Harshest Sackings

[rjbetty]

The recent departing of Timo Glock, though not a sacking has made me think of some of the harshest or most unfair dismissals I've known or heard of. Here are some I can think of. Please feel free to add some good ones to mine - they can include all of motorsport!

MARTIN BRUNDLE - BENETTON, 1992
Retired from first 4 races, but recovered to score almost 40pts - just 18 off 2nd in WDC! Scored several podiums and outraced Schumacher on more than a few occasions. Never outqualified him though. Was dropped for Patrese who wasn't really any quicker in 1993 and scored only 20pts.

PEDRO DE LA ROSA - ARROWS, 2001
Pedro had been a revelation in the fast 2000 Arrows with the best ever livery ;) challenging for several podiums. He was given a contract to stay at Arrows when he had offers from team like BAR. Only for the team to go back on it before the start of 2001, leaving Pedro out in the cold as the other seats were now filled.

HEIKKI KOVALAINEN - CATERHAM, 2013
Carried the Caterham team for 3 years, only to be basically told that HE should have been more grateful by Mike Gascoyne.

JARNO TRULLI - RENAULT, 2004
Okay I'm not holding back on this one - here goes: Jarno had been basically outperforming Fernando Alonso in 2004 against expectations. This came to a head in Monaco when Trulli won while Alonso crashed. All Flavio could hiss was "This changes nothing"! Trulli was 16pts ahead in the WDC as well as the quicker qualifier. The problem was that Alonso, like in 2007, wasn't too happy being beaten. Therefore, neither was his manager Flav. From that point on, Trulli's season mysteriously fell apart and he was ousted after Monza. Conversely, Alonso's performances perked up.

[BDunnell]

The ones where a driver was dropped in favour of someone for, in effect, money reasons — like Kovalainen — I'm not sure count. The Brundle and Trulli examples I agree with fully. The harshest I can think of is Jackie Oliver being fired by Colin Chapman after crashing, unavoidably, in the tunnel at the 1968 Monaco GP. The decision was reversed and Oliver went on to nearly win the British GP.

[rjbetty]

I'm considering Frentzen, Jordan 2001, since he was replaced by worse drivers, but he was quite poor against Trulli.
Maybe Villeneuve at BAR, but F1 rejects have a good article called "Who Barred Jacques?"
Irvine at Jaguar - he had improved every season and was set to make gains in 2003, but his horrible attitude cost him.

I think maybe Salo, Arrows 1999, same as de la Rosa, but both those Arrows drivers were better than Mika.

Sebastien Bourdais maybe, but again he had a bad attitude an kinda deserved it, though I hear Helmut Marko made his life miserable - in which case I can totally understand.



Please don't anyone suggest Vitantonio Liuzzi in the Force India!!

And definitely not Piquet Jr unless you're trolling. :)

[Mark]

DAMON HILL, WILLIAMS 1996
Leading the championship by a large margin and on his way to victory. He was sacked 3/4 of the way through the season which left him with little option but to drive for Arrows the following year. Rather unusual in the least to fire the driver who is leading the WDC and went on to win it. Of course his replacement Heinz Harald Frentzen proved to be quite average.

[FAL]

TIMO MAKINEN AND RAUNO AALTONEN BMC/BLMC 1968
Effectively, by Donald Stokes
....but then what's the point in having the best two in the world if you no longer have a competitive car for them....

[rjbetty]

DAMON HILL, WILLIAMS 1996
Leading the championship by a large margin and on his way to victory. He was sacked 3/4 of the way through the season which left him with little option but to drive for Arrows the following year. Rather unusual in the least to fire the driver who is leading the WDC and went on to win it. Of course his replacement Heinz Harald Frentzen proved to be quite average.

I kind of agree, but Williams felt that Frentzen had more natural talent. I think that was likely true, but HHF never managed to access much of it as he struggled at harsh Williams, and with his team-mate's mind games. I hear Damon turned own a Jordan drive for '97 though as Arrows offered more money...? I think that was a tough decision, as with the confidence of being champ, he my well have taken te '97 crown too.

WRC Nomiations
FREDDY LOIX, PEUGEOT 2004
Maybe this was fair, but I always felt it was a bit tough on Freddy to get sacked after just 2 rounds.

GILLES PANIZZI, MITSUBISHI 2005
A podium followed by a good 8th in Mexico (first gravel rally since Finland 2004 and only 3rd of any kind since) boded for a good season or Panizzi, but he was quietly and unofficially dropped in effect. The real villian of the piece was Max Mosley who seemed to make it his prsnl mission to rid the WRC of as many star drivers as pssible.

COLIN MCRAE, CITROEN 2003
A poor season by Colin's own admission, but new FIA rules forced Citroen's hand and a decision that then team boss Guy Frequelin called the touhest of his career.

P.S. my keyboard is extremely bad and missn letters out al thtime, though I am pressing hem hard enough! Please excuse te gaps - I'm so tired of keepingoing bac and correcting. To think 'm typing letters/CVs to emplyers at the mo!

[Don Capps]

Innes Ireland immediately came to my mind....

[BDunnell]

Innes Ireland immediately came to my mind....

Oh yes, definitely. A pretty shoddy tale.

[Mark]

I kind of agree, but Williams felt that Frentzen had more natural talent. I think that was likely true, but HHF never managed to access much of it as he struggled at harsh Williams, and with his team-mate's mind games. I hear Damon turned own a Jordan drive for '97 though as Arrows offered more money...? I think that was a tough decision, as with the confidence of being champ, he my well have taken te '97 crown too.


It may be that Frentzen did look like a better bet for the team. It's the fact that they fired the current championship leader and saw the world champion leaving the team. It's just very bad form IMO and to this day I can never bring myself to support Williams.

Who knows if he would have been champ in 1997, maybe, maybe he would have been bested by JV, but he should have been given the chance at least.

[wedge]

First that springs to mind is Prost saying as a matter of fact that his Ferrari was a truck at the 1991 Australian GP.

Gilles once called his Ferrari a Cadillac which I imagine was in jest and was never sacked.


MARTIN BRUNDLE - BENETTON, 1992
Retired from first 4 races, but recovered to score almost 40pts - just 18 off 2nd in WDC! Scored several podiums and outraced Schumacher on more than a few occasions. Never outqualified him though. Was dropped for Patrese who wasn't really any quicker in 1993 and scored only 20pts.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing Patrese was a race winner and solid #2. His motivation dropped massively in 1993. Also, the rivalry between Schumi and Brundle got out of hand at times.


PEDRO DE LA ROSA - ARROWS, 2001
Pedro had been a revelation in the fast 2000 Arrows with the best ever livery ;) challenging for several podiums. He was given a contract to stay at Arrows when he had offers from team like BAR. Only for the team to go back on it before the start of 2001, leaving Pedro out in the cold as the other seats were now filled.

Very harsh but business as usual for Tom Walkinshaw. He did it time and again. He did the same to Mika Salo '98/99 season.


JARNO TRULLI - RENAULT, 2004
Okay I'm not holding back on this one - here goes: Jarno had been basically outperforming Fernando Alonso in 2004 against expectations. This came to a head in Monaco when Trulli won while Alonso crashed. All Flavio could hiss was "This changes nothing"! Trulli was 16pts ahead in the WDC as well as the quicker qualifier. The problem was that Alonso, like in 2007, wasn't too happy being beaten. Therefore, neither was his manager Flav. From that point on, Trulli's season mysteriously fell apart and he was ousted after Monza. Conversely, Alonso's performances perked up.

2004 French GP - Trulli lost P3 to Barrichello on the last lap and Flavio was visually disgusted. It went downhill for Trulli.


DAMON HILL, WILLIAMS 1996
Leading the championship by a large margin and on his way to victory. He was sacked 3/4 of the way through the season which left him with little option but to drive for Arrows the following year. Rather unusual in the least to fire the driver who is leading the WDC and went on to win it. Of course his replacement Heinz Harald Frentzen proved to be quite average.

They signed HHF on pre-contract in 1995 when Hill should have won the WDC. Hill wanted to be better paid and when a driver asks for more money FW always falls back on the prima donna excuse.

[rjbetty]

What's the story on Innes Ireland?

Oh yeah Prost is a very good one!

Here's a few recent ones I'd forgotten all about:

NICK HEIDFELD, RENAULT 2011
Made a scapegoat. Heidfeld's qualifying was extremely disappointing it had to be said, but his race performances were quite good. While I agree with Eric Bouiller that Heidfeld's driving and attitude were sadly not up to the level hoped for, Bouiller only seemed to make things worse by his treatment of Nick. The move to replace him with Bruno Senna almost cost the team 5th in the WCC.

JAIME ALGUERSUARI, TORO ROSSO 2011
This one is even worse, and I'd probably include Sebastien Buemi as a footnote here too. Jaime claimed to have been offered a drive elsewhere but wanted to stay with Toro Rosso (but then surely if that were really true, he'd have taken it?). He was told he would be staying on for 2012, only for Dr Marko to change his mind after the season had ended and seats elsewhere had been filled. In hindsight, Toro Rosso would surely have been much better off retaining Jaime to benefit from his experience and continuity and to be a known quantity for Ricciardo to be measured against. Vergne proved that he might have been better served continuing in a junior formula for at least 1 more year.

CHRISTIAN KLIEN, RED BULL 2006
Another one involving Dr Marko. David Coulthard spoke out against this one as even he felt Christian wasn't really given a fair chance/enough time. Having been running ahead of DC in Monaco until late on (he finished 3rd remember), Christian was really only a couple of tenths of Coulthard's level which wasn't bad. But then again Kimi had established himself ahead of a younger DC by that stage of his career. Even so, it seemed a bit harsh indeed to not even let Christian see out the season, especially when his replacement was only Robert Doornbos.

HEIKKI KOVALAINEN, RENAULT 2007
Now this is one I would like to hear more about as I fail to understand how this went. I don't really see how Kovalainen had a disappointing season considering he beat his experienced team-mate pretty convincingly in only his 1st season. I know he struggled at the start, but surely that can be forgiven since Renault had produced a very horrible car, which was reasonably unexpected to be that bad. Though his season was certainly overshadowed by Lewis Hamilton's, I can only reason that Heikki must have been shown the door because Flav and Alonso felt that competition from him would be too much to bear after 2007. 'Fernie' wanted it easy with Piquet while he tended to his wounds...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

HEIKKI KOVALAINEN - CATERHAM, 2013
Carried the Caterham team for 3 years, only to be basically told that HE should have been more grateful by Mike Gascoyne.
I totally disagree on this one. Kovalainen is not particularly fast, but I think he has earned a reputation as a nice guy, and that has been enough to overcome the shortcomings in his racecraft until now. When he was at Renault, he never looked particularly comfortable, but then he was only brought in at the last minute because Flavio Briatore needed to replace Alonso, and Briatore bet the farm on him. There was far too much pressure and expectation on him. He only landed the McLaren seat because Alonso left McLaren at the last minute, so the team were forced to pick the best of a bad bunch. He was really out of his depth there. And when he got to Caterham, he only beat Trulli in one of the two seasons they had together; Trulli came out on top in the other. Finally, when he was teamed up with Vitaly Petrov, Petrov was by far and away the stronger driver than Kovalainen by the end of 2012.

Kovalainen was asked to find sponsors by the team to keep his drive in 2013. He declined. I can understand his apprehension, because once he gets sponsors, he's always going to need them to stay in the sport. And on a certain level, it's an admission that you're not the greatest driver on the grid - especially when you have already been in the sport for six years. But looking at his results, I don't think Kovalainen really deserves a seat based on merit alone. He'd need to find some sponsors to make up the difference. He wouldn't need as much sponsorship as, say Bruno Senna (who has no business being in Formula 1), but he would need some. Since he refused, can anyont blame the team for dropping him?


NICK HEIDFELD, RENAULT 2011
Made a scapegoat. Heidfeld's qualifying was extremely disappointing it had to be said, but his race performances were quite good. While I agree with Eric Bouiller that Heidfeld's driving and attitude were sadly not up to the level hoped for, Bouiller only seemed to make things worse by his treatment of Nick. The move to replace him with Bruno Senna almost cost the team 5th in the WCC.
At the time, the team was in serious need of sponsors. Gerard Lopez had borrowed heavily from Bank SNORAS to fund his acquistion of the team, and the loans were coming due. With the Malaysian government refusing to make funds available if they were just going to be used to pay off a bank loan, the team needed to find someone with sponsors to keep themselves afloat until that money from Malaysia would become available. With vitaly Petrov bringing millions of dollars in sponsorship to the team, Renault could not drop him, and so Heidfeld got the axe.

It's worth mentioning that Lopez borrowed money from SNORAS - one of the two banks controlled by Vladimir Antonov. Anotnov held the promoter's rights to the World Rally Championship through Convers Sports Initiative, and it was his arrest for charges of fraud that set the dominos falling and threw the entire WRC into disarray at the start of last year.


HEIKKI KOVALAINEN, RENAULT 2007
Now this is one I would like to hear more about as I fail to understand how this went. I don't really see how Kovalainen had a disappointing season considering he beat his experienced team-mate pretty convincingly in only his 1st season. I know he struggled at the start, but surely that can be forgiven since Renault had produced a very horrible car, which was reasonably unexpected to be that bad. Though his season was certainly overshadowed by Lewis Hamilton's, I can only reason that Heikki must have been shown the door because Flav and Alonso felt that competition from him would be too much to bear after 2007. 'Fernie' wanted it easy with Piquet while he tended to his wounds...
Kovalainen's problem in 2007 was that Renault was structured around Fernando Alonso. Flavio Briatore only ran a second car because he had to; given the choice, he would only submit one entry. Under his rule, all resources were directed to Alonso from the outset, and in order to get a share of the pie, the second driver had to slog it out and start getting some results on his own. We saw it in particular with Nelson Piquet Jnr.; he was hopeless, but he might have been less hopeless if the team had actually supported him.

But then Briatore lost Alonso to McLaren, and he needed a new star driver. With Hamilton being scooped up by McLaren, Briatore was desperate to find someone who could carry the team. Kovalainen's results in the feeder series suggested that he would be strong enough, but Briatore threw him in the deep end, expecting him to pick up where Alonso left off. And when he didn't deliver, he got sacked.

[wedge]

rjbetty, Tom Walkinshaw's reign at Arrows wasn't pretty: F1 Rejects - Risky Business: The TWR Arrows Years 1996-2002 (http://www.f1rejects.com/centrale/arrows/index.html)


Kovalainen's problem in 2007 was that Renault was structured around Fernando Alonso. Flavio Briatore only ran a second car because he had to; given the choice, he would only submit one entry. Under his rule, all resources were directed to Alonso from the outset, and in order to get a share of the pie, the second driver had to slog it out and start getting some results on his own. We saw it in particular with Nelson Piquet Jnr.; he was hopeless, but he might have been less hopeless if the team had actually supported him.

But then Briatore lost Alonso to McLaren, and he needed a new star driver. With Hamilton being scooped up by McLaren, Briatore was desperate to find someone who could carry the team. Kovalainen's results in the feeder series suggested that he would be strong enough, but Briatore threw him in the deep end, expecting him to pick up where Alonso left off. And when he didn't deliver, he got sacked.

The obvious answer is that it was a straight swap after Alonso's scandal ridden time at Mclaren. Both Heikki & Alonso were managed by Briatore.

[IceWizard]

DAMON HILL, WILLIAMS 1996
Leading the championship by a large margin and on his way to victory. He was sacked 3/4 of the way through the season which left him with little option but to drive for Arrows the following year. Rather unusual in the least to fire the driver who is leading the WDC and went on to win it. Of course his replacement Heinz Harald Frentzen proved to be quite average.
I have seen it rumoured that the decision was actually made during the 1995 season. If so, then it doesn't seem nearly as harsh given the way Hill struggled for a large part of '95.

[Mark]

Yes that's the conventional story. But the fact is that Hill did very well in 1996. And despite what happened in 1995 he deserved to defend his championship.

[D-Type]

Could it be that Frank Williams finally decided that it maybe wasn't a good idea to have two No 1 drivers as they wasted so many opportunities competing against each other (Jones/Reutemann, Mansell/Piquet) and the team would do better with a clear cut No 1 and No 2. Villeneuve was proving as quick as Hill. He was 11 years younger. And he wanted less money!

[wedge]

HHF was signed on a pre-contract so whatever clauses there were DH was re-negotiating in the summer after Autosport famously broke the story at 1996 German GP.

In the end it came down to money because Hill was on contracted similarly as a number two driver as he was number two to Prost and Senna.

[BDunnell]

What's the story on Innes Ireland?

He was simply dumped by Colin Chapman at the end of 1961, despite taking Team Lotus' first ever GP victory at the US GP. Various theories as to why have been put forward; maybe Don Capps could return and offer the explanation he considers most likely.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

The obvious answer is that it was a straight swap after Alonso's scandal ridden time at Mclaren. Both Heikki & Alonso were managed by Briatore.
As far as I'm aware, Briatore never even offered Kovalainen a second season at Renault. As soon as it became apparent that the relationship between Alonso and McLaren was breaking down and that Alonso might leave the team, Briatore ignored Kovalainen and started coaxing Alonso back. In the end, Kovalainen got the McLaren drive, but I doubt Briatore would have given it a second thought if he was simply forced out of the sport. That was always Briatore's problem - he seemed to think that just as big a star (if not bigger than) as his drivers, as if people watched Formula 1 for the overweight Italian team principals cursed with a fashion sense that even Liberace wouldn't touch.

[D28]

He was simply dumped by Colin Chapman at the end of 1961, despite taking Team Lotus' first ever GP victory at the US GP. Various theories as to why have been put forward; maybe Don Capps could return and offer the explanation he considers most likely.
Right. I was shocked on looking up the 61 results that Ireland also outpointed Clark 12 to 11, had forgotten that.
Chapman can hardly be faulted for hitching Team Lotus to Clark's obvious talent, but he was less than straightforward in letting Ireland know.
One reason sometimes given is that Chapman simply objected to portions of Ireland's personality, but no doubt other factors were involved. With Clark and Trevor Taylor, Lotus obviously had a no 1 and backup combination, also cheaper than a Clark, Ireland duo.

[wedge]

Yes, I agree and Flav - like Tom Walkinshaw - had a way with man management that treating drivers like a piece of turd was part of the business.

Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content.

I can only imagine Helmut Marko has a similar relationship with Webber and if you're not the next Vettel then harsh sackings are the norm at RBR.

Sport, in general, and particularly at elite level, is a cold and cruel business.

[BDunnell]

Yes, I agree and Flav - like Tom Walkinshaw - had a way with man management that treating drivers like a piece of turd was part of the business.

Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content.

I can only imagine Helmut Marko has a similar relationship with Webber and if you're not the next Vettel then harsh sackings are the norm at RBR.

Sport, in general, and particularly at elite level, is a cold and cruel business.

Unnecessarily so, one might say. It seems to run completely counter to all generally accepted means of getting the best from people. In the cases of both Briatore and Walkinshaw — the latter of whom could surely be defined as a psychopath — it only got them so far. Marko is perhaps harder in this context to define, given that he's effectively someone else's employee. Fortunately for Webber, said employer is much better-disposed towards him than is Marko.

[wedge]

Unnecessarily so, one might say. It seems to run completely counter to all generally accepted means of getting the best from people.

Happens a lot in football. If the manager doesn't like you or not part of his plans then you're ignored then mouth off to the media that the manager was disrespectful after you find a new club.

[D28]

Doug Nye, writing in Cooper Cars, states that John Cooper and Phil Hill simply couldn't get on well. At the 64 Austrian GP Hill wrecked his car in practice, then had another shunt with the backup car which was destroyed by fire. In the ensuing blowup, John blamed Hill for both accidents and effectively sacked him. John Love was brought in for Monza, but failed to qualify. Hill set down from the race he had won 2 of the previous 4 years. Ironically, Bruce McLaren finished 2nd in the Italian GP, a rare highlight for Cooper in the 1 1/2 litre years. Writing at the time, McLaren put it down to personality differences and showed his faith in Hill's abilities by hiring him for his Tasman team. Hill was back in the car for the 2 NA races, retiring from both and from his F1 career. Rather a sour note for a World Champion to end on.

[D-Type]

Nye also says that in 1965 Rindt's regular mechanic secured the throttle cable with tape, and as the engine heated up the tape softened, the cable moved and Rindt lost power. He suggests strongly that the same thing may have happened with Hill the previous year.

[D28]

Nye also says that in 1965 Rindt's regular mechanic secured the throttle cable with tape, and as the engine heated up the tape softened, the cable moved and Rindt lost power. He suggests strongly that the same thing may have happened with Hill the previous year.
Exactly. Impossible to prove now. Odd to explain how this freelance "improvement" by the mechanic could go so long undetected. I guess Coopers was not as tight a run ship as when they were winning at will.

[rjbetty]

...Johnny Herbert has nothing but contempt for FB. After winning the 1995 Italian GP FB couldn't even congratulate JH but gave him a look of content...

Wedge, that is really interesting as I never knew that. Is there anyone out there who ever noticed Flav's reaction and demeanour when Fisi won on his first race for Renault at Melbourne 2005? The way I remember it, Louise goodman was walking with Flav interviewing him after the race, and Flav's whole demeanour was like "I can't believe this has happened!" as though something has gone terribly wrong. Louise seemed really surprised that Flav seemed to be falling apart, asking Flav "But... isn't that a good thing... that your driver has won?" to which Flav couldn't find anything to say, but sorta shrugged and let out a sort of high pitched "hmph!" as though he was about to have a nervous breakdown because his world has fallen apart.

Flav really looked like he would need a valium and be spending the night in the pub drowning his deep sorrow (that the wrong driver won)


Also, before that race, rainy quali meant Alonso started 13th. Martin Brundle interviewed him on the grid asking what kind of result was he going for, suggesting to Alonso 3rd place might be really good. Alonso basically said that would be really good, but he wasn't expecting to be that high. So when he did achieve that 3rd place, you'd have expected him to be happy. But the whole time he was on that podium, his face was like thunder! Incredibly intense... and indignant! I put it to him that the obvious reason for this intense offense and displeasure was that his team-mate was standing to his right, in 1st place. THAT WASN'T PART OF THE PLAN!

Before that season, pundits were split about 50/50 on who would come out on top between Fisi and Alonso. F1 Racing even ran a cover on it, showing the two locked in an arm-wrestle.

I personally believe that though Fisi isn't up with the likes of Hamilton, that he was actually capable of being a lot better than he was in a top team, and that Flav and Alonso actually understood there was every chance Fisi could indeed have risen up and subdued Alonso - especially since Trulli had done just that in 2004. Now with Fisi winning, who knows what that would do to his confidence? Hence the terrible expression on Alonso and Flav's faces.

Fisi's season fell apart in a scarcely possible to believe way. It's incredibly obvious to anyone apart from smarmy critics like Nigel Roebuck, Alan Henry etc that Fisi's car was given inferior parts etc. There's a time when it's stretching it too much to keep saying it's a coincidence. Canada sealed that for me.

[Rollo]

JEAN TODT, Peugeot Talbot Sport, 1993

You'd think that after he'd led the team to win the WRC, and the Paris-Dakar four times in succession and the Le Mans 24 Hour Race with a 1-2-3, that Pug would have let him move into F1 with that same team but no.
Peugeot went on to shoot their F1 plans in the head by first being an engine supplier for McLaren, then Jordan and finally Prost.

It's a tale of what might have been, for Todt went on to do impressive things for Ferrari whilst Peugeot sort of dribbled out.

[wedge]

SCHUMI, FERRARI, 2006 ITALIAN GP

Schumi never got to formally announce his retirement in his own way. Instead Ferrari signed Kimi which was an open secret and became official via press release as the chequered flag fell and forcing Shumi to announce his retirement after the race.

Kinda sad really. Despite his ruthlessness on the racetrack he was never in full control of his destiny and was treated like a piece of meat on a conveyor belt like any other driver.


Wedge, that is really interesting as I never knew that.

He has been open about his dislike of Flavio.

Mid 1995, Herbert famously called Schumi "Mr Mega" because he wasn't allowed to view Schumi's telemetry whereas Schumi could look at Herbert's. Behind the scenes Herbert took it up to Flav and Flav pretty much told him to STFU.

Funnily enough Herbert wouldn't have an F1 career if it wasn't for Peter Collins who worked at Benetton as team manager.

[AndyRAC]

Walter Rohrl - Lombard RAC Rally 1982.

He'd already claimed the Title (the last 2WD drivers Title), and was known to be not a fan of 'blind' events, as the RAC was in those days. Rothmans Opel Team Manager Tony Fall wasn't impressed with this attitude, and so sacked him! Now I can't remember if he had already signed with Lancia for 1983, but that is were he drove that year.

[BDunnell]

Walter Rohrl - Lombard RAC Rally 1982.

He'd already claimed the Title (the last 2WD drivers Title), and was known to be not a fan of 'blind' events, as the RAC was in those days. Rothmans Opel Team Manager Tony Fall wasn't impressed with this attitude, and so sacked him! Now I can't remember if he had already signed with Lancia for 1983, but that is were he drove that year.

A Rothmans publicity event was taking place just before that event, highlighting how the Rothmans Opel team had won the World, European and British titles in 1982. Röhrl elected not to attend, not wishing to do any more than he had to in order to promote cigarettes. This certainly didn't help the situation.

[FAL]

Fall shooting himself in the foot by confronting Rohrl at his breakfast table the morning after the Rothmans party. Jochi Kleint (coincidently the subject of a current thread on here), whom Fall flew in to drive Rohrl's car, was never likely to do as well. Caused me a smile when we passed the rear end of it sticking out of the trees on one stage.
Rohrl hated the RAC irrationally, since he was actually quite good at it. He just seemed to psyche himself out of liking it because he knew he was the acknowledged best on heavily practised tarmac. This got to the point when his complaining in 85 went largely ignored because of his bias and it was Timo Salonen who gets the blame for getting the RAC changed to "9 to 5 rallying" for 86.

[BDunnell]

Rohrl hated the RAC irrationally, since he was actually quite good at it. He just seemed to psyche himself out of liking it because he knew he was the acknowledged best on heavily practised tarmac.

His win on the 1984 Ulster International in the Sport Quattro showed he wasn't too bad on not-so-heavily-practiced tarmac, too.


This got to the point when his complaining in 85 went largely ignored because of his bias and it was Timo Salonen who gets the blame for getting the RAC changed to "9 to 5 rallying" for 86.

Apropos of nothing, didn't Röhrl blame Phil Short for his crash on the 1985 RAC?

[FAL]

I can't recall what was said at the time but I'm sure Short was brought in to partner Rohrl because he was good "on the maps" and any information would help Rohrl more than most other drivers. Rohrl then probably placed too much confidence in his map reading. Short had "coached" Pons on the maps during one previous RAC to help Mouton at a critical point.

Perhaps we should explain, for those not so familiar with the days of the "secret" unpractised RAC rally stages, that they could be read off 1:25000 scale maps but this was (is still on the R.A.C. retro event) something of a "black art" as there were inaccuracies that meant some of the detail was more "advice" than the equivalent of pace notes.

[BDunnell]

I can't recall what was said at the time but I'm sure Short was brought in to partner Rohrl because he was good "on the maps" and any information would help Rohrl more than most other drivers. Rohrl then probably placed too much confidence in his map reading.

Röhrl's first RAC since the year he drove the 131 with Geistdorfer sitting in the back, wasn't it?

[FAL]

That was 78 and he was also entered in a 131 in 79 and 80 (with conventional seating!)but I can't recall seeing him so maybe he didn't start. Not entered in 81.

[rjbetty]

(Don't let me break the conversation above by interjecting with more)

JAMES THOMPSON, West Surrey Racing Honda, 2000 (BTCC)
I don't know the ins and outs but I know that James really went through the grinder with WSR boss Dick Bennetts. Thommo was sacked, but he since went on to show what a class act he is. Looks like Dick Bennetts made a big mistake - I think Thompson was better off without WSR.

[BDunnell]

JAMES THOMPSON, West Surrey Racing Honda, 2000 (BTCC)
I don't know the ins and outs but I know that James really went through the grinder with WSR boss Dick Bennetts. Thommo was sacked, but he since went on to show what a class act he is.

Hadn't heard this one before. Was it a sacking, or just the end of the WSR Honda programme? I seem to recall Anthony Reid and Warren Hughes being confirmed very early for the WSR MG programme that followed, and would assume — given their parallel sportscar effort — that these were MG appointments rather than WSR ones.


Looks like Dick Bennetts made a big mistake - I think Thompson was better off without WSR.

In his Vauxhall years, I agree, but thereafter I'd argue Thompson would have achieved more success with WSR than he has done elsewhere.

[BDunnell]

That was 78 and he was also entered in a 131 in 79 and 80 (with conventional seating!)but I can't recall seeing him so maybe he didn't start. Not entered in 81.

Ah, yes — he definitely competed in 1979, finishing eighth, but there were no works Fiats on the 1980 RAC.

[FAL]

He was on the original 1980 RAC entry list at No.2 in a works 131 but I certainly don't recall him at the first passage control so agree DNS.

[rjbetty]

Hadn't heard this one before. Was it a sacking, or just the end of the WSR Honda programme? I seem to recall Anthony Reid and Warren Hughes being confirmed very early for the WSR MG programme that followed, and would assume — given their parallel sportscar effort — that these were MG appointments rather than WSR ones.

In his Vauxhall years, I agree, but thereafter I'd argue Thompson would have achieved more success with WSR than he has done elsewhere.

Oh dear, my apologies, I might actually have got this wrong and need to check my facts... (man I'm on bad form lately what with talking about Bruno Senna at Force India as though it was confirmed when in fact Bruno is now out of F1...) But I'm certain I read quite a bit on this in Autosport. Whatever, the situation between Thompson and Bennetts looked pretty nasty indeed.

[zako85]

I think Heidfeld's mid-season sacking from Lotus/Renault in 2011 was pretty harsh. The team effectively threw its pilots under a bus for its own sins. Later it became known that car hasn't been updated for much of season because the original design was too complex.

[Fortitude]

It may be that Frentzen did look like a better bet for the team. It's the fact that they fired the current championship leader and saw the world champion leaving the team. It's just very bad form IMO and to this day I can never bring myself to support Williams.

Who knows if he would have been champ in 1997, maybe, maybe he would have been bested by JV, but he should have been given the chance at least.

I know how you feel. It was a raw deal for Damon...