Lewis, quit using Twitter you fool!

[gloomyDAY]

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255073985493073920

Seriously?! I didn't know Lewis was a 15-year old girl.

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255074318478888960

This is the reaction (https://twitter.com/JensonButton/status/252771735957553152) from said driver.

[TheFamousEccles]

What a tool. It's because he's black, innit?

[ShiftingGears]

LOL what a moron.

[Robinho]

great driver, judgement and temperamant of a colossal ass hat, I really wonder what goes on in his head sometime, its like he's deliberatley trying to alienate people

[CNR]

lewis almost sounds like a twitter troll

F1: Hamilton gets himself all in a Twitter with Button | Sports | GMA News Online | The Go-To Site for Filipinos Everywhere (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/277326/sports/football/f1-hamilton-gets-himself-all-in-a-twitter-with-button)

The Briton left Suzuka accusing his Sauber rival, who spun out, of 'crazy' driving in trying to overtake him around the outside at the hairpin in Sunday's race
what a @#R$^TY&U*I( @@#$%^&

[Koz]

I wonder how Mercedes feel about this kind of publicity... I wonder how long they will tolerate this kind of crap.

I wonder what kind of drugs Ms Scherzinger is giving Lewis.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Mercedes certainly won't put up with such antics for long. Which is why the move could actually be a good thing for him. At Merc he can't play prima donna all day as Mercedes is going to have none of it, so he'll be forced to get his act together and if he does that, he'll be one of the best drivers in the field.

[Mark]

Mercedes certainly won't put up with such antics for long. Which is why the move could actually be a good thing for him. At Merc he can't play prima donna all day as Mercedes is going to have none of it, so he'll be forced to get his act together and if he does that, he'll be one of the best drivers in the field.

But; if there is one team you can point to for keeping its drivers in line, that would be McLaren!

[The Black Knight]

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255073985493073920

Seriously?! I didn't know Lewis was a 15-year old girl.

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255074318478888960

This is the reaction (https://twitter.com/JensonButton/status/252771735957553152) from said driver.

That's really embarrassing. Still, doesn't bother me really, it's his driving that does the talking. I don't really care about what he says on twitter.

This does suggest to me that there is tension in McLaren over his move and things aren't as lovely dovey between him and Button as it may seem on the outside.

[Mark]

I don't think it's so much him and Button, but it's been obvious Lewis hasn't been happy at McLaren for a little while, and so those tensions are bound to spill over since Button it staying put.

[spudrsca]

Mercedes certainly won't put up with such antics for long. Which is why the move could actually be a good thing for him. At Merc he can't play prima donna all day as Mercedes is going to have none of it, so he'll be forced to get his act together and if he does that, he'll be one of the best drivers in the field.

I agree and at Mercedes I think he will get along better with Norbert Haug, Brawn and Nico Rosberg thant at Mclaren with Whitmarsh and Button.

In 2009, it didn't start well between him and Whitmarsh when the team asked him to let repass Trulli and the fiasco after when Mclaren protested the results.
In Turkey 2010, Hamilton asking if Button will attack him, asking the team if there's still a race of if they hold positions.
They told him that they are both saving fuel but Button attack him and it was close between them when Lewis repassed him on the breaking zone.

And even in the beginning of 2010, Whitmarsh changing the race engineers organisation with Button signing saying that it would be that Hamilton would not have an advantage of knowing his race engineers he worked with since the beginning.

[Garry Walker]

He should just keep his mouth shut and be a PR robot like the rest of them.

Well, I'd rather he was a PC robot than behaving like a 11 year old girl. This is really embarrassing for him, he is a grown up man.
Someone unfollowing him on twitter... This guy must have really big self-esteem problems.

What an idiot, what a child.

[F1boat]

For once I have to agree with Garry. Lewis is a very good driver with the personality of a hysterical teenager.

[AndyL]

It was a silly comment I agree, but if he is behaving like an 11 year old girl throwing a tantrum, its best not to give them the attention they crave in my experience.

Good advice on internet forums as well I think :)

[steveaki13]

Sigh.

It was another silly petulant thing to do, and in isolation it would be an understandable incident, but Lewis is making to many of these.

Its not that serious, but it just makes his last days at Mclaren more trouble than they need to be. He is as fast as anyone and yet he is not exactly making Mclaren think they should throw everything behind him for these last 5 races. If he had more of a title chance, its not the best way to say back me up is it.


Lewis really needs to get his head down work hard for the team until Brazil, then shake hands and make peace, otherwise his days at Mclaren will be remembered on both sides as ending in bitterness.

Besides why would it matter even if Button had unfollowed him, teammates need not be friends and according to that, Jenson never followed him anyway.

Grow up Lewis & spend a couple of seasons just racing hard. All of his surroundings are ruining his career.

[Hawkmoon]

He should just keep his mouth shut and be a PR robot like the rest of them.


It was a silly comment I agree, but if he is behaving like an 11 year old girl throwing a tantrum, its best not to give them the attention they crave in my experience.

I don't think anybody wants him to act like a robot but he's displayed his immaturity a few times in his short career and been criticised accordingly. He is an adult in a very public sport and should act like one. Petulant posts on social media won't do him any favours.

I personally don't use Facebook or Twitter as I find social media to be an absolute bane on the collective intelligence of the human race. I can't fathom why any grown man would care in the slightest whether any other grown man "likes" him. That is indeed the domain of young girls.

[gloomyDAY]

I feel really embarrassed for ever backing Lewis. Ever since he lied to the stewards in Australia 2009, he's been a meathead. This guy needs to get rid of his crappy attitude, his blood-sucking girlfriend, and get rid of his 12-man posse.


I personally don't use Facebook or Twitter as I find social media to be an absolute bane on the collective intelligence of the human race. I can't fathom why any grown man would care in the slightest whether any other grown man "likes" him. That is indeed the domain of young girls.Well, that's a broad sweeping statement. I don't have any social media accounts, but I still tink you're erroneous. Breaking news (as seen from anywhere in sports to the Civil War in Syria) is posted on social media and allows the world to view and opine.

[Hawkmoon]

I feel really embarrassed for ever backing Lewis. Ever since he lied to the stewards in Australia 2009, he's been a meathead. This guy needs to get rid of his crappy attitude, his blood-sucking girlfriend, and get rid of his 12-man posse.

Well, that's a broad sweeping statement. I don't have any social media accounts, but I still tink you're erroneous. Breaking news (as seen from anywhere in sports to the Civil War in Syria) is posted on social media and allows the world to view and opine.

My opinion of social media is coloured by the fact that I work at a university and the standard of written communication displayed by students has been declining fast over the last few years. Most of our students couldn't put a coherent sentence down on paper to save their lives. Punctuation and grammar are things of the past and almost every email they send is written as if it is a Twitter post. In an email to a university it is not acceptable to use "u" and "r" as replacements for "you" and "are" respectively. We constantly have to quash rumors spread on Facebook that an ignorant student has posted. The students will pay more attention to an uncredited post on Facebook than they will to an official communication from the Faculty. That is why I think that Facebook and Twitter have made the world a less intelligent place.

[ShiftingGears]

Well, I'd rather he was a PC robot than behaving like a 11 year old girl. This is really embarrassing for him, he is a grown up man.
Someone unfollowing him on twitter... This guy must have really big self-esteem problems.

What an idiot, what a child.

Absolutely.

[Knock-on]

I don't twit or whatever it is but fair play to anyone that uses this medium. However, with instant global exposure, a bit of decorum should be used. People want to feel 'the pulse' of F1 and FB and Twitter fulfil this need but tweet with caution and don't air dirty linen in public. This does sound pretty childish and immature.

What happens on tour, stays on tour does not apply to Twitter and FB!!

[Malbec]

My opinion of social media is coloured by the fact that I work at a university and the standard of written communication displayed by students has been declining fast over the last few years. Most of our students couldn't put a coherent sentence down on paper to save their lives. Punctuation and grammar are things of the past and almost every email they send is written as if it is a Twitter post. In an email to a university it is not acceptable to use "u" and "r" as replacements for "you" and "are" respectively. We constantly have to quash rumors spread on Facebook that an ignorant student has posted. The students will pay more attention to an uncredited post on Facebook than they will to an official communication from the Faculty. That is why I think that Facebook and Twitter have made the world a less intelligent place.

The breakdown in the quality of spelling and grammar isn't down to 'social media'. Its like telegram English in that it comes from words having to be shortened to cut the number of letters used in a text message as traditionally people had been billed per text sent. This is something that happened 150 years ago and its happening again.

As for sites like Facebook and Twitter I think you need to use them to comment on them. They differ from each other tremendously but as both you and Lewis have found out you need to be very careful as news spreads very widely very quickly and if the information is inaccurate or misleading this can be a problem.

[F1boat]

Lewis does have a good relationship with Haug however

And with Nico, too.

[Mia 01]

And with Nico, too.

At the moment, yes.

[Hawkmoon]

You're entitled to your opinion but I think its condemning something you don't fully understand. Facebook is an important tool in my life to staying in touch with friends and family. I've met up with people I haven't seen for 15 years after finding them again on Facebook. You don't have to write a silly statement/post to be accepted and its not compulsory. Twitter is also useful if you use it in the correct way. I follow many of the F1 journalists, teams etc and much of the news is spread through such a medium.

The use of poor language and grammar has been around since long before Facebook and Twitter and I seem to remember text messenging being criticized in the late 90's for similar reasons. I'm sure you don't own a mobile phone and text people but its a valid example. I get the impression you are a lot older than me too so perhaps the generation gap appears between you and people of mine and Lewis's age. Saying that my parents are in their 60's and both own iPhones with social media accounts. :)

To put things into perspective, I'm 38 years old, I have a degree in IT, I work at a university and, yes, I own a mobile phone. I do use SMS but I use full punctuation and grammar when I do so because I don't feel that butchering the English language for the sake of expediency is warranted. I'm a fairly private person and have no interest in my life being on display on the internet and therefore have little use for social media.

I will admit that social media isn't all bad and can be of benefit but I worry that it's become so important in so many people's lives that they can't do without it. My cousin announced his divorce on Facebook for god's sake! His own father found out about it on the internet rather than being told in person. That's just wrong.

To get things back on topic, Hamilton seems to value his social standing too much in my opinion. Should he care whether one of his competitors 'follows' his Twitter feed? Absolutely not. It's irrelevant to his performance and if I was his employer I'd be concerned that his attention isn't in the right place.

[wedge]

Good luck to Haug, Brawn & co

€15m on this nonsense.

[Coulthard Fan]

GloomyDay stop using the Motorsport Forum you fool!
Every post I see from you on here are just trying to wind people up!
If you cant write anything useful then dont post at all.

[Garry Walker]

To put things into perspective, I'm 38 years old, I have a degree in IT, I work at a university and, yes, I own a mobile phone. I do use SMS but I use full punctuation and grammar when I do so because I don't feel that butchering the English language for the sake of expediency is warranted. I'm a fairly private person and have no interest in my life being on display on the internet and therefore have little use for social media.

I will admit that social media isn't all bad and can be of benefit but I worry that it's become so important in so many people's lives that they can't do without it. My cousin announced his divorce on Facebook for god's sake! His own father found out about it on the internet rather than being told in person. That's just wrong.

Views that I can relate to. I really have far too many things in my life to do rather than waste time on facebook or twitter (twitter being the more dumber of those two)

I can't fathom why any grown man would care in the slightest whether any other grown man "likes" him. That is indeed the domain of young girls.Yep.
Actually, the more I think about this, the more pathetic this seems from Lewis. I mean really, making a fuss about someone unfollowing you on twitter. Just no words for how pathetic that is.


It was a silly comment I agree, but if he is behaving like an 11 year old girl throwing a tantrum, its best not to give them the attention they crave in my experience.

Well, in this case we are dealing with an adult male. He should be ridiculed for this stupidity.

[Coulthard Fan]

Lewis is the nicest guy around he will do anything and everything for his fans. I remember watching his brothers first racing weekend at Brands Lewis was bombarded with questions about F1 and he said this is not my weekend its my brothers. He wouldnt answer anything unless it was about his brother.
Every year at Goodwood he will sign so many autographs it will get to a point that the organisers will tell him he has to hurry up and move on but he wont till every last autograph is signed!

I will always support and respect Lewis in every desicion he will make. It makes me so angry when you see fellow British people ripping it into him we should support our top talent and be 100% proud!

[Garry Walker]

I will always support and respect Lewis in every desicion he will make. It makes me so angry when you see fellow British people ripping it into him we should support our top talent and be 100% proud!

LOL.

[andyone]

its very funny how Lewis just said that one word and he is like a Devil.. that is what we were talking about. when Lewis does something everyone goes haywire.. he is a human just like anyone els there are some people here who can be even worse.. live with it and let him do mistakes as anyone else and that doesn't have to do anything with his permanence and Mercedes want to win and he is an answer to that.. just live with it and stop hating..

[andyone]

I will always support and respect Lewis in every decision he will make. It makes me so angry when you see fellow British people ripping it into him we should support our top talent and be 100% proud!
i agree. with you mate.. its all just hate. anything lewis does becomes extra bad.

[gloomyDAY]

GloomyDay stop using the Motorsport Forum you fool!
Every post I see from you on here are just trying to wind people up!
If you cant write anything useful then dont post at all.Don't call me a fool. I just posted what Lewis Hamilton stated in his Twitter. If you want to blindly support an ignoramous, then that's your call, but I'm not going to support someone who seemingly enjoys shooting himself in the foot.


i agree. with you mate.. its all just hate. anything lewis does becomes extra bad.Dude, just calling it how I see it. Lewis is acting like a prima-donna and it's a really tiresome to continue to defend someone who's in the wrong.


I will always support and respect Lewis in every desicion he will make. It makes me so angry when you see fellow British people ripping it into him we should support our top talent and be 100% proud!Well, first of all I know you're off your marbles because you're an actual Coulthard fan. :p Secondly, you have blind faith in a guy who hasn't delivered in 4+ years and keeps getting into hot water over inane scandals. How can you be proud of Lewis Hamilton? He's making a mockery of his fans!

[gloomyDAY]

I follow him because I enjoy what he does on track and I admire his driving style. Call me old fashioned, but I don't form opinions based on what drivers say in the heat of the moment or on twitter. Far worse has been said on this thread and I'm thinking of 'unfollowing' a few here.I love when Lewis Hamilton is blitzing the field. It's an awesome sight! That spark, I think, has eroded with time and I believe his off-track shenanigans have placed Lewis in a bad frame of mind.

[Robinho]

I'm of the same opinion, he was a breath of fresh air in 2007 and I liked his raw frankness off the track and his driving on track. but even towards the end of that year I saw red mist errors in his driving and questionable off track statements. Over the years I have celebrated his championship win and many race wins and I still maintain he is at the very top of the pile of the current drivers (albeit probably equal to Alonso, but his decision makingboth in and out of the car remains questionable, and some of the things he has said and done and his general attitude and demeanour have turned me off him. I still root for him and would love to see him string together another championship or 2, but he has been comprehensivley schooled on how I think a driver should behave out of the car by Button the last couple of years, and has IMO failed to blow him into the weeds on the track either. He needs a change of scenery, which he will partly get from the change of teams, but I think the entourage/lifestyle he has acquired and the new management team continue to fill his head with unecessary clutter and isolate him further from the racing fraternity.

The latest twitter gaffe was the icing on the cake. There is clearly a great deal of respect between Lewis and Jenson on track, and off track they clearly "get on" but I think its safe to say they are not buddies, spend little or no time together other than at team/sponsor events. Why Lewis would a). care whether Jenson followed him on twitter or not and b). take to twiter to complain that this showed a lack of respect shows remarkable immaturity from Lewis. They clearly have separate lives, interests and friends so what would be the issue in using Twitter in a different way from each other.

I hope he continues to grow from all of this, he is still a young sportsman who has been in the public eye for as lomg as he can remember, and sometimes he doesn't cope too well, if and when he does get his head together on and off track he is a force to be reckoned with.

as an aside, I recently did a track day at Palmersport in Bedford, and Nic Hamilton is one of the instructors there - my wife managed to swing it for me to have him as my instructor for the BMW M3's, and a nicer, more enthusiastic and helpful person you could not meet. I would like to think in that sort of atmosphere Lewis is probably very similar, but the pressures of his job, commitments and general surroundings cause him to come accross differently. I would like to see him enjoying himself just becasue he's a racing driver again, not arsing about moaning on twitter etc.

[Coulthard Fan]

Hasn't delivered in 4 years!?!? In 2007 he was 1 point of the championship like many I think he was cheated out of that championship!
2008 he won the title in the car that was considerably slower then the Ferrari FACT
2009 the Mclaren was so far off the pace it was unbelievable!
2010 he outclasssed his teammate throughout the year and had some bad luck like singapore for an example taken clean out by Webber and mark was given no penalty if it was Lewis who took Mark out it would have been a certain penalty!
2011 there were some awful descisions made against him in Monaco he tried overtaking but when fellow drivers just cut the front of your nose off and give you knowhere to go, you can't do much! Don't forget he was taken out by his teammate in Canada! The Red Bull was unbeatable that year nobody stood a chance!
2012 he has yet again outclassed Jenson!

[Knock-on]

as an aside, I recently did a track day at Palmersport in Bedford, and Nic Hamilton is one of the instructors there - my wife managed to swing it for me to have him as my instructor for the BMW M3's, and a nicer, more enthusiastic and helpful person you could not meet. I would like to think in that sort of atmosphere Lewis is probably very similar, but the pressures of his job, commitments and general surroundings cause him to come accross differently. I would like to see him enjoying himself just becasue he's a racing driver again, not arsing about moaning on twitter etc.

Didn't you meet Lewis at a BTCC meet? Thought you were there one weekend with me when I spoke with him during the Renault days. He had just smoked the field and was awash with pure emotion and happiness. He lived for the racing and although a very driven young man, I never thought of him then or since as arrogant or as some on here choose to consider him. Focused, yes. I don't claim to know him in any way apart from a few brief meetings but he has always struck me as quite a nice guy as does Nic.

As for this Twitter nonsense, I've said it was stupid but then again, he's a young man in a very high pressured situation and unlike us, doesn't have the luxuary of making mistakes that go unnoticed. I can go out wth my mates in uncoordinated clothing, get pi$$ed up, spill my drink, fall out with a buddy over something silly, make a tit of myself, have a pee over next doors hedge and fall into bed fully clothed before waking up to a horrendous headache and a even worse domestic. In fact, I do on a regular basis :)

However, if Lewis does any of these, it's front page news (or par for the course if you're Kimi) and Forums like this act as judge and jury of his behaviour, personal development and even his sanity!

Hard on the poor lad and all the drivers really

[andyone]

im trying to imagine The mistakes Grosjean has done this year. if it was Lewis Hamilton.. the whole world would have hated him... hmmmmm coz he is just better that many.. and it doesnt make some people happy. .lool.

[truefan72]

Didn't you meet Lewis at a BTCC meet? Thought you were there one weekend with me when I spoke with him during the Renault days. He had just smoked the field and was awash with pure emotion and happiness. He lived for the racing and although a very driven young man, I never thought of him then or since as arrogant or as some on here choose to consider him. Focused, yes. I don't claim to know him in any way apart from a few brief meetings but he has always struck me as quite a nice guy as does Nic.

As for this Twitter nonsense, I've said it was stupid but then again, he's a young man in a very high pressured situation and unlike us, doesn't have the luxuary of making mistakes that go unnoticed. I can go out wth my mates in uncoordinated clothing, get pi$$ed up, spill my drink, fall out with a buddy over something silly, make a tit of myself, have a pee over next doors hedge and fall into bed fully clothed before waking up to a horrendous headache and a even worse domestic. In fact, I do on a regular basis :)

However, if Lewis does any of these, it's front page news (or par for the course if you're Kimi) and Forums like this act as judge and jury of his behaviour, personal development and even his sanity!

Hard on the poor lad and all the drivers really


as evident by the 3 pages for this non story

[Knock-on]

as evident by the 3 pages for this non story

It is indicitive of todays media culture that we seem to judge our celebrities, politicians, sportspeople etc by their private lives more than their professional achievements.

In F1, a driver that is stupid enough to get manipulated by some wannabe F1 Journalist, a tweet he later retracts BTW, is fair game to be vilified it seems.

:(

[heliocastroneves#3]

I like his driving style but I think he's physically not strong enough to ever win a championship again.

[The Black Knight]

I like his driving style but I think he's physically not strong enough to ever win a championship again.

Mentally I think you mean. Physically there is nothing wrong with him. You'd be surprised. I am 31 and I can say my attitude towards life has changed an awful lot since I was Lewis age. We are all constantly evolving.

[steveaki13]

Hasn't delivered in 4 years!?!? In 2007 he was 1 point of the championship like many I think he was cheated out of that championship!
2011 there were some awful descisions made against him in Monaco he tried overtaking but when fellow drivers just cut the front of your nose off and give you knowhere to go, you can't do much! Don't forget he was taken out by his teammate in Canada! The Red Bull was unbeatable that year nobody stood a chance!


In what way was he cheated out of the 2007 title?

[The Black Knight]

In what way was he cheated out of the 2007 title?
Well he really should have been champion that year in China were it not for bad McLaren strategy.

[The Black Knight]

Hasn't delivered in 4 years!?!? In 2007 he was 1 point of the championship like many I think he was cheated out of that championship!
2008 he won the title in the car that was considerably slower then the Ferrari FACT
2009 the Mclaren was so far off the pace it was unbelievable!
2010 he outclasssed his teammate throughout the year and had some bad luck like singapore for an example taken clean out by Webber and mark was given no penalty if it was Lewis who took Mark out it would have been a certain penalty!
2011 there were some awful descisions made against him in Monaco he tried overtaking but when fellow drivers just cut the front of your nose off and give you knowhere to go, you can't do much! Don't forget he was taken out by his teammate in Canada! The Red Bull was unbeatable that year nobody stood a chance!
2012 he has yet again outclassed Jenson!

He has always been a quicker driver than Jenson but last year his magnetic attraction to Massa just put a hole in his championship challenge. I agree with you about Monaco as well. The Massa incident you can clearly see that Massa turns in off the racing line to block him. You're not supposed to do that to defend your position. Squeeze an opponent yes, block them no. If a driver is overtaking you, you can't simply give him no space and nowhere to go. The Maldonado incident, well I think that the point has been proved about Maldonado with the number of incidents he has had, and clearly that was Maldonado's fault as well. Some incidents were his fault, like with Kobayashi in Belgium, but in general I felt most of them were racing incidents and those just happen if you're unlucky.

It's embarrassing actually to see the gulf between him and Jenson in 2012. To think that Jenson is a WDC as well. Qualifying ratio of 12-3 in favor of Hamilton and the thing is even though he has had 4 DNF's which were not of his own doing and Jenson has only had one, as far as I remember, he is still 21 points ahead of Jenson in the table. It just shows that the table doesn't always show a true reflection of what is going on as based on performance this year he should be at least another 60-70 points clear. Even worst is that with the car Jenson has had over the last 3 years he has only managed one pole position. That's even more embarrassing from a WDC. He is nowhere near the class of Lewis. Not alone that but I firmly believe these Pirelli tires are flattering Jenson especially the ones last year. Lewis has found a way to drive around them pretty quickly at the start of this year whereas it took Jenson until Germany to finally modify his driving style to suit them better. Anyway, enough said, he is better than Jenson any day of the week and I think few can deny that.

I also feel that with Jenson and Perez on board next year that McLaren are going to suffer. Jenson probably won't win you a WDC without a car advantage such as he had at Brawn because it's simply not possible to have a perfect set up every weekend where you don't have to drive around an issue. Perez is too error prone so far though I'm hoping that will improve. Next year is going to be a tough one for the Mac's me thinks.

[Robinho]

Didn't you meet Lewis at a BTCC meet? Thought you were there one weekend with me when I spoke with him during the Renault days. He had just smoked the field and was awash with pure emotion and happiness. He lived for the racing and although a very driven young man, I never thought of him then or since as arrogant or as some on here choose to consider him. Focused, yes. I don't claim to know him in any way apart from a few brief meetings but he has always struck me as quite a nice guy as does Nic.



I'm not sure I ever met him, or at least not for long, I think we may have crossed paths at Donington in his F Renault days, and that year he was a class apart. You are right, then his demeanour was different, a young man (kid) enjoying racing, knowing that if he turned up and did his best he'd probably win. I think the realities of F1 ahve soured that pureness of racing for him in the last couple of years and I maintain that his off track decisions have added to that. He can no longer turn up and know he can win, he needs the car to be capable, he needs to get the whole weekend right and he needs to outrace a couple of equally capable drivers. When he gets it right you see that same kid, when its not perfect his head drops very quickly. Thats not to say he's trying any less hard or racing worse, but we can see his pain. Maybe thats a good thing, people like to see what is going on, but I think it adds to the pressure on him and can take him to a place like last year where his mental state affects his performances. I want to see that 2007 or even better th e F renault Lewis back, racing just beacuse

[Robinho]

He has always been a quicker driver than Jenson but last year his magnetic attraction to Massa just put a hole in his championship challenge. I agree with you about Monaco as well. The Massa incident you can clearly see that Massa turns in off the racing line to block him. You're not supposed to do that to defend your position. Squeeze an opponent yes, block them no. If a driver is overtaking you, you can't simply give him no space and nowhere to go. The Maldonado incident, well I think that the point has been proved about Maldonado with the number of incidents he has had, and clearly that was Maldonado's fault as well. Some incidents were his fault, like with Kobayashi in Belgium, but in general I felt most of them were racing incidents and those just happen if you're unlucky.

It's embarrassing actually to see the gulf between him and Jenson in 2012. To think that Jenson is a WDC as well. Qualifying ratio of 12-3 in favor of Hamilton and the thing is even though he has had 4 DNF's which were not of his own doing and Jenson has only had one, as far as I remember, he is still 21 points ahead of Jenson in the table. It just shows that the table doesn't always show a true reflection of what is going on as based on performance this year he should be at least another 60-70 points clear. Even worst is that with the car Jenson has had over the last 3 years he has only managed one pole position. That's even more embarrassing from a WDC. He is nowhere near the class of Lewis. Not alone that but I firmly believe these Pirelli tires are flattering Jenson especially the ones last year. Lewis has found a way to drive around them pretty quickly at the start of this year whereas it took Jenson until Germany to finally modify his driving style to suit them better. Anyway, enough said, he is better than Jenson any day of the week and I think few can deny that.

I also feel that with Jenson and Perez on board next year that McLaren are going to suffer. Jenson probably won't win you a WDC without a car advantage such as he had at Brawn because it's simply not possible to have a perfect set up every weekend where you don't have to drive around an issue. Perez is too error prone so far though I'm hoping that will improve. Next year is going to be a tough one for the Mac's me thinks.

I don't buy the massive gulf to Jenson thing. Jenson is definatley not as fast in qually 9 times out of 10, if the car is right they are very close, Lewis is undeniabley better at extracting the max from the car in less than perfect trim. But in races, save for a few in the mid season where Jenson and his engineers went down a setup blind alley, Jenson has been every bit the match of Lewis. It was nothing to do with him modifying his driving style in Germany, it was McLaren setting the car up more like earlier in the year. One thing that does flatter Jenson slightly at the moment is that it is possible to have successful races without outright pole winning qually speed, but to state he is nowhere near the class of Lewis is just false. 2010, 11 and 12 have shown them to be very evenly matched teammates. I do think Lewis is the better allrounder, but I don't think his is that far ahead, and on many occasions Jenson has equalled or bettered Lewis.

The jury is definatley out on Perez, he has had some good results and he definatley has some speed, but if he can translate that into results in a top car we will have to wait and see, in the emantime Jenson will provide a more than decent team leader, and whislt the line up may not be as strong as it has been for the last 3 years I don't think they will suffer hugely. Not as much as Lewis may do if Merc are concentrating on 2014 rather than 2013

[The Black Knight]

I don't buy the massive gulf to Jenson thing. Jenson is definatley not as fast in qually 9 times out of 10, if the car is right they are very close, Lewis is undeniabley better at extracting the max from the car in less than perfect trim. But in races, save for a few in the mid season where Jenson and his engineers went down a setup blind alley, Jenson has been every bit the match of Lewis. It was nothing to do with him modifying his driving style in Germany, it was McLaren setting the car up more like earlier in the year. One thing that does flatter Jenson slightly at the moment is that it is possible to have successful races without outright pole winning qually speed, but to state he is nowhere near the class of Lewis is just false. 2010, 11 and 12 have shown them to be very evenly matched teammates. I do think Lewis is the better allrounder, but I don't think his is that far ahead, and on many occasions Jenson has equalled or bettered Lewis.

The jury is definatley out on Perez, he has had some good results and he definatley has some speed, but if he can translate that into results in a top car we will have to wait and see, in the emantime Jenson will provide a more than decent team leader, and whislt the line up may not be as strong as it has been for the last 3 years I don't think they will suffer hugely. Not as much as Lewis may do if Merc are concentrating on 2014 rather than 2013

I disagree with that. I think the Gulf between Jenson and Lewis has been much more than the points table shows. You look at 2010 and on there was an average 4-5 tenths a lap difference between the two of them. It was only 2011 when the Pirelli tyres that really suit a driving style like Jenson came in that during the race he began to get closer. In 2012 Lewis is fully on top. I also believe that the Singapore GP would have finally shown how much ahead Lewis really is but unfortunately Lewis had his gearbox problem. I think Lewis could have increased his pace whenever was required of him as he was clearly only managing that gap to Vettel. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see it there.

Any way, we probably won't agree, but I still regard Jenson as an excellent driver but I would never view him as being cream of the crop like Lewis, Alonso or Vettel and I definitely regard him as the weakest World Champion of all those on the grid.

I don't think Lewis went to Merc with the intention of winning the title next year. He knows next year will be a tough one and I think everyone does but I do think he is playing the long game and that he is doing the right thing by making this move.

[Robinho]

I'm happy to agree that Lewis is the faster over one lap, and often quicker when the car is not so good, but I think Jenson's race pace is very close the Hamilton's in a high percentage of races. I'd fancy Lewis to win me a championship, but I think Button makes a damn good backup plan, and I'm happy to admit I prefer to support him over Hamilton

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Knock-on]

I agree with Rob on this one. Jenson has not benefitted from the tyres this year; quite the opposite in fact. He has struggled getting the fronts and rears matched and McLaren admitted that the setup changes they put in place to fix this was making the problem worse.

[AndyL]

I disagree with that. I think the Gulf between Jenson and Lewis has been much more than the points table shows. You look at 2010 and on there was an average 4-5 tenths a lap difference between the two of them

That's simply not true. An average difference of half a second per lap equates to 25-35 seconds per race. Considering races where they both finished in 2010, Hamilton's actual advantage averaged at 6 seconds per race. Out of 13 races where they both finished, in 6 of them they finished within around 3 seconds of each other.

If you're referring only to qualifying pace, which is where the difference between the two drivers appears to be greatest, it's not true there either. Could your memory be a little selective perhaps? You seem to be recalling only the 5 Saturdays where Hamilton was 0.4 or more faster than Button, and forgetting the 3 where Button was 0.4 or more faster than Hamilton (and the 11 where they were more closely matched). In fact the average advantage was 0.16 in Hamilton's favour. If you disregard the chaotic wet qualifying at Sepang (which I would not - it did happen, and as soon as you start trying to strike out "special cases" you're bringing pre-coloured subjective judgment into it again), Hamilton's advantage rises to 0.21.

[The Black Knight]

I agree with Rob on this one. Jenson has not benefitted from the tyres this year; quite the opposite in fact. He has struggled getting the fronts and rears matched and McLaren admitted that the setup changes they put in place to fix this was making the problem worse.

The issues Jenson had were his inability to warm up the tires to optimal operating temperature and keep them there. This is an issue Lewis overcame after Australia. It took Jenson a number of other races, up until Germany really, to adapt his car set up and driving style to manage this. It was a mixture of car set up and driving style. It was also a prime example of how long it takes Jenson to learn how to drive around issues he has. Good driver but not a great one.

[The Black Knight]

That's simply not true. An average difference of half a second per lap equates to 25-35 seconds per race. Considering races where they both finished in 2010, Hamilton's actual advantage averaged at 6 seconds per race. Out of 13 races where they both finished, in 6 of them they finished within around 3 seconds of each other.

If you're referring only to qualifying pace, which is where the difference between the two drivers appears to be greatest, it's not true there either. Could your memory be a little selective perhaps? You seem to be recalling only the 5 Saturdays where Hamilton was 0.4 or more faster than Button, and forgetting the 3 where Button was 0.4 or more faster than Hamilton (and the 11 where they were more closely matched). In fact the average advantage was 0.16 in Hamilton's favour. If you disregard the chaotic wet qualifying at Sepang (which I would not - it did happen, and as soon as you start trying to strike out "special cases" you're bringing pre-coloured subjective judgment into it again), Hamilton's advantage rises to 0.21.

If you have statistics to prove these figures somewhere please show them to me and I'll happily stand corrected.

Maybe my memory is being a little selective. I just see a driver of super talent in Lewis and a driver like Jenson then whom, while a really good driver, has been flattered by his team mate under performing last year coupled with bad luck. This year has really shown the gulf in class between the two and Jenson has been nowhere near Lewis for most of the year excepting an excellent driver in Australia and Belgium, which of course shows he can do it when the car is perfect for him.

[AndyL]

If you have statistics to prove these figures somewhere please show them to me and I'll happily stand corrected.

I looked the results up on Wikipedia. They are available for all to see, you don't have to rely only on your own memory of what happened these days you know!

Here's the list of race gaps Hamilton->Button. A positive number means Hamilton was ahead, negative that Button was ahead. Approximate to nearest second, only races where they both finished considered.
22
-30
14
-1
3
2
7
20
3
-36
75
1
1
average = 6.2

Here's the list of qualifying gaps Hamilton->Button. Where one driver went out earlier than the other, the times are taken from the last session they were both in.
0.455
-0.653
-0.839
-0.055
0.162
0.205
0.348
0.415
0.241
0.581
-0.139
0.415
0.343
-0.539
0.373
0.209
0.669
0.367
0.398
Average: 0.156

[The Black Knight]

I looked the results up on Wikipedia. They are available for all to see, you don't have to rely only on your own memory of what happened these days you know!

Here's the list of race gaps Hamilton->Button. A positive number means Hamilton was ahead, negative that Button was ahead. Approximate to nearest second, only races where they both finished considered.
22
-30
14
-1
3
2
7
20
3
-36
75
1
1
average = 6.2

Here's the list of qualifying gaps Hamilton->Button. Where one driver went out earlier than the other, the times are taken from the last session they were both in.
0.455
-0.653
-0.839
-0.055
0.162
0.205
0.348
0.415
0.241
0.581
-0.139
0.415
0.343
-0.539
0.373
0.209
0.669
0.367
0.398
Average: 0.156

Where on Wikipedia are they? I can't find them.

*EDIT* I am not sure about your stats, but if you look at the

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/

you'll see the gap in 2012 and 2011 the average qualifying deficit was 2 tenths of a second between Button and Hamilton which is what I would expect. I'm not convinced of your 2010 stats. I was pretty sure that the average was 4 tenths of a second in 2010 in qualifying.

[Robinho]

The issues Jenson had were his inability to warm up the tires to optimal operating temperature and keep them there. This is an issue Lewis overcame after Australia. It took Jenson a number of other races, up until Germany really, to adapt his car set up and driving style to manage this. It was a mixture of car set up and driving style. It was also a prime example of how long it takes Jenson to learn how to drive around issues he has. Good driver but not a great one.

That is the problem everyone has had this year with the tyres and why we had, what, 7 winners in 7 races. Jenson and Lewis were actually very close in Australia, China and Malaysa (up until the point Jenson and Karthikyan came together (whilst ahead of Alsonso and Perez IIRC)), after that the route that McLaren took to optimise the tyres made the issue worse, and you are right it took until GB to improve it (although they cocked qually up), germany was when the improvement showed, although what they did was return to the early season setup and head in a different direction. Lewis also went through a spell of being off the pace albeit slightly shorter, but if you look at the early races and everything since Germany they have again, as was in 2010 and2011, been very closly matched. Jenson has not done anything different, and whislt i partly agree with you, in that Jenson's style if best suited to a car with a narrow perfrmance window, whereas Lewis style is able to extract more over a wider range of car characteristics, I think you are overstating it for the effect of finding a gulf between the 2 drivers that simply doesn't exist. as I said, Lewis is undoubtedly the faster over one lap 90% of the time, but in races there is rarely much difference. I think the badluck Lewis has had this year is equal to the bad luck I feel Jenson had in going down the setup blind alley, that conceivabley lost him as many points

[AndyL]

Where on Wikipedia are they? I can't find them.

*EDIT* I am not sure about your stats, but if you look at the

F1 Statistics | F1 Stats | F1 Results | F1 Data (http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/statistics/)

you'll see the gap in 2012 and 2011 the average qualifying deficit was 2 tenths of a second between Button and Hamilton which is what I would expect. I'm not convinced of your 2010 stats. I was pretty sure that the average was 4 tenths of a second in 2010 in qualifying.

Surely I don't have to explain how to look up the results of a past race?

Go to the 2010 formula one season page:
2010 Formula One season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_formula_one_season)
Scroll down to the list of races and click on the link for report, e.g.:
2010 Bahrain Grand Prix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Bahrain_Grand_Prix)
On the race page, scroll down to the qualifying results:
Lewis Hamilton: P4, 1:55.217; Jenson Button P8, 1:55.672. Difference = 0.455s.
Then carry on to the race results:
Lewis Hamilton: P3, +23.182; Jenson Button P7, +45.280. Difference = +22s.
Repeat as required.

I didn't make these numbers up. If you can see a mistake please say where. Anyone can check the numbers.

[Bagwan]

I think Lewis should ramp up his usage of Twitter , and do some Facebooking as well .

This is all about entertainment , and nobody can deny his tittering on Twitter has been very entertaining .

[CNR]

Lewis vows not to be a Twitter twit - IOL Motoring F1 Grand Prix | IOL.co.za (http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/f1-grand-prix/lewis-vows-not-to-be-a-twitter-twit-1.1401101)
Lewis vows not to be a Twitter twit

The 2009 champion does follow Mexican Sergio Perez, who joins McLaren next season in place of Hamilton.
Button said he had done so to welcome him to the team but could not now 'unfollow' him.
“I'm not allowed to do anything on Twitter these days. I'm stuck. I can't unfollow anyone any more,” he said

[The Black Knight]

That is the problem everyone has had this year with the tyres and why we had, what, 7 winners in 7 races. Jenson and Lewis were actually very close in Australia, China and Malaysa (up until the point Jenson and Karthikyan came together (whilst ahead of Alsonso and Perez IIRC)), after that the route that McLaren took to optimise the tyres made the issue worse, and you are right it took until GB to improve it (although they cocked qually up), germany was when the improvement showed, although what they did was return to the early season setup and head in a different direction. Lewis also went through a spell of being off the pace albeit slightly shorter, but if you look at the early races and everything since Germany they have again, as was in 2010 and2011, been very closly matched. Jenson has not done anything different, and whislt i partly agree with you, in that Jenson's style if best suited to a car with a narrow perfrmance window, whereas Lewis style is able to extract more over a wider range of car characteristics, I think you are overstating it for the effect of finding a gulf between the 2 drivers that simply doesn't exist. as I said, Lewis is undoubtedly the faster over one lap 90% of the time, but in races there is rarely much difference. I think the badluck Lewis has had this year is equal to the bad luck I feel Jenson had in going down the setup blind alley, that conceivabley lost him as many points

That's not bad luck because it was within Jenson's control, he could have gone back to the previous set up or if he had the ability modify his driving style to get around it - he didn't. The 4 DNF's were out of Hamilton's control (though arguably he could have left Maldonado past in Valencia depending on your POV) as were the pit stop errors (I realize Button had one or two bad pit stops as well) for which were also out of his control.

[Garry Walker]

Well he really should have been champion that year in China were it not for bad McLaren strategy.Well, without Kimi having 2 retirements due to car problems things would have been different. And again blaming McLaren strategy, yeah, sure, it was bad, but the strategy didn't go off the track, Lewis went.



It's embarrassing actually to see the gulf between him and Jenson in 2012. To think that Jenson is a WDC as well. Qualifying ratio of 12-3 in favor of Hamilton and the thing is even though he has had 4 DNF's which were not of his own doing and Jenson has only had one, as far as I remember, he is still 21 points ahead of Jenson in the table. It just shows that the table doesn't always show a true reflection of what is going on as based on performance this year he should be at least another 60-70 points clear. Even worst is that with the car Jenson has had over the last 3 years he has only managed one pole position. That's even more embarrassing from a WDC. He is nowhere near the class of Lewis. Not alone that but I firmly believe these Pirelli tires are flattering Jenson especially the ones last year. Lewis has found a way to drive around them pretty quickly at the start of this year whereas it took Jenson until Germany to finally modify his driving style to suit them better. Anyway, enough said, he is better than Jenson any day of the week and I think few can deny that.LOL. What fanboy talk. Sure, in qualifying Button usually can't match Lewis, but when it comes to racepace they are very often quite equal.


I also believe that the Singapore GP would have finally shown how much ahead Lewis really is but unfortunately Lewis had his gearbox problem. I think Lewis could have increased his pace whenever was required of him as he was clearly only managing that gap to Vettel. Unfortunately, we didn't get to see it there.Was Lewis managing the gap also in the 1st stint when Button closed the gap by 3,5 seconds in 6 laps before they pitted? In the 2nd stint Button was also closing down on Hamilton and he too (like everyone else) was managing his tyres.

That said, Lewis is obviously the faster driver overall, but the difference actually is quite small. Before they teamed up I was expecting Hamilton to be more superior to Button.

[Coulthard Fan]

Can't believe what I'm reading JB is knowhere near the class of Hamilton one good season dosn't make him a brilliant driver!
He is an incredably average driver he is often far off Hamiltons pace!

I think Perez will beat Jenson next year.

Everybody seems to go on about Canada 2011 but forgetting the fact he took his own teammate out and Alonso in the process!

[gloomyDAY]

Did Lewis learn his lesson? I doubt it! (http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/lewis-hamilton-admits-maybe-twitter-is-not-the-one-for-me-following-series-of-gaffes-8207096.html) I've heard this rehearsed dribble from LH before, and I'm not buying it this time.


JB is knowhere near the class of Hamilton...At least Button knows where he is spatially to the other drivers, and doesn't have a tendency to crash into them.


He (Button) is an incredably average driver he is often far off Hamiltons pace!Button is a well-rounded driver, but I do think he lucked into the championship with Brawn. Also, can you please download Google Chrome with the spell-check feature.


I think Perez will beat Jenson next year.I'm a Perez fan, and you're out of your mind!

[wmcot]

In what way was he cheated out of the 2007 title?
By someone else winning ;)

[wmcot]

I'm surprised the title of this thread isn't "When Twits Tweet!" Lewis has great driving skills but little self control off the track.

You should be aware that anything you put on twitter is visible to millions immediately. You think he would have realized that last time.

[Robinho]

Can't believe what I'm reading JB is knowhere near the class of Hamilton one good season dosn't make him a brilliant driver!
He is an incredably average driver he is often far off Hamiltons pace!

I think Perez will beat Jenson next year.

Everybody seems to go on about Canada 2011 but forgetting the fact he took his own teammate out and Alonso in the process!

Which one good season was that then?

2004 where he finished 3rd behind the all conquering Ferraris?
2009 Where he won 6 races and the title?
2010 where he won races and finshed 5th in his 1st season at McLaren, just 1 place behind Lewis?
2011 where he won races and finshed 2nd to Vettel

and I believe that you are the 1st person to bring up Canada 2011 in this thread?

for an incredibly average driver he is on for his 6th top 6 championship finish and has won 14 races , placing him equal 17th all time and 1 race win ahead of one David Coulthard.

I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming, hell i'm not even saying he's better than Lewis, but he is very close to Lewis. A little bit of objectivity could go a long way sometimes

[F1boat]

Well said, Robinho :) Jenson is a very good driver, maybe not the best of the best, but among them for sure.

[The Black Knight]

LOL. What fanboy talk. Sure, in qualifying Button usually can't match Lewis, but when it comes to racepace they are very often quite equal.


That appears to be your general response when you disagree with someone but have no argument against it. Everything I said above was completely accurate. The fact that he has only one pole to his name in the car he has had is pretty miserable. Lewis has had terrible luck this year and lost a rake load of points due to those DNF's that were out of his control. He should be leading the championship. I'm not doubting Jenson's credentials as a brilliant driver but is he is good as Lewis? Definitely not.

[steveaki13]

Well he really should have been champion that year in China were it not for bad McLaren strategy.


Thats not cheated though, thats just human error. Just the same as when a driver crashes.

These things happen. If Mclaren bought him in earlier he would have won it, and if Lewis had gone slower round that corner into the pits he would have won it.

Nothing like being cheated.

He has however been in 3 title fights 07,08,10 and won one so its not that bad.

[TheFamousEccles]

Lewis is the nicest guy around he will do anything and everything for his fans. I remember watching his brothers first racing weekend at Brands Lewis was bombarded with questions about F1 and he said this is not my weekend its my brothers. He wouldnt answer anything unless it was about his brother.
Every year at Goodwood he will sign so many autographs it will get to a point that the organisers will tell him he has to hurry up and move on but he wont till every last autograph is signed!

I will always support and respect Lewis in every desicion he will make. It makes me so angry when you see fellow British people ripping it into him we should support our top talent and be 100% proud!

That's so touching. :rotflmao:

I've come late to this conversation, but this made my day, and its only 12pm here!

[Knock-on]

St. D's got competition :)

[Zico]

I wonder if those defending Lewis are younger than the rest of us?

I'm clearly so out of touch that while I attended college last year , I was utterly amazed at how big facebook etc actually is to the current teenage/early twenties generation.
It wasn't quite as bad with the guys but there still was a few checking their smartphones constantly to monitor the cybergossip . Their perceived popularity, actions and lives in general are measured and controlled by what (Imo) is a scourge on the current younger generation.

It causes so many rifts, problems, relationship issues, bitchfights that it should carry a government health warning.


Lewis, you are a fantastic driver but F1 is a mans world. Twitter and FB are going to cause you nothing but problems unless cleared by your managment. I understand that you have to keep up with technology advancements but lets face it, PR never was and never will be your 'forte'. Ditch it, or at very least have your comments pre-vetted, for your own sake!

[steveaki13]

I think if you are 35 maybe 40 and below in age, Facebook and Twitter are fairly normal aspects of daily life. I'm 30 and use both everyday, not for popularity or to boost my ego, but to see what my friends and family are up to and keep them updated with me. They are not a teenage and early twenties thing at all, and are used by people of all ages. Lewis is a young man (younger than me) and although he has to be more careful about how he uses both, it doesn't mean he can't. This opinion social networking should be reserved for the lower end of the younger generation is rubbish.

I used them for that and then realised I led such a sad life I never had any news of any interest :p : and worse still I wasn't interested in what others had to say. :dozey:

Seriously though I do used Twitter as a news source for sport and the like, but I do think those using it in high profile need to be more careful. Look at Lewis, A. Cole and Bertrand. All in trouble this week.

[Zico]

I think if you are 35 maybe 40 and below in age, Facebook and Twitter are fairly normal aspects of daily life. I'm 30 and use both everyday, not for popularity or to boost my ego, but to see what my friends and family are up to and keep them updated with me. They are not a teenage and early twenties thing at all, and are used by people of all ages. Lewis is a young man (younger than me) and although he has to be more careful about how he uses both, it doesn't mean he can't. This opinion social networking should be reserved for the lower end of the younger generation is rubbish.

I didn't say it should be reserved for the teenage and early twenties, just that particular age group seems to rely on it a lot more (ego etc) to the extent that Id go as far as suggesting that for some using it irresponsibly, it has replaced the more traditional methods of socialising... which cant be a good thing.

I also actually do have a FB account which I use to keep in touch with a select few extended family members/friends but I certainly don't have it linked to my Smartphone and nor do I have a twitter account where I broadcast/tweet what I had for my breakfast, who had unfriended me on FB, or if my boss was trying to disadvantage me by giving my work colleague a faster PC. I don't want/need to have social network gossip interfering with my studies or even affecting my career directly. Yes, I'm maybe a bit old fashioned but I'd rather be that way.

The bottom line is, and I'm sure you'll agree... that if he cant use it responsibly he shouldn't use it... or at least have it moderated. Its interfering with his value to the team and if it doesn't stop, the tipping point between being a valued driver asset to a team to being a PR liability for the McLaren or Mercedes brand, will soon be reached.

[Knock-on]

Can I just mention I have just had a Pollo breast over Enchiladas for breakfast in case anyone hasn't seen it on FB yet and was worried :p

Just thinking, when someone Twits, it's called a tweet so if someone makes a wally post, should that be called a Tw@t?

[Coulthard Fan]

Moron

[truefan72]

Might go some way to justify partly why Lewis was a little angry early last week even if it is reported in the worst British Newspaper the Daily Fail:


[/LEFT]

Lewis Hamilton the outsider: Farewell party backfires as McLaren go out with Jenson Button | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2217263/Lewis-Hamilton-outsider-Farewell-party-backfires-McLaren-Jenson-Button.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

I don't think its going to be the respectful departure I had hoped it would be which is very sad. Its difficult not support Lewis in situations like this and I want Lewis to win the WDC even more now just so he can leave with that number 1.

This just saddens me and I think it would have gone a long way of Button himself showed up to the event, but that's' just my opinion
As to the team members opting not to show up, this is pathetic.

And like you I agree completely with the desire to see him leave with the #1 on the car
shame on them

[truefan72]

Okay read the full article and if true, this is even sadder and more pathetic from mclaren.

It seems like they want to undermine the driver with a clear chance at the WDC for a guy who can't even get out of Q2
When tyour side of the garage can't even bother to support you, then what hope is left.
shame on them, shame indeed!

This is ending badly and may I say, most of the poor behavior is coming from mclaren.
Hamilton could have won Japan,but it seems poor decsions behind the scenes compromised him
Same with singapore, And TBO, I have little faith that they will do right by him here in Korea.

I guess they are not the super professional team that they make themselves out to be.
Alonso costs them $100 million, the WCC, and complete disrepute, but they still gave him a race winning car and professional service week in and week out.

Ron Dennis who directly cost Hamilton the WDC in 2007 and is more interested in his ego and power games is also a louse.
Usually proper Martin Whitmarsh can't even bring himself to praise hamilton or say five words about him in interviews, instead focusing on Button.

[Koz]

This is ending badly and may I say, most of the poor behavior is coming from mclaren.
Hamilton could have won Japan,but it seems poor decsions behind the scenes compromised him
Same with singapore, And TBO, I have little faith that they will do right by him here in Korea.

I just can't understand why they didn't send Lewis out again in Q1.
Everyone was ahead of him. He was extremely lucky to get into Q2. When there's a half a second between teammates and nearly a second off the pace of the RBs... This really does look like a stab in the back.

[donKey jote]

I guess they are not the super professional team that they make themselves out to be.
Alonso costs them $100 million, the WCC, and complete disrepute, but they still gave him a race winning car and professional service week in and week out.


And you believe it.
It was their handling of Alonso that cost them.
They gave him professional service until Hamilton whined in Monaco and roused the rabble. They also gave him professional service in Hungary where Hamilton's dad whined to the stewards to resolve what was a purely internal affair.
Alonso knew from early on what it was like to get the cold shoulder treatment at McLaren.
Karma.

[donKey jote]

Ron Dennis who directly cost Alonso the WDC in 2007 and is more interested in his ego and power games is also a louse.

fixed it :p

[ShiftingGears]

Ron Dennis who directly cost Hamilton the WDC in 2007

Is anything Lewis Hamilton's fault?

This is just a ridiculous statement. Hamilton choked catastrophically, ultimately he was the one driving the car and threw away a 17 point lead in two races, both through his own driving errors.

[Koz]

This just saddens me and I think it would have gone a long way of Button himself showed up to the event, but that's' just my opinion
As to the team members opting not to show up, this is pathetic.


Who knows... It says charity in the articles...

Maybe it was arranged prior to Lewis and his party at a bowling alley. From all the crap we have heard from Lewis over the years, you just never know.

As I've said before, McLaren have taken a lot of crap from Lewis over the years.
Would Flavio, Frank or Todt have kept him around after he has humiliated the team and himself time and again??

I really find it humorous that he can whine so much about having a ****ty car and yet moves to a team where he says he is unlikely to win a race next season.

I hope he does better in Mercedes, but I think he won't. Lewis is digging his own grave, I don't think he has experienced the real world or life for that matter. He has been pampered for so long, he has lost touch with how the world works.

Sometimes I really do think he is a candidate for Asperger's syndrome or some other form of high functioning autism. He just doesn't seem to think straight...

:(

[ArrowsFA1]

As an almost 50something social media is a daily part of my work life and when used well it is a great means of communicating with customers and friends alike. In these days of PR "management" it's refreshing to see drivers using Twitter to connect with their fans without their comments being pre-approved.

No doubt Lewis will be rather more circumspect from now on, but too often we complain about drivers not showing their personalities for fear of upsetting team & sponsors. We can't have it both ways.

As for the Hamilton/McLaren relationship, it's a fact (according to Nigel Roebuck) that some in the team have tired of much of his behaviour. That's perhaps inevitable given the length of time they've been together and the frustrations of missed opportunities, but even so it's rather sad if the relationship ends on a sour note. Clearly a good time for a divorce, but these last few races will be a bit like staying in the marital home after the partners have decided to split!

[steveaki13]

Correct. It was inexperience, poor team decisions and just very unfortunate. Not cheated though either as someone said earlier.

[Hawkmoon]

This just saddens me and I think it would have gone a long way of Button himself showed up to the event, but that's' just my opinion
As to the team members opting not to show up, this is pathetic.

And like you I agree completely with the desire to see him leave with the #1 on the car
shame on them

Would you show up to a farewell party for a colleague you didn't like?

You're a fan of Hamilton and see him in a positive light which is completely understandable. I do the same thing with Ferrari. Other people do not. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility to think that some members of the McLaren team don't like Hamilton. Throw in the fact that they'd already committed to another event and it's not hard to see why Hamilton's farewell didn't eventuate.

[F1boat]

And you believe it.
It was their handling of Alonso that cost them.
They gave him professional service until Hamilton whined in Monaco and roused the rabble. They also gave him professional service in Hungary where Hamilton's dad whined to the stewards to resolve what was a purely internal affair.
Alonso knew from early on what it was like to get the cold shoulder treatment at McLaren.
Karma.
+1

[Bagwan]

Okay read the full article and if true, this is even sadder and more pathetic from mclaren.

It seems like they want to undermine the driver with a clear chance at the WDC for a guy who can't even get out of Q2
When tyour side of the garage can't even bother to support you, then what hope is left.
shame on them, shame indeed!

This is ending badly and may I say, most of the poor behavior is coming from mclaren.
Hamilton could have won Japan,but it seems poor decsions behind the scenes compromised him
Same with singapore, And TBO, I have little faith that they will do right by him here in Korea.

I guess they are not the super professional team that they make themselves out to be.
Alonso costs them $100 million, the WCC, and complete disrepute, but they still gave him a race winning car and professional service week in and week out.

Ron Dennis who directly cost Hamilton the WDC in 2007 and is more interested in his ego and power games is also a louse.
Usually proper Martin Whitmarsh can't even bring himself to praise hamilton or say five words about him in interviews, instead focusing on Button.

I must say first , that your dedication to your favourite driver is truly admirable .

I must also , though , ask when you will accept that your favourite driver has some serious character flaws that polarize opinion ?
To be fair here , we should notice that the perceived "snub" was the result of the team members having previously signed up for not only another engagement , but one that was for charity .
The issue was not the snub of the Lewis party , but rather that Hamilton clearly , with 16 bowling lanes booked , hadn't been told of the charity event . If the full team wasn't there , it shows that Lewis is definitely no longer a member .

Sure , I look at Lewis from my armchair , as do most of us here , if not all , but I am not at all surprised that he is getting the cold shoulder from the team that gave him so much .

The article mentions that , within the team , Button is universally liked .
That's some contrast .

He's a great driver . He really is .
But , it seems , like his "on screen" personna implies , to some of us anyway , he's also a twit .

[Bagwan]

As a fan of Lewis , it is not surprising you see a "huge sense of relief" for Lewis and a burn for Mac .

The way I see it is that the Mac team are experiencing that relief , not Lewis .
He , along with being a fast driver , was also a huge liability , to the extent he burdened the team with a layer of handlers to keep him in line .
Even that didn't work , though , and he tweeted telemetry , a cardinal sin in the paddock .

Lewis had 16 lanes of belief that nothing was going on that night , when there are roughly 1000 team members around that might have kept him in the loop .

I would suggest that those he believes are with him , simply , aren't .
Maybe they were good friends with Dave Ryan .

[F1boat]

As a fan of Lewis , it is not surprising you see a "huge sense of relief" for Lewis and a burn for Mac .

The way I see it is that the Mac team are experiencing that relief , not Lewis .


I think so as well. McLaren, I think don't want to win anything with Lewis anymore. My feeling is that they want this season to be over and can't wait to try to win next year with Jenson.

[F1boat]

He doesn't seem very relieved for me IMO. He wanted to say goodbye with victories and now they seem not very likely, although things may change. He might be relieved, but only because he knew that some people in the team do not like them - and they were obviously important. I think that he is insulted that the emotional support of the team went to Jenson. Well, McLaren now will have Jenson as a top driver, so I doubt that they are too unhappy.

[steveaki13]

I think all sides will be relieved actually to see the end of this season.

Lewis - He will always be grateful to Mclaren for giving him many wins and title in F1 and would have loved to get this years title for him and the team. However with all thats gone on now. I think he will be glad to get to Mercedes and start again.

Mclaren - They would have liked the title I am sure, but haven't really given anyone the impression that they are busting a gut to help Lewis. Its more a case of they would give Lewis the best car possible, but no extra help. I dont believe any sabotage rumors.
They will be looking ahead and planning a Button title assault. They will be happy to forget the last few months, although neither they or Lewis have covered themselves in glory.

Button - He will be glad he hasn't got to play number 2 this year and will surely get a Button friendly car as much as possible for next season.

All in all, Lewis has lost the team through silly rants and incidents and the team have acted in quite a small minded and strangely unMclaren way.

All have blame and all will be happy to see 2013.

[Big Ben]

I never used twitter by it seems to me the problem is that it's just to easy to use... I mean, if even football players can use it :rolleyes: (not that I don't appreciate the opportunity of being constantly enlightened by their words of wisdom). they should make some changes, have them check boxes, fill forms, chaptcha, enter passwords... the whole deal and by the time they get to actually write something they realize it wasn't that important after all... and for the football players it would be like an IQ based filter.

As for Hamilton... who cares really? Is anyone actually surprised by this? It's just Hamilton at his finest.

[CaptainRaiden]

I think so as well. McLaren, I think don't want to win anything with Lewis anymore. My feeling is that they want this season to be over and can't wait to try to win next year with Jenson.

And what? Suddenly after Lewis has gone, Jenson will win the championship with Mclaren?

Jenson is not winning a championship again unless Mclaren come up with a Brawn GP from 2009 i.e. at least seven tenths to a second faster than the closest competitor AND Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus & Mercedes all screw up their respective car designs for 2013. Highly unlikely.

Finding the perfect car setup for Jenson to win a race is like sitting in front of a slot machine in a casino every weekend. Put your coin in, pull the lever and pray to hit the jackpot. If not, it's your usual underwhelming midfield run.

[gloomyDAY]

Finding the perfect car setup for Jenson to win a race is like sitting in front of a slot machine in a casino every weekend. Put your coin in, pull the lever and pray to hit the jackpot. If not, it's your usual underwhelming midfield run.Nice. :D

I'm stealing this from you.

[F1boat]

I think all sides will be relieved actually to see the end of this season.

Lewis - He will always be grateful to Mclaren for giving him many wins and title in F1 and would have loved to get this years title for him and the team. However with all thats gone on now. I think he will be glad to get to Mercedes and start again.

Mclaren - They would have liked the title I am sure, but haven't really given anyone the impression that they are busting a gut to help Lewis. Its more a case of they would give Lewis the best car possible, but no extra help. I dont believe any sabotage rumors.
They will be looking ahead and planning a Button title assault. They will be happy to forget the last few months, although neither they or Lewis have covered themselves in glory.

Button - He will be glad he hasn't got to play number 2 this year and will surely get a Button friendly car as much as possible for next season.

All in all, Lewis has lost the team through silly rants and incidents and the team have acted in quite a small minded and strangely unMclaren way.

All have blame and all will be happy to see 2013.

Wonderful post, Aki. :)

[F1boat]

And what? Suddenly after Lewis has gone, Jenson will win the championship with Mclaren?

Jenson is not winning a championship again unless Mclaren come up with a Brawn GP from 2009 i.e. at least seven tenths to a second faster than the closest competitor AND Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus & Mercedes all screw up their respective car designs for 2013. Highly unlikely.

Finding the perfect car setup for Jenson to win a race is like sitting in front of a slot machine in a casino every weekend. Put your coin in, pull the lever and pray to hit the jackpot. If not, it's your usual underwhelming midfield run.

Time will tell what will happen. But the Brawn did enjoy their advantage only in the first third of the season and it was not 7 tenths of a second... Red Bull were quite competitive since Oz, but Vettel crashed in Kubica in race 1 and got a grid penalty for race 2, so he was unable to show his true pace.

[CaptainRaiden]

Time will tell what will happen. But the Brawn did enjoy their advantage only in the first third of the season and it was not 7 tenths of a second... Red Bull were quite competitive since Oz, but Vettel crashed in Kubica in race 1 and got a grid penalty for race 2, so he was unable to show his true pace.

Brawn won 8 out of the 17 races in 2009, that's almost half of the races. It's not the car's fault that Jenson pretty much sucked in the second half of the season and Rubens did a better job. Judging by recent form, any of the top tier drivers, i.e. Alonso or Lewis would have wiped the competition clean in that car.

Button's pole position time in the Brawn was 6 tenths quicker than Vettel's Red Bull at Australia. Alonso or Lewis very well could have squeaked a couple of tenths more. So yes, that car was mighty quick.

I know you're a Button fan and all boat, but let's face it, he's a fair weather driver and lacks the ability of an Alonso or Hamilton to drive around setup issues. Setup wise he hit the jackpot twice this year at Australia and Belgium. The rest of the time where was he really? Finishing out of the points multiple times, whereas Lewis has been racking up pole positions and been near the podium almost all the time, and would have had four wins this year, and still in the title hunt, if not for the Singapore DNF and Mclaren pit stop brain farts throughout the year.

Mclaren better pray and hope that Perez is the next Senna and all the brilliance he's been showing is not just down to the Sauber, and that Button learns to adapt his driving style around setup issues, or else it looks highly likely they're in for another long, dry spell as far as WCC and WDC goes.

[CaptainRaiden]

Mclaren - They will be looking ahead and planning a Button title assault. They will be happy to forget the last few months, although neither they or Lewis have covered themselves in glory.

For that "assault" to happen, Mclaren will have to give Button a ridiculously fast and easy handling car. Good luck to them!


Button - He will be glad he hasn't got to play number 2 this year and will surely get a Button friendly car as much as possible for next season.

Button never had to play number 2 during his time at Mclaren, ever. If anything, MW has been accused by Mclaren fans of favoring Button over Lewis.

This year's car was Button friendly. It's just that Button struggles with setup issues, always has, and is not consistent enough over a season.

I don't believe for a second that an F1 team designs or sets up a car around only one of their drivers, because they're in it for the WCC as well. They're not gonna put all their eggs in one basket to have their second driver (who they are paying millions) struggle to even get into Q3.

[The Black Knight]

Brawn won 8 out of the 17 races in 2009, that's almost half of the races. It's not the car's fault that Jenson pretty much sucked in the second half of the season and Rubens did a better job. Judging by recent form, any of the top tier drivers, i.e. Alonso or Lewis would have wiped the competition clean in that car.

Button's pole position time in the Brawn was 6 tenths quicker than Vettel's Red Bull at Australia. Alonso or Lewis very well could have squeaked a couple of tenths more. So yes, that car was mighty quick.

I know you're a Button fan and all boat, but let's face it, he's a fair weather driver and lacks the ability of an Alonso or Hamilton to drive around setup issues. Setup wise he hit the jackpot twice this year at Australia and Belgium. The rest of the time where was he really? Finishing out of the points multiple times, whereas Lewis has been racking up pole positions and been near the podium almost all the time, and would have had four wins this year, and still in the title hunt, if not for the Singapore DNF and Mclaren pit stop brain farts throughout the year.

Mclaren better pray and hope that Perez is the next Senna and all the brilliance he's been showing is not just down to the Sauber, and that Button learns to adapt his driving style around setup issues, or else it looks highly likely they're in for another long, dry spell as far as WCC and WDC goes.

I agree with all this. Hamilton has wiped the floor with Button this year. He'd be on for his second WDC now were it now for Singapore, Germany, Maldumbado in Valencia, Japan again not his fault, Bahrain and other pit stop blunders. It's amazing he's only 52 points off the lead.

[F1boat]

or else it looks highly likely they're in for another long, dry spell as far as WCC and WDC goes.

They are already in long dry spell with Lewis... but OK, I forgot, it's never Lewis fault, McLaren sabotage him ;)

[Big Ben]

Oh well... he also lost one for them the previous year so lets call them even :p

[CaptainRaiden]

They are already in long dry spell with Lewis... but OK, I forgot, it's never Lewis fault, McLaren sabotage him ;)

Where did I say Mclaren sabotaged him? Anybody who seriously believes sabotaging theories in Formula 1 is a grade A idiot.

2011 was clearly an off year for Lewis, but otherwise he's been a solid contender, even getting two victories in a crapola of a car in 2009.

Or are you saying Mclaren have been making championship winning cars all these years and he's not delivering? Well, he's clearly doing much better than Button, so that must mean Button is a God-awful driver.

[CaptainRaiden]

I agree with all this. Hamilton has wiped the floor with Button this year. He'd be on for his second WDC now were it now for Singapore, Germany, Maldumbado in Valencia, Japan again not his fault, Bahrain and other pit stop blunders. It's amazing he's only 52 points off the lead.

Couldn't agree more. There have been weekends where he has steamrolled the competition and Button has struggled to even get into top 5.

Even though Lewis may struggle with Mercedes, but looking at how Mclaren's mistakes have cost him points, I can understand his decision to leave the team.


He's given them their only World Championship in nearly 14 years.

^ This.

Another point I want to add is that looking at this year's form, both Perez and Button are awful qualifiers, depending more on their race pace. Mclaren are gonna miss Lewis' raw pace to put the car higher up on the grid. There are always chances of more tangling and crashes happening in the midfield.

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh well... he also lost one for them the previous year so lets call them even :p

Oh, you mean his rookie year in 2007? The one where he beat a two-time world champion and almost won the championship in his first year in Formula 1? :p

Queue in Mclaren sabotaging Alonso theories. Yep, pay him millions, spend millions setting up the car, and then put sand in his fuel pump. Makes perfect sense.

[Malbec]

Mclaren better pray and hope that Perez is the next Senna and all the brilliance he's been showing is not just down to the Sauber, and that Button learns to adapt his driving style around setup issues, or else it looks highly likely they're in for another long, dry spell as far as WCC and WDC goes.

I'm willing to bet Button is going to make Perez look very average next year...

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm willing to bet Button is going to make Perez look very average next year...

He just might. It's gonna be interesting to see. The Mclaren sure seems to be a harder car on tires compared to the Sauber. Judging by this year's form of both Perez and Button, if Mclaren fail to deliver a spectacular car, they could very well struggle with two very inconsistent drivers.

[The Black Knight]

Oh, you mean his rookie year in 2007? The one where he beat a two-time world champion and almost won the championship in his first year in Formula 1? :p

Queue in Mclaren sabotaging Alonso theories. Yep, pay him millions, spend millions setting up the car, and then put sand in his fuel pump. Makes perfect sense.

Yep, unfortunately there are idiots out there who actually believe that McLaren were sabotaging Alonso in 2007. Fact is that Alonso just wasn't good enough to beat the rookie. Hamilton is a great driver and he has shown that on many an occasion. I do believe that Alonso is a better driver now than in 2007, I'm sure Hamilton is as well, and even though Alonso has proven his worth in Ferrari, I'm still skeptical, despite his now seemingly more mature demeanor, about his on his ability to put up with a teammate like Hamilton in 2007 should someone really put it up to him like that again. It's probably the only thing Alonso has left to prove.

[Malbec]

He just might. It's gonna be interesting to see. The Mclaren sure seems to be a harder car on tires compared to the Sauber. Judging by this year's form of both Perez and Button, if Mclaren fail to deliver a spectacular car, they could very well struggle with two very inconsistent drivers.

Actually I think labelling Jenson as inconsistent is unfair. His pace definitely fluctuates but he has an unerring 'get you home' capability to score points wherever he starts from. Also I think he has changed since the tail end of 2009 when I think he found it difficult to not buckle under the pressure of chasing his first WDC.

However I think next season the thing everyone will be thinking will be "what could Lewis have done in that car?".

[The Black Knight]

Actually I think labelling Jenson as inconsistent is unfair. His pace definitely fluctuates but he has an unerring 'get you home' capability to score points wherever he starts from. Also I think he has changed since the tail end of 2009 when I think he found it difficult to not buckle under the pressure of chasing his first WDC.

However I think next season the thing everyone will be thinking will be "what could Lewis have done in that car?".

I wouldn't label him as inconsistent, I think his form is pretty stable. I just think that his form isn't never good enough to drive around issues he has with the car. So yeah, he is consistent form wise, but because he can't raise his game when faced with an unstable car, where he ends up at the end of the weekend can fluctuate massively.

[CaptainRaiden]

Actually I think labelling Jenson as inconsistent is unfair. His pace definitely fluctuates but he has an unerring 'get you home' capability to score points wherever he starts from. Also I think he has changed since the tail end of 2009 when I think he found it difficult to not buckle under the pressure of chasing his first WDC.

I'd say 2010 and 2011 were much better years for Jenson consistency wise. 2012 has just been a one sided ass whooping by Lewis unfortunately (in qualifying more so). The way Button has struggled with his car's setup this year has been puzzling to many, including me, because judging from his form in 2011, I thought he would be consistently somewhere around Lewis (if not ahead) this year.


However I think next season the thing everyone will be thinking will be "what could Lewis have done in that car?".

That is inevitable every time a top tier driver leaves a team. Just a couple of weeks ago I saw the has-been JV commenting on how Kimi and Romain are underwhelming in the Lotus, and that someone like Alonso or Lewis would have won the championship in that car.

[Bagwan]

There will always , at every team , be a number one driver , and a number two .

They will always , at every team , tell each of the drivers they are number one , or at least an "equal" number one . And , neither will like to be told , even , that they are anything but number one , not one "B" , and not the second number one .

But , as with any venture involving human beings , one might be more likeable , as seems to be in Hamilton's case . It would seem Lewis is faster , but they fell out of love with him .
Jensen had his time as a playboy , and is now a good corporate image , whereas Lewis is a lot of work .

Jensen's rep here for not being adaptable is something of which a lot of guys could be accused .
These cars are not easy to drive , and it is very easy to move a design towards one driver's preference , and away from the other's .
Nobody could drive Fernando's Renault like Fernando . Nobody could drive Michael's Ferrari like Michael .

It's not all about being adaptable , if it's your car .
I'm not saying it was necessarily intentional that they made a car that suits the Lewis style , but it seems they did .
It certainly stumped Jensen and his engineers .

Hey , maybe Lewis is a genius , and could win driving a golf cart .
I know Mercedes is hoping so .


By the way , is Lewis doing any tweeting these days ?

[CaptainRaiden]

There will always , at every team , be a number one driver , and a number two .

I really don't see the front running teams establishing such hierarchy, apart from Ferrari of course. Button and Lewis are free to fight each other as long as they don't crash. We have seen that many times.


They will always , at every team , tell each of the drivers they are number one , or at least an "equal" number one . And , neither will like to be told , even , that they are anything but number one , not one "B" , and not the second number one .

Do you have inside knowledge regarding this? Or is it just assumption based on some fantasy world of F1? I don't think an F1 team employs a driver, pays them millions over a multiple years contract, spends a million every race on their car just to get them to act second fiddle. Even a team like Ferrari has only favored one of their drivers who mathematically has a better chance of winning the championship.


But , as with any venture involving human beings , one might be more likeable , as seems to be in Hamilton's case . It would seem Lewis is faster , but they fell out of love with him .
Jensen had his time as a playboy , and is now a good corporate image , whereas Lewis is a lot of work .

Good corporate image doesn't win you championships. Speed and consistency wins you championships.


Jensen's rep here for not being adaptable is something of which a lot of guys could be accused .
These cars are not easy to drive , and it is very easy to move a design towards one driver's preference , and away from the other's .
Nobody could drive Fernando's Renault like Fernando . Nobody could drive Michael's Ferrari like Michael.

While that is true, a driver of Button's supposed caliber shouldn't be qualifying outside the top 10 while his teammate is on pole. Or like in Canada, where Lewis is steamrolling the opposition and Button is barely making it to the top 15. Once can be considered a fluke, but if it happens multiple times, that's just unacceptable.


It's not all about being adaptable , if it's your car .
I'm not saying it was necessarily intentional that they made a car that suits the Lewis style , but it seems they did .
It certainly stumped Jensen and his engineers .

Stumped so bad that it's taking them forever to iron out the problems? Come on, it's a champion team and a former champion driver. Especially at this level of current close competition in F1, such setup "issues" will be the undoing of any serious championship challenge.


Hey , maybe Lewis is a genius , and could win driving a golf cart .

Certainly made Jenson look like he's driving a golf cart this year. Can't be that bad?


By the way , is Lewis doing any tweeting these days ?

Is there something wrong with your space bar?

[Hawkmoon]

A comparison of Hamilton's finishing position in the WDC to that of his teammate over the duration of his career:

2007
Hamilton - 2nd (109 points)
Alonso - 3rd (109 points)

2008
Hamilton - 1st (98)
Kovalainen - 7th (53)

2009
Hamilton - 5th (49)
Kovalainen - 12th (22)

2010
Hamiton - 4th (240)
Button - 5th (214)

2011
Button - 2nd (270)
Hamilton - 5th (227)

2012
Hamilton - 4th (153)
Button - 6th (131)

The above tells me two things: One, that McLaren haven't contended for a WDC since 2008 (Button's 2nd in 2011 was so far behind Vettel that it didn't matter) and two, that Hamilton has a 4-1-1 win-loss-tie record against his teammates in the WDC over the 6 years of his career. I'm not a Hamilton fan but he's delivered for McLaren in every year but one. He might be a bit difficult at times but he owes McLaren nothing and they will be poorer for his loss.

[F1boat]

Again I say - let's wait and see what happens. First of all, I wouldn't say that "he owes McLaren nothing". They gave him the best car in his rookie year and have given him a winning car in EVERY season so far. In 2007 they also gave him their emotional support against Alonso and in 2008 and 2009 made Kovalainen his de facto second driver. He certainly drove well and although he made many mistakes, he managed to win the WDC for them in 2008 which is of course, a great result. But imagine if he was driving a Force India? He might have not won even a single race.
About the mistakes of McLaren. Yes, the team made had many problems with his car. Fans of Lewis however act like this is personal, while it isn't. McLaren have reliability issues with Mercedes since I remember, honestly. They cost many wins to Mika, David, Kimi and Montoya and yes, Button also had retirements. Italy is a fresh example. However, other teams also had numerous problems. I doubt that Lewis would have done better in Ferrari, which since 2007 regularly produce a slower car than the McLaren and since recently made very questionable strategic decisions - one need only to remember the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. He would have done better in Red Bull, although the team also had terrible reliability issues in 2010 and sometimes this year. However, Red Bull are happy with Seb. Remember - Lewis is not entitled to the best car of the grid. He is unquestionably one of the best, but not all will agree that he is best of the best.
Finally, about his rivalry with Jenson Button. I think that it is laughable for Lewis fans to be angry that McLaren emotionally supports Jenson, when Lewis benefited hugely from such support against Fernando Alonso. For me, honestly, this is sweet karma. Also, while emotional support is important, I am sure that McLaren have Lewis the best tools they have - as they did to Jenson. Now, Button is not to blame if he is better in strategy or preparing his setup... although when Jenson has setup problems, according to Hami fans it is because he is poor and when Lewis has setup problems it is because team sabotages him. Quite unfair, if you ask me.
In the end you can look to results. The truth is that Lewis did better than Jenson in 2010 and 2012, while Jenson was better in 2011. If you sum the points I think that Lewis has a small advantage. However, if the team feels more comfortable with Jenson, Hami fans should not bash them, but ask why is that so and accept that maybe their favorite driver has a hard character and is not easy to work it. Which is a definite weakness in his armor.
Finally, about what will happen next year. I believe that the combo of Jenson and McLaren will be stronger than Lewis and Mercedes, which will mean that Lewis would have lost more than McLaren, at least in short term perspective. However, as Kimi says, we have to wait and see what happens. Talk is cheap.

[The Black Knight]

Again I say - let's wait and see what happens. First of all, I wouldn't say that "he owes McLaren nothing". They gave him the best car in his rookie year and have given him a winning car in EVERY season so far. In 2007 they also gave him their emotional support against Alonso and in 2008 and 2009 made Kovalainen his de facto second driver. He certainly drove well and although he made many mistakes, he managed to win the WDC for them in 2008 which is of course, a great result. But imagine if he was driving a Force India? He might have not won even a single race.
About the mistakes of McLaren. Yes, the team made had many problems with his car. Fans of Lewis however act like this is personal, while it isn't. McLaren have reliability issues with Mercedes since I remember, honestly. They cost many wins to Mika, David, Kimi and Montoya and yes, Button also had retirements. Italy is a fresh example. However, other teams also had numerous problems. I doubt that Lewis would have done better in Ferrari, which since 2007 regularly produce a slower car than the McLaren and since recently made very questionable strategic decisions - one need only to remember the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. He would have done better in Red Bull, although the team also had terrible reliability issues in 2010 and sometimes this year. However, Red Bull are happy with Seb. Remember - Lewis is not entitled to the best car of the grid. He is unquestionably one of the best, but not all will agree that he is best of the best.
Finally, about his rivalry with Jenson Button. I think that it is laughable for Lewis fans to be angry that McLaren emotionally supports Jenson, when Lewis benefited hugely from such support against Fernando Alonso. For me, honestly, this is sweet karma. Also, while emotional support is important, I am sure that McLaren have Lewis the best tools they have - as they did to Jenson. Now, Button is not to blame if he is better in strategy or preparing his setup... although when Jenson has setup problems, according to Hami fans it is because he is poor and when Lewis has setup problems it is because team sabotages him. Quite unfair, if you ask me.
In the end you can look to results. The truth is that Lewis did better than Jenson in 2010 and 2012, while Jenson was better in 2011. If you sum the points I think that Lewis has a small advantage. However, if the team feels more comfortable with Jenson, Hami fans should not bash them, but ask why is that so and accept that maybe their favorite driver has a hard character and is not easy to work it. Which is a definite weakness in his armor.
Finally, about what will happen next year. I believe that the combo of Jenson and McLaren will be stronger than Lewis and Mercedes, which will mean that Lewis would have lost more than McLaren, at least in short term perspective. However, as Kimi says, we have to wait and see what happens. Talk is cheap.

I don't ever remember someone indicating they thought McLaren were sabotaging Hamilton. Mind you, I'd have ignored it anyway if they did and there are quite a few users on here whose posts I don't read anymore as they are idiots so I can't claim to have read them all ;)

Anyway, even when Hamilton was having a bad year by his standard last year he was still a lot closer to Hamilton than Button is to him today. He has destroyed Jenson this year. The points table might show it as a small different but this is due to 4 DNF's all out of Hammy's control and multiple issues in pitstops. To my recollection, Jenson has had two DNF's this year. One where he was likely to finish second, the other in Korea where he wasn't going to win either. I remember McLaren costing him once in the pitstops once in Bharain (correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm willing to bet he has lost approximately 40 points at most to his real potential in total. On the other hand, you have Hamilton who lost 25 in Singapore, probably a second or third place in Germany (we'll say third), probably a 5th in Valencia, possibly a 3rd in Belgium, and he was on for a 3rd at minimum in Bahrain, and also a ****e pitstop in Monaco. That's a big haul of points he has lost through no fault of his own and although I'm too lazy to calculate all those points lost in total, I'm fairly certain it will reach the 80 mark. Not to mention as well the potential points he has lost in Japan and Korea due to rear suspension issue, you can probably add another 15-20 points on for that. So that's 8 races this year where Lewis was cost points through no fault of his own. Again correct me if I'm wrong on this and if Jenson had some bad pitstops or failures that I don't remember. Hamilton really should have the championship all but sewn up by now or at least be a strong contender.

[F1boat]

Anyway, even when Hamilton was having a bad year by his standard last year

So maybe Jenson has a bad year this season? If it happened to Lewis, it can happen to Button as well. :) By the way I am not saying that Jenson is a better driver than Lewis. However, I disagree with the idea that he is not a top driver or that he is that much weaker than Hamilton. I think that if it is really difficult for McLaren to properly set up the car for both Hamilton and Button, it might be easier for them to set up the car for Jenson and Perez, who are both gentle to their tyres. This may allow them to fight for the WDC and WCC. That's why I say - let's wait and see what happens :)
henners, I have to admit that I visit the Planet F1 site as well and some of the comments I read there are simply astonishing. Here I think nobody makes such conspiracy theories, but I feel that many of you think that McLaren are unfair to Lewis and I don't see how they were unfair to him.

[steveaki13]

Hawks Stats show really that Lewis is a class act. Matching Alonso in his rookie year then a title. Then 2 of 3 seasons beating teammates.

However it also shows, that Mclaren despite being one of the best teams and producing reguarly fast cars, they haven't really been able push the development on and really 1 drivers title since 1999 is a shocking return.

In 2003 with Kimi they had a chance, but 2005 they were so fast but had realiability issues , then 2007 they should have wobn it. 2008 they did just, but couldn't win the WCC due to Heikki's lower points haul.

2009 had a brilliant car towards the end, but awful to start with.

2010 were in the hunt but faded as others imporved.

2012 felt like they had a chance, but again have faultered.

In the last 13 seasons 1 WDC only. This must be one of Mclarens driest spells ever.

13 Year period before from 1999 to 1987 yielded alot more.

[CaptainRaiden]

Again I say - let's wait and see what happens. First of all, I wouldn't say that "he owes McLaren nothing". They gave him the best car in his rookie year and have given him a winning car in EVERY season so far.

And he gave them his absolute best, being runner up in his rookie year beating a two time WDC, winning them their only championship in 14 years the next year, dragging a crap car in 2009 to two wins, and been a contender every year except 2011. So, yes, they both owe each other nothing. What is your point?


In 2007 they also gave him their emotional support against Alonso and in 2008 and 2009 made Kovalainen his de facto second driver.

I'm sorry but that's just utter claptrap. What is this based on? It seems like you're not watching a high success = money oriented sport, but some fantasy TV drama. Emotional support?? Kovalainen was nowhere near Lewis in qualifying or in races. Did Mclaren instruct him to regularly qualify 1 second slower than Lewis so that he doesn't come in his way? WTF? Are they not interested in winning the WCC, only the WDC? Do you even have a grasp of how much money a team makes for every point scored?? :confused:

Maybe they coddled Lewis with cakes and candies while Heiki was in a corner crying with his cheap solitary candy. Severe lack of emotional support, yes. Maybe lack of "emotional support" was stipulated in Heiki's contract. :rolleyes:

He wasn't even ahead of Lewis ever OR had to make way like Rubens had to for Michael at Austria 2002. I don't understand what's the basis for this rather stupid "de facto second driver" talk? Heiki was sacked/fired from Mclaren because he severely underperformed and was destroyed by Lewis in every area imaginable.


He certainly drove well and although he made many mistakes, he managed to win the WDC for them in 2008 which is of course, a great result. But imagine if he was driving a Force India? He might have not won even a single race.

And.... the point being? Tell me which of the current top tier drivers can win the championship driving a Force India? Hamilton was coming to F1, whether in a Mclaren or not, because of the way he blitzed the fields in GP2 and other series.


About the mistakes of McLaren. Yes, the team made had many problems with his car. Fans of Lewis however act like this is personal, while it isn't.

Nobody here on this forum has suggested anything even close to that. You should learn to differentiate between what you read on other websites and what Lewis fans say here, otherwise your posts may come off looking rather stupid.


McLaren have reliability issues with Mercedes since I remember, honestly. They cost many wins to Mika, David, Kimi and Montoya and yes, Button also had retirements. Italy is a fresh example. However, other teams also had numerous problems.

Are we stating the obvious here? It's motor racing, equipment failures will always be a part of it. But yes, Mclaren do seem to have the lion's share of mechanical related retirements over the last decade.


I doubt that Lewis would have done better in Ferrari, which since 2007 regularly produce a slower car than the McLaren and since recently made very questionable strategic decisions - one need only to remember the 2010 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. He would have done better in Red Bull, although the team also had terrible reliability issues in 2010 and sometimes this year. However, Red Bull are happy with Seb. Remember - Lewis is not entitled to the best car of the grid. He is unquestionably one of the best, but not all will agree that he is best of the best.

Why is one of the best drivers on the grid not entitled to one of the best cars on the grid? Every good driver is entitled to the best car on the grid. It's the team's job to provide the driver with the absolute best car, as Ron Dennis has often repeated over the years. Red Bull has been doing an awesome job of it by providing Vettel the best car on the grid for the last three years. Adrian Newey is the real genius there.


Finally, about his rivalry with Jenson Button. I think that it is laughable for Lewis fans to be angry that McLaren emotionally supports Jenson, when Lewis benefited hugely from such support against Fernando Alonso. For me, honestly, this is sweet karma.

Yes, and in the next episode of F1 - The Great Conspiracy, Christian Horner is seen having a picnic with Vettel feeding him strawberries and instructing Newey to upgrade Vettel's car with a secret NOS bottle. Mark Webber having seen this, decides to put flatulence pills in Horner's Red Bull. Following these events, Horner ends up passing gas at every TV interview. Everybody laughs and has a merry old time.


Also, while emotional support is important, I am sure that McLaren have Lewis the best tools they have - as they did to Jenson. Now, Button is not to blame if he is better in strategy or preparing his setup.

No, I agree, it is of course not Button's fault he can't drive around setup issues. It is of course Hamilton's fault!


although when Jenson has setup problems, according to Hami fans it is because he is poor and when Lewis has setup problems it is because team sabotages him. Quite unfair, if you ask me.

Again, which Hami fans are you talking about? Don't generalize against Lewis fans because of those idiots at other websites. It seems like you're confused between the two websites. Quite weird, if you ask me.


In the end you can look to results. The truth is that Lewis did better than Jenson in 2010 and 2012, while Jenson was better in 2011. If you sum the points I think that Lewis has a small advantage. However, if the team feels more comfortable with Jenson, Hami fans should not bash them, but ask why is that so and accept that maybe their favorite driver has a hard character and is not easy to work it. Which is a definite weakness in his armor.

It is not a small advantage. Yes, Jenson did better than expected in 2011, but he is still comfortably outclassed this year. Lewis has done significantly better than any teammate in his career, bar 2011, and that's because of his brain farts, not Jenson necessarily outperforming him.

Also, one thing you need to get straight is that Lewis is leaving Mclaren, not Mclaren getting rid of him. Mclaren tried everything they could, with all their might, to retain Lewis Hamilton, even backtracking on their claim of paying Lewis less. They even made him a bigger offer than what Mercedes was willing to pay him. So, no, they are not "more happy" with Jenson. What they have lost is a top tier driver, and are set to have an average year in 2013 unless they come up with a stonking car.


Finally, about what will happen next year. I believe that the combo of Jenson and McLaren will be stronger than Lewis and Mercedes, which will mean that Lewis would have lost more than McLaren, at least in short term perspective. However, as Kimi says, we have to wait and see what happens. Talk is cheap.

Your belief is based on what? Rosberg was doing better than Button up to the British Grand Prix, where Mercedes started to lose the development battle to the front running teams. In fact Rosberg was leading the qualifying battle against Button at 6-3, and matching him in the points table and also in victories at 1 each. Now either Rosberg is making that Mercedes look better than it is or Button is making that Mclaren look really bad.

Nobody can predict what will happen next year, that's true, but don't be so quick to judge that Button is just going to walk over Lewis. A lot of things can change by March next year. Ross Brawn and his team at Brackley have already committed to a complete redesign of this year's car and are already working on it, with Mercedes backing it with their cash. The last time that happened, Brawn GP happened. So, yes, anything can happen. ;)

[F1boat]

OK, Captain, let's have a friendly bet now :) You have your opinion and I have mine. I think that Jenson will outscore Lewis next year :) You agree on a bet? :)

[CaptainRaiden]

OK, Captain, let's have a friendly bet now :) You have your opinion and I have mine. I think that Jenson will outscore Lewis next year :) You agree on a bet? :)

You've got a bet. ;) If Lewis outscores Jenson next year, you will have to carry what I say in your signature for a whole month, and of course vice versa. Bookmark this page. :p

[F1boat]

You've got a bet. ;) If Lewis outscores Jenson next year, you will have to carry what I say in your signature for a whole month, and of course vice versa. Bookmark this page. :p
Fine, but please no hate in what you say and what I say, of course :)

[Garry Walker]

And what? Suddenly after Lewis has gone, Jenson will win the championship with Mclaren?

Jenson is not winning a championship again unless Mclaren come up with a Brawn GP from 2009 i.e. at least seven tenths to a second faster than the closest competitor AND Ferrari, Red Bull, Lotus & Mercedes all screw up their respective car designs for 2013. Highly unlikely.
.

FFS.
Brawn was the best car in maybe the 6-7 first races of 2009, after that Red Bull was better. Only because Button drove much better and more consistently than Bieber was he able to take the title. Alonso or Hamilton in that Red Bull would have easily taken the title. Nor was Brawn ever in racepace 6-7 tenths per lap quicker than any other car that year.

[CaptainRaiden]

FFS.
Brawn was the best car in maybe the 6-7 first races of 2009, after that Red Bull was better. Only because Button drove much better and more consistently than Bieber was he able to take the title. Alonso or Hamilton in that Red Bull would have easily taken the title. Nor was Brawn ever in racepace 6-7 tenths per lap quicker than any other car that year.

Boy, then Barrichello must be a freaking genius to take two victories in the latter part of that season with the struggling Brawn. Button drove well, but only when his car had a much bigger advantage pace wise. Also, Brawn had pretty much the best race pace of any car during 2009, even with heavy fuel load, and it was the kindest on its tyres (which meant they struggled in colder temperatures too, but still they were consistently fast throughout) hence why they were able to beat Lewis in two races by simply one-stopping. Alonso or Hamilton would have wrapped up the championship in that car way sooner and by quite a margin. Button barely squeaked the championship against Vettel says a lot about his ever consistent pace. If he was so good, he wouldn't be getting steamrolled by Lewis in qualifying this year.