Top people to replace Mark Webber

[zako85]

I hope I am not starting this discussion too early. If RBR were not to extend Mark Webber's contract, who would be the top candidates to replace him?

[Valve Bounce]

I hope I am not starting this discussion too early. If RBR were not to extend Mark Webber's contract, who would be the top candidates to replace him?

Just off the top of my head : Rubens

[zako85]

Just off the top of my head : Rubens

Hahaha. Good one. I was almost expecting this. Let me tell you that when I started this discussion, it crossed my mind, as a quasi-joke, to ask not to mention either Barrichello or Villeneuve. The Villeneuve's name always comes up when a seat opens up somewhere. But since you have mentioned Barrichello, why stop there. Schumacher to RBR! ;p

[Valve Bounce]

Hahaha. Good one. I was almost expecting this. Let me tell you that when I started this discussion, it crossed my mind, as a quasi-joke, to ask not to mention either Barrichello or Villeneuve. The Villeneuve's name always comes up when a seat opens up somewhere. But since you have mentioned Barrichello, why stop there. Schumacher to RBR! ;p

I never heard the joke "Pull over, Michael", but go on - you must know something I don't. :p

[Knock-on]

JV hasn't been mentioned for 327 seconds... Damn.... :D

[Tazio]

If Spongebob came out of retirement he would be a good replacement for Chopper, they are about equal in talent :dozey:

[Bagwan]

JV hasn't been mentioned for 327 seconds... Damn.... :D

At least we know , Knockie , that JV would dutifully follow orders , as he criticized Sebastian heavily for not doing so .

Oh yeah , he'd also wipe the floor with Webber in the same car .

[Tazio]

At least we know , Knockie , that JV would dutifully follow orders , as he criticized Sebastian heavily for not doing so .

Oh yeah , he'd also wipe the floor with Webber in the same car .
Laissez les bons temps rouler.

[steveaki13]

Damn... I came onto this thread to post Villeneuve, but have been beaten to it and banned from doing so.


Anyhooo. Taking the thread seriously for a minute for Zako's sake.


I cant imagine them promoting a Toro Rosso driver really. Neither seem stunning.

Maybe Hulkenberg after a year at Sauber Other than that I cant think of many names to fill the seat.

[Valve Bounce]

Didn't Vettel start at Rosso?

[steveaki13]

Didn't Vettel start at Rosso?

Yer but Vettel stood out to me straight away. Ricciardo and Vernge dont seem to give the impression they are likely to win championships to me.

[CNR]

Ricciardo can out race Vettel in the red bull race simulator (tom Clarkson)

[Rollo]

I'm going to make a bold prediction and suggest that 2013 will prove that McLaren picked the wrong Sauber driver.

If you put Kamui Kobayashi head to head against Webber, I think that Kamui would kick Mark Webber's butt every which way to Thursday. Mark Webber is so dull that he's not even exciting enough to come from Canberra and that's saying something. Kamui would've given Vettel something to think about.

[Valve Bounce]

Ricciardo can out race Vettel in the red bull race simulator (tom Clarkson)

Can you pass in the simulator? or disobey team orders?

[Valve Bounce]

I'm going to make a bold prediction and suggest that 2013 will prove that McLaren picked the wrong Sauber driver.

If you put Kamui Kobayashi head to head against Webber, I think that Kamui would kick Mark Webber's butt every which way to Thursday. Mark Webber is so dull that he's not even exciting enough to come from Canberra and that's saying something. Kamui would've given Vettel something to think about.

Them's fighting words. On the other hand, the only thing that comes out of Canberra is hot air. :p

[Hawkmoon]

Assuming Webber does leave (if he does I think it will be to retirement) Red Bull will probably look for a compliant number 2 who isn't going to threaten Vettel (or his ego). Red Bull don't need their second driver taking points off Vettel so one of the Torro Rosso drivers probably fits the bill quite nicely. I think they'll jump at the chance to race at the front and will accept a number two status if that's what it takes to get there.

[Big Ben]

IMO top people should not be considered for the job... for everyone's sake. average at best... maybe even bottom people..

[slorydn1]

I'm available :D

[CNR]

F1: Rumour Mill Considers Webber's Successor, Order-gate Rages On | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/56256/f1-rumour-mill-considers-webbers-successor-order-gate-rages-on)
That prospect has excited Switzerland's Blick newspaper, with veteran correspondent Roger Benoit pointing out that capable reserve driver Sebastien Buemi is waiting impatiently in the wings. Red Bull also has its Toro Rosso drivers Daniel Ricciardo (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/tag/daniel-ricciardo) andJean-Eric Vergne (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/tag/jean-eric-vergne) to choose between.
Toro Rosso team boss Franz Tost told Blick: "There will certainly be no change of drivers between Red Bull and Toro Rosso."

[longisland]

Enrique Bernoldi. He's Helmut Marko's favourite driver.

[christophulus]

I cant imagine them promoting a Toro Rosso driver really. Neither seem stunning.

If they don't promote a Toro Rosso driver, you'd have to question what the point of them having the STR team is in the first place? I agree though, I don't rate either as a future world champion - but then if Vettel's in the car they probably aren't looking for one.

[dj_bytedisaster]

On the back of latest rumours that Porsche is very interested in having Webber for their LeMans program, I think the idea of Mark leaving isn't that far fetched. In fact if I was Horner, I'd pay Porsche a wad of cash to take him now, because Vettel and Webber are on the war path and that's going to end in a shunt at some point.
People will cry foul that they sack Webber instead of 'the offender', but then it doesn't matter. RB pretty much wrecked their own authority by not doing anything when Mark ignored the team's wishes in Silverstone 2011 and Brazil 2012 and not doing anything again when Vettel humiliated tem in Malaysia. So what do they have to lose? Keep the guy, who delivered 3 WDC and get rid of the loudmouth, who's words have been bolder than his results.

[zako85]

Mateschitz: "Mark is definitely a candidate for 2014" (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/189419/1/mateschitz_red_bull_driver_talk_speculation.html)

[racerdude]

<reply to zako85> this team is sure getting worse. hahaha.. just saying.. :dozey:

[CNR]

F1: Raikkonen 'A Candidate' For Red Bull Seat - Mateschitz | Reviews | Prices | Australian specifications (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/56265/f1-raikkonen-a-candidate-for-red-bull-seat-mateschitz)
Kimi Raikkonen is "a candidate" to replace Mark Webber at Red Bull, team owner Dietrich Mateschitz has admitted.

[webberf1]

I'd like to see either Ricciardo or Vergne come up from Toro Rosso. Both are really talented drivers making the most of a poor car.

[Robinho]

Thats a difficult statement to prove, you could equally say they are both below average drivers not making the best of a competitive car - that is the problem with having 2 guys with no comparison with anything insode F1 competing against each other. They are both performing ok, but to me at the same sort of level as Buemi and Alguesari were. I thought they were both decent drivers and look what happened to them. If they are going to use Torro Roos as an evaluation tool for newe drivers they really need to at least stagger them so they aren't both new at the same time, or have an known quantity to measure them against.

[TheFamousEccles]

Is it time for the next race, yet? Two weeks of minutiae and speculation of how or who or when a certain GP winning, well credentialed race driver might be replaced (but don't argue with the cognoscenti if you are of the same nationality) is getting boring.

[zako85]

Is it time for the next race, yet? Two weeks of minutiae and speculation of how or who or when a certain GP winning, well credentialed race driver might be replaced (but don't argue with the cognoscenti if you are of the same nationality) is getting boring.


At least the previous race did leave us enough ammunition to argue for almost two weeks.

[Valve Bounce]

At least the previous race did leave us enough ammunition to argue for almost two weeks.

Yeah! kept me awake. :(

[steveaki13]

Its strange. Most of the top drivers in F1 are already in teams and looking settled. I dont really see any second tier drivers so to speak ready to step up.

You normally have a couple of youngsters who everyone is sure will be a future champion. i.e in 2001-2003 everyone saw potential in Alonso & Raikkonen, 2004-2006 Button showed he was certainly going to be a decent driver, then Hamilton and Seb popped up.

No one really leaping out at me yet.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm going to make a bold prediction and suggest that 2013 will prove that McLaren picked the wrong Sauber driver.

If you put Kamui Kobayashi head to head against Webber, I think that Kamui would kick Mark Webber's butt every which way to Thursday. Mark Webber is so dull that he's not even exciting enough to come from Canberra and that's saying something. Kamui would've given Vettel something to think about.

I also think that Kobayashi would be ideal. I don't think he's quite quick enough to challenge Vettel (or his ego) very often, but he is quick enough to score championship points.

[Coulthard Fan]

James Calado
Fabio Leimer
Nico Hulkenburg
Adrian Sutil
These guys are probably the best around at the minute not in top drives.
Daniel and John (Jean) are extremely average drivers if one of them gets promoted it's a joke.

[Coulthard Fan]

Oops forgot Luiz Razia and Felipe Nazr

[Whyzars]

At least the previous race did leave us enough ammunition to argue for almost two weeks.

Absolutely and its not like the publicity Red Bull is getting is bad publicity. They have two excellent and competitive drivers in their cars who finished 1 and 2 at the last Grand Prix. :eek:

I don't understand why people think that Red Bull would want Webber driving anywhere else.

The thing that keeps this "Multi-21gate" going is that Webber and Vettel are a good pairing. Vettel has the edge definitely with Webber being good enough to capitalise on a race that goes his way.

Every time the two of them are close on the track we have a good race. If anyone takes Webber's seat they have very big shoes to fill and I hope that Red Bull never, ever refers to anyone as their number 2 driver.


P.S. I wish I could use photoshop as a fun pic would be Mark fitting red bullbars to his car for the Chinese Grand Prix. :)

[Valve Bounce]

Its strange. Most of the top drivers in F1 are already in teams and looking settled. I dont really see any second tier drivers so to speak ready to step up.

You normally have a couple of youngsters who everyone is sure will be a future champion. i.e in 2001-2003 everyone saw potential in Alonso & Raikkonen, 2004-2006 Button showed he was certainly going to be a decent driver, then Hamilton and Seb popped up.

No one really leaping out at me yet.

I think you have provided the answer. All the ex future champions you mentioned are still there, so any future champion would have to show up against these guys who have improved over the years. A daunting task.

[Ranger]

James Calado
Fabio Leimer
Nico Hulkenburg
Adrian Sutil
These guys are probably the best around at the minute not in top drives.
Daniel and John (Jean) are extremely average drivers if one of them gets promoted it's a joke.

When did Adrian Sutil become a top driver?

Leading one race on an alternate fuel strategy and finishing 6 seconds ahead of your rather ordinary team-mate doesn't suddenly make him a top driver.

[seb_sh]

Webber will be hard to replace by any Red Bull junior drivers. Ideally I think they would have liked to keep him at least one more year but it's looking very unlikely to me.

Where could Webber go next year? To Lotus to replace Grosjean if he disappoints this season might be interesting for him. Ferrari could be a destination as well but Massa seems to be back on the ball. I don't think McLaren will change the lineup and neither will Mercedes. That's about it for the top teams and I doubt he'll want to go to a lower ranked team so maybe we'll see him in a Porsche at Le Mans :)

As for up and coming drivers I'm keeping an eye on Bianchi.

[zako85]

When did Adrian Sutil become a top driver?

Leading one race on an alternate fuel strategy and finishing 6 seconds ahead of your rather ordinary team-mate doesn't suddenly make him a top driver.

It's impressive after a year-long break.

[DexDexter]

Kimi Räikkönen. Him and Vettel would be a better combination than they have now. It makes perfect sense: Red Bull sponsored Kimi's rallying "career", he gets along with Seb and Horner very well and is a better driver than Mark Webber. At Red Bull he'd get a winning car.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Kimi Räikkönen. Him and Vettel would be a better combination than they have now. It makes perfect sense: Red Bull sponsored Kimi's rallying "career", he gets along with Seb and Horner very well and is a better driver than Mark Webber. At Red Bull he'd get a winning car.

But they're both alpha-males. That wouldn't work. Look what sort of problems pairing Vettel with a guy, who believes to be an alpha. What sort of trouble would pairing him to a driver, who actually is one, bring?

[DexDexter]

But they're both alpha-males. That wouldn't work. Look what sort of problems pairing Vettel with a guy, who believes to be an alpha. What sort of trouble would pairing him to a driver, who actually is one, bring?

I'd be down to Seb and his attitude. Räikkönen always respects his teammates and will work for the team if necessary, like in 2008.

[janneppi]

I'd be down to Seb and his attitude. Räikkönen always respects his teammates and will work for the team if necessary, like in 2008.
So it's already a doomed idea. ;)

[Knock-on]

Kimi Räikkönen. ...... At Red Bull he'd get a winning car.
:confused:

[Tazio]

Leave Kimi alone. :arrows: :)

[Coulthard Fan]

I have always rated Sutil he is a very fast consistant driver! He is so underrated.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I'd be down to Seb and his attitude. Räikkönen always respects his teammates and will work for the team if necessary, like in 2008.

You forget a few facts here. 2008 and especially 2009 played a major part in Kimi buggering off to WRC, Also I don't see much attitude in Vettel. He never demanded preferential treatment over Mark until last race and if one looks at all publically known facts without wearing Vettel-hate goggles, it was the team, who made an atrocious call, resulting in Vettel going ballistic.
A combination of two drivers, who are WDC material has rarely worked in the past. Hamilton/Alonso, Senna/Prost, Mansell/Piquet should be all the examples you need to not even entertain the idea.

[Mia 01]

We don´t talk about him in this forum.

I really think that If Spongebob came out of then he would be a excellent replace , they are about equivalent in skills . . .

[jens]

Räikkönen is certainly an attractive option for Red Bull Racing. RBR could have considered him in the past as well, but as Kimi had taken a sabbatical, it was unclear, how good would he still be after coming back to F1. But by now he has shown he is still very good. However, the main question is if Kimi is interested in the move, because Lotus is fast and he seems very comfortable there.

The only reason could be if he sees RBR as a clearly better long-term prospect despite Lotus currently doing well. Much like Button saw McLaren as a better prospect than Brawn/Mercedes despite winning the title for the latter in 2009. But this is something only Kimi can know.

If I was in Horner's shoes, I would certainly keep my eye on Hülkenberg. Quietly building himself up in the midfield. However, I am not sure Red Bull would like to have two Germans in their line-up, so that could be an obstacle.

Ricciardo and Vergne? Both have shown flashes of brilliance here and there, but nothing extraordinary on a consistent basis. Also based on their form in feeder categories I think both drivers are fundamentally pretty good, but whether this is enough to get hired by the best team in the sport, is another matter. I suspect neither has really proven themselves that attractive so far. So RBR has a dilemma of what to do.

Who else? Someone mentioned Grosjean. Well, he really has to impress this season then. :) Bottas, Bianchi and others sound like even a longer shot.

In any case, exciting times ahead. And it is certainly interesting to see, what will happen to RBR's second seat in the long run, especially if Kimi turns it down. But even if he doesn't, Lotus' second seat would automatically become an interesting topic. :)



Its strange. Most of the top drivers in F1 are already in teams and looking settled. I dont really see any second tier drivers so to speak ready to step up.

You normally have a couple of youngsters who everyone is sure will be a future champion. i.e in 2001-2003 everyone saw potential in Alonso & Raikkonen, 2004-2006 Button showed he was certainly going to be a decent driver, then Hamilton and Seb popped up.

No one really leaping out at me yet.

I think Hülkenberg is gradually going the same route as the drivers you mentioned. Silently impressing in midfield, even though his debut season in Williams was a disappointment. By 2004-06 Button was a very experienced driver, so it is even a bit unfair to compare Hülkenberg to that and say he hasn't done anything. After all, Button himself wasn't that spectacular in his first couple of F1 seasons either, getting beaten by his team-mates.

But as said, RBR may not want an all-German line-up... So Hülkenberg has to wait for another team to pick him up.

[DexDexter]

:confused:

Lotus won't be winning races when the regulations change. Not enough money.

I really think that If Spongebob came out of then he would be a excellent replace , they are about equivalent in skills . . .

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[CNR]

I think it may be Räikkönen to redbull and mark to lotus or Ferrari looks like he could get a drive at lotus Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/aussie-ace-mark-webber-in-lotus-pose/story-fn7q3txe-1226081958030)
Lotus Renault team principal Eric Boullier said he had spoken to Webber about a move that would make the Australian the undisputed No.1 driver in a team capable of challenging the big guns of the sport."I really like Mark and I have known him for a long time," Boullier said on the eve of the European GP in Valencia.
"We have discussed it from time to time, but we have never pushed him to ask what he wants to do because that decision is up to him."

[Koz]

Did you look at the date of the article?

[CNR]

Did you look at the date of the article? yes
Boullier described Webber, who will have no shortage of options if he decides to leave Red Bull Racing, as no diva, and said a job with his team was only a phone call away.
"The day he wants to leave Red Bull, he has my number and he knows I am interested," Boullier said.
"He has to tell us what he wants to do. If he seriously is considering moving away from Red Bull, then yes I am happy to sit and discuss with him. He needs to make a decision."

[Koz]

So what's the point in posting links to a 2 year old article, when they have a driver of far greater caliber, a world champion at that, currently racing for them?

Who in their right mind would be willing to invest in Mark Webber now?
He will be 37 years old. Who has been beaten by his team mate every when he had a decent teammate?
IIRC, only Rosberg in his first season and DC in his last are the exception?
Even Nick Heidfeld destroyed him.

This is Webber's last season.

[dj_bytedisaster]

So what's the point in posting links to a 2 year old article, when they have a driver of far greater caliber, a world champion at that, currently racing for them?

Who in their right mind would be willing to invest in Mark Webber now?
He will be 37 years old. Who has been beaten by his team mate every when he had a decent teammate?
IIRC, only Rosberg in his first season and DC in his last are the exception?
Even Nick Heidfeld destroyed him.

This is Webber's last season.

You shouldn't say that. Mark Webber is god around here. Not because he has done anything, but he's such a good tool to use for Vettel hatred.

[Ranger]

Who in their right mind would be willing to invest in Mark Webber now?
He will be 37 years old. Who has been beaten by his team mate every when he had a decent teammate?
IIRC, only Rosberg in his first season and DC in his last are the exception?
Even Nick Heidfeld destroyed him.

This is Webber's last season.

This is a stupid argument. No one would care about this recent blow-up had Webber not competing with Vettel for race victories, obviously.

Prior to Vettel, the only team-mate who troubled Webber was Heidfeld... who was destroying him 28-24 (a whopping four points!!!) :\ - with 5 races left to run. Webber was streets ahead of Coulthard and was much better than Rosberg in 2006.

I might also mention this is the same Nick Heidfeld that also scored more points than Raikkonen, Massa, Villeneuve and Kubica - who with Webber have 54 wins between them. So he shouldn't be considered a yardstick for a dummy unless you think that all of the above were average.


So what's the point in posting links to a 2 year old article, when they have a driver of far greater caliber, a world champion at that, currently racing for them?

Obviously Webber is not as good as Raikkonen. But based on last year he would be 100% better than Grosjean.

I do like Romain and want him to impress - but he needs actually to do that this year.

[Koz]

My point is that Webber was beaten every season, bar two, since he has been out of the Jaguar.
And his career is over now, no one wants or needs a decent, if not inconsistent, driver at 37-38 racing from them when the available talent pool is so much greater.
He's not Schumacher that he has any special appeal. He's a decent driver, nothing special. But in the end it was his luck that he ended up in RedBull - which happened to turn out the best car in the field. Were he in any other team, he would never have even won a race and be forgotten by now.


IMO, Nick was much better than Mark that year.

I don't rate beating drivers in their rookie team mates particularly high - 2009 being the exception. As for JV... Well, I say poo.
In the end Nick was matched by the Russian pay driver.

[Koz]

Obviously Webber is not as good as Raikkonen. But based on last year he would be 100% better than Grosjean.

I do like Romain and want him to impress - but he needs actually to do that this year.

Seeing as Romain retired from half the races and was just over 110 points behind Kimi who finished every race, while Webber finished as many races as Vettel and scored 100 points less. Makes me think Grosjean is probably better. Not all his crashes were his fault, after all.

I hope RG impresses this year too, but I feel he will be kept behind Kimi this year, seeing he hasn't had the same package as Kimi so far this year.

[Roamy]

At least we know , Knockie , that JV would dutifully follow orders , as he criticized Sebastian heavily for not doing so .

Oh yeah , he'd also wipe the floor with Webber in the same car .

He would probably kick the sh!t out of 'snot nose" too BTW Bag I heard from his manager again and watch for some Nascar stuff coming!!

And to answer the poster's question - Riccardo will take the seat next year unless they just pay webber and he can take over.

[Roamy]

I'd be down to Seb and his attitude. Räikkönen always respects his teammates and will work for the team if necessary, like in 2008.

Right - If Kimi goes over there and Seb pulls any of his bullsh!t - Seb will be doing some sheet time !

[christophulus]

Strong rumours on Twitter that Webber will quit F1 at the end of the year to move across to the World Endurance Championship!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Right - If Kimi goes over there and Seb pulls any of his bullsh!t - Seb will be doing some sheet time !

As strange as it sounds, Vettel and Kimi are actually friends of sorts. I doubt Kimi would pull any foul play against Seb as Webber has done in the past and Seb also would pay much more respect to Kimi, Why RBR has stuck to a combination of two mortal enemies since 2010 is anybodies guess, but it surely doesn't make them look like the brightest bulb in the chandelier.

[steveaki13]

Strong rumours on Twitter that Webber will quit F1 at the end of the year to move across to the World Endurance Championship!

If that ends up being true, I think that would be a good move for Mark. I mean he isn't going to get another top drive. He has won Grand Prix so it may be time to move back into other forms of racing.

[dj_bytedisaster]

If that ends up being true, I think that would be a good move for Mark. I mean he isn't going to get another top drive. He has won Grand Prix so it may be time to move back into other forms of racing.

This rumour has been around in Germany for two weeks already. I think Mark is well off in sports car racing - I mean even people like JD Deletraz managed to do well there. I don't think they did it deliberately, but the way RB screwed him over this weekend makes it probable that he won't be too unhappy to get away from it all.

[Rollo]

Strong rumours on Twitter that Webber will quit F1 at the end of the year to move across to the World Endurance Championship!

To Porsche, for five years.

[Ranger]

To Porsche, for five years.

Why would he suddenly sign for a team for five years, when for the past 7 years he has only signed one-year contracts? It doesn't make sense.

I highly doubt he has signed any contract for next year yet.

[Tazio]

Strong rumours on Twitter that Webber will quit F1 at the end of the year to move across to the World Endurance Championship!
http://performanceforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64735&d=1365941147

[dj_bytedisaster]

Yeah why Benson. but you are a window-licking idiot, so why would someone listen to you, mate.
Benson didn't say so, so it can't be true. I've heard Benson didn't say that water boils at 100°C.

[steveaki13]

Mark might be keen to get out of F1 and leave behind things like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GQ0MBMhDjo

[steveaki13]

And move back to things like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXZaAuyuYmQ

[markabilly]

Sorry to say, but I can see Webber being forced out before 2013 ends.....if for no other reason, to make the owner happy

[Koz]

So. Now this is real.

Looks like Kimi is the best candidate. For a year or two, till he gets bored, and then get a young guy in when he is ready?

[Rollo]

Why would he suddenly sign for a team for five years, when for the past 7 years he has only signed one-year contracts? It doesn't make sense.

I highly doubt he has signed any contract for next year yet.

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/australian-mark-webber-signs-five-year-deal-to-drive-for-porsche/story-fnebo26y-1226620441226)

News Ltd reports it today, ABC Radio reported it yesterday in the midday bulletin.

"Webber will never win a World Championship and unless he's given the best car in the field, probably will never win a race either."
- Rollo, Motorsport Forums, 25th Mar 2006.

I think my assessment from 7 years ago was pretty spot on.

[faster69]

So. Now this is real.

Looks like Kimi is the best candidate. For a year or two, till he gets bored, and then get a young guy in when he is ready?

kimi seems to be able to bring a car home and will make a good second driver. maybe even snare a race or two a year.

[CNR]

Porsche denies Mark Webber deal (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/porsche-denies-mark-webber-deal-20130415-2hvns.html)

[christophulus]

kimi seems to be able to bring a car home and will make a good second driver. maybe even snare a race or two a year.

Anyone actually think Kimi would listen to team orders? They'll bring in a clear number 2 driver if Webber leaves.

[webberf1]

Forget about Kimi in a Red Bull seat. Another year or so in F1 and he'll get bored again. Bring in a young gun. Hulkenberg would be my #1 contender. Ricciardo and Bianchi have also shown their worth.

PS. How do I delete my old signature? I tried to edit it in the profile settings but it didnt work.

[Koz]

kimi seems to be able to bring a car home and will make a good second driver. maybe even snare a race or two a year.

Get off the Kool-Aid and have a Red Bull.

[zako85]

It looks like the price of Raikkonen's stock will be approaching an all time high towards the middle of this year. Not only it's possible that RBR is interested in him, but I bet McLaren is also thinking about hiring him too. The desperate Lotus surely would also help to bid up his price (does anyone think that Lotus would be anywhere without him?)

I know that Kimi may not always be the best "number 2" driver, but I bet RBR might prefer an alpha driver like Kimi to a mediocre "number 2" driver, at least as long as Vettel does not oppose this.

[forestial]

It will be one of Helmut Marko's kids

[Mia 01]

It looks like the price of Raikkonen's stock will be approaching an all time high towards the middle of this year. Not only it's possible that RBR is interested in him, but I bet McLaren is also thinking about hiring him too. The desperate Lotus surely would also help to bid up his price (does anyone think that Lotus would be anywhere without him?)

I know that Kimi may not always be the best "number 2" driver, but I bet RBR might prefer an alpha driver like Kimi to a mediocre "number 2" driver, at least as long as Vettel does not oppose this.

Kimi back to MacLaren, I would like that!!

[CaptainRaiden]

Be the number one driver at Lotus and have a crack at the WDC.

OR

Be the lap dog to Vettel at Red Bull.

Hmm....decisions, decisions. I highly doubt Kimi will sign the Red Bull contract if it has the second driver clause in it. He just isn't that kind of a driver.

[CaptainRaiden]

Getting Kimi back to Mclaren could be the best move of Martin Titmarsh's career after he let Lewis slip through, and then in an epic act of desperation, bum rushed to sign Perez.

Go ahead Titmarsh, bring Kimi back to Mclaren, atone for your sins.

[AndyL]

Go ahead Titmarsh

Lucky for you Pino's recently reinstated rule only applies to drivers ;)
http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/151573-please-do-read-before-posting.html#post1119416

[Ranger]

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/australian-mark-webber-signs-five-year-deal-to-drive-for-porsche/story-fnebo26y-1226620441226)

News Ltd reports it today, ABC Radio reported it yesterday in the midday bulletin.

"Webber will never win a World Championship and unless he's given the best car in the field, probably will never win a race either."
- Rollo, Motorsport Forums, 25th Mar 2006.

I think my assessment from 7 years ago was pretty spot on.

You have said a lot of things since I've been here.

In fact I recall you said that you would eat your hat if he ever won a race... did you do that?

[Koz]

It looks like the price of Raikkonen's stock will be approaching an all time high towards the middle of this year. Not only it's possible that RBR is interested in him, but I bet McLaren is also thinking about hiring him too. The desperate Lotus surely would also help to bid up his price (does anyone think that Lotus would be anywhere without him?)

I know that Kimi may not always be the best "number 2" driver, but I bet RBR might prefer an alpha driver like Kimi to a mediocre "number 2" driver, at least as long as Vettel does not oppose this.

Actually, yes?
Lotus is genuinely a quick car, as it was last year. The fact that Grosjean was as fast as Kimi in quali and in some races, proves it - it was his crashiness that prevented them from taking 2nd in the WCC.

Lotus is doing incredibly well, much better than McLaren. I am sure if McLaren were interested in him they would have made their move when Lewis left.

[CaptainRaiden]

Lucky for you Pino's recently reinstated rule only applies to drivers ;)
http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/151573-please-do-read-before-posting.html#post1119416

Lucky for me, Titmarsh is an actual surname in UK.

Titmarsh : the surname Titmarsh - sofeminine (http://surname.sofeminine.co.uk/w/surnames/surname-titmarsh.html)

I don't see what the problem is. :)

[tfp]

Be the number one driver at Lotus and have a crack at the WDC.

OR

Be the lap dog to Vettel at Red Bull.

Hmm....decisions, decisions. I highly doubt Kimi will sign the Red Bull contract if it has the second driver clause in it. He just isn't that kind of a driver.

kimi would be a lap dog at rbr? Yeah right. Imagine the pre podium celebrations of the red bull 1-2.

Vettel - "multi 12 Kimi, multi 12"
raikkonen - "yeah, yeah, yeah, leave me alone, I know what I was doing"

"Deal with it" :cool:

[Boudica]

Actually, yes?
Lotus is genuinely a quick car, as it was last year. The fact that Grosjean was as fast as Kimi in quali and in some races, proves it - it was his crashiness that prevented them from taking 2nd in the WCC.

Lotus is doing incredibly well, much better than McLaren. I am sure if McLaren were interested in him they would have made their move when Lewis left.

The Lotus is not a great qualifying car, Kimi sets his car up for the races. Grosjean did match Kimi in qualifying at times but in the races Grosjean only finished ahead of Kimi twice the whole season. Saying that Grosjean would have done better if he did not crash so much is reversed logic. Grosjean was the one who was responsible for most of his crashes. And while Kimi did finish every race it doesn't mean he didn't have any issues at all, which unlike Grosjean's crashes where not of his own making and it also means that some of his performances where compromised at times, to actually be able to collect those points and finish those races. Kimi was the driver who missed the most free practice sessions last year due to something breaking on his car, he almost missed a few sessions every other race, and on top of that he kept on testing Lotus's PDRS system (which still hasn't seen the light of day) during the time he was suppose to do his setups for the race and qualifying, combine that with being out of F1 for two years and it is not surprising that he sometimes lost out in qualifying. If you have limited time to set up your car, it makes more sense to concentrate on race setup.
Kimi also often had issues with Kers, he suffered from a broken kers at 5 different weekends and a broken differential in qualifying in Canada, and gearbox penalties. But despite this Kimi finished every race, bar one in the points and made the most of his car in most situations. That is not an easy thing to do.

This season seems to be different from last season, the E21 is not an easy car to setup and drive. Kimi has out qualified Grosjean 0.4 - 0.6 so far in all 3 races. Kimi did get a new exhaust for Malaysia that Grosjean didn't have, but the team also did it before for Grosjean. Last season they give Grosjean the first updates from Valencia to Silverstone. Lotus just doesn't have the same resources as the big teams, so it goes with the territory.
In China both drivers had exactly the same parts. The team placed Kimi on the wrong clutch settings at the start so he lost a few positions, then he had the tangle with Perez which damaged his front wing, he was losing 0.25 seconds per lap according to Alan Permane. And yet with a faulty start and damaged car he finished 43 seconds ahead of Grosjean. I can see why Grosjean is taking a less aggressive approach this season, and it is good that he has consistently scored points so far this season.
But if we would have judged the E21 solely on Grosjean's results - 10, 6, 9, then the car would have looked liked the 5th/ 6th best car on the grid, on par with the Mclaren's and Force India, while in Kimi's hands the car is competing for the WDC. And it was pretty much the same situation last year as well. Lotus doesn't seem to impressed by Red Bull for trying to lure Kimi: Lotus not worried Red bull can lure Kimi Raikkonen away - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106798)

Kimi has always been a natural choice for Red Bull, his image fits in with the type of image that Red Bull is trying to convey about themselves. Getting Kimi in the team will boost the team's likability. And Red Bull in turn has always had a connection with Kimi, they have been his personal sponsor from the start of his F1 career even when he was at Ferrari, they sponsored his stint in WRC, and they are currently sponsoring his motocross team. Kimi is not part of the young drivers program but he has always been a part of Red Bull in some way. And of course Kimi is a very popular driver from a marketing perceptive this would be a great combination. Even Helmut Marko approves of Kimi as a candidate.

But Kimi is currently 2nd in the championship, only 3 points behind Vettel, if Lotus keeps on providing him with a competitive car then there is really no incentive for him to leave the team. He seems to fit in really well at Lotus, and they dont have the politics of a big team.

It will most likely be one of the STR drivers who will get the seat, or they could always go for Grosjean.

[webberf1]

PS. How do I delete my old signature? I tried to edit it in the profile settings but it didnt work.

Anyone?

[CNR]

Anyone? go to settings on the left side goto my settings Edit Signature type new one and save

[zako85]

Actually, yes? Lotus is genuinely a quick car, as it was last year. The fact that Grosjean was as fast as Kimi in quali and in some races, proves it - it was his crashiness that prevented them from taking 2nd in the WCC. That doesn't contradict what I said. You will need a good driver like Kimi to bring the car regularly into good points.

[faster69]

Actually, yes?
Lotus is genuinely a quick car, as it was last year. The fact that Grosjean was as fast as Kimi in quali and in some races, proves it - it was his crashiness that prevented them from taking 2nd in the WCC.

Lotus is doing incredibly well, much better than McLaren. I am sure if McLaren were interested in him they would have made their move when Lewis left.

yeah, even as recently as malaysia did grosjean beat kimi.

[faster69]

Forget about Kimi in a Red Bull seat. Another year or so in F1 and he'll get bored again. Bring in a young gun. Hulkenberg would be my #1 contender. Ricciardo and Bianchi have also shown their worth.

PS. How do I delete my old signature? I tried to edit it in the profile settings but it didnt work.

he was never bored with f1. santander wanted alonso winning a championship not kimi.

[webberf1]

he was never bored with f1. santander wanted alonso winning a championship not kimi.
It would have been hard for him to win a championship whilst getting regularly smoked by his teammate Massa at the time. Just face it dude, Kimi's F1 mojo at the time was dying.

[faster69]

they were even throughout, but yeah kimi was the highest paid person in f1 at the time and wasn't quick enough to justify his salary. i do think ferrari had eyes on alonso from the time he laft mclaren.

[DexDexter]

yeah, even as recently as malaysia did grosjean beat kimi.

After a grid penalty for Kimi.

[Garry Walker]

Also I don't see much attitude in Vettel. He never demanded preferential treatment over Mark until last race .
LOL.




Obviously Webber is not as good as Raikkonen. But based on last year he would be 100% better than Grosjean.
.
Is he? Webber had the best and fastest car last year, he ended up 6th. Grosjean had the 4th best car and ended up in 8th place.


Strong rumours on Twitter that Webber will quit F1 at the end of the year to move across to the World Endurance Championship!
Twitter - the most credible encyclopedia of our time.

[tfp]

LOL.


Is he? Webber had the best and fastest car last year, he ended up 6th. Grosjean had the 4th best car and ended up in 8th place.


Twitter - the most credible encyclopedia of our time.

quite possibly, if Lewis Hamilton is posting ;)

[faster69]

grosjean's position in the championship doesn't tell the full story. on sheer pace grosjean matched kimi.

[Koz]

The Lotus is not a great qualifying car, Kimi sets his car up for the races. Grosjean did match Kimi in qualifying at times but in the races Grosjean only finished ahead of Kimi twice the whole season.

The Lotus was like the Ferrari, much stronger in races than qualifying.
Grosjean beat Kimi 10-9 in qualifying.
Yes, he did move backwards in the races, I attribute that to his inexperience rather than Kimi set up or Lotus being a bad car - and it should have won at Bahrain (Kimi's rustiness) and especially in Hungary (where Kimi was clearly quicker than Hamilton, but had no space to overtake).
As we have seen, with warm track temperature Lotus was at least second fastest car on the track, in races. On cooler tracks, their performance was worse.
And just like Kimi, every race that he finished he was in the points - something we cannot say for anyone except the Vettel, Kimi, Fred and Lewis.
Also, in the races that he did finish, Grosjean was also never more than two places lower than Kimi. Usually he was the guy just behind Kimi. What do you make of that?

Does that make Grosjean a bad driver or Lotus a bad car? Consistency suggests otherwise.

I do not believe anyone can fault Grosjean's pace, his inexperience and proclivity for crashing, yes.
Up to the mid-season break, I have to say, Lotus was one of the best cars on the grid for most races, after that they couldn't maintain development.

Nor am I taking anything away from Kimi, he is one of the best drives on the grid. Equally driver of the season with Alonso, Hamilton.



This season seems to be different from last season, the E21 is not an easy car to setup and drive. Kimi has out qualified Grosjean 0.4 - 0.6 so far in all 3 races. Kimi did get a new exhaust for Malaysia that Grosjean didn't have, but the team also did it before for Grosjean. Last season they give Grosjean the first updates from Valencia to Silverstone. Lotus just doesn't have the same resources as the big teams, so it goes with the territory.
In China both drivers had exactly the same parts. The team placed Kimi on the wrong clutch settings at the start so he lost a few positions, then he had the tangle with Perez which damaged his front wing, he was losing 0.25 seconds per lap according to Alan Permane. And yet with a faulty start and damaged car he finished 43 seconds ahead of Grosjean. I can see why Grosjean is taking a less aggressive approach this season, and it is good that he has consistently scored points so far this season.
But if we would have judged the E21 solely on Grosjean's results - 10, 6, 9, then the car would have looked liked the 5th/ 6th best car on the grid, on par with the Mclaren's and Force India, while in Kimi's hands the car is competing for the WDC. And it was pretty much the same situation last year as well. Lotus doesn't seem to impressed by Red Bull for trying to lure Kimi: Lotus not worried Red bull can lure Kimi Raikkonen away - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106798)

Kimi has always been a natural choice for Red Bull, his image fits in with the type of image that Red Bull is trying to convey about themselves. Getting Kimi in the team will boost the team's likability. And Red Bull in turn has always had a connection with Kimi, they have been his personal sponsor from the start of his F1 career even when he was at Ferrari, they sponsored his stint in WRC, and they are currently sponsoring his motocross team. Kimi is not part of the young drivers program but he has always been a part of Red Bull in some way. And of course Kimi is a very popular driver from a marketing perceptive this would be a great combination. Even Helmut Marko approves of Kimi as a candidate.

But Kimi is currently 2nd in the championship, only 3 points behind Vettel, if Lotus keeps on providing him with a competitive car then there is really no incentive for him to leave the team. He seems to fit in really well at Lotus, and they dont have the politics of a big team.

It will most likely be one of the STR drivers who will get the seat, or they could always go for Grosjean.

[Koz]

It would have been hard for him to win a championship whilst getting regularly smoked by his teammate Massa at the time. Just face it dude, Kimi's F1 mojo at the time was dying.


he was never bored with f1. santander wanted alonso winning a championship not kimi.

I think lack performance in 2008 was mostly attributed with the atmosphere in Ferrari rather than being bored. Nor do I believe Kimi was "smoked". Massa was the better driver that year, but that is not the same Massa we've seen for the last few years.
The rumour mill had aleady started in late 2007 that he would be replaced by Alonso. And I recall an attitude of preference towards Massa by the end of that season. If Kimi wasn't world champion in 2007, Alonso would have replaced him in 2008.

The fact that it was Kimi that was replaced at Ferrari and the massive gamble of an injured Massa - whilst still paying Kimi, IIRC, 25 million to sit out a season of F1?
That surely implies some sort of personal issues, rather than anything related to his racing abilities.


they were even throughout, but yeah kimi was the highest paid person in f1 at the time and wasn't quick enough to justify his salary. i do think ferrari had eyes on alonso from the time he laft mclaren.

So it was justifiable to pay him a massive fortune not to race for a year?

[jens]

The rumours about Kimi are getting stronger. Anyway, it would be interesting and looking forward to it. :)

It would pose a critical issue for Lotus though - who should they hire to fill the void left by Kimi? But this is for another thread. :)

[BDunnell]

It would also pose a critical issue for Red Bull — what's the point of Toro Rosso if it can't produce any drivers to fill the void Webber's departure would leave?

[CNR]

It would also pose a critical issue for Red Bull — what's the point of Toro Rosso if it can't produce any drivers to fill the void Webber's departure would leave? Toro Rosso may no longer be seen as the junior team next year Toro Rosso planning switch to Renault engines for 2014 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105416) Toro Rosso planning switch to Renault engines for 2014
It is our target to have the same engine as Red Bull Racing is using, to use the synergies that are possible from the regulations side, that is the reason why," he said about the change of supplier."We are in negotiations with Renault and then we will see. No contract has been signed so far."
Toro Rosso believes the move to Renault will help it make competitive gains because it will be able to work more closely with its sister team, as well as be able to use Red Bull's gearbox rather than have to make its own.

[Knock-on]

Kimi was pissed off in his last year at Ferrari. He had just won a (rather fortunate) Wdc and was being benched. Would piss me off too.

Im rather uneasy with the prospect of having 4 renault powered bulls out there. They can afford to have a decent driver in Webbers seat and have a couple of rear gunners.

[faster69]

i don't think it affected his performance much. 07 there wasn't much between massa and kimi, except massa had more retirements. the expectation was that he'd blow massa away like schumacher did. 08 there wasn't much between them either.

[CNR]

Alonso :cool: how well do vettel and kimi get on ? F1Today.net - Formule 1-nieuws, live verslag, live updates, f1 test, uitslagen, gp2, gp3 (http://www.f1today.net/en/news/marko-denies-reports-red-bull-could-quit-f1-over-multi21)
A photo of Webber dining with Red Bull's arch-enemy Ferrari driver Fernando Alonso in Dubai was posted on the drivers' Twitter feeds, triggering another wave of rumours. Marko said: "It's nice that there are at least two friends in formula one."