Why is 33 a sacred number?

[FormerFF]

I'm talking about Indy, of course. Now, I'm basically a sports car guy, so I'm not quite as steeped in the lore of Indy as many of you, but I'm just not getting why having 33 cars is so important.

Look at the starting lineup at St. Pete. You have three teams that enter a total of 8 cars, who are top-notch teams. After that, you have another six or so cars and drivers that could possibly contend for a podium, but aren't very likely to win. After that, you have four more cars that are pretty well relegated to the back half of the field, but are run by professional teams with professional drivers, which gives you your total of 18.

Now, you can occasionally add Marty Roth or Jon Herb or Milka Duno, but none of these are anything more than lapped traffic. In order to get to 33, you've got to drag out a bunch of uncompetitive teams and drivers, plus have your regular teams expand the number of cars they run. I think it is very instructive that the most successful Indy team (Penske) has yet to run a third car. They know that the chances of a non-series driver winning at Indy is extremely slim. And, after all, this is professional racing and winning is where it's at.

So, rather than struggle to get to 33 cars, why not cap the field at 24 or 27 cars? That would help spread some more of the purse money to the slower full season teams, which might help their competitiveness. It's not like years ago when the stock block powered cars would show up for Indy only, and sometimes qualify and run quite well. These added teams will be nothing but lapped traffic.

If I'm missing something here, somebody please let me know. But I'm not seeing what's wrong with reducing the field size.

[ZzZzZz]

Penske has run 3.

As a fellow sports car guy, you should know a thing or two about endurance racing. Attrition can knock out a lot of cars over the 500 miles. You want a decent number still running at the finish. It can also allow the lowest budget team to earn a top-ten, which would be a victory to them.

On the other hand, 33 has acted as a cap to keep the field size managable.

I wouldn't mind adding in an upper and lower cap based on percentages of the average of the top 10 times or something. So, in one extreme cars that couldn't make a (known) minimum speed would be out no matter what. In the other extreme, more than 33 could make the field if the quality ran so deep the sub-33 cars were fast. The normalcy of 33 would remain between the extreme margins.

These margins would be pretty much set by day 4. But, someone getting a top 10 speed on day 4 might bump more than one car. If anything, either of these senarios would add to the excitement. If there aren't 33 worthy cars, there's still a bubble-like threshhold speed to make. If the quality runs so impressively deep - which is a huge story - they have a high threshhold that allows more to earn their way in.

This would make recruiting a large number of Indy-only efforts more palatable to the IRL regulars and their sponsors. Likewise for the non-regulars and thei potential sponsors.

[infoxicated]

After 40 cars started in the inaugural race in 1911, the Contest Board of the American Automobile Association (AAA), the sanctioning body at the time, mandated a formula for limiting the size of a starting field according to the size of the track. It was determined that the safe distance between each car spread equally around a course would be 400 feet, thereby limiting the 2.5-mile Indianapolis Motor Speedway to 33 cars. Speedway President Carl Fisher, however, placed a limit of only 30 cars for the "500" between 1912 and 1914 and did not adopt AAA's 33 maximum until 1915. Although there had been numerous occasions between 1912 and 1928 when the field was not filled, the allowed number was increased during the Depression years to 40 cars between 1930 and 1932 (only 38 made it in 1930) and further to 42 in 1933. The maximum has been at 33 ever since 1934, although extenuating circumstances expanded the field to 35 starters in 1979 and 1997.
http://www.indymotorspeedway.com/500faq.htm#size

[cobre]

my memory is hazy at best, but i don't think penske has run 3 cars in a IRL sanctioned 500.

[ZzZzZz]

my memory is hazy at best, but i don't think penske has run 3 cars in a IRL sanctioned 500.

The relevant part is the Penske organization. The question is if they'd be willing to run a third car. They ran a full 3-car season in CART with all drivers winning. They have extra personnel with their 2-car ALMS effort. (One conflict on a qualifying weekend, but they don't need 3 full crews for qualifying.) They also have this guy named Ryan Briscoe in one of their Porsches.

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't see Roger running a third car on his own dime. But if a sponsor would be willing to pony up the $, I'm sure he'd run a 3rd car. When the money was still flowing, he did it. I don't think it would be against his philosophy to do it again.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Thirty Three cars for the 500 is a tradition. If you know ANYTHING about the history of Indy, tradition is everything. The desire to preserve and manage this tradition is what drove Tony George ( his stated goals in 94 and 95 when he started talking about the idea of the IRL).

To not have 33 cars in the field for a 500 would be a indication that the IRL was a mistake, and despite the lack of bubble day, Tony has gone to great lengths to ensure 33 cars start the 500. IT would be a loss of face to give up 33 cars, and I suspect even if they have to toss a derliect in the seat of a car to run one lap, they will have 33 cars at the start. Just the same way NASCAR always has had 43 starters in Cup races, even if two or three of them retire with handling problems in the first 15 laps.....Of course, lately, NASCAR hasn't had that problem...

[NoFender]

Thirty Three cars for the 500 is a tradition. If you know ANYTHING about the history of Indy, tradition is everything.


Very true!

Here's some info on how 33 came about.


"The American Automobile Association, which was the sport's sanctioning body, in 1912 established a formula for the size of a starting field, based on the length of the track. The underlying idea was that there should be 400 feet of track for each car, which meant that there could be 33 starters at Indy. However, the speedway imposed its own limit of 30 starters from 1912 through 1914 and didn't go to the maximum 33 until 1915."

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am of the opinion that they could safely race close to 50 at Indy but with the 3 abreast starts, it would likely be a wreck fest getting them all going. It seems they have a hard enough time with 33 when they are 3 abreast.

It is one of the quirks I love about Indy, and why I still am a fan, despite my personal dislike for what TG has done that hurts the race. ( the fact I think Tony is actually a nice guy is besides the point ). The tradition of the 33 cant be flushed down the toilet, and knowing that this year they are looking at 35 entries sounds better, but I know if the rules were more open, you would see more entries. The spec nature of the series has made it impossible for one off entries to really come to Indy and compete. That would REALLY make Bubble day another tradtion to watch again if they found a way to get more types of cars in the formula....