2013 Malaysian Grand Prix Thread

[Tazio]

McLaren donkeys

[donKey jote]

meanwhile 33 seconds way back at the ranch, a respectable P5 for Massa :mad:

[steveaki13]

Its racing

Its Delta time driving actually most of the time

[henners88]

Mercedes managing their tyres better than anyone here, Vettel may have a 3 lap advantage but will it work out? He's faster than Hamilton at the moment.

[henners88]

Hamilton forced to let Vettel through.. Damn fuel saving! lol

[donKey jote]

even kimi can cry like a baby :eek: :( :p

[rjbetty]

I hear this is Alonso's 200th GP today. Maybe I can dig up that old disastrous landmark GPs thread. :p

I think the next landmark is 100 for Sutil. I count this as his 92nd today. :)

Haha Kimi shouting on the radio again!!

[henners88]

even kimi can cry like a baby :eek: :(
He was rather nasty to Lee McKenzie yesterday too. I like the guy for his driving but he can be unnecessarily rude at times when dealing with the press. If Hamilton had behaved that way, we'd be hearing about it!

[donKey jote]

If Hamilton had behaved that way, we'd be hearing about it!
or Alonso :p

[rjbetty]

Webber's my driver of the race so far. A good start from 5th(!) and leading with 14 laps to go...

[henners88]

or Alonso :p
Quite :)

[rjbetty]

Hamilton has to do the last 14 laps on already scrubbed tyres.

I predict a Sutil-like slide down the order at the end... :(

[henners88]

Fantastic racing by Webber!!!

[donKey jote]

Turkey revisited? :p

[pino]

Come on Mark !!!

[rjbetty]

Come on webber!!

[donKey jote]

barbie vs ham, webb vs seb :up:

[Tazio]

Yea' Mark :s ailor:

[donKey jote]

shame we can't see an Alo vs Massa too ;) :laugh:

[henners88]

shame we can't see an Alo vs Massa too ;) :laugh:
That would never happen lol

[henners88]

Get in Mark!!!

[donKey jote]

balls, webber concedes :p

[pino]

Team order me thinks ;)

[rjbetty]

Come on Mark !!!

Haha you beat me to it. I was going to say Mark as well. :p

[donKey jote]

I'd love to hear seb's whinging at that :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

Was quite a fight though :D

[Garry Walker]

webber - why didnt you put that swine into the wall and crash him out?

[Garry Walker]

Team order me thinks ;)

RB did their best to make the switch in pits.

[henners88]

Webber driver of the race for that fight! :)

[dj_bytedisaster]

webber - why didnt you put that swine into the wall and crash him out?

Because unlike some he is in posession of something called common sense?

[Garry Walker]

Because unlike some he is in posession of something called common sense?

Well, it would have been funny.

[rjbetty]

Oh no, Mark lost it... Awwwwwww

Meanwhile, Esteban Gutierrez is in 10th. Good for the FGP. :p

[donKey jote]

RB did their best to make the switch in pits.

and now he's probably been told to cruise to the end :(

[Garry Walker]

Does anyone else still doubt RB is the fastest car? On clear track Webber was at least as fast as Alonso last race (whereas a certain german driver sucked balls) and today they are in a class of their own.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Looks like Mark cooked his tires Sutil-style in that fight :( I would have preferred the chase to go all the way to the flag

[Tazio]

Massa does Kimi just like old times ;)

[donKey jote]

now barbie whining about the slower teammate in front :p :dozey:

[donKey jote]

there barbie, that's you told ! :laugh:

[Tazio]

Barbie is going to hit Ross with his purse ;)

[donKey jote]

procession time... see you in 4 laps :dozey:

[donKey jote]

now red bull pretending to have problems with the tyres :laugh:

[Tazio]

Felipe baby!

[Garry Walker]

now red bull pretending to have problems with the tyres :laugh:

If only the tyre burst on that car that is leading the race in the last lap and he crashed out - I would laugh for days :laugh:

[donKey jote]

rosberg gets told off ! :laugh:

[dj_bytedisaster]

somebody's going to throw a tantrum. LOL

[Koz]

Barbie will overtake on the last lap :D

[Tazio]

Barbie The Boss is faster than you! ;)

[henners88]

If only the tyre burst on that car that is leading the race in the last lap and he crashed out - I would laugh for days :laugh:
As much as I would love to see Webber finish ahead of Seb, that's not very sporting Garry.

[rjbetty]

Gutierrez was 10th but has done a Sutil and is now the last established team driver... Grrrrr

Meanwhile, seriously, Bottas is very close to a point - Fair Play!

[donKey jote]

max fuel save for ham...
nico being screwed :laugh:

[henners88]

A bit of a cock up by Merc on the fuel. I sympathise with Nico for being upset.

[rjbetty]

Barbie is going to hit Ross with his purse ;)

That is mean!

But I admit that was quite funny.

[henners88]

Seb due for a rollicking when behind closed doors lol

[Tazio]

Nico got burned big time :down:

[donKey jote]

oh well, well done webber, rosberg and massa

and hulk and grosjean

[donKey jote]

ooh nico handbags !

"remember this one...! " :laugh:

[AndyL]

If Rosberg had the same approach as Vettel, he would have DRSed Hamilton down the back straight on the last lap.

[rjbetty]

Nico got burned big time :down:

Yah I have to say I think that's true. Lewis was very slow having to save fuel and tyres. I think it would have been better for Nico to get through and be better placed to take advantage of a Red Bull mishap and just be safer from behind.

I think Mercedes did just prefer to have their flagship famous driver to take the podium plaudits...

[donKey jote]

the feed isn't showing the brawl betwen seb and mark :devil:

[Tazio]

Those Mercedes team orders were rank.

[donKey jote]

oooh cold shoulders from mark :p
looks like vettel was a vewy naughty boy !

[donKey jote]

nico was a good boy and misses the podium
seb was naught and gets the win

handbags all around :laugh: :D

[ShiftingGears]

Those Mercedes team orders were rank.

I didn't like them one bit. But as Brundle said, it was certainly part of luring Hamilton to Mercedes in the first place.

The footage from the weigh-in room was utterly fantastic. So hostile.

[henners88]

Nice atmosphere. Newey not at all impressed with Seb and Mark looking like he'll smash his face in later on lol. Hamilton looking glum too.

[N4D13]

I think Rosberg is going to regret this. I wouldn't expect him to throw a tantrum, but, at the same time, if it had been Lewis behind him, hell would have probably broken loose. Hey, for all the drill about McLaren not respecting their drivers' individuality, and in the end, it's not like Mercedes seems to be much better at that when it comes to the actual racing.

[Robinho]

Multi 21 apparently, and Seb ignored the message, while Nico did what he was told. real pity for Button, I think he would have not been far from challenging the limping Mercs at the end such was his pace, but for the wheel mistake in the pits.

Sent from the moon using a shoe

[donKey jote]

ooh handbags from mark with brundle :laugh:

[truefan72]

there will be a lot of questions asked at the RBRcamp tonight
the one thing I know for sure is that Marko will side with vettel
I'm not too please with the Hamilton Rosberg orders too, but that's the world we live in now.
Hamilton has been on the receiving end of such others early in 2007

I think that Vettel got the order not to pass and did so anyway
Mark showed that he had the pace, even after Vettel's absurd comments of Webber being too slow which he wasn't

[janneppi]

Good job Mark for sticking it to to Vettel in the post race interview.

[donKey jote]

Brundle is good, asking the right questions :laugh:

[truefan72]

wow Webber exposing RBR and Vettel on the podium

and Hamilton shows class in crediting Nico, saying he feels a bit awful about the one being on podium
For all folks say about Hamilton. He showed humility on the podium, while Vettel showed arrogance

We will be talking about this situation and its fallout for the next 2 weeks

[AndyL]

Respect to Hamilton for expressing mixed feelings about getting on the podium by team orders, and taking it on the chin for the comedy pit stop.

[Tazio]

Yes very big of The Boss :up:

[ShiftingGears]

Mark: Seb makes his own decisions and will have protection as usual.

...I'll get the popcorn

[N4D13]

wow Webber exposing RBR and Vettel on the podium
I wasn't really watching the podium ceremony. What did I miss?

[truefan72]

Wow, even Marko is not defending vettel
There will be fallout from this
Webber told to turn the engine down, then vettel passes anyway,
Marko being honest for once and lays it out on the table, even though he takes a jibe at mercedes at the same time

[donKey jote]

I wasn't really watching the podium ceremony. What did I miss?

you donkey ! :p

[AndyL]

Damon Hill is great value: "Jacque Villeneuve stole my lunch once" :)

[N4D13]

you donkey ! :p
Does that make me part of the family? :p

[truefan72]

I wasn't really watching the podium ceremony. What did I miss?

he pretty much said he was told to turn the engine down, and they were told to hold station and Vettel did not listen, he then said, RBR will protect Vettel anyway

This is similar to the mclaren situation "ironically" at Turkey with button/hamilton a few years ago, and I wonder how Hamilton would have reacted if Button kept first and won the race

and Now stupid Horner is trying to say that "both" drivers decided to race each other even after being told to hold station. come on Horner, just say that Vettel screwed up and Webber did nothing wrong

[dj_bytedisaster]

Nicki Lauda is just blasting his own team for keeping Nico behind on German TV.

[donKey jote]

to be honest, I also think Nico should have been allowed to pass, as Ham's fuel consumption was self-inflicted.
And Webber was screwed by Vettel, who was a vewy naughty boy.

[Ranger]

I wasn't really watching the podium ceremony. What did I miss?

Webber saying that he was told the race was over and he was told to turn his engine down.

Vettel turned his engine up and then passed of his own accord, breaking team orders in doing so.

I'm all for racing.

Breaking a deal, on the other hand, is poor form.

[greencroft]

Wow, Mark and Seb in the pre-podium room - if looks could kill. Proper bit of cold shoulder!

[Tazio]

This is a bit of a black eye for F1 in general. :(

[rjbetty]

ooh handbags from mark with brundle :laugh:

Oooh what did he say? Do tell.

[ShiftingGears]

Oooh what did he say? Do tell.

"Seb makes his own decisions and will have protection as usual".

[dj_bytedisaster]

Breaking a deal, on the other hand, is poor form.

He might have shot himself in the foot though. What do you think will happen if they asked Mark to let him pass in the closing stages of the championship? No more easy passes for Vettel. So in a roubdabout way it might turn out a blessing in disguise :D

[Garry Walker]

Wow, that is just disgusting. That swine is not 1% man, he is nothing but a backstabbing little ****. Webber should have punched his lights out.

[Tazio]

Even Horner admited that Seb was out of line on the US broadcast :eek:

[truefan72]

to be honest, I also think Nico should have been allowed to pass, as Ham's fuel consumption was self-inflicted.
And Webber was screwed by Vettel, who was a vewy naughty boy.

I can't argue with that
It is early enough in the season where hopefully that 5 point gap could have been overcome, plus they had 3-4 covered whichever way
But alas, team orders are allowed now and while one team showed class in dealing with it, the other were self imploding despite their dominant victory

The only thing I don't know is if Hamilton used up more fuel, or if the car was underfueled a bit too much.
But either way, Nico deserved P3 and Webber the victory,
Mentally i had even settled for a solid 4th after the hamilton pit stop mistake
Nico didn't put a foot wrong today and my driver did

[steveaki13]

Wow. I enjoyed that race. A crazy damp start and 20 laps of action. Then some hard racing to have the top 4 together, then the team mate racing and now all the fallout. Plenty to talk about over the next few weeks.

[Garry Walker]

Seb due for a rollicking when behind closed doors lol

Marko will defend him.

What this has shown is what a fraud, hypocrite and an all-round **** a certain world champion is.

[donKey jote]

"Multi 21" means 2 stays ahead of 1 according to RTL :)

Seb says he's sorry :eek: , "he didn't do it on purpose" :crazy: !

[donKey jote]

Long faces all around at the post-race interview :laugh:

[Garry Walker]

"Multi 21" means 2 stays ahead of 1 according to RTL :)

Seb says he's sorry :eek: , "he didn't do it on purpose" :crazy: !

LOL. He must be retarded then, he looks a bit like he has Down syndrome anyway.

[Ranger]

"Helmut Marko confirms Red Bull instructed their drivers to hold position" - Sky TV

All you need to know.

...But then again what's going to happen? Make him pick up 20 pieces of paper in the playground?

Disgraceful.

[henners88]

Marko will defend him.

What this has shown is what a fraud, hypocrite and an all-round **** a certain world champion is.
Marko condemned him when interviewed its worth noting.

[Garry Walker]

"Helmut Marko confirms Red Bull instructed their drivers to hold position" - Sky TV

All you need to know.

...But then again what's going to happen? Make him pick up 20 pieces of paper in the playground?

Disgraceful.

Yep, nothing will happen. Child will just say he didn't do it on purpose and that is it.

[AndyL]

But alas, team orders are allowed now and while one team showed class in dealing with it, the other were self imploding despite their dominant victory

Yes you would have to hope that if positions are reversed later in the season, Nico will know he will get the same benefit as Lewis got today. If he gets that assurance then everyone will be happy in that team - including Hamilton I would guess, given his comments on the podium. But it's going to take more than a press conference apology to smooth things over at Red Bull.

[Knock-on]

On which lap will Ferrari allow Alonso past Massa? ;)

Planned for Lap 2 :laugh:

[truefan72]

In the media press conference, Vettel apologizes to webber
too little too late IMO, if he knew he did wrong he should have given that position back

This is pretty much the identical situation that Mclaren faced in turkey with Button/Hamilton
and thankfully it turned out well, although it was dicey for a few moments

[donKey jote]

Planned for Lap 2 :laugh:

Happened at the start instead ;)
and massa then went backwards in the race as usual, except with no excuses this time as Alonso was out :p

[Tazio]

Planned for Lap 2 :laugh: Turn 2 :dozey:

[dj_bytedisaster]

There's one positive aspect in the RB debacle though - Gary & Co have now something proper to bitch and moan about :D

Driver of the day for me is Nico Rosberg. Pretty professional and not looking like po'ed child after being screwed over by the team. I'm pretty sure there'll be a race later on where Lewis won't make it too hard to be overtaken by Nico.

[N4D13]

One could only wonder what would have happened if Alonso hadn't taken himself out. Massa lost a lot of time and positions in the opening laps, but it's rather hard to imagine Fernando doing the same. It's not like Massa is really comfortable on wet conditions.

[A FONDO]

where the heck is Massa in all this :mad:

Had Fernando not retired, some wise-guys here would have said that the team sacked the poor brazilian on purpose

[Garry Walker]

In the media press conference, Vettel apologizes to webber
too little too late IMO, if he knew he did wrong he should have given that position back

Really? That makes him an even more a swine. If he was a man he would stand by his decision, if he was sorry about it he would not have done it.

[ShiftingGears]

Really? That makes him an even more a swine. If he was a man he would stand by his decision, if he was sorry about it he would not have done it.

Agreed 100%.

[truefan72]

Very nice and classy comments by Nico Rosberg to sky
He pretty much summed up the situation even better than I would have been able to
this might actually strengthen the relationship and team IMO

[jens]

What a fantastic race - Malaysia has given us a thriller again! And team orders and conflicts already in the second race of the season in two teams! Had flashbacks to Turkey 2010, when Webber was leading of the two Red Bulls and Mercedes-powered cars right behind. And then the battles between two team-mates in both teams!

McLaren again showing its weakness with poor pitstop ruining a good race by Button and Pérez getting his strategy wrong by pitting on the penultimate lap almost like Hamilton two years ago - what was that?

Lotus seemed to have decent pace in the dry, but as they are not going well in the wet, qualifying and early phase of the race dented their challenge.

Incredibly challenging situation for both Horner and Brawn, but probably before the races they haven't discussed each scenario properly through, so that the whole team would have the same understanding of the calls. That's how the problems have arisen and each driver has their own personal interpretation of situations. Webber and Rosberg rightfully have a feeling of being robbed. But life goes on still. :)

[Ranger]

In the media press conference, Vettel apologizes to webber
too little too late IMO, if he knew he did wrong he should have given that position back

Yeah.

I'm sure he's really sorry for winning the race. :\

[donKey jote]

seb is vewy vewy sowwy in the RTL interview, "but at least it was a good result for the team" :dozey:

[Garry Walker]

seb is vewy vewy sowwy in the RTL interview, "but at least it was a good result for the team" :dozey:

LOL.

[Ari]

Wow, that is just disgusting. That swine is not 1% man, he is nothing but a backstabbing little ****. Webber should have punched his lights out.

I was hoping he would actually.

Webber deserves so much more than running around #2 to that idiot. How many times has Webber helped Seb? And he gets this in return. Not good enough. Webber should no longer share his setups with Seb either.

Disgusting.

[Ari]

In the media press conference, Vettel apologizes to webber
too little too late IMO, if he knew he did wrong he should have given that position back

This is pretty much the identical situation that Mclaren faced in turkey with Button/Hamilton
and thankfully it turned out well, although it was dicey for a few moments

Agree. An apology after collecting the points is stupid and absurd. He knew exactly what he was doing. If he found his conscience he should have let Mark pass.

RBR had better do something public about this and their World Champion*.

[Knock-on]

Fair play to Nico for respecting the orders. I should imagine it was whoever was ahead after final Pit Stops and it shows what a good team player and person he is.

Seb. What a tosser. Webber turns the engine down as both drivers were told to and Seb breezes past and steals the win. Very silly move because Webber is no Lap Dog and will take matters into his own hands. I don't expect Seb to get any easy passes in the future ;)

[steveaki13]

Seb says he's sorry :eek: , "he didn't do it on purpose" :crazy: !

:dozey:

[A FONDO]

Webber deserves so much more than running around #2 to that
Webber has had 4938569345498578934779543 opportunities in the last years to show he deserves it more than Vettel... and failed in quite a lot of them. It's all his fault.

[Tazio]

Newey telling Seb how lame his pass was :p :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDa3Mll7c8s

[steveaki13]

Seb is looking worse by making an apology.

He should just man up and say "I am a champion and I have won a race and dont care."

In reality he should just be ruthless. If he is going to win races like that then I have no problem with it as its a sign of a cold hearted, cut throat driver who will win a 4th title, but dont moan about Webber doing the same thing, dont make out your sorry and just say tough cheese Mark.

Can't imagine Senna saying sorry. He would have just won it and said deal with it.


Reminds me a bit of Schumacher in Austria 2002 when he put Barrichello onto the top of the podium and gave the throphy. If your happy to take the points then man up and take the throphy or Boos.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Fair play to Nico for respecting the orders. I should imagine it was whoever was ahead after final Pit Stops and it shows what a good team player and person he is.

Seb. What a tosser. Webber turns the engine down as both drivers were told to and Seb breezes past and steals the win. Very silly move because Webber is no Lap Dog and will take matters into his own hands. I don't expect Seb to get any easy passes in the future ;)

If Vettel is really sorry about it, there'll be a chance to give that win back. I wouldn't be surprised if he did that in one of the coming races. Doesn't make right what he did, but at least he could claw some respect back. But he sure as hell won't get any freebies from Mark anymore...

[Mifune]

LOL. He must be retarded then, he looks a bit like he has Down syndrome anyway.

Would you mind elaborating on this a little for me......







Stay classy.

[DexDexter]

Fair play to Nico for respecting the orders. I should imagine it was whoever was ahead after final Pit Stops and it shows what a good team player and person he is.

Seb. What a tosser. Webber turns the engine down as both drivers were told to and Seb breezes past and steals the win. Very silly move because Webber is no Lap Dog and will take matters into his own hands. I don't expect Seb to get any easy passes in the future ;)

Fair play yes, but you know it pretty much cements Nico as the number two driver, a team player like Rubens Barrichello who is never going to win anything.

[jas123f1]

I think that there is only one thing to do ... Vettel must pay back this to Webber ... before the year is the end ... I like him and he is a great racer ... but this was NOT fair play ... :( ..

[Ari]

PARAPHRSING.

Webber

"thankfully we've 3 weeks till the next GP, so that's great. I;m going to go home to do some surfing and see what comes up in my mind".

"A lot of things were going on in my mind in the last 15 laps, so let's see if some time away changes anything".

Well, did we just see Webbers last race?

Seb

"I was shocked to hear that there were orders, I was un aware of this and I apologised. I did not do it deliberately. Mark should have won."

Read more: markwebberforum.com - The Official Unofficial Mark Webber Forum - Race (http://markwebberforum.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=malaysia2013&thread=9174&page=19#ixzz2OSA5mjGg)

[steveaki13]

Jense reckons he had one less stop and could have got amongst the Mercedes, such a shame. I think Jenson drove vey well today.

[jens]

Seb is looking worse by making an apology.

He should just man up and say "I am a champion and I have won a race and dont care."

In reality he should just be ruthless. If he is going to win races like that then I have no problem with it as its a sign of a cold hearted, cut throat driver who will win a 4th title, but dont moan about Webber doing the same thing, dont make out your sorry and just say tough cheese Mark.

Can't imagine Senna saying sorry. He would have just won it and said deal with it.


Reminds me a bit of Schumacher in Austria 2002 when he put Barrichello onto the top of the podium and gave the throphy. If your happy to take the points then man up and take the throphy or Boos.

I think you have got some good thoughts. It looks like Vettel is a fierce and ruthless fighter, who doesn't want to yield nor give away wins if he gets a sniff at them. From that point of view he reminds some of the greats of the past. But he has got to play a certain role consistently. He is young and will mature and learn with each situation. As it is, he is confusing himself at the moment too. Now it is time to make a decision, which kind of driver he wants to be in the future.

Like Ferrari had to decide after Austria 2002, how to go on, because they couldn't take such blatant team orders again.

Drivers refusing to obey to team orders? I remember back in early 1981 Reutemann refused to give up a win to Jones. Since then Frank Williams hasn't liked team orders. :p :

[steveaki13]

Did you hear Marko say

"Its not like Mercedes here, where there is a clear 1-2 in driver terms."

Naughty Helmet. Sticking a boot in.

[Garry Walker]

Did you hear Marko say

"Its not like Mercedes here, where there is a clear 1-2 in driver terms."

.
He said that? LOL.

[steveaki13]

He said that? LOL.

I dont think it was word for word but he did say we dont have 1-2 while they do basically.

[naffnaff]

Long time lurker but first post on here.

Does anyone else remember Mark trying to get past Seb a couple of years ago when being told not to? Only not being able to.

[Dave B]

I'd actually respect Vettel if he said "so what, that's why I'm a champion". He's ruthless and clearly doesn't care how he wins just so long as he does. Honestly I don't have much of a problem with that: it's not a gentlemens' club, it's a fiercely competitive sport. What I do have a problem with, however, is Red Bull's (and Horner's in particular) failure to deal with their drivers. Horner didn't seem remotely bothered after the race, he knows that any attempt to chastise Sebastian is futile.

They've created a rod for their own back by telling Mark he's joint #1 when he clearly isn't seen that way. Either they should have hired a subservient #2 who knows where he stands, or let their two drivers slug it out on the track. If and when one of them is fighting for a championship then of course use team tactics, but in only the second race of the year we were denied a proper race. I'd love to have seen Mark try to re-pass Vettel, with all the risks that entails.

[Dave B]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/544072_10200641915508768_267401415_n.jpg

^HT to various people on Facebook

[TMorel]

What a team player Seb is. In an effort to spur Mark on - we all know Webber performs better when he feels wrong done by - Vettel generously sacrificed his good reputation just to help give Mark the psychological edge he craves.
Top bloke for someone so young *nods*

[Garry Walker]

Long time lurker but first post on here.

Does anyone else remember Mark trying to get past Seb a couple of years ago when being told not to? Only not being able to.

Mark backed off there, he didn't actually go for the move.

[AJP]

Marko and Seb stoop to a new low !!
I didn't think it was possible. But they have!!

[dj_bytedisaster]

Both RB and Mercedes were asking for trouble. Team orders in just the second race is just silly.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Marko and Seb stoop to a new low !!
I didn't think it was possible. But they have!!

Marko didn't have anything to do with it. In fact he was quite po'ed about Vettel, which must be a first.

[jens]

Long time lurker but first post on here.

Does anyone else remember Mark trying to get past Seb a couple of years ago when being told not to? Only not being able to.

I think you mean Silverstone 2011, when Mark was having a go at Seb in the final few laps.

Yeah, both drivers are fierce fighters and don't want to yield. It is a very competitive athmosphere in the team and hard for Horner to handle for sure. I think as long as the drivers don't crash Turkey 2010-style, he can be "satisfied" to put it this way.

[zako85]

Wow, Mark and Seb in the pre-podium room - if looks could kill. Proper bit of cold shoulder!

To be fair, from the last couple of years I didn't get the idea that Mark was a great team player either. He gave no quarter to Seb most of the time. The only way to get Webber out of way was to order him into pits. This duo is great IMO.


I do start to think of Vettel as a usually being jerk. First, he was whinning on the radio in the first half of the race that they need to get Webber out of his way, because Webber is slower. Yet, Webber was setting fastest lap time. And then Seb breaks orders and overtakes Web while being told to hold the position. A sign of being a jerk and an egoist, it seems to me.

[Whyzars]

Give the drivers a bloody fuel gauge and let them make their own decisions for fuel management and maintenance.

Pit assisted fuel management is a driver aid and should be treated like any other driver aid ie. outlawed.

[Garry Walker]

South Park - Justin Bieber dies (HD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-XOsurYbwE)

:laugh:

[Garry Walker]

I do start to think of Vettel as a usually being jerk. First, he was whinning on the radio in the first half of the race that they need to get Webber out of his way, because Webber is slower. Yet, Webber was setting fastest lap time. And then Seb breaks orders and overtakes Web while being told to hold the position. A sign of being a jerk and an egoist, it seems to me.

Something I have said for a long time. The guy is the biggest jerk in F1. I think I have far more respect for Lance Armstrong and Ben Johnson than for him.

[The Black Knight]

To be honest, and I'm not a Vettel fan, but Webber can't pontificate about following team orders. In the 2011 British GP Webber was told to hold station and not try and overtake Seb but he still tried to overtake. He didn't manage to pass Seb but he had no issue trying to overtake him.

[ShiftingGears]

Whilst I wasn't happy with the result, the race along with everything surrounding it was absolutely spectacular. I was thoroughly entertained.

[Garry Walker]

Sebastian Vettel vs Mark Webber 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix Team Radio Extra - Dailymotion-Video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyft1o_sebastian-vettel-vs-mark-webber-2013-malaysian-grand-prix-team-radio-extra_auto#.UU7weFfRJHf)

[zako85]

Both RB and Mercedes were asking for trouble. Team orders in just the second race is just silly.


Clearly, the team orders were to preserve the positions and get the cars home safely. From RBR's and Mercedes's points of view, by the end of the pit stops their cars had already accomplished everything their teams hoped for. They just needed to bring it home. There is no way either Mercedes car could have caught RBRs. What the teams wanted was to prevent same team drivers from clashing with each other the way it happened before. A wise decision IMO.

[Knock-on]

Both RB and Mercedes were asking for trouble. Team orders in just the second race is just silly.

Quite a few teams let drivers race to the final pit stop and if they can't get the job done by then, to hold station and bring it home.

Although at this stage of the season, I would have rather seen them duking it out, in all probability, if RB and Merc had of let drivers race, then they wouldn't have come back with 2 cars finishing for each team.

As a fan, I would rather see the battle but if the drivers agree to play a team game, and there is no designated clear number 1 driver, then it's pretty low to stb your team mate in the back like Seb did but full qudos to Nico for being a man.

[BDunnell]

Although at this stage of the season, I would have rather seen them duking it out, in all probability, if RB and Merc had of let drivers race, then they wouldn't have come back with 2 cars finishing for each team.

What does that say for the standards of racecraft in modern F1?

[Ranger]

Both RB and Mercedes were asking for trouble. Team orders in just the second race is just silly.

Not as silly as this:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yQmQ1ZvYAok/TAOGK8K0__I/AAAAAAAAB2g/aqK5LQsBMD0/s1600/gp_crash_585_722263a.jpg

...and this:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/f1fanatics/2007Round15FujiRacevettelwebber.jpg

[dj_bytedisaster]

To be honest, and I'm not a Vettel fan, but Webber can't pontificate about following team orders. In the 2011 British GP Webber was told to hold station and not try and overtake Seb but he still tried to overtake. He didn't manage to pass Seb but he had no issue trying to overtake him.

Not to forget his antics in the Brazil race 2012. I'm not sure that Mark has reasons to point fingers, but still doesn't make Vettel's move right. I just think Mark shouldn't throw stones as long as he's in the glas house.

[zako85]

If it wasn't for the great nuances, I would have discounted this GP as another "tire managed show and lottery". However, the devil was in the details...

1. Alonso plows his car into Vettel after turn one, refuses to pit when he can, ends the race in kitty litter. This was really bizzare. He probably has more to explaining to do after the race than Vettel, Hamilton, or Ross Brawn.

2. Hamilton briefly stops in McLaren pit box to say hi to his old crew. A great comic relief. This was cute.

3. Lotus cars are not as mighty is it was thought. They were clearly struggling against the "weak" McLaren cars, Sauber, and a few others. I think after 4-5 races they will drop to their "usual" place in WCC.

4. Force India pits Sutil and Diresta on the same lap. Di Resta waits parked as the crew has problems changing Sutil's tires. This was just stupid.

5. Force India botches Di Resta's pit stop.

6. Both Force India cars retire... what's up. Did they just decide to have a "free" engine or transmission change?

7. McLaren botches Button's tire change, dropping him from a great, possibly top 5, points position down to like 16th place. Then calls him into pits on the last lap.

8. The weird "stand off" between Mercedes drivers.

9. The stand off between RBR cars.

10. The most tense F1 podium ceremony we have seen in a long time.

Overall, a great race!

There will be a lot to discuss for three weeks until the next race in China.

[ShiftingGears]

What does that say for the standards of racecraft in modern F1?

I don't think there is anything lacking on the whole with racecraft in F1, I think it is more about the culture of micromanaging everything. Something that perhaps couldn't be done without the vast information available to the teams thanks to sensors on the cars.

[jens]

By the way, regarding the fuel saving of Mercedes I just remembered a similar situation, which was solved in a different way. Belgian GP in 2011. Schumacher was catching Rosberg and late in the race Rosberg was told to save fuel. So Schumacher overtook him and got 5th place.

So I think Rosberg feels that Brawn hasn't been consistent in his application of team orders and felt uncomfortable during the race.

[ShiftingGears]

By the way, regarding the fuel saving of Mercedes I just remembered a similar situation, which was solved in a different way. Belgian GP in 2011. Schumacher was catching Rosberg and late in the race Rosberg was told to save fuel. So Schumacher overtook him and got 5th place.

So I think Rosberg feels that Brawn hasn't been consistent in his application of team orders and felt uncomfortable during the race.

Brundle mentioned that the most probable scenario is that Mercedes would have offered Hamilton a contract whereby he is the undisputed #1 in the team from the outset, which explains what unfolded in the race.

I also think that's what we saw unfold in the race.

[The Black Knight]

Brundle mentioned that the most probable scenario is that Mercedes would have offered Hamilton a contract whereby he is the undisputed #1 in the team from the outset, which explains what unfolded in the race.

I also think that's what we saw unfold in the race.

Pure speculation from Brundle and it irritated me when I heard him say that. I expected more from him. It's just stirring the pot for the sake of it. Ross Brawn himself came out and said that Hamilton hadn't asked for any special treatment and he'd be an idiot to give it considering how fast Nico is. I personally feel this is total rubbish and completely unfounded.

[BDunnell]

I don't think there is anything lacking on the whole with racecraft in F1, I think it is more about the culture of micromanaging everything. Something that perhaps couldn't be done without the vast information available to the teams thanks to sensors on the cars.

I wasn't really referring to that, but the suggestion that, had the RBs and Mercs been allowed to race, they wouldn't all have finished. About micro-managing, I agree — it's unnecessary. Because the technology exists doesn't mean it should be used.

[Tazio]

....Which has me thinking the only thing about Hamilton’s fuel situation which warrants Rosberg having a go (and I'm not slagging Lewis) is that there is a very high probability that the decision to run with minimum fuel was his race engineer's and his, although I could be wrong. If this is the case and he ran lighter than NR, NR should have been allowed to race for the win beyond the final pit stop all the way to the end of the race, as I don't think he (NR) should have had to compromise his (sufficient fuel for pressing all the way to the end) strategy.

[DexDexter]

Clearly, the team orders were to preserve the positions and get the cars home safely. From RBR's and Mercedes's points of view, by the end of the pit stops their cars had already accomplished everything their teams hoped for. They just needed to bring it home. There is no way either Mercedes car could have caught RBRs. What the teams wanted was to prevent same team drivers from clashing with each other the way it happened before. A wise decision IMO.

Well one thing is pretty sure, there aren't going to be team orders at Red Bull any longer. They can say what they want on the radio, but Webber isn't going to yield under any circumstances after this and today we saw what Vettel's position is.

[Mintexmemory]

Well it looks like Herr Digit has just become the spiritual successor to Didier Pironi - not a nice place to be!

[wedge]

What does that say for the standards of racecraft in modern F1?

Its not like team mates haven't crashed into each other before in past generations.

Radio excerpts made public has given the inner workings of teams and drivers.

[Mia 01]

I feel sorry for both Mark and Nico today. I use to cheer for Seb but today that´s not the case, his action can harm him later in the year I fear.

Same thing for the Nico/Lewis deal.

[tfp]

I feel sorry for both Mark and Nico today. I use to cheer for Seb but today that´s not the case, his action can harm him later in the year I fear.

Same thing for the Nico/Lewis deal.

At least Hamilton was gracious on the podium "it should be nico standing here". And at least he didn't go to the press and sell us a load of BS apologies like bieber.
I just wish the Mercedes was a little bit quicker, that would have been a race, the two Merck and the rbr's.

[gloomyDAY]

I love the TV show The Wire. I think D'Angelo Barksdale said something in reference to Vettel after today's race, and it was something along the lines of "sometimes, niggas just got to git got. Ya, feel?" So, yes, Vettel is going "to git got" sometime this season.

Also, why didn't Mark shove Vettel against the wall? Instead he sat down and moped "Multi-21, Seb. Multi-21" while on his ass. Mark should've at least picked a fight with the little squirt and got into Marko's face for good measure. Sad that Mark's Ol' man had to be there to witness his son getting punked by Vettel.

[tfp]

I love the TV show The Wire. I think D'Angelo Barksdale said something in reference to Vettel after today's race, and it was something along the lines of "sometimes, niggas just got to git got. Ya, feel?" So, yes, Vettel is going "to git got" sometime this season.

Also, why didn't Mark shove Vettel against the wall? Instead he sat down and moped "Multi-21, Seb. Multi-21" while on his ass. Mark should've at least picked a fight with the little squirt and got into Marko's face for good measure. Sad that Mark's Ol' man had to be there to witness his son getting punked by Vettel.

it will happen. No one can get away with it forever, especially when there's grosjean and pastor on the grid!

[gloomyDAY]

I liked this view of the Weber/Vettel scrap. Sebastian Vettel vs Mark Webber 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix Team Radio Extra - Dailymotion-Video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyft1o_sebastian-vettel-vs-mark-webber-2013-malaysian-grand-prix-team-radio-extra_auto#.UU9mrFs5yXT)

Pretty clear to me that Vettel didn't give a damn about team orders, so Webber should play the same game. Helmut Marko will probably have to step in to make sure Webber doesn't chop Vettel at China.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Webber should play the same game.

He already did, twice - Silverstone 2011 and Interlagos 2012.

[BDunnell]

Its not like team mates haven't crashed into each other before in past generations.

Again, not really the point I'm making.

[ioan]

He already did, twice - Silverstone 2011 and Interlagos 2012.

Don't hold your breath, modern F1 fans have a memory that lasts about 60-70 laps.

[steveaki13]

Don't hold your breath, modern F1 fans have a memory that lasts about 60-70 laps.

Does my modern f1 memory tell me you quit F1 forum once. ;) :p

Welcome Back though. :)

[wedge]

Again, not really the point I'm making.

Then could you be more specific. Driving standards? Aggressive manoeuvres? The lack of trust and respect?

[gloomyDAY]

Images of Alonso's Ferrari eating the front wing: http://imgur.com/a/jfFVI#2.


He already did, twice - Silverstone 2011 and Interlagos 2012.Silverstone I can acknowledge, and Mark still came behind Vettel. I don't understand what happened at Brazil in 2012. Vettel spun and had to make up ground in order to have enough points for the WDC. How was Vettel's mistake Mark's fault?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Images of Alonso's Ferrari eating the front wing: Photo Album - Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/jfFVI#2).

Silverstone I can acknowledge, and Mark still came behind Vettel. I don't understand what happened at Brazil in 2012. Vettel spun and had to make up ground in order to have enough points for the WDC. How was Vettel's mistake Mark's fault?

He was asked to help Vettel, but instead almost boxed him in at the start and later in the race he was ordered to give way, but didn't, so the team had to call him into the pits to get him out of the way. As I said, Vettel's move was wrong on many levels, but Mark is the last one with a right to complain. He isn't exactly a team player either.

[kfzmeister]

About the best thing that could come out of this RB spat, is some sort of self destructive behavior in the coming races on Vettels part. I mean how exciting if one or both RB's crashed today in the last few laps (Turkey anyone??).
I know a guy that might benefit from that this year and secure his 3rd Title ;)

[AJP]

Marko didn't have anything to do with it. In fact he was quite po'ed about Vettel, which must be a first.

If that's the case, then I'm shocked!

[steveaki13]

In response to Webber in Brazil 2012, it is hard to judge things like blocking in at the start of a race, as a driver is concentrating on all aspects of an F1 start and it wasn't so dangerous to the point of making Vettel take avoiding action. It was just a bit close.

As for the later incident that could be true, but even in late 2012 he had been move out the way and treated badly many times so he was probably already pretty unwilling to help.

I dont think these two drivers ever really got on, probably since Fuji in 2007.

I thought it was fair enough if Seb wants to play it that way, just dont make a stupid, stomach churning apology. Also from Marks Point of View if he has disobeyed team orders before then he should expect nothing better.

Then it becomes an issue of how Red Bull control this situation going forward

[gloomyDAY]

2-lap onboard footage with Vettel and Webber.

F1 2013 - R02 - Vettel vs Webber battle onboard Sepang - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrVaADyuAWM)

[Tazio]

:s tareup: That really was a good dice. It's a shame it is shrouded in controversy.

[gloomyDAY]

:s tareup: That really was a good dice. It's a shame it is shrouded in controversy.Yeah, I just wish Webber pushed Vettel out at that last bout. Instead we just saw Webber get emasculated on-track.

[naffnaff]

Red Bull are claiming the fastest ever pit stop at 2.05s for Mark Webber, with 5 stops for the team under 2.3s.

I am not able to post links but the story is on Red Bulls website.

[jens]

2-lap onboard footage with Vettel and Webber.

F1 2013 - R02 - Vettel vs Webber battle onboard Sepang - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrVaADyuAWM)

Interesting. Strange that Webber braked so early into T4. He was basically side-by-side with Vettel before the braking zone and with a late braking could have defended his track position and tried to block Vettel from getting a better exit. Webber is even a nose ahead into the corner, but Vettel had a much better racing line and gained a position there.