2013 Chinese Grand Prix Thread

[henners88]

Could we not go back to the days of a set of tyres lasting a good part of the season, and worked in most weathers? Maybe then mandate a maximum of 8 sets of tyres for the season......
Not sure I would want that. They would have to be pretty damn good tyres to suit the cars of today with the cornering speeds we see.

[henners88]

That should be the definition of tyre management. The ability and knowing when to push but still suffer degradation.
That is a skill every driver should be on their way to learning. Regardless of what tyre they use, durable or fragile, tyre management comes into the equation.

[steveaki13]

My issues with these tyres is that they dictate the show too much. The races are more about tyre management now than they are about actual racing. And when there is an "overtaking maneuvre" the other driver is most likely to be a sitting duck due to lack of grip. Two or three laps can make a massive difference. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it all seems a little too forced.


I don't like DRS either. It also leaves drivers, aka, Lews yesterday against Fernando to be a sitting duck. Mind you, I don't think Lewis could have kept Fred behind him anyway but it's just another example of the "show" that is now F1.


I'd rather see two guys at it flat out, balls to the wall, for 50 laps, kinda like we saw in Austin last year with Vettel and Hamilton, than to see the jokeshop that is going on now. That race isn Austin was brilliant and for me was the most enjoyable race in F1 for quite a while seeing two drivers push each other like that. You won't really get that with the tyres provided at this weekends Chinese GP.

Exactly right. Spot on Black or Mr Knight.

[webberf1]

he started third on the grid and had the fastest. how much slicing was there to do exactly? kimi made a terrible start and hamilton was easy pickings for both ferraris.

massa didn't have quite the same strategy. he had to do an extra lap on trashed tyres. he was right on alonso's tail, but because of the extra lap came back out in 12th. hamilton and kimi were now in front of him. vettel and button were on different strategies. alonso passed button, but button was on 20 lap old tyres at the time. he passed vettel but vettel wasn't fighting for a win and didn't want to lose time defending against the inevitable.
Its ok you're obviously not as experienced an F1 or racing viewer as I, so you're perhaps not noticing a lot of the little things that Alonso does on track better than anyone else. As well as his outright race pace which I would say is the best of anyone in the field (lets face it, he has virtually non-stop put Massa to shame who we know is no slouch, the man literally came within a whisker of a WDC vs Hamilton for god's sake, and put Kimi Raikkonen to the sword), the last couple of years he has been passing and moving through traffic with an efficiency which has been completely unmatched by anyone on the grid - certainly not Vettel who often loses his cool when under pressure and was unbelievably lucky on a few occasions late in 2012 not to have thrown away his title. Its Alonso's racecraft which, for me (and most of F1's seasoned observers), puts him ahead of the pack.

[faster69]

Its ok you're obviously not as experienced an F1 or racing viewer as I, so you're perhaps not noticing a lot of the little things that Alonso does on track better than anyone else. As well as his outright race pace which I would say is the best of anyone in the field (lets face it, he has virtually non-stop put Massa to shame who we know is no slouch, the man literally came within a whisker of a WDC vs Hamilton for god's sake, and put Kimi Raikkonen to the sword), the last couple of years he has been passing and moving through traffic with an efficiency which has been completely unmatched by anyone on the grid - certainly not Vettel who often loses his cool when under pressure and was unbelievably lucky on a few occasions late in 2012 not to have thrown away his title. Its Alonso's racecraft which, for me (and most of F1's seasoned observers), puts him ahead of the pack.

massa has never been the same since coming back from his accident. it's not relevant what massa is doing.

i don't know if you've paid attention but all the top drivers have passed with efficiency in the last two years. alonso's a mediocre qualifier, the ferrari is great off the line, and it had solid race pace last year after round 4 despite alonso subtly blaming the car every chance he got, and he had car reliability which is so important in a championship that heavily rewards guys that can regularly bring it home 3rd or 4th. all these things skew alonso's achievements. there's no doubt he's the third best driver on the grid, but he's not in the league of vettel and hamilton.

[webberf1]

Btw, for everyone's viewing pleasure, vid of Fernando Alonso with absolutely shot rear tyres defending off the quick finishing Schumacher (who had caught him at over 2sec per lap) in Imola 2005: Fernando alonso VS Michael Schumacher Imola 2005 onboard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK2uV9ApLts)

[faster69]

Btw, for everyone's viewing pleasure, vid of Fernando Alonso with absolutely shot rear tyres defending off the quick finishing Schumacher (who had caught him at over 2sec per lap) in Imola 2005: Fernando alonso VS Michael Schumacher Imola 2005 onboard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK2uV9ApLts)

yeah, imola used to be one of the hardest tracks to pass on. almost impossible outside of pitstops. a good performance by alonso, but needs context.

[truefan72]

Btw, for everyone's viewing pleasure, vid of Fernando Alonso with absolutely shot rear tyres defending off the quick finishing Schumacher (who had caught him at over 2sec per lap) in Imola 2005: Fernando alonso VS Michael Schumacher Imola 2005 onboard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK2uV9ApLts)

still his most impressive win

[kfzmeister]

IMO Alonso>Massa

If placed on the same team I think Alonso would put Massa into mental break down mode.

Whoa. Could it be? Nah, he had that accident, remember? :rolleyes:

[andyone]

Alonso never someone who beat him. He is a good driver though. And what if you put Alonso and Hamilton who will cry...lol.. We have seen alot of drama from him

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[jens]

I don't know, what are you so emotionally talking about, but I do know this is off-topic.
:)

And by the way, there is a topic called "How good is Vettel?", which was by the way specifically split from a different thread recently. So as I see you lot are fond of discussing about him again, feel free to join that thread.

[jens]

Oh, I wanted to add that I was wrong at one front. That alternative strategy was pretty efficient for Vettel and certainly worked for him, while I was doubtful about what could he gain by racing with "useless" tyres in the end. In contrast to the fear that soft tyres would collapse, his tyres held together very nicely - better than anyone else in the beginning of the race with heavy fuel load. And you are left thinking had RBR had more bravery to go for softs two laps earlier than they did, P2 would have been a strong possibility... Anyway, still the best strategy of the race I'd say - almost brought them podium, while before the race there were fears RBR may not be competitive at all.

[kfzmeister]

Oh, I wanted to add that I was wrong at one front. That alternative strategy was pretty efficient for Vettel and certainly worked for him, while I was doubtful about what could he gain by racing with "useless" tyres in the end. In contrast to the fear that soft tyres would collapse, his tyres held together very nicely - better than anyone else in the beginning of the race with heavy fuel load. And you are left thinking had RBR had more bravery to go for softs two laps earlier than they did, P2 would have been a strong possibility... Anyway, still the best strategy of the race I'd say - almost brought them podium, while before the race there were fears RBR may not be competitive at all.

One could just as easily suggest that pitting 2 laps earlier would have been a serious error. It could have actually dropped him further back. His tires held up nicely for 5 laps, we know nothing more. Perhaps they were dropping off the cliff when he dive bombed into turn 12. Had he put those same tires on two laps earlier, he might have struggled for the last two laps, and fell back into the clutches of Button.

Of course his tires/ car performed better with five laps of fuel left in the tank versus 56 laps worth. Not sure what the point is here.

[jens]

One could just as easily suggest that pitting 2 laps earlier would have been a serious error. It could have actually dropped him further back. His tires held up nicely for 5 laps, we know nothing more. Perhaps they were dropping off the cliff when he dive bombed into turn 12. Had he put those same tires on two laps earlier, he might have struggled for the last two laps, and fell back into the clutches of Button.

Of course his tires/ car performed better with five laps of fuel left in the tank versus 56 laps worth. Not sure what the point is here.

Fair point about the life of tyres, though Vettel's advantage over Button was so big that he wouldn't have fallen that far back unless he had a puncture.

In Sky Sports commentary it was said before the race that the life of soft tyres didn't depend on fuel load... based on Friday data. But maybe it was different for RBR or the track conditions (temps, grip) had changed during the race so that they suited softs more in the end.

[AndyL]

In Sky Sports commentary it was said before the race that the life of soft tyres didn't depend on fuel load... based on Friday data. But maybe it was different for RBR or the track conditions (temps, grip) had changed during the race so that they suited softs more in the end.

Vettel would also have got more laps from the softs compared to those who used them at the start because he had a brand new set available. Not sure if Button did as well but based on qualy lap counts, I suspect he probably did.

[N4D13]

Regarding all the Pirelli-are-destroying-F1 discussion, I feel obliged to point this out: many of you guys will definitely remember how Alain Prost won the 1987 Brazilian GP in a slower car by virtue of strategy and choosing a set-up and driving style which allowed his tyres to last significantly longer than his rivals'.

Now, I couldn't have watched that race even if I wanted (biological reasons and all), but I would find it hard to believe that people complained that much about tyres making a mockery of Formula 1 at that time - or did they?

[truefan72]

Regarding all the Pirelli-are-destroying-F1 discussion, I feel obliged to point this out: many of you guys will definitely remember how Alain Prost won the 1987 Brazilian GP in a slower car by virtue of strategy and choosing a set-up and driving style which allowed his tyres to last significantly longer than his rivals'.

Now, I couldn't have watched that race even if I wanted (biological reasons and all), but I would find it hard to believe that people complained that much about tyres making a mockery of Formula 1 at that time - or did they?

I was a teenager in 1987 and part of the reason (very unfounded IMO) why Prost is not regarded higher is for that particular reason. They called him the professor and I remember the general sentiment that he was just clever and not fast (once again unfounded as he was clever and fast) Of course the most vocal critics where Senna fans who thought balls to the wall was the only kind of racing, many Mansell fans who thought it wasn't pure racing and quite a few casual fans (as I must confess myself included. I was young lol) who thought (at the time) that his style of biding his time and coming through from the pack was not as exciting as piquet, senna (who i didn't like regardless for his over aggressive style) Berger, and others who would go out as fast as they could then try and cruise to the end.

Of course now with hindsight and just a few years after that. I started to appreciate just how good Prost was and how smart of a driver he was too.
So yeah, back in the day Prost was not celebrated for his driving style.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Of course now with hindsight and just a few years after that. I started to appreciate just how good Prost was and how smart of a driver he was too.
So yeah, back in the day Prost was not celebrated for his driving style.

Isn't that always like that? Why were people like Montoya so popular - simple - he drove like he put the helmet on back-to-front. When people see cars in a four-wheel-drift or a twitchy rear-end they think 'fast', while the driving styles of Prost or Vettel look rather unspectacular. But in the end Prost is still the yardstick in terms of 'reading a race'. What he had in cleverness, Senna made up with sheer speed and dare-devilness. But both were great champions of their time.

[Knock-on]

Isn't that always like that? Why were people like Montoya so popular - simple - he drove like he put the helmet on back-to-front. When people see cars in a four-wheel-drift or a twitchy rear-end they think 'fast', while the driving styles of Prost or Vettel look rather unspectacular. But in the end Prost is still the yardstick in terms of 'reading a race'. What he had in cleverness, Senna made up with sheer speed and dare-devilness. But both were great champions of their time.

OK, where's the real DJ gone. Who abducted him and put you in his place :D

[dj_bytedisaster]

Meh, it's still good ol' me - I'm just sober this weekend :D

[Knock-on]

You need some of Marks Koolaid :D