Hulkenberg to Sauber: a big deal?

[keysersoze]

It's not like Lewis going from a multiple race-winning team to a team that is clearly struggling.

It's not like Felipe possibly out at Ferrari and either being left out of a drive or, at best, going to a 2nd tier team.

It's not like Sergio, going from a 1-win team to a 100+ win team.

It's not like Heikke trying to go from no-hoper Caterham to a 100+ point team like Sauber.

Hulkenberg to Sauber just doesn't seem to be an interesting move. It may not even be a substantial upgrade for Nico. Sure, Sauber currently has 110-odd points while Force India has 90-ish, but retaining continuity may be a bigger factor. I feel as if the di Resta-Hulkenberg competition was starting to get real interesting. I dunno. What do you guys think?

[dj_bytedisaster]

Force India was 'always there' with 'there' being the lower end of the points positions, while Sauber has three podiums already, two of those being runner-up positions. I might be wrong, but I think Hülkenberg would have had a better shot at winning Malaysia than Perez, who is still too inconsistent. The fact that Force India is so close to Sauber in the points is, because both Kobayashi and Perez have thrown away several potentially good point hauls by needles incidents, like Koba's boneheaded move in Korea.

If Sauber can pull of an equally good car next year, which is likely, because there are no major rule changes and next years cars will likely be evolutions of this years car, the move will be a substantial upgrade for Nico.

[A FONDO]

The Sauber is a weaker car but the team is better.

[Malbec]

It's not like Lewis going from a multiple race-winning team to a team that is clearly struggling.

It's not like Felipe possibly out at Ferrari and either being left out of a drive or, at best, going to a 2nd tier team.

It's not like Sergio, going from a 1-win team to a 100+ win team.

It's not like Heikke trying to go from no-hoper Caterham to a 100+ point team like Sauber.

Hulkenberg to Sauber just doesn't seem to be an interesting move. It may not even be a substantial upgrade for Nico. Sure, Sauber currently has 110-odd points while Force India has 90-ish, but retaining continuity may be a bigger factor. I feel as if the di Resta-Hulkenberg competition was starting to get real interesting. I dunno. What do you guys think?

The move makes a great deal of sense.

The Sauber this year has been an excellent car except on tracks that require great traction and braking stability. More importantly Sauber has a decent sponsorship package in place although it could definitely be better. Since the rules for next year are very stable (the ban on double DRS won't affect Sauber) there is little reason to believe the car next year will be much different, probably even better.

FI on the other hand is starved of money and while they've done a good job this year I think next year they will fall back. Ultimately most of the money to run FI comes from Mallya and it would be naive to think the troubles affecting every other bit of his empire isn't going to affect his F1 team.

So it isn't about looking at current performance, its about looking at next season's potential.

Also there are rumours that Ferrari has an option deal with one of the current FI drivers, since this is unlikely to be Di Resta its almost certainly Hulkenberg and it could be a move by the Italian team to get him to Sauber to assess him fully for 2014 just in case their primary option for their seat doesn't materialise.

[Malbec]

The Sauber is a weaker car but the team is better.

I'd say the opposite.

Sauber have squandered a lot of points this season.

Some of the blame has to be shouldered by the drivers with a couple of errors and difficulties getting the most out of the car's performance on both Saturday and Sunday. However the team has made a shocking number of tactical mistakes in both quali and the race as well as fumbling important pitstops.

FI on the other hand has maximised what it can get out of a very average car with consistently good performances on both the Saturday and Sunday. In terms of getting the most out of what they have FI have done a much much better job.

[zako85]

I also have a feeling that Sauber hasn't done the best it could with its car. We don't know all of the details of Hulk's move. How is his relationship with Paul di Resta?

I think his move is actually _big_ for Sauber. Having lost Perez, what are Sauber's options? I think Hulk is a reasonable replacement. Perhaps, it's a lateral move for him, but we don't know his contract details. Perhaps he gets better compensation at Sauber.

[A FONDO]

I'd say the opposite.

Sauber have squandered a lot of points this season.

Some of the blame has to be shouldered by the drivers with a couple of errors and difficulties getting the most out of the car's performance on both Saturday and Sunday. However the team has made a shocking number of tactical mistakes in both quali and the race as well as fumbling important pitstops.

FI on the other hand has maximised what it can get out of a very average car with consistently good performances on both the Saturday and Sunday. In terms of getting the most out of what they have FI have done a much much better job.
FI is a very strong car and the results in the practice and quali sessions show it. That Resta can't progress up the field in Sunday or Nico gets gearbox penalties doesn't mean the car is "average". The Sauber car initially struggles a lot in two thirds of the races but still manages to get decent points in Sunday afternoons - a bit like Alonso and Ferrari. Btw the latter are slightly ahead of McLaren in the constructors' points table, but their car has been more or less slower in every race.

[I am evil Homer]

I'd say the opposite.

Sauber have squandered a lot of points this season.

Some of the blame has to be shouldered by the drivers with a couple of errors and difficulties getting the most out of the car's performance on both Saturday and Sunday. However the team has made a shocking number of tactical mistakes in both quali and the race as well as fumbling important pitstops.

FI on the other hand has maximised what it can get out of a very average car with consistently good performances on both the Saturday and Sunday. In terms of getting the most out of what they have FI have done a much much better job.

That may be true but Sauber is a solid team with decent finances. FI are all VM and if he's in trouble (Kingfisher hasn't made a profit since it began trading!) then FI will cease to be.

[Malbec]

That may be true but Sauber is a solid team with decent finances. FI are all VM and if he's in trouble (Kingfisher hasn't made a profit since it began trading!) then FI will cease to be.

Actually I agree with you as I made clear in post #4.

However FI won't cease to exist if Mallya goes down, most of his empire with the exception of the airline is profitable and have potential buyers already circling like vultures as well as the banks looking to seize collateral. Mallya only owns part of FI now, Sahara bought a significant stake in the team last year and despite having financial problems too (like an $8 billion dollar fine from India) they are profitable and will simply buy the rest of the team of Mallya for a pittance when he falls.

Despite the future ownership of the team being secure though, the leadership isn't. While I don't like Mallya much the guy knows what he's doing in F1 and its very clear that the CEO of Sahara doesn't understand the sport at all and may not be interested in carrying on investing in the team to the degree Mallya has. If Mallya is deposed as team principle as well as losing the team then while FI will carry on existing I think it will fall back through the field over a few seasons.

[Malbec]

FI is a very strong car and the results in the practice and quali sessions show it. That Resta can't progress up the field in Sunday or Nico gets gearbox penalties doesn't mean the car is "average". The Sauber car initially struggles a lot in two thirds of the races but still manages to get decent points in Sunday afternoons - a bit like Alonso and Ferrari. Btw the latter are slightly ahead of McLaren in the constructors' points table, but their car has been more or less slower in every race.

I don't know how closely you follow Sauber but you don't seem to have registered their errors.

The team is often more than happy leaving their drivers out for three or four extra laps on worn tyres, losing more than a pitstops worth of time simply to skip a pitstop.

Their pitstops are on average 1 second slower than rival teams and they often make mistakes in them too costing even more time, like with Perez in Korea or Kobayashi in Valencia. In both cases the team went from a points scoring position (in Valencia's case a potential podium) to a non-points scoring position.

In qualifying in Silverstone where the car had the pace to challenge for a podium the team opted to send their cars out in Q2 on inters when everyone else was on wets and failed to make it to Q3. As a result the drivers started in the midfield where any hopes of getting a good result were dashed even before both made errors during the race.

This season Sauber are lucky that they are significantly quicker than the other midfield teams and that Mercedes have been far less competitive and reliable than expected. If Mercedes had gotten their act together especially with regard to Schumacher's car Sauber wouldn't be in a position to target 5th.

If you include 2011 then even more mistakes were made by the team made worse by a lack of flexibility reacting to new situations.

As a team FI haven't made anything like as many errors.

As for their car not being average, FI have performed much better later in the season but in the first half the car was barely competitive except on tyre wear where it has remained superior for the entire season.

[Stuartf12007]

This is a fantastic move for Nico, Sauber have a fast reliable car with a great set up of knowledgeable people.
Nico is on the rise, in 2 - 3 years he will be with one of the very top teams.

[steveaki13]

Might be a decent move for Nico.

I think di Resta might be relieved as Nico has been getting better and better lately.

[The Black Knight]

I just received a text that Hulkenberg has signed for Sauber.

[N4D13]

Yes - here's Autosport confirming it (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103888).

[Malbec]

Yes - here's Autosport confirming it (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103888).

Whats especially interesting is the fact that they've only confirmed Hulkenberg. You'd have thought if any Sauber driver deal was done and dusted for 2013 it'd be Gutierrez. Looks like thats not so.

I suspect they'd prefer to have Kobayashi for the second seat and are waiting to see if he can rustle up some sponsorship with Gutierrez in reserve in case he doesn't.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Why should Gutierrez' deal be done and dusted already. The Mexican sponsors did not make their continued support dependent on a Mexican driver.

[Malbec]

Why should Gutierrez' deal be done and dusted already. The Mexican sponsors did not make their continued support dependent on a Mexican driver.

Not in its entirety no, but I would have thought Sauber would receive a small bonus for having a driver with close ties to Carlos Slim. After all there would be no incentive for them whatsoever to risk a fistful of points, WCC places and $10s of millions of income on a new untested (in F1) driver.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Well, there are still people like Sutil for instance.

I think for Hülkenberg it is a good decision. If you look back over the years - Kimmi, Massa, Frentzen, Perez - Sauber looks like a decent team to be in if you look for a way into a top team.

[CNR]

Nico Hulkenberg's F1 future is confirmed, the German set to move to Sauber for 2013 | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/nico-hulkenbergs-f1-future-is-confirmed-the-german-set-to-move-to-sauber-for-2013/story-e6frfkp9-1226508456189)

"I'm really looking forward to working with the Sauber F1 Team," he said. "It's
a well-placed team and very competitive.

[steveaki13]

Good move for Nico.

I expect Kobayashi is most likely to get the second seat to have an element of stability.

However would love to see Gutierrez get a chance and see how good he is, but on the other hand it would be sad if Kamui was to miss out on a seat for me.