Ferrari consider Sebastien Vettel protest...

[bontebempo]

After watching the Brazillian GP on Sunday was sad to see Vettel pass under yellow to win the WDC

BBC Sport - Formula 1: Ferrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638)

20 second penalty makes Alonso the WDC

After watching the Schu cheat his way to most of his WDC do we have another German to watch damage the sport I love?

[dj_bytedisaster]

No we haven't. You ignore the Marshal with the green flag at the exit of turn 3. Nice try. Come up with something better to make eyebrow the champion. He didn't make it on the track, he'll fail on the green table again.

[MAX_THRUST]

Oh dear. in a way its done, and i cant see them taking it away from Seb, but they aren't Ferrari...

[gloomyDAY]

No, but there are a ton of pissed off Spaniards.

[dj_bytedisaster]

No, but there are a ton of pissed off Spaniards.

Quite frankly, my room could be full of phuks, I still wouldn't give a single one. If you look at the 'evidence videos', the marshal is still there in lap 4 and the flag doesn't look very yellow.

[dj_bytedisaster]

After watching the Schu cheat his way to most of his WDC do we have another German to watch damage the sport I love?

Schumacher's team undoubtably cheated in 1994. Provide proof for 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004, else you'll look like just another butthurt Paella gobbler, who cannot take losing again.

[gloomyDAY]

...butthurt Paella gobbler...http://separi.wippiespace.com/img/conan-rofl.gif

[N. Jones]

Oh my. Vettel won. No cheating. bringing up Schu just causes more people to post to your dumb thread.

Please close as this can only go downhill, not up.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I already reported it as nationalist flame bait.

[bontebempo]

I already reported it as nationalist flame bait.

just because your German does not make you right. If anything the opposite

[dj_bytedisaster]

just because your German does not make you right. If anything the opposite

Go on, Einstein. I wonder the name of a certain leader from the 30s hasn't come up yet.Me being German doesn't make me right - that's true. But that doesn't change the fact that you came in here spouting racist remarks about Germans. If you're butthurt, that's your problem, but lashing out at other people based on their nationality is a low blow, Paella breath.

[POS_Maggott]

Go on, Einstein.

This entertained me to no end. Oh, irony...

[Warriwa]

They can not punish Vettel because of an apparent error from the stewards. If he passed under a yellow, the stewards missed their chance to do something about it. A penalty now denies Sebatian the chance to fight for the title, a chance he would have had if the stewards acted immediately. IF he passed under a yellow, the stewards should now penalise themselves.

[kfzmeister]

They can not punish Vettel because of an apparent error from the stewards. If he passed under a yellow, the stewards missed their chance to do something about it. A penalty now denies Sebatian the chance to fight for the title, a chance he would have had if the stewards acted immediately. IF he passed under a yellow, the stewards should now penalise themselves.

Oh yes they can......



Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."
It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."
That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another.

Hang onto your seats boys!! :D

[i_max2k2]

Stupid choice of words for the title of the thread, but moving on, there is enough ambiguity in the video where there seems to be a green flag, and a plethora of yellows, it was a mistake from the marshal(s) which makes this case void, I doubt Ferrari would have waited this long if they dint feel the evidence was enough, and they only have till tomorrow to lodge a complaint, regardless though the FIA must investigate them self as mentioned above, but I don't think the title will change hands off track.

[pino]

Title thread changed, now lets discuss it without insults or childish comments !

[TL]

I am just wondering why nobody at Ferrari noticed anything during the race and reported it to the stewards? Really weird!

[Nornbugger]

I am just wondering why nobody at Ferrari noticed anything during the race and reported it to the stewards? Really weird!


there was a lot going on during the race, easy to miss this confusion of flags, I hope there is no appeal as this season was great and hopefully will be remembered for the racing not for a court case to decide champion.

[Dave B]

I sometimes wonder if I was watching the same race, or whether I'm the only person who can see flags. There's no story here, apart from some wishful thinking on behalf of some supporters.

Sky messed up big time when they got all orgasmic over the Kobayashi overtake, and now it seems that others are doing the same with a different incident. It's embarrassing.

[The Black Knight]

I do see where Ferrari are coming from in this case and were the rules broken they would be entitled to protest but if there is a marshal waving a green flag and a yellow light in Seb's cockpit, I guess it's a matter of which takes precedence. I can't see any protest being successful. Going to be an interesting day or two...

[The Black Knight]

Official.




FIA says 'no case' to answer in Vettel overtaking controversy - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104644)

Fair enough. That should put an end to it then.

[MrJan]

What makes me laugh is how hypocritical everyone is over the whole thing. Alonso saying stuff like "at least we're honest" and Vettel stuff like "it's a shame they have to look for a way to beat us off track". Surely we're all well enough acquainted with this sport to know that, if the boot was on the other foot, nothing would be any different. There isn't a 'quick' team on the grid that hasn't found themselves in a spot of bother before, or that hasn't complained when one team comes up with a way around the rules that makes them quicker than anyone else. Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, they're all the bloody same.

[pino]

Great post MrJan :up:

Now I really do hope Ferrari accept FIA decision, without taking any further action and start to concentrate on next season. The same goes her, lets accept it and move on...a new exciting season is about to start ;)

[dj_bytedisaster]

meanwhile in spain...

There've been news in the German media that things got a wee bit out of control over at HRT. Word is that several mechanics were about to be laid off, but demanded compensation. heated words were exchanged before the argument was taken to a slightly more physical level. :D

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f213/PaulyMX555/boy-that-escalated-quickly_zps178aa246.jpg

Good to know that some people still know the true way to 'discuss things' - anyone remember Piquet and Salazar *lol*

[zako85]

I don't think Ferrari or RBR are taking this protest seriously. It's probably just to placate Alonso who is probably feeling very emotional and disappointed right now. However, the protest has a valid purpose as the situation seemed pretty confusing. Perhaps FIA should study and learn something from this.

I agree it would be ridiculous to give Vettel a 20-second penalty _after_ the race for something that happened during the race on lap 4. If the rule violation was so obvious, then Vettel should have been given a penalty right then. If Vettel didn't pass in that area, does anyone really have a doubt that Vettel would have passed STR's Vergne any way within the next sector? Sadly, STR cars often get out of RBR cars way as fast as they can for obvious reasons, and they're not very fast cars to begin with, taking 9th place in constructor's championship this year.

[Knock-on]

I am just wondering why nobody at Ferrari noticed anything during the race and reported it to the stewards? Really weird!

There is one feed but it is up to individual broadcasters what they do with it. The feed shown in the pits was playing a replay of something else when the incident happened. It was only later when it appeared on Youtube that anyone noticed.

Very poor stewarding though and should have been reported straight away to the FIA. You expect Stewards to pick up something as basic in a Club meeting, let alone F1.

[dj_bytedisaster]

There is one feed but it is up to individual broadcasters what they do with it. The feed shown in the pits was playing a replay of something else when the incident happened. It was only later when it appeared on Youtube that anyone noticed.

Since everyone at home can select which feed to watch - including the one used in the video - you can be sure that Ferrari has people sitting back in the garage watching the different feeds, especially in a title deciding race.


Very poor stewarding though and should have been reported straight away to the FIA. You expect Stewards to pick up something as basic in a Club meeting, let alone F1.

What should the stewards have reported? "hey guys, Vettel just passed a car under green flag conditions"? The only thing that led to confusion were the indicator lights in Vettel's cockpit. Those stayed on, because the marshal post at the start of the straight is one of the few around Interlagos, which doesn't have a light-post nearby and therefore no means to turn of the indicators in the cockpits. That happened, when he passed the light-post before the entry of T4.

I'm pretty sure Ferrari knew all that before. The letter for clarification was most likely just a token gesture to appease the Spanish media, who have been frothing at the mouth since Monday and demanded a protest by Ferrari.

[big_sw2000]

Ferrari to challange Christmas

Ferrari to challenge Christmas « Sniff Petrol (http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/11/29/ferrari-to-challenge-christmas/)

Steve

[Knock-on]

Since everyone at home can select which feed to watch - including the one used in the video - you can be sure that Ferrari has people sitting back in the garage watching the different feeds, especially in a title deciding race.

You obviously know more than me but I can assure you we all have the same feed at trackside. Back in the UK or Italy, it's different but take it from me that Ferrari do not have hundreds of people sitting in the back of the Garage watching every different feed. Do you think this is James Bond or something? Half the time it's more like Keystone Kops.

[N4D13]

Even *if* Vettel had overtaken anyone ilegally, which is not the case, what would be the point be? Anyone care to remember that Belgian GP in which Massa parked his car out of the box at the start, yet didn't get a penalty for it? I don't think that a penalty should be issued now.

[big_sw2000]

You bugger I was about to post that!! :p :)

Sorry i just stole it off another well known forum

Steve

[Donney]

I wonder why people have to insult each other based on nationality.... That gives their arguments a more solid base for sure...

Other than that I doubt the results will be changed at all and I don't think Ferrari should protest.

Now where's my yellow rice with sauerkraut...

[dj_bytedisaster]

You obviously know more than me but I can assure you we all have the same feed at trackside. Back in the UK or Italy, it's different but take it from me that Ferrari do not have hundreds of people sitting in the back of the Garage watching every different feed. Do you think this is James Bond or something? Half the time it's more like Keystone Kops.

Call me naive, but if you have an el cheapo Sky abo (or the predecessor Premiere), you get several feeds, which you can choose from at will. I would find it highly unlikely that the teams don't have the same access to the TV material

[Knock-on]

Call me naive, but if you have an el cheapo Sky abo (or the predecessor Premiere), you get several feeds, which you can choose from at will. I would find it highly unlikely that the teams don't have the same access to the TV material

Like I say, you know more than me.

[F1boat]

I heard that Ferrari sent letter to FIA. I don't believe that this will change anything, but I am appalled and disgusted. I hope that neither Alonso, nor the current Ferrari team will win any more championships. Douches.

[dj_bytedisaster]

I heard that Ferrari sent letter to FIA. I don't believe that this will change anything, but I am appalled and disgusted. I hope that neither Alonso, nor the current Ferrari team will win any more championships. Douches.

A bit too late mate. The whole thing has been over for hours already ;) The only funny thing about it is the timing. The first media outlets start to report about Ferrari's letter and something like 2 minutes later Autosport.com presents their 'exclusive confirmation from FIA' that the pass was legal. So basically the whole thing must have been a non-issue since at least yesterday.

[F1boat]

A bit too late mate. The whole thing has been over for hours already ;) The only funny thing about it is the timing. The first media outlets start to report about Ferrari's letter and something like 2 minutes later Autosport.com presents their 'exclusive confirmation from FIA' that the pass was legal. So basically the whole thing must have been a non-issue since at least yesterday.
I spent several wonderful days in the mountain, far away from the Internet and the idiocy of the big city and its dwellers. Now I return and Ferrari shat directly into my soul with this protest. I really hope that it is over, but with them, you can never know.

[dj_bytedisaster]

They didn't protest. They merely asked for clarification.

[Big Ben]

Could you be more melodramatic f1boat?


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[The Black Knight]

I spent several wonderful days in the mountain, far away from the Internet and the idiocy of the big city and its dwellers. Now I return and Ferrari shat directly into my soul with this protest. I really hope that it is over, but with them, you can never know.

Over-react much? ;)

[F1boat]

Over-react much? ;)

I don't think so - appealing the result of a World Championship in court for me is the lowest thing an F1 team can do. It was nauseating when McLaren did it in 2007 and it is nauseating now.

[Knock-on]

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-get-over-yourself.png

;)

[donKey jote]

I'm pretty sure Ferrari knew all that before. The letter for clarification was most likely just a token gesture to appease the Spanish media, who have been frothing at the mouth since Monday and demanded a protest by Ferrari.

except they haven't been, but that wouldn't suit your jingo :dozey:

[gloomyDAY]

I don't think so - appealing the result of a World Championship in court for me is the lowest thing an F1 team can do. It was nauseating when McLaren did it in 2007 and it is nauseating now.Relax, dude. Ferrari never lodged a complaint and only asked for clarification. The issue is settled! Go back to the mountains and breathe!

[donKey jote]

Even *if* Vettel had overtaken anyone ilegally, which is not the case, what would be the point be? Anyone care to remember that Belgian GP in which Massa parked his car out of the box at the start, yet didn't get a penalty for it? I don't think that a penalty should be issued now.

now stop frothing at the mouth, you sour papas eater... oh wait... you're not !

[F1boat]

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-get-over-yourself.png

;)

Well, I am not calm about such things, sorry...

[Ranger]

I spent several wonderful days in the mountain, far away from the Internet and the idiocy of the big city and its dwellers. Now I return and Ferrari shat directly into my soul with this protest. I really hope that it is over, but with them, you can never know.

:eek:

Time for the 2013 season I think...

[donKey jote]

No we haven't. You ignore the Marshal with the green flag at the exit of turn 3. Nice try. Come up with something better to make eyebrow the champion. He didn't make it on the track, he'll fail on the green table again.

since when is he trying? :rolleyes:

[donKey jote]

Schumacher's team undoubtably cheated in 1994. Provide proof for 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004, else you'll look like just another butthurt Paella gobbler, who cannot take losing again.

jingo bells, jingo bells :rolleyes:

[dj_bytedisaster]

jingo bells, jingo bells :rolleyes:

How often do you you want to harp on about that? As childish as my reaction was, nobody seemed bothered by the insults that caused me to drop the ball? Anyway. It's history.

[donKey jote]

Konkret ! :D
It's been history for ages for all the Spaniards (and half-Spaniards) I've seen on this forum, yet you for whatever childish reason harped into a multi-thread German-nationalistic harp about Spanish numbnuts :dozey:
Glad it's history now for you too :up:

[Tazio]

I think it's time to get over the outcome of the race, and be both gracious winners as well as losers.
BTW I love Paella....and not Spanish :D

[Bullet]

This is ridiculous. There is zero chance that had the situation been reversed Red Bull would just concede. It is highly unlikely that had the situation been reversed all the Seb supporters wouldn't be on here talking about how Alonso (or whatever the given insulting name of the moment is) had cheated, lied and the evil Ferrari empire bought off the FIA once again... Get a little perspective. I'd expect nothing less from any team, or any driver to fight on the track and to contest decisions off the track if there is a legitimate issue to contest. Just the publicity alone for these multi-gazillion dollar teams is worth keeping a story alive, as is the controversy for the sport. I expect more on this as the media stage a rematch between these drivers next season.

[Dave B]

You obviously know more than me but I can assure you we all have the same feed at trackside. Back in the UK or Italy, it's different but take it from me that Ferrari do not have hundreds of people sitting in the back of the Garage watching every different feed. Do you think this is James Bond or something? Half the time it's more like Keystone Kops.
Balls - Ferrari, in common with most teams, have access to all the feeds on the pitwall as well as several Kangaroo units. Back in the factory you can be sure they are watching the FOM feeds. Hell, even I occasionally watch three or fours feeds at once, and I don't have a multi-million dollar vested interest in the result. You don't exactly need James Bond technology, just a red button or an internet connection.

[Knock-on]

Balls - Ferrari, in common with most teams, have access to all the feeds on the pitwall as well as several Kangaroo units. Back in the factory you can be sure they are watching the FOM feeds. Hell, even I occasionally watch three or fours feeds at once, and I don't have a multi-million dollar vested interest in the result. You don't exactly need James Bond technology, just a red button or an internet connection.

Back at the factory is a little different to in the Garage Dave. You take the feed from FOM.

I think different streams is what you mean but I'm not very up with the Broadcasting side. It's all one feed is what I mean.

[Dave B]

Back at the factory is a little different to in the Garage Dave. You take the feed from FOM.

I think different streams is what you mean but I'm not very up with the Broadcasting side. It's all one feed is what I mean.
All I'm saying is that if I saw (and understood) both incidents simply by pressing the red button on a Sky box, then it's not exactly James Bond technology out of reach to a company with the resources of Ferrari! :)

[The Black Knight]

I don't think so - appealing the result of a World Championship in court for me is the lowest thing an F1 team can do. It was nauseating when McLaren did it in 2007 and it is nauseating now.

Well, to be honest, if Vettel did overtake under a yellow flag illegally then he shouldn't be champion now, and it's as simple as that and I couldn't blame a team for protesting the result as it means that their driver should be champion. It's unlikely to happen though, lets face it.

On another note, when Vettel overtook Kobayashi on lap 57, Kobayashi was pushed off the circuit, and it doesn't appear to me that Vettel gave him the required cars width but it's debatable.

Is there anything else anyone can find? :p

[CNR]

one more case of Alonso trying to cheat BBC Sport - Formula 1: FIA believes Sebastian Vettel has no case to answer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589)
Chief F1 writer on F1's track warning system

"Drivers are given indications of the status of a race track by three
different methods - trackside flags and lights and a display in their cockpit.
These are all supposed to coincide. But in reality there are more flags than
lights, and the FIA says it has told drivers to respond to the first indication
of a change of status, whether that be light or flag. The cockpit display is not
supposed to be able to contradict the track-side indicators, whether flags or
lights. One of the complications of this situation, is that it does - Vettel's
dashboard display continues to indicate he is in a caution zone after he passes
the green flag the FIA says is on the inside of the track by the pit lane exit."

[CNR]

BBC Sport understands several team bosses have seen the footage of the incident
and agree a green flag was being waved at the marshals' post.

[dj_bytedisaster]

This is ridiculous. There is zero chance that had the situation been reversed Red Bull would just concede. ...

Ferrari have never contested the result. This whole shebang was brought on by outside parties. The Koba pass was mis-analyzed by the people from Sky, mainly Alan McNish. The Stewards quickly dismissed it and it was Ferrari themselves (Pat Fry), who confirmed that it were 'oil flags'. The Vergne pass was blow up by the Spanish media (El Mundo, El Pais and ABC IIRC). They were frothing at the mouth and with what little spanish I can muster, it appeared to me as if they very much expected (even pressured? I don't know) Ferrari to protest. El Mundo had some sort of 'counting down the hours' thing going, where they counted the number of hours that were remaining for Ferrari to protest. Alonso didn't help matters with his 'I don't nee miracles, I make mine with the proper rules' - or something tweet, which got the rags even more going. Earlier today first media reports appeared that Ferrari was asking clarification on it. Note, this is technically not a protest, but merely a request to FIA to have a look and tell them what's what.

In a piece of bizare timing autosport.com came out - mere minutes later - with an 'exclusive statement' from FIA that the pass was legit, confirming what half the interwebs had figured out by tuesday - there was a green flag. To me that looks as if in FIA and team circles this has been a non-issue for days already. I would hazard a guess that Ferrari merely did that clarification request as a token gesture to appease the Spanish media. Afterall, their star driver is a Spaniard and they have spanish sponsors, which would probably not take kindly to Ferrari sitting on their hands doing nothing, even though there was actually nothing to do.

So all those, who say that Ferrari tried to 'correct' the result in the boardroom are wrong - it were the Spanish (and partially the Italian) media, who hyped this stuff. To my shame I must admit, that I made such claims myself in the heat of an argument lately and I hereby wish to retract those claims. Ferrari is free of blame in this one and I think they get out of this without losing face. The media however walk home with quite a lot of egg on it.

[jas123f1]

Wow - so faintly of Ferrari - they are simply bad losers ... Ferrari has invested lot of their honor and (Santander) millions and built everything a round ONE driver in their efforts to be the best team but it failed again (3dt time) - now they try use a last (highly questionable) straw to get the title to Alonso ... but the title belongs Sebastian Vettel - even if it hurts some people at Ferrari .. obviously.

[dj_bytedisaster]

jas, did you read the post above yours? Ferrari did not protest. They simply asked for an official statement from FIA.

[jarrambide]

Konkret ! :D
It's been history for ages for all the Spaniards (and half-Spaniards) I've seen on this forum, yet you for whatever childish reason harped into a multi-thread German-nationalistic harp about Spanish numbnuts :dozey:
Glad it's history now for you too :up:

What's a half Spaniard?

[Warriwa]

Well, I am not calm about such things, sorry...


And you don't have to be Boatman. Ignore these super cool ice hearts. They saw an opportunity to jump on board the boat. We are emotional because we are passionate F1 fans. These doods are too tough for F1. They can win staring contests with the sun and sqeeze water from rocks. ;)

[donKey jote]

What's a half Spaniard?

you? :andrea:

(kidding! :laugh: )

[SGWilko]

Call me naive

You're naive.

Hows that?

;)

[SGWilko]

What's a half Spaniard?

More to the point, which half - top or bottom, left or right, or front or back?

And anyway, as soon as you cut said spaniard in half, they will become an ex spaniard - whole, half or whatever! :p

[N4D13]

The Vergne pass was blow up by the Spanish media (El Mundo, El Pais and ABC IIRC).
I read El País frequently and I can't really say that they've contributed to blowing up the story, as I only saw it on their website about two days after it was published in As. Now that's where all the cr@p was - As and Marca are the prime makers of sport BS in Spanish press. As for El Mundo and ABC, I can't really say, although I have absolutely no sympathy towards them.

[Donney]

I will say it once again, Spanish press is the worst kind of crap when it comes to motorsport. It is a shame as it normally taints the reputation of those involved or related to their tabloid articles, in this case Alonso and Ferrari.

[Warriwa]

What's a half Spaniard?

Danny Pedrosa

[MrJan]

What's a half Spaniard?

Mexicans? ;) :p :

[Knock-on]

And anyway, as soon as you cut said spaniard in half, they will become an ex spaniard - whole, half or whatever! :p

OK, there's a risk, but it just might work.

What about we practice on a Donkey first. Nobody will object to that :D Well, nobody that matters ;)

[Knock-on]

Mexicans? ;) :p :

Damn you. I've been beaten to it :p

[pino]

Party is over...thanks everyone ;)