HRT not featured in the official FIA entry list of teams for 2013

[CNR]

Formula 1 could feature 11 teams next season after struggling Spanish-based HRT
were not included on the official entry document for 2013.
The 22-car list was published by the FIA (http://www.fia.com/news/fia-2013-formula-one-world-championship-entry-list) following Friday's deadline for teams to
pay their entry fees.

The team was founded by Spanish ex-Formula 1 driver Adrian Campos in 2010,
but have not scored a point in their three-season existence.

[truefan72]

this failure falls squarely on the shoulders of max mosley in my book
that is 2 out of 4 teams that failed in F! from his "selection" process..I mean blackmail

if they had prodrive in there, they would still be around
if they had vetted both HRT and USF1 properly they would have seen the gaping holes in both teams, but mosley was more interested in politics and fota than the good of the sport
we were promised a 26 card grid and three years later we are down to 22.

shame on bernie, shame on todt, shame on the fIA for their absurd entry fees and political nonsense that has now denied us with a good sized grid

[gloomyDAY]

Good riddance! F1 doesn't need any cucumbers that just meander around the track.


this failure falls squarely on the shoulders of max mosley in my book
that is 2 out of 4 teams that failed in F! from his "selection" process..I mean blackmailYep! Teams couldn't even get on the grid without signing a contract with Cosworth as an engine supplier. I'm still not sure as to why customer cars were given such a bad rep. If Williams didn't throw a hissy fit, there'd be a grid full of competitive cars.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I won't miss them. If nothing else, just for removing that Indian idiot I applaude their demise. He nearly killed Rosberg because they were running parts past their servicable life and he just got in the way of people whenever a chance presented itself. Another Jean-Deniz Deletraz removed from F1 history - good ridance...

[truefan72]

Good riddance! F1 doesn't need any cucumbers that just meander around the track.
exactly, I will not miss HRT, just lamenting the lack of extra cars on the grid.


Yep! Teams couldn't even get on the grid without signing a contract with Cosworth as an engine supplier. I'm still not sure as to why customer cars were given such a bad rep. If Williams didn't throw a hissy fit, there'd be a grid full of competitive cars.

:up:
and now teams have so called strong partnerships with bigger teams whihc are basically customer cars, or have major components handed down to them anyway

Ferrari - Sauber
Mclaren - Force India & Marussia
Mercedes - Force India
Red Bull - STR
Renault/Genii - Caterham

and then what happened to the 13th entry that never materialized?
I'm pretty sure that at least 2 GP2 teams would have done a better job than HRT

what a mess, we have.

[truefan72]

I won't miss them. If nothing else, just for removing that Indian idiot I applaude their demise. He nearly killed Rosberg because they were running parts past their servicable life and he just got in the way of people whenever a chance presented itself. Another Jean-Deniz Deletraz removed from F1 history - good ridance...

wow, tell us how you really feel
your only purpose on this forum seems nationalistic in its entire existence
so, its off to the ignore list.

[dj_bytedisaster]

you're welcome. One fanboi less, I don't think I'm gonna cry...

[kfzmeister]

Sorry to see them go. HRT or not, to simply get an F1 car to fire up is admirable. I've read that there are a lot of people without jobs now. Backmarkers belong in F1. Part of the racing. To simply dismiss them as an annoyance is really short sighted.
Even one team off the grid is a loss for F1. Perhaps someone may still make the purchase. I've read that they might still an extension to sign on with a new buyer.

[kfzmeister]

good ridance...

Do i remember you criticizing my spelling in the past?? Lol :D

[zako85]

this failure falls squarely on the shoulders of max mosley in my book
that is 2 out of 4 teams that failed in F! from his "selection" process..I mean blackmail


Nah. It's just another year in F1. Nothing to see here guys. Move on to the next thread..

[zako85]

exactly, I will not miss HRT, just lamenting the lack of extra cars on the grid.



:up:
and now teams have so called strong partnerships with bigger teams whihc are basically customer cars, or have major components handed down to them anyway

Ferrari - Sauber
Mclaren - Force India & Marussia
Mercedes - Force India
Red Bull - STR

According to news I have read, one interesting thing that will likely happen in 2014 is that Force India will switch to Ferrari engines because of the cost of Mercedes engine. So much for the strong partnership with McLaren..

On the other hand STR will switch to a Renault engine in order to be able to share more drivetrain related tech with RBR. The net loser is Mercedes who will have one less Mercedes powered car on the grid.


I really wonder how HRT's demise will affect Cosworth. It's hard to design a new F1 engine with only on customer taking interest in it (Marussia).

[F1boat]

I won't miss them. If nothing else, just for removing that Indian idiot I applaude their demise. He nearly killed Rosberg because they were running parts past their servicable life and he just got in the way of people whenever a chance presented itself. Another Jean-Deniz Deletraz removed from F1 history - good ridance...

Bit harsh, but I won't miss HRT and Narain either. I think that a car that slow is dangerous for the other competitors.

[Dave B]

I'm sorry that there'll almost certainly be one less team on the grid, that much is sad, but HRT were becoming a joke. Both drivers, including the experienced Pedro de la Rosa, were mobile chicanes. I can only assume the car was so awful to drive that they simply didn't have the chance to look in their mirrors.

This will chuck a cat among the pigeons: I hear our deluded old friend Zoran Stefanovic has been sniffing around the carcass like a turd that just won't flush! :p

[Mark]

STR to Renault makes sense. Always thought it was odd the Red Bull B team running different engines.

[inimitablestoo]

One rather alarming consequence of HRT's demise - taking de la Rosa off the grid, along with the retiring Michael Schumacher - is that the current driver whose Grand Prix debut was the earliest now becomes...

Jenson Button! :eek:

[Mark]

Blimey! Don't realise how long he's been around as it was only really a factor from 2009 onwards.

[Nikki Katz]

I don't think that de la Rosa and Karthikeyan was a very strong lineup, and threatening to replace Karthikeyan with Ma next year would only make things worse (did he even have a superlicence?) But I would have liked 26 cars on the grid as it is, not down to 22. I would have liked even a backmarkery team to give a home to a couple of the drivers that deserve an F1 shot but can't due to lack of seats. HRT at times seemed as fast as Marussia, despite the budget gap.

I would have liked to see the return of customer cars too. I can see Williams' point of view over fairness, perhaps if a customer car team would receive less prize money. I still don't see why it's only the top 10 teams that receive anything, with the majority going to Ferrari, followed by whichever other team has made an underhand deal with the FIA. I would like all prize money to be split a little more evenly.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I would have liked even a backmarkery team to give a home to a couple of the drivers that deserve an F1 shot but can't due to lack of seats. HRT at times seemed as fast as Marussia, despite the budget gap.


All it would take was giving seats to people, who actually deserve it. Karthikeyan was unworthy of that seat. He was so slow, he made glaciers look good. That's a throwback to the times of Giovanni Lavaggi, Slowpoke Deletraz and Phillipe Adams. I think the Superlicense requirements should be reviewed. We have a 107% rule for qualifying but basically every bloke - no matter how inept he is - can buy his way into F1. That has to stop.
"Buying" a seat in itself is not the problem - Michael Schumacher started out as a pay-driver - Mercedes coughed up serious money for that Jordan seat at Spa 1991, but I think that even pay drivers should prove a certain level of eptitude - People like Deletraz, Lavaggi, Adams, Inuoe or Karthikeyan should never have made it to F1 on the ground of them being simply too slow.

[RS]

Karthikeyan wasn't good but he wasn't that bad.

Not particularly sad to lose HRT but sad that there will be one less team on the grid. It seems F1 really is too expensive when there are several drivers around with some talent AND money but no cars for them to drive.

[RS]

Karthikeyan wasn't good but he wasn't that bad.

Not particularly sad to lose HRT but sad that there will be one less team on the grid. It seems F1 really is too expensive when there are several drivers around with some talent AND money but no cars for them to drive.

[gloomyDAY]

I'm glad to see HRT gone. The last 3 teams to be added were on-track to fail from the moment they started in Australia. Look at how badly the odds were stacked against them! Max Mosley got his cut of the three teams when they were forced to use Cosworth engines. The "vetting process" was corrupt and inefficient. I can't believe so many people have already forgotten the USF1 fiasco.

The only team that can have some kind of relative success is Caterham. Tony Fernandes had to buy their way out of a stupid Cosworth contract, and then buy Renault engines as well. The only thing that's kept them from getting buried is Fernandes' pile of cash.

I bet the Soviets will fall by the wayside once the shockingly high price of the new V6 engines hits their bottom-line. F1 is just too expensive at the moment for the economic climate and since nobody has money in Spain as well, then good bye HRT!

[steveaki13]

I am sad to see a team leave F1 whoever they are, however its true HRT havent done a great job. I hope a couple of new teams join in the near future.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I am sad to see a team leave F1 whoever they are, however its true HRT havent done a great job. I hope a couple of new teams join in the near future.

We should just go with the customer cars concept. Why not simply hand this years Red Bull down to STR next year. Why not revive "Scuderia Italia" and let them run this years Ferrari chassis next year. That way we would have more fairly competative teams instead of having some hapless backmarkers trying to survive. Why shouldn't Force India for instance be allowed to buy the plans for this years McLaren?
But I guess the idea just makes too much sense to be adopted.

[N. Jones]

Bummer on HRT. I hope for 2014 we see new engine suppliers and teams. I would be more to enjoy and more variety, for watch F1 and for FGP.

[RS]

On the other hand a top football club will pay a transfer fee for one player probably equivalent to the entire budget for HRT for one season. I am curious as to why F1 is not attracting the sponsor cash when it does have a global reach and a pretty large fanbase.

[dj_bytedisaster]

On the other hand a top football club will pay a transfer fee for one player probably equivalent to the entire budget for HRT for one season. I am curious as to why F1 is not attracting the sponsor cash when it does have a global reach and a pretty large fanbase.

You can't compare football clubs to F1 teams. First of all, you don't have to pay millions just as an entry fee to the football league. Then you have the little fact that big clubs, like Real Madrid etc. spent much more money than they actually have. Clubs that operate on a solid economic base are rare. The clubs in the German Bundesliga are forced to work solidly due to the extremely harsh license requirements - be in debt too much and you're out. As a result of this, most clubs are rather healthy economically, but you won't see the likes of Ronaldo or Messi playing for a German club, simply because it wouldn't be possible to pay ridiculous transfer fees and astronomical salaries and still meet the license requirement.

Then there's the fact that - even though it is a team sport - in football many things revolve around individual players. Take the Messi's Ronaldo's and Xabi Alonso's out of the Spanish leagues and you'll see sponsorship money plummeting. In F1 it is for obvious reasons not quite as clear cut. You'd have to be completely divorced from reality, not to admit that Alonso and Hamilton have been sublime this year - yet both of them didn't win, because one was missing a competitive car and one was missing a competitive team.
If Messi is sublime, it would take a lot of things to stop him from scoring a goal - an inspired goalie, a rock-solid defense and a lot of fouls and he still would score in most cases. In F1, if only one aspect doesn't work out, all the driving talent in the world will be nixed. That makes sponsorship in F1 a much riskier deal than investing in a football team. At least that's how I would see it if I had 50 million and no idea what to spend them on.

[The Black Knight]

Not going to miss HRT one bit. They were a nothing team that never contributed anything to the sport. They never even looked like they were going to get anywhere and this seemed pretty obvious from the start.

[MikeD]

I won't miss them. If nothing else, just for removing that Indian idiot

:lol: how on earth did he ever get an F1 license ...

Anyway HRT has nothing to do in F1 - they are simply not up to the standard of the leading class in Formula racing. I am leaning on saying the same about Marussia and Caterham. All 3 teams have had 3 years in F1 and none of them have managed to score a single point. That's beyond pathetic...

[MikeD]

Karthikeyan wasn't good but he wasn't that bad.

Yes he was ... also the first time around in the Jordan.

[dj_bytedisaster]

:lol: how on earth did he ever get an F1 license ...

Anyway HRT has nothing to do in F1 - they are simply not up to the standard of the leading class in Formula racing. I am leaning on saying the same about Marussia and Caterham. All 3 teams have had 3 years in F1 and none of them have managed to score a single point. That's beyond pathetic...

I think that's too harsh on the smaller teams. These days there simply isn't anything to win for them. Back in the day we had a point system, where only the first six scored, but even then Minardi was able to scoop up the odd point here or there, simply because we had races where only 6 or 7 cars actually finished. That all went out the window in the early noughts, when Ferrari introduced the cryptonite car that doesn't brake down, ever. These days a race with 8 retirements is called a race of attrition. But that means 16 were still running. Nothing to grab there for the minnows.
Just to put it into perspective - if we were still running the old scheme, Torro Rosso wouldn't have scored a single point since 2008.

[rjbetty]

I think that's too harsh on the smaller teams. These days there simply isn't anything to win for them. Back in the day we had a point system, where only the first six scored, but even then Minardi was able to scoop up the odd point here or there, simply because we had races where only 6 or 7 cars actually finished. That all went out the window in the early noughts, when Ferrari introduced the cryptonite car that doesn't brake down, ever. These days a race with 8 retirements is called a race of attrition. But that means 16 were still running. Nothing to grab there for the minnows.
Just to put it into perspective - if we were still running the old scheme, Torro Rosso wouldn't have scored a single point since 2008.

I concur. I concur very much with this.
Caterham have been around 3 seconds off the pace this year; less than that until they started losing their direction. That is equal to say Minardi in 1994, who scored 5pts and quaified in the top 10 twice, or Tyrrell in 1996. Or Arrows, Stewart and even Prost in 1998, and clearly ahead of Tyrrell and Minardi in 1998.

Caterham are actually at an equal or higher standard than much of the 90s teams. Even HRT are better than Minardi were in their final 3 years.

[Wasted Talent]

Disappointed to see HRT and very sad for everyone connected with the team.

It is only the likes of HRT, Marussia and Caterham that show how good the top teams really are.

I agree that maybe teams should be allowed to use customer cars

WT

[Knock-on]

We get Ferrari sabotaging one driver with a deliberate penalty, Schumy jumping out of the way of a Friend and STR almost causing the Championship Leader in the sister-in-law car to earn a penalty in their haste to give up places. What will it be like with customer cars!!!

Anyway. HRT. Sorry for the people that may lose their job but they really haven't done much to justify their existence in F1. Maurussia and Caterham I'm happy to see continue but HRT were the weakest and didn't look like improving much.

[dj_bytedisaster]

We get Ferrari sabotaging one driver with a deliberate penalty, Schumy jumping out of the way of a Friend and STR almost causing the Championship Leader in the sister-in-law car to earn a penalty in their haste to give up places. What will it be like with customer cars!!!

All of that is only mildly relevant for the case of customer cars. The first one is solved easily. If someone breaks a seal, they have to show why. If there is no technical reason to warrant such action, the car is disqualified - that would make such grid-fixing impossible. Schumacher waving Vettel by had nothing to do with what car they were in. Schumacher said in his interview that he deliberately let vettel by without a fight, because he is a fan and good friend of Vettel and didn't want to be caught up in the championship decision in his last race. That the Torros let Vettel through is not much different from how often Sauber did not put up much more than a token defense in the Schumacher years. We'll always have such thing, even without customer cars.

[CNR]

Supplier hits out at HRT | F1 News | Dec 2012 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186758/1/supplier_hits_out_at_hrt.html)



One of the suppliers owed money by the HRT F1 team has hit out at the Spanish outfit over what it says are 'misleading information tactics' – and has confirmed that the team is now in liquidation.

Formtech Composites - which provides carbon solutions to a number of teams including Lotus, McLaren (http://www.crash.net/f1/team_profile/10/vodafone_mclaren_mercedes.html) and Force India (http://www.crash.net/f1/team_profile/3/force_india_f1_team.html) – has revealed that it had agreed a payment plan with the team when owners Thesan Capital announced plans to sell the team, with the team paying 25 per cent of the total it had outstanding at that point.

However, Formtech has now discovered that the team was placed into liquidation three days before that plan was agreed, on the same day news broke that the team was up for sale and that HRT was only offering to pay 30p for every Euro that remained outstanding.

[dj_bytedisaster]

So just another epic cheat. What else is new? HRT is just Coloni, Eurobrun and Andrea Moda all over again. Good riddance...

[rjbetty]

That's sad to hear, and brings back bad memories of the death throes of Arrows and Prost. I keep hoping they will still pull through, but it looks like it's game over. I think they did a very respectable job; they outlasted Simtek, Pacific, Forti, and Super Aguri among many others.

[Robinho]

sorry to see any team fold, and regardless of how poor they were someone has to appear at the foot of the table, and whoever it iswill be valued as that. now they are gone, the teams fighting ahead of them will be fighting for last place, which makes them look worse.

In terms of HRT however, they have brought little, if they made an effort to bring new talent into the sport and had at least one young driver in the team it would be a case of missing a couple of seats, but seeing as their model seems to have been proppoing up the careers of has beens I have little remorse. as for the financial dealings, what do you expect, it costs millions just to be there, they had no revenue stream from any success and no-one wanted to sponsor them. the juggling cum irregularities are just part and parcel of the environment that they are in, and will continue until the sport is placed on a firmer financial footing. With the entry fees rising and the event fees charged by bernie rising it is inconceivable that the teams should not be able to share in the profits of the sport

[Big Ben]

We should just go with the customer cars concept. Why not simply hand this years Red Bull down to STR next year. Why not revive "Scuderia Italia" and let them run this years Ferrari chassis next year. That way we would have more fairly competative teams instead of having some hapless backmarkers trying to survive. Why shouldn't Force India for instance be allowed to buy the plans for this years McLaren?
But I guess the idea just makes too much sense to be adopted.

A championship with 3-4 teams is the way to go. I can't wait the days when Mercedes will retire and a 3rd of the grid will be gone.

[SGWilko]

Supplier hits out at HRT | F1 News | Dec 2012 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186758/1/supplier_hits_out_at_hrt.html)

Isn't a 3rd more than a quarter? :confused:

[zako85]

If customer cars are allowed, then the mid-field teams like Williams and Sauber could get really screwed. A Caterham running a customer Ferrari car has a potential to be as fast as a mid-field car. But a team like Williams spends tens of millions to build a car. If not careful, pretty soon the entire field is reduced to running 3-4 chassis. Teams like Williams, FI, Sauber will eventually have switch to customer cars too and lose their in-house car design capability, and after that F1 will never be the same (more like North American CART in late 80s). Just imagine how much power the top team will weld at that point. Everything will depend just on them. And once we get there, a mid-field team will never be able to beat the top teams because the mid-field teams will be merely "followers" of the top teams, a sort of a learning desk for new staff and drivers.

I don't see a problem with one or two teams leaving the championship. I am not advocating this, but let's assume that the bottom three teams left the championship. I don't think we would have lost much. The bottom three never challenged the top 9 teams in qualifying and rarely in races. The only thing they gave us was observing the intrateam battles involving competent but still mostly average drivers. New teams came and left the whole time. It was always a fact of life for F1. The championship would still look good with just the top 9 teams that we have right now. I do hope the Caterham and Marussia will improve to be able to challenge the mid-field. I think they will be getting there.

[RS]

Sounds like a buyer may have come forward for HRT but that the FIA may not allow them in for 2013: HRT F1 entry and assets being pursued by new Scorpion Racing - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105319)

Don't understand the problem with letting them start the season; the 107 rule is still in place so if they can't cut it then they won't race. Let them have a go!

[Nikki Katz]

I guess it's due to them basically just buying the equipment and not the company so they don't start off with a load of debts, but that means that it's not the same team as HRT and would therefore need to apply separately. I don't think applications for new teams have been open since the applications for the 13th team in 2011 were all rejected. I dare say that if a huge company turned up requesting to enter F1 from scratch rather than buying an existing team then that would be allowed, but this sounds a bit more like an investment group.

Am just waiting for Villeneuve to buy into it, that would really be the final nail in the coffin of the team.

[steveaki13]

I know the FIA wont let them race in all likelyhood, but I would be willing to let them try. I am always happy to see personel and teams stay in F1.

I would also like one more team for 2014. Has anyone any idea if there are any teams looking to join F1 in the next few seasons?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't think applications for new teams have been open since the applications for the 13th team in 2011 were all rejected.
But Scorpion would be applying to be the twelfth team.


I know the FIA wont let them race in all likelyhood, but I would be willing to let them try.
I'm fairly certain the decision rests with the eleven teams. If someone wants to join at the last minute, then the teams need to agree to it. It would appear that Scorpion is looking to the FIA to find out whether the grid is open; if so, they will start purchasing HRT's assets, because there is not point in purchasing them if the grid is closed.

[Knock-on]

They will need to finalise the paperwork and due dilligence, complete the move from Madrid to Silverstone and put together a team and have a car ready to race in 45 days. It sounds too rushed to me and if they want to put a credible entry together rather than a expensive billboard, I would rather they aim for 2014.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

They will need to finalise the paperwork and due dilligence, complete the move from Madrid to Silverstone and put together a team and have a car ready to race in 45 days. It sounds too rushed to me
That's what I was saying about having all of their ducks lined up in a row. It makes no sense to get an entry to the grid and then start building the team. Rather, they would have everything arranged so that upon confirmation of a grid entry they simply have to finalise payments on everything - which might take a week or two - and then move everything to Silverstone in one go, and almost overnight, there is a team.

[CNR]

I think it would be a bit late for this year a few years back Walkinshaw Racing acquired Prost! turn up in Australia and was not allowed to race TWR acquires Prost! > F1 News > Grandprix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns05819.html)

[dj_bytedisaster]

Major obstacle for them is that the deadline for entering the 2013 season was 30th of November 2012, so they would need an exception to be made anyway. Since they don't have any time to develop the car, they'd have to use last years machinery, which is essentially a 2010 Dallara design. They'd be lucky just to make the 107% time. I think 2013 is completely unrealistic. If I were them, I'd sign a deal with Cosworth and test the raw sh*t out of the car and engine for 2014. With them not yet in F1 officially, testing restrictions don't apply for them. Heck, I bet even Pirelli or whoever gets the nod for 2014 would be interested to have their prospective tires tested on the new machinery.

[Knock-on]

The only thing in their favour is that they have a car that can race. The regulations for 2013 are the same as 2012 apart from a couple of very minor points so they wouldn't need to go through the FIA tests for a new car. However, the car was so slow and the other teams will have moved on leaving a massive gulf between the pack and HRT.

From a logistics POV, just getting the equipment packed up in Madrid, transported to Bilbao, 24 hours to Portmouth, up to Silverstone and set up is a couple of weeks work on it's own and that's pushing it.

I'd say it's possible to get a car to Australia but what state it will be in to race is another matter. IF they get dispensation to run this year, I would be surprised to see them before Spain.

[Nikki Katz]

I think it would be a bit late for this year a few years back Walkinshaw Racing acquired Prost! turn up in Australia and was not allowed to race TWR acquires Prost! > F1 News > Grandprix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns05819.html)
That happened again a few years ago with Toyota and Stefan GP didn't it? I seem to remember them even flying Villeneuve and Nakajima to Australia to race. They probably would have been faster than the new teams too.