WTCC: How to improve it....

[AndyRAC]

Right, I'm not the biggest fan of it, however, I do think we need a World Championship for 'Touring type cars'. But, it has to be a proper series, not the current mess we have. In fact, I saw a comment from a driver in Motorsport magazine, ".....fly halfway around the world for two 20 minute races...."

So, what cars, tracks and format to we want?
Personally, I think it needs to be 400+BHP, RWD and lots of flames & noise, 10 rounds, with about 50-70 minutes a race.

This is providing Manufacturers want it......

So, fire away. Be as sensible, or ridiculous as you like.

[inimitablestoo]

The obvious thing on the distance is to go back to the mid-80s WTCC/ETCC style and make the races long enough for two-driver affairs. Add a few even longer events such as the Spa 24 Hours and revive the Tourist Trophy at Silverstone (I'd suggest the Bathurst 1000 too, but I doubt you'd prise that away from the V8 Supercars again) and you'd have something like the 1987 World Championship.

The regular rounds needn't be that long - indeed, a series of one-hour races with a driver change would probably make more sense for a touring car category than it did for the now-defunct GT1 World Championship. I've always thought it curious that WTCC races are shorter than their British Championship counterparts - surely a World Championship ought to be the pinnacle? I'm aware that driver change events aren't for everyone though, so perhaps I'd leave it as single-driver for the hour-long events and just bring in guest drivers for the enduros.

As for the cars, something more powerful than the BTCC (again, that idea of a World Championship being the pinnacle) but probably less powerful than a DTM machine, simply because it needs to be attractive to manufacturers. Got to be realistic, as much as I'd like a NASCAR-style V8 soundtrack. Somewhere between the BTCC and DTM in terms of aerodynamics too - more than you'd get on the road cars, but not pseudo-F1 madness.

Right, I'm off to the FIA... :D

[BDunnell]

I've never really cared one jot about whether a WTCC exists. Different countries have different traditions regarding touring car racing. In Britain, the American muscle cars and the 1980s Group A cars were, to some extent, aberrations — the British series has generally been contested by more 'average' family saloons. In Germany and Australia, to name but two, the traditions are different again. There is, therefore, no single touring car formula that appeals worldwide. The WTCC will always be run to whichever rules are in vogue with the FIA at a given time. To some extent, this is sensible — there's no point coming up with a formula unique to a World Championship.

[wedge]

^^^
What he said.

If only DTM adopts the V8SC formula...

[Allyc85]

If only every country had V8 supercar rules and a World Final at the end of the year ;)

[wedge]

If only every country had V8 supercar rules and a World Final at the end of the year ;)

Sidney Olympic Park is an awful Mickey Mouse track....

[inimitablestoo]

I've always liked it myself - although I'd take Bathurst and Surfers Paradise over it any day :D

[inimitablestoo]

Actually, there's one thing they could do with immediate effect - put the Suzuka round on the full Grand Prix circuit and not the pointless West (or is it East?) layout that has been used in the last couple of years.

[Robinho]

Avoiding gp tracks altogether would be a good start, they are too wide and the straights are too long for 300hp tintops, they need more narrow and twisty tracks relative to the F1 style circuits. The majority of the success of the BTCC I believe is down to the quality of the tracks which are largely suited to the size and power of the cars

Sent from the moon using a shoe



Sent from the moon using a shoe

[BDunnell]

Avoiding gp tracks altogether would be a good start, they are too wide and the straights are too long for 300hp tintops, they need more narrow and twisty tracks relative to the F1 style circuits. The majority of the success of the BTCC I believe is down to the quality of the tracks which are largely suited to the size and power of the cars

I've never really agreed with this view, for I think it depends on the F1-style circuits in question. With a lot of them, I take the point. However, the Silverstone GP circuit was always great for BTCC cars in the Super Touring days, so there's no reason it wouldn't be for today's BTCC and WTCC machines.

[wedge]

Avoiding gp tracks altogether would be a good start, they are too wide and the straights are too long for 300hp tintops, they need more narrow and twisty tracks relative to the F1 style circuits. The majority of the success of the BTCC I believe is down to the quality of the tracks which are largely suited to the size and power of the cars

You could say the same for the old Hockenheim or Paul Ricard - I would even add Road America and Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport's wide runways. The straights seemed far too long for contemporary F1 cars let alone DTM or Super Tourers and not necessarily a detriment - some races you had the cars strung out or a slipstreaming dog fight.


I've never really agreed with this view, for I think it depends on the F1-style circuits in question. With a lot of them, I take the point. However, the Silverstone GP circuit was always great for BTCC cars in the Super Touring days, so there's no reason it wouldn't be for today's BTCC and WTCC machines.

You clearly haven't been to Silverstone recently. It's too awkward for the spectator.

For one thing I think the track is too long for 20min races.

BTCC likes to market itself as family friendly but you have to catch a bus to the 'fan zone' and Wing - there's no pedestrian tunnel which is urgently needed. Personally I think the 'fan zone' is a joke. Its very small and feels cramped compared to the expanse of Woodcote.

[BDunnell]

You clearly haven't been to Silverstone recently. It's too awkward for the spectator.

This is true.

[BDunnell]

Watching the WTCC on Eurosport today, one huge improvement that could be made is in the Eurosport coverage. Martin Haven's efforts as commentator are truly embarrassing, and that's not something I say lightly. Saying Max instead of Tom Chilton, forgetting in the second race that Muller had overtaken Tarquini — having himself commentated on the pass — and all sorts of other glaring confusions. Also, as a co-commentator, Matt Neal was no natural. Overall it's just not good enough for a World Championship.

[msratings]

It's a shame.. the WTCC should be the highest level of Touring Car but it seems to be run so badly and have relatively poor TV coverage.

20 minute races need to end and no need to have 2 races back to back at each meeting... 1 longer race would work better and hopefully get a lot more overtaking.... DTM has tyre stops so this should work for WTCC as well.

Eurosport's coverage is erratic at best but at least it is mostly in HD apart from the last race of last year... you know the most important one in the championship....

Any why have a standing start and a rolling start for each of the 2 races... Rolling starts are really only good in oval racing and possibly some endurance races but for a 20 minute sprint race with little overtaking as it is.... why??

[AndySpeed]

The WTCC is run so much more professionally than the BTCC though. All you have to do is take a trip to the WTCC paddock to find that it's a much more enjoyable experience than being in the BTCC paddock.

The standing / rolling start situation offers a good balance and is one that should be considered by more touring car series.

Yes the races are a little short but this is not a WTCC-exclusive problem.

Finally you complain about the TV coverage but many championships would give an arm and a leg for the sort of coverage WTCC gets. Also compared to the farce that is ITV4 it is run a lot more professionally. Don't forget that Eurosport is often free-to-air in countries like Germany - you have to see things from more than just a little British point of view.

With new manufacutrers set to join for 2014, the WTCC is looking to be in rude health.

[Iain]

I think I'm in the minority with you, Andy. I like the WTCC. It's primarily designed for television audiences, so I don't think it matters that the races are short and sharp. I know Martin Haven can get a bit confused at times, but the HD coverage is terrific quality and I really enjoy the Inside WTCC shows midweek. Also they have a good website, one that tells you everything you need to know and more. Not just the basics, incase it confuses the average fan. Plus they let the drivers carry their own cameras and make their own viral video reviews and previews with actual track action. Something for example the BTCC doesn't allow, which I think is very short-sighted.

I've only done the one round at Brands Hatch in 2007, but I found the paddock was a very professional-looking place to be. It looked like a world championship paddock. From what I'm told by friends who have been to the likes of Brno, Portimao and Macau, it's like a big welcoming family that travels across the world. You can even tell from the way the drivers talk to eachother on Twitter, that it's just a pleasant place to be. No bitching, backstabbing or the media trying to stir up arguments. They all seem to get on and genuinely seem happy for eachother when someone wins or comes back to the championship.

The main thing for me is the quality of drivers. I'd watch Muller, Tarquini and Thompson race milk floats if that was all that was on offer. Then you have the established guys like Tom Coronel, Norbert Michelisz and Stefano D'Aste, with the younger guys again such as Oriola coming through.

That wasn't a pro-WTCC and anti-BTCC post, I like both in different ways and don't think you can compare them.

[BDunnell]

Finally you complain about the TV coverage but many championships would give an arm and a leg for the sort of coverage WTCC gets. Also compared to the farce that is ITV4 it is run a lot more professionally.

I don't actually agree with that. Eurosport, with its lack of proper presentation, programmes being delayed with no explanation and so forth I have always felt comes across as an amateurish shambles, though the coverage itself can be good.

[BDunnell]

I think I'm in the minority with you, Andy. I like the WTCC. It's primarily designed for television audiences, so I don't think it matters that the races are short and sharp. I know Martin Haven can get a bit confused at times, but the HD coverage is terrific quality and I really enjoy the Inside WTCC shows midweek. Also they have a good website, one that tells you everything you need to know and more. Not just the basics, incase it confuses the average fan. Plus they let the drivers carry their own cameras and make their own viral video reviews and previews with actual track action. Something for example the BTCC doesn't allow, which I think is very short-sighted.

I've only done the one round at Brands Hatch in 2007, but I found the paddock was a very professional-looking place to be. It looked like a world championship paddock. From what I'm told by friends who have been to the likes of Brno, Portimao and Macau, it's like a big welcoming family that travels across the world. You can even tell from the way the drivers talk to eachother on Twitter, that it's just a pleasant place to be. No bitching, backstabbing or the media trying to stir up arguments. They all seem to get on and genuinely seem happy for eachother when someone wins or comes back to the championship.

The main thing for me is the quality of drivers. I'd watch Muller, Tarquini and Thompson race milk floats if that was all that was on offer. Then you have the established guys like Tom Coronel, Norbert Michelisz and Stefano D'Aste, with the younger guys again such as Oriola coming through.

That wasn't a pro-WTCC and anti-BTCC post, I like both in different ways and don't think you can compare them.

Lots of good points here, as ever. While I remain unconvinced as to the ultimate point of the WTCC, I wouldn't say I dislike it. And I much enjoyed the second Slovak race on Sunday; the first was almost completely devoid of action. As for the quality of drivers, it is hard, I think, to compare those in different championships. A driver who's good in one competitive championship may very well prove disappointing in another.

[christophulus]

The Eurosport coverage is comically bad, full of random unexpected ad breaks. The commentators do a decent job despite that though.

I just think it's a shame there aren't more manufacturer entries in the WTCC - you don't really expect them to spend big on the BTCC any more but surely a world series should have more than Honda and Lada. To have the two previous champions in privateer teams just seems off to me.

[BDunnell]

The Eurosport coverage is comically bad, full of random unexpected ad breaks. The commentators do a decent job despite that though.

Well, they just carry on through, as far as I can tell. Certainly this was the case on Sunday, though whether this was in the WTCC coverage or the preceding cycling, which over-ran, I can't recall.



I just think it's a shame there aren't more manufacturer entries in the WTCC - you don't really expect them to spend big on the BTCC any more but surely a world series should have more than Honda and Lada. To have the two previous champions in privateer teams just seems off to me.

What the point is of the Lada entry, given that it's not a global brand and presumably has no ambitions in that direction, I have no idea.

[AndySpeed]

What the point is of the Lada entry, given that it's not a global brand and presumably has no ambitions in that direction, I have no idea.

Are LADAs available in China and South America?

I wonder what the North Americans will think of the WTCC this season without works Chevrolets, possibly no Fords, and a Russian car manufacturer...


The Eurosport coverage is comically bad, full of random unexpected ad breaks. The commentators do a decent job despite that though.

Surely ITV4 has to be the worst for unexpected ad breaks though and a horrendous quantity of them too?

Also on the topic of Eurosport/WTCC, have you not seen Inside WTCC? It's a great mid-week fly on the wall show.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Surely ITV4 has to be the worst for unexpected ad breaks though and a horrendous quantity of them too?

.

ITV 4 are always going for advert breaks during safety car periods and then returning a few laps after the restart, often missing the lead chance.

[Majks21]

I like to watch videos, but i wouldnt dare to drive one :D

[zako85]

Are LADAs available in China and South America?

I wonder what the North Americans will think of the WTCC this season without works Chevrolets, possibly no Fords, and a Russian car manufacturer...


We don't think much since the series is not getting regular TV coverage here. Last year, the Sonoma race was on TV (yawn), but that's it. We did get a one hour summary of each race off season on Speed TV once all other series were over. I wonder if that is even going to happen this year considering that Speed TV will exist until the end of this summer before being merged into the rest of Fox Sports network.