24 Hours of Le Mans

[Raceman]

Hello everybody. I plan my first visit at the 24 Hours of LeMans. In addition I have a few questions for the experts: Tickets: Can I look at the normal ticket at all points except the tribunes einlang the track right? You can see the curves of Arnage well? Coming with this ticket and the paddock or is this locked down? Camping: Give it to the campgrounds around the track that also electricity and plumbing.
Would be nice if you could give me some tips.
Greeting Raceman

[eppel]

Petter Solberg will properly start Le Mans with Oreca.

14. februar 2013 - Petter Solberg om fremtiden (http://tn.inviso.no/melody_ostfold/musicvideo.php?vid=b6ef1178b)

[jimclark]

May I suggest Club Arnage - Index (http://www.clubarnage.com/forum/index.php)

It's devoted to Le Mans

[Bogador Xp]

uh nice 24 houre of le mans .. have fun and a good time

[jimclark]

Petter Solberg will properly start Le Mans with Oreca.

14. februar 2013 - Petter Solberg om fremtiden (http://tn.inviso.no/melody_ostfold/musicvideo.php?vid=b6ef1178b)

What has this to do with the OPs question???

[ProRally]

Who is going to 24h Le Mans ?
Will be there from 5 to 9 and 14 to 24 june

[chriswadsworth]

GreenGT not going to LEMANS in garage 56,

[jimclark]

GreenGT not going to LEMANS in garage 56,

Wouldn't it be advisable to ad a link? Such as... Withdrawal: GreenGT Technologies will be replaced the ProSpeed Racing team | The official website of 24 Heures du Mans (http://www.24h-lemans.com/en/news/withdrawal-greengt-technologies-will-be-replaced-the-prospeed-racing-team_2_2_1746_10796.html)

[chriswadsworth]

Prospeed Porsche Gets Le Mans Entry
The GTE-AM Prospeed Porsche will take up the 56th entry slot for the 2013 Le Mans 24 Hours
The #75 Porsche 911 GT3 RSR will be driven by Emmanuel Collard, François Perodo and Sébastien Crubilé. Perodo-Crublé and is a full season entry for the 2013 European Le Mans Series.
That brings the mix for the great race to 8 LM P1s, 22 LM P2s, 12 LM GTE PROs and 14 LM GTE Ams.
Vincent Beaumesnil, Automobile Club de l’Ouest’s Sports Manager:
“We do not regret having chosen the Green GT H2. There was a realistic possibility of seeing it at the Le Mans 24 Hours as the fuel cell, the fundamental element of the project, worked remarkably well. Basically the team didn’t have enough time to develop the car, which simply lacked adaption to racing. In its place we’re delighted to welcome the ProSpeed team, which is back for its fourth outing in the Le Mans 24 Hours. The 2013 field is now complete: its overall high-quality promises a remarkable anniversary race

[ProRally]

I am curious if the will pick up the last reserve, to fill box 56

[jimclark]

I am curious if the will pick up the last reserve, to fill box 56

'Can't be that curious... The answer is in my post above yours....

[chriswadsworth]

The GTE-AM Prospeed Porsche will take up the 56th entry slot for the 2013 Le Mans 24 Hour

[ProRally]

'Can't be that curious... The answer is in my post above yours....
True, and they are 3 boxes down from us, team had everything on stand by for just this case.
Anyway test day went great, now looking forward to next week

[steveaki13]

One of my favourite motorsports weekends of the year.

Who is going to try and last the 24 hours?

[dhess68]

I did it last year, it wasn't pretty and there was no coffee left in the house once it was over. I may have dozed off..maybe at the 2am hr? Just for a few but stayed up for the rest.

[steveaki13]

I have tried sleeping during the race at night, but I find it a strange feeling to wake up again after missing so much.

So I have recently tried the whole thing. Occasionally drifting in and out of sleep.

[steveaki13]

As an F1 fan, its good to see so many F1 drivers on the entry list.

I count 17 at a quick glance.

2013 24 Hours of Le Mans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans)

[zako85]

In order to understand how the teams and cars (not all of them of course) roughly compared to each other before this race, I looked at the results section for the 2013 World Endurance Championship season.

2013 FIA World Endurance Championship season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIA_World_Endurance_Championship_season)

Le Mans is the third race of this season. So far it looks like in LMP1, the Audi team dominates Toyota having taken 1-2 and 1-2-3 is the first two races. Unless Toyota finds a new source of speed, they can only hope for unreliability or other bad luck in the Audi camp.

The the GT classes in the first two races seem to have been dominated by Aston Martin and Ferrari. The GT class competition in Le Mans almost certainly must be more interesting, because besides Aston, Ferrari, and Porsche, some teams will bring Corvette and SRT Viper to this fight. Right now Porsche 911 is probably not expected to be the class leader as the current Porsche racer is the GT3 RSR car from the previous 997 family of cars, while the company is in the middle of designing new 991 based race car.

[big_sw2000]

The LM GTEPRO Porsche 911 GT3s are the new 991 model. As raced at Silverstone in April. The Porsche AG team.

[jimclark]

In order to understand how the teams and cars (not all of them of course) roughly compared to each other before this race, I looked at the results section for the 2013 World Endurance Championship season.

2013 FIA World Endurance Championship season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_FIA_World_Endurance_Championship_season)

Le Mans is the third race of this season. So far it looks like in LMP1, the Audi team dominates Toyota having taken 1-2 and 1-2-3 is the first two races. Unless Toyota finds a new source of speed, they can only hope for unreliability or other bad luck in the Audi camp.

The the GT classes in the first two races seem to have been dominated by Aston Martin and Ferrari. The GT class competition in Le Mans almost certainly must be more interesting, because besides Aston, Ferrari, and Porsche, some teams will bring Corvette and SRT Viper to this fight. Right now Porsche 911 is probably not expected to be the class leader as the current Porsche racer is the GT3 RSR car from the previous 997 family of cars, while the company is in the middle of designing new 991 based race car.

Huh??? All of the above confused the living sheet out of me... If Toyota " having taken 1-2 and 1-2-3 is the first two races", how has Audi dominated??? (I'm playing devils advocate, of course)....

[Ranger]

I would be amazed if it wasn't anything other than an Audi 1-2 or 1-2-3 in the race.

[MrJan]

I would be amazed if it wasn't anything other than an Audi 1-2 or 1-2-3 in the race.

An awful lot can happen in 24 hours though, look at the accidents of McNish and Davidson in the last 2 years to see how easy it is for a front running car to end up with a DNF.

[zako85]

I am surprised Toyota is running only two cars considering they already know how easy it's to lose both of them.

[steveaki13]

24 hours is tough. I expect one Audi to struggle at some point, so a podium chance for Toyota.

Who knows though in 24 hours you can lose 3 cars, unlikely but a small chance of a Toyota win.

I do expect though a 1-2 at least for Audi realistically.


Not many people on here talking about it. Shame.

[steveaki13]

So we are away, a Toyota fancying some fun passing the Audi 3 car straight off. And Audi 1 straight into the lead.

Now Toyota passing for 2nd. Lapierre starting brightly. Fun to see.

[steveaki13]

Heidfeld doing a decent job too.

Live timing is great for this race, I dont bother with it for F1, but over 24 hours its a must

[Ranger]

So we are away, a Toyota fancying some fun passing the Audi 3 car straight off. And Audi 1 straight into the lead.

Now Toyota passing for 2nd. Lapierre starting brightly. Fun to see.

Yep, brilliant start from the #7 Toyota.

First SC after 10 minutes, that's gotta hurt for the Aston Martin team. I have no idea what's actually happening as I don't have commentary on my stream.


An awful lot can happen in 24 hours though, look at the accidents of McNish and Davidson in the last 2 years to see how easy it is for a front running car to end up with a DNF.

True.

Though I find it hard to think that the Audi's would have more reliability issues more than the Toyotas.

Even with 2 cars out due to crashes, Audi still won in 2011. They had a 1-2-3 last year despite initial promise by the Toyotas.

Here's hoping they stay in the game long enough to have at least a strong chance of winning.

[steveaki13]

No replays captured the actual initial incident for the Aston. Only the end result. Commentators have no idea yet. They hope to hear via garage soon as to what happened to Simonsen.

[Ranger]

No replays captured the actual initial incident for the Aston. Only the end result. Commentators have no idea yet. They hope to hear via garage soon as to what happened to Simonsen.

I'd hate to think how he would feel if it was a driver error, 9 minutes into a 24 hour race. :\

Been under Safety Car for half an hour now.

[IndyCarFan]

I was watching the start of the race on the Corvette in car camera via streaming on the net. An Aston Martin, I don't know which one but it had Gulf colors, was right in front of the Corvette I was on board with. I went into the other room to see the Speed broadcast after a couple of laps and the crash happened about 10 second after I got in there. Seems to me the Corvette in car camera would have captured something unless the Corvette had just passed the AM. Hope he's okay. That was a big hit.

[IndyCarFan]

He just lost it exiting Forza. Corvette onboard:

ONBOARD 24H Le Mans 2013 Aston Martin Crash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbXbGAOQekI)

[MrJan]

Said on the Eurosport broadcast that they've seen the on board and there didn't appear to be any contact with another driver but that he may have been distracted by 3 cars touching ahead of him. Then wheel on the kerb and it snapped on him while trying to catch the slide. Not too dissimilar to what the #96 car just did.

The big halt helped me as I had trouble with my internet and was able to drive to my folks during the SC, meaning that I didn't miss too much of the early laps.

[MrJan]

First SC after 10 minutes, that's gotta hurt for the Aston Martin team. I have no idea what's actually happening as I don't have commentary on my stream.


time4tv.com and pick the British Eurosport or Eurosport2 links (it's on Eurosport at the minute but will switch to Eurosport2 later). Stable stream for me at the minute.

[Ranger]

Said on the Eurosport broadcast that they've seen the on board and there didn't appear to be any contact with another driver but that he may have been distracted by 3 cars touching ahead of him. Then wheel on the kerb and it snapped on him while trying to catch the slide. Not too dissimilar to what the #96 car just did.

The big halt helped me as I had trouble with my internet and was able to drive to my folks during the SC, meaning that I didn't miss too much of the early laps.

The safety car was out for 50 minutes, it was pretty excruciating viewing.

Looks very dark and greasy on track now.

[Ranger]

time4tv.com and pick the British Eurosport or Eurosport2 links (it's on Eurosport at the minute but will switch to Eurosport2 later). Stable stream for me at the minute.

Thanks Jan, but the page doesn't load for me at all. I'll check again in the morning, if I'm not careful I'll end up watching it all night! :\

[MrJan]

He just lost it exiting Forza. Corvette onboard:

ONBOARD 24H Le Mans 2013 Aston Martin Crash - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbXbGAOQekI)

It was Tetre Rouge, not Forza. Forza is the name of the first chicane this year. Pretty nasty the way it speared off like that, the car just completely snapped on him. Hope he's okay, the reports were that he was conscious but still hasn't been assessed at hospital.


The safety car was out for 50 minutes, it was pretty excruciating viewing.

Yeah I was watching a few years ago when there was that huge stoppage because of the big Audi crash between Mulsanne corner and Indianapolis (forget the name of the fella), think that was 45 minutes plus of watching cars behind the safety car in the dark.

Race seems to be settling into it's rhythm now, although the light rain is adding a bit of jeopardy.

[steveaki13]

They had to repair a large section of barrier, but 50 minutes seemed quite a long time.

The conditions are really tricky, seen plenty of cars having trips through the gravel traps.

Any news on Simonsen's condition? That was a bad error so early but a big hit, so would like to hear he is OK. Last I heard he was on route to hospital but was conscious.

[Ranger]

#7 Toyota stopped on track... and now it's started again.

:confused:

[steveaki13]

No. 7 Toyota in trouble, so thats a shame. 21 hours+ to go and one challenger to the Audi's gone.

Audi settling down now and its an inter Audi battle that is shaping up nicely.

[steveaki13]

one challenger to the Audi's gone.

.

Well not gone, but falling back

[steveaki13]

Weird lost 1 minute 10 seconds and now is running OK again?

Electrical problem?

[Ranger]

Yeah I was watching a few years ago when there was that huge stoppage because of the big Audi crash between Mulsanne corner and Indianapolis (forget the name of the fella), think that was 45 minutes plus of watching cars behind the safety car in the dark.

Mike Rockenfeller, that was a huge crash.

[MrJan]

Weird lost 1 minute 10 seconds and now is running OK again?

Electrical problem?

And a 3:42 for his first flying lap after getting going again, hardly flat out pace.

[steveaki13]

And a 3:42 for his first flying lap after getting going again, hardly flat out pace.

I dont know, 3:42 in these damp conditions. Is not too far off the pace is it.

Lets see his best lap 3:28.9 and now a 3:42.0 follwed by a 3:43. in damp conditions, he is now faster than Davidson his team mate, so I think his pace is OK.

[steveaki13]

The amount of ads on Eurosport is annoying.

At least they dont last 3 or 4 minutes I suppose

[steveaki13]

You'd think as a motorsport forum we would see a few more people posting here. ???? disappointing.

[MrJan]

You'd think as a motorsport forum we would see a few more people posting here. ???? disappointing.

It's never overly busy for Le Mans, few people seem to actually sit down and watch it. I really enjoy it though, I missed a lot of last year's race because I was actually competing but I think that the year before I managed 18 hours of it. Doubt I'll watch that much this year though, I'll dip out to watch the hockey and get some sleep (partly because I'm soft and partly because I'm going to Glastonbury later in the week and don't want to be tired before I get there!)

[Alfa Fan]

News is that it appears Allan Simonsen has died following the crash earlier.

Now confirmed on Eurosport. Terrible, truly terrible.

[Ranger]

News is that it appears Allan Simonsen has died following the crash earlier.

Now confirmed on Eurosport. Terrible, truly terrible.

No way.

EDIT: Confirmed on Autosport as well.

Devastating news, the thought never crossed my mind that he was even badly injured.

RIP Allan Simonsen, condolences to his family and friends. :(

[steveaki13]

News is that it appears Allan Simonsen has died following the crash earlier.

Now confirmed on Eurosport. Terrible, truly terrible.


Such sad and unbelievable news.

It didnt seem that bigger hit, but I guess in motorsport you never quite know what you hit at what point.

Made even worse as the early news was seemly positive.

Cant My first live motorsport death for a long time that I have had the misfortune to see. A trully terrible incident.

One driver interviewed on Eurosport seemed to suggest the car went through the barrier and bounced off a tree behind it. (That is only what I thought I heard him saying - not official). If so that is a bizzare freak of an accident, afterall these barriers are usually so strong.

Lets wait for official word though.

[MrJan]

Sad, sad news. I did fear the worst as we hadn't heard anything and it was obviously a huge impact. As my old man said, it's really taken the edge off the race as it's hard to get excited about the motorsport when something so terrible has happened.

[Alfa Fan]

I've been hearing that involved an impact with a tree as well, and also speculation (I stress speculation) that there was an equipment failure in the car, possibly related to the seat. We've seen seemingly worse impacts at Le Mans in recent years, like the #1 Audi in 2011 where the driver suffered far lesser injuries.

[steveaki13]

RIP Allan Simonsen, condolences to his family and friends. :(

Im sure all us on here and everyone in motorsport echo's your sentiment.

RIP Allan

[steveaki13]

I've been hearing that involved an impact with a tree as well, and also speculation (I stress speculation) that there was an equipment failure in the car, possibly related to the seat. We've seen seemingly worse impacts at Le Mans in recent years, like the #1 Audi in 2011 where the driver suffered far lesser injuries.

This is right. It looked like the kind of impact you would be dazed by, but not seriously injured these days.

If this speculation is found to be true, then investigatin needs to be launched on how a barrier allowed a car to puncture a hole through it.

[Ranger]

I'd hate to think how he would feel if it was a driver error, 9 minutes into a 24 hour race. :\


I feel quite bad for saying this now, given the events that transpired. :(

[Alfa Fan]

I feel quite bad for saying this now, given the events that transpired. :(

Nobody could have known at that point. It looked like a routine accident until it took so long to clear.

[MrJan]

I feel quite bad for saying this now, given the events that transpired. :(

You weren't to have known and the statement itself is perfectly true, don't beat yourself up over it.

So sad that this will probably mean that Le Mans will be in the news but for all the wrong reasons. It's regrettable that on the few times that motorsport makes it to mainstream media usually involves a fatality or serious injury.

[steveaki13]

I have posted a thread : RIP Allan Simonsen in the main Chit Chat thread so others who may not be following the race or not viewing this thread can pay respect to him.


Dont feel bad Ranger, I too thought it was crazy to make a mistake that early and made a flipent remark.
Its one of those things that no one can know at the time.

It is a nasty reminder though that motorsport is still very dangerous. Something we all forget at times with modern safety standards.

[BDunnell]

So sad that this will probably mean that Le Mans will be in the news but for all the wrong reasons. It's regrettable that on the few times that motorsport makes it to mainstream media usually involves a fatality or serious injury.

Well, quite. And you can bet that in no way will the reporting concentrate on how remarkable it is, given the severity of certain accidents, that this is the first fatality during the race itself since Jo Gartner in 1986.

[steveaki13]

As the commentators said, the team will carry on racing hard for the win in his memory.

In a similar way, we should continue to watch the race and appreciate the risks the guys take for the sport and our entertainment. They are brave men and women.

[steveaki13]

Well, quite. And you can bet that in no way will the reporting concentrate on how remarkable it is, given the severity of certain accidents, that this is the first fatality during the race itself since Jo Gartner in 1986.

Exactly that in itself speaks volumes for the work and progress motorsport is making.

[steveaki13]

Back into the Race.

These conditions are making this a very tricky first 4 hours. It has drizzled and dried out about 4 times now.

[MrJan]

Back into the Race.

These conditions are making this a very tricky first 4 hours. It has drizzled and dried out about 4 times now.

The Anthony Davidson rant about being on slicks was quite good. He must have been hammering down Mulsanne and even paused, presumably to go through one of the chicanes, before carrying on complaining :D :up:

[steveaki13]

I know it was classic.

[BDunnell]

Exactly that in itself speaks volumes for the work and progress motorsport is making.

It does. However, the initial unconfirmed (can't stress that word enough) reports of what happened would, if borne out by the facts, suggest that progress we thought had been made in other areas might not necessarily have gone far enough. Time will tell.

[Allyc85]

RIP Allan Simonsen :(

Hopefully Aston Martin can get the win as a tribute to him.

[steveaki13]

It does. However, the initial unconfirmed (can't stress that word enough) reports of what happened would, if borne out by the facts, suggest that progress we thought had been made in other areas might not necessarily have gone far enough. Time will tell.

Thats true, we discussed that above. If as you say its true a tree was involved, that is a big question mark over the barriers and safety.

Although as I said progress has been made in leaps and bounds, there is still areas that are an issue and its always sad it takes this sort of incident for people to realise there is always more that can be done.

[steveaki13]

Well the Aston team were running 1 and 2 earlier, but a Porsche has split them now, but a long way to go. It would be a emotional and wonderful tribute to Allan Simonsen

[steveaki13]

3 cars appear out at the moment.

The Aston though Simonsens sad accident

Also No. 31 Lotus and No. 28 Lola.

[MrJan]

I don't think that you can ever eliminate all risk from motorsport, and if you did then it would lose a lot of what makes it exciting.

You also have to consider the location of the accident. There aren't many accidents at Tetre Rouge that would result in a car going head first into the barrier at that spot, far more likely to end up in the gravel, in the armco on the inside or spinning off down Mulsanne.

[steveaki13]

Thats true and I agree to a point, but when a car pierces a hole and hits a tree (potentially if that did occur) that is a risk that needs to be eliminated. At least in circuit racing. If you are Rallying then its part of the job I suppose, but for this event I think that needs looking at.

[jimclark]

You'd think as a motorsport forum we would see a few more people posting here. ???? disappointing.

Everybody's over at the Ten-Tenths board or on the chat....

[BDunnell]

I don't think that you can ever eliminate all risk from motorsport, and if you did then it would lose a lot of what makes it exciting.

I have a great deal of sympathy for this view. However, if (again stressing that word) the car did somehow hit a tree on the other side of the barrier, I thought that such accidents were well and truly a thing of the past. That's not the sort of risk I consider acceptable.

[Ranger]

It makes you appreciate just how lucky Mike Rockenfeller was in 2011.

There should be lots of discussion about the armco barrier quality in the days to come.

[MrJan]

I have a great deal of sympathy for this view. However, if (again stressing that word) the car did somehow hit a tree on the other side of the barrier, I thought that such accidents were well and truly a thing of the past. That's not the sort of risk I consider acceptable.

I would generally agree that it's unacceptable for a barrier to be that weak. The one caveat I would place is that it's not the kind of place that you would predict a car would be heading, and certainly not at the kind of speed that Simonsen would have hit it.

I quite agree that there needs to be discussion on this matter and questions need to be asked as to whether the barrier in that area was as strong as it is around the rest of the track. If it is then we know that it's up to fairly heavy impacts (as with Mike Rockenfeller and others). If it's not then you really have to wonder why an even that surely must raise a good revenue is skimping on safety. It's still all conjecture at the minute though, this is largely based on rumour and hearsay,

[steveaki13]

Question I was just asked. Which I wasnt sure about. Do the teams tell the drivers during the race?

I suppose with twitter and the internet drivers find out easy enough

[MrJan]

Question I was just asked. Which I wasnt sure about. Do the teams tell the drivers during the race?

I suppose with twitter and the internet drivers find out easy enough

I'd have thought so, however Ant Davidson tweeted something about having had a difficult stint and didn't mention anything else, so I presume that at the time he was unaware.

[BleAivano]

I have a great deal of sympathy for this view. However, if (again stressing that word) the car did somehow hit a tree on the other side of the barrier, I thought that such accidents were well and truly a thing of the past. That's not the sort of risk I consider acceptable.

I think the problem is that if the barrier is too strong, then the barrier itself would be too dangerous as well.
Perhaps they could have some sort of flexing barrier that will absorb the impact energy in a much better way then current barriers/fences.

In speedway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway) they used to have semi-fixed fences (http://www.stockholm.se/Web/Core/Pages/Special/StreamServiceGuideImage.aspx?path=%2FWeb%2FCore%2F Pages%2FSpecial%2FServiceGuideFile.aspx%3Ffileid%3 D69a8db48fd2546468fd18ea837206833) that was quite dangerous but nowadays
most tracks uses air fences (http://www.smederna.nu/gallery/1270989508.579.jpg)which have been a major safety improvement.

Obviously the exact same solution would not bee possible but something with the same principle of function.

[MrJan]

#1 In the garage not long after a stop and #3 on the way back from Dunlop chicane on 3 wheels. Everything seemed to be going so well for Audi and then 2 problems in quick succession. I suspect that #3 won't be much of an issue, but it's still let Toyota get their foot back in the door.

[steveaki13]

#1 In the garage not long after a stop and #3 on the way back from Dunlop chicane on 3 wheels. Everything seemed to be going so well for Audi and then 2 problems in quick succession. I suspect that #3 won't be much of an issue, but it's still let Toyota get their foot back in the door.


Shows how amazing the 24 hours can be.

Toyota 2-3 and way ahead of #1 who must have lost a lap at least by now, #3 will have lost minutes. Have Toyota got the pace to hold off their recoveries?

Also now suddenly just 1 car ahead of them. Their is a sniff off a win.


Great Stuff

[MrJan]

Shows how amazing the 24 hours can be.

Toyota 2-3 and way ahead of #1 who must have lost a lap at least by now, #3 will have lost minutes. Have Toyota got the pace to hold off their recoveries?

Also now suddenly just 1 car ahead of them. Their is a sniff off a win.


Great Stuff

Rear drivetrain out apparently and lost at least 5 laps (more like 6 now). Apparently a crankshaft sensor gone, which can affect all sorts such as gear changes etc. They're putting it back together now but I reckon they'll be 7 or 8 laps back by the time they get back out.

[Daniel]

Thats true and I agree to a point, but when a car pierces a hole and hits a tree (potentially if that did occur) that is a risk that needs to be eliminated. At least in circuit racing. If you are Rallying then its part of the job I suppose, but for this event I think that needs looking at.

Personally I don't think that appears to be what happened. If the car had hit a tree then I don't think it would have bounced back onto the track so far. Trees tend to keep a hold of cars to a certain extent.

As someone said on Facebook, it was the type of accident that happened which caused the end result, this wasn't an impact that happened across seconds like Rockenfeller and McNish's 2011 accidents, this was short and sharp. One wonders why perhaps there wasn't a tyre wall there? Obviously we need to know what actually happened before knowing how it could have been averted, if as someone else said, it was a seat failure, then there may have been nothing at all that could have been done. If a seat fails then you're at the mercy of the gods and you could be lucky like Ari Vatanen or not so lucky. Only time will tell.

[steveaki13]

Rear drivetrain out apparently and lost at least 5 laps (more like 6 now). Apparently a crankshaft sensor gone, which can affect all sorts such as gear changes etc. They're putting it back together now but I reckon they'll be 7 or 8 laps back by the time they get back out.

Yer, so #1 is out of the battle for podium, so its 2 Audis and 2 Toyotas for 3 podium places

[BleAivano]

Yer, so #1 is out of the battle for podium, so its 2 Audis and 2 Toyotas for 3 podium places

Way to early for that types of conclusions, we saw how quickly things can change.
With 16½ hours to go, allot of things can go wrong. Mechanical problems, flat tires, driver errors.
Mistake while lapping and etc....

[MrJan]

........

Well look what the cat dragged in :laugh: Haven't seen your name around these parts for a while.

Still way too early to predict any results, we haven't even begun to nudge close to the half way point and it's only just started to get dark. With plenty of talk still about rain I think that it's going to be a long race with a lot more twists and turns.

[steveaki13]

Hear what you are saying but #1 is 21st an 11 laps down, so for the 4 leaders to have 9 or 10 laps worth of problems is unlikely a they are on similar pace.

#1 could still gain 7 laps to finish 5th as it stands and even 3rd or 4th with retirements but in terms of battling the top 4 as it stands would be a miracle surely.

[steveaki13]

Agree about the accident, I was only suggesting as a driver following Simonsen said he had seen the tree behind the barrier marked.

Still dont know what happened for certain.

[MrJan]

3 car in the garage now. Doesn't look as serious as the #1's problems but still could lose a bit of time. The saving grace is that the SC is out at the minute, so everyone else is circulating slowly.

[Daniel]

Well look what the cat dragged in :laugh: Haven't seen your name around these parts for a while.

Still way too early to predict any results, we haven't even begun to nudge close to the half way point and it's only just started to get dark. With plenty of talk still about rain I think that it's going to be a long race with a lot more twists and turns.

I'm always watching Le Mans :) can't quite get into the race this year for some reason.

[Wim_Impreza]

I'm always watching Le Mans :)

Me too. It is the best circuit race in the world in my opinion, but as a Belgian of course I like the 24 hours of Spa-Francorchamps too, which will have around 70 cars at the start this year. :)

Still I have a mixed feeling about this year Le Mans with the dead of Simonsen, R.I.P. :(

[steveaki13]

I'm always watching Le Mans :) can't quite get into the race this year for some reason.

Nice to hear.... well read you again Daniel after so long.

Its understandable. This race will never get us as excited after events today. Still an interesting race though, especially after the recent issues for Audi.

[steveaki13]

It is also enjoyable to discuss a race without any trolling. Just people enjoying the race.

[BDunnell]

It is also enjoyable to discuss a race without any trolling. Just people enjoying the race.

And that only happens when it appeals solely to true enthusiasts, as opposed to 'fans'. Sports car racing generally isn't the domain of idiots.

[BDunnell]

This race will never get us as excited after events today. Still an interesting race though, especially after the recent issues for Audi.

This is another indication of how rare fatal accidents are nowadays. Quite rightly, the 1969 race is revered as one of the greatest ever and was at the time, too, in spite of the fact that John Woolfe was killed in a violent accident on the first lap (to say nothing of Lucien Bianchi's death at the test weekend).

[steveaki13]

This race could absolutely still become a classic race, but as we have said things being as they are today, the wider world will only remember poor Simonsen.

Not saying thats wrong of course, but as you say times change.


As for this race I am enjoying it alot, interesting to see if that #2 Audi runs trouble free. I have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing a Toyota win, albeit through racing rather than retirements.

[steveaki13]

I saw an interview earlier with Giancarlo Fisichella and he was very visibly upset over Simonsens death, and comparing to other drivers seemed in a bad state in terms of being able to drive.

As I write car #88 in the gravel and out of 1st place in the GT Am Class. Another SC they are suggesting.

[steveaki13]

So just over 13 hours left and I am still watching.

Anyone else still up and committed?

Anyway we now seem to have 5 retirements and 51 cars left spread out by 33 Laps.

Still only a couple of minutes covering 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Its looking a decent battle. Still only 1 lap behind the lead Audi too.

[EightGear]

Yay wakey wakey!

Not much happening now though.

[steveaki13]

We are into the real night leg now though and things can really change now.

[rjbetty]

Ohhh Night Driving :)

Just got in from a 14 hour shift by the way.

[Alfa Fan]

Another nasty crash. Looks like the drivers out this time thank god.

[Daniel]

It is also enjoyable to discuss a race without any trolling. Just people enjoying the race.

What Ben said is completely true. People watch Le Mans for the racing and nothing more.......

[MrJan]

Huge accident out of the Porsche Curves, I was amazed to see him get out of the car under his own steam and walk away, was really fearing the worst.

Some great onboard shots at the minute, the speed that's being carried is phenomenal, the entry to Indianapolis is fantastic.

[Ranger]

Did not expect to tune back in to find that Audi #1 and #3 hit trouble!

[Alfa Fan]

BS call from race director. Shouldn't keep safety car out just to allow others to chance tyres.

[Ranger]

BS call from race director. Shouldn't keep safety car out just to allow others to chance tyres.

Yep, that was a brilliant call by the #8 Toyota team which has just been completely undone.

[Alfa Fan]

Why aren't we racing?!

[Ranger]

At least we still have a race on our hands. Still 2:27 between the #2 Audi and the #8 Toyota with only a second or two back to the #7.

[steveaki13]

Not proud of it but had to give up and get some sleep. Time to see whats been happening

[Ranger]

One of the Eurosport commentators at the moment has an incredibly annoying voice.

[steveaki13]

Just had a catch up overnight. That was a huge shunt wasn't it for #30. Great to see the driver seemingly walking away.

Also a comic incident with the slow LMP2 car not being aware and collecting a couple of unsuspecting GT cars.

So Audi #2 is looking good thus far. A nice Lap and a bit gap so in terms of driving they can take it steady and just watch for mistakes and mechanical issues.

Toyota #8 is just over a lap behind and Wurz in the #7 car is all but 2 laps down now and Audi #3 is a safety car behind Wurz so a nice battle for Podiums is still on.

Also a great drive from #1 crew. They were 25th at one point and in only 6 or 7 hours are back up to 6th even passing fellow LMP1 cars.

[steveaki13]

Oh no #13 Lola from 5th into the barrier and now another SC and could be a long one. Its damaged another barrier.

Audi #1 should be able to gain 5th now.

Could be another long SC.

[steveaki13]

How sad.

Another big impact for Aston. Drivers OK but any hope of a win has gone.

[MrJan]

Well I was really soft and had a good few hours sleep. I saw the safety car after the barriers were screwed at Dunlop Chicane and woke up just to see the tail end of the SC for the Aston crash.

Disappointing to see that the Porsche now leads GTE Pro but Darren Turner doesn't look too far behind so I hope that Aston can still do it :up:

[Daniel]

Jeez, that Ferrari pitstop was a bloody shambles.

[steveaki13]

Not great. Leaving with fuel hose on, then releasing into the side of another car.

Oh dear.

[steveaki13]

More Rain on the way

[MrJan]

Jeez, that Ferrari pitstop was a bloody shambles.

It would be easy to blame tiredness for that, but it was pretty much just several kinds of f**k up at once.

Lotterer on the 'intermediate', unlikely to improve his position but can be a great guinea pig for the 2 and 3 cars.

[Daniel]

No one hurt at least, that's what matters

[MrJan]

Turner still gradually winding in the #92 Porsche, really hope that the Aston can bridge the gap over the next 3 hours or so.

[ioan]

Disappointed with the huge amount and length of SC periods, it sure must be some kind of a record.

[MrJan]

Disappointed with the huge amount and length of SC periods, it sure must be some kind of a record.

It's exactly equal with the record, 4 hours 53 minutes. These things happen though, I don't think that any of the SC periods were unnecessary, there have just been a big number of big accidents.

[Ranger]

Disappointed with the huge amount and length of SC periods, it sure must be some kind of a record.

The problem has been the armco barriers. They will no doubt have to be re-designed or changed before next year's race.

There's only really been 2 laps where I don't think the SC should not have been out, but given the circumstances I think it was probably appropriate.

Rain again.

[ioan]

You guys are right, I stayed up until 5AM and there have been SC after SC period, those barriers are a bit of a joke. Ever time about 30 minutes to repair them.
I also got the impression that a few times the race direction did try to favor some of the runners by keeping the SC out a bit longer then needed.

[MrJan]

I also got the impression that a few times the race direction did try to favor some of the runners by keeping the SC out a bit longer then needed.

I think that when the SC stayed out while it was raining (just after Toyota had changed to inters) it was a case of safety rather than anything else. After the other SC periods we had seen quite a few people spinning on cold tyres, and that was during the day (when it was warmer) and in the dry. All in all I think that it was just a sensible decision to stop people from crashing again.

Race is on now in GTE Pro. Go Mucke!!!

[Ranger]

#7 Toyota has crashed out at Porsche Curves!!

EDIT: Safety Car. Really hope this doesn't take 30 minutes...

[ioan]

Well, this will be a SC record now.

[ioan]

Lapierre should have waited a bit with his off, he might have been able to safeguard 3rd place with the rain coming down.

[Ranger]

Can we have a green flag yet??

[MrJan]

Well that's ****ed the whole race. Nose to tail stuff in Pro, drivers make different choices for tyres and then the stupid safety car system puts the Aston into third and a lap down, which makes no sense whatsoever.

And beyond that does anyone know exactly why the SC is still out? Track looks clear to me and the cars have been cleared.

[wedge]

You'd think as a motorsport forum we would see a few more people posting here. ???? disappointing.

And by the same token why is that LM24 is the only time some people make any effort to follow endurance racing?

[ioan]

Well that's ****ed the whole race. Nose to tail stuff in Pro, drivers make different choices for tyres and then the stupid safety car system puts the Aston into third and a lap down, which makes no sense whatsoever.

And beyond that does anyone know exactly why the SC is still out? Track looks clear to me and the cars have been cleared.

Just heard Davidson complain about the road being wet! Maybe too many ex-F1 drivers in LMS is turning the LeMans race into a F1 type SC show?! ;)

BTW excellent strategy by Porsche in GTE Pro class. They read the situation the right way and got quite an advantage out of this triple SC system.

[ioan]

So we are getting 30 minutes of racing after SCs pull in in a moment.

[Ranger]

Well that's ****ed the whole race. Nose to tail stuff in Pro, drivers make different choices for tyres and then the stupid safety car system puts the Aston into third and a lap down, which makes no sense whatsoever.


AUTOSPORT Live: 81st Le Mans 24 Hours - Le Mans 2013 (http://live.autosport.com/commentary.php/id/604)


Some deciphering of the lead Pro battle between us has resulted in this conclusion:

Mucke stopped when the rain first fell while Lietz continued. He took on inters, but the team then replaced them immediately with slicks because the track looked dry.

When the heavens opened even more, he came back in the following lap for wets - but Lietz again stayed out. Meanwhile, the Pilet Porsche was fitted with wets.

The end result of that is Lietz a lap in front of Pilet, with Mucke now down in third. We reckon Lietz is going to need another fuel stop, but even so, Porsche have both cases covered with a car on slicks and a car on wets.

Get that?

[Ranger]

Well I have to say I'm a little disappointed really.

Congratulations to all the winners.

[ioan]

Well I have to say I'm a little disappointed really.

Congratulations to all the winners.

Same here.

RIP Alan Simmonsen
Condolences to his family and friends

Congratulations to those who managed to finish.

[ioan]

While the Toyotas were quite reliable they were not close enough in terms of outright speed, other then in changing conditions and those conditions were more or less removed from the race by the 1001 lengthy Safety Car periods.
Being 50 HP down is not helping either, I wish the organizers would stop trying to find the magic formula and let them all race under a stable set of rules.

[steveaki13]

Well done to all the winners and those who finished.

Condolences to those who know and were involved with Allan Simonsen

[steveaki13]

And by the same token why is that LM24 is the only time some people make any effort to follow endurance racing?

Wow that seems very bitter.

Dont quite know how you know what I follow, but I follow many sports avidly and actively follow several motorsports to a great and lesser degree.

I attend live race meetings so with all these things combined I dont always post about every race I watch. I have followed several endurance catergories over the years. Not always as reguarly as I would like due to conflicting events and interests.

I was simply stating that as I decided to post this year about the Le Mans 24 hours (it being probably the premier 24 hour race), I was sad more people werent around. Its always best to post with many others.

Why so angry about a simple observation? Chill a bit

[big_sw2000]

Wow that seems very bitter.

Dont quite know how you know what I follow, but I follow many sports avidly and actively follow several motorsports to a great and lesser degree.

I attend live race meetings so with all these things combined I dont always post about every race I watch. I have followed several endurance catergories over the years. Not always as reguarly as I would like due to conflicting events and interests.

I was simply stating that as I decided to post this year about the Le Mans 24 hours (it being probably the premier 24 hour race), I was sad more people werent around. Its always best to post with many others.

Why so angry about a simple observation? Chill a bit

I agree with what wedge is saying hear. I follow endurance racing, but hardly post hear, as this part of the forum is rubbish. Proof of this was the WEC Silverstone thread, I posted. It had Wedge, and one other person. 9 posts. Hardly a worth while discussion. I think that's what wedge was getting at, not a dig at you

[MrJan]

And by the same token why is that LM24 is the only time some people make any effort to follow endurance racing?

Perhaps because it's much easier to follow Le Mans because it's on so many different platforms?

[Wim_Impreza]

Just heard Davidson complain about the road being wet! Maybe too many ex-F1 drivers in LMS is turning the LeMans race into a F1 type SC show?! ;)

BTW excellent strategy by Porsche in GTE Pro class. They read the situation the right way and got quite an advantage out of this triple SC system.

Davidson is still thinking he is driving in F1 then, where they don't race in wet conditions in the most recent years. He was also crying about Buemi...

Yes, I wished there weren't too many ex-F1 drivers, because usually they aren't faster than the strong contenders in Endurance racing. An expection is of course Stéphane Sarrazin, who did a race in F1 and is doing well in rallies too.

I don't understand why the GT class only had a little coverage. Every year in Le Mans it is by far the most entertaining class and in my opinion GT cars are much more beautiful than prototypes.

[ioan]

Marketing, they have better marketing then WEC, ELMS, ALMS etc...
The same applies to F1, otherwise how can one justify the still quite high audience levels for the sub-par F1 races that we are getting since a few years?!

[ioan]

Perhaps because it's much easier to follow Le Mans because it's on so many different platforms?

One platform has them all, it's called internet! ;)
If someone can make it in here to post they could also follow any WEC race they wish, all of them are live on the WEC site!

[steveaki13]

I agree with what wedge is saying hear. I follow endurance racing, but hardly post hear, as this part of the forum is rubbish. Proof of this was the WEC Silverstone thread, I posted. It had Wedge, and one other person. 9 posts. Hardly a worth while discussion. I think that's what wedge was getting at, not a dig at you

OK, if that was the case I am sorry I jumped to conclusions.

I have never posted during GT/Endurance before as I never thought of it. I will look to now, as I enjoyed today. Most events I watch and comment later, mostly F1 because of time restrictions at weekends, but a few "in Race" threads on F1 i have done were Ok, but the class of posting here was alot better.

[zako85]

RIP Allan Simonsen.

Aston Martins had so much potential in the GT classes but they had so much back luck, it's unbelievable. I was rooting for the car 98 because of its GrandAm crew. Bill Auberlen and Paul Dalla Lana just won very close race in Grand Am series at Mid-Ohio just a week ago driving a BMW M3. As if Simonsen's fatal crash wasn't enough, the car 98 DNFed as did the class-leading number 99 Aston, which was driven by Bruno Senna, Bell, and Makowiecki, today in the morning. I hope Aston Martin returns stronger next year.

[call_me_andrew]

Let's hope they cut back on the ARMCOs and blue paint next year.

[NRiese]

Congrats to Tom Kristensen - I'm proud to be a dane! At the same time I hope Allan Simonsen is a better place now. Very tragic and sad. R.I.P Allan Simonsen.

[wedge]

Congrats to McNish, TK & Duval; not to mention Ant, Sarrizin & Buemi. Both cars were flawless.

Not a race to remember. Not just for the obvious but it led to some questionable SC periods.

ALMS/Lime Rock next week American Le Mans Northeast Grand Prix-Lime Rock Park | American Le Mans Series (http://www.alms.com/races/american-le-mans-northeast-grand-prix-5)

Old ALMS races: ALMS - American Le Mans Series racing on ESPN3, ESPN2, and ABC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/ALMSOfficialVideos/videos)

[joeyz_f1]

Good race. :up:

I only got two hours of sleep during the whole race. :laugh:

R.I.P. Allan Simonsen :(

[Corvettian]

One of these days, I'll be at home on Le Mans weekend. I know I can stay up all night, because I've done it for other things.
Unfortunately, when I'm on the ship I have to get some sleep, because I always work on a Sunday morning. That's when I'm on a ship that has a channel showing The Race, which is rare in itself.
Even worse, my company has blocked most of the live radio / TV websites, so I can't even listen to Radio Le Mans, for example. The last time I was able to do that on a ship was three years ago.
Never mind! Maybe I'll be at home for next year's race, watching the new :s kull: Corvette C7.R :s kull: wiping the floor with the rest of the GTE Pro class.