Donkey of the Race. Monza 2012

[steveaki13]

Paul di Resta - A poor move on Senna at the 2nd chicane, and despite retirements he only finished 8th after showing great pace yesterday.

Kobayashi - Way off his teammate even with better strategy, the Sauber was faster than that.

Riccardo - Was clear of the Williams into the last half a lap and on for points. Then lost 2 places in 2 corners????

Webber- He lost 3 places to 14th on lap 1, was way slower than Seb and even when Vettel had an issue was still behind him until Seb retired, then spun and retired due to damaged tyres. A really pants weekend.

[driveace]

Vettel For realy being a stupid idiot trying to squeeze Alonso onto the grass ,resulting in a drive through penalty

[DexDexter]

Vettel For realy being a stupid idiot trying to squeeze Alonso onto the grass ,resulting in a drive through penalty

He just returned the compliment from last year, remember that?

[steveaki13]

I dont think there was any intention of revenge in Vettels move.

I just think Sebastian was frustrated at the lack of pace he could find in his Red Bull and almost didn't realise how far Alonso was along side and moved to far.

That said it was still dangerous and I winced as it happen as I was sure Alonso would lose it into the gravel.

[Garry Walker]

Bieber for trying to ram off Alonso. The penalty was clearly deserved.

[DexDexter]

Both moves were dangerous but I'd be concerned if drivers were issuing payback moves on track.

I don't think it was necessarily intentional (in both cases), I just wanted to remind everybody that the same thing happened last year. It's just that in that particular point of track it's quite possible that the guy in front is just not aware where the guy behind is.

[tfp]

Well I diddnt see the race so I cant really say :( :mad:

I did catch some of the highlights and what Jaime on BBC radio 5 (or what ever channel it was) said was right, Vettel was clearly in the wrong. A very silly move. a possible donkey of the race but I cant say for not seeing the whole race.

Drivers? Id say Hamilton for dominating the race. I'd also have to say Massa, he did really well and sacrificed the podium to help out his team mate. He acted as the perfect number 2 driver there, if every race performance was as good as this from him then Ferrari should have no problems keeping him in the team!

[wedge]

It seems Curve Grande gets special treatment.

Any other race track its OK to take your racing line and force the other guy off the track eg. Hamilton forcing off Maldonado in Valencia.

[kfzmeister]

It's just that in that particular point of track it's quite possible that the guy in front is just not aware where the guy behind is.

Hmmm, yeah...uh, NO way! Especially if a guy like Alonso is breathing down your neck.

[kfzmeister]

Vettel For realy being a stupid idiot trying to squeeze Alonso onto the grass ,resulting in a drive through penalty

For a minute, i thought you were gonna call him a gherkin! :D

[Hawkmoon]

I'm going to give this one to Webber and the stewards. Webber had a horrible weekend from start to finish.

I don't think Vettel deserved the penalty. Alonso was so much faster than he was coming out of the previous turn that I think it caught Vettel by surprise. Personally I think the stewards are too heavy handed with the penalties and the new 'driving standards' rules are pointless. Brundle commented that the Pirrelli tyres and DRS had opened the drivers minds to ovetaking opportunities and he may be right, but how much of this new found bravery is due to the fact that drivers know that their opponent is almost hamstrung in his defence by the threat of a penalty?

[The Black Knight]

Di Resta for a stupid move on Senna.

The stewards for giving Vettel a ridiculous penalty.

[TheFamousEccles]

aki - poor Ricciardo had fuel surge issues in the POS that substitutes for an F1 car at STR. And Webber was defending his position on rears that were totally munted, and suffered the consequences of over-driving to compensate - RBR brought him in when it became obvious that, in the immortal words of Scotty in Engineering "She'll no tek it, Cap'n. She'll vibrate herself to pieces".

Bieber gets my vote, with special mention to Scuderia Ferrari for another "Fernando is faster than you" moment, on poor ol' Massa.

[Warriwa]

Dex, I dont think the same thing happened last year at all. Alonso squeezed and left enough racing room for Vettel to complete the pass. This year, Vettel left no room at all and forced him completely off the track at incredible speed. You can not race wheel to wheel with Vettel and expect to get any respect or trust from him. The penalty was deserved.

[The Black Knight]

I'm going to give this one to Webber and the stewards. Webber had a horrible weekend from start to finish.

I don't think Vettel deserved the penalty. Alonso was so much faster than he was coming out of the previous turn that I think it caught Vettel by surprise. Personally I think the stewards are too heavy handed with the penalties and the new 'driving standards' rules are pointless. Brundle commented that the Pirrelli tyres and DRS had opened the drivers minds to ovetaking opportunities and he may be right, but how much of this new found bravery is due to the fact that drivers know that their opponent is almost hamstrung in his defence by the threat of a penalty?

Yep, I agree with this completely. Absolutely absurd decision by the stewards to penalize Vettel for what happened with Alonso. Are drivers not allowed to defend their position anymore? When you compare what Vettel did yesterday to what Schumacher did to Hamilton throughout the race last year you just see a rake of inconsistency. It's the pinnacle of motorsport. With these ridiculous decisions it's becoming a "Oh, after you sir" formula. This continual meddling and stupid penalties the stewards are handing out is really leaving a sour taste in my mouth towards formula one at times.

[DexDexter]

Dex, I dont think the same thing happened last year at all. Alonso squeezed and left enough racing room for Vettel to complete the pass. This year, Vettel left no room at all and forced him completely off the track at incredible speed. You can not race wheel to wheel with Vettel and expect to get any respect or trust from him. The penalty was deserved.

I think Vettel just didn't realise how slow he was compared to Alonso on the straight and suddenly Alonso was there on the outside. Mind you that Red Bulls (and Lotus) have a lot less power than Ferraris.

[Warriwa]

Yeah, I guess the only one who knows is Vettel. I'll ring him, I have him on speed dial.
.... ring ring .... ring ring .... click
me : Hey Seb, Jimmy here
seb : Hey Jimmy, you are a legend, you said you would call me more!
me : Shut up bitch, did you know Alonso was next to you?
seb : Yeah, like, I totally hate that guy, I tried to put him in the wall. Everyone says he's better than me,
but he's not not not! I'm the best best best! Helmut told me so.
me : You're a ****er.
seb : Please don't tell Mark my car is better than his ... tee hee
me : .. click.

That settles it then, Vettel is a prick.

[kfzmeister]

special mention to Scuderia Ferrari for another "Fernando is faster than you" moment, on poor ol' Massa.
:rolleyes:

[F1boat]

The stewards for giving Vettel a ridiculous penalty.

This.

[steveaki13]

aki - poor Ricciardo had fuel surge issues in the POS that substitutes for an F1 car at STR. And Webber was defending his position on rears that were totally munted, and suffered the consequences of over-driving to compensate - RBR brought him in when it became obvious that, in the immortal words of Scotty in Engineering "She'll no tek it, Cap'n. She'll vibrate herself to pieces".

Bieber gets my vote, with special mention to Scuderia Ferrari for another "Fernando is faster than you" moment, on poor ol' Massa.

Thanks for the info.

I withdraw my nomination of Ricciardo as a donkey of the day then. :)

[Zico]

I'm going to give this one to Webber and the stewards. Webber had a horrible weekend from start to finish.

I don't think Vettel deserved the penalty. Alonso was so much faster than he was coming out of the previous turn that I think it caught Vettel by surprise. Personally I think the stewards are too heavy handed with the penalties and the new 'driving standards' rules are pointless. Brundle commented that the Pirrelli tyres and DRS had opened the drivers minds to ovetaking opportunities and he may be right, but how much of this new found bravery is due to the fact that drivers know that their opponent is almost hamstrung in his defence by the threat of a penalty?

I agree 100%.

I was a bit shocked that Vettel got a penalty for that incident. For Alonso to try and go round the outside there was a bit crazy for me. The new rule that you must give other drivers room is one thing but surely that should only apply if they can get fully alongside you before the start of the corner? You cant use the racing line to help defend on a corner? Now it seems that if you have as much as a nose alongside the other driver must give the space and possibly even have to slow on a corner due to being unable to take the racing line.

Defensive driving options are almost non existant outside the one move rule, is easy overtaking with the aid of DRS is not enough?

[Knock-on]

I am a little confused by this one really. As I see it Seb took his normal exit but realising Fred was there, didn't run right out. He wasn't near the white line was he which is the exit for that corner? I may be wrong as I only saw it once on Speed but if Fred wants to overtake, he needs to go around him, not through him and expect Seb to jump out the way as if he was a back marker.

Like I said, this was my first impression but I think a penalty was harsh and I'm one of the loudest voices against people pushing others off the track.

Perhaps Monza played a role?

[The Black Knight]

I am a little confused by this one really. As I see it Seb took his normal exit but realising Fred was there, didn't run right out. He wasn't near the white line was he which is the exit for that corner? I may be wrong as I only saw it once on Speed but if Fred wants to overtake, he needs to go around him, not through him and expect Seb to jump out the way as if he was a back marker.

Like I said, this was my first impression but I think a penalty was harsh and I'm one of the loudest voices against people pushing others off the track.

Perhaps Monza played a role?

Yep, this is the way I see it. It was Alonso's fault. Seb just took the normal racing line. If Alonso wants to pass someone taking the normal racing line then he has to go around him, not through him. I'm normally one of the people on here voicing my opinion that Seb can't ever admit when he is at fault, as with Malaysia this year and Webber in Turkey 2010, but in this instance he did absolutely nothing wrong and this must go down as the most ridiculous penalty I have ever seen handed out.

[Knock-on]

No, Lewis v Kimi in Spa was the most stupid!! This one is just bad!!

Has anyone got a link they can post to the incident?

[ShiftingGears]

It seems Curve Grande gets special treatment.

Any other race track its OK to take your racing line and force the other guy off the track eg. Hamilton forcing off Maldonado in Valencia.

I think Curva Grande is a special case because it's technically a corner even though it functions more like a curved straight.

People would find Vettel's move unacceptable on a straight because drivers are only concerned with the trajectory of their competitor and therefore expected to be aware of the trailing car and not force them off the road.

But if it were a corner where the racing line was totally critical, then the onus would clearly be on the passing driver to find a gap that wasn't going to immediately close as a result of the preceding driver focusing on taking the fastest line (this is especially true for passing around the outside).

So I can see why it's not your average corner in terms of stewards dishing out penalties. In retrospect I think it was the wrong decision, but if it's any consolation at least the decision didn't change the final result.

[The Black Knight]

No, Lewis v Kimi in Spa was the most stupid!! This one is just bad!!

Has anyone got a link they can post to the incident?

I actually think this is worse. The only thing that makes Lewis Vs Kimi equally as bad was that it cost Lewis the win which was even more absurd.

*EDIT* Correction Lewis and Kimi was worse because in that instance Charlie Whiting actually informed McLaren that he thought what Lewis did was legal and thereafter they still issued McLaren a penalty.

[ShiftingGears]

As for the donkey I have to say Webber had an awful weekend, very disappointing showing from a championship competitor.