Ribbity-rip, Hugo Chavez

[EuroTroll]

One of the giants of modern international politics has passed away. :(

A very charismatic man who put Venezuela on the map for many of us. :up: Know the President of Ecuador? No, of course you don't. But you certainly knew who the President of Venezuela was.

And a truly funny man. :up: We'll always remember his stand-up gigs at the UN and elsewhere, with all the variations of the brilliant "America is Satan" routine.

Now, no longer with us. :(

Poor Maldy. :(

[Rudy Tamasz]

The guy was highly controversial, but unlike most politicians he did not seem mean and corrupt. His people admired him a lot and that will be his ultimate testament. RIP, Commandante.

[Starter]

I doubt he'll be missed much.

[keysersoze]

His vision for his country and love for his people was perhaps admirable, but the execution of that vision was flawed.

If he is admired for his brazen comments and for increasing Venezuela's world profile, I'd say that is a weak legacy, It's debatable whether he truly helped helped the impoverished in his country. Corruption skyrocketed during his presidency

He is admired for much the same reason our President is admired--for his oratory style and manner. The uninformed masses will always eat that up.

[Zico]

Didn't Chavez help bankroll Maldonado into F1? I wonder what Pastor and Frank are thinking right now..


Rest in peace big man.

[Jag_Warrior]

I doubt he'll be missed much.

I know I won't. But I bet Milka Duno, E.J. Viso and Pastor Maldonado will miss him. :D

[EuroTroll]

Looking at what Maldonado has tweeted today - yeah, he'll miss him.

[Garry Walker]

Good riddance to the socialist.

[henners88]

Not really appropriate considering the guy lost his battle with cancer regardless of his political standing. Each to their own though.

[Daniel]

Not really appropriate considering the guy lost his battle with cancer regardless of his political standing. Each to their own though.

Why does it matter? It's not like going up to his family and saying ha ha or anything. The guy was either loved or hated and people will mourn or not mourn in their own way.

Strangely, I felt a bit sad when Saddam was executed, he was probably the first big baddie I remember as a kid.

[Garry Walker]

Not really appropriate considering the guy lost his battle with cancer regardless of his political standing. Each to their own though.

Oh come on, chavez was hardly a guy with a clean sheet. On top of that he was a socialist, so I will repeat what I said - good riddance.

[BDunnell]

Oh come on, chavez was hardly a guy with a clean sheet. On top of that he was a socialist, so I will repeat what I said - good riddance.

So long as you won't mind if people say the same when you go, that's fine.

[Tazio]

RIP and condolences to his family

[BDunnell]

The most realistic comment I've seen today about Chavez: he wasn't as great as those on the left thought he was, he wasn't as bad as those on the right thought he was.

[Garry Walker]

So long as you won't mind if people say the same when you go, that's fine.

Well, hopefully when I go, I will be guilty of less crimes than he was.

[BDunnell]

Well, hopefully when I go, I will be guilty of less crimes than he was.

I'm no Chavez enthusiast, but can you name some of his 'crimes'? By this I mean things that are actual crimes, not things you consider to be crimes, like 'being a bit left-wing'.

[Garry Walker]

I'm no Chavez enthusiast, but can you name some of his 'crimes'? By this I mean things that are actual crimes, not things you consider to be crimes, like 'being a bit left-wing'.

How about human rights abuses in Venezuela or supporting of guerilla organizations in South America?

[Starter]

So long as you won't mind if people say the same when you go, that's fine.
When I go, I won't really care at all about what people will say. Neither will you. When you are gone you are just gone.

[BDunnell]

When I go, I won't really care at all about what people will say. Neither will you. When you are gone you are just gone.

But one would still hope to be looked upon favourably by those one knew or encountered, so it's best, as far as possible, to make efforts to ensure that's the case.

[EuroTroll]

When I go, I won't really care at all about what people will say. Neither will you. When you are gone you are just gone.

I'd like to talk to you about our Lord, Jesus Christ. ;) :p

[ioan]

His vision for his country and love for his people was perhaps admirable, but the execution of that vision was flawed.

If he is admired for his brazen comments and for increasing Venezuela's world profile, I'd say that is a weak legacy, It's debatable whether he truly helped helped the impoverished in his country. Corruption skyrocketed during his presidency

He is admired for much the same reason our President is admired--for his oratory style and manner. The uninformed masses will always eat that up.

He was a politician not a scientist, his job was to talk and appeal to the masses not to cure AIDS.
Apparently he did a good politician job.
Same goes for Obama.

[Garry Walker]

But one would still hope to be looked upon favourably by those one knew or encountered, so it's best, as far as possible, to make efforts to ensure that's the case.

Well, Stalin is loved by many russians these days and he was the worst murderder in the last 300-400 years.

[BDunnell]

Well, Stalin is loved by many russians these days and he was the worst murderder in the last 300-400 years.

Again I say that not everybody has the same opinion on everything. Thank goodness.

[wedge]

Oh come on, chavez was hardly a guy with a clean sheet. On top of that he was a socialist, so I will repeat what I said - good riddance.

Considering he spoke his mind and insulted world figures I thought he earnt some of your respect...

*cue anti-socialist tirade*

[steveaki13]

Well I wonder what direction Venezuela will take now. Condolenses to his family and followers.

[keysersoze]

He was a politician not a scientist, his job was to talk and appeal to the masses not to cure AIDS.
Apparently he did a good politician job.
Same goes for Obama.

Nope, his job was to serve and protect his people, and help them improve their standard of living--not appeal to them and make speeches. Our president is excellent at the latter, and apparently has justified launching drone attacks on American citizens without giving them due process. He's quite a guy but, like I said, beloved by the uninformed masses.

You are close, however, in labeling them politicians, and as such, that places them on the evolutionary chain alongside rodents and snakes.

I'll give this to Chavez, though: there was nothing duplicitous about him.

[BDunnell]

Nope, his job was to serve and protect his people, and help them improve their standard of living--not appeal to them and make speeches.

In that, some have argued that Chavez was rather successful.

[steveaki13]

Whether you liked the guy, the real question is

Are the Venezuelan people and the country of Venezuela in a better place now than before he took office?

[BDunnell]

Whether you liked the guy, the real question is

Are the Venezuelan people and the country of Venezuela in a better place now than before he took office?

Whenever that question is posed of any country's leader, the answer is almost always: in some respects, yes, in others, no. I doubt Chavez is any different.

[ioan]

Nope, his job was to serve and protect his people, and help them improve their standard of living--not appeal to them and make speeches. Our president is excellent at the latter, and apparently has justified launching drone attacks on American citizens without giving them due process. He's quite a guy but, like I said, beloved by the uninformed masses.

You are close, however, in labeling them politicians, and as such, that places them on the evolutionary chain alongside rodents and snakes.

I'll give this to Chavez, though: there was nothing duplicitous about him.

You are overestimating the role of a politician.

[gloomyDAY]

Chavez was at times like an anti-hero. I found it funny how I could draw so many parallels with him and the Yankees that he vilified all too often. The Bush v. Chavez spats were so much fun to watch as well, and I still remember Bush's little hissy fits over Venezuela that made me smile.

What was sad about Chavez's rule was that the Venezuelan people suffered tremendously. The Venezuelan Constitution was torn to bits, private commerce was decimated, the homicide rate in Caracas is still one of the highest in the world, dissidents were crushed in the public eye, and poverty is still rampant along with a terrible quality of life.

Am I glad he died? No, but I'm sure glad that Chavez is not in power!

[Starter]

Well, Stalin is loved by many russians these days and he was the worst murderder in the last 300-400 years.
There are a number of contenders for that title.

[Starter]

I'd like to talk to you about our Lord, Jesus Christ. ;) :p
Only if you bring lots and lots of the wine. :p

[Starter]

But one would still hope to be looked upon favourably by those one knew or encountered, so it's best, as far as possible, to make efforts to ensure that's the case.
Why? It's all moot at that point.

[keysersoze]

You are overestimating the role of a politician.

His job title was president, not "politician." That is, he's a public servant.

[keysersoze]

Whether you liked the guy, the real question is

Are the Venezuelan people and the country of Venezuela in a better place now than before he took office?

See GloomyDAY's excellent post #31

[Roamy]

Hopefully the next leader can clean that place up and ensure people a decent life. The crime is horrific!! a country with much beauty has turned to sh!t
Oh yea I know I should not be throwing stones but we are not even close yet.

[A FONDO]

One of the very few praiseworthy politicians from the 21st century. I dont agree with some of his measures but, this is Latin America, people there are completely different.
The fact that millions of people blocked the whole country when he was kidnapped until his release is enough.

[TheFamousEccles]

I remember reading that when Hurricane Katrina wreaked havoc and the Iraq war was driving the oil price through the roof, the Governors of both Maine and New Hampshire appealed to a great number of oil companies for aid in the form of providing heating fuel for their poor. Seven of these (all US owned companies) refused, point blank. The eighth was PVDSA, who responded by providing heating oil.

Say what you like about Chavez, but in my opinion he was a champion of the poor - regardless of whether they lived under the yoke of "the Great Satan" or elsewhere.

That speaks to the measure of the man more than many things.

RIP

[steveaki13]

See GloomyDAY's excellent post #31

I did.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Say what you like about Chavez, but in my opinion he was a champion of the poor - regardless of whether they lived under the yoke of "the Great Satan" or elsewhere.

RIP

This may be the key to understanding. He was a folk hero first and and a politician second. His politician's record was spotty but he was very good as a people's leader. People need to feel empathy and see that somebody cares about them and that's what mattered most to them.

[Big Ben]

He was a politician not a scientist, his job was to talk and appeal to the masses not to cure AIDS.
Apparently he did a good politician job.
Same goes for Obama.

It's a shame that this is what a politician is supposed to be nowadays. I've learnt in highschool that a politician is a person who works in the management of the polis... but it's not what people are saying when they talk of a good politician

[Rudy Tamasz]

What was sad about Chavez's rule was that the Venezuelan people suffered tremendously. The Venezuelan Constitution was torn to bits, private commerce was decimated, the homicide rate in Caracas is still one of the highest in the world, dissidents were crushed in the public eye, and poverty is still rampant along with a terrible quality of life.

Venezuelans had suffered before Hugo and will after him. It's a an illusion to think that you can fix the evils of the world once you elect the right (or the left ;) )guy. Things like poverty and corruption don't go away overnight no matter how bright the government is.

[EuroTroll]

Venezuelans had suffered before Hugo and will after him. It's a an illusion to think that you can fix the evils of the world once you elect the right (or the left ;) )guy. Things like poverty and corruption don't go away overnight no matter how bright the government is.

It seems to be a widely held opinion, though, that crime and corruption became far more prevalent in Venezuela during his tenure.

[A FONDO]

It seems to be a widely held opinion, though, that crime and corruption became far more prevalent in Venezuela during his tenure.

Said the man who's been living in Venezuela from 20 years :laugh:

Why don't you suicide yourself? That will make the world a bit better. Or this forum at least.

[EuroTroll]

Said the man who's been living in Venezuela from 20 years :laugh:

Why don't you suicide yourself? That will make the world a bit better. Or this forum at least.

Oh no, have I've upset the gay-hater? :bigcry:

[BDunnell]

Said the man who's been living in Venezuela from 20 years :laugh:

Why don't you suicide yourself? That will make the world a bit better. Or this forum at least.

What on earth brought this absurd — ban-worthy? — rant on?

[BDunnell]

This may be the key to understanding. He was a folk hero first and and a politician second. His politician's record was spotty but he was very good as a people's leader. People need to feel empathy and see that somebody cares about them and that's what mattered most to them.

Exactly. I agree very much with your posts on this subject. It's all very well for some people (generally individuals whose political opinions I don't take at all seriously) to suggest that Chavez was somehow 'all bad', but this is far too simplistic. One has at all times to remember that he was democratically elected several times, in elections that I believe were generally considered to have been free and fair. Like him or not, one cannot dismiss him. Better to understand properly why someone like Chavez was able to achieve such success.

[Big Ben]

I wouldn't say he was all bad... just very bad at his job...

[Rudy Tamasz]

Exactly. I agree very much with your posts on this subject. It's all very well for some people (generally individuals whose political opinions I don't take at all seriously) to suggest that Chavez was somehow 'all bad', but this is far too simplistic. One has at all times to remember that he was democratically elected several times, in elections that I believe were generally considered to have been free and fair. Like him or not, one cannot dismiss him. Better to understand properly why someone like Chavez was able to achieve such success.

Thank you, BD. We do not agree on something too often, but I value those moments of agreement. :)

[donKey jote]

"deviant" Ahmadinejad behaving badly :laugh:
BBC News - Ahmadinejad under fire for consoling Chavez's mother (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21741074)

[ioan]

It's a shame that this is what a politician is supposed to be nowadays. I've learnt in highschool that a politician is a person who works in the management of the polis... but it's not what people are saying when they talk of a good politician

The chance to find quality work power, even politicians, is lower every day! ;)