Spicing Up the Forum

[EuroTroll]

I'd like to discuss with you, lassies and lads, our forum's policy regarding moderating. Now, I know Mark makes the policy, but perhaps he wouldn't mind some constructive feedback?

As Knock-on said on another thread, the forum nowadays is much more sanitized than it used to be. It is also a lot quieter... I think he's on to something, and there's a connection there.

The forum, as I see it, is all about having fun. And, let's face it, flame wars are fun. :D Calling your fellow forumer some witty name is fun! :) Now, you might disagree with that, but I think you can't disagree with the assertion that what they bring to the forum is more turn-over, more posts. And what this forum desperately needs IMO is more posts. It really has got terribly quiet...

So what I'd like to ask is your opinion on the following questions:
- Must this be a "family forum"?
- Would you like the moderator's to just let things go a bit more?
- Would you mind it if the forum had more really-really heated discussions about things?

Of course, your other thoughts on how to spice up the forum are most welcomed too! I'm sure what we all want is for this forum to prosper, and be loads of fun. :bandit:

[Mintexmemory]

Unfortunately the anonymity of forum postings allows certain individuals to lose all sense of proportion. Heated debate is one thing, adolescent name calling (which the majority of 'lively exchanges' seem to descend to) is another. My personal rule is never call someone something you wouldn't say if they were standing in front of you. Hijacking of threads by dweebs seeking some sort of revenge for a previous 'name calling' also lowers ther tone of the place. Sorry ET you want more excitement find a place more to your liking. I'm not so bothered about this being a family forum but I do like it to be 'adult' in the true sense of the word

[EuroTroll]

I hear you Mintexmemory, but! And it's a "but" the size of my butt. :p

I joined the forum back in 2004, and the place was really buzzing then! I think we probably have a quarter of the activity now, compared to what it was back then.

I do think it's to do with moderating policy. I'm not saying the forum should become unmoderated! That would make a total mess. What I'm calling for is a loosening of reins just a little bit...

[Mark]

The moderating is roughly the same as it was then, in fact it's probably considerably less moderated.

The forum is quieter, just because in 2004 there wasn't the likes of facebook and myriad other things on the internet, plus we had lots of partner sites sending us traffic whereas we have almost none now. Forums in general are that bit less popular than they used to be.

[henners88]

I think we lost a fair few posters when the forum had the fallout with moronsport.com too. I've directed people from other forums to here in the past, but we have lost some familiar faces over the years. Some people haven't agreed with the politics F1 has used in recent times and the TV decision has lost us a couple of posters to my knowledge. I think the best way to attract new people to the forum is through twitter to be honest. Plug the site Mark and contact F1 journo's who often re-tweet on your behalf. It seems to be an effective way to spread the word in my experience and its of course free. I don't think the moderation needs to be relaxed any more than it is because some people take the Michael with the restrictions we have right now. If you let people say what you want you end up with a troll fest like autosports bulletin board and no decent discussion ever gets had. That was one of the reasons I came here and no longer post over there.

More posters is key, but keep the rules as they are.. :)

[Wasted Talent]

Well I don't want to come here to see bitching and name calling - leave it as it is.....

WT

[Starter]

I'd like to discuss with you, lassies and lads, our forum's policy regarding moderating. Now, I know Mark makes the policy, but perhaps he wouldn't mind some constructive feedback?

As Knock-on said on another thread, the forum nowadays is much more sanitized than it used to be. It is also a lot quieter... I think he's on to something, and there's a connection there.

The forum, as I see it, is all about having fun. And, let's face it, flame wars are fun. :D Calling your fellow forumer some witty name is fun! :) Now, you might disagree with that, but I think you can't disagree with the assertion that what they bring to the forum is more turn-over, more posts. And what this forum desperately needs IMO is more posts. It really has got terribly quiet...
I'll speak as an ex moderator here. There is a lot to be said for keeping a reasonable level of decorum in the forums. If it's not something you would say face to face down at the local pub, perhaps you should re think your comments. You can have lots of dissenting opinions without getting personally insulting.


So what I'd like to ask is your opinion on the following questions:
- Must this be a "family forum"?
Well, define "family forum". It's good to remember that this is an open forum and children can, and do, read posts here. If it's not something you would want YOUR child to read, then maybe it's not appropriate to post it here.


- Would you like the moderator's to just let things go a bit more?
This is already a pretty open forum compared to some. The mods here, for instance, don't espouse any particular opinion as happens some places - where you might get banned if you disagree with them.


- Would you mind it if the forum had more really-really heated discussions about things?
Really heated is fine. It's when posters cross over into obscenities and insults that presents a problem. Most members have no idea of some of the messes that the mods have to clean up. They on the ball and the worst examples are gone before most members have a chance to see them. You would be absolutely amazed at some of the garbage that's been posted over the years.


Of course, your other thoughts on how to spice up the forum are most welcomed too! I'm sure what we all want is for this forum to prosper, and be loads of fun. :bandit:
This forum has always been fun and still is. One of the comments posted above about times and forum activity changing are true though. IMO that is responsible for some of the decreased activity. Auto racing is also not as popular as it has been, at least on this side of the Atlantic, and that has had an effect too.

[airshifter]

The problem with the initial thought is that the moderators can't always "see" where it is friendly banter that nobody takes offense to and when it becomes something that people do get offended by. Harmless joking between friends or acquaintances can easily be taken out of context when in written words.

Though at times less moderating does knock down some walls, it usually ends up in chaos and flame wars. Just my opinion.

[BDunnell]

I'll speak as an ex moderator here. There is a lot to be said for keeping a reasonable level of decorum in the forums. If it's not something you would say face to face down at the local pub, perhaps you should re think your comments.

This comparison I've always found rather pointless, I must say, largely because you tend to go to the pub with people you know you like. Having discussions on forums, Twitter, etc isn't the same at all. You come into contact with the sort of individuals you'd never normally associate with, let alone be friendly or socialise with.

[BDunnell]

I'd like to discuss with you, lassies and lads, our forum's policy regarding moderating. Now, I know Mark makes the policy, but perhaps he wouldn't mind some constructive feedback?

As Knock-on said on another thread, the forum nowadays is much more sanitized than it used to be. It is also a lot quieter... I think he's on to something, and there's a connection there.

The forum, as I see it, is all about having fun. And, let's face it, flame wars are fun. :D Calling your fellow forumer some witty name is fun! :) Now, you might disagree with that, but I think you can't disagree with the assertion that what they bring to the forum is more turn-over, more posts. And what this forum desperately needs IMO is more posts. It really has got terribly quiet...

So what I'd like to ask is your opinion on the following questions:
- Must this be a "family forum"?
- Would you like the moderator's to just let things go a bit more?
- Would you mind it if the forum had more really-really heated discussions about things?

Of course, your other thoughts on how to spice up the forum are most welcomed too! I'm sure what we all want is for this forum to prosper, and be loads of fun. :bandit:

I don't think there needs to be any change at all, even though I have over time questioned the basic competency of some (far from all) of the moderating. In fact, I'd much rather all members were as friendly, reasonable and interesting as you have always been yourself.

[EuroTroll]

Thanks very much, Ben! :)

I must say that reading this thread has altered my original opinion quite a bit. Youse guys make some very good points. ;) I guess I just miss the old times when we always had a couple of really intense political threads in Chit-Chat, and a couple a feuds raging in F1. :D It's true that I've never been one to offend myself, but I did find these very amusing. :)

[Knock-on]

When I started reading this thread, I 'got' what you were on about. I didn't think you were asking for wholesale changes and a virtual cull on Moderating but just to possibly not be so strict. I have seen threads closed on occassions at the drop of a hat and some moderating decisions seem to be based on the Mods personal views rather than whether there was a reasoned need to shut a thread or remove posts.

Now, I support the Mods on here, always have done, always will do, and I know they're unpaid, aren't Supermen and on occassion can make a mistake. No problem with that. However, I do think the Modding has become slightly less tolerant lately regarding letting people having a bit of a barney.

People being rude and insulting is one thing but saying someone is being a prat or that a post is the rambleings of an idiot is hardly descending the forum into anarchy, is it? I think I even got an infraction for calling someone a Poodle :laugh: I say a lot worse down the pub :D

It's a difficult line to Moderate but a bit of banter or light hearted 'insults' adds to the forum rather than detracts from it. No need to change the rules but not necessarily enforce them that much unless you need to.

[Mark]

When you close a thread you have one set of people thinking it was outrageous. Another set thinking it should have been closed ages ago.

[Knock-on]

I never said it was an easy job Mark. Just my opinion and honest feedback.

[henners88]

I think I even got an infraction for calling someone a Poodle :laugh:
Really?

[Mintexmemory]

Really?

I think I can top that, I got complained about for referring to someone, who was being exceedingly rude about a certain WRC driver, as a 'dweller in darkness' - as he hadn't yet seen the light.
His Complaint: "Insult - I do not dwell in darkness"
Mark's reply: "Prove it"................. which was nice :)

I think a large amount of misunderstanding occurs from debates held in a language, English, that for some (or all) of the participants may not be their 1st language (sorry Yanks ;) ) I would always try to do a 'Kissinger' in such cases. Also, as in the recent Natalie Coulthard thread, someone's insensitivity can provoke a very emotional response. I don't want to poke my nose in unnecessarily or act like some old fart, so I hope having become a mod by default (I only wanted to run the WRC Pickem) I can just point out from time to time when a chill pill is required (rather than a full frontal lobotomy!).

[henners88]

I think a large amount of misunderstanding occurs from debates held in a language, English, that for some (or all) of the participants may not be their 1st language (sorry Yanks ;) ) I would always try to do a 'Kissinger' in such cases.

I think in some instances all it takes is a PM to ask an individual to chill out a little. Giving someone an infraction for calling somebody a 'poodle' is a little extreme as the word itself isn't actually an insult but of course may cause annoyance in a thread. I think for most English speakers if you were called a poodle you'd probably laugh lol. Having been given an infraction myself for something which really didn't deserve it in the past, I have to say the process usually winds the person up even more rather than cooling a situation. If Knock really did get an infraction for his use of that word then I find that disappointing. I've got no problem with how the forum is run on the whole as I displayed in my first post here, but I hope we don't have mods abusing the power they have. I don't think anything needs to change apart from getting more new faces into the discussion. :)



Also, as in the recent Natalie Coulthard thread, someone's insensitivity can provoke a very emotional response. I don't want to poke my nose in unnecessarily or act like some old fart, so I hope having become a mod by default (I only wanted to run the WRC Pickem) I can just point out from time to time when a chill pill is required (rather than a full frontal lobotomy!).
The instance you mention there is a strange one. The comment that provoked such an emotional response was from a poster many of us have known for years now, albeit under several different user-names. The choice of female name was an interesting approach this time around, but I wish he would just stick to it to save embarrassment.

[pino]

I think I even got an infraction for calling someone a Poodle :laugh: I say a lot worse down the pub :D



knockie, problem is that personal comments usually brings threads off-topic or even turns them into a personal fight between two or more members, that's why I don't allow them especially on F1 forum. Having said that you know me very well, everyone gets at least a couple of warnings before I give an infraction...let alone a ban

[Mark]

Spammers and advertisers however are dispatched with immediate effect!

[henners88]

If warnings go out then fair enough :)

[pino]

If warnings go out then fair enough :)

80% of my posts on F1 forum are warnings and requests to members...unfortunately :(

[henners88]

I haven't seen one for a while Pino so it must be getting better, or its far too quiet to get anyone heated up. :(

[pino]

I haven't seen one for a while Pino so it must be getting better, or its far too quiet to get anyone heated up. :(

You're right, but I've been very busy with my personal life and as I am not confortable using my iPhone for moderation issues I tend to close an eye (considering the off-season) unless there's a big problem. I will be on my PC more often when season start, be sure about that ;)

[Knock-on]

knockie, problem is that personal comments usually brings threads off-topic or even turns them into a personal fight between two or more members, that's why I don't allow them especially on F1 forum. Having said that you know me very well, everyone gets at least a couple of warnings before I give an infraction...let alone a ban

Oh, you know me mate. It doesn't really worry me that much and rather amuses me ;)

[Rudy Tamasz]

Thanks very much, Ben! :)

I must say that reading this thread has altered my original opinion quite a bit. Youse guys make some very good points. ;) I guess I just miss the old times when we always had a couple of really intense political threads in Chit-Chat, and a couple a feuds raging in F1. :D It's true that I've never been one to offend myself, but I did find these very amusing. :)

Just reach our to Eki and bring him back. That'll bring the heat back on. Eki must be right up there across the gulf from you. Not really far.

[EuroTroll]

Just reach our to Eki and bring him back. That'll bring the heat back on. Eki must be right up there across the gulf from you. Not really far.

You're right! We do need Eki -- the ultimate troll. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :) If only I knew how to get in touch with him. :erm:

[Starter]

If warnings go out then fair enough :)
I can't speak for all of the Mods, but when I was doing it, I would send a warning PM (sometimes more than one, depending) to the member before any other action was taken. I would also send an explanatory PM to the member if I made any changes to a post or deleted it.

The other language issue, even in English, is slang usage, where an innocuous term one place is a nasty insult another. (I might have been the one who objected for the "poodle" reference - don't remember.) Sometimes you just have to go with "if it reads like an insult, than it must be an insult". One of the great things about this board, and sometimes a source of consternation for the Mods, is that it's very multicultural and for many members English is a second language.

[donKey jote]

Spammers and advertisers however are dispatched with immediate effect!

Really? :andrea: :p

[steveaki13]

Definately need a few more posters.

I enjoy the banter. I think as long as people use a smilies to indicate banter as opposed to pure abuse, then its all good.

There are many old posters I miss. Although one is now back. ;)

[airshifter]

I haven't seen one for a while Pino so it must be getting better, or its far too quiet to get anyone heated up. :(

Maybe that is why all your posts disappeared? It was quicker and easier than sending out a warning! :laugh:

I've got an infraction without a warning in the past, but the Moderator shall remain nameless. I sucked it up and moved on, even though I thought it wasn't deserved for the comment I posted. But please people, but yourself in the "shoes" of the Moderators, as it's not a simple task. Been there, done that, and it's not nearly as easy to keep track of as some people might think. Sometimes they have to remain proactive and dish out some warning and/or infractions to keep the train on track before the accident happens.


As a side note, if it is being considered by Mark.....

I go to a couple of forums that have a single section each that they consider the "War Room" if you will. They reduce the amount of moderation in those particular sections, but have a very visible warning that if you can't deal with more harsh discussions and arguments stay out. They still enforce basics and have limits on the stupidity they tolerate, such as language and taking the personal stuff too far. They also require that only registered logged in members can view the pages, so visitors and kids can be kept out of those areas.

Just a thought.

[henners88]

Maybe that is why all your posts disappeared? It was quicker and easier than sending out a warning! :laugh:
:) My posts were accidently deleted by a mod when I reported a spammer. Instead of the spammer being deleted I was lol. Mark has a back up of all my posts but is trying to find a way of implementing them back into the forum. It doesn't sound like an easy task considering there was nearly 8,000 to put back.

I've certainly learnt a valuable lesson. I will never report another post on this forum again :p

[Knock-on]

Henners old fruit, I wouldn't worry about losing your posts if you know what I mean :p

( whoops, forgot the :) )

[Sprocket]

As a noob here, I think the forum is just great as it is.

I'm a refugee from the lack of television coverage of the WRC. Though I've some involvement in motorsport through my son, I never really had much reason to join a motorsport forum before. Having fun here though following the WRC rounds on threads, Pickems and general discussion. It all seems pitched about right to me.

It is quiet though, I had a day off sick and whilst watching lots of videos on Rally Sweden, there I was posting away and felt like I had taken over the entire WRC forum lol.

It is true though forums are not what they were, I've run one for years that is not motorsport related and traffic these days is just a trickle compared to 10 years ago.

[Ash Smalley]

The forum looks great..

[Mark]

The forum looks great..

Really?

[donKey jote]

Mark has a back up of all my posts but is trying to find a way of implementing them back into the forum. It doesn't sound like an easy task considering there was nearly 8,000 to put back.

He should get pino to put them back one by one :andrea:
... except you might get the spammer's posts instead :p

[donKey jote]

I go to a couple of forums that have a single section each that they consider the "War Room" if you will.

That could be an interesting experiment... anything borderline gets moved to the "Sin Bin" or "Donkey Room" or "Troll's Playground" or whatever.

The instance you mention there is a strange one. The comment that provoked such an emotional response was from a poster many of us have known for years now, albeit under several different user-names. The choice of female name was an interesting approach this time around, but I wish he would just stick to it to save embarrassment.

Except that wasn't me.

This forum is dying because there is no room for those who don't agree with a clique.

[Tazio]

"il real tamburello" :eek: Prove it :dozey: ;)

[henners88]

Except that wasn't me.

This forum is dying because there is no room for those who don't agree with a clique.
Wey hey hey!!! Welcome back :)

You've had a few identities here mate and every single one of them has been great fun. At least you are back with your proper name, the best one by far ;)

I don't agree there is a clique here as such. There's always room for different opinions as long as the intent isn't to get personal and negative. I don't think anybody comes here to read nasty comments and we were all guilty of that in the past. It all got rather silly last time around.

Why not start a fresh Tamb? I'd buy you a beer if I could :beer:

[airshifter]

Why not start a fresh Tamb? I'd buy you a beer if I could :beer:

If you don't buy us all a beer you are starting a clique. Since shipping beer to the US wouldn't be easy, just send us money. For that matter, just send all the money to me and I'll make sure all the US forum members get their beer. Really, you can trust me on this one. :)

[Natalie.S]

If you let people say what you want you end up with a troll fest like autosports bulletin board and no decent discussion ever gets had. That was one of the reasons I came here and no longer post over there.

Lol word on the Autosport BB is you were removed though :D
Buttoneer says hi mate :wave:

[Natalie.S]

Except that wasn't me.

This forum is dying because there is no room for those who don't agree with a clique.
So you are this notorious "Tamb" person that posters have called me here from day 1

Have to agree there's not much room for those with a different opinion than the resident posters here
I've been called names and "Tamb" here from the start and not a moderator has intervened
No wonder this place has been dead as a dodo

You don't need to spice up the forum but just need to keep the resident numpties from bullying the place

my 2C
as you were boys :wave:

[EuroTroll]

Perhaps it would be worth it to advertise the forum, Mark? The forum makes a bit of money, doesn't it? Why not invest? :) Advertising means more people joining, which means more people seeing the ads here, which means more new income.

Just a thought. :dozey:

[EuroTroll]

Have to agree there's not much room for those with a different opinion than the resident posters here

I don't quite understand that argument, I have to say. You're free to post differing opinions, aren't you? What do you mean there is "not much room"?


I've been called names and "Tamb" here from the start and not a moderator has intervened

Have you asked a moderator to intervene?

[Knock-on]

:laugh: Ths is cracking me up. Reminds me of when I was Moderating Owy's forum :laugh:

[BDunnell]

Except that wasn't me.

This forum is dying because there is no room for those who don't agree with a clique.

Rubbish. The reason you were banned repeatedly was, surely, because of very specific behaviour which a lot of us, as well as the moderators, thought was unacceptable. Thankfully, most people aren't like you, in that they don't exhibit behaviour such as sending offensive PMs in foreign languages.

[EuroTroll]

I just wanna say: Täna on ilus ilm, kas pole, Tamburello? :mad: :arrows:

[henners88]

Lol word on the Autosport BB is you were removed though :D
Buttoneer says hi mate :wave:
Right so now I've been banned (removed) from autosport have I? Haha this just gets better!

Quite surprised that one of their mods would be talking openly about 'removed' members though, isn't that against their house rules? :eek:

Seriously though, I think you need to log in with your other account and at least acknowledge poor Natalies introduction to you.

.......And there was me thinking we could just forgive and move on eh? This has certainly spiced up the forum for the wrong reasons. :\

[henners88]

I don't quite understand that argument, I have to say. You're free to post differing opinions, aren't you? What do you mean there is "not much room"?
Indeed. I think its a good thing we have so many posters here that can have heated debates but be sensible about it too. I don't think there is a single person on here that I haven't disagreed with at some point. If people think they are unable to have a different opinion to others without fitting in, then its a problem with the delivery in my humble opinion. Jeez I've had some rather heated exchanges with Daniel just to give a recent example, but I'd never hold a grudge. Life's too short to get bitter over comments from anonymous people on the internet, water off a ducks back. :)

[Garry Walker]

Right so now I've been banned (removed) from autosport have I? Haha this just gets better!

Quite surprised that one of their mods would be talking openly about 'removed' members though, isn't that against their house rules? :eek:

I rarely read autosport and I don't post there, but some of the moderators there are f'ckwits of the highest order, who look to live out their sad lives through being a "powerful" forum moderator.


, but I'd never hold a grudge. Life's too short to get bitter over comments from anonymous people on the internet, water off a ducks back. :)
Sadly, that does not appear to be the case with quite a few people.

[Knock-on]

^^ what them said ^^

[steveaki13]

So we have The Real Tamb back? :eek:

Now it seems we have Tamb v Tamb. :confused:

[Knock-on]

Well, either a member turns up with the character and charisma of a breeze block just before a banned member turns up, or yet another spurious identity is invented.

If the member isn't Tamb, then he might have found his soul mate as they're peas from a pod :laugh: It would be great if they got off but I suspect he might just end up ????ing himself :D

I'll just wait and see which one threatens to do me in ;)

Well, either a member turns up with the character and charisma of a breeze block just before a banned member turns up, or yet another spurious identity is invented.

If the member isn't Tamb, then he might have found his soul mate as they're peas from a pod :laugh: It would be great if they got off but I suspect he might just end up ????ing himself :D

I'll just wait and see which one threatens to do me in ;)

So, just one post and we are back to the usual barrage of rudeness and harrassment from the usual suspects.

Therefore confirming that this forum is now sadly the domain of a few and does not welcome opposite views.

Well done.

I bet Mark must be so proud of what your clique has achieved.

[Knock-on]

:laugh: Get off the cross Tamb. You're rude, abusive, aggressive and have personally threatened violence to myself and I suspect other forum members. You have been banned for legitimate reasons and rightly so, yet have returned under false identity on several occasions to continue your vile attacks on other members on here.

The only reason I haven't taken you seriously and reported you to the police for the very serious violent threats you made, not to mention the insults about my mother and your disgusting allegations insinuating I am a Paedophile, (yes, I have kept the PM's and shared them with Mods) , is because you're just a very sad individual. You are delusional and probably in need of professional help but that's not something I can help you with.

So, no. I do not welcome your views and yes, I think Mark should be proud he keeps people like you off the forum. It's testament to the Owner and Moderators patience and lenience that they have not banned your latest personas but I should imagine you will soon resume your abuse and end up with another ban.

Either way, I think feigning offence and disappointment is rather foolish and weak considering your past behaviour but just in case you are under any misunderstanding, I am still more than willing to meet up with you in person to discuss your desire to assault me rather than hide behind a keyboard. However, I doubt you will ever take me up because you're just a coward :laugh:

[Joey Zyla]

What's with all the unhappiness? :(

[steveaki13]

What's with all the unhappiness? :(

History.

[henners88]

:laugh: Get off the cross Tamb. You're rude, abusive, aggressive and have personally threatened violence to myself and I suspect other forum members. You have been banned for legitimate reasons and rightly so, yet have returned under false identity on several occasions to continue your vile attacks on other members on here.

The only reason I haven't taken you seriously and reported you to the police for the very serious violent threats you made, not to mention the insults about my mother and your disgusting allegations insinuating I am a Paedophile, (yes, I have kept the PM's and shared them with Mods) , is because you're just a very sad individual. You are delusional and probably in need of professional help but that's not something I can help you with.
That's some pretty alarming reading Knock-on, I don't think I would have resisted the urge to report this to the police though. I've reported cyber crime before and believe me it is taken seriously especially if threats and defamation are concerned. I did report it through my brother who's a copper, but hope its the same procedure for everybody. I can't believe someone would get so worked up over a bleeding forum for goodness sake! :eek:

Spicy.

Your signature and some of your posts on this thread are cyber-bullying Mr Knock, so do as you please....and so will I.

[Mark]

That'll do.