Rally Discussion and Bar Talk Thread

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/03/07/stage-repeats-vs-single-runs/

Why are single-run WRC stages so rare these days? Do second passes of a stage cause smaller time differences or less crashes? Let's look at this question from different angles and statistics.

[the sniper]

Another factor in (admittedly usually depressingly unique) UK rallying is that forestry owners have charged less for a second run of a stage than the first, so a stage run twice is considerably cheaper than two separate stages ran once. Though to me, often the most significant damage to a track seems to be done by having a second pass...

[Gregor-y]

It's easier to keep the stage crew, emergency staff, timing equipment and cameras from having to rush around. And it's a bit easier to wrangle the spectators, too.

I kind of miss the panic of tearing down a stage and moving the crew to another location thirty minutes away - triple that for collecting everyone then stringing out marshals on the new stage - but that's because my normal work is much more relaxed.

[Rallyper]

It's easier to keep the stage crew, emergency staff, timing equipment and cameras from having to rush around. And it's a bit easier to wrangle the spectators, too.

I kind of miss the panic of tearing down a stage and moving the crew to another location thirty minutes away - triple that for collecting everyone then stringing out marshals on the new stage - but that's because my normal work is much more relaxed.

Well, in the 80´s they had over 50 stages in Rally Finland. Don´t know how many ran twice, but it wasn´t that many...

[AnttiL]

Well, in the 80´s they had over 50 stages in Rally Finland. Don´t know how many ran twice, but it wasn´t that many...

For example in 1985 there were 50 stages with three of them repeats.

But it's not the 80's anymore. The stages were in a very large geographic area so there were enough motor clubs and other volunteers to arrange them. The stages were generally very short, and the authorities didn't demand as much people working on the stages as today. And finally, people don't volunteer as easily today...

[fiscorpun]

ProDrive will exit Extreme-E to focus on W2RC and future projects
PLEASE BE WRC PLEASE BE WRC PLEASE BE WRC PLEASE BE WRC

[Rallyper]

Anyone here know where did our very good friend on this forum, Jan VanVurpa, go? Is he still alive and kickin´?
Jan Van Landingham is his real name I guess.

[240RS]

After Mexico, where drivers are concerned, you could say the sum of the parts at Toyota easily outweigh those of M-Sport Ford and Hyundai.

Briefly, here is what they all bring to the table:

TOYOTA
1. Seb Ogier - Reliability, Experience, X-factor
2. Kalle Rovanpera - Reliability, Experience, Hunger, X-factor
3. Elfyn Evans - Experience, Hunger
4. Takamoto Katsuta - Hunger

M-Sport Ford
1. Ott Tanak - Reliability, Experience, Hunger, X-factor
2. Pierre-Louis Loubet - Hunger

Hyundai
1. Thierry Neuville - Reliability, Experience, Hunger, X-factor
2. Esapekka Lappi - Experience, Hunger
3. Craig Breen - Experience, Hunger
4. Dani Sordo - Reliability, Experience

Toyota's blend means the Manufacturers title is safely in the bag. The driver's title is what will be interesting to watch.

If Ford can scrape some reliability, the speed is there. Forget what Ott says. He will remain a title candidate as long as the car gets to the end of the event without serious gremlins.

Neuville is playing the percentage game best. He has to be a strong favourite for the title if he can just keep Rovanpera in sight. He nearly always finishes events.

[Norm75]

You missed out Serderidis. What does he bring to the table other than money? Enthusiasm or comedy?

[dimviii]

#shittypirellityres

David Kelly
@DavidKellyRally
·
8h
How did this not puncture? ��

On Saturday, a few drivers fell victim to some rocks that were pulled out by cars ahead on the stage

We hit one too - but didn’t realise til the stage-end the damage it did to the wheel - the tyre was still intact ��

Changed it and rallied on

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fr0KbHuWYAA5zsn?format=jpg&name=medium

[GigiGalliNo1]

Thought to let you all know, that this was the first Away WRC event produced in Finland... there were no local NEP trucks or studios. It was all broadcast live from Mexico to Finland to the world and seems to have been a success.

[AnttiL]

Thought to let you all know, that this was the first Away WRC event produced in Finland... there were no local NEP trucks or studios. It was all broadcast live from Mexico to Finland to the world and seems to have been a success.

Yeah, didn't notice any glitches!

[dnb]

Just that they cut the picture while the most interesting stuff happened (Lappi). And missed some other important driver mistakes or "happenings".

[AnttiL]

Just that they cut the picture while the most interesting stuff happened (Lappi). And missed some other important driver mistakes or "happenings".

The director can't predict the future. They can show a number of cars but can only guess who will crash out. Lappi's situation was shown as a replay.

[Franky]

They cut away from Lappi to show the following two cars just cruising the stage.

[Rallyper]

Sometimes they cut just before an interesting passage from incar, only showing 5 secs of car revving on the startline.

[ouvreur]

I really don't get why they have to show every car taking off from the start line. It's only interesting if the car has an issue - even then, just show a replay if something noteworthy happens.

Same with in-car shots of the driver / crew's faces. That isn't where the action is, it's just one person turning a steering wheel, and another reading a book. Again - show a replay if something actually interesting or amusing happens, no problem. But live? When has anything worth looking at happened on the face cam?

[AnttiL]

I really don't get why they have to show every car taking off from the start line. It's only interesting if the car has an issue - even then, just show a replay if something noteworthy happens.

Same with in-car shots of the driver / crew's faces. That isn't where the action is, it's just one person turning a steering wheel, and another reading a book. Again - show a replay if something actually interesting or amusing happens, no problem. But live? When has anything worth looking at happened on the face cam?

I agree with you. But I also try to understand why they do this stuff.

Start line shots are only shown on TV stages. They are likely for sponsors, so the decals an be seen clearly on a stopped car. It also creates a "story" for a person who doesn't watch rallying so much, showing the order in which things happen ie. a car starts, drives on stage, another car starts, first car finishes etc.

Face cam is just a gimmick to me. It's a nice touch if used sparsely, but it's not informative at all. But maybe it makes the footage less monotonous.

[AnttiL]

Sometimes they cut just before an interesting passage from incar, only showing 5 secs of car revving on the startline.

I think when the director cuts to another camera, it doesn't happen instantly so we sometimes see something interesting happening but can't cancel the cutting anymore.

[Franky]

I think when the director cuts to another camera, it doesn't happen instantly so we sometimes see something interesting happening but can't cancel the cutting anymore.

Cuts happen instantly. You push a button and done.

[AnttiL]

Cuts happen instantly. You push a button and done.

There's a some sort of transformation animation?

[Franky]

There's a some sort of transformation animation?

But transitions have a known duration. But with the start cameras it should be possible to trim the excess precisely as I believe they are always recordings/replays on normal stages.

[wyler]

But transitions have a known duration. But with the start cameras it should be possible to trim the excess precisely as I believe they are always recordings/replays on normal stages.

cameras are live all the time, you can switch (more than cut) instantly. you can apply a fixed time transition (wrc+ don't). that's the technical part.
the other side is narration/storytelling grammar. you have a semi-fixed script to balance the airing time between cars and also some fixed need. i.e = p.s starting of any car/end of ps/interview.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2023 Season - who was the fastest so far ?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-fastest-driver-so-far-in-wrc-2023/

Position Driver Stage wins
1 Sébastien Ogier 14
2 Thierry Neuville 13
3 Kalle Rovanperä 12
4 Esapekka Lappi 6
5 Ott Tänak 5
6 Craig Breen 4
7 Elfyn Evans 2
8= Taka Katsuta 1
8= Dani Sordo 1

[AnttiL]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/03/27/long-stages-vs-short-stages/

Pros and cons of long stages

[doubled1978]

https://itgetsfasternow.com/2023/03/27/long-stages-vs-short-stages/

Pros and cons of long stages

Good article Antti.
I suppose in an ideal world, we would have a rally with a mix of all of these lengths of stages, like the early 1980’s, but that’s not really possible now with the TV and rally format being so controlled.
Personally, I think on balance they legs are usually pretty good at 3/4 stages which balances out the stages and allows enough time for the TV to cover it all.

[Jarek Z]

Just a fun fact. I don't know if anybody here is into rally models, but it seems quite popular here in Poland. Last year DeAgostini issued a series of models from WRC and ERC (1:43 scale). This year they extend it with new cars. Good to see that rallying is still popular enough for someone to do it:
https://www.deagostini.com/pl/hobby/rally-cars

[atsiotras79]

Same series is also active in Greece, we are in No51, CZ, and Slovakia, and just recently finished in Spain.
Also looks that here in Greece the series is quite popular…

[dimviii]

Loeb.Any news we dont know,or worth to mentioned from the French speaking members?

https://youtu.be/E1ntTjJzWzE

[NOT]

Loeb.Any news we dont know,or worth to mentioned from the French speaking members?

https://youtu.be/E1ntTjJzWzE

you can turn auto translation with greek subtitiles on youtube

[ictus]

Can anyone tell me what "nips" means regarding stage notes?

[J4MIE]

Can anyone tell me what "nips" means regarding stage notes?

Usually a half tightens, but might be used instead of tightens as it’s quicker to say.

[Humber]

I have heard a local NZ crew use the 'nips' expression, as a quick break between note instructions, e.g in places where the quick change of direction that is not obvious in a wooded section of road. e.g fast left by a slower right.

[dimviii]

The Citroën DS3 WRC made its appearance in 2011, to replace the Citroën C4 WRC – due to a change in regulations. It remained Citroën's official weapon in the World Rally Championship until 2016. Overall, the model enabled the manufacturer to claim 26 victories in the World Rally Championship. No fewer than 11 of these 26 successes were won by chassis #17.

https://my-gallery.eu/listings/citroen-ds3-wrc/

[cali]

The Citroën DS3 WRC made its appearance in 2011, to replace the Citroën C4 WRC – due to a change in regulations. It remained Citroën's official weapon in the World Rally Championship until 2016. Overall, the model enabled the manufacturer to claim 26 victories in the World Rally Championship. No fewer than 11 of these 26 successes were won by chassis #17.

https://my-gallery.eu/listings/citroen-ds3-wrc/It was really 26 wins?

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[AnttiL]

Why not? Loeb and Ogier in 2011, Loeb and Hirvonen in 2012, and finally Loeb's one-offs, Sordo's 2013 Deutschland win and Meeke's wins

[cali]

Why not? Loeb and Ogier in 2011, Loeb and Hirvonen in 2012, and finally Loeb's one-offs, Sordo's 2013 Deutschland win and Meeke's winsOh crap, first thing in the morning and I guess my eyesight was too fuzzy as I thought it was about C3 WRC. I had to look twice to get it all straight. My bad!

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[becher]

The Citroën DS3 WRC made its appearance in 2011, to replace the Citroën C4 WRC – due to a change in regulations. It remained Citroën's official weapon in the World Rally Championship until 2016. Overall, the model enabled the manufacturer to claim 26 victories in the World Rally Championship. No fewer than 11 of these 26 successes were won by chassis #17.

https://my-gallery.eu/listings/citroen-ds3-wrc/

On of the winningest of all time?

[fiscorpun]

Im not suuuuper into Group B but I always watch these videos with "Forgotten cars" from that era.
This one was with some really weird cars
https://youtu.be/NL7igM0ncs4

[Jarek Z]

Im not suuuuper into Group B but I always watch these videos with "Forgotten cars" from that era.
This one was with some really weird cars
https://youtu.be/NL7igM0ncs4

Wow! They even mention FSO Polonez at the beginning! :)

[Mk2 RS2000]

Usually a half tightens, but might be used instead of tightens as it’s quicker to say.
Correct

[Mk2 RS2000]

I have heard a local NZ crew use the 'nips' expression, as a quick break between note instructions, e.g in places where the quick change of direction that is not obvious in a wooded section of road. e.g fast left by a slower right.
we are more likely to use the word " kink or kinks" in nz as in there is a kink in the road

[becher]

I don't care about american rallying, but I must say this contraption intrigues me. Any body knows more about this V8 Ferrari powered Impreza?


https://youtu.be/H1ANJAChHEY

[Franky]

I don't care about american rallying, but I must say this contraption intrigues me. Any body knows more about this V8 Ferrari powered Impreza?


https://youtu.be/H1ANJAChHEY

Came across one of the videos before, but didn't check too much. Here's the channel of the driver covering the build - https://www.youtube.com/@SamAlbertRally

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone guess what this mid-engined, turbocharged, but dead-on-arrival rally car was ?

https://i.imgur.com/ipr5ra2.jpg

[focus206]

Is that a Talbot Samba? But I've only ever heard of the "regular" FWD version

[Paul Hudson]

Talbot Horizon.

[becher]

Talbot Horizon.
This. A precursor to the 205 T16.

[Norm75]

Yes, group b Talbot horizon. Talbot started development when the sunbeam became less competitive, it was mid mounted and turbocharged I believe but think it was only rear wheel drive, so it was canned with the merger with Peugeot who were developing the 205 T16

[Jarek Z]

It's simple, but looks great. Old cars had very nice proportions.

[Jarek Z]

Does anybody remember former WRC driver Urmo Aava? After a long break from rallying he is back on the entry list of Rapla Ralli in Estonia (look at #12):
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/81097-rapla-ralli-2023/

[Jarek Z]

Speaking of old cars... maybe some of you will be interested in watching Miko Marczyk testing Audi Quattro S1 E2? English subtitles are provided:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1CKXaeKSPw

[Rallyest]

Does anybody remember former WRC driver Urmo Aava? After a long break from rallying he is back on the entry list of Rapla Ralli in Estonia (look at #12):
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/81097-rapla-ralli-2023/

yes that should be very interesting to see how he can keep up with new guns :D

Here is a little of his testing action before this rally

https://play.tv3.ee/Ghost%20AVOD%20NEWS/vaata-kuidas-moodus-urmo-aava-testsoit,clip-5453096

[J4MIE]

Does anybody remember former WRC driver Urmo Aava? After a long break from rallying he is back on the entry list of Rapla Ralli in Estonia (look at #12):
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/81097-rapla-ralli-2023/

It is really really difficult to escape from rallying completely and never do it again. He has been organising Rally Estonia though, right?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That car was a Talbot Horizon LOTUS :)

As they hatched plans for the Sunbeam’s successor they rejected its upcoming replacement, the French-made Samba, and decided to base their next-generation col conqueror on the larger Horizon hatchback, re-engineered to take the Sunbeam Lotus engine mounted longways behind the front seats and driving the rear wheels.

As installed in the first prototype it ran the same output as the Sunbeam competition cars, around 250bhp, but Lotus engineers had an ace to play. Like Renault, they’d been early adopters of turbocharging and by fitting a second Horizon prototype with a tweaked-up engine from an Esprit Turbo they had a 300-horsepower rally fighter on their hands.

https://www.evo.co.uk/features/205868/talbot-horizon-lotus-dead-on-arrival

[Norm75]

Yes Eddie, I had a bit of a look this afternoon and read that David Lapworth was one of the test drivers, apparently it wasn’t so good on corners. I also found a few interesting cars that were being trialled by the psa group. Plenty of visa prototypes were made in 4wd form for group b (found one that looked interesting with quite aggressive aero bodywork on and known as a visa lotus) and also a group b Peugeot 305 v6 rear wheel drive that looked interesting.

2436

[Jarek Z]

yes that should be very interesting to see how he can keep up with new guns :D


It is really really difficult to escape from rallying completely and never do it again. He has been organising Rally Estonia though, right?

It seems Aava has rusted a bit. He finished the rally down in the 6th position:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/81097-rapla-ralli-2023/

[bandit12]

It seems Aava has rusted a bit. He finished the rally down in the 6th position:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/81097-rapla-ralli-2023/
Puncture from ss8. Was on second place till then

[cali]

Puncture from ss8. Was on second place till thenYeah you got to look the whole picture incl. driving in a old Gr. N Impreza against newer Rally2 machinery + time penalty + puncture. Tells a bigger story than just looking at the overall results. And yes, he definitely is rusty as well.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is a brilliant resource on Group B cars and especially the fascinating prototypes that never came to fruition.

https://rallygroupbshrine.org/the-group-b-cars/group-b-prototypes/

[becher]

So I looked at the FIA database and couldn't find anything, but I seem to remember two door GC8 Group A Imprezas (so not the WRC cars from 97 onwards). Where these a thing (obviously not works cars) or is my memory tricking me? Anybody got any insight?

[Norm75]

So I looked at the FIA database and couldn't find anything, but I seem to remember two door GC8 Group A Imprezas (so not the WRC cars from 97 onwards). Where these a thing (obviously not works cars) or is my memory tricking me? Anybody got any insight?
I’m not so sure there are any/many group A 2 door gc8 imprezas. Might be a few group n but think all the grp a impreza were built from type ra base cars (thinner lighter glass etc) which were pretty much built to use as the base for rally cars, and they were only made in 4 door shells.
I could be wrong but I think that is why all grp a imprezas were 4 door.

[dimviii]

me too,i dont remember 2 door gr A imprezas.

[becher]

Hmm yes could be Group N cars as well, I need to try and find the video where I thought to have seen one.

[lmmjvss]

I started watching the FIM Hard Enduro World Champonship on RedBull TV this weekend, first time watching it.
The coverage is very similar to WRC's, I suppose.... But seeing a "new sport" for the first time felt really good regarding the presentation of the sport and the coverage of the important bits. (12min long videos)

Maybe RedbullTV's WRC coverage is pretty ok but when it comes to WRC we just got tired or think its not enough.
The format is very similar to wrc too... A special stage on the first day and 3 days of "enduro" racing where fans on the course only see the guys passing by... and thats it haha Like stages in rally, somehow I guess?
I know, two different worlds. Bikes and Cars, but anyway. Im changing my mind about the "broadcast" on redbull tv.
I guess its just fine, especially for new fans starting to watch, u'know? The format is the same. If this sport got me hooked, then WRC has also that power.

[HKSjbg]

So I looked at the FIA database and couldn't find anything, but I seem to remember two door GC8 Group A Imprezas (so not the WRC cars from 97 onwards). Where these a thing (obviously not works cars) or is my memory tricking me? Anybody got any insight?

I know I’ve seen one before: https://youtu.be/VMvKug5LMrQ

Only a brief explanation of it at 0:40, but I looked it up on ewrc-results.com a while back when you could check vehicle history etc. without subscription; if I remember correctly that particular one has not seen any special stage action in years, perhaps decades.

My guess it was either full group A spec parts transferred into a 2-door body or a 2-door group N with upgraded parts and referred to as being a group A - much like when you see an Evo VII, VIII or IX described as ‘group A’ spec. In those cases ‘group A’ loses meaning to me

[becher]

I know I’ve seen one before: https://youtu.be/VMvKug5LMrQ

Only a brief explanation of it at 0:40, but I looked it up on ewrc-results.com a while back when you could check vehicle history etc. without subscription; if I remember correctly that particular one has not seen any special stage action in years, perhaps decades.

My guess it was either full group A spec parts transferred into a 2-door body or a 2-door group N with upgraded parts and referred to as being a group A - much like when you see an Evo VII, VIII or IX described as ‘group A’ spec. In those cases ‘group A’ loses meaning to me

Ah thanks, this is most likely the video I've seen it in the first place!

[AndyRAC]

I started watching the FIM Hard Enduro World Champonship on RedBull TV this weekend, first time watching it.
The coverage is very similar to WRC's, I suppose.... But seeing a "new sport" for the first time felt really good regarding the presentation of the sport and the coverage of the important bits. (12min long videos)

Maybe RedbullTV's WRC coverage is pretty ok but when it comes to WRC we just got tired or think its not enough.
The format is very similar to wrc too... A special stage on the first day and 3 days of "enduro" racing where fans on the course only see the guys passing by... and thats it haha Like stages in rally, somehow I guess?
I know, two different worlds. Bikes and Cars, but anyway. Im changing my mind about the "broadcast" on redbull tv.
I guess its just fine, especially for new fans starting to watch, u'know? The format is the same. If this sport got me hooked, then WRC has also that power.

Yeah, Hard Enduro is a great series, and only the third year of having an official FIM World Championship. The more established EnduroGP doesn't have as good coverage......and that is actually more like WRC, with a Friday evening Super Test follwed by 2 days of 3 special tests repeated over both days.

The next round of Hard Enduro, the Red Bull Erzbergrodeo is normally live on RBTV.

[Norm75]

Ah thanks, this is most likely the video I've seen it in the first place!

Yeh I reckon it was just an odd car or two that had grp a parts put on a two door shell. It is a little odd Subaru didn’t make grp a 2 door but it might have been a marketing thing. The Impreza was ready to go before the Legacy was retired but they didn’t want to replace it until it had won a wrc event. After McRae won NZ it was then time for the Impreza to replace it so you can see Subaru do things with marketing in mind. The fact the 2 door type r Impreza was never sold elsewhere other than the Japanese domestic market probably had some part to play in it not being used, but when the wrc car regs replaced the grp a regs I would imagine the 2 door shell was used because the shell would most likely be stiffer and stronger to start with, and easier to convert bodywork for the wider track used.

[becher]

Yeh I reckon it was just an odd car or two that had grp a parts put on a two door shell. It is a little odd Subaru didn’t make grp a 2 door but it might have been a marketing thing. The Impreza was ready to go before the Legacy was retired but they didn’t want to replace it until it had won a wrc event. After McRae won NZ it was then time for the Impreza to replace it so you can see Subaru do things with marketing in mind. The fact the 2 door type r Impreza was never sold elsewhere other than the Japanese domestic market probably had some part to play in it not being used, but when the wrc car regs replaced the grp a regs I would imagine the 2 door shell was used because the shell would most likely be stiffer and stronger to start with, and easier to convert bodywork for the wider track used.

Probably more to do with homologation for no advantage? The Impreza came in 1993 and stuck with the same homologation, the two door was launched in 1995 so could've found it's way to be rallied by Prodrive in 1996, by which time Prodrive was developing the WRC97 anyway. So homologating a two door shell that was only sold in very few markets didn't make sense.


Also do people really buy the story about the Legacy having to win? By any chance the Impreza might have never debuted.

[AnttiL]

Maybe RedbullTV's WRC coverage is pretty ok but when it comes to WRC we just got tired or think its not enough.
The format is very similar to wrc too... A special stage on the first day and 3 days of "enduro" racing where fans on the course only see the guys passing by... and thats it haha Like stages in rally, somehow I guess?

I think the only sporting disciplines split into special stages over the course of several days, with the competitors going only against the clock are rallying, moto enduro and mtb enduro?

[Sulland]

Not sure if this one has been here before, but looks like fun, both for driver and fans!

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1726455171132046

[Managarium]

So, I've watched some onboard videos today of Rally Sardegna, and I've noteced that nobody is using any kind of rain repellent on their windshield glass.
I'm personally using it on my car and on the speeds above 50-60 kph, it helps me a lot. It is better visibility, rain glides of the glas and wiper blades are working much smoother.
So, is it forbidden to use this repellents or the tims and drivers just don't care?

[Norm75]

I thought rally cars use, or used to use piaa wiper blades. They are silicone and when used leave a repellant film on the glass and help disperse water without needing to use the wipers much.

I did have a set but my mot guy had a habit of replacing wiper blades as a matter of course. I wasn’t best pleased at £50 a set that he had binned them!

[dimviii]

piaa are really very good wipers,worth every extra euro from any other wipers.
They last plenty of years too

[Jarek Z]

What do you guys think about this idea? Love it or hate it? ;)
https://www.fiaworldrallycross.com/world-rx/news/world-rx/2023/recreating-an-iconic-look--the-lancia-delta-evo-e-rx-pays-tribute-to-its-past/

[Norm75]

piaa are really very good wipers,worth every extra euro from any other wipers.
They last plenty of years too

They don’t when the mot guy lobs them in a skip!

[AnttiL]

This forum is nowadays so miserable that I get just negative feelings coming here so I'll log off for a while or maybe permanently. See you elsewhere.

[Rallyper]

I guess it´s because you always arguments against any statement. If you calm down a bit you´d enjoy it as well.

[EstWRC]

lol

some sensitive people we have here

[Rallyper]

lol

some sensitive people we have here

Yes. Didn´t see it coming.

But I think AnttiL contributes a lot here. It would be nice if he stays.

[EstWRC]

Yes. Didn´t see it coming.

But I think AnttiL contributes a lot here. It would be nice if he stays.

Well he is a grown man and it’s his choice. People come and go

Finnish people are the happiest in the world as we know so maybe this is the way how they do it. Just ignore “miserable” places :D

[cali]

Is there any particular beef or arguements for AnttiL's decision?
But I agree with EstWRC we're all grown people here and free to make our decisions.

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[NOT]

Finnish people are the happiest in the world as we know

someone must inform finnish people as well about this fact... they seem to miss it...

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ss/suicidestatistics2019/

[NOT]

This forum is nowadays so miserable that I get just negative feelings coming here so I'll log off for a while or maybe permanently. See you elsewhere.

its the sport that is miserable in its current state... this place did not change... i annoyed autistic people 20 years ago as much i do now.

[becher]

Is there any particular beef or arguements for AnttiL's decision?
But I agree with EstWRC we're all grown people here and free to make our decisions.

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I think its a case of "this is the worst rally" comments every single event, add constant whinging about tyre saving/powerstage/rules/FIA decisions/... And not to upset the Estonian/Tänak-army, but most comments in forum seem to be about how miserable his season is.

[Sulland]

This forum is nowadays so miserable that I get just negative feelings coming here so I'll log off for a while or maybe permanently. See you elsewhere.

Compared to when i forst came here, almost 20 years ago, the discussion climate, and in that, to answer questions from freshmen to the sport is very different.

I have no problem to be put in my place by veterans in here, but when youngsters at the same age as my kids tell all in here that they all have it wrong, and in a tone that are "keyboard trollers" worthy, it is a limit for when a discussion forum goes from being a good place to spend time, and give energy to something that suck enegy.

The activity in reflects that. Som of the ones that have access to forum dashboard and can take out statistics will be able to verify I guess.

maybe it is time to give out yellow and red cards, so admin and mods will use power on people that can not behave!

[Dontcut]

Is touring car series still use handycap weight addition to Championship top drivers. That idea in WRC? Some steel plates max 40kg at 50/50 balance point low underneath the car. Shoot me.

[J4MIE]

Compared to when i forst came here, almost 20 years ago, the discussion climate, and in that, to answer questions from freshmen to the sport is very different.

I have no problem to be put in my place by veterans in here, but when youngsters at the same age as my kids tell all in here that they all have it wrong, and in a tone that are "keyboard trollers" worthy, it is a limit for when a discussion forum goes from being a good place to spend time, and give energy to something that suck enegy.

The activity in reflects that. Som of the ones that have access to forum dashboard and can take out statistics will be able to verify I guess.

maybe it is time to give out yellow and red cards, so admin and mods will use power on people that can not behave!

Exactly this, it is pointless to call idiots out for being idiots, as they never realise they are idiots and think they are never wrong. And some comments above are, quite frankly, pathetic.

[Norm75]

its the sport that is miserable in its current state... this place did not change... i annoyed autistic people 20 years ago as much i do now.

Agree with first part of post. Disagree with 2nd part, couldn’t give a fvck.

[AndyRAC]

Compared to when i forst came here, almost 20 years ago, the discussion climate, and in that, to answer questions from freshmen to the sport is very different.

I have no problem to be put in my place by veterans in here, but when youngsters at the same age as my kids tell all in here that they all have it wrong, and in a tone that are "keyboard trollers" worthy, it is a limit for when a discussion forum goes from being a good place to spend time, and give energy to something that suck enegy.

The activity in reflects that. Some of the ones that have access to forum dashboard and can take out statistics will be able to verify I guess.

maybe it is time to give out yellow and red cards, so admin and mods will use power on people that cannot behave!

It was extremely busy, and lively about 20 years ago. Lots of healthy discussion. It helped that the WRC was in a really good place (though that wouldn't last). Other forums like Pistonheads, Autosport have rally threads and they're quiet.

To be honest, the issues are symptomatic of modern life; I've noticed it on other forums where newcomers immediately think they can 'rubbish' long time forum users, and show absolutely no respect at all.

[becher]

Is touring car series still use handycap weight addition to Championship top drivers. That idea in WRC? Some steel plates max 40kg at 50/50 balance point low underneath the car. Shoot me.

Sorry, but the latter please.

[Sulland]

But no matter how bad and slow this forum will get, pls do not try to swap to facebook or any other of the things we call social media that the youngsters use. We had a pretty lively rally forum in Norway, that was restarted on facebook, and very soon went into hibernation.

It is not harder than to respect other people opinions, and run a clean debate. It is all good to challenge meanings and minds, but treat others the same way you would like to be treated, and can look back on in a few years and still be ok with!

[meh]

In theory it's all easy - there are facts and there are opinions. Problems start when people start mixing them and opinions are also more like a religion - just blind believing and the result is - religious war.

We can be precise with facts, we can have opinions with understanding and respecting, that opinion is like ass, everyone has their own.

[sinepikohv]

The FIA publishes list of homologated parts, right? I mean, when teams use joker we could know whether they've changed something with the motor, chassis etc. It's all vaguely written, of course. I can't seem to find such documents about 2023 but perhaps somebody here knows where to look at?

[becher]

The FIA publishes list of homologated parts, right? I mean, when teams use joker we could know whether they've changed something with the motor, chassis etc. It's all vaguely written, of course. I can't seem to find such documents about 2023 but perhaps somebody here knows where to look at?

In my experience it is quite difficult to find current documents.

[Rallyper]

But no matter how bad and slow this forum will get, pls do not try to swap to facebook or any other of the things we call social media that the youngsters use. We had a pretty lively rally forum in Norway, that was restarted on facebook, and very soon went into hibernation.

It is not harder than to respect other people opinions, and run a clean debate. It is all good to challenge meanings and minds, but treat others the same way you would like to be treated, and can look back on in a few years and still be ok with!

+10

[EstWRC]

Last year after sardegna vs this year

2022 / 2023
Rovanperä 120 / 118
Neuville 65 / 93
Tänak 62 / 85
Katsuta 47
Evans 39 / 83

[Katvala]

It was extremely busy, and lively about 20 years ago. Lots of healthy discussion. It helped that the WRC was in a really good place (though that wouldn't last). Other forums like Pistonheads, Autosport have rally threads and they're quiet.

To be honest, the issues are symptomatic of modern life; I've noticed it on other forums where newcomers immediately think they can 'rubbish' long time forum users, and show absolutely no respect at all.The trend of forums dying out is also part of it. Younger folks don't tend to go to forums to talk about things. They use Reddit, discord, social media and so on.

Sent from my M2012K11G using Tapatalk

[becher]

Last year after sardegna vs this year

2022 / 2023
Rovanperä 120 / 118
Neuville 65 / 93
Tänak 62 / 85
Katsuta 47
Evans 39 / 83
Goes to show how much he dominated last season, when we allready see him as the nailed on title favorite despite the much more "even" points distribution this year.

[CeskyOndra]

Guys.. I dont actually know how old are you, but Im 16 and Im using social media like Discord, Instagram, etc.. So for my generation is "forum" quite old. But I totally respect and I really like this forum. In my opinion, this website is so much better than Facebook for example. I appreciate the community here and there is all you need for chating :)

[skarderud]

Guys.. I dont actually know how old are you, but Im 16 and Im using social media like Discord, Instagram, etc.. So for my generation is "forum" quite old. But I totally respect and I really like this forum. In my opinion, this website is so much better than Facebook for example. I appreciate the community here and there is all you need for chating :)Welcome! I'm 30 yrs older than you, i have a son at your age, good to see young people enjoy this sport!

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[becher]

Guys.. I dont actually know how old are you, but Im 16 and Im using social media like Discord, Instagram, etc.. So for my generation is "forum" quite old. But I totally respect and I really like this forum. In my opinion, this website is so much better than Facebook for example. I appreciate the community here and there is all you need for chating :)
I'm also on the younger side (but not nearly as young as you) and only joined the forum fairly recently and only started really writing last years Monte but I've been reading it for years and also dug up plenty of old threads to read long before I joined. I have to agree, it doesn't compare to anything else. Sure sometimes people are fanboys, misreable, just a**holes or acting a bit stupid, but the knowledge is still here, as is the enthusiasm and one gets the news quicker than anywhere else.

All in all there is still a lot this forum has to offer.

[Neige]

I will do an interview with the P1 Fuels guy, who is working in WRC refueling zones. If you have some interesting points to ask, just let me know.

[sinepikohv]

I too am on the younger side, I guess. I'm 28. I also really like the forum and it's inevitable that there are some pricks or sometimes discussions get too heated. Nevertheless I feel like this is a place where one can speak his/her mind and converse about rally. In my home country (Estonia) there's a Facebook group/forum with over 20k members but truth be told it's an ugly place for a diehard rally fan. There Neuville is always a whiner, Finns always hate Estonians etc. gibberish that just doesn't give any value to anyone. Reasonable posts or arguments are usually on the background as most just vent their emotions there.

So even though a classical forum type page might not be the most popular, most of the people who are where love rally and love talking about it. As I said before mishaps still happen yet they're not too frequent, I think.

I like it here.

[DoN_cz]

By the way, AnttiL has set up an Discord server few weeks ago, where we can chat rally (and non-rally) 24/7 :) https://discord.gg/YrK7X9FP

I see this chat format (though I would prefer IRC, but that is too 90's) ideal for casual talk or even commenting during the event (forum format seems a bit inappropriate for that).

[CeskyOndra]

@skarderud , I hope that your son is a rally fan too! Im actually really young, but I'm big fan of rallying since 2017 :D In my city, I know here maybe 5 teenagers who are interested in rally too! It's always really nice to meet someone with same hobby :)

[Rallyper]

By the way, AnttiL has set up an Discord server few weeks ago, where we can chat rally (and non-rally) 24/7 :) https://discord.gg/YrK7X9FP

I see this chat format (though I would prefer IRC, but that is too 90's) ideal for casual talk or even commenting during the event (forum format seems a bit inappropriate for that).

Maybe that´s why he has left this forum.
I´d say it´s not so wise.

[Norm75]

I agree per. I am a member on a few forums and a lot of them are dying on their arse. This forum is slowing down a little bit it’s still active. Another forum I frequent is still popular and active, but there was a certain group that seemed to think their opinions were the b all and end all and ended up leaving the forum and starting their own. Needless to say that new forum is not very active, or nowhere near as active as the former.

I like this forum. I like difference of opinion and healthy debate. Sometimes I have my own opinion and read other peoples opinion and it helps me see things from a different perspective, change my view even.

I don’t even mind NOT. Even though he has very much of a low opinion of my nationality, the last time he brought that up was immediately followed by our national news coverage with people losing their shit because our prime minister was seen in the back of a car without a seatbelt on, first world problems and all that! So I couldn’t really argue with NOT on that one ��

[bomber21]

Maybe I am getting old but I do not really understand how to use this discord thing.

AFAIK, this forum right here is the only active international rally forum in the world.

[seb_sh]

The forum format does have an advantage for writing longer ideas. I think this is the most interesting place to talk about rally on the internet. I remember in the old days there used to be a lot of very interesting people posting. Pentti for example or remember when we had the best weather guy in the WRC doing weather forecast for us here? that was cool :) And others...

About assholes and such i guess it's up to the majority to decide what is acceptable but I know for a fact a couple people stopped coming here because let's say they didn't like the "atmosphere" or didn't want to be associated with certain types of discussion.

[WRCStan]

I don't come here often now, it's so much more enjoyable to pop in occasionally and lurk for some alpha information or news, will post this as it's meta.

I don't think it's a great 'discussion forum' at all, for there's not much tolerance for alternative opinions. Those with the time and tendency to post mostly have negative energy and those with positive energy don't have the time or tendency to post, or they have their energy zapped. I can see why Antti might feel zapped, I saw even after he simply says he's taking a break due to the negativity, negativity instantly continued to shoot him.

Sulland said as much, but I disagree that aged accounts should somehow know everything. Times change and the world goes with it and certainly this sport has, and I don't think all aged accounts realise this and can be stuck with invalid points. You try and 'discuss' things you can be ignored, taken for a troll, or shot down with negativity. Actually, I was told to shut up for posting a factual point precisely about how WRC had changed over time, and so I've shut up and not looked back since. Even if jovial tone was/is intended it doesn't carry through the internet, it just spreads as assholery. Think I was both these at times, think I was driven to it for I didn't initially sign up to be a jerk.

[skarderud]

@skarderud , I hope that your son is a rally fan too! Im actually really young, but I'm big fan of rallying since 2017 :D In my city, I know here maybe 5 teenagers who are interested in rally too! It's always really nice to meet someone with same hobby :)@CeskyOndra thanks, he is. But my daughter even more, she also codrives sometimes.

If you show your friends the best YouTube clips of rally, i bet some more will be interrested.:)

Good you found this sport!

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[skarderud]

Yes, its easy to be not that nice too members, or trolls, that is not that nice.
But i'm fed up with all the "besserwissers" or even worse, DH's that try to ruin the good places, indended or not.
The best norwegian forum was ruined by a couple of people that hided behind a nickname noone knows who was.
If you are angry at someone, a public forum working well is not the right place to take it out.
Take a walk in the forest and cry like a man instead:)

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[Rallyper]

Maybe I am getting old but I do not really understand how to use this discord thing.

AFAIK, this forum right here is the only active international rally forum in the world.

When I found it, maybe around 2008 or smth, it was from Marcus Grönholms website. In his links thread he recommended Motorsportforums. I fell in live immediately...

[Rallyper]

I don't come here often now, it's so much more enjoyable to pop in occasionally and lurk for some alpha information or news, will post this as it's meta.

I don't think it's a great 'discussion forum' at all, for there's not much tolerance for alternative opinions. Those with the time and tendency to post mostly have negative energy and those with positive energy don't have the time or tendency to post, or they have their energy zapped. I can see why Antti might feel zapped, I saw even after he simply says he's taking a break due to the negativity, negativity instantly continued to shoot him.

Sulland said as much, but I disagree that aged accounts should somehow know everything. Times change and the world goes with it and certainly this sport has, and I don't think all aged accounts realise this and can be stuck with invalid points. You try and 'discuss' things you can be ignored, taken for a troll, or shot down with negativity. Actually, I was told to shut up for posting a factual point precisely about how WRC had changed over time, and so I've shut up and not looked back since. Even if jovial tone was/is intended it doesn't carry through the internet, it just spreads as assholery. Think I was both these at times, think I was driven to it for I didn't initially sign up to be a jerk.

Well, those who are hypersensitive may have problems if they can´t see other people have different views. Shouldn´t be like that, bcs everyone contributes. Leaving on those grounds is kind of selfish...?

[bomber21]

When I found it, maybe around 2008 or smth, it was from Marcus Grönholms website. In his links thread he recommended Motorsportforums. I fell in live immediately...
Yeah, same here because it is the only place in the internet I can communicate with other enthusiasts about my passion.

But to be honest, we deserve something better. Forum software is outdated and there is no big moderating team. This is why we have all these spammers destroying threads with ads for drugs.

I know that this costs money but we all enthusiasts must do something. e-wrc.com is an example of passionate people doing something great. Why cannot we do the same with a forum? In the end of the day, rally is our passion and this passion makes our lives better. We won’t live forever and we deserve a nice modern place to discuss.

[EstWRC]

Go Cyril! Really like the guy so far, isn’t afraid of saying things out

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-boss-calls-for-wrc-event-format-review/10479591/

[skarderud]

Go Cyril! Really like the guy so far, isn’t afraid of saying things out

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-boss-calls-for-wrc-event-format-review/10479591/Good to have this kind of people in charge!

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[seb_sh]

Yeah Cyril is a plus for Hyundai as well as the WRC itself. Let's see what they come up with!

[AndyRAC]

Good that he's speaking out, but I'm slightly wary of what he's saying.......I think he's wanting something like end of leg points for Friday & Saturday....He's right about the Sunday though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Its gonna be a tough one to solve apart from fresh tyres for the PS.

Like many motorsport events and some other sports, the excitement drops away after the result has become decided. Like in F1 the win isn't often in doubt after the halfway point, or in football if one team has a decent lead with 20 mins to go.

It's fundamental for rallying has to have the endurance element and so every event cant always have a super-close battle for positions right to the end...

[Franky]

Go Cyril! Really like the guy so far, isn’t afraid of saying things out

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-boss-calls-for-wrc-event-format-review/10479591/

Lets wait till his idea/s become public and then give a verdict.

[meh]

Rally is not only sprint + sprint + sprint (stages), but also strategy to keep all resources lasting (cars, tires, etc). From competition for overall places or from general entertainment point of view I can not see any benefit to get fresh set of tires for PowerStage.

When it comes to play - if super-rally guys have more fresh tires left than those who have done full race, then competitors with super-rally have tire-advantage for powerstage. Like it was this time (Sardegna) with Tänak and Takamoto.

So, I don't see fresh tires for powerstage for solution to make Sundays more interesting, as the main reason is lack of competitors and because of that, not enough for fighting for positions (and it will be extra killed with team-orders). But I can see the point to make it more equal to earn PowerStage points.

[Rallyper]

Even if someone have big lead in rallying nothing is decided until the last stage finishline. Look at Rally2 last weekend, for example.

That´s the secret with rallying. You never know final result until end.

PS fresh tires, absolutely. Thursday to Saturday, maybe.

I think the big bosses should take a common close look for a future format. In bosses I would include organizer representants, for example Kai T from Finland. They would also have a lot to say I guess.

Not sprint, but more endurance needed.

[Norm75]

Points for the overall rally win. Points awarded at the end of each day for that days performances. i.e three rallies in one rally.

[HKSjbg]

Good that he's speaking out, but I'm slightly wary of what he's saying.......I think he's wanting something like end of leg points for Friday & Saturday....He's right about the Sunday though.

Yeah I read his Friday/Saturday comments to mean something like an over-hyping or gimmicky addition to the days proceedings. So long as the legs are long enough and arduous enough I think the entertainment will come in the form of not knowing exactly what’s going to unfold.

There’s not much wrong other than each leg could do with being a bit longer (especially the pathetically short Sundays)

[TypeR]

If they decide to award extra points for days, stages etc then they must also change the overall points system, because otherwise winning/finishing rally doesn't meen too much..

Even at the moment 5 points from PS is quite a lot.. in Sardegna Rovanperä got more points for 3rd + PS win than Lappi for finishing rally on 2nd place.
But some changes are needed for sure..

[Norm75]

Yes the points system would need looking at. Just throwing the idea out there, it would at least stop the cruising to the power stage on a Sunday.

I would suggest something along the lines of keeping overall points for the rally the same as is, but points for the day (leaderboard for the day based on that particular days performance, not the overall leaderboard) awarded to the top 6 on that day and starting at 10 points like the old system. Do away with power stage as that should see drivers scrapping to the last stage.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The final day issue of 'managing a lead' or 'cruising' so as to avoid the risk of losing your result isn't confined to WRC. It happens and has happened for years in many, many rallies at all levels.

For example the other weekend Fourmaux was doing the Jim Clark Rally in the BRC. After two stages on the Friday night he'd built up a lead of 28 seconds. He then went through the 6 Saturday steadily and never in the top 3 stage times but still won the rally....

[Katvala]

With more entrants there'd be less of a chance of boring Sundays. When we had more entrants and manufacturers, there was often cruising Sunday, but there was more often battles for positions and podium places so that there usually would be something of interest to watch. Nowadays I often skip watching Sundays until powerstage.

There is a lot of feedback loops in WRC. Less entrants causes less interest causes less entrants and so on..

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[skarderud]

With more entrants there'd be less of a chance of boring Sundays. When we had more entrants and manufacturers, there was often cruising Sunday, but there was more often battles for positions and podium places so that there usually would be something of interest to watch. Nowadays I often skip watching Sundays until powerstage.

There is a lot of feedback loops in WRC. Less entrants causes less interest causes less entrants and so on..

Sent from my M2012K11G using TapatalkSpot on.

Of course its more fighting with more entrants, you can't drive safe if someone pushing you.

Weird, those insane spectacular cars people need to have, are boring most of the rally....
People want fighting and close racing all weekend, Rally1 formula don't work, then Rally2 can give fans what they really want.


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[fiscorpun]

Do u guys follow more motorsports series on social media? I dont use it a lot.. i honestly open them one or two times a week or so, but man, sports championships are getting SO ANNYING with lots of 5 to 20 sec pointless clips. Jeeez is this how Youngster live? Its weird to think "this is what they gotta do in order to be relevant". But like, I still dont believe these people are actually watching motorsport. They probably just watch these quick clips of a crash (nascar, rally) or a "funny radio message" (f1/indy) or a nice whip (motocross) and think "Cool"... And thats it. Its like, these Championships need to have racing for their fans and "CONTENT" for non fans. WHY? I dont understand haha whats the point in having mu cousing saying "rallying is awesome, look at this car going crazy fast into a tree"...- Oh, do you watch rally?.. "No".
Haha is there value in this?? Or its the same BS about "Electric Cars will make the world clean, lets transport them on aeroplanes to Kenya"?
Haha ahh everything is so weird, mate

[skarderud]

I think your point is really good, this tiktok stupidity is what they get used to, its ruined peoples attentionspan.

I don't use [un]social media that much, mostly FB og Instagram due to work and follow some motorsport, mostly rally.

The concentration and attention of both kids and adults these days is close to a joke, its ruined just in last 10 years.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

You guys are right. Nothing has really changed that much in the way the WRC events run, but people's general way of being entertained has. They've started to expect action and drama non-stop.

All-Live can show a lot of boring onboards of just a dirt track ahead. People who aren't interested should dip in and out more and if there are no battles to excite them then just wait for the Power Stage.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyna4y1WcAYexSS?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fyqi9ekXgAAwVv9?format=jpg&name=900x900

[lmmjvss]

Kalle visiting and testing some Daigo Saito's drifting cars https://youtu.be/ioMyyP3aTZ0

[Morte66]

I think whatever you do with points, do it gradually. Start with one point for the best time over the Sunday morning excluding PS. If that seems to do something but is not enough, increase it to one point per Sunday morning stage. Keep with small, steady tweaks and plenty of time to see how they work. Stop when done.

[lmmjvss]

Really enjoying the drifting vlogs on Kalle's channel. I wonder when he will start to focus his efforts at being a champ in one of those Championship. Maybe after a second WRC title?
Do we know if his drifting mechanics work in his WRC car?

[fiscorpun]

DACIA entering Dakar, signed Loeb and C Gutierrez (current champions in ExtremeE)

Jeezz, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CHOOSE WRC INSTEAD OF OTHER SERIES?? haha =´[

[lmmjvss]

Ah...just noticed that the absolute rally podcast is really dead :/
The guys did the last ever episode last year. I missed that. Thats sad..

[SubaruNorway]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rally-driver-caught-with-thousands-of-child-abuse-images-avoids-jail/a771722662.html

[lmmjvss]

2462
So far, Ogies is leading every session =P

[lmmjvss]

Seb won the Super Buggy class.... Dani Sordo won the Sprint Car class!
NICE!! I mean, of course Seb was using an FIA European Champion car against only privateers... but thats cool anyway! He was racing with a BMW engine, in case anyone is interested =P

[fiscorpun]

TWO WRC'17 cars in the Rally Bohemia. A Msport Fiesta (Dohnal) and a C3 (Skála).
Couldnt find their finishing positions on e-wrc results thos... not on the regular rally nor in the 'historical'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcOTji6Ftlg

[kure91]

fiscorpun, they only attended 1st leg and did not competed at Sunday, thus they are not listed in results. Although at ewrc-results they are both listed as those who competed only 1st leg. https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/80681-rally-bohemia-2023/

[fiscorpun]

fiscorpun, they only attended 1st leg and did not competed at Sunday, thus they are not listed in results. Although at ewrc-results they are both listed as those who competed only 1st leg. https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/80681-rally-bohemia-2023/

Ahhhhhhh I see!! Thanks for the info! Tnx

[240RS]

Half-way through the season, time to take stock:

1. Toyota will NOT lose the Manufacturers' title. They were favourites at the start of the season. Now they are near dead-cert.
2. Kalle Rovanpera has added maturity to his undoubted pace and is beginning to look like the complete deal.
3. Hyundai have failed to build on their end of year momentum and appear unable to bridge the gap decisively.
4. M-Sport Ford are stuck in a rut, it would appear. Outright pace not in doubt, but reliability very iffy.
5. Esapekka Lappi proving more than a match for Neuville on gravel. Good signing.

Our forum has been quiet. I'm sure there is plenty more that we have all observed.

[skarderud]

Petter S was at Goodwood, driving a Škoda Octavia WRC, and was a passenger in Toyotas Rally2 car. Good possibility to see oliver in that car next year i presume.

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[Rallyest]

So after what Rally Kalle will secure his second title? After Greece or Chile? :)

[cali]

So after what Rally Kalle will secure his second title? After Greece or Chile? :)Soon, very soon..

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[Eli]

So after what Rally Kalle will secure his second title? After Greece or Chile? :)

If I had to guess, Chile; last year he 'only' took the championship after NZ with 2 rounds remaining and he held a much larger advantage. He'll probably have an off like Ypres last year in the next few rallies. All guesses of course.

[Rallyest]

Disasterous for Lancia as it is, but as i understand Loebs season is over, maybe this will free some time for a wrc start maybe? (dreaming big i know) but it may be a possibility?

[Eli]

Disasterous for Lancia as it is, but as i understand Loebs season is over, maybe this will free some time for a wrc start maybe? (dreaming big i know) but it may be a possibility?

Probably won’t as long as Tänak is there, I presume.

[bomber21]

I was thinking about the current WRC situation. Fans complain, no new manufacturers are interested, popularity is low in social media etc

I reached the conclusion that rallying in general is a great sport to watch from close, to be on the mountains and witness the spectacle and the sound BUT it is not so exciting to watchf from TV/phone/tablet.
And unfortunately, we live in the social media era, and this is a problem (the promoter must solve).

What is your opinion on this?

[AndersX]

I was thinking about the current WRC situation. Fans complain, no new manufacturers are interested, popularity is low in social media etc

I reached the conclusion that rallying in general is a great sport to watch from close, to be on the mountains and witness the spectacle and the sound BUT it is not so exciting to watchf from TV/phone/tablet.
And unfortunately, we live in the social media era, and this is a problem (the promoter must solve).

What is your opinion on this?

I am long time rally fan, since ealry 80th in one or other form of intensity and interest level. Excitement, personalities, nice cars.... there are plenty of issues. But the main thing - it had become too corporate, rounded, predictable, especially through the screen (as mentioned above). There is no fix to it, just turning some tides and directions to try smth new. Rallying is not F1 with all those set-formats; allow freedom to organizers, work to create real competition, look for new and interesting ideas rotate rallies to get new territories.

[skarderud]

Several wiews on this.

The cars: todays cars is insane, both in speed, spectacle, and price.
To few teams, cars and drivers, no privaters, no talents got seats.
This ruleset kills the sport, its not working at all. People wants competition, someone they can sheer on. Its hard to say, but its not like that these days.

A Rally2 based championship going to be much nicer, if FIA also open for private team can build new models, we are back to the fantastic Gr.A times again.
Of course the factoryteams going to have the egde, but some local heros and real talents has a possibility to shake things up.

Social media: its just matter of time before the rush for social media is over.
Its already quite visible that its going downwards, my kids hardly use it anymore (17 & 20 yrs) tiktok is for dancing 12yrs girls, no serious provider bother of using this kind of SoMe.
Facebook and Instagram can stil be used to "spread the word", but i think the only solution is good and easy to find websites with free stuff, not everything of course, but enough that new fans find it and can discover it without the need to pay.

And, the most important, get it on television again. Lots of people use that plattform, but as streaming via a "smart" solution.

Why not a "drive to survive" kind of consept on some streaming-plattform? And ofcourse the races on the same plattform.
Use YouTube to gather interest, some good sum-up videos from the races, background stories etc.

If you have a Rally2 based championship, both the regulars and the talents/local heroes is in the show, build up the exitment before the races with good stories, easier for the upcoming drivers to get sponsors, since they get visible "on air", present the local heroes and up&coming drivers so people get to know them proper before races, etc

Still keep the WRC+ plattform, but use all the other mentioned above to gather interest and new users/fans.

Maybe also get rid of the manufacturer rules, thats not helping the sport.


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[doubled1978]

[QUOTE=skarderud;1329636]Several wiews on this.

The cars: todays cars is insane, both in speed, spectacle, and price.
To few teams, cars and drivers, no privaters, no talents got seats.
This ruleset kills the sport, its not working at all. People wants competition, someone they can sheer on. Its hard to say, but its not like that these days.

A Rally2 based championship going to be much nicer, if FIA also open for private team can build new models, we are back to the fantastic Gr.A times again.
Of course the factoryteams going to have the egde, but some local heros and real talents has a possibility to shake things up.

Social media: its just matter of time before the rush for social media is over.
Its already quite visible that its going downwards, my kids hardly use it anymore (17 & 20 yrs) tiktok is for dancing 12yrs girls, no serious provider bother of using this kind of SoMe.
Facebook and Instagram can stil be used to "spread the word", but i think the only solution is good and easy to find websites with free stuff, not everything of course, but enough that new fans find it and can discover it without the need to pay.

And, the most important, get it on television again. Lots of people use that plattform, but as streaming via a "smart" solution.

Why not a "drive to survive" kind of consept on some streaming-plattform? And ofcourse the races on the same plattform.
Use YouTube to gather interest, some good sum-up videos from the races, background stories etc.

If you have a Rally2 based championship, both the regulars and the talents/local heroes is in the show, build up the exitment before the races with good stories, easier for the upcoming drivers to get sponsors, since they get visible "on air", present the local heroes and up&coming drivers so people get to know them proper before races, etc

Still keep the WRC+ plattform, but use all the other mentioned above to gather interest and new users/fans.

Maybe also get rid of the manufacturer rules, thats not helping the sport.


I agree with most of this.

With the penalty for Tanak this rally started with 4/5 competitive cars in Rally1, that is useless for driving the sport forward. Even though 8 Rally1 cars were entered, 2 of them are currently a waste of seat and Suninen was first time in the car.

Rally2 (or similar) rule set would work, the quality/depth of the field would increase dramatically and it would be possible to run a semi-factory privately backed team with a possibility to compete.

Not sure about the Drive to Survive style programme, I think they need to get the championship back on track first before that kind of thing will become popular.

[Corcaíoch]

I was thinking about the current WRC situation. Fans complain, no new manufacturers are interested, popularity is low in social media etc

I reached the conclusion that rallying in general is a great sport to watch from close, to be on the mountains and witness the spectacle and the sound BUT it is not so exciting to watchf from TV/phone/tablet.
And unfortunately, we live in the social media era, and this is a problem (the promoter must solve).

What is your opinion on this?

I think the "promoter" is failing miserably at doing that. Although there are unquestionably far bigger issues to deal with, just a thought with regards social media and spreading visibilty of the WRC. A simple enough way of trying to improve social media would be to make use of fan recorded clips in my opinion.

Here in Ireland there is a competition on a lot of rallies where fans send in there own recorded videos and the most viewed clip wins rally merchandise. Fans capture far more of the action than the official footage does and it certainly helps spread the most exciting moments to a wider audience. Also all the videos are in the one place so easy to find so you almost inevitably watch many clips instead of just one or two.
If the WRC had something like that to help bring videos like those below together and spread them to a wider audience I think it would do more for the promotion of the sport than some of the rather repetive and almost sterile coverage that is used. Just the sound of the cars and spectator reactions beats the commentary almost every time on short videos like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VkVb66ZgN8
https://twitter.com/paddocknews/status/1682401322761347076

[SubaruNorway]

Rally2 for more competition and all that is good, but for the spectacle it's not good enough in my opinion.
I thought it would be better at the ERC event in Sweden than what it was.
I probably won't travel to watch an event further away with only Rally2, it's like watching a Norwegian event just 8-10 fast cars compared to 4-5

[dimviii]

Markus Ippach ����������
@ma_ipp
·
6h
#WRC fun facts: if Ogier wouldn't take part in the season...
Kalle would be at 188 points (+18)
Evans 126 (+11)
Neuville 123 (+11)
Tänak 112 (+8)
Lappi 93 (+6)
Sordo 51 (+5)
Taka 50 (+9)
Loubet 32 (+4)

[Jewy46]

Rally2 for more competition and all that is good, but for the spectacle it's not good enough in my opinion.
I thought it would be better at the ERC event in Sweden than what it was.
I probably won't travel to watch an event further away with only Rally2, it's like watching a Norwegian event just 8-10 fast cars compared to 4-5

I tend to agree with you about Rally2. There's 16 of us travelling to Finland next week and I don't think I or some of the rest would go that far to see the event if it was Rally2 only, they are not fast/spectacular/loud enough.
Just my opinion.

[skarderud]

I tend to disagree about the spectacle.
Cars driven at 100%, or even slightly over, are fun to watch. If its a Rally1, Rally2, or a Volvo PV from 1959 i dont care, its fun.
But, to see whatever car driven at 80% is dull, if its a WRC or not.
Maybe some real classics is ok at slower speed, if its the right car:)

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[EstWRC]

Seems you haven’t been to a wrc round to compare the two classes

Wrc2 is boring as hell compared to rally1 even when Solberg, Mikkelsen etc top drivers come past me

It would be dull as main class

[240RS]

Talking of the spectacle and drivers, this year has brought to the fore interesting live observations.

If you want to gasp and be astounded, watch Kalle, Ogier, Ott, Thierry and Lappi. They are pedal-to-the-metal, wherever possible, with some superb lines. Worth travelling to watch that lot.

Evans and Sordo are quick without necessarily standing out. Loubet and Katsuta are very hesitant, clearly not confident. They are lifting where others flat-out. Not hard to work out where they are losing.

[ictus]

Seems you haven’t been to a wrc round to compare the two classes

Wrc2 is boring as hell compared to rally1 even when Solberg, Mikkelsen etc top drivers come past me

It would be dull as main class

It's dull because you have the comparison, and the faster cars go first...
And the other thing is the drivers as you mentioned... Solberg and Mikkelsen are "top drivers" but in WRC2... if you but TOP drivers in wrc2 the spectacle will be fine ;)

[skarderud]

Seems you haven’t been to a wrc round to compare the two classes

Wrc2 is boring as hell compared to rally1 even when Solberg, Mikkelsen etc top drivers come past me

It would be dull as main classBeen in sweden, yes.

Of course its a difference, when you get these cars directly after each other, but if you don't have the faster car before, you won't feel the rally2 as slow. Its not slow.
But, of course, with a top driver at full send in it.

Its also easy to see at TV that the hybrid is faster than Rally2, but would you actually think about it if the Rally2s are top class, and the Rally3's comes after? No, i don't think so.

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[doubled1978]

We’ve been here before.
Group A was rubbish when we had Group B, when there was no more Group B it was fine. Sure the Group A cars evolved quite a bit from the start of 1987 to the end of even 1988, but those cars were slower than a modern Rally 2 car is.

I’m pretty sure the same will be the case now, take away the Rally 1 cars, give the Rally 2 a bit more power and sound so they rev out a bit more and all will be fine, you won’t even think about it a year down the line.

[AndersX]

We’ve been here before.
Group A was rubbish when we had Group B, when there was no more Group B it was fine. Sure the Group A cars evolved quite a bit from the start of 1987 to the end of even 1988, but those cars were slower than a modern Rally 2 car is.

I’m pretty sure the same will be the case now, take away the Rally 1 cars, give the Rally 2 a bit more power and sound so they rev out a bit more and all will be fine, you won’t even think about it a year down the line.

Exactly!

[skarderud]

A Rally2 car is much faster that a early 2000's WRCar, its quite long time ago some finish guy (sunninen?) drove John Hauglands testroad in a Škoda R5 40 sek faster than Colin McRae in a Focus WRC.
They use around 5min on this particular road.

Is it just the sound that makes the old WRC feel faster, or are there the change of drivingteqnic with less oversteer style that makes it like this?

Or is it just us old farts wishing in to be faster?;)

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

The noise, the lack of of big aero and the fact many of the older cars were bigger saloons, made them seems more exciting. The drivers also threw them around a lot and were sideways more often.

[doubled1978]

A Rally2 car is much faster that a early 2000's WRCar, its quite long time ago some finish guy (sunninen?) drove John Hauglands testroad in a Škoda R5 40 sek faster than Colin McRae in a Focus WRC.
They use around 5min on this particular road.

Is it just the sound that makes the old WRC feel faster, or are there the change of drivingteqnic with less oversteer style that makes it like this?

Or is it just us old farts wishing in to be faster?;)

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The sound is a big part of it, and particularly back then with the Group A cars when they had the bigger restrictors. From 95 onwards they all sounded a bit rubbish because they didn’t rev. That didn’t change until 2011 when they went to the 1.6 engine cars.
Driving techniques probably a bit too, but if you have all the top guys driving Rally2 type cars, they will be pushing like hell and it will be spectacular, and there will be plenty of them.
My only concession would be to give them a bit more power and noise, I bet that can be achieved by allowing them to breathe a bit better alone.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Running 34mm restrictors is allowed in some UK Championships and this can make a big difference. One very average driver with this power won 3 stages on the BRC Jim Clark Rally vs Fourmaux.

[bomber21]

Make Rally2 the top class, give them bigger spoilers, improve the sound, use e-fuel and promote it as eco friendly.

And see what happens.

[Us44]

It seems that the 34mm restrictor can make a huge difference - https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/81362-7bet-gravel-fest-rally-lazdijai-2023/?s=427051

Vaidotas Žala was driving a R5 Skoda with a 34mm restrictor and in the end he was almost a minute faster than everyone else. He's a very fast driver, but I think that the 34mm restrictor also helped quite a bit and the competition was also not slow.

[meh]

Make Rally2 the top class, give them bigger spoilers, improve the sound, use e-fuel and promote it as eco friendly.

And see what happens.

Rally1 happens :)

[skarderud]

Rally1 happens :)Rally1 is a dead horse. Quit whip it.

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[seb_sh]

Group A was spectacular because of the noise and driving style, even if technically the cars were a step down from Group B or WRC that followed. Besides power and aero I think a lot of the spectacle is due to suspension and tyres. Since Group A there was a lot of development in that area so cars run much smoother and look less dramatic. I've been watching Passats de Canto videos on youtube lately, they upload a lot of Group A stuff and it's quite fun to see them slide around on gravel and bounce quite visibly on tarmac.

Unfortunately it seems the WRC is missing the point once again, the product itself is not the issue, maybe some small tweaks to the format can be done but I will say it again the main issue is lack of top level cars. In Estonia there were only 8 at the start but we were lucky nobody had major issues so there was something to follow for most of the rally. Just to take some example, if Evans had a puncture and Loubet took a wheel off again then Hyundai would have told Neuville and Lappi to hold position and there would be no fight to follow. I think if there would be around 15 top class cars starting the event a lot of the issues would be resolved by the increased competition. Maybe 1 or 2 would be pay drivers and always be at the rear but I'm pretty sure there are enough interesting drivers to make a more interesting lineup. Another advantage is youngsters get more seat time in the top cars. As several have mentioned recently it's a big step and if only a few drivers are in those cars it's very hard for someone new to step up and so the chance of having someone dominate is increased in my opinion.

[Managarium]

So today I've grabbed a local croatian car magazine.
There was an subject of salaries in motorsport.

najplaćeniji = most payed

milijuna = millions

They are talking in €

https://i.postimg.cc/MThCMdQj/viber-slika-2023-08-01-17-53-06-303.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qhxbWcQk)

[bomber21]

I highly doubt.

[ouvreur]

Yeah, I don't think that has any basis in facts or reality, unfortunately.

[the sniper]

In the case of Loubet and Fourmaux, is it not more likely that's closer to being what they're paying for their drives...

[Jarek Z]

Subaru Motorsports USA unveils their new rally car. Driver Brandon Semenuk and co-driver Keaton Williams will pilot the car in its racing debut at Ojibwe Forests Rally on August 24-25. Extreme sport legend Travis Pastrana will join in a second car in the 2024 season.

I know this news is not related to WRC, but it's still good to see the engagement of the official manufacturer team in rallying in these hard times:
https://www.subaru.com/subaru-motorsports-usa/motorsports-news/20230802-subaru-motorsports-usa-unveils-all-new-wrx-rally-car-and-announces-driver-travis-pastranas-return-to-the-ara-series-for-the-2024-season.html

[Rallyest]

I dont know if this has been discussed here already, but to me next logical move from Oliver would be Toyotas Rally2 next season if they want him and he is interested, and maybe 1-2 good season with the car and then maybe some yaris rally1 drives?

[mknight]

I dont know if this has been discussed here already, but to me next logical move from Oliver would be Toyotas Rally2 next season if they want him and he is interested, and maybe 1-2 good season with the car and then maybe some yaris rally1 drives?

Yes, maybe even a Rally1 outing or two next year.

But the big question is whether Toyota pick Pajari instead.

Solberg's main issue has been getting to finish. It looked like he improved until Sardinia, but Sardinia (multiple issues, not just the first one) and Estonia were a stepback again.
Pajari seems much more reliable already and is coming up in speed.

It almost seems that Pajari is already set for Toyota so the question is whether Toyota will try to get both.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230809/ef1b7205cf63ae2474388a5bddaef064.jpg

[Rallyper]

Today at 1300 CEST they launch "rally TV". Who are they? Is it same people as WRC All Live or what? I´m confused...

[seb_sh]

Today at 1300 CEST they launch "rally TV". Who are they? Is it same people as WRC All Live or what? I´m confused...

I hope I am wrong but I think it's a nothingburger. I assume it's the same people same technology but put together on a single website for all 3 series they cover

[flat_right]

Then if you compare to other world champions such as Ott Tänak and Sébastien Ogier, Kalle doesn't have to be a d*ck at any point, in a way. He doesn't shout in that team or demand things by yelling or bark at people, or anything like that which the aforementioned have done, current Hyundai driver Lappi loads.

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000009782690.html

[Jakem]

Then if you compare to other world champions such as Ott Tänak and Sébastien Ogier, Kalle doesn't have to be a d*ck at any point, in a way. He doesn't shout in that team or demand things by yelling or bark at people, or anything like that which the aforementioned have done, current Hyundai driver Lappi loads.

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000009782690.html

Looks like Ogier and Tanak will go to Hyundai next year ;)

[skarderud]

Sad news from sweden, a driver killed in a national rally.
Its the 5th(?) death this year in european rally, is it just unluck, or is it anything fundamental with rules, safety or just speed?

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[Gregor-y]

A codriver was killed last month in the US, as well. At a time when safety has take a big jump forward with pods that track each car's location, register shocks from a collision and set off an emergency transponder if it is not manually triggered or overridden. I've seen more emergencies on stages in two years than the last fifteen, and they've all been serious enough to need ambulances.

[240RS]

Always sad to hear the loss of life on a rally.

Today, the greatest factor has to be speed and the shorter distances covered. Decades ago, it was rare to hear of big crashes on local events. Partly because the cars weren't on the same level, partly because the stages were longer and intensity lower. Curiously, the safety measures are so much better today!!!!

[bomber21]

Nice video from a Greek Youtuber who loves cars and got the chance to co-drive for Loubet in Acropolis Rally stages (during the test sessions that happen these days)

https://youtu.be/cZy4voPA2KA?si=TfxsuOGIpL1cHijf

[Rallyper]

Sad news from sweden, a driver killed in a national rally.
Its the 5th(?) death this year in european rally, is it just unluck, or is it anything fundamental with rules, safety or just speed?

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Speed, speed, speed. I´ve been telling this for ages. It´s maybe time to get back on "square one". At least on national basis. Anyone can buy a monster even though they can´t drive.

[lmmjvss]

Hmm only 6 entries for the W2RC race in Argentina. Dakar keeps atracting brands but the general championship has also been held by Toyota, basically. 5 of the 6 cars were Hilux. I guess we could start thinking on HOW TO MAKE Rally Monte Carlo bigger, to atract new teams, manufacturers and drivers, even if its just for one-offs. It would be really important for WRC as a whole, eh?

[the sniper]

Hmm only 6 entries for the W2RC race in Argentina. Dakar keeps atracting brands but the general championship has also been held by Toyota, basically. 5 of the 6 cars were Hilux. I guess we could start thinking on HOW TO MAKE Rally Monte Carlo bigger, to atract new teams, manufacturers and drivers, even if its just for one-offs. It would be really important for WRC as a whole, eh?

Sorry, Dave Richards killed the concept of unique 'Events' and for some reason pretty much everyone involved in the WRC since has committed to the marriage with the cloverleaf, cookie cutter formula, until death do them part...

[AndyRAC]

Sorry, Dave Richards killed the concept of unique 'Events' and for some reason pretty much everyone involved in the WRC since has committed to the marriage with the cloverleaf, cookie cutter formula, until death do them part...

I've often joked that if they ran the WEC, they'd want Le Mans run entirely over one weekend; practice, qualifying, and a 6 Hour race, like most of the other races........Unique events do work, we see it in other disciplines, but WRC only seems to look at the F1 model which is a poor example.

[lmmjvss]

Interesting!
Yes, maybe WRC could have Monte Carlo as opem event. Like "4wd open, 2wd open". Maybe an electric class open? And run it. You crown these winners but pay point for the rally1,2,3 entries only for the overall championship. Like.. Pastrana wins monte carlo on that gymkhana Subaru. The first rally1 car (lets say Kalle) finished P2. Pastrana won the event, but Kalle gets the points for the victory in the Championship. Something like that.

I'd also go for at least two rally sprint on the calendar and two "enduro" rounds too. Need these stuff

[Jarek Z]

Official video with Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaT2MnkYd4

[Managarium]

So this weekend was Kumrovec rally in Croatia. Some stages and parts of some stages were used as sunday stages on Croatia Rally.

Without further redue, drunk civilian car driver stole the show.

Video is here https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/video-pijan-probio-traku-upao-na-rally-u-kumrovcu-skoro-se-zabio-u-natjecatelja/2494171.aspx

Statement by the Organizing Committee is here https://www.facebook.com/rally.kumrovec/posts/750693593736766?ref=embed_post

[satnav]

There was a similar incident in a rally in Finland this weekend, Teemu posted on Twitter

https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/1700573206208225588?s=20

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What’s it like inside a WRC service area ?


EVO is a fly on the wall inside the Toyota Gazoo Racing team at the 2023 Acropolis Rally Greece

https://www.evo.co.uk/rallying/206123/whats-it-like-inside-a-wrc-service-area

[Humber]

Paddon driving the 700 horsepower Hyundai i20 at NZ's Ashley Forest Rallysprint, this weekend 16/17 September.

Livestream could be European insomniac time schedule. https://www.facebook.com/thepitstv and pits tv youtube.

[MartijnS]

Funny: https://twitter.com/TakamotoKatsuta/status/1701954989072036290 :D

[Humber]

Paddon below one minute on the first run, at Ashley Forest Rallysprint. About an hour in for Paddon's run.

https://www.youtube.com/live/UGFHRwA0-mY?si=yeRjnikT5WU8Xh4A

[Sal yet again]

https://www.rallylegend.com/en/2023/09/25/hyundai-at-rallylegend-with-dani-sordo/

Sordo to drive an i20 Coupe WRC at RallyLegend

[Humber]

Paddon considering a run for the Australian Rally Championship in 2024.

[240RS]

We are in a lull of sorts, and its probably best to look at some weird facts for the year so far:

1. Generally, 2023 has been viewed as a terrible year for M-Sport Ford; yet they have won twice as many events as Hyundai!!!!
2. The driver with the most wins this year is a part-timer - Seb Ogier. For the record, championship leader Kalle Rovanpera has won as many.
3. Only eleven drivers have scored power stage points. Of those, one was a team principal on a one-off drive and, sadly, another is no longer with us.
4. Oliver Solberg is the highest ranked non-Rally1 driver overall. But he has contested more events than most top Rally2 protagonists. Incidentally, Oliver has more points to his name than Pierre-Louis Loubet.

[Sal yet again]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnaTUQ2UdMA

First night action from RallyLegend with Latvala in the Yaris Rally 1 amongst others

[Humber]

Paddon driving a Porsche GT3 at the Highlands 6 hour today.

Outside NZ and Aus coverage is on Motorsport-tv.

https://motorsport.tv/highlands-6-hour-enduro/video/highlands-6-hour-enduro-saturday/189992

[lmmjvss]

Just me or videos like this are awesome for a rally fan to watch? https://youtu.be/lise16NPcwA?feature=shared

[Duvel]

Just me or videos like this are awesome for a rally fan to watch? https://youtu.be/lise16NPcwA?feature=shared

Nice video indeed!
Reminds me of the Henning Solberg vs bobsleigh race..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RSn7OyBdhM

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

https://twitter.com/peugeotsport/status/1721230947222188521?t=jchXgSfm3fdC6qn_do8ikw&s=19

RIP

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

I will always remember this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLq2IRf2hGM

[skarderud]

Nice video indeed!
Reminds me of the Henning Solberg vs bobsleigh race..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RSn7OyBdhMI was one of 3 bobpilots in that clip, it was close to 60 runs in two days, noone can do that amount of runs in a bobsleigh.
My record is 13, normaly WC pilots do 6-8 runs a day.
Arnfinn, the "offical" pilot attended both olympics in Nagano and Salt Lake.

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[WRCStan]

After the meeting with the drivers, Petter Solberg reported 82 ideas to improve the championship.

That's more than this forum. :D

[Rallyper]

What meeting?

[seb_sh]

After the meeting with the drivers, Petter Solberg reported 82 ideas to improve the championship.

That's more than this forum. :D

link?

we're slacking :D

[WRCStan]

What meeting?

The meeting called for drivers to have input after Thierry took to Twitter.


link?

we're slacking :D

FIA rally newsletter. I've no idea where it is on the web but I expect the usuals will gather some more quotes and publish next few days. Only suggestions mentioned was to have toilet and bin stops in the roadbook and bigger service area for WRC2 teams.

[Jarek Z]

Former WRC driver Lorenzo Bertelli finally wins something!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/83668-rally-del-brunello-2023/

[the sniper]

Former WRC driver Lorenzo Bertelli finally wins something!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/83668-rally-del-brunello-2023/

His mother will be proud...

[fiscorpun]

French Winter Series "Tropee Andros" is shutting down after 2024.
Its funny cuz people are blaming the shift to EVs 2 years ago but its actually because theres no more ice to keep the tracks! This is so sad, we have been seeing similar stuff starting in Rally Sweden and even Monte Carlo.
Last 2 years some of the Tropee Andros were basically wet tracks cuz the ice was gone. They have been canceling rounds for 3 years already because such thing. Thats REALLY sad. It was such a fun thing to watch during December/January, when motorsport is basically non existent.

[240RS]

The R.A.C Rally currently taking place brought to the fore one nostalgic memory for me - Large DOOR numbers.

We have debated this here in the past, but how I wish the FIA seriously considered bringing them back.

[lmmjvss]

BAJA 1000 is done... Its crazy to watch some of the onboards! There are so many fans watching the race from the side of the track. Some of them even go basically INSIDE the track like WRC in the 80s. They go 100kmh on the start, but in the desert is race speed. They reach almost 200kmh at some point. This is insane.
I love these stuff. SCORE (the name of that championship with the Bajas rounds) are missing such an oportunity by not having 40min highlights anymore. They used to have those. It was great!
ANyway, this onboard is cool to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyKJlJGmjeI
Bryce Menzies also had a great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-38QNgB2cbE
Someone on the track filming the Big Trucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtsfjzWPD48

Not sure whats the level of interest from you fellas here

[Rallyper]

BAJA 1000 is done... Its crazy to watch some of the onboards! There are so many fans watching the race from the side of the track. Some of them even go basically INSIDE the track like WRC in the 80s. They go 100kmh on the start, but in the desert is race speed. They reach almost 200kmh at some point. This is insane.
I love these stuff. SCORE (the name of that championship with the Bajas rounds) are missing such an oportunity by not having 40min highlights anymore. They used to have those. It was great!
ANyway, this onboard is cool to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyKJlJGmjeI
Bryce Menzies also had a great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-38QNgB2cbE
Someone on the track filming the Big Trucks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtsfjzWPD48

Not sure whats the level of interest from you fellas here

How many spectators are killed?

[lmmjvss]

How many spectators are killed?

I guess none. I remember 2016 had one casuality, I guees two fans died in ´18... but I imagine theres more if you dig on that. But heyyy, its America. They are free to choose if they want to die or not haha

[Rallyper]

I guess none. I remember 2016 had one casuality, I guees two fans died in ´18... but I imagine theres more if you dig on that. But heyyy, its America. They are free to choose if they want to die or not haha

Well... looks beyond limits...

[Jarek Z]

Not sure whats the level of interest from you fellas here

I have never met anybody who was interested in it. Here in Europe we only know the name Baja, but not much more. But those cars look impressive!

[Jarek Z]

I was once wondering why there is a Lancia Delta called Baja:
https://pixarcars.pl/lancia-delta-integrale-baja-blazers-610
and never found the answer! :)

[WRCStan]

I have never met anybody who was interested in it. Here in Europe we only know the name Baja, but not much more. But those cars look impressive!

I guess an interest in trucks and great expanses of open country help, inversely we here all know and love a little hatchback and have roads leading to almost every square kilometre on the continent. However, there's nothing in these videos that doesn't look it'll stump a Rally1, so what makes it off-roading? They are all following the same course which is worn like something from Kenya or Sardinia.

An FIA system Baja will be a rally, but the one that gave them the name, the Baja 1000, is a race not a rally, and SCORE is not a FIA member associate.

[Rallyper]

I was once wondering why there is a Lancia Delta called Baja:
https://pixarcars.pl/lancia-delta-integrale-baja-blazers-610
and never found the answer! :)

I remember back in the 60´s Saab factory team was competing in Baja 1000. If I´m correct they won their class, or maybe even overall.

[Jarek Z]

I remember back in the 60´s Saab factory team was competing in Baja 1000. If I´m correct they won their class, or maybe even overall.

It is probably this story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWgEvYM5Jo

[Rallyper]

It is probably this story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWgEvYM5Jo

Aahh. You see. My memory still works. :) :)

1969 then. White Saab, better in the warmth. Simo Lampinen would like the colour.

[240RS]

Nicky Grist and Juha Kankkunen put together a rather interesting chat recently.

Quite revealing to hear them say they were shocked to pull away from Colin McRae at a Super Special with ease.

https://youtu.be/hQJ5Hsz6AAI?si=kcgFiYY5XBsbFo_A

[seb_sh]

Nicky Grist and Juha Kankkunen put together a rather interesting chat recently.

Quite revealing to hear them say they were shocked to pull away from Colin McRae at a Super Special with ease.

https://youtu.be/hQJ5Hsz6AAI?si=kcgFiYY5XBsbFo_A

enjoyed watching that, thanks!

[Eli]

I was wondering, watching the highlights of both the 2007 & 2009 editions of Rally Ireland, why did it fail? how come we never saw it again on the calendar and is there any chance Bobby Willis will succeed in bringing it back in one way or another to the calendar? It looks like it could be a unique tarmac event imho.

[Tauri_J]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ICyqRwmDU&ab_channel=MatteoRaggi-VBB

[NaBUru38]

The president of Paraguay received WRC representatives to host a 2025 race in Encarnación, Itapúa Department.

https://www.motorpy.com/revive-el-sueno-del-arribo-del-wrc-a-paraguay/

[EstWRC]

Abiteboul said: “What I regret is that we don’t have the structure of discussion to talk these things through, and being able to share and express opinions, and being able to form a consensus.

“We don’t have that [in WRC], but in Formula 1 we do have that. We’ve got lots of opportunities to talk to the FIA, the promoter. We may agree, disagree, and get to some sort of conclusion. We try things out, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail. But at least it’s a moving thing.

The Hyundai team principal reflected on the specific situation from that day in Japan as the perfect proof of his point.

“We want to see beautiful cars in extreme conditions,” he said. “But we would like to [actually] see them. Because frankly this morning (Friday) there was not much to see, the [live video] coverage was not excellent, there were not that many cameras around the road. I think that was poor.


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-fear-abiteboul-feels-is-crippling-the-wrc/

[bomber21]

We want to see the cars also from close not only in the TV….

I am saying this because in the last rallies I watched from close, spectator places were 30+ meters away from the cars and I almost needed binoculars to see…

This ruined my experience and made me not want to go abroad to see WRC anymore.

[AndyRAC]

Abiteboul said: “What I regret is that we don’t have the structure of discussion to talk these things through, and being able to share and express opinions, and being able to form a consensus.

“We don’t have that [in WRC], but in Formula 1 we do have that. We’ve got lots of opportunities to talk to the FIA, the promoter. We may agree, disagree, and get to some sort of conclusion. We try things out, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail. But at least it’s a moving thing.

The Hyundai team principal reflected on the specific situation from that day in Japan as the perfect proof of his point.

“We want to see beautiful cars in extreme conditions,” he said. “But we would like to [actually] see them. Because frankly this morning (Friday) there was not much to see, the [live video] coverage was not excellent, there were not that many cameras around the road. I think that was poor.


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-fear-abiteboul-feels-is-crippling-the-wrc/

F1 is NOT the series to take ideas from - we've already done that - and it didn't work. MotoGP seems to copy F1, and not for the better......

[NaBUru38]

I'm not too wel informed, but did the zero and double zero cars have no issues on that stage?


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-fear-abiteboul-feels-is-crippling-the-wrc/

"So, the last rally of the year was decided and determined at 8.30 on Friday morning, on the other end of the world?"

Well, it's this end of the world for Toyota and Hyundai...

[Mirek]

F1 is NOT the series to take ideas from - we've already done that - and it didn't work. MotoGP seems to copy F1, and not for the better......

He was calling for a common regular forum where the teams, the promotor, the organizers and the FIA can discuss important matters. He didn't mention anything else from F1. You shall read the text instead of immediately refuse it just because you saw someone mentioning an F1.

[240RS]

Lancia and Audi's 1983 Monte duel has inspired a new movie:
https://youtu.be/EDjImq6gI1A?si=BJH3botI_ny_Krc-

[HKSjbg]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/vote-for-your-favorite-wrc-rally-ever/

I was hoping this would be instance-specific, in which case I would have voted for the 1993 RAC Rally. As it stands, I don’t know whether to vote for RAC/GB thrice or vote my genuine favourite three (NZ and Monte) :D

[fiscorpun]

Lancia and Audi's 1983 Monte duel has inspired a new movie:
https://youtu.be/EDjImq6gI1A?si=BJH3botI_ny_Krc-


OH... "Niki Lauda" doing rallyes too. What a driver!

[seb_sh]

Such a nice clip
https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1734882623799845176?t=6EKw-1k6ga4HnwUbcNaNrQ&s=19

[Eli]

Such a nice clip
https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/1734882623799845176?t=6EKw-1k6ga4HnwUbcNaNrQ&s=19

Still sad to see him there and know he's not around anymore :(

[seb_sh]

Don't know if this was posted before, I only saw it today, nice interview with Nicky Grist, among others tells the story of him and McRae at Skoda in Australia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMBJg4nJLo