Windows 8

[Valve Bounce]

OK! seeing nobody has posted this yet, I'll start. We had dyre warnings about the new Microsoft system, with kids wanting to go back to Mum's old computer with Windows 7. So!! has anyone tried this new system yet? I'm not worried as I can upgrade to Windows for $15 as I just "bought" the Ultrabook with Windows 7. :crazy:

[Mark]

(There was a bit of discussion in the mobiles thread, but this is desktops too of course)

Not sure I'm convinced yet, but then again I haven't actually tried the finished product so I'm not sure.

I do know at work I'm going to get my machine upgraded with a new OS, so I do wonder if I should go with Windows 7 64-bit or jump to Windows 8.

[paldev123]

It is quite more faster then windows8 and as usual different in graphic from windows7 with lots of themes and lots of more attractive gadgets.

[pino]

OK! seeing nobody has posted this yet, I'll start. We had dyre warnings about the new Microsoft system, with kids wanting to go back to Mum's old computer with Windows 7. So!! has anyone tried this new system yet? I'm not worried as I can upgrade to Windows for $15 as I just "bought" the Ultrabook with Windows 7. :crazy:

I will stick with Windows 7 until I read some reviews/feedback from the expert in here ;) btw welcome back Valve :up: :D

[Dave B]

We're on the happy borderline of being able to choose between 7 & 8 on our new toys, so correct me if I'm wrong: W8 has a weird hybrid interface but if you spend about 30 seconds customising it you can basically have the familiar desktop back should you so wish; it's also more secure and slightly faster than 7. So far so good?

[Daniel]

(There was a bit of discussion in the mobiles thread, but this is desktops too of course)

Not sure I'm convinced yet, but then again I haven't actually tried the finished product so I'm not sure.

I do know at work I'm going to get my machine upgraded with a new OS, so I do wonder if I should go with Windows 7 64-bit or jump to Windows 8.

Well, seeing as though you're an IT person, someone has to test the compatibility of apps :) As far as usability and compatibility go, there's no real difference for desktop users, you boot into the Metro style interface and click on the desktop tile and you're in desktop mode and it's pretty much Windows 7 aside from there being no start icon.

[Daniel]

We're on the happy borderline of being able to choose between 7 & 8 on our new toys, so correct me if I'm wrong: W8 has a weird hybrid interface but if you spend about 30 seconds customising it you can basically have the familiar desktop back should you so wish; it's also more secure and slightly faster than 7. So far so good?

Here are a few photos taken with my phone.

Metro interface you get when you log in. Click on the desktop tile to go into desktop mode
http://oi46.tinypic.com/168u4rd.jpg
Desktop mode. Looks familiar non?
http://oi45.tinypic.com/recx.jpg
This is what happens when you use the start button, it works the same as in Windows 7, just that it launches full screen rather than just from the bottom left corner.
http://oi46.tinypic.com/2hohixh.jpg

[Mark]

Yes. I'm going to argue to have Windows 8 on my new machine. Not that because I particularly need it but I do need to become familiar with it as it's here to stay.

[Daniel]

Yes. I'm going to argue to have Windows 8 on my new machine. Not that because I particularly need it but I do need to become familiar with it as it's here to stay.

Someone needs to try it fo shizzidy. Personally if you're going to get a new machine I'd argue that they should get you a machine with a touchscreen so as to be able to use it properly and evaluate its usefulness in the business :)

[Mark]

Haha. Like that's gonna happen.

[Daniel]

Haha. Like that's gonna happen.

Well, without a touchscreen it's just Windows 7 + a touchscreen interface that you can't use. Compatibility should be much the same as W7.

[CaptainRaiden]

Windows 8 review | Operating systems Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/windows-8-1093002/review)


For

On the right hardware, it's sleek, fast and fun
Huge security improvements
Better battery life, faster boot
Great for touch

Against

Start menu gone
Can't boot to the desktop
You'll want a touchscreen/trackpad gestures/Touch Mouse
Modern UI will annoy some.

I was thinking about upgrading to Win 8, but all the things I use for my work are set up with Windows 7 and streamlined and working perfect, I don't want to necessarily mess up the ecosystem. Maybe the next time I wanna upgrade or have an OS failure/virus attack, and my PC needs a reinstall, I might switch to Windows 8.

[gloomyDAY]

No, I just use my PC for gaming and my Macbook for all else.

Windows 7 (non-pirated edition) will remain on my rig for a while.

[Daniel]

Windows 8 review | Operating systems Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/software/operating-systems/windows-8-1093002/review)



I was thinking about upgrading to Win 8, but all the things I use for my work are set up with Windows 7 and streamlined and working perfect, I don't want to necessarily mess up the ecosystem. Maybe the next time I wanna upgrade or have an OS failure/virus attack, and my PC needs a reinstall, I might switch to Windows 8.

I don't quite get the criticisms. From a desktop point of view, here are my counters to those criticisms

The start menu is still there, just not in the same way it was before. Plus you can have it back in ye olde Vista/W7 style if you really want to.
OK so you can't boot to the desktop, but it's one click to go into desktop mode.
You don't need a touchscreen. The OS is still great to navigate around with a keyboard and mouse. It's essentially Windows 7 with a touch UI mode.
95% of the time I'm using it I don't see the metro style UI so I don't really get that.

using it on a tablet, bearing in mind I've not used W8 on a tablet..... but anyhoo.

I can see how some people might find it a shock after using Android or iOs, but it really is great.

[Valve Bounce]

I don't quite get the criticisms. From a desktop point of view, here are my counters to those criticisms

The start menu is still there, just not in the same way it was before. Plus you can have it back in ye olde Vista/W7 style if you really want to.
OK so you can't boot to the desktop, but it's one click to go into desktop mode.
You don't need a touchscreen. The OS is still great to navigate around with a keyboard and mouse. It's essentially Windows 7 with a touch UI mode.
95% of the time I'm using it I don't see the metro style UI so I don't really get that.

using it on a tablet, bearing in mind I've not used W8 on a tablet..... but anyhoo.

I can see how some people might find it a shock after using Android or iOs, but it really is great.

Hey Daniel, so there does not appear to be the fears about W8 like I read in the news last week. Is the security better? Is it any faster? What other advantages are there? In Oz, I think I can upgrade to W8 for under $15, but I want to make sure that I am keeping this ultrabook first before I do that.

[Daniel]

W8 is speedy as hell also. I've got an SSD and the boot time is fantastic :) If you just put the PC to sleep as I tend to do these days, then the PC boots up instantly. In fact it takes longer for my LCD screen to come out of sleep mode....

[Daniel]

Hey Daniel, so there does not appear to be the fears about W8 like I read in the news last week. Is the security better? Is it any faster? What other advantages are there? In Oz, I think I can upgrade to W8 for under $15, but I want to make sure that I am keeping this ultrabook first before I do that.

There are people who are scared of all sorts of things for various reasons. There are people who don't like wide open spaces, people who don't like large crowds and so on. Personally I don't like being in medium size groups of people. I'm going for lunch with some ex-workmates tomorrow and there's going to be about 10 people and I'm stressing about it.

My point? Every time a new Microsoft OS launches, people will be negative about it. I didn't like XP myself, but that was because I was so used to 98.

[Valve Bounce]

There are people who are scared of all sorts of things for various reasons. There are people who don't like wide open spaces, people who don't like large crowds and so on. Personally I don't like being in medium size groups of people. I'm going for lunch with some ex-workmates tomorrow and there's going to be about 10 people and I'm stressing about it.

My point? Every time a new Microsoft OS launches, people will be negative about it. I didn't like XP myself, but that was because I was so used to 98.

OK! Just hope that you agree:I will be totally relying on you to let me know whether W8 is OK and I will then upgrade. Are there any bugs?
I am a little annoyed with my ultrabook, as the space bar is not working unless I press it real hard. I'll have to ring Toshiba bout that, or return it to Costco.

[Daniel]

OK! Just hope that you agree:I will be totally relying on you to let me know whether W8 is OK and I will then upgrade. Are there any bugs?
I am a little annoyed with my ultrabook, as the space bar is not working unless I press it real hard. I'll have to ring Toshiba bout that, or return it to Costco.

If you're worried at all, just try it in a Hardly Normal or something and see if you like the interface and then give it a few months till any bugs surface. For me there haven't been any big problems, but it might be different for individuals who use different software.

[BleAivano]

There are people who are scared of all sorts of things for various reasons. There are people who don't like wide open spaces, people who don't like large crowds and so on. Personally I don't like being in medium size groups of people. I'm going for lunch with some ex-workmates tomorrow and there's going to be about 10 people and I'm stressing about it.

My point? Every time a new Microsoft OS launches, people will be negative about it. I didn't like XP myself, but that was because I was so used to 98.

yeah I agree, it was about the same for me. I was using windows 2000 pro and it was very stable and worked very well.
So I didn't have any rush in upgrading to XP. I used XP until two years ago I switched to Win7 which I still use. I will still use it for at least another year or so.

[gloomyDAY]

I'll give it a try once I download a copy from a legal online site, and pay full price for this product.

[Mark]

If we are to believe Daniel then there is no point in Windows 8 for desktop as it exactly the same as Windows 7.

[Daniel]

If we are to believe Daniel then there is no point in Windows 8 for desktop as it exactly the same as Windows 7.

That is not an unreasonable statement :) I've been naughty and not actually bought myself a copy of W7 for some reason, which is why I'm going to buy an upgrade copy of W8 (I've got a full retail version of Vista I bought on the cheap years ago, so it's legal :) )

[Robinho]

so anyone reckon its worth me upgrading my laptop (only 18mths old and top spec) to WIN 8? for $40 for mine and the wifes machine it seems to be an experiment wortth taking - Iguess the push ofn the software is to make the hardware more attractive and boost sales of compatible tablets, phones and new PC's/laptops which are touch enabled. I predict pointless fingerprints all over my non-touch screen laptop!

[Daniel]

Install the preview.if you can get a hold of it :)

[Mark]

Of course the idea of having the touch interface on non-touch devices is to leverage Windows large installation on these machines in order to get users familiar with the interface. Such that when they are looking at a tablet purchase they think "I know Windows, so I'll choose a Windows tablet" - rather than an iOS or Android version. Only time will tell if this works out for them.

[Valve Bounce]

How good is a touch screen compared to a non-touch screen?

[Mark]

How good is a pig compared to a cow?

[CaptainRaiden]

How good is a touch screen compared to a non-touch screen?

Depends on what you'll use it for. For example, if I am to invest in a tablet, it has to be useful work wise, not just sit on the couch and scroll through Facebook or admire myself in my pictures. :p My current job requires a lot of editing and typing, and for which there's nothing better than a physical keyboard. So, even if I would get Windows 8, I would most probably be using it with a mouse and keyboard anyway.


This link might help out some of the guys here:

10 reasons why Windows 8 is great for traditional PC users | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-reasons-why-windows-8-is-great-for-traditional-pc-users-1107473)

[Daniel]

How good is a pig compared to a cow?
Completely agree. For breakfast I prefer pig and for dinner I prefer cow. They're two different things.

[race aficionado]

My windows are closed due to the storm.

. . . . whoops! wrong thread!

I wish the best to Windows 8 and I wish the best to my windows also.

Bare with my sense of humor (or lack of) thanks.

:s mokin:

[Daniel]

I think you are in the same position as Valve from reading that. I would really ask yourself if a tablet is for you and personally I wouldn't waste your money if you are only going to use it like you would a laptop. If you have cash to burn then great, but I remember when the first iPad was released there were people being accused of buying them and not having a legitimate use for it. I really had to justify the concept to people and many just didn't get the point of a touch screen device.

I think there is a point to touchscreen devices for sure, but do most people need a touchscreen phone, a desktop/laptop AND a tablet?

That's the problem for me. A Surface pro which doubles as a laptop and a tablet justifies itself to me a lot better than an iPad.

[Valve Bounce]

Depends on what you'll use it for. For example, if I am to invest in a tablet, it has to be useful work wise, not just sit on the couch and scroll through Facebook or admire myself in my pictures. :p My current job requires a lot of editing and typing, and for which there's nothing better than a physical keyboard. So, even if I would get Windows 8, I would most probably be using it with a mouse and keyboard anyway.


This link might help out some of the guys here:

10 reasons why Windows 8 is great for traditional PC users | News | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/10-reasons-why-windows-8-is-great-for-traditional-pc-users-1107473)

Thanks for your kind help. :)

[Don Capps]

Over the weekend, updated one of my notebooks from Vista to Windows 8. A bit of a pain to reload the various programs once again after installing Windows 8, but given that this notebook is used almost exclusively for my research and is the one that also travels with me, so not a lot to reload (Office, Acrobat, etc.). Took a bit of wickering on a few drivers and such, but otherwise pretty straight-forward. Nice that I did not have to re-do my printers and so forth.

Since I am something of a Luddite and feel utterly no compulsion To Be At One With Cyberspace, I got rid of just about all the apps. Plus, being unsocialable, I am neither addicted to nor even interested in Social Media.

I am a mouse and keyboard person and not necessarily all that enthused with my touch screen ebook reader (Nook color) at times, missing the buttons of my earlier Sony eReader.

I have found that once I got the hang of Win8 -- where to put the pointer arrow to get around, that the desktop is about the same as Win7 and, therefore, Life Goes On. I used it the last few days as I worked on my research and no problems on that front.

Really doubt that I will move my other notebook (or my wife's notebook) from Win7 since it works quite well. I only updated the one notebook since it was still on Vista and the price for Win8 was right.


Yes, I work off two notebook computers for my research. One in my home office and the other in the home library where my microfilm reader and another printer are located. Plus, despite several external drives holding research material, still have many linear feet of folders containing research material and notes (not to mention all the books...). Research is serious work.

[Daniel]

Over the weekend, updated one of my notebooks from Vista to Windows 8. A bit of a pain to reload the various programs once again after installing Windows 8, but given that this notebook is used almost exclusively for my research and is the one that also travels with me, so not a lot to reload (Office, Acrobat, etc.). Took a bit of wickering on a few drivers and such, but otherwise pretty straight-forward. Nice that I did not have to re-do my printers and so forth.

Since I am something of a Luddite and feel utterly no compulsion To Be At One With Cyberspace, I got rid of just about all the apps. Plus, being unsocialable, I am neither addicted to nor even interested in Social Media.

I am a mouse and keyboard person and not necessarily all that enthused with my touch screen ebook reader (Nook color) at times, missing the buttons of my earlier Sony eReader.

I have found that once I got the hang of Win8 -- where to put the pointer arrow to get around, that the desktop is about the same as Win7 and, therefore, Life Goes On. I used it the last few days as I worked on my research and no problems on that front.

Really doubt that I will move my other notebook (or my wife's notebook) from Win7 since it works quite well. I only updated the one notebook since it was still on Vista and the price for Win8 was right.


Yes, I work off two notebook computers for my research. One in my home office and the other in the home library where my microfilm reader and another printer are located. Plus, despite several external drives holding research material, still have many linear feet of folders containing research material and notes (not to mention all the books...). Research is serious work.

:) I'm going to upgrade at some stage. Will upgrade the wifes PC too as long as media centre plays well with Windows 8 as that's important as we use her PC lots to play iPlayer lots when we're in bed. How to Get Windows Media Center for Free on Windows 8 Pro « Operating Systems (http://operating-systems.wonderhowto.com/how-to/get-windows-media-center-for-free-windows-8-pro-0140019/)

[Daniel]

Since I am something of a Luddite and feel utterly no compulsion To Be At One With Cyberspace, I got rid of just about all the apps. Plus, being unsocialable, I am neither addicted to nor even interested in Social Media.

I have found that once I got the hang of Win8 -- where to put the pointer arrow to get around, that the desktop is about the same as Win7 and, therefore, Life Goes On. I used it the last few days as I worked on my research and no problems on that front.
It's great to read this btw, people on here seem to think I am some all knowing computer person and that just because I can use something, doesn't mean they can. Windows 8 really is just Windows 7 with the option of being able to use it with a touchscreen :) I'm not really using any apps myself, I find that it's far easier with a keyboard and mouse to just use everything as I did in Windows 7 :) That would change if I was using a tablet of course.

[Mark]

I'm considering upgrading the home PC from Windows Vista Business to Windows 8 - Does that mean I'll get Windows 8 Pro for the upgrade price?

Also has anyone tried LogMeIn on Windows 8 sucessfully?

[Daniel]

I'm considering upgrading the home PC from Windows Vista Business to Windows 8 - Does that mean I'll get Windows 8 Pro for the upgrade price?

Also has anyone tried LogMeIn on Windows 8 sucessfully?

Yep, any version of 7 can be upgraded to Pro. I would ask however, why do you want to upgrade? I can try logmein at some point :)

[Mark]

Cos Vista sucks ;)

[Daniel]

I thought you had 7

[Mark]

On my work PC I do; at home it's Vista Business.

[DanicaFan]

Im still using XP... :)

[veeten]

Im still using XP... :)

Luddite... :p

[DanicaFan]

It took me a long time to go from Windows 98 to XP...lol

I dont like the looks of the screen on Windows 8...looks dumb to me.

[Don Capps]

It took me a long time to go from Windows 98 to XP...lol

I dont like the looks of the screen on Windows 8...looks dumb to me.

It does look dumb and that is why I got rid of just about all the dumb apps that they populate it with. I go right past it to the desktop which is apparently the same, for all intents and purposes, to Windows 7.

Personally, I did not care much for XP and thought Vista was much better for my purposes, but I then found Windows 7 very much to my liking.

As mentioned, I only went with Windows 8 on a notebook that had Vista and that I just never got around to upgrading/updating to Windows 7.

I, too, tend to be something of a fellow Luddite, but due to my research work have to go with the flow when it comes to computers.

Sort of.

I still use Office 2007 and truly miss WordPerfect 5.1, which was about as good a word processing program as one could imagine.

[Valve Bounce]

Since I am something of a Luddite and feel utterly no compulsion To Be At One With Cyberspace, I got rid of just about all the apps. Plus, being unsocialable, I am neither addicted to nor even interested in Social Media.

I am a mouse and keyboard person ..........


.

Hey!! that's me. :) I'm going to check out Costco tomorrow and if they have the same ultrabook as mine on the shelve, then I will simply return mine, nick over to the computer counter and get a new (identical) ultrabook with Windows 8 installed for the same or maybe slightly lower price.

The only hitch is to uninstall my McAfee from the current Ultrabook and re-download and install McAfee into the new computer. Fingers crossed.

[Knock-on]

I think it's just the case of getting used to it. It is quite quick and intuitive but a ballache finding where things are.

With the convergance of Tablets, Laptops and Phone technologies, it is obvious that GUI's will become more like 8 but one thing I don't like is the way MS tries to buttonhole you to their format.

Overall, it will become the norm in a month or two.

[autoxgymkhana]

windows 8 serves as a phone-like device instead of typical computer device... its a new invention and everything is just doing so convenient... technology is always ahead than what human thinks, however, human creates the technology...

[Mark]

Been messing with it a little over the last few days. Actually Windows Server 2012. Seems ok when you get used to it. But rather strange considering its supposed to be a server.

The main thing I don't like is the border around the windows being too thick. Takes up a lot of screen space for no good reason.

[Mark]

Been messing with it a little over the last few days. Actually Windows Server 2012. Seems ok when you get used to it. But rather strange considering its supposed to be a server.

The main thing I don't like is the border around the windows being too thick. Takes up a lot of screen space for no good reason.

[airshifter]

Been messing with it a little over the last few days. Actually Windows Server 2012. Seems ok when you get used to it. But rather strange considering its supposed to be a server.

The main thing I don't like is the border around the windows being too thick. Takes up a lot of screen space for no good reason.

I've also heard that the large border distracts people to the point they often send duplicate posts. Can anyone verify this issue?



That's a lot of time between them too... maybe some lag in the new OS?

[Daniel]

I've also heard that the large border distracts people to the point they often send duplicate posts. Can anyone verify this issue?



That's a lot of time between them too... maybe some lag in the new OS?

Could be onto something!

[ioan]

I've also heard that the large border distracts people to the point they often send duplicate posts. Can anyone verify this issue?

That's a lot of time between them too... maybe some lag in the new OS?

You must be right. 27 minutes apart!
It might be a new record! What do you say Mark? ;)

[donKey jote]

:laugh:

[Mark]

Been messing with it a little over the last few days. Actually Windows Server 2012. Seems ok when you get used to it. But rather strange considering its supposed to be a server.

The main thing I don't like is the border around the windows being too thick. Takes up a lot of screen space for no good reason.

[cali]

Gotta like the last post :D

[donKey jote]

:laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

Well, seeing as though you're an IT person, someone has to test the compatibility of apps :) As far as usability and compatibility go, there's no real difference for desktop users, you boot into the Metro style interface and click on the desktop tile and you're in desktop mode and it's pretty much Windows 7 aside from there being no start icon.

I am having a helluva time trying to setup my replacement laptop which has Windows 8 :( I can't even get my mouse to work.
Please gve me step by step directions on how to get this thing to operate like Windows 7, Please, Please, Please.

[Mark]

Hmm, the mouse would be a pretty basic thing which should work out of the box? It's USB yes? Should just be a matter of plugging it in? Or is it wireless, in which case you might need to update drivers.

[Valve Bounce]

Hmm, the mouse would be a pretty basic thing which should work out of the box? It's USB yes? Should just be a matter of plugging it in? Or is it wireless, in which case you might need to update drivers.

I left the sensor in the laptop which I returned to Costco earlier today. I will go back to get it tomorrow. How do I reboot the laptop?

[Mark]

Push the power button and hold it down.

[Valve Bounce]

My better half hates this laptop, hates Wndows 8, and I will return the laptop this morning, and retrieve the mouse sensor at the same time.

[ioan]

My better half hates this laptop, hates Wndows 8, and I will return the laptop this morning, and retrieve the mouse sensor at the same time.

C'mon, you can't give up so easily.

[Valve Bounce]

C'mon, you can't give up so easily.

Sorry!! I have just set up my new ULTRABOOK which is blessed with Windows 7, and I am very, very happy again.

[ioan]

Sorry!! I have just set up my new ULTRABOOK which is blessed with Windows 7, and I am very, very happy again.

I was just kidding. Good to hear that it is all well again! :)

[Valve Bounce]

I was just kidding. Good to hear that it is all well again! :)

I just don't believe it. Windows 7 is so easy to operate, and then I had to endure Windows 8 for a couple of days. I couldn't get to all the places that I normally need to when I click the windows icon on the bottom left hand corner of the screen. I never found out how to get to the Control Panel. My new Ultrabook has an i7 core, and I am sure I will be given a scolding for having such a powerful contraption by Daniel, but hell! I'm happy :)

[Jag_Warrior]

My better half hates this laptop, hates Wndows 8, and I will return the laptop this morning, and retrieve the mouse sensor at the same time.

Sounds like she's not alone.
Weak Windows 8 Demand Saps PC Sales, Fujitsu President Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/fujitsu-to-miss-shipment-goal-for-pcs-as-demand-in-europe-slumps.html)


Fujitsu Ltd. (6702) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/6702:JP), Japan (http://topics.bloomberg.com/japan/)’s biggest provider of computer services, said the company will miss its annual shipment target for personal computers amid slow demand for Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) (http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/MSFT:US)’s Windows 8 operating system.

Initial appetite for the software, introduced in October, is “weak,” Fujitsu President Masami Yamamoto, 58, told reporters in Tokyo yesterday. Slumping demand in Europe (http://topics.bloomberg.com/europe/) amid the sovereign-debt crisis will also erode sales, he said. PC deliveries for the year ending March 31 may be more than 6 million units, compared with an October estimate (http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/IR/finance/2012h/pdf/20.pdf) of 7 million, he said.


U.S. retail sales of devices running Windows fell 21 percent from a year earlier in the four weeks after Microsoft released Windows 8 on Oct. 26, according to a Nov. 29 report (https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/windows-8-gets-off-to-a-slow-start-according-to-the-npd-group/) by Port Washington (http://topics.bloomberg.com/washington/), New York-based NPD Group Inc. The decrease has been fueled by a 24 percent drop in sales of notebook computers as customers opt for Apple Inc.’s iPad or tablets powered by Google Inc.’s Android software.
“We can’t be optimistic about the PC industry,” said Yoshihisa Toyosaki, a Tokyo-based analyst at Architect Grand Design, an electronics research and consulting company. “PC makers’ bet on Windows 8 has failed, as cheaper tablet computers are taking away customers.”

[ioan]

Sounds like she's not alone.
Weak Windows 8 Demand Saps PC Sales, Fujitsu President Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-27/fujitsu-to-miss-shipment-goal-for-pcs-as-demand-in-europe-slumps.html)

The Fuji guy found a scapegoat for their own marketing shortcomings.
Windows 8 PCs can be downgraded to Windows 7 for free, so how is Windows 8 the reason of the bad sales?
The way I see it is that most PC users around the world only used to use a PC to browse the net, to read and write emails, to read and write on various social networks and to chat/video chat on IRC, Messenger, Skype etc...
All of the above can be done on a smart phone or tablet now, so why buy a PC then?

[Jag_Warrior]

So you'd buy a computer and then have to downgrade the OS to make it liveable? :confused:

It's not just Fujitsu that's experienced sales declines (U.S. retail sales of devices running Windows fell 21 percent from a year earlier in the four weeks after Microsoft released Windows 8 on Oct. 26), but the part about tablets is the same thing that the analyst said in the Bloomberg piece:

"We can’t be optimistic about the PC industry,” said Yoshihisa Toyosaki, a Tokyo-based analyst at Architect Grand Design, an electronics research and consulting company. “PC makers’ bet on Windows 8 has failed, as cheaper tablet computers are taking away customers."

[zako85]

From usability perspective, Windows 8 on a desktop or laptop is just a bad idea. The problem is that Windows 8 treats a desktop user as a second class citizen. There is simply no way to by pass the metro gui. Simple tasks, such as shutting down the computer have become a lot more complicated.

The way I see it, Microsoft chose the Metro GUI as the Windows 8 primary GUI, and the old "Desktop" as just an application within this GUI to enable you to run "legacy applications". This is, in my opinion, insulting, as the "legacy applications" is what's most useful on Windows 8 as far as I can tell so far. The Metro GUI and its applications are half baked and very hard to use if say you have a laptop with a track pad. Most of Metro applications are single task oriented and were meant to be used on a cell phone. I wish there was an option for the desktop users, to make the GUI look like it was in previous Windows releases, together with Start button and other niceties, and leave the "metro" GUI and its applications only as an option buried deep in the start menu structure where it belongs. This OS will be a downfall of microsoft. I can't imagine recommending this inconsistent mess to anyone. Finally, there is a good reason to pay for overpriced Apple hardware. Their OS is excellent.

[Daniel]

Windows 8 is just fine for a desktop user....

[Dave B]

I finally tried Windows 8 the other day, on a 10" tablet, and it was.... horrible. Now admittedly that was based on a 10 minute play in a shop, but when I first used Android it was self explanatory, and when I've occasionally used iOS it doesn't exactly seem hard to grasp. This is coming from somebody who has used all manner of computers professionally and personally since I was about 9 (and that's loooong time ago): Windows 8 just isn't intuitive. It might be utterly brilliant once you get to grips with it, but I suspect many consumers simply won't bother.

[ioan]

So you'd buy a computer and then have to downgrade the OS to make it liveable? :confused:

If needed, yes. I see no issue with that.



It's not just Fujitsu that's experienced sales declines (U.S. retail sales of devices running Windows fell 21 percent from a year earlier in the four weeks after Microsoft released Windows 8 on Oct. 26), but the part about tablets is the same thing that the analyst said in the Bloomberg piece:

"We can’t be optimistic about the PC industry,” said Yoshihisa Toyosaki, a Tokyo-based analyst at Architect Grand Design, an electronics research and consulting company. “PC makers’ bet on Windows 8 has failed, as cheaper tablet computers are taking away customers."

I fail to see where does he say that it is Windows 8 fault? All it says is that the PC makers’ bet on Windows 8 has failed. It says nowhere that Windows 8 is at fault.
In fact he does point out what I said earlier that people prefer tablets to PCs.

How many of these PCs that the manufacturers have tried to sold with Windows 8 have a touchscreen? I guess less then 10%. So why would anyone buy one when one of the biggest differentiators for Windows 8 is native touch screen support but the hardware manufacturer didn't include a touch screen?

This looks to me like the manufacturers marketing depts having troubles accepting how stupid they were in their approach, so they looked for a scapegoat, the new windows version.

[Mark]

I think Windows 8 is just fine. The problem is that most aren't coming at it from knowing nothing. You make assumptions on what you already know about Windows.

[race aficionado]

How is the Surface tablet doing?
A lot of TV adds and product placement on many TV shows.
Any body own one and can give us a review?

[ioan]

I'll install a Win 8 virtual machine one of these days and see what all the fuss is about, I have no touch screen on my laptop but I should still get a good idea about it.

[ioan]

How is the Surface tablet doing?
A lot of TV adds and product placement on many TV shows.
Any body own one and can give us a review?

Didn't see one yet as I wasn't really curious about it.
I did however see a rather good Samsung Slate with Windows on it a few months ago and I would not refuse it as a gift. ;)

[Jag_Warrior]

doobel pest

[Jag_Warrior]

I fail to see where does he say that it is Windows 8 fault? All it says is that the PC makers’ bet on Windows 8 has failed. It says nowhere that Windows 8 is at fault.
In fact he does point out what I said earlier that people prefer tablets to PCs.

How many of these PCs that the manufacturers have tried to sold with Windows 8 have a touchscreen? I guess less then 10%. So why would anyone buy one when one of the biggest differentiators for Windows 8 is native touch screen support but the hardware manufacturer didn't include a touch screen?

This looks to me like the manufacturers marketing depts having troubles accepting how stupid they were in their approach, so they looked for a scapegoat, the new windows version.

Well, if it isn't to do with Windows 8 (the laptop makers haven't included enough touchscreen models, you think?) and it's all about tablets and touchscreens, then why isn't the Win 8 based Surface selling??? Something isn't adding up...


Detwiler Fenton, a Boston-based wealth management firm, said last week that Microsoft (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/) could sell 500,000 to 600,000 Surfaces by Christmas, far below its previous expectation of one to two million.

I'm not happy about this. I actually need MSFT to post some good sales numbers so I can dump my position. But it's looking more like yet another fine mess the bald fat man has gotten us into. If this OS (and the Surface) doesn't take off, mark my words, this will be it for Ballmer. The fat lady will begin singing for the fat man.

[Dave B]

I think Windows 8 is just fine. The problem is that most aren't coming at it from knowing nothing. You make assumptions on what you already know about Windows.
Oh I don't disagree that under the hood it's a fine OS. It just seems to be a solution looking for a problem. Existing users have grown used to the way that XP, Vista and 7 work and it's become the de facto operating system for the vast majority of homes and businesses. Obviously now the paradigm has shifted towards touch screens as mobiles and tablets become ubiquitous, and I predict an explosion any time soon in cheap reliable touchscreen monitors. But I think MS have messed up by assuming people want to interact with a PC in the same way they do with a tablet - they're different beasts for different purposes. By creating this Frankenstein's monster of an interface they've alienated those familiar with Windows, and over-complicated things for those looking for a slick interface to rival Android or iOs. Just my tuppenceworth, of course.

[Mark]

Maybe but Microsoft are gambling that most will go Windows 8 anyway due to their monopoly of the desktop. They will get familiar with the interface formerly known as Metro so when it comes time to buy a tablet the choice will be obvious... maybe.

[Jag_Warrior]

It just seems to be a solution looking for a problem.

From what I've read online and from what my girl's nephew (computer science/engineering student) tells me, you are spot on in that assessment. They've attempted to meet the needs and wants of all in one OS (with several confusing variants)... and what they've wound up with is the software version of The Homer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPuYGPcvD4

Hey! Now that I think about it, Steve Ballmer kind of resembles Homer Simpson. Ya don't think that maybe...??? Nah, couldn't be! Course, has anyone ever seen the two of them in the same room at the same time?! :eek:

[Dave B]

I had him down more as Dara O'Briain:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01434/Dara_O_Briain_1434808c.jpg

:p

Windows 7 utimate version are good

[Dave B]

Well I'm the proud owner of a new laptop and the not-so-proud owner of a copy of Windows 8.

It's a dog's dinner. You can't stay in Desktop mode, you can't stay in Artist-formerly-known-as-Metro mode. Instead you're forced to constantly switch between the two to get anything done. The UI is an unholy mess: many keyboard shortcuts don't work in AFKAM, the app store required me to install a patch to get working (a known problem, according to MS, so not exactly a great out of the box experience), apps don't have any intuitive way of closing them, and tasks that formerly took seconds now involve an extra layer of faff.

I'm determined to give it a fair crack, but I can see myself disabling the stupid Fisher Price interface very soon. I'm sure it's lovely on tablets - actually I'm not as it'll still keep kicking you back to the desktop for simple tasks - but on a laptop it's an unmitigated shambles.

[Daniel]

You need to associate the file extensions with performing actions within desktop mode, it'll make sense :)

[jefflawsonn]

As per my knowledge, windows 8 serves as a phone-like device instead of typical computer device... its a new invention and everything is just doing so convenient... technology is always ahead than what human thinks, however, human creates the technology...

[Mark]

Really?

[henners88]

Those are words to live by right now Jeff.

[whoisthis?]

I have built a small shrine to Jeff in my garden. I will worship it daily.

[Mark]

It seems upgrade to Windows 8 now costs £99 - haha, no chance. I'll stick with Windows 7. Microsoft don't have a clue do they?

[Daniel]

44.99 on amazon including media.

[Mark]

Nah, still a tough sell. I had managed to persuade my boss to spend the money for £25 but he's sacked it off now.

[Daniel]

It was only for a limited time. They did publicise it!

[Mark]

Apple are currently charging £13.99 to upgrade OSX, that isn't a limited time offer either. iOS upgrades are free. That's the proper manner in which to do things. Microsoft should wake up :)

[janneppi]

Apple are currently charging £13.99 to upgrade OSX, that isn't a limited time offer either. iOS upgrades are free. That's the proper manner in which to do things. Microsoft should wake up :)

At least at MS they're being consistent, they screw money on everything, yearly Office fee, what a joke.

I'm getting a Win8 laptop tomorrow or the day after that, I might have to get some beer also to help get the settings right on it. :D

[Daniel]

Apple are currently charging £13.99 to upgrade OSX, that isn't a limited time offer either. iOS upgrades are free. That's the proper manner in which to do things. Microsoft should wake up :)

But Apple bone you on the hardware so they can afford to charge less for the OS.

[Daniel]

At least at MS they're being consistent, they screw money on everything, yearly Office fee, what a joke.

I'm getting a Win8 laptop tomorrow or the day after that, I might have to get some beer also to help get the settings right on it. :D

Well, the office subscription isn't such a bad deal for the consumer. You get office for 5 PC's for £79.99 with cloud storage and you always have the latest version of office :) You also get 60 minutes of skype calls a month too.

[janneppi]

Then Again, If I'd get one for myself, the home/student version is much cheaper. I generally run a computer 5-7 years. 130Eur vs 500-700Eur, no amount of skype calling is making up for that. ;)
Does the cloud office have any offline mode?

[Dave B]

Apple are currently charging £13.99 to upgrade OSX, that isn't a limited time offer either. iOS upgrades are free. That's the proper manner in which to do things. Microsoft should wake up :)
Apple made their money upfront on the sale of the PC (a lot of money considering it's only made of bog-standard components in a nice case) - MS probably made a handful of dollars from the OEM licence. And most recent OSX upgrades have been more akin to service packs. You can't really compare iOS, no current mobile OS charges for upgrades.

[henners88]

Apple may charge more for the hardware but them and Lenovo are two of the most reliable suppliers to the market. I bought my first and last Dell and know what it's like to be on the receiving end of a poor quality device. I would never buy an Apple computer as it won't do what I need it to, but the advice our Solidworks reps say is if you want reliability buy a Mac. Sadly they don't make their software compatible with Mac and I don't have that much cash lol. Next time it'll be a Lenovo laptop for me. This topic is always going to be subjective though :)

[Daniel]

Apple may charge more for the hardware but them and Lenovo are two of the most reliable suppliers to the market. I bought my first and last Dell and know what it's like to be on the receiving end of a poor quality device. I would never buy an Apple computer as it won't do what I need it to, but the advice our Solidworks reps say is if you want reliability buy a Mac. Sadly they don't make their software compatible with Mac and I don't have that much cash lol. Next time it'll be a Lenovo laptop for me. This topic is always going to be subjective though :)

In terms of a desktop, a custom build will always be more reliable than an Apple or a Dell or a Lenovo if components are chosen carefully :)

[Daniel]

Then Again, If I'd get one for myself, the home/student version is much cheaper. I generally run a computer 5-7 years. 130Eur vs 500-700Eur, no amount of skype calling is making up for that. ;)
Does the cloud office have any offline mode?

Of course, but the advantage is that you get the latest version all the time :) It's also only really worth it if you're running 2 or 3 computers.

[henners88]

In terms of a desktop, a custom build will always be more reliable than an Apple or a Dell or a Lenovo if components are chosen carefully :)
Oh I agree.

[airshifter]

In terms of a desktop, a custom build will always be more reliable than an Apple or a Dell or a Lenovo if components are chosen carefully :)

But that often means letting others be the "beta testers" or hoping that you've chosen the right components. Even then, well spec'd components often fail and you can be dealing with RMA issues with multiple suppliers. Not to mention mass produced systems usually have any software bugs identified and fixed as they progress, where with a home built PC you might be one of the first dealing with that new OS or such, and sometimes the first dealing with any issues.

[Jag_Warrior]

Apple may charge more for the hardware but them and Lenovo are two of the most reliable suppliers to the market. I bought my first and last Dell and know what it's like to be on the receiving end of a poor quality device. I would never buy an Apple computer as it won't do what I need it to, but the advice our Solidworks reps say is if you want reliability buy a Mac. Sadly they don't make their software compatible with Mac and I don't have that much cash lol. Next time it'll be a Lenovo laptop for me. This topic is always going to be subjective though :)

You can run Solidworks (or any other Windows program) under Parallels, Boot Camp or Fusion. To keep from having to buy new Mac versions, I just run all the old legacy programs under Parallels. It's been almost two years now and I haven't had one glitch.

I agree with you on Lenovo. As many of their laptop machines are basically evolutions of the old IBM Thinkpad series, they're still really good products. My Thinkpad was the best Windows box that I ever owned. I'm (thankfully) not, but if I was in the market for a Windows box now, Lenovo is probably the brand that I would look at. And I also agree about Dell; based on the quality data I've seen, I would not buy a Dell.

[Lee23]

I would leave it for a while to let the dust settle on stuff like new OS with Windows, They tend to go in cycles, XP was great, Vista was shocking, 7 was great, 8 is......

Thanks for this information ....................

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Well I've just got a new laptop with Windows 8. I am no tech-head in anyway but I love the new start screen. It is the easiest computer I have ever used. All my favourite websites/apps are pinned to the start page so I am only ever one click away from them. It is super speedy as well.

Well done Microsoft. It sounds strange I know, but the quality of Windows 8 is making sway more towards the Xbox One over the PS4.

[donKey jote]

San Valdés ! :s

[Jag_Warrior]

I have to admit, I am now a fan of Windows 8... because the Windows 8 debacle (as well as the $1 billion Suface FUBAR) became the straw that broke the camel's back and (FINALLY!!!) got rid of Steve Ballmer.

Ding, dong... the fat man is gone!!! :bounce:

[janneppi]

After installing 8.1 the world is a much better place. :D

Boots to desktop, and the only time I need to switch to metro-side(to play solitaire) my desktop wallpaper is there too.
It's amazing how little needs to change for make me happy.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Help!

Why can I launch IE or Chrome from the desktop but none of my apps are connected to the internet on the start screen?

[Jag_Warrior]

I guess this explains why HP has decided to start offering computers with Windows 7 again.

[Storm]

After almost a decade on XP, I went to Linux (as my preferred desk/laptop OS)
But ironically I went and bought a Windows 8 Phone.. Nice phone/os and all (not that I use it to its full capabilities) but its pissed me off no end that it is NOT easy/even possible to copy stuff from my Fedora m/c to my phone! - I need to boot my laptop in the Win 7 that I had the foresight to install so I don't get screwed up by some Windows specific stuff (MS Office etc - but I have found LibreOffice to be adequate for my purposes)

[odykas]

It seems you have the Denial syndrome :s