Another stupid gimmick

[Alfa Fan]

BTCC :: Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship (http://btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=3253)

Copying Formula One tyre regulations, cars will use a "harder" tyre for two races and a softer "option" tyre for one race per weekend, selected by the teams.

I absolutely hate this idea, and honestly, do we really need more gimmicks in this series?

[Alfa Fan]

BTCC :: Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship (http://btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=3254)

Oh great. It gets better. The cancer of performance equalisation continues. And this time it's per driver, not per car. This might actually be the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of me abandoning this series.

We are left in a position now where we have the following gimmicks:

- Reversed grids
- Option tyres
- Success ballast

And also

- Performance equalised cars
- Performance equalised drivers

So next season we will Jeff Smith running more turbo boost than Shedden or Neal simply because he is slower.

I cannot adequately express how angry I am about what Alan Gow has done to this series in the last three years.

[BDunnell]

I absolutely hate this idea, and honestly, do we really need more gimmicks in this series?

No — and this goes for F1 as well. I have no time for anything that makes understanding a championship's rules unnecessarily complex, and this is just such a concept.

[BDunnell]

BTCC :: Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship (http://btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=3254)

Oh great. It gets better. The cancer of performance equalisation continues.

This, surely, is a slight improvement: 'The amount of change (ie. increase/decrease) in the turbo boost pressure adjustment will be reduced from the current level'.

[Alfa Fan]

This, surely, is a slight improvement: 'The amount of change (ie. increase/decrease) in the turbo boost pressure adjustment will be reduced from the current level'.

They are equalising on a driver-by-driver basis! How is that better?

Suddenly I understand why everyone wants Insignia's next season. Why would you not go for the cheapest thing going if its just going to fully equalised like this?

[Dave B]

Here's an idea. Everybody runs cars built to the same rules, so whoever is the best driver and running the best-prepared car, wins.

It could catch on...

[Alfa Fan]

Isn't this what we had in 91-00? And weren't they, I dunno, the greatest years the series has ever seen. Wonder if there might be some correlation in that? ...

P.S. I know its not the only factor, but I just don't get this nonsense at all. Didn't understand it in WTCC and don't now in BTCC.

[JasonPotato]

Well its already gotten to the stage for me that i would rather watch F1 which has never been the case. Before too long ITV will dump it as well, then where will the series be? Not sure why they ever wanted to go down the route of cheap cheap cheap.

[BDunnell]

Isn't this what we had in 91-00? And weren't they, I dunno, the greatest years the series has ever seen. Wonder if there might be some correlation in that? ...

Well, there was money in the championship in those days. Now I suppose this is a way of trying to get a bigger pool of front-running cars by other means. I think it's pointless, because I'm sure the racing would be sufficiently close without such gimmicks. Wouldn't it?



P.S. I know its not the only factor, but I just don't get this nonsense at all. Didn't understand it in WTCC and don't now in BTCC.

I was pleased to see some comment on the matter from Autosport.

Boost equalisation rules tweaked for 2013 BTCC season - BTCC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104234)

The question as to why the teams apparently agreed to this is a very good one. I can't understand it at all.

[Eurotech]

Maybe the plan is to slow everyone else down, so Andy Neate'll be out front on his own so he can't hit anyone...

[AndyRAC]

Here's an idea. Everybody runs cars built to the same rules, so whoever is the best driver and running the best-prepared car, wins.

It could catch on...

Yes, why not? Oh, yes, I forgot, that would be far too simple.

Whilst I dislike the weight penalties, it's probably just about acceptable in a National race series - but not in a World Series, I;e the WTCC.

[BDunnell]

Yes, why not? Oh, yes, I forgot, that would be far too simple.

Whilst I dislike the weight penalties, it's probably just about acceptable in a National race series - but not in a World Series, I;e the WTCC.

In fairness, weight penalties have been around for years, unduly affecting car performance, and they've always been messed about with — look at how the penalty given to the BMWs merely for being rear-drive was lessened mid-way through the 1994 season when BMW complained.

What I can't understand is why TOCA is, seemingly, afraid of allowing a truly level playing field unaffected by boost changes, weight penalties and so forth. I am convinced the racing would be little affected.

[Dave B]

I am convinced the racing would be little affected.
I am convinced that TOCA care more about "the show" than the racing, sadly. I can understand the appeal to the mass audience, with short attention spans and a desire to see thrills and spills, but increasingly it's not for me.

[BDunnell]

I am convinced that TOCA care more about "the show" than the racing, sadly. I can understand the appeal to the mass audience, with short attention spans and a desire to see thrills and spills, but increasingly it's not for me.

Well, the apparent efforts to clean up the racing via new penalties, as announced this week, would seem to work against the desire for 'thrills and spills' to some extent. But still I won't be satisfied as an enthusiast with racing that's good and clean but also inherently false as a result of forced equalisation.

[AndyRAC]

I'm the same, I never used to miss a race. Now I'll watch the first race of the series....then do something else more entertaining.

[BDunnell]

I'm the same, I never used to miss a race. Now I'll watch the first race of the series....then do something else more entertaining.

I would still much rather watch the BTCC than any other form of current motorsport — F1 I feel is even worse for gimmicks (utterly inappropriate given the standing of the series) and generally leaves me cold, the DTM is as dull as ditchwater, I don't care one iota about the WTCC, and the less said about the WRC the better — but do so with the nagging feeling that it's not what it could be.

[christophulus]

From those links, everything was "unanimously agreed" by the teams, therefore there shouldn't be any moaning about boost or whatever. The tyre rule is odd though, we've already seen some cars can't make the "harder" tyre last a full race so where is the advantage of running the soft ones?

The odd rule for me is the banning of mixed slick/wet tyres on a car, I don't understand the logic of that one.

[BDunnell]

From those links, everything was "unanimously agreed" by the teams, therefore there shouldn't be any moaning about boost or whatever.

I can't see that the new rules regarding boost changes can possibly see the championship rid of arguments over boost.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I wonder if performance equalisation actually puts off potential works entrants. Why would a company want to show off their engineering brilliance if they are just going to be handicapped?

[IceWizard]

A gimmick indeed. Sprint races do not need such things and this combined with the seemingly constant boost alterations is likely to put me off the series. It has reached the point where I enjoy the spectacle of an F1 race more than the BTCC, something that I didn't think I'd ever be saying back in the mid nineties.

[BDunnell]

I wonder if performance equalisation actually puts off potential works entrants. Why would a company want to show off their engineering brilliance if they are just going to be handicapped?

Well, this pretty much says it all as to where the BTCC is at: MG team boss Ian Harrison welcomes BTCC rules tweaks - BTCC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104438)

'I think you've got to have something - all the engines are different and if you've got one that's not as good for development you're in trouble for a whole season', says Ian Harrison. To which my response is, 'So?'

Far more sensible are the comments of Steve Neal: Honda boss unconvinced by British Touring Car rule tweaks for 2013 - BTCC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104454)

[BDunnell]

It has reached the point where I enjoy the spectacle of an F1 race more than the BTCC, something that I didn't think I'd ever be saying back in the mid nineties.

I might feel the same were it not for DRS, something I consider far more absurd than any BTCC boost adjustments.

[Dave B]

I might feel the same were it not for DRS, something I consider far more absurd than any BTCC boost adjustments.
I like DRS when it's used sensibly, to negate the effect of following in the dirty air on the approach to a decent overtaking corner, but not when it's on a 1km straight and a driver can simply breeze past.

But I digress...

[Tixy54]

I like DRS when it's used sensibly, to negate the effect of following in the dirty air on the approach to a decent overtaking corner, but not when it's on a 1km straight and a driver can simply breeze past.

But I digress...

I don't watch, or follow, F1. It's just aerospace technology used in reverse on the ground.

[RMLCruzeing82]

I've already dropped my support for the BTCC as of next year ever, before the stupid soft tyre and equalised rule was announced. last two years have been manufactured racing. i dont want to see manufactured racing. i want real honest door to door racing. ill start going to more club racing meetings

[MrJan]

I don't watch, or follow, F1. It's just aerospace technology used in reverse on the ground.

Why is that a problem?

I don't get why people don't follow F1 at the minute, arguably the racing this year has been more interesting than the BTCC (every touring car race I watched seem to settle into a bit of procession after 6 or 7 laps). There has also been some truly great racing between drivers over the last few seasons, like last year when Button and Hamilton had a great battle in Turkey.

As for boost in the BTCC, well they have to try something that's going to minimise the amount of whinging and moaning from Plato, Neal and Shedden, they've made such a fuss between them over the last few years that it's become a bit of a joke series IMO., more so than if they start messing around with the rules.

[RMLCruzeing82]

Why is that a problem?

I don't get why people don't follow F1 at the minute, arguably the racing this year has been more interesting than the BTCC (every touring car race I watched seem to settle into a bit of procession after 6 or 7 laps).


You must of been watching the WTCC, i dont recall the BTCC having any races with any procession

[GravettFan99]

Maybe the plan is to slow everyone else down, so Andy Neate'll be out front on his own so he can't hit anyone...

Neate winning a race? Hey, remember that he will face competition from Liam Griffin and Chris James... for most crashes, quite possibly. :p

:hmph:
Forget Plato, Neal, and Shedden having at it at the front and wowing the crowds with their amazing driving ability! :mad: AlfaFan is reasonably upset; I know what he must be thinking. Leave it to the driver's TRUE ABILITY, not the SPEED AND MAXIMUM CAPABILITIES OF THE CAR. http://smileyicons.net/smilies/179.gif That is what proper touring cars are, the display of talents of drivers and teams... I don't see even the DTM making modifications to favor drivers who apparently drive slower than their grandmother!

I know that in F1, the teams make modifications to their car to make them faster, and sometimes a certain team dominates the series, but a series organization making the most infuriating and ridiculous rules just to favor glorified club racers is utter crap. http://smileyicons.net/smilies/167.gif Is BTCC hitting the self-destruct button by taking these actions? I sure do feel that way. I know the big names and manufacturers are not present any more, but seriously?
If this is saw fit by the leading organization here, why not have all forms of sports do this? Hey, why not take the Premier League,
and subtract 2 points from the points the winning team earns in every won match to support the losing team? Sorry, but I am very sure that will disgust all the fans. Please, keep the level playing field, forget this silly rule, and banish the idea from ever being introduced into the series.

I wonder how some of the top drivers feel about this, I'd be interested to hear their opinion.



Sorry if I am too harsh on saying this...

[Bezza]

BMW dominated 1993
Alfa Romeo dominated 1994
Audi dominated 1996
Renault dominated 1997
Nissan dominated 1999

Yet, all five season were classic seasons and full of entertaining racing, with high quality drivers and teams.

Sadly, Gow now wants to avoid ever having "domination" by equalizing cars, having reverse grids, short races and loads of other amateurish bollocks.

I turned off mid-way through 2011, it will take major changes - a return to realistic racing rules - to get me back on side.

[BDunnell]

BMW dominated 1993
Alfa Romeo dominated 1994
Audi dominated 1996
Renault dominated 1997
Nissan dominated 1999

Yet, all five season were classic seasons and full of entertaining racing, with high quality drivers and teams.

Wouldn't say 'classic'. 'In the past' doesn't equate to 'classic'. In my view, 1993 and '97 in particular were rather dull seasons compared with, say, '95 and '98. But I digress.

[BDunnell]

Forget Plato, Neal, and Shedden having at it at the front and wowing the crowds with their amazing driving ability! :mad: AlfaFan is reasonably upset; I know what he must be thinking. Leave it to the driver's TRUE ABILITY, not the SPEED AND MAXIMUM CAPABILITIES OF THE CAR. http://smileyicons.net/smilies/179.gif That is what proper touring cars are, the display of talents of drivers and teams... I don't see even the DTM making modifications to favor drivers who apparently drive slower than their grandmother!

I know that in F1, the teams make modifications to their car to make them faster, and sometimes a certain team dominates the series, but a series organization making the most infuriating and ridiculous rules just to favor glorified club racers is utter crap. http://smileyicons.net/smilies/167.gif Is BTCC hitting the self-destruct button by taking these actions? I sure do feel that way. I know the big names and manufacturers are not present any more, but seriously?
If this is saw fit by the leading organization here, why not have all forms of sports do this? Hey, why not take the Premier League,
and subtract 2 points from the points the winning team earns in every won match to support the losing team? Sorry, but I am very sure that will disgust all the fans. Please, keep the level playing field, forget this silly rule, and banish the idea from ever being introduced into the series.

I wonder how some of the top drivers feel about this, I'd be interested to hear their opinion.



Sorry if I am too harsh on saying this...

Not at all — I think you make some very reasonable points. The sad thing is that I believe the championship would be perfectly entertaining and competitive without all the gimmicks.

[Eurotech]

Why can't teams just accept that if their car isn't fast enough, its because they haven't done as good a job as the other teams? stop equalizing everything because it doesn't work.

Either that or follow the Aussie V8 Supercars idea of making the rules so tight that all the cars end up practically the same in terms of speed anyway. Thats how you get entertaining racing. Soft tyres and reversed grids just cause crashes. Crashing isn't racing.

[Eurotech]

BMW dominated 1993
Alfa Romeo dominated 1994
Audi dominated 1996
Renault dominated 1997
Nissan dominated 1999


Not to mention Fords domination of 2000, and Vauxhall in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004

[Tixy54]

What I can't understand is why TOCA is, seemingly, afraid of allowing a truly level playing field unaffected by boost changes, weight penalties and so forth. I am convinced the racing would be little affected.

I absolutely agree, why can't we just have the best drivers in the best prepared equipment winning instead of making it "unfair" by trying to make it "fair". Let's go back a few years to something like the late 80's early 2000's, BTCC was much more fun and interesting then before TOCA started to put in these F1 style gimmicks.

[Tixy54]

Why is that a problem?

I don't get why people don't follow F1 at the minute, arguably the racing this year has been more interesting than the BTCC (every touring car race I watched seem to settle into a bit of procession after 6 or 7 laps). There has also been some truly great racing between drivers over the last few seasons, like last year when Button and Hamilton had a great battle in Turkey.

As for boost in the BTCC, well they have to try something that's going to minimise the amount of whinging and moaning from Plato, Neal and Shedden, they've made such a fuss between them over the last few years that it's become a bit of a joke series IMO., more so than if they start messing around with the rules.

The reason why that's a problem is because it's a car not an aircraft. Aircraft technology has been around for a long time now, why has it taken F1 so long to notice that? If aerospace technology must be used in car racing then it should have been taken on board in the 50's-60's.

[Tixy54]

You must of been watching the WTCC, i dont recall the BTCC having any races with any procession

I must agree on this one.