ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2013

[HaCo]

Finally first victory for Sordo, he deserves it!!!!

Great second for Neuville, he has years enough in front of him to win and in the championship he has stronger 2nd position now!

[RS]

Again German rally podium by Hirvonen. Well done!

Yes, only 2m36.1s off his team mate and the win! Bravo.

[Astro83]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!! Sooordo!!!!!! congrats!!!

but at the same, feel sorry for Neuville but he will win many rallyes in the future!!

Sordo and Neuville! thanks for a great, awesome battle!!! :)

[Astro83]

I feel like im from Spain right now! :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Most unlikely winner of the rally, amazing... :eek:

[Bartek]

Double win for Citroen, WRC & WRC 2 :)

This is best result for Polish rally in history and without WRC car

[miniwintz]

What a power stage, so exciting!!
Was hoping for Neuville to win but congrats to Dani Sordo, he was really good on this rally, much better than any other this season.

[Astro83]

I want to know what Neuville did after the last split? most been an "off"???

[timlord22]

Congrats to Sordo. :)

[thuGG]

Congrats to Dani and Robert!

[René]

Citroen is going to increase his sales in Spain and maybe in Germany too ! :)

[Integrale]

Congratulations to Sordo & Del Barrio, what a fight in the end. Well deserved! ;) Neuville can be very happy with that 2nd place, he lucked out a couple of times too. Loved it that he went for it until the last 5 kms.

[KKS]

So .. Nueville is too young to keep so kind of pressure from more expireince drivers like Sordo. But yes for clean speed Nueville faster.

Thanks for both for great rally!

[omer yetis]

I am very happy for Dani & Carlos! congrats for their first win.
and also happy to see such a great fight. Neuville is pretty promising and hoping to see better results from him!

I am wondering if this win will be enough for Dani's future :(

[Rautiainen]

Is there a way to see the stage in youtube or somewhere else???
Bravo to Dani! The stage was so tense, excited... aghhrrrrrrr! :D

[Brother John]

Finally first victory for Sordo, he deserves it!!!! and YES a great second place for Neuville.

[Rautiainen]

Vamos Dani!!


+53 seconds in the end haha

Why so big difference, what happened?

[Astro83]

some one knows what happend to Neuville after the last split?? they dropped a lot of time from last split untill the finish??? :/

[René]

This is also Citroen's 13th win in a row in German Rally. Thinking about you Bug… (Citroen Racing)

[eib1]

POWER STAGE STOPPED: Subhan Aksa off, spectators injured!!

[rallye-vid]

Heavy accident ss16. 2 spectators injured.

[Mirek]

Yes, I know, but it's still pathetic!

It's something more. It's that You feel closer to such driver because he speaks Your language, You often followed him from his beginnings, sometimes You even know him personally from days he was a nobody. Especially with small countries it's often like that. It's similar like with people from one village. The smaller the community the more they know each other.

[vkangas]

Feels bad to say but is not a surprise after seeing how close people were allowed to be in some spots...

[focus206]

ouch :(

[Francis44]

Damn I hope they get well soon, not a nice weekend.

[KKS]

I want to know what Neuville did after the last split? most been an "off"???

looks like he do a 360° over roof

[Astro83]

POWER STAGE STOPPED: Subhan Aksa off, spectators injured!!


what the hell!!! whats with this rally this year???? :(

talk about bad luck to this event... :S

I hope it goes well!

[bt52b]

Heavy accident ss16. 2 spectators injured.

Hope thats not as bad as it sounds

[Maui J.]

Congrats to Dani.
Great to see him finally on the top step.
Neuville not far from his first of many wins.

Amazing speed from Kubica and Evans. Elfyn is another with a big future in front of him.

Great home rally for VW...not!

[René]

WRC Drivers points

1 Ogier 184
2 Neuville 109
3 Latvala 98
4 Dani Sordo 96
5 Mikko 88
6 Loeb 68

[MartijnS]

Feels bad to say but is not a surprise after seeing how close people were allowed to be in some spots...

True. Saw some really crazy spots in the vineyards in the videos so far.

[René]

WRC Manufacturers

1 VW 258
2 Citroen Total Abu Dhabi 236
3 Qatar 127
4 Qatar M-Sport 126
5 Jipocar 51
6 Abu Dhabi Racing1 Citroen 37

[stefanvv]

Congratulations to Sordo, he deserved at least one for sure. Great Rally for Neuville and great fight, but still doing some small mistakes, he got lucky with them.

This was a roller-coaster Rally, I hope everything will be well with the injured spectators.

[bassist]

Well done Dani, after so many years supporting Seb Loeb, your win is deserved. However another tragic weekend for Rallying. I`ve seen some of the footage over the past few days, and people were really standing in ridiculous places- some with children in pushchairs!! Hope all this is not becoming a sad pattern again.

[noel157]

Yes, a lot of spectators in dangerous locations, especially at or following yumps.

Just in from Joost:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrRLYRnFydU

[Integrale]

WRC Drivers points

1 Ogier 184
2 Neuville 109
3 Latvala 98
4 Dani Sordo 96
5 Mikko 88
6 Loeb 68

You beat me to it :)

Ogier still uncatchable.
Neuville in an unbelievable 2nd place.
Latvala would be higher if he kept it on the road more often.
Sordo is beating Hirvonen...
2nd Ford-boy trails by 42 points.
Prokop is ahead of Novikov...
And Evans and Kubica going up!

1. Ogier 184
2. Neuville 109
3. Latvala 98
4. Sordo 96
5. Hirvonen 85
6. Loeb 68
7. Ostberg 67
8. Prokop 49
9. Novikov 40
10. Al-Attiyah 30
11. Mikkelsen 26
12. Evans 16
13. Kubica 14
14. Bouffier 10
15. Hanninen 8
=. Atkinson 8

[dimviii]

https://sphotos-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/q79/s720x720/1000332_10151785048597829_1288958761_n.jpg

[6789]

Congrats to Dani Sordo - great to see him get a victory!!

[bassist]

Yes, a lot of spectators in dangerous locations, especially at or following yumps.

Just in from Joost:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrRLYRnFydU
Cracking footage again Joost, your footage really captures the speed involved with the sport today, and those who stand in these dangerous places should watch your coverage!

[Rautiainen]

So, what happened with Thierry is SS16?
Any news about the accident and injured?

[MartijnS]

Only been able to go yesterday, so just saw 3 stages.
Still quite a nice day untill the news of the accident and the cancellation of Panzerplatte 2.
Dusty first stage, nice new part of the Panzerplatte after years of more or less the same area and a rainy fourth stage. So was able to get some nice shots in the short period haha.

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/Evans%201.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/Ostberg%201.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/Prokop%203.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/Ogier%203.jpg

http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/Hirvonen%201.jpg

More at our Facebook Page (http://facebook.com/rallymedia) or our Website (http://www.rallymedia.nl/images/2013/rallyedeutschland/rallyedeutschland.html) !

[A FONDO]

I think in this rally people go to dangerous places because the normal ones are ruined by the ridiculous marshal measures.

[NxOxT]

Very nice win...well deserved....

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSgog0RIUAAReC1.jpg

[JAM]

Great win to Dani. A deserved one. He fighted with Neuville, and yesterday he was faster that Neuville and Latvala before they crashed. Great rally to Neuville also.

A win of a replaced driver...

Dani reveals great dificults on Citroen. He drove a Mini and a Ford in one rally, and his perfomance was good. Only with the Citroens his perfomance stays unrecognizable.

And any news from the accident on last stage?

[Integrale]

And any news from the accident on last stage?
Organisation says the two spectators were in a forbidden area. But nothing about their situation.

[JAM]

Organisation says the two spectators were in a forbidden area. But nothing about their situation.

Thanks Integrale

[bassist]

I think in this rally people go to dangerous places because the normal ones are ruined by the ridiculous marshal measures.
Marshals have a crap job, in all countries, cant see how your comment is an excuse to put yourself in danger!

[Mirek]

Marshals have a crap job, in all countries, cant see how your comment is an excuse to put yourself in danger!

In fact he is right about many such cases. Too strict measures in official places make people move in much more dangerous spots where the people are difficult or impossible to control. The people naturally behave like that. I had a discussion about this few years back with one FIA safety delegate and he agreed. It has little to do with stage marshals but with overall safety plans of the event.

[bassist]

In fact he is right about many such cases. Too strict measures in official places make people move in much more dangerous spots where the people are difficult or impossible to control. The people naturally behave like that. I had a discussion about this few years back with one FIA safety delegate and he agreed. It has little to do with stage marshals but with overall safety plans of the event.
Think your both missing the point, would you go and watch in a dangerous place, having been moved by Marshals? At what point do individuals look after their own safety, and use common sense?

[Mirek]

Think your both missing the point, would you go and watch in a dangerous place, having been moved by Marshals? At what point do individuals look after their own safety, and use common sense?

You are replying to something what was not said. Read those posts again, please.

[bassist]

You are replying to something what was not said. Read those posts again, please.

Sorry Mirek- don't think I have- would you "go to a dangerous place"?

[hanjob11]

Hi,

you can see a lot of photos at rally3.de (http://www.rally3.de)

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2013_2189/rallye_deutschland_2527/mittwoch_2528/album_2_2530/deutschland2013_sdkh_006_20130821_1860293881.jpg





http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2013_2189/rallye_deutschland_2527/donnerstag_2531/album_1_2532/deutschland2013_wp1kh_024_20130822_1565556092.jpg



http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2013_2189/rallye_deutschland_2527/freitag_2533/album_1_2534/deutschland2013_wp3kh_142_20130823_1676578383.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2013_2189/rallye_deutschland_2527/donnerstag_2531/album_1_2532/deutschland2013_wp1kh_071_20130822_1253678828.jpg



http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2013_2189/rallye_deutschland_2527/samstag_2537/album_1_2538/deutschland2013_wp11kh_027_20130824_1637238979.jpg

Karsten

[Integrale]

Think your both missing the point, would you go and watch in a dangerous place, having been moved by Marshals? At what point do individuals look after their own safety, and use common sense?

Difficult discussion.

I always have the feeling that the people who are standing at ridiculously dangerous places (outside of fast corner, close to road after jump, close to a big concrete pole that can fall, etc.) are the ones who don't go to rallies often. They've never seen how a car behaves when the driver loses control. What can happen to the environment. Very unpredictable. I don't even like to stand in some of the 'safe' zones, because I find them too dangerous myself. Every spectator should look after its own risk management, really. But when the knowledge and the experience isn't there about what can happen during a crash, stupid things happen.

And that's when the marshalls are having a crap time. The spectators who don't know what they are doing, are just mad because they can't stand where they want to stand. Experienced spectators can't handle marshall instructions (is my experience), because they find that they KNOW what they're doing. And to be honest... I've met some marshalls who really don't know what they are doing themselves. Who place spectators in really dangerous spots.

In 2011 two people died in Condroz rally in Belgium. A Mitsubishi hit a bridge in a village, and the stones from the bridge were smashed into a 'safe' zone. That zone was at the outside of the corner. The casualties were part of the same family that lived in the neighbourhood, not people who go to rallies that often. In that same rally Freddy Loix got so mad at the behaviour of some of the spectators that he got out of his car to shout at them. With reason.

The only way to get spectators to behave, is unfortunately to cancel more stages during a rally. Then the group dynamic might start to work, and experienced spectators can give a little bit of social control, if you get what I mean. But that's really difficult. I drove in the CC-car (before the 000, 00 and 0) in Rallye Luxembourg, the year the father of Peter Bijvelds died there. The CC-car is the car that is only there to check the safety. So organisers should listen to it. I remember one stage where not all the marshalls were on their position, with 5 minutes before the start. There were spectators on the road. We advised the organisation to delay or cancel the stage, because it was just dangerous. But the start went on as planned.

On that stage, father Bijvelds died. But that's another story. I still think about that a lot.

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BShAOCUIUAAPMdE.jpg

[Mirek]

Sorry Mirek- don't think I have- would you "go to a dangerous place"?

That's exactly where You are missing the point - asking me about my personal choice. It's completely irrelevant what I would do. It's fact that people tend to move away from very strict places to anywhere they have more freedom. That's why super strict spectator areas make rally safety no better. Hope You understand now.

[bassist]

Difficult discussion.

I always have the feeling that the people who are standing at ridiculously dangerous places (outside of fast corner, close to road after jump, close to a big concrete pole that can fall, etc.) are the ones who don't go to rallies often. They've never seen how a car behaves when the driver loses control. What can happen to the environment. Very unpredictable. I don't even like to stand in some of the 'safe' zones, because I find them too dangerous myself. Every spectator should look after its own risk management, really. But when the knowledge and the experience isn't there about what can happen during a crash, stupid things happen.

And that's when the marshalls are having a crap time. The spectators who don't know what they are doing, are just mad because they can't stand where they want to stand. Experienced spectators can't handle marshall instructions (is my experience), because they find that they KNOW what they're doing. And to be honest... I've met some marshalls who really don't know what they are doing themselves. Who place spectators in really dangerous spots.

In 2011 two people died in Condroz rally in Belgium. A Mitsubishi hit a bridge in a village, and the stones from the bridge were smashed into a 'safe' zone. That zone was at the outside of the corner. The casualties were part of the same family that lived in the neighbourhood, not people who go to rallies that often. In that same rally Freddy Loix got so mad at the behaviour of some of the spectators that he got out of his car to shout at them. With reason.

The only way to get spectators to behave, is unfortunately to cancel more stages during a rally. Then the group dynamic might start to work, and experienced spectators can give a little bit of social control, if you get what I mean. But that's really difficult. I drove in the CC-car (before the 000, 00 and 0) in Rallye Luxembourg, the year the father of Peter Bijvelds died there. The CC-car is the car that is only there to check the safety. So organisers should listen to it. I remember one stage where not all the marshalls were on their position, with 5 minutes before the start. There were spectators on the road. We advised the organisation to delay or cancel the stage, because it was just dangerous. But the start went on as planned.

On that stage, father Bijvelds died. But that's another story. I still think about that a lot.

Yes, it is a very difficult discussion, but I still think we have a duty to ourselves to be safe. Yes- I agree if more stages were cancelled on the advice of the Spectator Sweeper Vehicle, perhaps people would take note ( oh, and I wonder how much alcohol plays a part in all of this?)

[Integrale]

And to finish that story about father Bijvelds...

When we were driving that particular stage we came upon a downhill straight in the forest. A big gap to the left, and to the right a bank with trees. In the roadbook there was a chicane drawn on that particular section. The organisation had painted on the road where the hay barrels should be. They stood there, by the side of the road, but they weren't in position. WITH 5 MINUTES TO SPARE!

So, the marshall there had just arrived, and he didn't know anything about the situation. We asked the organisation and helped him put the barrels into place. At that spot, Bijvelds went off the road, because that particular chicane wasn't in his notes. It wasn't in recce too, of course. Apparently, his roadbook also didn't have the word 'CHICANE' in it on that spot, like it had on other places where there was a chicane. But all the other drivers had the chicane in their notes...

It doesn't have much to do with spectator safety itself, but it shows that marshalls aren't faultless too. Or the organisation. That stage should've been cancelled.

[tommeke_B]

@bassist. Of course the marshalls are just doing what they are asked to do (some are friendly, others very unpolite), It's normal that spectators search other ways to see the cars (thats why they attend the rally). You And you cannot expect all spectators to be smart and know what risks there are... This issue is seen in many events.

[rallye-sport]

Last update-> Photos Rallye d'Allemagne 2013 (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/photos-rallye-dallemagne-2013/)


http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/allemagne-2013/aurelien_vialatte_37_0.jpg



http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/allemagne-2013/aurelien_vialatte_08_5.jpg



http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/allemagne-2013/aurelien_vialatte_30_0.jpg

[RAS007]

Sordo's victory reminds me of Catalunya in 1998 when TTE nominated Loix for manufacturer's points instead of Auriol. Perhaps Meeke was the motivation Dani needed? Just a thought.

[PLuto]

Sordo's victory reminds me of Catalunya in 1998 when TTE nominated Loix for manufacturer's points instead of Auriol. Perhaps Meeke was the motivation Dani needed? Just a thought.

No, it is easy because Loeb was not starting and Ogier with Latvala retired. Sordo was only "fastest from others"...

[Andre Oliveira]

For me, Sordo is much better than Meeke. Hope that he signs with Ford next year.

With same car (MINI) who was better?

[eestlane]

Mmmm. Two words. Rally Finland

[noel157]

Mmmm. One word. NORF

[eestlane]

Actually N.O.R.F

[eib1]

its impolite to refuse, when lady needs help! :mad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5okZk0tILoo

[Arska]

I'm really happy for Sordo, he finally got his victory and he really deserved it! This is surely gonna lift him higher in the eyes of Citroen-bosses :D

[MartijnS]

Auch..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP-VEZNext8

[A FONDO]

This is surely gonna lift him higher in the eyes of Citroen-bosses :D

He is not gonna score another win anytime soon

[makinen_fan]

Catalunya is not far away, and with the right circumstances (Loeb not there, if Ogier is off) he will have a good chance for another win. He was always quick there.

[JieM]

http://youtu.be/uxq8B_D_9Zk

[Andre Oliveira]

Photos eWRC (http://ewrc-results.com/foto.php?e=6539&t=ADAC-Rallye-Deutschland-2013)

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/pbe_sordo04.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/hol_img_4515rallye%20deutschland%202013%20jpeg.jpg http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/pbe_protasov01.jpg

[Rallying UK]

RALLYE DEUTSCHLAND: If you missed any of the action from Rally Deutschland 2013, here's a compilation of all best videos from each day of the rally:

Rallying UK | RALLYE DEUTSCHLAND 2013 - THE WHOLE STORY IS HERE! (http://bit.ly/13QyCto)

[noel157]

Actually N.O.R.F

That 4 words, you lose.. :)

[Hartusvuori]

http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ADAC%20Rallye%20Deutschland%202013/_MG_1965.JPG?img=small
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ADAC%20Rallye%20Deutschland%202013/_MG_2288.JPG?img=small
http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ADAC%20Rallye%20Deutschland%202013/_MG_2021.JPG?img=small

Last update on my friend's gallery: ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2013 (http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/ADAC+Rallye+Deutschland+2013/)

Fifth and last day at Rally Germany was relatively intense in good and bad. It was thrilling to witness the battle for the victory, seeing the splits and seeing the drivers in front of us. On Dhrontal 2, at the hairpins, we had a moment when Sordo and Neuville were going opposite directions at higher and lower roads. Gives good intensity. I would've hoped Neuville to win, to but nonetheless Sordo deserves his maiden victory very much. He wasn't the fastest driver in the event, Ogier, Latvala and Neuville also we faster, but Sordo was consistent at first and then Saturday afternoon he really started to race. Since then he had the pace that gave him the victory. And I'm sure Neuville's maiden victory isn't that far away. Also Elfyn Evans made good impression with good pace throughout the week. Also, I liked the Opel Adams somehow. Neat, small car and especially the zero car R2 had a good sound too. I'm not too aware of their program, but it wouldn't be bad for the sport if one more make makes into the R2 competition.

On Dhrontal 2 we were close to the place where the accident happened. I think it was a combination of driver error, spectator control error and bad judgement by the spectators too. I hope the injured are getting better. Two bad accidents in two of the most well-known places of the rally. There must be some fresh ideas for next year to prevent these.

It seems this was my last WRC event this year. One snow, one gravel, one tarmac. Soon it's winter again and time to make new plans.

[rallye-vid]

RIP

http://i42.tinypic.com/2yzlao7.jpg

And here is a pic from the accident today..

The 2 spectators were in the circle area..

http://i44.tinypic.com/b3n7t5.jpg

After the accident, the marshals didn't have anything to warn others drivers - no yellow flag, no warning triangle.
It also took a lot of time for the medics to get there....

[HaCo]

He is not gonna score another win anytime soon

It's not a lack of talent, they (Ford and Citroen) are a step behind right now. If Ogier has to push more, he will make a lot more mistakes like these.

[HaCo]

What now with Kubica? He did an awesome job, stayed on the road, excellent times. I would put him in a WRC at least for Spain, maybe even France.

Little mistake here:
Kubica SPIN - ADAC Rally Deutschland 2013 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5jzpRd7BqM)

[NikoP]

http://nikop.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2013/ADAC+Rallye+Deutschland/IMG_0400+copy.jpg/_img900.jpg

http://nikop.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2013/ADAC+Rallye+Deutschland/IMG_9842+copy.jpg/_img900.jpg

Full gallery now online: ADAC Rallye Deutschland (http://nikop.kuvat.fi/kuvat/2013/ADAC+Rallye+Deutschland/)

[tommeke_B]

What now with Kubica? He did an awesome job, stayed on the road, excellent times. I would put him in a WRC at least for Spain, maybe even France.

Little mistake here:
Kubica SPIN - ADAC Rally Deutschland 2013 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5jzpRd7BqM)

In my opinion he is far from there, in contrary to what many people here believe. Elfyn Evans was much more impressive than Kubica imo. Kubica his lines often looked strange, and on some places we were he lifted the throttle where top WRC (and S2000 like Paddon) drivers did not... From seeing the times compared to other WRC2 he must be the next champion, but we dont have any reference concerning the speed of the DS3 RRC. For me it looks better than Fiesta RRC for example (on both gravel and tarmac). I would like to see him in an R5 next year to see his true speed against other top drivers, hopefully in the European Championship.

[thuGG]

In my opinion he is far from there, in contrary to what many people here believe.

I don't think so, especially after reading what Matton says. For me it looks sooner than later. Also, Robert's ultimate goal is to get back to F1.

[mousti]

Big save from Cronin!

adac rallye deutschland 2013 passage limite limite !! by m@x - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSZIPZYSbeE)

[makinen_fan]

These spectators were very lucky!

[mousti]

Awesome atmosphere!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151783621883686&set=vb.755793685&type=2&theater

[Hartusvuori]

Stewards' decision on Neuville's excursion on Dhrontal 2: http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2013/static/191/Stewards_Decision_11.pdf

He apparently missed a bit of the route.

[MartijnS]

So lucky to get away after that mistake :D Big drop!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8WtfiCjtY

[Mirek]

After the accident, the marshals didn't have anything to warn others drivers - no yellow flag, no warning triangle.
It also took a lot of time for the medics to get there....

Just for Your information. Yellow flags are present only in radio points. Yellow flag is applied only on order of clerk of the stage and means neutralization of the stage for all crews to which a yellow flag is shown. Please don't confuse yellow flag use with that on circuits. It's different in rallying.

Regarding triangles it's impossible to give 1500 triangles to marshals. There are procedures what to do.

[bassist]

Big save from Cronin!

adac rallye deutschland 2013 passage limite limite !! by m@x - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSZIPZYSbeE)

Look at the guy on his chair at 0.07!!!!!!! Did he think he was watching a Crown Green Bowling Match?????? What a bloody dickhead- I rest my case!

[MartijnS]

These spectators were very lucky!

What about this one at the same spot.

crash adac rallye deutschland 2013 by m@x - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umNsereACAU)

Close too........

Also another video on that youtube account, with a dog being hit at the same spot...stupid people who take their dog to the stages.

[tommeke_B]

So a brief review from today. On the first run of Dhrontal we went to a hairpin right with nice braking. Was a good place, but in the forest and I expected it to be more muddy, and so did the drivers apparently, most took it easy. Evans was very nice to see, going sideways during the braking for the hairpin. Nothing more special to mention. On the second run we went to a fast left corner with a cut that was a bit higher than the road (see photos). Latvala and Neuville were 2 of the drivers who cutted quite deep causing them to go on 2 wheels, hard to believe they gained time with it (regarding how fast Sordo was there) but very spectacular for sure. :) The commitment of the drivers was crazy. Attacking so hard, we were thinking this morning "who doesn't crash wins". Thierry made a mistake, and Sordo finally has a well-deserved win. It's just great when there are battles like these, that's what we missed (a lot) in the last few years, let's hope we can see more of that in the future. :) Regarding the accident, I've always noticed that the huge braking areas are a bit too small in many events (France in particular), sometimes a row of people is some 10m straight after a hairpin. But if a car arrives at let's say 150kph, 10m is nothing (at least if there's nothing to protect them). Let's hope they learn from it and work towards the right direction. For me the WRONG direction is making public areas where spectators are far from the road, with a speaker and some "bradwurst" and beer... Organizers must understand that spectators want to decide what they want to see, rather than the organizers pointing some place and let them "pack" together making them 69 euros each... 100% safety is impossible to achieve, but I would prefer to see less "spectator areas", in change for more correct safety measures everywhere.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575200_702003359811553_400861295_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1175700_702000439811845_219862221_n.jpg

[liposh]

In my opinion he is far from there, in contrary to what many people here believe.
I also don´t agree with you. I saw his onboards from Rally Canarias and he was pushing really hard...I know Rally Canarias is only European championship (2nd league) but his speed was great there.

[tommeke_B]

I also don´t agree with you. I saw his onboards from Rally Canarias and he was pushing really hard...I know Rally Canarias is only European championship (2nd league) but his speed was great there.

What if Eurosport gave him all onboards from Kopecky last year, for Canarias? ;)

[makinen_fan]

For me the WRONG direction is making public areas where spectators are far from the road, with a speaker and some "bradwurst" and beer... Organizers must understand that spectators want to decide what they want to see, rather than the organizers pointing some place and let them "pack" together making them 69 euros each... 100% safety is impossible to achieve, but I would prefer to see less "spectator areas", in change for more correct safety measures everywhere.

Very well said, agree with you 100%

[svstock]

So lucky to get away after that mistake http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Big drop!
http://youtu.be/Qq8WtfiCjtY
Unbelievable what a luck to continue, and the steward decision was right, it wasnt cutting track. http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[txl]

Kubica his lines often looked strange, and on some places we were he lifted the throttle where top WRC (and S2000 like Paddon) drivers did not...
This is true, but it is only one side of the point. And the other side is that the clock never lies :)


In my opinion he is far from there, in contrary to what many people here believe.
With only 5 WRC rallies he cannot be too close, this is for sure. But I'm highly impressed by his results being first timer in rallies with so specific conditions as Finland and Germany. This is very promising, in case he stays for longer in WRC.

[dimviii]

have we got any footage with Neuvilles mistake at power stage?

[wrc1600]

This is true, but it is only one side of the point. And the other side is that the clock never lies :)


With only 5 WRC rallies he cannot be too close, this is for sure. But I'm highly impressed by his results being first timer in rallies with so specific conditions as Finland and Germany. This is very promising, in case he stays for longer in WRC.

Very well said, to be precise 5 WRC rallies (all first time drive) and 3 wins, 1 runner up in the class, and that's that.

[makinen_fan]

So lucky to get away after that mistake :D Big drop!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq8WtfiCjtY

This is it dimvii

[Kielder]

You don't have to go home now, Dani ;) .

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/9591568380_e2e6165d8d_c.jpg

[dimviii]

This is it dimvii

thanks mate.Very lucky he finished with such an exit speed.

[Kielder]

Somehow, Sordo was already at home. Just hear...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqugAhpi7KE

[makinen_fan]

thanks mate.Very lucky he finished with such an exit speed.

yes very lucky indeed

[A FONDO]

lucky

:D

[stefanvv]

have we got any footage with Neuvilles mistake at power stage?

here is the onboard, totally lost the car there - WRC ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2013: Extra news ::: Free Sport Live Streams / Videos (http://www.laola1.tv/en/int/motorsports/fia-world-rally-championship/wrc-adac-rallye-deutschland-2013-extra-news/video/492-3354-130730.html)

[stefanvv]

To be honest I also expected more from Kubica in Germany. He was driving somewhat like on gravel Rally.

[Mirek]

To be honest I also expected more from Kubica in Germany. He was driving somewhat like on gravel Rally.

What more? He won and didn't make any mistake like most of more experienced guys.

[A.F.F.]

Congrats to Sordo. :up:

[stefanvv]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_qh0zdl6CU

[stefanvv]

What more? He won and didn't make any mistake like most of more experienced guys.

Yes, he did won, but I got used to better asphalt rallies for him. Too much sideways here on lot of places.

[Jarek Z]

In my opinion he is far from there, in contrary to what many people here believe. Elfyn Evans was much more impressive than Kubica imo. Kubica his lines often looked strange, and on some places we were he lifted the throttle where top WRC (and S2000 like Paddon) drivers did not...

Now that is a strange comment! If Paddon's driving was so good, why were his stage times so bad? With such a great experience in WRC Paddon finished 4 minutes behind Kubica. How can he be any reference for you? ;)


I would like to see him in an R5 next year to see his true speed against other top drivers, hopefully in the European Championship.

That would be a dream. But I think Citroen would prefer to have Kubica in WRC rather than ERC.

Congratulations Robert and Maciek!!! :up:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/s720x720/1157727_562601757131174_958962816_n.jpg

[Barreis]

To be honest I also expected more from Kubica in Germany. He was driving somewhat like on gravel Rally.
He finished 5th with RRC car...

[Mirek]

Now that is a strange comment! If Paddon's driving was so good, why were his stage times so bad? With such a great experience in WRC Paddon finished 4 minutes behind Kubica. How can he be any reference for you? ;)

To be fair Paddon lost 2 minutes due to loose alternator belt and also the atmospheric car is probably slower.

[Jarek Z]

Yes, he did won, but I got used to better asphalt rallies for him. Too much sideways here on lot of places.

In the interview that Kubica made after the rally he said that to him it wasn't a proper tarmac rally. There was much more mud and dirt on the road than he expected and much more than in the Italian and French rallies that he is used to.

And driving sideways is not a bad thing at all :D

[tommeke_B]

Now that is a strange comment! If Paddon's driving was so good, why were his stage times so bad? With such a great experience in WRC Paddon finished 4 minutes behind Kubica. How can he be any reference for you? ;)


Your comment is strange, maybe you didn't read what I commented on... I said to think Kubica is far from there (meaning level of a works driver), considering what I've seen from him (not the stage-times behind a computer screen, but driving style). Of course what caught my eye is only a very small percentage of the SS kms that have been run... Kubica is a fast driver for sure, but how fast??? We'll only know if there is a proper driver in equal (which means in this case same, so DS3 RRC) car in equal conditions... ;) Also I compared the driving style to top WRC cars AND S2000 cars like Paddon, so not Paddon only... ;)

About Paddon, his stage-times were not all that bad. He did several fastest times in WRC2, and again, there is no real reference for the cars compared to each other...

[Jarek Z]

To be fair Paddon lost 2 minutes due to loose alternator belt

Now that is an attempt to look for an excuse :D

There were 15 stages and Kubica was faster than Paddon on 11 of them. Did Paddon's belt fall off 11 times? :D

[rallyfun]

What about this fact, Kubica was 10s faster through Moselland 2 than Ogier last year? Same length, same direction of the stage.

[faateris]

This is WRC or what? This is safety???? There could be much more sad news....
If this rally stay like this next year, better calendar of 2014' without Deutschland.....
Sorry, people stupid, organizer stupid...... :mad:

[Fiat-131-Abarth]

What about this fact, Kubica was 10s faster through Moselland 2 than Ogier last year? Same length, same direction of the stage.
Compare Kubica to the "biggest german talent since Röhrl". He destroyed Wiegand completley. Btw when was it the last time, that a driver became 5th overall in his first tarmac WRC round and his fifth WRC rally?

[stefanvv]

In the interview that Kubica made after the rally he said that to him it wasn't a proper tarmac rally. There was much more mud and dirt on the road than he expected and much more than in the Italian and French rallies that he is used to.

And driving sideways is not a bad thing at all :D

I guess mud is not according his driving style ;)

[stefanvv]

Compare Kubica to the "biggest german talent since Röhrl". He destroyed Wiegand completley. Btw when was it the last time, that a driver became 5th overall in his first tarmac WRC round and his fifth WRC rally?

Which WRC is this for Evans?

[Jarek Z]

Your comment is strange, maybe you didn't read what I commented on... I said to think Kubica is far from there (meaning level of a works driver), considering what I've seen from him

I don't have enough knowledge to estimate how far Kubica is, so I'd leave that for some rally experts. But do you really think that it requires such great skills to become a factory driver these days?


About Paddon, his stage-times were not all that bad. He did several fastest times in WRC2

Maybe sometimes it is better to watch a rally in front of a computer screen ;) because as far as I know Paddon won 3 or 4 stages in the whole rally or even less ;)

Thanks for your comment though! I always respect your opinions and am happy to be discussing with you.

[rallyfun]

Which WRC is this for Evans?

I think at least 11, he is the winner of last season JWRC.

[Allyc85]

UK TV coverage is on ITV4,Tuesday at 6pm. As much as I appreciate ITV stepping in and taking on the coverage I wish they would put it on at a consistent time!

[tommeke_B]

I think these are current "real" factory drivers (meaning not paying millions for a seat) : Ogier - Latvala - Mikkelsen - Sordo - Hirvonen - Neuville - Ostberg (- maybe Novikov?). Yes, I think he is not at their level yet. He may be there, but not yet... But I hope we'll find out soon :)

I don't think it is better to watch it in front of a computer screen. There you don't see the difference in acceleration between the DS3 RRC and a S2000, especially when exiting a very slow hairpin, like there are so many in Germany. ;) Only Kubica and Tsjoen (Valais) have been driving the DS3 RRC so far. In Valais last year Tsjoen was easily faster than others too (except for his crash of course). So again, we dont have any reference to compare, but Paddon and Evans looked better than Kubica in the fast sections. :)

[Jarek Z]

Compare Kubica to the "biggest german talent since Röhrl". He destroyed Wiegand completley.

Did someone really say something like that about Wiegand?

[rallye-vid]

Regarding triangles it's impossible to give 1500 triangles to marshals. There are procedures what to do.

90% of the marshals are there with their own cars. And there was a lot of cars.

After ~5 cars passed the place without getting really slower, the CO of Aksa got the triangle out of the crashed car and gave it to one marshal.

[jolle1982]

Our Best of Video of the rally germany are online!!!

WRC ADAC Rally Deutschland 2013 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahnrcaBoG6A)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahnrcaBoG6A

[Jarek Z]

I don't think it is better to watch it in front of a computer screen.

Of course it is better to watch it live! I was only joking at the fact that you didn't know Paddon's stage times :)

Thanks for your opinion.

[Mirek]

After ~5 cars passed the place without getting really slower, the CO of Aksa got the triangle out of the crashed car and gave it to one marshal.

For what do You think they have it in car? That's the reason.

[rallye-vid]

So, the shocked Co and Driver have to think about everything? Not really ....

[wrc1600]

So, the shocked Co and Driver have to think about everything? Not really ....

As far as I know it is their responsibility, same as displaying OK or SOS sign.

[Cahuna]

I don't have enough knowledge to estimate how far Kubica is, so I'd leave that for some rally experts. But do you really think that it requires such great skills to become a factory driver these days?



Maybe sometimes it is better to watch a rally in front of a computer screen ;) because as far as I know Paddon won 3 or 4 stages in the whole rally or even less ;)

Thanks for your comment though! I always respect your opinions and am happy to be discussing with you.

The performance between the different cars makes a large difference. Kubica and Evans were driving turbocharged vehicles which have more torque, very useful when exiting slow corners. Paddon was driving a S2000 class vehicle which has no turbocharger and so is at a disadvantage on every tight corner. The stages that Paddon won were all ones where the weather was changeable and outright power was less important - in some ways changeable weather/road conditions are the best test as the better drivers will be able to adapt more quickly and often outperform those driving faster cars.

In rallying the stage times never tell the entire story. Every different car will have its strengths and weaknesses and often a slow driver in a fast car will beat a fast driver in a slow car. Look at Kris Meeke - last year driving the Mini he was slower than the Citroens, this year driving a Citroen he was one of the fastest drivers. Was he suddenly a better driver this year than last year? No, the car was faster. And so it is here, the Skoda engine (being non-turbocharged) makes it a slower car over twisty roads than the Citroen and Ford.

I will stay that Kubica has been extremely impressive with how quickly he has adapted to rallying (not that I expected anything else from a driver of his skill levels) and I really hope that he stays in the championship and continues to improve.

[wrc1600]

What about this fact, Kubica was 10s faster through Moselland 2 than Ogier last year? Same length, same direction of the stage.

And he did second pass 30 s faster than first one.

[rallysupportnl]

Watch here full highlights from WRC Rally Germany 2013:


http://youtu.be/PSL1QFdCFUc

[sollitt]

If Paddon's driving was so good, why were his stage times so bad? With such a great experience in WRC Paddon finished 4 minutes behind Kubica. Kubica and Evans both did a fantastic job. But you need to get some perspective.
Paddon's times were fine and at times showed that he could have had the winning pace despite his car's huge disadvantage.The turbo charged cars of Kubica & Evans are at a significant performance advantage which should not be forgotten.
Also you need to consider the strategy when he found himself 2 minutes down on those in front and 2 minutes up on those behind. Do you push hard in a hopeless attempt to make up the time, risking both car and position, on a surface you're not familiar with and don't like, or do you settle into a comfortable pace and bag the points? Paddon is mature and professional enough to make the sensible decision. There's another rally next month.

The sad thing about WRC2 is the variety of car and the variance of performance that is now included making it very confusing for spectators and no doubt frustrating for competitors.
But once again, good performances here by the RRC & R5 cars suggest what a dynamic championship we'd have if R5 was the WRC formula.

[Jarek Z]

I will stay that Kubica has been extremely impressive with how quickly he has adapted to rallying (not that I expected anything else from a driver of his skill levels) and I really hope that he stays in the championship and continues to improve.

Thanks for your opinion Cahuna! I consider Paddon a very good driver, so I'm very happy that Kubica managed to be faster than him. But you are right - sometimes stage times don't tell the whole story.

And as far as F1 skill levels are concerned, well you never know - Raikkonen's skills are probably better than Kubica's, but his achievements in rallying were not very impressive.

[Juha_Koo]

90% of the marshals are there with their own cars. And there was a lot of cars.

After ~5 cars passed the place without getting really slower, the CO of Aksa got the triangle out of the crashed car and gave it to one marshal.


German marshalls are very good at placing the triangles, just ask Ostberg......

[Barreis]

So can somebody who saw Kubica's right hand say what are the possibilities for him to be back in F1 car...

[Jarek Z]

Kubica and Evans both did a fantastic job. But you need to get some perspective.
Paddon's times were fine and at times showed that he could have had the winning pace despite his car's huge disadvantage.The turbo charged cars of Kubica & Evans are at a significant performance advantage which should not be forgotten.


Is it really so? I think it is possible to compete against RRC with S2000 car. Have you taken a look at the results in this year's European Championship? Have a look:
Standings - ERC European Rally Championship - Eurosport (http://www.fiaerc.com/standings)

Kopecky, Bouffier and Breen are constantly faster than Kubica and his RRC.

[Carlo]

90% of the marshals are there with their own cars. And there was a lot of cars.

After ~5 cars passed the place without getting really slower, the CO of Aksa got the triangle out of the crashed car and gave it to one marshal.

The Co-driver or Driver should have placed their triangle out to give warning to the following competitors as soon as they got out of their car as it a regulatory requirement of rallying

[dimviii]

its not clear yet how faster is a rrc vs a s2000 car,dont to mention a r5 car.We have seen very different results among them(Basso,Kopecky,Loix etc)
Paddon had a very good result considering his car-testing-experience at asphalt,and Kubica had a perfect rally at a rally with difficult conditions that asphalt wasnt like in Spain smooth.Imho at Spain he will be much faster from his competitiors.

[bt52b]

These spectators were very lucky!

Slight understatement :eek:

[thuGG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23C4RxniQz4

[eestlane]

Is it really so? I think it is possible to compete against RRC with S2000 car. Have you taken a look at the results in this year's European Championship? Have a look:
Standings - ERC European Rally Championship - Eurosport (http://www.fiaerc.com/standings)

Kopecky, Bouffier and Breen are constantly faster than Kubica and his RRC.


Kubica and Evans both did a fantastic job. But you need to get some perspective.
Paddon's times were fine and at times showed that he could have had the winning pace despite his car's huge disadvantage.The turbo charged cars of Kubica & Evans are at a significant performance advantage which should not be forgotten.
Also you need to consider the strategy when he found himself 2 minutes down on those in front and 2 minutes up on those behind. Do you push hard in a hopeless attempt to make up the time, risking both car and position, on a surface you're not familiar with and don't like, or do you settle into a comfortable pace and bag the points? Paddon is mature and professional enough to make the sensible decision. There's another rally next month.

The sad thing about WRC2 is the variety of car and the variance of performance that is now included making it very confusing for spectators and no doubt frustrating for competitors.
But once again, good performances here by the RRC & R5 cars suggest what a dynamic championship we'd have if R5 was the WRC formula.

I agree. Paddon is not a mega-super-fast driver. He is fast, yes but Kubica is just faster on tarmac. If we go to Portugal with the same crews that were competing here in Germany then Kubica would not finish first. Paddon needs some experience before he goes into a WRC car. A year or two in Skoda factory team in ERC. And i dont think Paddon had a HUGE disadvantage with his car. Yes, the S2000 is slower but its not dramatic.

[Mirek]

Is it really so? I think it is possible to compete against RRC with S2000 car. Have you taken a look at the results in this year's European Championship? Have a look:
Standings - ERC European Rally Championship - Eurosport (http://www.fiaerc.com/standings)

Kopecky, Bouffier and Breen are constantly faster than Kubica and his RRC.

Again the results don't tell the whole story. Robert was faster than Jan and Craig most of the time but it was technical problems or his mistakes what put him behind them. When I spoke with Pavel Dresler he told me he is sure the DS3 RRC is faster car, especially in slippery conditions where traction is needed.

[sollitt]

I agree. Paddon is not a mega-super-fast driver. He is fast, yes but Kubica is just faster on tarmac. If we go to Portugal with the same crews that were competing here in Germany then Kubica would not finish first. Paddon needs some experience before he goes into a WRC car. A year or two in Skoda factory team in ERC. And i dont think Paddon had a HUGE disadvantage with his car. Yes, the S2000 is slower but its not dramatic.Funnily enough when the competition proper started on day 2 Paddon aced the first 3 stages. So I'm not sure where you draw your conclusions from. Sadly at lunch on Friday the writing was already on the wall and it became a different ball game.
Yes, an S2000 car can compete with the turbo versions in the right hands. Paddon showed that. But that does not alter the fact that the turbo cars enjoy a significant advantage.

[Leon]

Good morning to all. could not follow the rally but just finish reading this thread. thanks for all the info. reading it is better than any report...
Some general thoughts about the drivers:
Happy for the once called wonderboy Sordo after gaining his first WRC win.
However I cannot explain why I remember the pictures of Puras sole WRC win in Corsica when I see him.
Hope this win is not his last as well as his last year as a WRC driver.

On the other hand congratulations to Neuville. I watch him live a couple of times, I enjoyed his style (in IRC Cyprus 2011 it was McRae style, crazy, spectacular drive) and I had big expectations of him but what he did at Citroen last year and at the beginning of this year with Ford, made me think that he will end up as Thiry – Duval – Loix……So I’m glad about his resurgence and I hope he becomes an Ogier thread. The WRC needs that. I quess his biggest “problem” is where to go next year.

About unguided missile Novikov only one comment…bring Giraudet back…

So Ogier can go off without pressure from Loeb… good for the WRC if this becomes a habit :)
Latvala. Fed up with him…. If only Paasonen/Mokkonen had the opportunities he is getting… (ok this is too personal :) )
Hirvonen. Again a good 2nd , point scorer driver waiting for others mistakes….
Ostberg: bring on 2014 asap
Kubica: really wondering what he can do on asphalt with a WRC
Evans: better than his father?
And some final thoughts/questions. Is Ford an easier car to drive than the DS3 or is it just the environment in the two teams that affects the psychology and thus the performance of the drivers?
What is the thing/things that Latvala - Novikov still missing to be more consistent and have more results – less crashes? Is it just psychology, concentration ability?
At the beginning of their WRC careers Ogier as well as Neuville were fast but erratic. What was the change that made them “turn the corner” with their performance? Different notes? Psychology?

[zajic]

So can somebody who saw Kubica's right hand say what are the possibilities for him to be back in F1 car...

I met Robert some years ago in Czech Republic, so on this years Tour de Corse I just wanted to say him hello. We spent several minutes talking and he had his right hand in his pocket all the time. At the end I asked him to sign me some photos I had and he also shook my hand. I don´t think this hand will drive F1 again. He almost doesn´t move with his wrist, it was in some fixed position all the time. But I don´t know if it could be better with time or if it is a final state of his rehabilitation.

[Jafry]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2013/1186/1186_adac_rally_deutschland_2013_ec34036426.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2013/1186/1186_adac_rally_deutschland_2013_86ef831aa5.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2013/1186/1186_adac_rally_deutschland_2013_a6737dc511.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2013/1186/1186_adac_rally_deutschland_2013_4610cc4cf4.jpg

http://www.rally-mania.cz/fotogalerie/2013/1186/1186_adac_rally_deutschland_2013_38ca9988f4.jpg

More photos HERE (http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1186)

[Xsara Fan]

So can somebody who saw Kubica's right hand say what are the possibilities for him to be back in F1 car...

My friend (rally-driver) meet Kubica during Swedish Rally 2013 and said to me: "His right hand doesn`t work at all! I don`t understand how he drive!"

[Barreis]

Guys, thanks for info... :)

[thuGG]

Yes, on the videos his hand doesn't look good. But somehow he manges to drive rally cars without problems. He said some time ago that he could drive F1 car on most of the tracks, only the tight ones would be a problem, like Monaco. Also he was testing for Mercedes in their F1 simulator a few times and I believe it has real size cockpit.

[rallyfun]

My friend (rally-driver) meet Kubica during Swedish Rally 2013 and said to me: "His right hand doesn`t work at all! I don`t understand how he drive!"

Your friend knows nothing about his hand, I had opportunity to speak to Robert and Maciek several times, I asked them to sign photos and Robert had no problem with opening marker or sign them. Apart from that if you remember in rally Portugal he had to change gears using right hand and operate hand break plus I don't understand people who think it's possible to drive rally car with just one hand. Lets finish this disgraceful and pointless discussion, it makes normal people sick.

[mousti]

Another video of Thierry Neuville going on the limit! :D

Thierry Neuville on the limit - Pure Sound - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgaPtKXVbPY)

[gianni123]

Video WRC Rally Germany

WRC Rally Germany - 2013 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0D8HvqDWNw)

[gabryere]

sin for accidents, good rally as always

[svstock]

Stewards' decision on Neuville's excursion on Dhrontal 2: http://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/docs/wrc/2013/static/191/Stewards_Decision_11.pdf

He apparently missed a bit of the route.
i got it right?
http://www.upload.ee/image/3539449/ss16Neuvilleexcursion.bmp

[Kielder]

I was trying to find it out on the GE too, just for curiosity. We reached the same conclusion :) . Obviously, it was impossible for them to return to the route at the same point where they went out, so they weren't punished. It looks like there is some kind of path there, which explains that the car didn't have many damages.

http://i41.tinypic.com/254vr7q.png

[vino_93]

I enjoyed this rally ! It was particulary interesting to follow it live during second way of Stein & Wein, when Latvala passed with troubles ... then Neuville ... and then was Sordo, without problems ! Spanish fans around me were excited ! Congrats to Sordo, nice victory. He perfectly took advantage of rain, and did no mistake !

Here are my pictures from National and Historic cars :
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_national_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20219.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_national_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20526.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_national_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20829.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_national_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20j3%20332.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_national_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20317.jpg

eWRC-results.com - archive and online results from WRC and rally (http://www.ewrc-results.com/foto.php?e=11117&t=ADAC-Rallye-Deutschland-National-2013)

Adam Cup guys were really impressived, really different from DS3 R1 Cup, boring.
and orange BMW were crazy ...

[svstock]

I was trying to find it out on the GE too, just for curiosity. We reached the same conclusion :) . Obviously, it was impossible for them to return to the route at the same point where they went out, so they weren't punished. It looks like there is some kind of path there, which explains that the car didn't have many damages.

shame there's no street-view, but this is the place. extremely lucky to find this path and no serious damage to car.

[Rallyper]

Good morning to all. could not follow the rally but just finish reading this thread. thanks for all the info. reading it is better than any report...
Some general thoughts about the drivers:
Happy for the once called wonderboy Sordo after gaining his first WRC win.
However I cannot explain why I remember the pictures of Puras sole WRC win in Corsica when I see him.
Hope this win is not his last as well as his last year as a WRC driver.

On the other hand congratulations to Neuville. I watch him live a couple of times, I enjoyed his style (in IRC Cyprus 2011 it was McRae style, crazy, spectacular drive) and I had big expectations of him but what he did at Citroen last year and at the beginning of this year with Ford, made me think that he will end up as Thiry – Duval – Loix……So I’m glad about his resurgence and I hope he becomes an Ogier thread. The WRC needs that. I quess his biggest “problem” is where to go next year.

About unguided missile Novikov only one comment…bring Giraudet back…

So Ogier can go off without pressure from Loeb… good for the WRC if this becomes a habit :)
Latvala. Fed up with him…. If only Paasonen/Mokkonen had the opportunities he is getting… (ok this is too personal :) )
Hirvonen. Again a good 2nd , point scorer driver waiting for others mistakes….
Ostberg: bring on 2014 asap
Kubica: really wondering what he can do on asphalt with a WRC
Evans: better than his father?
And some final thoughts/questions. Is Ford an easier car to drive than the DS3 or is it just the environment in the two teams that affects the psychology and thus the performance of the drivers?
What is the thing/things that Latvala - Novikov still missing to be more consistent and have more results – less crashes? Is it just psychology, concentration ability?
At the beginning of their WRC careers Ogier as well as Neuville were fast but erratic. What was the change that made them “turn the corner” with their performance? Different notes? Psychology?

I agree on most of your points.

But - one small thought: How would you have described Neuville if he´d been stuck after the off on the last stage?

[rallye-vid]

Just playing around.. ;)

http://i41.tinypic.com/2inqjk.jpg

[noel157]

Sordo not safe:

"Citroen World Rally team boss Yves Matton warned that victory in Germany might not be enough to secure Dani Sordo's future."

Citroen warns Dani Sordo future not secured by Rally Germany win - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109505)

[stefanvv]

Sordo not safe:

"Citroen World Rally team boss Yves Matton warned that victory in Germany might not be enough to secure Dani Sordo's future."

Citroen warns Dani Sordo future not secured by Rally Germany win - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109505)

Of course not. If VW weren't out, he and Neuville would fight for podium only

[dimviii]

same place with Novikovs exit



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhKw9_icNIg&feature=youtu.be

[dimviii]

different camera from Neuvills exit

http://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-prn2/v/1065128_212706492229008_2084925867_n.mp4?oh=660f24 888859a1cefa41a752e65cfb6b&oe=521CC1DE&__gda__=137 7722617_a924abfd362ff30be2e6c7db6cf4069f

[dimviii]

Sordos papa with Neuvilles papa,before the fight.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSgvI_MIMAAJ9fY.jpg:large

[EightGear]

Sordo arrives on the airport.

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads7/521bad515c3d4/521bad51542e7-sordo.jpg

[Kielder]

Sordos papa with Neuvilles papa,before the fight.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSgvI_MIMAAJ9fY.jpg:large

Their sons, after the fight:

https://sphotos-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1237968_10151571321755754_807338307_n.jpg

Though the photo that sums up both Sordos' feelings is this one:

https://sphotos-b-mad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557410_10201019710908890_1270996611_n.jpg

[Kielder]

Sordo arrives on the airport.

http://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads7/521bad515c3d4/521bad51542e7-sordo.jpg

It's better to hear than to see how a long waiting comes to a happy ending...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=653599061318951

[vino_93]

My pictures from WRC Rally :

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20636.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20j3%20076.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20316.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20j3%20415.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tbr_rallye%20allemagne%202013%20027.jpg

and more here : http://www.ewrc-results.com/search_photo.php?season=0&event=6539&autor=277&typ=&driver=0&codriver=0&car=0

[dimviii]

what a mess...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMd10zZsdKo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Franky]

It was a very enjoyable rally as such but the sad event at Panzerplatte and the Dhrontal 2 accident cast a dark shadow on the rally.

From my point of view the safety was a huge problem this year. At times marshals just didn't seem to give a sh%t. On Blankenheim there was one guy filming next to the media triangle inside a right hairpin. Not to mention the marshals car was parked pretty much at the place where you'd end if you missed the braking. On Veldenz 1 there was one safety who didn't allow me to be on a short straight between to hairpins and a bit further into the stage there was a place where people were drinking wine and standing max 10m from the line the cars took through the hairpin. And on Panzer 1 one of the guys with the blue tabards suggest the yellow ones that spectators are in a wrong place. The guys basically answered him "eh.." and continued to watch the rally from their chairs.

Of course there were good marshals also.

But the really annoying thing was the lack of proper rally radio. Pretty much next to none info shared on the rally. E.g. we heard that Panzer 2 is canceled from the safety's when they realized we were discussing which was the best viewing spot there. And then we ended up telling others there that the stage won't be run. And some short news flashes in English would be great also, since everyone who attends the rally doesn't speak German 100%.

Other than the safety issues and the lack of info, I enjoyed the rally a lot. And the steep hillsides of Mosel was nice training (Especially the Z7 on Veldenz stage).

[bunnings]

Highlights WRC Rally Germany 2013 - Bunnings Video

includes big jumps, Keith Cronin´s scary moment, Simone Campedelli crash & small off Al Attiyah


http://youtu.be/fCfHSc-Rm-Y

[tommeke_B]

My complete album online on rally-image.be: ADAC Rallye Deutschland (Tom Buyse) - rally-image.be (http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/)

http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/004.jpg

http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/079.jpg

http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/029.jpg

http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/025.jpg

http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/068.jpg

[dimviii]

Tom some photos are excellent! give the ''speed'' perfect!

[Mintexmemory]

Very enjoyable trip to Rallye Deutschland (but not perfect, also very sobering following Panzerplatte news). Full reflections in a day or so.

[Markko]

Welcome to see our gallery of ADAC Rallye Deustchland 2013. We will add more WRC photos within few days... now mostly Moselland pictures of historic, service photos etc.
Tango Team (http://www.tangoteam.com/)

Sad news we got on Saturday and Sunday.

[Eddie1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY4ZQ6fpabc
Czech Rally Videos on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/czechrallyvideos)

[JieM]

Best of Thierry Neuville & Nicolas Gilsoul:


http://youtu.be/qhHXUYOZjQM

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P_swZcvEqGc

[dimviii]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1237337_619459938076259_1127374629_o.jpghttp://horizonrallye.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/img_7228.jpg?w=1000&h=http://imageshack.us/a/img823/8381/pxwr.jpg

[dimviii]

http://rallyeshots00.livehost.fr/Joomla_17/cache/widgetkit/gallery/170/ADAC2013_Es3_26-85c12b9d03.jpghttp://rallyeshots00.livehost.fr/Joomla_17/cache/widgetkit/gallery/170/ADAC2013_Es3_27-6ee8833b38.jpg

[dimviii]

http://rallyeshots00.livehost.fr/Joomla_17/cache/widgetkit/gallery/170/ADAC2013_Es3_46-d173fc599a.jpghttp://rallyeshots00.livehost.fr/Joomla_17/cache/widgetkit/gallery/170/ADAC2013_Es3_47-253790c71d.jpg

[stefanvv]

Very nice:
http://rally-image.be/foto/0380/images/040.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=212724375560553

[MartijnS]

Nice corner :D

Funny BTW, on Twitter everybody is referring to the @WRCGermany account as an official one.
Its not, it's an account of some Dutch guy who just uses it mainly to spam his own videos :)

[dimviii]

look at the man with the blue shirt....
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tkl_deutschland-2013-0131.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tkl_deutschland-2013-0106.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tkl_deutschland-2013-1387.jpghttp://www.ewrc.cz/images/2013/photos/adac_rallye_deutschland_2013/tkl_deutschland-2013-1400.jpg

[Lisa Statham]

These are great! You got an awesome view! The back of the Qatar looks like its been through some damage :P

[Lisa Statham]

I thought this event was really fantastic. Definitely more eventful that previous events. Maybe it's because Ogier had to retire. But I really thought everyone was fighting hard for the podium. It was great to See Neuville up there and I'm really happy for Sordo! One of my favourite events this year!

[bunnings]

Dani Sordo takes his 1st WRC victory:


http://youtu.be/4oJdUzMoBI0

[Blitzerflitzer]

look at the man with the Blue Shirt

watch your post 1173 and 1174, these are the photos of the man with the blue shirt. :eek:

[dimviii]

watch your post 1173 and 1174, these are the photos of the man with the blue shirt. :eek:

yes probably must be him.

[tommeke_B]

No, those photos were clearly taken ON the wall. ;) The guy with the blue shirt was next to some stairs so he had a place to "hide" in case of an accident. But he didn't have the right reflex for it anyway... Also forcing all people standing behind him to take more dangerous positions if they want to see something...

[Integrale]

Haha! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP7oja2mOWg&feature=player_embedded#t=119

From 1.40 onwards..

Neuville: Ah, juste la dernière droite. Le rest (vous) pourrez à fond. (Oh, just the last right. The rest you can go flat.)
Ogier: Ah oui. Mais il y a une droite, je ne sais pas. (Yes. But there's one right, I don't know.)
Neuville: Si si. Moi, je freine pas. (Sure. But me, I don't brake.)

Hope they can have lots of fights.

[dupanton]

Haha! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP7oja2mOWg&feature=player_embedded#t=119

From 1.40 onwards..

Neuville: Ah, juste la dernière droite. Le rest (vous) pourrez à fond. (Oh, just the last right. The rest you can go flat.)
Ogier: Ah oui. Mais il y a une droite, je ne sais pas. (Yes. But there's one right, I don't know.)
Neuville: Si si. Moi, je freine pas. (Sure. But me, I don't brake.)

Hope they can have lots of fights.

Great capture! The question is: is it a mind game, or does it actually pass flat out :p

[millbrook]

a few of my pics :

http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/5984/g364.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/547/g364.jpg/)
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8391/qxd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/qxd.jpg/)
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4579/sbi0.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/sbi0.jpg/)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7783/fpnr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/90/fpnr.jpg/)
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7993/86j6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/86j6.jpg/)

[Mintexmemory]

Still collecting my thoughts and impressions (just takes too much time to catalogue and edit the images!! Still have to post my 35mm films to the lab)
Here is JML at Graftschaft on the Friday morning. Can someone post a sticky on how to upload multiple pics of a large size (tech-challenged dinosaur at work!!)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7394/9611259251_ca5bf8b6e0_c.jpg

[darkstar]

a little late but anyhow, here´s my short video from deutschland 2013, unfortunately only from friday:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncX_6fhiv2w

[bunnings]

http://youtu.be/JCp0c-XR57k

[HD] Mads Ostberg flying more than 40 metres - Rally Germany 2013 - BUN - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCp0c-XR57k)

[cytrus]

Mads Ostberg in his style :)
Fantastic shot

[dimviii]

some photos i like
http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/08/30/130830095124306645.jpghttps://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/s720x720/1011635_10151649922595678_1676317321_n.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img202/8444/9i14.jpg

[dimviii]

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/6629/fbrp.jpghttp://www.forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2013/post-362-0-59028700-1377881620.jpghttp://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/08/30/130830100343174965.jpg

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BS1e9h9IIAAZxNx.jpg:large

[ThomasS]

Nice review from Hayden Paddon

https://vimeo.com/73451692

[Ide]

Here are some of my shots about shakedown (http://www.ilkansivu.net/ADAC_Rallye_Deutschland_2013).

We arrived there too late so many top drivers has already done their tests. We tried to get tickets from the first marshall but he asked us to go back to Konz. But there weren't tickets so we drove to HQ in Tier. But there we would get only weekend rally passes and we needed just ticket for shakedown. So we drove back to other end of the shakedown where I finally managed to get the ticket. It would be more easy in rally Finland. :)

[MartijnS]

Haha, that sounds like a terrible morning drive :D

[cytrus]

WRC Rally Deutschland - best moments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwKsg-ZpK7c&feature=c4-overview&list=UUU5vS82JqhZWBYR3yrCvjcQ

[dimviii]

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3679/9587244146_6999385a1f_b.jpg

[tommeke_B]

Off-topic: @Dimviii, please clear your inbox. ;)

[dimviii]

done Tom.

[Salist]

Our photos from Rally Deutschland:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.565571690146973.1073741832.494018543968955&type=1

[kober]

Not sure if this has been posted already, but full (3x25 min) event highlights are now available on World Rally Championship - Video (http://www.wrc.com/video/) and also with the following links: -> Friday Highlights Full Version <- (http://www.laola1.tv/en/int/motorsports/fia-world-rally-championship/wrc-adac-rallye-deutschland-2013-friday-highlights-full-version/video/492-3354-130729.html)
-> Saturday Highlights Full Version <- (http://www.laola1.tv/en/int/motorsports/fia-world-rally-championship/wrc-adac-rallye-deutschland-2013-saturday-highlights-full-version/video/492-3354-130728.html) -> Sunday Highlights Full Version <- (http://www.laola1.tv/en/int/motorsports/fia-world-rally-championship/wrc-adac-rallye-deutschland-2013-sunday-highlights-full-version/video/492-3354-130727.html)

[Mintexmemory]

Second time at Rally D and interestingly far less UK fans than in 2010 - something to do with only having Elfyn to get behind?

Different campsite this time - mistake. East of our tent a bunch of Belgian guys who were very pleasant and we had a number of conversations about how the rally was progressing during the weekend. West of our tent a tribe of Belgian neanderthals (mmm could be a good name for a stage..) who played loud crap music when they returned to their tents at 1.00 am. All the guys were 30 plus but behaved like they were 16 :rolleyes:

While I'm on the subject, next time I go to Rally D I'll prepare with a high sausage and beer diet to be able to compete with the international farting champions, yep the Belgians won. Germany second, Poland and Czech Rep a long way behind (see what I did there ;) )

Very delighted to find that beer prices in Aldi and Lidl are LOWER than 2010!! 29c for 4.9% Pilsner, 25c for Weissbier - Happy days :) Also the German brandy for the late night campfire coffee at 5euro a botle was a pleasant discovery.

The Thierry Neuville supporters club were camped on the same site as me. They were delighted with the progress of their man, both on the stages and in their evening parties (Dutch guys near them were constantly chanting "JARI MATTI LATVALAAAA"). They should have been warned that currently there is no medical procedure that will remove an air horn from the back passage! Thierry was on fire all the Rally and clearly is a winner before too long - I think it's a shame that his increased level of professionalism meant that he couldn't spare even 1 hour with his fans one evening (yes they had made a request).

I found the marshalling friendly, adequate number-wise and relaxed but insufficiently aware of certain aspects of the job. Although they were using the whistle for warning purposes (as opposed to the Spanish traffic cop impersonation) on a number of occasions I saw them clustering so 2-3 whistles were sounding simultaneously rather than sequentially over the assigned spacing along the stage.

[attachment=1:2o7rk281]9611358119_59970119f2_n.jpg[/attachment:2o7rk281]

Sauertal - marshalling was difficult with early-rally over exuberance!

On the subject of Sauertal - the PR was that this would be a stage in the dark! Not so for WRC! Only Al Qassimi had light pods on and the first pod illumination was courteousy of Kubica (Al Attiyah did have his heads on). Roll on Gwydyr / Cloc for proper darkness!

Luckily I got to see PG during shakedown (briefly). Why is he wasting his cash with the company who prepare that bag of ****. He is doing nothing to enhance his reputation and can't possibly put in a worthwhile performance in such poorly prepared equipment. He would have been better advised to demonstrate if he was quicker than Kubica and Evans in a R5 / S2000 if he wanted to impress Hyundai.

Heard Ogier's overshoot on SS3 and saw him limp past followed shortly by JML - interesting that it wasn't a rock that got JML this time although indirectly it was a Hinkelstein! Found a non-official place in 2 different locations for Mittelmosel but timings meant I went to yellow netting zones for the rest of the rally - still enjoyable to compare techniques.

Paddon, Evans and Kubica would all be fantastic to see in WRC cars and I fear that Mads has declined in performance this year, while Evgeny (First Stage !!! ;) ) is badly in need of the old head of Giraudet.

Finally Mikko was the Hyena, and Prokop the Vulture - sad comment that the third podium went to someone who barely set a top 3 time! But Dani was finally the wiley fox who judged his pace to perfection. It was wonderful to see him pose and sign for his fans for sooo long at the pre-podium parc ferme. Thoroughly deserved for a pair of good guys (Carlos is also a real human)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74mex/sets/72157635277998267/
is my set of digital images - 35mm in about a week

[Rallyper]

Regarding PG it´s not so easy, but you have a point.
He doesn´t put in own money. He´s invited to drive.
After RG he was very disappointed to the team and had talks with Tamrazov of the poor maintenance of the car. They told him they forgot to change waterpump, which was on the maintenance list.
They have promised him better things from now on and he decided, according to swedish newspaper, that he will drive in Catalunya (?) as well.

[Mintexmemory]

Regarding PG it´s not so easy, but you have a point.
He doesn´t put in own money. He´s invited to drive.
After RG he was very disappointed to the team and had talks with Tamrazov of the poor maintenance of the car. They told him they forgot to change waterpump, which was on the maintenance list.
They have promised him better things from now on and he decided, according to swedish newspaper, that he will drive in Catalunya (?) as well.
Thanks for the info Per. It was so sad to see the PG service bay already packing away on Friday afternoon before the competitors returned

[stefanvv]

Has this been here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPB-0TfOrvo

[miniwintz]

This is really incredible. Different driving style, different car, yet their pace is so close one can wonder if the videos were edited. I think Latvala loses it at around 10 min in a hairpin, giving off around one second which seems like an eternity compared to the rest of the video. Really nice pick by the promoter there, terrific to watch.