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View Full Version : Indycar is dead. Long live the Indy 500.



Rex Monaco
21st February 2013, 17:29
"Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit."

I was searching for a racing quote today and stumbled across this article by Gordon Kirby (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no363.html). It filled in some of the historical context that I was missing, and it got me to thinking (dangerous).

What was new to me in this article, was the loss of AMERICAS long and storied cottage industry brought on by the (misguided) rules to keep costs down. This loss is ironic for a series that was drenched in jingoistic rhetoric at it's very inception.

The people in this industry were the people who not only built the sport, but they carried it for decades when there was no money. This casualty of the civil war is probably our greatest loss, not just to our sport, but to our nation. We have essentially outsourced American Open Wheeled racing and we lost American jobs in the process. We also lost the people who in the past helped us weather the storms during lean years.

Every time we speak of how to fix the series, well meaning people start with the question "where is the money?" But that is the wrong question to begin our conversation. Obama is giving away money to any green company that has a half baked plan like he prints it himself. So there is money.

But there is no money in Indycar, because there is no value. So the question we need to start asking is, where is the value to potential sponsors? Or more to the point, how do we bring value back to the sport?

First, take Indycar off of life support and let it die. This sport was not built around any series. The series sprang up around the Indy 500. Make it about the Indy 500 again. It started as an endurance race to prove the durability of emerging technologies. Bring it back to it's roots. Once it's a healthy race attracting the brightest engineers in the world, a series will arise around it.

We are in an unprecedented era of a technological advancement while the world searches for a replacement for the internal combustion engine and/or petroleum based fuels. As an automotive enthusiast (and a libertarian), I'd much rather have the best engineers in the world invent, test and prove their emerging technologies for the public to see on Memorial Day than have some well intentioned but misguided government agency force a less than perfect system on us. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not an engineer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So I can only speak in generalities (sorry Gary) when addressing the rules that would be needed to make the Indy 500 relevant again. But in my mind, first and foremost on my list would be an end to a spec chassis. Burn it, bury it and never look back.

In it's place I would mandate a spec tub. Safety cannot be a second thought or be sacrificed for an advantage on the track. I'd go as far as to supply the tub to ensure teams do not cheat. Then I'd stipulate a min/max weight, wheel base, fr/rr track width and the overall length. Big wings, small wings, no wings. Do whatever you want with the body in search for speed and fuel economy.

My ultimate engine formula would take much more technological knowledge than I possess. I'd hand it over to the SAE so they could develop an equivalency formula for all the divergent power train technologies out there. As a transition to an open engine formula, I'd create a spec block and allow for independent development upon it. I could even live with the spec block as an engine formula. NASCAR doesn't run Ford, Chevy and Toyota engines. They run Hendricks, Yates and Roush engines. It's time that Indycar go back to those roots as well.

Unfortunately, the damage might already be too severe to even save the Indy 500. The patient is in intensive care, but all it's getting right now is aspirin. It took 20 years of mismanagement to destroy it. So to think that it can be fixed in a fraction of that time is unrealistic. Nothing will turn it around overnight. But doing nothing will only ensure it's death.

beachbum
21st February 2013, 22:26
The power of positive thinking.

Rolling back the clock isn't the answer.

I guess we should all just throw in the towel and take up chess.

SoCalPVguy
21st February 2013, 22:51
In today's "tech speak" Indycar needs to go the way of "open protocol" compatible specs. Give an overall minimum weight (w/ driver), maximum wheelbase length, max. wheel track width, max. displacement for stock blocks, max. displacement w/ max boost for turbos; allow hybrid racing (w/ max. engine displacement). and that is IT. One page rulebook. No all electric-car limits

Let ingenuity and the 'marketplace' provide the cars.

Mark
22nd February 2013, 09:10
You shouldn't have spec anything. Mandate a set of rules to build you cars by and let whoever wants to build them do so. Mandate engine rules and let whoever wants to build them do so. Just like IndyCar of old.

But it's certainly right there's little interest now. But I do think there's room for another single seater series alongside F1.

MAX_THRUST
22nd February 2013, 10:45
The US never really got F1, but CART was popular and was growing until the greedy got hungry for more, and killed it off slowly. I remember sitting in a bar in Florida watching the 96 Elk Hart Lake race with a bunch of American's. There was tennis on and I knew the race was on so asked to turn over the channel....so they did, and we all watched it getting slowly drunk. Interestingly for me when Al Unser blew up on the last lap, heading for victory, how happy the American's were...So I don' think the series needs to be American everything for it to work? NASCAR has Toyota now and it hasn't affected the popularity of the drivers, driving the Toyota's.

MAX_THRUST
22nd February 2013, 10:53
I can see where Rex is coming from though, but I don't think its all doom and gloom though, been saying this for over ten years now on here....Stability it what is needed right now hence the car we have. If I had it my way we would still be racing Reynards and Lola's, with Ford Cosworth engines. The new cars are too small looking compared with the bigger older cars. Aj Almendinger coming back to the series will help this year a little, but you cannot expect one driver to save the series, as they thought Danica would.

They need to stick with race tracks even if there is poor attendance. Build some history at them, you can't keep changing tracks every year. The series should promote its own races rather than leave it to companies who fold after a year and aren't as committed to making things work. Throwing a **** load of money at it won't fix it, but give away loads of tickets, in compettions, business partners, for the struggling races. Get the people in and make it more of an event than it currently is. Promote the hell out of the series, sort out the web site, and look for support from NASCAR. Get some help, sleep with em if you have too, anything to raise Indy Cars profile.

Blancvino
22nd February 2013, 17:17
I can see where Rex is coming from though, but I don't think its all doom and gloom though, been saying this for over ten years now on here....Stability it what is needed right now hence the car we have. If I had it my way we would still be racing Reynards and Lola's, with Ford Cosworth engines. The new cars are too small looking compared with the bigger older cars. Aj Almendinger coming back to the series will help this year a little, but you cannot expect one driver to save the series, as they thought Danica would.

They need to stick with race tracks even if there is poor attendance. Build some history at them, you can't keep changing tracks every year. The series should promote its own races rather than leave it to companies who fold after a year and aren't as committed to making things work. Throwing a **** load of money at it won't fix it, but give away loads of tickets, in compettions, business partners, for the struggling races. Get the people in and make it more of an event than it currently is. Promote the hell out of the series, sort out the web site, and look for support from NASCAR. Get some help, sleep with em if you have too, anything to raise Indy Cars profile.

Sorry, the series is further gone than burnt toast!

Bubble ... POP!

Mark
22nd February 2013, 19:49
So. Try to turn it around or take off and nuke the site from orbit?

call_me_andrew
23rd February 2013, 02:49
How profitable was Can-Am?

EagleEye
23rd February 2013, 21:03
Sorry, the series is further gone than burnt toast!

Bubble ... POP!

Hmmmmm, I beg to differ.

A confirmed 25 entries this year and 19 race events on schedule, all on TV. Maybe you have the most awesome burnt toast in the land, but this is far from over.

We can discuss further after the current TV deal is done, as that story has yet to be told.

There are a lot of good stories going into 2013:

-Changes at Andretti Autosport

-Sato and Foyt

-SDS and TK

-Schmidt's new two car assault

-Penske WP trying not to be a brides maid again

-Penske and AJ?

-Dragon racing steps up

But you can't please everyone....we'll see the true fans at St. Pete!

Blancvino
25th February 2013, 15:47
Hmmmmm, I beg to differ.

A confirmed 25 entries this year and 19 race events on schedule, all on TV. Maybe you have the most awesome burnt toast in the land, but this is far from over.

We can discuss further after the current TV deal is done, as that story has yet to be told.

There are a lot of good stories going into 2013:

-Changes at Andretti Autosport

-Sato and Foyt

-SDS and TK

-Schmidt's new two car assault

-Penske WP trying not to be a brides maid again

-Penske and AJ?

-Dragon racing steps up

But you can't please everyone....we'll see the true fans at St. Pete!

True fans? They got singed in 1995 and were smoked out of existence over the next 10 years of the split. What's left is a marginalized Indy 500 and the rest of the races are a poor attempt at window dressing.

Regardless, I truly hope your optimistic view comes to pass. For the sake of Indianapolis (my home town), I hope the IMS is prosperous.

I though, tossed the burnt toast in the back yard for the birds to eat.

Rollo
26th February 2013, 00:09
We are in an unprecedented era of a technological advancement while the world searches for a replacement for the internal combustion engine and/or petroleum based fuels. As an automotive enthusiast (and a libertarian), I'd much rather have the best engineers in the world invent, test and prove their emerging technologies for the public to see on Memorial Day than have some well intentioned but misguided government agency force a less than perfect system on us. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Andy Granatelli played with turbines in the late 60s. How would you feel about a Jet-Electric car, running on canola oil or something? Jaguar's CX-75 project seems to have gone nowhere, but I still think that this could be one of the ways of the future, it just needs the fire of competition to hone it.

EagleEye
26th February 2013, 17:56
True fans? They got singed in 1995 and were smoked out of existence over the next 10 years of the split. What's left is a marginalized Indy 500 and the rest of the races are a poor attempt at window dressing.

Regardless, I truly hope your optimistic view comes to pass. For the sake of Indianapolis (my home town), I hope the IMS is prosperous.

I though, tossed the burnt toast in the back yard for the birds to eat.

No doubt the split was a horrible thing, that ruined a very good thing and led us to where we are now. No doubt, the dumbest thing in hisotry of the sport, was creating the IRL and the split that followed. And I agree fans were smoked out. There were at least five groups; one followed CART, one followed the IRL, one watched both, one watched just the 500, and one group (the biggest) went away.


I miss having new chassis each and every season, and four engines, chassis to choose from. No doubt, sad, and still makes my blood boil.

But, we do have every race on TV, something they did not even have in the early days of CART. That will continue until the end of the current agreement (2017/2018?). The crowd at the 500, has grown the last three years....heck, we even have a bigger crowd than the BY400 now (which was not always the case, despite what they say at 16th and G). The crowds were good at most races, not named Fontana, Texas or Edmonton.

And, the racing was fantastic last year! I'm sorry but eight different winners, and the potential to have more, was much better than the "window dressing" you describe.

If only we can get better TV ratings (which would lead to more money for the series and teams) we could continue to build on what we once had. They say for every year an major league is on strike, it takes 3 years for the numbers to recover. The fact we were in a split for ten years, means we still have a LOT of work to do.


The burnt toast will bear fruit once the series is no longer on TV.....and we are not at that point and time now.