefan72]

After FP1 and FP2:

Renault look poised for the win
Red Bull Ominous
Ferrari Dangerous

Mrcedes, sadly, worrisome

[truefan72]

my prediction for the race

Kimi
Webber
Alonso
Vettel
Rosberg
Hamilton
Massa
Grosjean
Sutil
Hulkenberg

in that order

[AndyL]

Force India are looking very strong as well, with DiResta 5th in both sessions so far.

[andyone]

mercedes are up to somthing.. i have noticed that they are trying somthing for the race. coz winning in practice is nothing really. you wait and see on qualifying..

[keysersoze]

He was demoted to Reserve driver, which he did not want. Apparently, it is the closest way for him to stay in F1.
I have read that his position is that of technical/ developmental input, only.

After 20 laps HK was a half-second behind Pic. I wonder what tires he used. I imagine they would want him to use both sets so that he could properly evaluate the car's handling.

[kfzmeister]

Alonso or Kimi.

[Tazio]

Alonso or Kimi.

Zo!

[webberf1]

Yeah judging by the China dominance, the practice pace and his epic form so far this year, it'd be tough to bet against Alonso.

[Koz]

Gutierrez will start at the back of the grid?

[longisland]

Heikki's Friday work paid off. The Catherams are finally ahead of Marussias. Alonso may have shown his hand too soon.

[truefan72]

so what the heck is lotus doing with Grosjean?

its a very poor strategy
almost like they don't care about his side of the garage

[truefan72]

its is really a very sad situation for grosjean
tough to compete when your own team compromises you

[dj_bytedisaster]

TBH

I don't get it
although I think they made a mistake with firing both drivers
Petrov definitely deserved his seat and heikke seems to be better than these two guys now.
especially GeidoVdG.

but this move is an odd one for sure
still not high on Heikke though
Petrov probably had enough pride not to go back to them

I would think that he tries to stay current on this years comedy tires. If he should start to beat the other two, it could well be his way back into the cockpit. Still better than sitting on the sidelines completely.

[pino]

Just got home truefan, what lotus did ?

[Koz]

Just got home truefan, what lotus did ?

Didn't run him.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Massa on hards :eek:

[pino]

Massa on hard ? :s

[dj_bytedisaster]

Wow, Rosberg, what a lap!! :burnout:

Sutil and DiResta almost identical times :eek:

[Koz]

Massa on hard ? :s

And it works brilliantly!

[pino]

Congrats to Nico :up:

[Rollo]

First time that Mercedes has gone back to back pole positions in qualifying since the Italian GP, Sep 1955.

[truefan72]

congrats Rosberg
good result for mercedes
Hamilton will start 9th in damage control
we will see what he can do from there
it was cooler today, hopefully the same tomorrow

[dj_bytedisaster]

:rotflmao: Lauda just on German TV: "Shame on me!"

He had predicted before that Merc was too slow this weekend :blackeye:

[dj_bytedisaster]

First time that Mercedes has gone back to back pole positions in qualifying since the Italian GP, Sep 1955.

And Nico last year in China doesn't count? :confused:

[AndyL]

Does anyone understand the point of McLaren going out and then not setting a time? They were last out so would not have started ahead of anyone else who did the same thing.

[truefan72]

Does anyone understand the point of McLaren going out and then not setting a time? They were last out so would not have started ahead of anyone else who did the same thing.

agrees, didn't make much sense

[webberf1]

Nice one Nico. Alonso aborted the last flying lap... Does that mean he'll be starting on the hard compound?

[truefan72]

I think sky sports have it wrong in their provisional
Webber drops 5 places as does hamilton so it should be
8. button
9. Hamilton
10. Webber

as Hamilton's penalty applies last

correction:
so is it a 2 place grid drop only for Webber?

[Rollo]

And Nico last year in China doesn't count? :confused:

No.

Rd. 2 Malaysia - Hamilton (McLaren)
Rd. 3 China - Rosberg (Mercedes)
Rd. 4 Bahrain - Vettel (Red Bull)

As far as I'm aware, McLaren and Red Bull aren't Mercedes. Unless... er... what now?

[AndyL]

And Nico last year in China doesn't count? :confused:

Wasn't back to back with anything was it! It was preceded by a McLaren pole and followed by a Red Bull one.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Does anyone understand the point of McLaren going out and then not setting a time? They were last out so would not have started ahead of anyone else who did the same thing.

By not setting a time they have free tire choice. I think they felt that much more than 9th or 10th wouldn't be possible anyways and all others had set a time.

[truefan72]

Nice one Nico. Alonso aborted the last flying lap... Does that mean he'll be starting on the hard compound?

nope

worse yet, he will start on the used softs he set his first Q3 time on

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think sky sports have it wrong in their provisional
Webber drops 5 places as does hamilton so it should be
8. button
9. Hamilton
10. Webber

as Hamilton's penalty applies last

Mark only got a 3 pos demotion and gains one because of ham if I calculated right.

[AndyL]

I think sky sports have it wrong in their provisional
Webber drops 5 places as does hamilton so it should be
8. button
9. Hamilton
10. Webber

as Hamilton's penalty applies last

Webber only has a 3 place penalty though doesn't he?

[longisland]

Great Q3 for the 2 FIs. Hopefully, their race pace will be as good as their qualifying. I suspect tire degradation will be far less than Malaysia since Pirelli has gone conservative. The first pitstop may be on lap 16 to 17 for mediums and Massa may stretch as far as 25 laps.

[AndyL]

nope

worse yet, he will start on the used softs he set his first Q3 time on

Were they definitely used? He only did 4 runs in total, the first one being on hard tyres in Q1 I think, so it's possible both runs in Q3 were on new tyres.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Were they definitely used? He only did 4 runs in total, the first one being on hard tyres in Q1 I think, so it's possible both runs in Q3 were on new tyres.

Most of them do their first run in Q3 on used tires to save a fresh set for the race.

[Knock-on]

Great to see PdR is back on the pace. Should be an interesting start and look out for Lewis coming through the field.

[dj_bytedisaster]

We shouldn't forget Felipe. 6th on hard tires is mucking fagic. Due to HAM and WEB's penalties now 4th - that's strategy gold. Too bad he's not allowed to win :(

[webberf1]

Actually theres very little pace difference between the hard and medium so 6th place isnt all that mega. And its not that Massa wont be allowed to racs for the win, its just that if the first 3 races are any indication, his overall race pace will disappoint.

[pino]

Too bad he's not allowed to win :(

How you know that ?

[dj_bytedisaster]

How you know that ?

He's racing for Ferrari and since 1996 with the exception of 2008 only one driver is allowed to win. If Fernando conks out, maybe, but else, he won't. Just remember Germany 2010.

[webberf1]

If massa wants to win he should start by doing something he hasn't done for the last two years: being quick.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If massa wants to win he should start by doing something he hasn't done for the last two years: being quick.

Since Austin last year, Alonso has outqualified him only twice and one (today) doesn't count as they weren't on equal tires. I'd say that's pretty bloody quick. He was way better than Fernando at Austin, sacrificed at Brazil and several times screwed over by strategy this year. The only time he's been back to his lacklustre self of last year's start was Malaysia. This was his big chance, but he blew it by being mediocre, but for most parts of this season he's been on equal footing with Fernando, which is why I think - even if Fernando should fail to win the WDC (which I doubt) - Ferrari surely will blast RBR in the constructors championship.

[AndyL]

Actually theres very little pace difference between the hard and medium so 6th place isnt all that mega. And its not that Massa wont be allowed to racs for the win, its just that if the first 3 races are any indication, his overall race pace will disappoint.

Half a second the commentators are saying, so Massa being 0.54 behind Alonso's pretty decent.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Half a second the commentators are saying, so Massa being 0.54 behind Alonso's pretty decent.

Not quite. For Ferrari the difference was only .200 sec in free practice, The tire difference is the bigger the bigger the tire problems are for the specific cars, which is why the difference is relatively modest for Ferrari and Lotus and quite stark for "problem bears" like Merc and RB.
Still, qualifying 6th on the hard compound is a brilliant performance.

[pino]

dj, when you race for Ferrari, you decide your destiny and career...not the Team. Massa is allowed to win but in order to do that he has to beat Alonso, that's something he hasn't done in the past two years...

[dj_bytedisaster]

dj, when you race for Ferrari, you decide your destiny and career...not the Team. Massa is allowed to win but in order to do that he has to beat Alonso, that's something he hasn't done in the past two years...

What did you take to believe that?
He was faster in Germany 2010 and Austin 2012, but still wasn't allowed to finish ahead of Fernando. Austin last year is understandable, as the title was at stake, but it wasn't in 2010. That was what broke his will and it took him until 2012 to recover. 2011 doesn't count as he was usually nerfed into the armco by Lewis anyways.
Rubens was faster than Michael on so many occasions, like in Spielberg 2002. Guess who won anyways. So much for the team not deciding your destiny. Ferrari have always blatantly preferred one driver over the other for almost two decades and they never made a secret of it.

[webberf1]

Cant quote on my mobile but lol @ dj-byte saying Massa has been level with Alonso. Such breathtaking levels of denial... ITS OVER 9000!!! :P
You gave me my laugh for the day. thanks bud

[Ranger]

I think sky sports have it wrong in their provisional
Webber drops 5 places as does hamilton so it should be
8. button
9. Hamilton
10. Webber

as Hamilton's penalty applies last

correction:
so is it a 2 place grid drop only for Webber?

If there aren't any more penalties, the starting grid will be:

1. Rosberg
2. Vettel
3. Alonso
4. Massa
5. di Resta
6. Sutil
7. Webber (+3)
8. Raikkonen
9. Hamilton (+5)
10. Button

Great lap from Rosberg. Will be interesting to see what Massa does starting on the hard tyres from 4th.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Cant quote on my mobile but lol @ dj-byte saying Massa has been level with Alonso. Such breathtaking levels of denial... ITS OVER 9000!!! :P
You gave me my laugh for the day. thanks bud

Well he outqualified Fernando 4 times in a row from Austin to Malaysia. doesn't sound like OVER to me...

[webberf1]

Thats cute and all, but come back to me when Massa shows he can still consistently cut it with the big boys in the race. I dont call finishing China 2 secs ahead of a Toro Rosso on the exact same strategy convincing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Thats cute and all, but come back to me when Massa shows he can still consistently cut it with the big boys in the race. I dont call finishing China 2 secs ahead of a Toro Rosso on the exact same strategy convincing.

If your team mate always gets the better pitstop timing, you are disadvantaged by default. The race that convinced me was Austin last year. Massa had outqualified Alonso and was relegated five positions due to his team's grid manipulation. By the end of the race he had caught Alonso and had to be told to stay behind and finished right on Alonso's tail. How much more convincing do you need it?

But this is going off-topic. We should return to the topic at hand - the GP this weekend.

[pino]

dj, let me remind you that Massa performances in the last two years have been so poor that Ferrari for months had considered to replace him. Fortunately so far he's done a good job, yet he's behind Alonso on points, and it's up to him to change that. He needs to be faster than Alonso both in practice, pole and race. All the rest is pure fantasy...

[dj_bytedisaster]

dj, let me remind you that Massa performances in the last two years have been so poor that Ferrari for months had considered to replace him. Fortunately so far he's done a good job, yet he's behind Alonso on points, and it's up to him to change that. He needs to be faster than Alonso both in practice, pole and race. All the rest is pure fantasy...

Could you split the Massa discussion into a separate thread to keep this one clean?
Anyways - Massa was faster in training and quali often enough in the last races, yet he won't be allowed to finish ahead of Fernando. That's how Ferrari has always worked. They didn't hire Alonso as a potential #2. The moment he arrived it was clear, who would finish ahead.

[webberf1]

Lol WHY do you need to keep making excuses for Massa? You're hilarious. He's getting consistently whooped by a far superior teammate - deal with it. Pitting 1 lap after your teammate is NOT an excuse for finishing 40 seconds down. And whoopdeedoo that he managed to match Alonso in one race.

[webberf1]

Yes. End the Massa discussion now. This is supposed to be a race thread, not a comedy thread.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Lol WHY do you need to keep making excuses for Massa? You're hilarious. He's getting consistently whooped by a far superior teammate - deal with it. Pitting 1 lap after your teammate is NOT an excuse for finishing 40 seconds down. And whoopdeedoo that he managed to match Alonso in one race.

Well, if your username is any indication, you're the last one to talk :D

[webberf1]

if it were, then yes. fortunately though I prefer to focus on whats happening on track: in this case Alonso being the best to watch.

[pino]

Sorry but cannot split threads as I am using my iPhone at the moment, so lets just stick to topic :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

if it were, then yes. fortunately though I prefer to focus on whats happening on track: in this case Alonso being the best to watch.

I think we found something to agree upon. He's a bloody joy to watch now that he has a car to match his talent :D

[Knock-on]

Since Austin last year, Alonso has outqualified him only twice and one (today) doesn't count as they weren't on equal tires.

Since Austin? Pretty selective with your figures there buddy.

If we take last year as a whole, Fernando outqualified Massa 19:1 if we look at where they qualified and ignore the bogus gearbox demotion otherwise it would be a false 20:0.

If we factor in average qualifying place, again by adjusting Massa 5 less and adding 1 on to Alonso just to make it fair, we find that Felipe managed an average 9.6 slot while Alonso was a 6.15 so nearly 4 places between them in equal cars.

Massa has done better this year winning the qualifying battle 2:1 but one swallow does not a summer make. Lets see how it pans out shall we.

He's a nice guy but the butt monkey in the team because Fred is the faster driver. Ferrari is the very best he can get and he knows it. If he was quicker than Fred, he would peddle his wares elsewhere and team bosses would be falling over themselves to sign him.

BTW, the reason he went on Hards today was because he admitted he was struggleing for pace and knew Webber and Hamilton were going to be demoted so it was a low risk strategy. Still a reasonable time so well done to him.

[faster69]

i was wondering how ferrari were going to deal with the potential threat of massa out-qualifying the spokesman for santander.

so let me get this straight. in melbourne they killed massa by giving alonso the undercut despite massa being the leading driver, in china massa is on alonso's tail so they make him go around an extra lap on trashed tyres rather than pit them back to back, then they feed him hard tyres for qualifying in bahrain.

solid lap by massa to be only half a second behind alonso on hard tyres. vettel whips webber by half a second on the same tyres, rosberg whips hamilton for 0.4 second on the same tyres.

you guys have been busy trying to tell me that alonso is best on the grid because he doesn't make mistakes. he made TWO big mistakes on that final qualifying run!!! the pressure is on and alonso didn't deliver despite having the quickest car.

[donKey jote]

one swallow does not a summer make
as the Taz said to Billy's missus :andrea:

[faster69]

Rubens was faster than Michael on so many occasions, like in Spielberg 2002. Guess who won anyways. So much for the team not deciding your destiny. Ferrari have always blatantly preferred one driver over the other for almost two decades and they never made a secret of it.

barrichello was rarely quicker than schumacher. in fact austria 2002 was the first time that conflict arose due to schumacher almost always being ahead of barrichello whether qualifying or the race. ferrari handled it poorly by being blatant. they should have been subtle by saying "rubhino, michael is faster than you." i joke. it's no different to making coulthard pull over for hakkinen either. in fact that's worse because a championship wasn't at stake in that instance. it was just horrible favoritism by ron dennis.

going into that austria race schumacher had 44 points to barrichello's 6, and with the near misses of 97, 98 and what could have been in 99 if schumacher didn't break his leg, they weren't going to take any risks in terms of the championship. schumacher ended up giving barrichello indy and some other wins after the championship was won, so get over it!

[faster69]

Lol WHY do you need to keep making excuses for Massa? You're hilarious. He's getting consistently whooped by a far superior teammate - deal with it. Pitting 1 lap after your teammate is NOT an excuse for finishing 40 seconds down. And whoopdeedoo that he managed to match Alonso in one race.

no-one's trying to say massa is a better driver than alonso. it's the way ferrari go out of there way to ensure massa is behind alonso no matter what.

massa was right on alonso's tail. massa has to go around another lap on trashed tyres (which everyone agreed was terrible and they should have pitted them one after another) which meant when he came out in the pack behind hamilton and raikkonen. it was race over for massa and he was looking at 4th at best.

[faster69]

He's racing for Ferrari and since 1996 with the exception of 2008 only one driver is allowed to win. If Fernando conks out, maybe, but else, he won't. Just remember Germany 2010.

schumacher used to outqualify irvine by up to 1.5 seconds a lap. irvine never got in front of schumacher! same with barrichello until 2002. barrichello hooked it up well at the a-1 ring for some reason. schumacher is sporting and gave barrichello the win back at indy so no harm was done. has alonso repaid massa for germany 2010?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Are you done trolling this thread? Please some mod - separate this discussion.

[faster69]

just debate me on the facts you disagree with. feel free to correct me.

[dj_bytedisaster]

just debate me on the facts you disagree with. feel free to correct me.

You don't have any...

[Tazio]

Qualifying radio communications (http://vimeo.com/64453122)

[truefan72]

Sorry but cannot split threads as I am using my iPhone at the moment, so lets just stick to topic :)

not Android?

lol, trying to start another intra-post battle ;)

[truefan72]

wow, this thread went off topic fast
as to the race and tangentially referring to the Massa/Alonso discussion

If there is any chance of the "resurrection of Massa" within the team and podiums/wins, this race is his golden ticket.
Starting P4 with the hards and right behind his teammate.
He should go at least 10 laps further than Alonso, and I assume he will take the race lead as Rosberg, Vettel and Alonso pit.
It will then be up to him to put in 10 stunning laps to make his strategy work, and perhaps even stretch it to a 2 stop strategy.
So as I see it, out of the top 5 starting positions, he is on the optimum strategy.

Now just because conspiracy theorists may sound crazy, doesn't mean that there ins't a kernel of truth in some of the speculation.
I for one think the Ferrari will compromise Massa. Probably bringing him in earlier than required, and if he and Alonso are close, either told to back off or let him pass.
Team orders are allowed and I think one of the reasons Massa is even back at Ferrari despite having a terrible 2012 was probably under the understanding that he is a clear #2
Now what would be interesting is if he were to disregard team orders and have an epic battle with Alonso. Now that would be something to watch!

[N4D13]

I'm fairly sure that Ferrari will make sure that Massa does not compromise Alonso's strategy if by any chance he ends up in front of him. If they still need to pit and there is a significant laptime difference between then, the slower one will be told to let his teammate through - whoever it is. It would not make any sense to destroy one or both drivers' strategy by letting them race.

[andyone]

i did say that mercedes were up to somthing... now wait for the race...

[zako85]

I am glad for Rosberg's pole, but he is starting tomorrow's race surrounded by real sharks, Vettel and Alonso. It will be an interesting race. I was again surprised by McLaren's lack of speed. Who could have predicted a year ago that McLaren cars will be mostly racing with Force India.

[kfzmeister]

I hope Alonso can get by Vettel unscathed. Undoubtedly, Seb'll try something dirty.
As for Massa beating Alonso and all this nonsense discussed earlier :rotflmao:
Even if his strategy is better than Alonso's, he'll somehow manage to end up at least 30 seconds off the leader.....
The only real threat to Alonso tomorrow is Kimi and, well.......he didn't show up for qualifying. :(

[zako85]

I hope Alonso can get by Vettel unscathed. Undoubtedly, Seb'll try something dirty.


Undoubtedly? Please.

[kfzmeister]

Undoubtedly? Please.

As long as he stays back in the first turn, so that Seb doesn't try another brake check. Lol

[gloomyDAY]

96 images from qualifying. (http://imgur.com/a/gIdgJ)

[dj_bytedisaster]

As long as he stays back in the first turn, so that Seb doesn't try another brake check. Lol

Does that mean you think that Alonso's bone-headed mistake at Malaysia is now suddenly a dirty tactic by Vettel? He may have learned his starting tactics from the chopmeister Schuey himself, but I think such a stupid statement isn't even funny if meant sarcastically...

[msratings]

Rosberg could surprise us all but I do think the race is going to be between Seb, Kimi and Fernando. Massa may get swamped at the start as he is on the hard tyres and those behind will be on softs and as the track is easy to overtake on then he might not be able to hold them back. But the ferrari does have good race pace so hopefully he might be able to hold people off.

Unless there is something totally unusually happening this afternoon I would be surprised to see anyone but the top 4 on the winners step.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think it's Fernando's race to lose. Rosberg will fade since the Merc is too hard on the rear tires over a long run and the RB is too hard on tires in general. Massa is on hards and not allowed to finish ahead of him anyways and the two FI's in row 3 are not yet fast enough to challenge a Ferrari, so unless he does something stupid, Fernando should easily win this.

[msratings]

It would seem this is alonso's race to lose indeed but Vettel can surprise and does pull some thing out of the bag on tracks that are hard on tyres.

[donKey jote]

Does that mean you think that Alonso's bone-headed mistake at Malaysia is now suddenly a dirty tactic by Vettel? He may have learned his starting tactics from the chopmeister Schuey himself, but I think such a stupid statement isn't even funny if meant sarcastically...

nah, if it was meant sarcastically it was slightly amusing :D

I'm expecting Vettel to do one of Ham's old swerve-squeeze-chop maneuvers at the start though :p

[gtbred]

The old man has lost his mind.

[donKey jote]

really? :andrea:

[donKey jote]

Nice to see María on the Spanish F1 coverage :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

It would seem this is alonso's race to lose indeed but Vettel can surprise and does pull some thing out of the bag on tracks that are hard on tyres.

It was the first race he won last year, so I wouldn't count him out, but unlike last year 'nando has a decent car, so I think he's in the best position to take this.

[longisland]

It,s less than 20 mins from race and the grand stand is only less than half occupied. Race in Mars may have the lowest attendance of the season

[dj_bytedisaster]

It,s less than 20 mins from race and the grand stand is only less than half occupied. Race in Mars may have the lowest attendance of the season

Nah, there'll be more people later. Police simply isn't done yet beating them up in front of the gates.

[donKey jote]

half empty?
Be an optimist... it's a quarter full ! :p :andrea:

[donKey jote]

sychronised ads on RTL and Antena3 :mad:
I miss the BBC :dozey:

[truefan72]

ok
here we go!

[longisland]

This track, along with Shanghai & Sepang shouldn't have DRS zone. There's enough straight section for overtaking. Instead, we ll be watching a lot of passing

[Koz]

Yay! "Atmospheric conditions have temporarily interrupted your viewing"!

Awesome!

[Tazio]

Hello persons :D

[donKey jote]

gogogogogoooooo :D

[veeten]

and here we..... GOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Wow, Fernando didn't wait long :rotflmao: great fight...

[veeten]

and he stuffs it into the back of the Red Bull!!... :p

[truefan72]

if rosberg was smart he would let vettel pass right before the start finish straight then use drs to blast past him

[dj_bytedisaster]

Bloody norah! there's real racing at the front :eek: Looks like the RB's found some straight-line speed in the mail this morning...

[truefan72]

what happened to my man sutil, ugh!

Diresta doing well

[dj_bytedisaster]

what happened to my man sutil, ugh!

Diresta doing well

Sutil got nerfed by Massa

[tfp]

if rosberg was smart he would let vettel pass right before the start finish straight then use drs to blast past him

I was thinking that, second place is the new pole position!

Gutted for Rosberg, that red bull is just too damn fast.

[truefan72]

great pass DiResta

[Garry Walker]

Nice to see RB being 1 second per lap faster than other cars, even a fool like bieber will not manage to waste this one.

[donKey jote]

Alo has a DRS problem :(
Broken wing !

[tfp]

great pass DiResta

About time we had a decent race from him! What's up with massa's wing?

[veeten]

Ah, side-by-side viewing... THAT'S the reason I liked NBC/Comcast for taking over broadcasting of F1. :)

[donKey jote]

balls :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

About time we had a decent race from him! What's up with massa's wing?

Damage from when he punted Sutil off in turn 3

[truefan72]

drama! for Alonso
DRS problems

DiResta is chasing down Vettel, push! man Push!

[donKey jote]

****e... it's well broken. :mad:

[gm99]

Very clever by Alonso to use the DRS again after it had stuck open before.

[Rollo]

Alonso's race will be slower but he can probably still pick up points provided he doesn't press the magic flappy button.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Rosberg getting eaten by a McLaren. That Merc is nowhere in race trim

[Ranger]

Very clever by Alonso to use the DRS again after it had stuck open before.

The team didn't even know if it was permanently damaged so it was worth a shot.

Unfortunately I don't think anyone will catch Vettel this afternoon now.

[donKey jote]

One pit for Alo would have been ok, but two :mad: :dozey:

[Garry Walker]

How easy is it for RB? Gutierrez would dominate in that car

[Tazio]

FA will have to run the rest of the race witout openning DRS methinks. Should be interesting to see if he can salvage some points. :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

How easy is it for RB? Gutierrez would dominate in that car

Seeing you whine and weep is so totally worth it. Heck it's not over yet. There's still 40 laps to go. BTW Mark doesn't seem to do much dominating in that car ;)

[Garry Walker]

Seeing you whine and weep is so totally worth it. Heck it's not over yet. There's still 40 laps to go. BTWMark doesn't seem to do much dominating in that car ;)

I am happy that my life is so important for you. If there is any justice bieber will have a brake failure, but knowing how great newey cars are, that is not going to happen.
So you bieber maniacs can blow your loads on another great victory for him and yell how great he is :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

I am happy that my life is so important for you. If there is any justice bieber will have a brake failure, but knowing how great newey cars are, that is not going to happen.
So you bieber maniacs can blow your loads on another great victory for him and yell how great he is :laugh:

That's not the point, man. You aren't around much, but every race weekend you'll show up as inevitably as the Amen in church crying us all a river with your RB hatred. It's getting old and it's getting annoying.
Fact is, so far RB has done no mistakes, while Ferrari seems to try for a new record of cockups per weekend. My money still hopes for Kimi to get past because I bet an outside-chance tenner on him

[donKey jote]

both Ferraris with an extra pit :(

[truefan72]

mercedes pace is terrible

hamilton on the mediums, perhapsa strategic move, but it is not working out
kimi catching him rapidly

[Garry Walker]

That's not the point, man. You aren't around much, but every race weekend you'll show up as inevitably as the Amen in church crying us all a river with your RB hatred. It's getting old and it's getting annoying.

I don't hate red Bull, in fact I often praise how great of a team and car they have. So pretty much every idiot could win in that car.
As for whether you are annoyed by what I say, I can only :laugh: :laugh: .

Come on, I want to see a brake failure for bieber now :laugh:

[pino]

Garry stay calm and call drivers with their real name !

[tfp]

That's not the point, man. You aren't around much, but every race weekend you'll show up as inevitably as the Amen in church crying us all a river with your RB hatred. It's getting old and it's getting annoying.
Fact is, so far RB has done no mistakes, while Ferrari seems to try for a new record of cockups per weekend. My money still hopes for Kimi to get past because I bet an outside-chance tenner on him


I think you've just lost a tenner ;)

[truefan72]

nonsense, why did mercedes not pit hamilton this lap?????

this is so annoying

[donKey jote]

Alo sitting duck without DRS :dozey:

[truefan72]

stupid mercedes, pitted hamilton a lap too late and now he is in p15
utter rubbish

[dj_bytedisaster]

I think you've just lost a tenner ;)

I'm afraid I did, but one is allowed to hope ;) But heck, we've seen so many good battles so far. Pretty nifty race so far for a Tilkedrome.

[Garry Walker]

I have a question - Name a driver who couldn't win a race in the RB? Out of the drivers on grid today, I can' think of any.

[donKey jote]

Nico needs to save fuel :dozey:

[Robinho]

I'll bite...Webber?

Sent from North Korea using the dark network

[dj_bytedisaster]

I have a question - Name a driver who couldn't win a race in the RB? Out of the drivers on grid today, I can' think of any.

Mark Webber.

[tfp]

I have a question - Name a driver who couldn't win a race in the RB? Out of the drivers on grid today, I can' think of any.

pastor and grosjean, even if they were out in front, they would still find something to crash in to ;)

nice pass from Diresta!

[Garry Walker]

Mark Webber.

Well, he would have won in Malaysia had the team been honest to him, but they handicapped him. So you are wrong once again.

[tfp]

pastor and grosjean, even if they were out in front, they would still find something to crash in to ;)

nice pass from Diresta!

Ill take it back about grosjean, he's doing quite well right now!

[truefan72]

now mercedes tell rosberg to "save fuel"
ridiculous

[Garry Walker]

Good going Perez :laugh:

[donKey jote]

Pérez donkey of the race :down:

[tfp]

now mercedes tell rosberg to "save fuel"
ridiculous

There should be a stupidest team award, and merc and Ferrari will definitely be fighting for that award.

[dj_bytedisaster]

The two McLarens having a bit of fun among themselves :rotflmao:

[truefan72]

team orders for Mclaren?

[donKey jote]

di Resta driver of the race :up:

[donKey jote]

Button dirty whining donkey :down:

[truefan72]

shut up button
perez is quicker

[truefan72]

jenson ran his teammate off the track, pushed him out wide, moved over and touched him and then complains
loser

[dj_bytedisaster]

LOL, I find it good to watch. :D Heck after all the "don't race" team radios of China, we're finally getting some entertainment. Sh*t just got serious at Woking :rotflmao:

[Rollo]

mercedes pace is terrible

The two Mercedes look a little wiggly in the rear end. I think that this is cooking their tyres too quickly and the rubber isn't working for them as well.

[Garry Walker]

jenson ran his teammate off the track, pushed him out wide, moved over and touched him and then complains
loser

Perez touched Button. I am not sure what you are bitching about.

[Koz]

Is it me or does Kimi whine a little too much these days?

[veeten]

now, THAT'S blocking!... :eek:

[donKey jote]

Massa a bad tyre again ? :eek:

[dj_bytedisaster]

What the heck is wrong with Ferrari today? :S

[Garry Walker]

Is it me or does Kimi whine a little too much these days?

Asking the team a question is whining? :laugh:

[veeten]

what happened to Massa's rear tyre?

[Garry Walker]

What the heck is wrong with Ferrari today? :S

Their car is crap.

[webberf1]

Don't know wtf webber was thinking closing the door on the Mercedes like that.

[truefan72]

webber is going to get a penalty, that was a deliberate move

[dj_bytedisaster]

Looks like today's driver briefing was had in an autoscooter :D

[veeten]

Webber & Rosberg under Investigation. Someone is getting a drive-thru...

[gm99]

Wow - Alonso posting the fastest lap. Did Ferrari fix his DRS?

[truefan72]

why is hamliton so slow??

[dj_bytedisaster]

why is hamliton so slow??

Same reason like Nico. The car is utter crap in race trim today

[truefan72]

and as I say that hi pumps in his fastest middle secotr
saving tires?
and where did alonso find all that speed, DRS fixed?

[truefan72]

wow, why is rosberg in the pits again?

[veeten]

Lotus is really on-song today. Both cars in line for podium finish.

[pino]

Come on Fernando, show your balls :p :

[Rollo]

wow, why is rosberg in the pits again?

This:


The two Mercedes look a little wiggly in the rear end. I think that this is cooking their tyres too quickly and the rubber isn't working for them as well.

Wiggling leads to friction. Friction leads to heat. Heat leads to cooking. Cooking leads to slowness. Slowness leads to 14th. 14th leads to oblivion. Oblivion is the dark side

[Ranger]

webber is going to get a penalty, that was a deliberate move

No worse than any other Rosberg, Button or Perez antic pulled multiple times today.

I'd be embarrassed if that move attracted a penalty when the rest of them didn't.

Alonso has done extremely well to salvage anything from this race.

[markabilly]

why is hamliton so slow??


wow, why is rosberg in the pits again?

Article is out that the team figured they needed more heat in the rear tires to get better traction.

So now they have more heat, more speed, but now they go through rubbers like donKey's momma

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[veeten]

Come on Fernando, show your balls :p : If he doesn't watch out, he'll get a "donkey kick" from Hamilton... ;) :p

[markabilly]

This:



Wiggling leads to friction. Friction leads to heat. Heat leads to cooking. Cooking leads to slowness. Slowness leads to 14th. 14th leads to oblivion. Oblivion is the dark side

Their choice is speed eating tires, or tires eating speed. They seemed to have gone too far to keep a decent race pace...

[markabilly]

jenson ran his teammate off the track, pushed him out wide, moved over and touched him and then complains
loser

well, at least we have something to talk about now..............

[veeten]

the Mexican gave Alonso a "dirty Sanchez"... :laugh:

[Rollo]

For some reason, this tilkedrome is reminding me of the A1-Ring. Several camera shots and overtaking points are doing it for me.

[webberf1]

Good hard racing from Perez imo.
Well done Vettel.

[truefan72]

drivers of the race

Grosjean
DiResta
perez
Alonso
Hamilton
Kimi
in that order

I expect Webber to be demoted

[dj_bytedisaster]

A bit boring at the front after Fernando and Nico dropped back, but the many hard fought battles made for an interesting race. Very entertaining.

[donKey jote]

well done Lotus

shame about Alo - no DRS and an extra stop -> 28sec behind P2

[ShiftingGears]

Some great battles throughout the race, shame about Alonso though.

[truefan72]

No worse than any other Rosberg, Button or Perez antic pulled multiple times today.

I'd be embarrassed if that move attracted a penalty when the rest of them didn't.

Alonso has done extremely well to salvage anything from this race.

it was much worse

[veeten]

team of the race... Lotus. This is how you win a WCC, watch closely Merc, McLaren, Ferrari, et al...

[Roamy]

Nice the Vettel fake scream - STFU
Time for Flavio to take the reins at Ferrari. Great job by the drug runner. Time for Webber to go to Aussie V8 series. Pretty good race all and all.

[webberf1]

Rollo, this race is all the proof anyone needs how much better f1 is now than it was before pirelli/kers/drs and the new aero regs. A few years ago sakhir was boring as hell. Now we have some great wheel to wheel racing all race long. Hamilton vs Webber: fantastic.

[AndyL]

Pretty much everyone vs everyone was fantastic.

[truefan72]

so annoying to see vettel on the podium
He is celebrating like he did something special today
He basically ran away from the start after his main competitor Alonso ran into trouble
from there it was cruise control until the end.
Webber had an up and down race. At times, showing incredible pace, at other times suffering from tire deg.


DiResta and Grosjean had a brave fight
Perez silenced his doubters,and seems to be getting something out of Mclaren in this race
also, the mclaren looks much improved

Hamilton did very well to pass webber and salvage probably the maximum points he could from this race. I do think the fact they pitted him one lap too late at the 3 rd stop meant he dropped to p15 while he would have come out closer to grosjean and probably had a go at DiResta.

Alonso performed miracles with no DRS and essentaily, 1 extra pitstop, especially in close succession, which is almost like a drive through. That Ferrari has some raw pace.
Meanwhile massa was nowhere on the preferred strategy. Look at what DiResta & Co did with a long first stint on those mediums. Ok after that poor first stint, he then suffered 2 tire punctures, and I wonder how much of that was being too aggressive on the kerbs, running into the back of another car or some setup problem. But overall. a race to forget for him.

Lotus where excellent today
Rosberg, not so much. what the heck happened, in looking out how things panned out if hamilton did not have that 5 grid penalty where would he be. BTW it's 4-0 hamilton. He made his tires work. Nico didn't.
I think that Nico would have been better served letting Vettel and alonso go by early then managing his race from there, instead of swerving around trying to defend then losing out and wrecking his tires.
Defending p1 on lap 2/3 is not that important to an overall race strategy imo.

Sutil's season is turning into MSC's 2012 season. that Force India is fast. Good Job DiResta. Sad for Sutil

[wedge]

For some reason, this tilkedrome is reminding me of the A1-Ring. Several camera shots and overtaking points are doing it for me.

There was some terrific wheel to wheel dogfights. At least the drivers weren't told how to race because of 'tyre management'.


Rollo, this race is all the proof anyone needs how much better f1 is now than it was before pirelli/kers/drs and the new aero regs. A few years ago sakhir was boring as hell. Now we have some great wheel to wheel racing all race long. Hamilton vs Webber: fantastic.

The only crap race I recall is 2010.

[longisland]

Great race! Kudos to Mclaren for allowing Perez to pester Button for the good part of the race in light of the presence of their main sponsor señor Simms. In effect ruining Buttons race but its Mclaren's mantra to let drivers race each other even if it means compromising the team's strategy.

[markabilly]

good racing everywhere, except for the lead of the race. That is the problem.

and the so obviously fake scream...... :rolleyes:

[dj_bytedisaster]

so annoying to see vettel on the podium
He is celebrating like he did something special today


That's not quite fair. He didn't get the lead by default, he had to wrestle down both Alonso and Rosberg to get there. We have a lot of people saying that Vettel can't fight. Today he did. When Fernando ran into trouble, Vettel was already out of DRS range, so he didn't get it gifted completely.
And he did something special. He won a race. That's special by default, because 23 other guys didn't. Every driver, who wins a GP did something special. Even Maldonado.

[truefan72]

Great race! Kudos to Mclaren for allowing Perez to pester Button for the good part of the race in light of the presence of their main sponsor señor Simms. In effect ruining Buttons race but its Mclaren's mantra to let drivers race each other even if it means compromising the team's strategy.

Its the other way around for me. Button as ruining Perez's race. Perez was obviously half a second quicker and defended aggressively then had the nerve to complain. What did he expect, perez to hold station behind him and allow Alonso to pass him?

the proof was how quick perez was once he got passed buton and alons made a quick meal of him too. then button had to pit for a 4th time.
I'm sorry, but Button was a donkey today and all he did was compromise Perez today.

[truefan72]

That's not quite fair. He didn't get the lead by default, he had to wrestle down both Alonso and Rosberg to get there. We have a lot of people saying that Vettel can't fight. Today he did. When Fernando ran into trouble, Vettel was already out of DRS range, so he didn't get it gifted completely.
And he did something special. He won a race. That's special by default, because 23 other guys didn't. Every driver, who wins a GP did something special. Even Maldonado.

sorta fair enough. He earned it with his first 2 laps action, where of course the RBR is mighty.
If you look back at every race since full tanks came in, RBR has had the measure of its competitors on the opening laps, especially in Vettel's hands.

But, I grudgingly acknowledge a solid race from him, and fastest lap. So I'll say he did good, but not worthy of an almighty scream like he had just had a historic race. Its far too exuberant based on the outcome.
I guess every win is special.

[truefan72]

Button needs to shut up
He is slagging Perez in his interview with sky

What a loser,
so much for a "team leader"

Perez has nothing to apologize for.
With the improving car, it seems like perez is doing what folks thought he could do, slightly outperform the car, while Button did what many here think he always does, simply drive only to the limitations of the car.

[truefan72]

and during the interview with whitemarsh he also has a very slight dig at Perez for touching button from behind which is not really within context
1. Button was all over the track, weaving in and out
2. Button slightly brake checked him. I watched it 3 times now and it is clear that Button was too slow in that corner
3. Button is lucky not to get a penalty for simply running Perez off the track
4. Has Whitemarsh talked to Button and told him that what he did running his teammate off the track was wrong?

They are making it as if Perez purpoosly hit Button from behind
so annoying

At least Button i sorta walking back some of his anger a bit, and is trying to make light of the situation

[longisland]

Didn't realize Button ran out of rubber and was holding up Checo. Then the fault will lie squarely on Mclaren for ruining the team's race. So much for allowing drivers to race each other. Again, Kudos to Mclaren.

[veeten]

If I'm Red Bull, I'm not celebrating too much. Vettel is in the lead, but only 10 points ahead of Raikkonen. RBR leads the WCC, but Lotus is only 16 points behind. Two weeks before Spain, and the heat will be on Red Bull as Webber isn't doing too good as of late. Another 2-car podium by Lotus and things will get kinda skittish in Austria.

[truefan72]

lol
Davidson exposes Button and the man is at a loss for words
brilliant

[truefan72]

in looking back, Perez is also lucky to get away with running Alonso off the track. Although that was a little less obvious, it was still out of bounds IMO.

[veeten]

the mistake was made before the start of the season. They let Hamilton go, kept Button, and brought in Perez. Now, you have a situation where Sergio is more faster than Jensen, in every way (does this situation look familiar?... RBR, to be exact), and the driver that would've been a better fit passed him for a higher spot in the race today; his former teammate, no-less.

[ShiftingGears]

I will say that I did see an awful lot of what I thought was double movement when blocking in the race, which I imagine will get addressed at some point this season. If a driver is on a straight starts veering to the right, and then changes his trajectory by turning further to the right, that is surely blocking twice. Unless the stewards simply interpret the rule as being unable to swerve from left to right.

[faster69]

That's not quite fair. He didn't get the lead by default, he had to wrestle down both Alonso and Rosberg to get there. We have a lot of people saying that Vettel can't fight. Today he did. When Fernando ran into trouble, Vettel was already out of DRS range, so he didn't get it gifted completely.
And he did something special. He won a race. That's special by default, because 23 other guys didn't. Every driver, who wins a GP did something special. Even Maldonado.

+1.

ferrari had the best car today, but vettel was already putting time on alonso after making that gutsy move on him. pressured alonso into a slight area then punished him dearly.

[faster69]

Wow - Alonso posting the fastest lap. Did Ferrari fix his DRS?

no, the ferrari had the best race pace today.

[Whyzars]

Nothing made sense in this race result.

Alonso had 2 unnecessary stops, no DRS and finishes 8th. Brilliant.

Rosberg qualifies on pole and receives a boat anchor for the race. Whatever happened to his car in Parc Ferme should be investigated - Make his car pee into a bottle.

Lotus barely get one car into Q3 and finish 2nd and 3rd because their PS3 was able to simulate the tyres better than anyone elses PS3?

The race for 5th consisted of cars trying not run out of fuel trying not to be caught by other cars trying not to run out of fuel. :crazy:

Commentators were saying tyres, tyres, tyres when they probably should've been saying fuel, fuel, fuel! Aren't the commentators told that the cars have to run on 4 cylinders for most of the race?

This race was a nonsense and Vettel made the rest of the grid look very, very ordinary.

:)

[faster69]

LOL at alonso already claiming he's been very very unlucky twice. malaysia was his fault for hitting vettel then his fault for not coming in despite the team waiting with the wing. bad luck in bahrain but he chose to use the DRS a second time.

did he even have a mechanical problem or botched pit stop last year??? only bad luck he had was getting taken out at spa. perez gifted him malaysia 2012, vettel and hamilton scored 0 at valencia while he scored 25.

vettel broke down with the lead at valencia.

hamilton broke down while dominating a race twice, plus all the pit stop screw ups, fuel screw up in spain, etc.

[faster69]

"Nothing made sense in this race result.

Alonso had 2 unnecessary stops, no DRS and finishes 8th. Brilliant."

alonso finishing 8th makes sense when you have the strongest car in the field. vettel didn't use drs for most of the day. kimi was in open space not using drs for most of the day (except traffic of course).

[truefan72]

Nothing made sense in this race result.

Alonso had 2 unnecessary stops, no DRS and finishes 8th. Brilliant.

Rosberg qualifies on pole and receives a boat anchor for the race. Whatever happened to his car in Parc Ferme should be investigated - Make his car pee into a bottle.

Lotus barely get one car into Q3 and finish 2nd and 3rd because their PS3 was able to simulate the tyres better than anyone elses PS3?

The race for 5th consisted of cars trying not run out of fuel trying not to be caught by other cars trying not to run out of fuel. :crazy:

Commentators were saying tyres, tyres, tyres when they probably should've been saying fuel, fuel, fuel! Aren't the commentators told that the cars have to run on 4 cylinders for most of the race?

This race was a nonsense and Vettel made the rest of the grid look very, very ordinary.

:)

then why bother watching :/

it was an exciting race
and the tires played less of a factor today

thankfully

[steveaki13]

I was out all day and have just finished watching the race.

That was a decent one for sure.

Vettels first 2 laps were brilliant and then he used Red Bulls pace well and got a dominant win.

The tyres were more under control today, but DRS on these long straights almost looked dangerous at times. The speed at which cars caught rivals meant people defending were defending against someone flying at them 20KPH faster or whatever.

There was some great battling in midfield and some silly incidents.

Some great racing outside the DRS zones too so it was a good race all round.

[Duncan]

The tires are starting to get a little ridiculous now... not sure what happened to Massa, twice, but looked like a catastrophic failure in the same tire. Maybe something damaged on the floor of the car causing surface damage to the tire and resulting in failure? I don't see any obvious explanation for Hamilton's practice failure, though.

[Whyzars]

then why bother watching :/

Because its F1. I've always watched F1.

Just like I did with grooved tyres, I will eagerly await the race changing madness that is DRS and KERS being relegated to the dustbin of history... :)




it was an exciting race
and the tires played less of a factor today

thankfully

Lotus 2nd and 3rd, after qualifying well down the grid, showed that tyres, or fuel load, had a huge impact on this race result. You said yourself in an earlier post that Webber was suffering from the tyre degradation and he was one of many. Add a DRS zone which can destroy a racers race, should he get caught whilst on old tyres, and I see this F1 result as a nonsense.

If the tyres are behaving as designed then we don't need the DRS, easy as that. Alonso's DRS failing in the open position is something that was never supposed to happen, guess what, it did. He was fortunate his race did not end spectacularly.

I don't get moist over the DRS deciding race results for 5th place. I like my race action at the pointy end and there wasn't any. Look at the ease with which Grosjean cruised through the field, assisted by the DRS, and tell me how he did this if it wasn't tyres - or fuel.

We have Parc Ferme in F1. When we see cars going backwards through the field and others coming forward, it can only be two things - tyres and/or fuel. We can all see what tyres teams are running but the race fuel load at the start is not publicised and should be. At least when the top ten had to qualify in full race trim there was no mystery - that was in the days of fuel stops as well so it is more important now. Teams could also be compelled to advertise burn rate through the race.

Rosberg drove a dominant qualifying lap to stick it on pole. He and his team mate, both accomplished drivers, were unable to finish better than 5th with Rosberg going backwards from the first lap. Qualifying is not straw drawing and when qualifying does not represent race reality there is something odd happening.

Angela Landsbury performs in mysteries, Nico Rosberg does not.


All in good fun... :)

[TheFamousEccles]

Rosberg drove a dominant qualifying lap to stick it on pole. He and his team mate, both accomplished drivers, were unable to finish better than 5th with Rosberg going backwards from the first lap. Qualifying is not straw drawing and when qualifying does not represent race reality there is something odd happening.



Interesting point. I see Webber getting enormous amounts of abuse for apparently underperforming in the "best car" on the grid, yet Rosberg - in the dominant car in qualifying (Bieber himself said Rosberg was too fast) had the handbrake on from the off. As did Hamilton. Where's the calls for them to be fired for underperforming? Or is this just over excited armchair experts giving out the authoritah? Or it could be boring and predictable dross? Who can tell?

[Robinho]

Its the other way around for me. Button as ruining Perez's race. Perez was obviously half a second quicker and defended aggressively then had the nerve to complain. What did he expect, perez to hold station behind him and allow Alonso to pass him?

the proof was how quick perez was once he got passed buton and alons made a quick meal of him too. then button had to pit for a 4th time.
I'm sorry, but Button was a donkey today and all he did was compromise Perez today.

To be fair, Button started in front, was making good progress before and after the 1st stops, but Perez and Rosberg both pitted before him in the 2nd stops. Button came out behind, caught and passed them both, but in doing so appears to have taken the best of the tyres and Perez stayed in the DRS zone. The following battle clearly finished Button's tyres. That period was the only period when Perez was really quicker, prior to that Button appeared as quick if not quicker. I also think they both drove well, exceeded the car at time and for me had a great battle. It was a bit close to the lines of reasonable at times, but they got away with it. The knock on the rear and banging wheels when side by side I put on Perez's side, I also think Button was a little "robust" when Perez ran out of road, although he was only partly alongside.

It's also interesting to see the Mclaren being a decent car in race trim, its not the quickest, but was mixing it with the Mercs, Massa and Webber yesterday. It seems very much like Ferrari in 2012. A change in suspension (to pull-rod) a car that lacks grip in qually and is somewhere around a second of the ultimate pace, but improves immeasureably on the Sunday.

[jens]

so annoying to see vettel on the podium
He is celebrating like he did something special today


I think this is a bit unfair to criticize people for being happy, whenever it goes well in life? When should we be happy at all then?

I would personally celebrate with full enjoyment and emotion whenever I win, unless something tragic happened in the race or the race leader retired with a car failure on the last lap, then it would feel slightly strange as well. You've got to enjoy life, especially if you do well, don't you?

[jens]

How easy is it for RB? Gutierrez would dominate in that car

Oh, Garry. What can I say, mate. I would kindly recommend for you to follow another sport, which creates you happier emotions, as long as Vettel is still in F1. :) Because he threatens to stay in F1 for a long time and be successful.

As for Gutiérrez, I see that he finished among Caterhams and Marussias in the last race - that in a Sauber, which you would probably expect to be significantly more competitive. So you do not convince me that Gutiérrez can dominate anything even in the fastest car. :)

[zako85]

Nothing made sense in this race result.

Alonso had 2 unnecessary stops, no DRS and finishes 8th. Brilliant.



He did ok job, I wouldn't call such result brilliant in the presence of so much noise. Vettel had finished on the podium from the last position in the last year.



Rosberg qualifies on pole and receives a boat anchor for the race. Whatever happened to his car in Parc Ferme should be investigated - Make his car pee into a bottle.


What happened probably is that Rosberg got the suspension settings he asked for, which still makes him a donkey.



This race was a nonsense and Vettel made the rest of the grid look very, very ordinary.

:)

Vettel got lucky because Alonso had a mechanical problem early in the race. After that Vettel had no real competition. This was one of the easiest wins. A pretty ordinary Vettel win IMO. Besides Alonso-Ferrari the rest of the grid is not competitive with him on consistent basis.

[steveaki13]

As for Gutiérrez, I see that he finished among Caterhams and Marussias in the last race - that in a Sauber, which you would probably expect to be significantly more competitive. So you do not convince me that Gutiérrez can dominate anything even in the fastest car. :)



He did smash into one on lap 1 so lost 40 seconds odd pitting for a new nose, but he still didnt manage to overhaul them. Which may say a bit about Marussia and Caterhams improved pace as well as Estebans race from hell.