America -- Love It or Loathe It?

[EuroTroll]

Having just received the greetings of Secretary of State John Kerry (http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2013/02/205063.htm), I began to wonder how you fellow forumers view "the greatest country on Earth". ;) Sorry, I meant to say "the great Satan". :D

Opinions, impressions, love letters and hate mail are all welcomed, so long as they don't merit moderatorial intervention. ;)

I've been to America once and loved the trip. I was in Colorado (near Denver) for a mining conference for a couple of days, went to see a Nuggets game, and drove around in the Rockies. I was surprised by a couple of things:
- How large everything is compared to Europe. I don't mean the people. :p I mean the roads, the buildings, the bridges, etc. Everything seemed to be 1.5 times larger than what I'm used to.
- How well maintained is the urban environment of Denver. Everything seemed sparkling clean, and generally pleasent to the eye.
- How hard Americans work. Now, this is certainly true. They start their working day earlier than we lazy Euros, and much of the time finish it later.

In general I was very impressed and it reaffirmed the positive image I have always had of the USA.

PS. That's right, you guessed it. This thread's main purpose is to lure Eki back to the forum. :p

[gadjo_dilo]

My knowledge of America resumes to
1.what I see in american movies
2.an excellent travel book called Greyhound America by Romulus Rusan
3.personal considerations on different american members of this forum.
Too poor to draw a final conclusion.
But I definitely prefer South America

[henners88]

Wait for it............

[Rudy Tamasz]

I think I'm long past the "love or loathe" attitude. At least I hope so. Passing one-dimensional judgments on something or somebody doesn't seem attractive to me. Therefore if America has something to offer that truly impresses or charms me I prefer to accept it with gratitude. If I see something I dislike, then I remind myself to watch out and distance myself from it. I don't normally go on to endlessly argue how wrong it is.

To give you specific examples, I am fond of music by Hank Williams Jr. and the Allman Brothers Band. I like Paul Newman movies and Pixar cartoons. I tap into American expertise in many areas of social sciences and liberal arts. At my workplace I use management techniques invented by Americans. I admire American work ethic.

There's plenty of things I'm less impressed with, like arrogance, messy politics, stupid celebrity culture, standardization and facelessness brought by TV, cynical self-centeredness etc. Nothing prevents me from doing without it, though.

[BDunnell]

I think I'm long past the "love or loathe" attitude. At least I hope so. Passing one-dimensional judgments on something or somebody doesn't seem attractive to me. Therefore if America has something to offer that truly impresses or charms me I prefer to accept it with gratitude. If I see something I dislike, then I remind myself to watch out and distance myself from it. I don't normally go on to endlessly argue how wrong it is.

To give you specific examples, I am fond of music by Hank Williams Jr. and the Allman Brothers Band. I like Paul Newman movies and Pixar cartoons. I tap into American expertise in many areas of social sciences and liberal arts. At my workplace I use management techniques invented by Americans. I admire American work ethic.

There's plenty of things I'm less impressed with, like arrogance, messy politics, stupid celebrity culture, standardization and facelessness brought by TV, cynical self-centeredness etc. Nothing prevents me from doing without it, though.

Pretty much my view, too. The notion of hating an entire country strikes me as ridiculous. One can dislike, sometimes very intensely, aspects of a country's policies, certain societal aspects or so on, but this should never be confused with hatred for the whole nation.

[Knock-on]

I like America and enjoy being there for short spells. More than a couple of weeks though and I do tire of it a bit.

Most Americans I have met are nice people but tend to be really set in their ways; religion in particular. Religion is like a Penis. It's OK to have one and be proud of it but try and ram it down my throat and we've got a fecking problem!

Basically, it's a good Country with good people but could do with being bit more objective.

[race aficionado]

I love New York

[TyPat107]

I am surprised to hear you refer to Denver as "clean."
I always notice the smog when driving in from Wyoming.

[pino]

Poll added :)

[pino]

I've only been there 3 times (Orlando and New York) and I must say that I have enjoyed every second. Most of the people I've met were nice and warm so defenitely a country I would visit more often if I could afford it. Also my daughter has lived in both Boston and Atlanta for a couple of years and I've only heard positive feedback from her...and she would love to move there (Boston) :)

[donKey jote]

I certainly enjoy visiting, but I do get tired of plastic cutlery after a couple of days, and the coffee is foul - or maybe it just tastes of the plastic cups :p

[race aficionado]

I certainly enjoy visiting, but I do get tired of plastic cutlery after a couple of days, and the coffee is foul - or maybe it just tastes of the plastic cups :p

The only time I get plastic cutlery is when I have food delivered to my home - and of course, I never use it.
You have to stop ordering in when you come to this country Donks. :p Any food joint in this city will provide you with non-plastic cutlery.

As for the coffee . . . that is a case of taste, and in my case, now that I live here, I know where to get my good ol' cup of Joe - and there are many options.

So I don't know where you have been to in this country, so next time come to NYC, I'll show you the place. You will love it.

:s mokin:

[donKey jote]

I don't order in, but I live in hotels. The plastic breakfast drives me nuts :p
The food joints are of course great :facelick:

I hope I'll be able to take you up some time on NYC though ! :up: :bandit:

[Dave B]

300 million people, give or take. Some are absolutely lovely, some are a-holes of the highest order. Most fall exactly where you'd expect people to fall if you drew a bell curve. Loving or loathing an entire country?

Where's the "Meh" option?

[steveaki13]

I have never been to the US, but from what I watch, read, hear about the US, it seems to be a country similar to the UK but also completely different.

I think there gunlaws are crazy and there attitude and lack of willingness to change them is insane, the willingness to still use the "Right to bare Arms" as a justifyable arguement when seeing scenes like the one at schools a few months back is frightening.

Not just the US, but there are alot of people around the globe that seem to love shooting things for sport and that I just dont get. If its for food fair enough thats part of the foodchain, but just for the love of killing things.

The people seem warm on the whole though. I have met a few Americans here and they always seem friendly.


I like America and enjoy being there for short spells. More than a couple of weeks though and I do tire of it a bit.

Most Americans I have met are nice people but tend to be really set in their ways; religion in particular. Religion is like a Penis. It's OK to have one and be proud of it but try and ram it down my throat and we've got a fecking problem!

Basically, it's a good Country with good people but could do with being bit more objective.


I have to agree about the religion thing. They are quite unreasonable when it comes to religion it seems.

[EuroTroll]

I see that some folks are uncomfortable with the question I posed... Let me rephrase it for you! ;)

"America -- When you take the sum of all American actions, do you feel they are a positive or a negative influence on the world?"

It's a better question but wouldn't have made for a snappy thread title. :)

[Duncan]

As a Brit who moved to the US (specifically, Oregon) over a decade ago, a few observations:

1. Obvious statement is obvious: America is a very, very big place, not just geographically but culturally. Talking about "America" as if it is a single homogeneous entity is pretty problematic... If two Brits, say, visit America, one going to Portland, Oregon and the other going to Marshall, Texas, they're going to be very confused when they compare notes afterwards. There are many examples I can think of of culture and scenery across the US that are just ridiculously different (I keep thinking of examples as I type... how about New York and Wailea? Or Las Vegas and Akron?)

2. Much of the US land mass is wilderness. The significance of this is really, really hard to explain to anybody who hasn't actually experienced what is out there. A lot of (particularly European) visitors to the US that I know exclusively go to places like New York, San Francisco and Dallas, and have no idea that they're only seeing a tiny fraction of the country. Make sure you go to Yellowstone (no, really, this is a trip you have to make at least once in your lifetime) and the Grand Canyon. The sheer scale expanse of deserts, mountains and forests is incredible...

By way of example: the state of Oregon has a land area slightly larger than that of all of the UK, but a population of not much over 3 million. Right away, that's a 20:1 population density ratio, but then consider that almost all of the population is in the western third of the state; the other 2/3rds of the area (East of the Cascade range) is extremely thinly populated high desert and forest.

3. One word: baseball. My eyes have been opened... cricket sucks. Sorry. :cheese:

[steveaki13]

3. One word: baseball. My eyes have been opened... cricket sucks. Sorry. :cheese:

Blasphemy. I think you need to come back here and be re aligned. :arrows:

[BDunnell]

300 million people, give or take. Some are absolutely lovely, some are a-holes of the highest order. Most fall exactly where you'd expect people to fall if you drew a bell curve. Loving or loathing an entire country?

Where's the "Meh" option?

I must say, if this is an example of the sort of thread the original poster believes is necessary to 'spice the forum up', I'm happier with how it was.

[BDunnell]

I see that some folks are uncomfortable with the question I posed... Let me rephrase it for you! ;)

"America -- When you take the sum of all American actions, do you feel they are a positive or a negative influence on the world?"

It's a better question but wouldn't have made for a snappy thread title. :)

Again, completely impossible to answer in a properly reasoned manner.

[EuroTroll]

I must say, if this is an example of the sort of thread the original poster believes is necessary to 'spice the forum up', I'm happier with how it was.

It is. I think it's a perfectly good topic for discussion, and this is confirmed by the good number of interesting posts we already have here. If you feel you can't participate, fine. :mark:

[keysersoze]

1. Obvious statement is obvious: America is a very, very big place, not just geographically but culturally. Talking about "America" as if it is a single homogeneous entity is pretty problematic... If two Brits, say, visit America, one going to Portland, Oregon and the other going to Marshall, Texas, they're going to be very confused when they compare notes afterwards. There are many examples I can think of of culture and scenery across the US that are just ridiculously different (I keep thinking of examples as I type... how about New York and Wailea? Or Las Vegas and Akron?)



So true.

[keysersoze]

Most Americans I have met are nice people but tend to be really set in their ways; religion in particular. Religion is like a Penis. It's OK to have one and be proud of it but try and ram it down my throat and we've got a fecking problem!

Religious dogma is hardly an American thing.

[Ash Smalley]

I like it, would love to live there good paid jobs i see!!

[Tazio]

300 million people, give or take. Some are absolutely lovely, some are a-holes of the highest order. Most fall exactly where you'd expect people to fall if you drew a bell curve. Loving or loathing an entire country?


]1. Obvious statement is obvious: America is a very, very big place, not just geographically but culturally. Talking about "America" as if it is a single homogeneous entity is pretty problematic... If two Brits, say, visit America, one going to Portland, Oregon and the other going to Marshall, Texas, they're going to be very confused when they compare notes afterwards. There are many examples I can think of of culture and scenery across the US that are just ridiculously different (I keep thinking of examples as I type... how about New York and Wailea? Or Las Vegas and Akron?)

2. Much of the US land mass is wilderness. The significance of this is really, really hard to explain to anybody who hasn't actually experienced what is out there. A lot of (particularly European) visitors to the US that I know exclusively go to places like New York, San Francisco and Dallas, and have no idea that they're only seeing a tiny fraction of the country. Make sure you go to Yellowstone (no, really, this is a trip you have to make at least once in your lifetime) and the Grand Canyon. The sheer scale expanse of deserts, mountains and forests is incredible...

Pretty much my view, too. The notion of hating an entire country strikes me as ridiculous. One can dislike, sometimes very intensely, aspects of a country's policies, certain societal aspects or so on, but this should never be confused with hatred for the whole nation.

Religious dogma is hardly an American thing.

These :up:
The grass ain't greener on the other genocide! :grenade: ;)

[Big Ben]

Never been to U.S. of A. but my impression from eastern Europe is generally very positive. The average American seems much friendlier than the average European.. that's my conclusion at least.

[Storm]

A nation about which I like many things but also dislike a few (mainly its geopolitics)

As a nation which I have seen quite a fair bit of (lived in NC for 9 months and I am a compulsive traveller) and also have been to California, Florida and most places from DC to Atlanta in the East. Amazing nature and amazing infrastructure to help you enjoy it. Long drives are a dream although the freeways get boring after a while...love the food, especially southern-style bbq and burgers! Again a great culture of sports which I admire although I do not enjoy any of the American sports now (watched a lot of NBA more than a decade ago, now I find it sleep inducing) except a bit of baseball.

Most people I met were friendly too..would not mind going back again one day.
I did miss out on NYC and hence meeting race afi and also veeten who also was fairly close by - considering how big the bloody country is.

[race aficionado]

Well I am still here in NYC and will meet and greet any forum member that doesn't scare the bejezus out of me. :)

[donKey jote]

BOO ! :eek: :vader: :andrea: :p

[race aficionado]

You'd have to try harder Donks.

Surprise me one of these days and I'll show you some real cutlery and will treat you to some good coffee and whatever nice things gets in the way.

[Zico]

I didn't vote. I neither love nor hate America as a country or its people. Every nation has breasts, just because they often reach high positions of power, that isn't necessarily a true reflection of the nation or its people... and that's not about Obama btw.

I don't understand the psyche of most of the ones I've ever met but I do find them fascinating, generally uber polite, so outgoing, so opinionated.. yet so misled?

[Rollo]

I didn't vote. I neither love nor hate America as a country or its people. Every nation has breasts....

Say what now?

BONG, Start again!

Monty Python - Hairdressers Expedition on Everest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F2SJS6B1wQ)

"Mount Everest. Forbidding, aloof, terrifying. The mountain with the biggest tits in the world."

[Zico]

Say what now?

BONG, Start again!

Monty Python - Hairdressers Expedition on Everest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F2SJS6B1wQ)

"Mount Everest. Forbidding, aloof, terrifying. The mountain with the biggest tits in the world."

Eh? Mount Everest isn't in America dude!

[EuroTroll]

Eh? Mount Everest isn't in America dude!

But apparently it has breasts, like America. :D

[TheFamousEccles]

Never been but would love to...

Two things I like about about the US of A - 1/Salma Hayek and 2/HBO. :up: :up:

[Knock-on]

Eh? Mount Everest isn't in America dude!

No, it's in Tit bet :D

[Roamy]

Well until I find a better place, I am here for the duration. I do like some of the southern Euro countries. I will probably venture out to southern Italy and Sicily. NZ, Chile and Colombia are on my radar.
But all and all it would be very tough to beat a country so diversified as the US. If we could just gut Washington DC and start again it could be even greater. It also depends on one's income and employment. If I had to live in the sh!thole of Detroit, Cleveland or Chicago then I could live many places throughout the world and love it.

[Alexamateo]

Never been but would love to...

Two things I like about about the US of A - 1/Salma Hayek and 2/HBO. :up: :up:

¡Oye güey, Salma es una Mexicana! ;)

[Alexamateo]

I love it and have three of its children so to speak. :)

I think Duncan has a very good perspective on things in his post. America is big, wide open and diverse. There are what, 21 countries in Western Europe and the land area doesn't even equal 1/2 of the United States. So why wouldn't we have a broad diversity, albeit under a unified "American" name. That's why we're both the melting pot and why we squabble so much.

[keysersoze]

A nation about which I like many things but also dislike a few (mainly its geopolitics)


Yep, ya gotta hand it to the U.S. of A. Being over $16 trillion in debt, and a sequester kicking in tomorrow (which will automatically cut $85 billion from the budget, costing domestic jobs, etc.), our Secretary of State just announced that we're writing a check for $60 million to the Syrian rebels (and they were expecting $100 mil).

[EuroTroll]

...our Secretary of State just announced that we're writing a check for $60 million to the Syrian rebels

Which is a whopping 0.0016% of the federal budget... ;) To put that into perspective, if your annual income was $100'000, the same percentage of it would be $1.60.

[TheFamousEccles]

Si, but she made her fortune in the US of A, and wouldn't have come to my lecherous attention had she not. But point well taken :D

One thing I don't like about the USA - the pending court-martial of Bradley Manning. This will be a terrible day for freedom in the land of the free.

[keysersoze]

Which is a whopping 0.0016% of the federal budget... ;) To put that into perspective, if your annual incomee was $100'000, the same percentage of it would be $1.60.

Tell that to the tens of thousands of American citizens who will lose all or part of their salary--I'm sure they will understand.

The miniscule percentage you calculated is not the point. In the US, our Social Security tax liability went back to the old levels. That is to say, up 2%. For me, that's $200+ a month. Do I feel that pinch on my lifestyle? Not a bit. In other words, I could write a $200 check to a foreign country to help them battle an autocratic government and it wouldn't put me in any financial bind. But again, that's not the point. I could spend that money in THIS economy, or give it to a needy domestic charity, and the USA would be better off.

Tell me because I really don't know--how big of a check have other countries written? And, in repayment for all of their humanitarian and political aid, how much has their reputation suffered workld-wide (and on this forum)?

[Knock-on]

One thing I don't like about the USA - the pending court-martial of Bradley Manning. This will be a terrible day for freedom in the land of the free.
Classic case of doing the wrong thing (by Law) for the right reasons.

It's very difficult to get real justice in this case because the Law must be applied blindly and Bradley will cop 15-20 yers.

Governments encourage whistle blowing against corrupt corporates but when it's a bit closer to home, they don't like the taste of that sort of medicine.

[Gregor-y]

Maybe if we paid a tax relative to the services we have the country wouldn't be in as much trouble. Reagan introduced a borrow and spend mentality thirty-odd years ago exacerbated by a constant reduction in taxes starting in the 90s that no one has really gotten around to addressing other than pointing fingers at someone of a different race or class, calling them entitled and demanding they suffer more.

Bush's foray Iraq didn't exactly pay for itself like his administration planned, either.

[airshifter]

I live here and love the US of A.

There is so much diversity it's hard not to love it. As with all countries we are far from perfect but most countries also don't have the struggles involved with such a big country so it's hard for them to understand. It's more like comparing the EU as a whole, good and bad included.

[keysersoze]

Maybe if we paid a tax relative to the services we have the country wouldn't be in as much trouble. Reagan introduced a borrow and spend mentality thirty-odd years ago exacerbated by a constant reduction in taxes starting in the 90s that no one has really gotten around to addressing other than pointing fingers at someone of a different race or class, calling them entitled and demanding they suffer more.

Bush's foray Iraq didn't exactly pay for itself like his administration planned, either.

The federal government's services should be limited in my view. They aren't for "providing services." The lion's share of their operating budget is to protect its citizens and to provide infrastructure (roads & bridges). And as much as I appreciate the big business in this country, they have a history making things tough for the worker, so there needs to be laws guiding their behavior--the banking and investment industry included. I'm all for a "safety net" for the poor, the elderly and disabled, yet the system is abused and those "loopholes" need to be addressed as much as some of the ridiculous tax loopholes for the wealthy.

Blaming certain presidents as the cornerstone of your argument is a non-starter. The charged rhetoric does you no good--"demand they suffer" indeed!

[Rudy Tamasz]

The federal government's services should be limited in my view. They aren't for "providing services." The lion's share of their operating budget is to protect its citizens and to provide infrastructure (roads & bridges). And as much as I appreciate the big business in this country, they have a history making things tough for the worker, so there needs to be laws guiding their behavior--the banking and investment industry included. I'm all for a "safety net" for the poor, the elderly and disabled, yet the system is abused and those "loopholes" need to be addressed as much as some of the ridiculous tax loopholes for the wealthy.

I hear you, keysersoze, and I like your vision of the society. In theory, that is, because I doubt it is feasible in reality. The problem is the economic model that this world uses today. It is entirely based on the notion of growth. If you don't have growth, you don't have anything. The government spending is a huge part of the growth. If you cut it, most likely you will have a recession. This is why governments all over the world either borrow a lot, or inflate their currencies, or both. It's the same in the democratic U.S. and my small authoritarian country: and insane national debt, big gov't and lots of people on welfare. At some point it's gonna stop eventually, but it will be a massive crash of the world economy. It's a bubble and it has to burst. The question is when.

[steveaki13]

What is every day life like in the US. I mean having not visited the only things I see involve a camera. i.e people not being natural. I have met Americans here, but just wondered what every day life is like. Is everyone friendly? Do people chat and mix on the streets?

[Spafranco]

Wake at 5AM, kicked out of bed at 5:15AM. Go to office after shower and a Starbucks on the way. Watch women put on their make-up as they drive and some who can text and drive (they think).
Then for 4hours I work and see a different person every 15 or so minutes. Grab some lunch (Subway) back to work and leave at four. Bring many files home as well as pick up the kids :)
Listen to them carry on but it's fun to listen.
Read some non-fiction but have found a real good British author whose main character is named Reacher. I have read 15 of his books and for the life of me I can't recall his name and refuse to Google.
After dinner with all and sundry it's a shower and bed. May get lucky and then again may not.
It's a good place. Don't let the pols and the few lunatics we see surface now and again detract from this wonderful country and it's wonderful people.

[BDunnell]

Classic case of doing the wrong thing (by Law) for the right reasons.

It's very difficult to get real justice in this case because the Law must be applied blindly and Bradley will cop 15-20 yers.

Governments encourage whistle blowing against corrupt corporates but when it's a bit closer to home, they don't like the taste of that sort of medicine.

On this, while Assange and WikiLeaks have become laughable, I very much agree with you. But 'for the right reasons'?

[BDunnell]

What is every day life like in the US. I mean having not visited the only things I see involve a camera. i.e people not being natural. I have met Americans here, but just wondered what every day life is like. Is everyone friendly? Do people chat and mix on the streets?

I should imagine most are human beings just like one encounters everywhere one goes.

[airshifter]

What is every day life like in the US. I mean having not visited the only things I see involve a camera. i.e people not being natural. I have met Americans here, but just wondered what every day life is like. Is everyone friendly? Do people chat and mix on the streets?

If you traveled through a great deal of the EU nations and formed an overall opinion, that is probably about what the whole of the US is like. Some great places and great people. Some places you would rather not return to, and some not so great people. Some areas where you wish you had a better GPS because you know you are in an area you don't really want to be.

With such vast area the US also has vast differences in local cultures and cultural mixes.