New to forum

[kolly69]

Hello. Am new to this site. My girlfriend is a huge Rally fan. I am trying to become more knowledgable about the sport and try and impress her :-)
Can I ask anyone who their favourite driver is and the rally event that is the mostlegendary?

[rjbetty]

Hi Kolly, aw that sounds real sweet. :)

Well there are definitely better people to advise you but I can stick my oar in for now.

I guess legendary/best events would be Finland (for it's speed) and Monte Carlo (my fave) as it's so historic and difficult (unpredictable levels of ice).

My favourite driver is Sebastien Loeb actually. I'm actually quite fond of Matthew Wilson (oh stop laughing), and also Daniel Sordo. Jari-Matti Latvala is very popular.

If you mention Gianluigi "Gigi" Galli, that might make your gf happy. :)

There are several other drivers from the recent past like Galli who were popular, like Colin Mcrae, Gilles Panizzi and Markko Martin!

Hope it goes well!

[D-Type]

In terms of legendary events don't forget the Alpine Trials, the Safari, and the Marathon de la Route (originally the Liege-Rome-Liege then later Liege-Sofia-Liege before it became 84 hours round the Nordschleife) none of which can be run today. Then there's the Dakar, which isn't really a rally.

kolly69, I don't know where you are located as you haven't filled in your profile. If you are in UK, let me have your address by PM and I can send you a history of rallying written in 1970 that I found in a charity shop. It will tell you of the history of rallies before they evolved into what we have today. And that historical knowledge will be something she doesn't know so It should imprss her.

[BlueShift]

I'm new as well! I like the idea that D-Type has, go with that!

[grisza]

I don't know where you are located as you haven't filled in your profile. If you are in UK, let me have your address by PM and I can send you a history of rallying written in 1970 that I found in a charity shop. It will tell you of the history of rallies before they evolved into what we have today. And that historical knowledge will be something she doesn't know so It should imprss her.
I'm sorry for stealing this thread but could you tell me please what book it is actually? BTW, could you recommend me some books about rallying from pre-WRC era? And maybe there are some good websites focused on history of rallying that I should check? I'd like to learn some information about famous rally events, cars and drivers from the 50's and 60's.

[FAL]

There is no better book on rallying in the late 1950s/early 60s than "Works Wonders" by Marcus Chambers (BMC Competitions Manager before Stuart Turner). There is an earlier version called "Seven Year Twitch".
Despite some of the driving being every bit as hard then as it is now, there is a rather "quaint" style to the narrative with such phrases as "we took lodgings at..." which belong in a much earlier era. Those of us who began to experience rallying in the late 60s will also not recognise the frequency with which managers seemed to sit down to gastronomic feasts during rallies... Do not be put off by that.
"A Mini and the Last Liege" by Mike Wood (available from Don Barrow's web site) is also a short booklet that will scare the trousers off modern drivers who go to bed every night on today's rallies. Sadly, there is no book on the nearest British equivalent of the Liege, the Gulf London International Rally....but I am involved in some ideas of writing one....

[D-Type]

I'm sorry for stealing this thread but could you tell me please what book it is actually? BTW, could you recommend me some books about rallying from pre-WRC era? And maybe there are some good websites focused on history of rallying that I should check? I'd like to learn some information about famous rally events, cars and drivers from the 50's and 60's.
The book I have is called The Rally-Go-Round by Richard Garrett published in 1970. As I don't really follow rallying the only books I have are this one and two histories of the Safari. I can't recall any other rallying books. Over the years various rally drivers and team managers have written autobiographies of varying quality. I'm afraid no titles or authors immediately come to mind.

[grisza]

Thank you FAL and D-Type for your replies. BTW, does anyone know if a French book by Jean-Paul Delsaux "Marathon de la route 1931-1971: Liège-Rome-Liège, Liège-Sofia-Liège" has an English edition maybe? Or if there is any book in English about that rally?

[FAL]

Not much in English specifically on the Liege but covered in the two books I mentioned above plus books like Bill Price's "BMC Competitions Department" and "Paddy Hopkirk", Brian Moylan's "Works Rally Mechanic", Stuart Turner's "Twice Lucky" and "Harnessing Horsepower"(the last is his Pat Moss Bio).

[grisza]

Thank you FAL for your reply and information on these books. And yet another question, this time about books with focus on rally cars from the 50's and 60's (maybe early 70's too). Is there some kind of almanach/compedium with detailed data and pictures of these classic cars?

[FAL]

There is a book titled something like "The A to Z of Works Rally Cars" by Graham Robson. It covers every car from that period that ever appeared as a "works" entry but it's probably out of print now.
I make no secret of my reservations regarding the total accuracy of some of Robson's work (as I do with all over-prolific authors), having revealed some errors on places similar to this - for which he now seems to be conducting a personal vendetta against me!

[grisza]

Thanks again FAL. But it's only one book - are there any others maybe? Or rallying is even more underrated than I thought?

[D-Type]

I've just remembered that Veloce have published a concise history of the Alpine Trials & Rallies in their "Those were the days" series.

[FAL]

I was listing books that cover all rally cars. Most cover just one model.

I'm sure re-printed copies of Peter Browning's "The Works Minis" are still available.
His book "The Works Healeys" isn't (if you find a new copy let me know!).
There is also Brian Moylan's "Anatomy of the Works Minis" to go with his "Works Rally Mechanic".
Co-incidently, I have just ordered one of the final copies available of "The Works Tigers" by Graham Rood.
Graham Robson has corrected most of the errors and misleading data (re-shelling) in the original "The Works Escorts" with a new book last year "The Works Escorts in Detail".
Robson's "Rally Giants" series includes "Mini Cooper", "Austin Healey 100/3000" and "Saab 96" from the earlier era, as well as "Mk1 Escort", "Mk2 Escort", "Fiat 131 Abarth" and "Lancia Stratos" from later. I refuse to recognise the even later books on 4wd rubbish...
His "The Works Triumphs" is no longer available but "Rootes Maestros" (Rootes Group/Chrysler works rally teams) and "Boreham" (Ford works rally team) are.
Bill Price's "The BMC Competitions Department" has already been mentioned. "The Secrets of the BMC Competitions Department" (Chambers, Turner and Browning) is an interesting collection of documents.
If you want books on rallies themselves, the last few copies of "The Welsh Rally" by Martin Leonard and Mark Griffin may be still around. A brilliant work that shows why some rallies were so loved by all involved.
Tony Gardiner, via Veloce Publishing, wrote an excellent book "RAC Rally Action". (all other RAC rally books are shallow efforts by motoring journalists). Martin and Mark are considering an RAC Rally book (which I would help with).
Peter Robinson's "Memory Lanes" and "Memory Lanes Revisited" cover the top "road" rallies of the Motoring News Championship in Britain 1970-73 and he is now working on 1961-68. Eddie Green's "Nineteen to the Dozen" covers 1969. Dave Orrick's "Night Moves" covers 1987. Both the latter are Very expensive to buy second hand now. Mick Briant has just published his book on 74-86.
Stuart Turner's "Twice Lucky" (still available, discounted) covers club road rally navigating in 50s/60s up to managing BMC and Ford rally efforts.

[FAL]

D-Type has mentioned one of the few books in English on foreign rallies, Martin Pfunder's "Apine Trials". There was more than one Alpine Rally. The Austrian Alpine was one but the best known, one of the great classic rallies of all time, was the French Alpine Rally (originally known as the "Rallye des Alpes" and later the "Coupe des Alpes"). It invariably had a strong British entry. Look for a 3 part YouTube posting of the 1958 Shell film "Coupe des Alpes" (but make allowance for 1958 music...). There are books in French and Bernard Simon (of Forum Auto) is I think working on a definitively detailed book.
Maurice Louche's book in French is the "bible" on the Monte Carlo Rally.
There are books on the Swedish Rally (in Swedish) and the Rally of the 1000 Lakes (in Finnish).
D-Type is probably more the Safari rally expert but the best known book is merely photos (however stunning).
I'm sure there is a book on the Acropolis Rally in Greek, but I wouldn't be able to read a word it (whereas I can a few words of Swedish and Finnish!).

[BDunnell]

Thank you, FAL. Even for those of us who are enthusiasts of some years' standing, this is most useful.

[grisza]

I was listing books that cover all rally cars. Most cover just one model.

I'm sorry for being not clear enough. I thought exactly about that kind of book (that covers many different cars from given years) and was a bit surprised that you mentioned only one title. As I have no knowledge on this subject I thought it would be good to learn some basic data about cars from a book that you could call an encyclopedia or almanach.

I found a French book 'Histoire des Rallyes 1951-1968' by Michel Morelli but again it looks like it's not available in English.


BTW, many thanks for all other books you mentioned already in this topic. I'm sure it will be a great source of information for people new to rallying like myself.

[D-Type]

I had a look at Amazon.co.uk. They list 165 books under 'Rallying', admittedly some are wongly listed so maybe 140-150. Subjects include Rallycourse, individual rallies, car studies, biographies and autobiographies. About half of them are available secondhand for under £10 so it won't break the bank to build up a small library. And at those prices you can afford a couple of 'wrong uns'

[grisza]

Yeah, I guess you're right D-Type. I'll have to browse one day all these books available on amazon and maybe I'll find some interesting stuff.

But meanwhile I just watched that 'Coupe des Alpes' film on YT (many thanks for this FAL) and can say only one thing... amazing! Absolutely fantastic footage from this classic rally - a must see for any motor sport fan (past or present doesn't matter).