Long Beach to have a Standing Start???

[GRW1983]

Have just read an article from Road and Track by Marshall Pruett stating that standing starts could be implemented as early as Round 3 at Long Beach. I think this would be a good move as they have a long enough start/finish straight and they have done one before in 2008, so I think it could work well. Bear in mind that with Detroit no longer having a standing start and Beaux Barfield looking to add 1 or 2 more, now would be a good time to implement them. They have already done practice at Barber, so the teams wouldn't be totally in the dark.

[C3PO]

Killing people to increase the show is not a good move.

[car20]

Killing people to increase the show is not a good move.

don't know how you figure that one out

:rolleyes: you sir are a fool..........

[Nem14]

Killing people to increase the show is not a good move.Gee! Makes you wonder how F1 and other open wheel series get away with standing starts.

When was the last time a driver was killed in F1 during a standing start? June, 1982 I think. 30 years ago. And car design/materials has changed quite a bit since then.

So. C3PO. How do you support your implication that standing starts kill people?? Or. Are you implying IndyCar drivers are just not capable of doing standing starts without killing each other?

[C3PO]

So. C3PO. How do you support your implication that standing starts kill people?? Or. Are you implying IndyCar drivers are just not capable of doing standing starts without killing each other?

The cars don't have launch control, and only the chevy cars have anti-stall system. The cars not able to do standing starts, and yes there are a lot of drivers who did standing starts a lot of year ago, and some of them never did, and this will be cause some major(hopefully not fatal) crash.

[mr nobody]

The cars don't have launch control, and only the chevy cars have anti-stall system. The cars not able to do standing starts, and yes there are a lot of drivers who did standing starts a lot of year ago, and some of them never did, and this will be cause some major(hopefully not fatal) crash.

After watching the race at St. Pete, do any of the cars have an anti-stall system?

[C3PO]

After watching the race at St. Pete, do any of the cars have an anti-stall system?

Chevy cars have but it's not working ;)

[inimitablestoo]

Might as well try it at Long Beach. Given the nature of the final corner they only usually get about the first three rows properly aligned before the rolling start.

And if that's too dangerous, I propose an old school Le Mans start. Have the cars lined up on one side of the track, the drivers on the other, and start the race by running to your car and getting underway on your own... ;)

[Mark]

The majority of racing series have standing starts. F1 has only recently had anti stall tech and yet still they managed.

[Nikki Katz]

I think it's a decent idea, but only if the clutch etc can cope with it. The ChampCar standing starts were a joke and I think the series could do without bad publicity at the moment.

[call_me_andrew]

Killing people to increase the show is not a good move.

Are you aware that standing starts are considered safer than rolling starts because speeds at the first turn are lower?

[pitwall3]

I think it's a decent idea, but only if the clutch etc can cope with it. The ChampCar standing starts were a joke and I think the series could do without bad publicity at the moment.

IMHO standings starts went off without a hitch in CC. I was at the Portland race and 5 other tracks in 2007 and it made for more exciting and safer starts.

First Champ Car standing start - Portland - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6d7qFf7Kls)

Enjoy

[zako85]

Standing starts are fun to watch in F1. They're part of F1 culture. However, indeed a dumb move by someone could end this tragically. I think F1 fans still vividly remember the crash at the 2012 Belgium GP, where a flying Lotus could have easily chopped off Alonso's head. But then, that's the way motorsport is. IndyCar, NASCAR, and WRC cars do stupid dangerous things as is without standing starts.

[heliocastroneves#3]

IRL shouldn't do standing starts, we are not friggin' Champ Car!

[FIAT1]

IRL shouldn't do standing starts, we are not friggin' Champ Car!

Your way of thinking is wrong. We are all now Indycar as we where in 90s, yes with a joke of the product that once was.Many of us united again support and love Indy and open wheel. I strongly suggest you do the same. Looking forward to the future and hope for open developement and competition with new ideas from some great people and enjoy having honest conversation with passionate fans who want this thing to secede.Standing starts ,why not,mixed up.

[mr nobody]

IRL shouldn't do standing starts, we are not friggin' Champ Car!

We're not friggin IRL either. We are Indycar and if you don't like what the product is or is to become then I guess you need to find something you do like or want.

[anthonyvop]

The cars don't have launch control, and only the chevy cars have anti-stall system. The cars not able to do standing starts, and yes there are a lot of drivers who did standing starts a lot of year ago, and some of them never did, and this will be cause some major(hopefully not fatal) crash.


Every time a driver leaves the pits during a race they execute a standing start......They don't seem to have much of a problem then so why would you expect mayhem during standing starts?

[C3PO]

Every time a driver leaves the pits during a race they execute a standing start......They don't seem to have much of a problem then so why would you expect mayhem during standing starts?

Have you ever seen a race?

[anthonyvop]

Have you ever seen a race?

I would say so. In fact I can go on and on about how many races I have attended and even worked at but I won't.

Instead I will just ask you one simple question....................Have you?

[Starter]

Tony, I wouldn't waste my time with this poster. First, he/she doesn't know as much about racing as they think they do and second, by using a derogatory term about a prior series, it looks like he/she is just trying to pick a fight. Don't take the bait.

[Anubis]

Standing starts are fun to watch in F1. They're part of F1 culture. However, indeed a dumb move by someone could end this tragically. I think F1 fans still vividly remember the crash at the 2012 Belgium GP, where a flying Lotus could have easily chopped off Alonso's head.

How is that crash any different to Marco Andretti flying over Scott Dixon at St Pete in 2011? what about Dan Wheldon getting flipped over at Infineon before he'd even technically started the race?

[Nem14]

The cars don't have launch control, and only the chevy cars have anti-stall system. The cars not able to do standing starts, and yes there are a lot of drivers who did standing starts a lot of year ago, and some of them never did, and this will be cause some major(hopefully not fatal) crash.

What other series' that routinely do standing starts have cars that use 'launch control'?
Major collisions happen with rolling starts too, so you still have not explained how standing starts are any more dangerous than rolling starts.

[Anubis]

To add recent incidents from other series with rolling starts, off the top of my head I can think of Marcel Tiemann's career ending GT Open crash at Imola, the 2008 A1GP race at Sepang where two cars (one being Marco Andretti again, oddly enough) went over Narain Karthikeyan when he suffered gearbox problems and couldn't accelerate, plus a flying Merc SLS at an ADAC GT race at Sachsenring. I just don't see the support for the idea that one is somehow safer than the other.

[mr nobody]

What other series' that routinely do standing starts have cars that use 'launch control'?
Major collisions happen with rolling starts too, so you still have not explained how standing starts are any more dangerous than rolling starts.

No they do not.

Signed,

Kevin Cogan :D

[anthonyvop]

No they do not.

Signed,

Kevin Cogan :D

HA!

[Nem14]

No they do not.

Signed,

Kevin Cogan :D


HA!
That was the 1984 race.

Then there was the start of the 1994 race that effectively ended Stan Fox's race car driving career:
1995 - Indianapolis 500 Start - YouTube (http://youtu.be/dWKbmS12ZKA)

[mr nobody]

That was the 1984 race.

Then there was the start of the 1994 race that effectively ended Stan Fox's race car driving career:
1995 - Indianapolis 500 Start - YouTube

1982 was the year Kevin Cogan wrecked on the start taking out Foyt and Andretti. Also, 1995 was the year Stan Fox suffered his tragic wreck. Not to mention 1991 with Gary Bettenhausen getting sideways in the south short chute and Scott Sharpe in 2001 when he crashed from the pole just shortly after taking the green

[C3PO]

Sad news for chimpcar fans:

curtcavin (https://twitter.com/#%21/curtcavin) .@BeauxBarfield on the possibility of a standing start at Long Beach: "Absolutely not." #IndyCar

[anthonyvop]

Sad news for chimpcar fans:

Sad news for IndyCar fans as TV ratings in the infomercial range and attendance at the level of an summer art festival is expected but hey....

.........Maybe Einstein was wrong.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

[MAX_THRUST]

CART didn't have standing starts, IRL didn't have standing starts. Champ Car tried. For me one of the things I loved about Indy CAr back from the CART days, was rolling starts. Be differernt to every other open wheel series and keep the rolling starts. I'm just not a fan of standing starts in Indy Car. They work fine in F1 and other series, but roling starts are kind of a tradition and should be kept. What makes a series great is history. Lets not loose that piece of history.

[C3PO]

CART didn't have standing starts, IRL didn't have standing starts. Champ Car tried. For me one of the things I loved about Indy CAr back from the CART days, was rolling starts. Be differernt to every other open wheel series and keep the rolling starts. I'm just not a fan of standing starts in Indy Car. They work fine in F1 and other series, but roling starts are kind of a tradition and should be kept. What makes a series great is history. Lets not loose that piece of history.

+1

[garyshell]

Sad news for chimpcar fans:

Loose the epithets. If you mean ChampCar, say ChampCar.

Gary

[C3PO]

Loose the epithets. If you mean ChampCar, say ChampCar.

Gary

I mean chimp car ;)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yWwe5H6b46U/UP_GrrKWmcI/AAAAAAAACWE/-wY6QwFMQnU/s640/chimp_Cars.jpg

[anthonyvop]

I mean chimp car ;)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yWwe5H6b46U/UP_GrrKWmcI/AAAAAAAACWE/-wY6QwFMQnU/s640/chimp_Cars.jpg

Out of curiosity....How old are you?

[SoCalPVguy]

Loose the epithets. If you mean ChampCar, say ChampCar.

Gary

Me too - I mean chimp car

3129

[heliocastroneves#3]

Your way of thinking is wrong. We are all now Indycar as we where in 90s, yes with a joke of the product that once was.Many of us united again support and love Indy and open wheel. I strongly suggest you do the same. Looking forward to the future and hope for open developement and competition with new ideas from some great people and enjoy having honest conversation with passionate fans who want this thing to secede.Standing starts ,why not,mixed up.


We're not friggin IRL either. We are Indycar and if you don't like what the product is or is to become then I guess you need to find something you do like or want.

We are IRL, just with another name... It's already called IndyCar Series since 2003 anyway. I'm open to new ideas, I liked it that the IRL started to do some road/street racing as well in 2005 but since last year they simply went too far with filling the schedule with too much road/street courses, rather than ovals. Some of the ideas where I'm not open for are standing starts.. If you want to see open wheel racing with standing starts, F1 is your best friend. I want the IndyCar Series to be the IndyCar Series, how it always has been... It shouldn't go the same way as Champ Car a.k.a. Formula America.

[Starter]

Standing starts on the roads and streets. Rolling starts on the ovals.

[anthonyvop]

Standing starts on the roads and streets. Rolling starts on the ovals.

Aside from the "nobody has done it before" excuse I see no logical reason why we can't have standing starts on an oval as well.

[Starter]

Aside from the "nobody has done it before" excuse I see no logical reason why we can't have standing starts on an oval as well.
The problem with an oval is, if someone stalls on the grid the cars are back on top of it way too fast. On the road/street courses you at least have a chance to clear it before the pack arrives.

[MAX_THRUST]

Starting a car with that much power that is set up to turn left on a banked starting line would be messy. You'd have to start them from the pit lane, that would be too dangerous too. Stick withrolling starts. Why doesn't Indy Car ask the fans what they think? They may not get the answers they want, but it would be interesting to see what the fans want.

For me stick with rolling starts all the way, bring back the Japanese oval, Australia Surfers race, Cleveland airport track and Michigan. Then add the German and UK oval...I can dream

[Jag_Warrior]

The problem with an oval is, if someone stalls on the grid the cars are back on top of it way too fast. On the road/street courses you at least have a chance to clear it before the pack arrives.

Not really - unless I'm missing something. From a standstill, a car wouldn't be able to accelerate any faster on an oval than on a road course. And compared to a street course, an oval would probably offer more run-off, at least to the left, in the infield. But anyway, if the starting grid constitutes a distance of say 300 feet from the last car to the first car, if the first car was stalled and setting in the middle of the track, the last car wouldn't reach that stalled first car any faster on an oval than a road course.

I'm not for it or against it. I don't really care, to be honest. But the major issue I think they'd face, if they tried to do standing starts anywhere, would be the lack of skill as you get deeper in the field. Despite what C3-Trackforum Boy is ignorantly claiming, F1 has no more (and probably fewer) issues with its standing starts than the IRL (or IndyCar or whatever it's being called this week) has with its rolling starts - Baltimore, anyone? ;) Including the officials, asking some of these characters to do a standing start would be like asking Paris Hilton to solve a physics problem.

[garyshell]

The problem with an oval is, if someone stalls on the grid the cars are back on top of it way too fast. On the road/street courses you at least have a chance to clear it before the pack arrives.


Not really - unless I'm missing something.

I think your are. I believe starter is saying the pole sitter would be back around on the stalled car much quicker on and oval than a road course.

Gary

[GRW1983]

I have to agree with Starter, rolling starts on the ovals and standing starts on the road/streets. Whilst a standing start on an oval would be quite interesting, if a car stalled then the race would be instantly yellowed and that car would go at least 2 laps down before being re-fired, plus the fact that it would go against the traditions of oval racing. Road/Street courses, on the other hand, should be ALL standing starts. Have two Safety crews line-up at the back of the grid, so if one or more cars do stall, they can be quickly re-fired before the field comes back round. But, this would be irrelevant, if both Honda & Chevrolet could get their anti-stall systems sorted by the time we get to Toronto. They've had plenty of time to get these systems working by now.

[anthonyvop]

The problem with an oval is, if someone stalls on the grid the cars are back on top of it way too fast. On the road/street courses you at least have a chance to clear it before the pack arrives.

And when has Indycar cleared anything before the pack arrives?



Starting a car with that much power that is set up to turn left on a banked starting line would be messy.

Same chassis and same power as on the road course so that argument is illogical.


Why doesn't Indy Car ask the fans what they think? They may not get the answers they want, but it would be interesting to see what the fans want.

For me stick with rolling starts all the way, bring back the Japanese oval, Australia Surfers race, Cleveland airport track and Michigan. Then add the German and UK oval...I can dream

The fans have already told us what they want with their $$$ and their eyes.

[Jag_Warrior]

I think your are. I believe starter is saying the pole sitter would be back around on the stalled car much quicker on and oval than a road course.

Gary

But how is that any different than if there is a crash during an oval race? They throw the yellow and the leader and all the other cars slow down. Right?

But again, I'm not arguing in favor of doing this. It's just that apart from tradition or whatever, I don't think there are the safety concerns that some claim, not that I can see anyway. One of the biggest safety concerns I can think of is being on an oval track with E.J. Viso going 220+ mph. Now that is freaking scary! :D

[mr nobody]

The problem with an oval is, if someone stalls on the grid the cars are back on top of it way too fast. On the road/street courses you at least have a chance to clear it before the pack arrives.


But as has been seen several times in F1 if a car that starts in the front rows, a car from the very back has a good deal of speed up before he gets to the car that stalled and has made contact with them shile they were sitting stalled on the grid/track. It's not strictly an issue of the pole sitter coming up on them too fast as it would be more likely a car from the back of the grid hitting it first.

[Starter]

But as has been seen several times in F1 if a car that starts in the front rows, a car from the very back has a good deal of speed up before he gets to the car that stalled and has made contact with them shile they were sitting stalled on the grid/track. It's not strictly an issue of the pole sitter coming up on them too fast as it would be more likely a car from the back of the grid hitting it first.
There is that, but it's no worse than someone making a mistake on a rolling start and scattering cars everywhere. Racing is dangerous, make no mistake about it. The point is that standing starts are very doable and IMO are better done on road type tracks and not ovals.