The horrible TV deal will be the death of Indycar !!!

[SoCalPVguy]

So I am happily watching today's race on ACB Hi def. channel 1007 and they notify us that the race will be switched to ESPN3 or ESPNWS. Almost 2000 channels of my digital cable box and of course we do not get ESPN3 !!!

ESPNWS is channel 245 and it is not high def- the picture is blurry, I cannot even read the car numbers !!!!

How many of you out there even get ESPN3 or ESPNWS ???

That sucking sound you hear is viewers turning off their sets in frustration as they cannot even get the race; and sponsors like IZOD running for the hills !!!! This race will be lucky to get a 0.0001 rating !

Again (and I will probably get censored for this) Screw you Tony George and thanks again for ruining Indy Car !

[anthonyvop]

So I am happily watching today's race on ACB Hi def. channel 1007 and they notify us that the race will be switched to ESPN3 or ESPNWS. Almost 2000 channels of my digital cable box and of course we do not get ESPN3 !!!

ESPNWS is channel 245 and it is not high def- the picture is blurry, I cannot even read the car numbers !!!!

How many of you out there even get ESPN3 or ESPNWS ???

That sucking sound you hear is viewers turning off their sets in frustration as they cannot even get the race; and sponsors like IZOD running for the hills !!!! This race will be lucky to get a 0.0001 rating !

Again (and I will probably get censored for this) Screw you Tony George and thanks again for ruining Indy Car !

I have ESPN News in HD but just DVRd the race in parts because it was up against Le Mans. Priorities!

[00steven]

Yeah TG did a great job with the tv deal before they booted his ***.

[call_me_andrew]

ESPN3 is not a channel, it is a website.

And for me, ESPNews is channel 102, right between Weatherscan Local and Bloomberg Television.

[heliocastroneves#3]

Are you guys able to get Sky Sports? I can't, so I watch the races via Sky Sports livestreams but they broadcast every IndyCar race and will not switch channels, doesn't matter whether a rain delay takes 1 hour or 3 hours!

[anthonyvop]

I have never heard of a contract that cannot be re-negotiated and one would think that both ABC and NBC would be open to discussion that would improve the product which in turn would improve their revenue stream.
There is no benefit in holding IndyCar hostage. OK maybe ABC does but not NBC/Comcast

[Wilf]

So I am happily watching today's race on ACB Hi def. channel 1007 and they notify us that the race will be switched to ESPN3 or ESPNWS. Almost 2000 channels of my digital cable box and of course we do not get ESPN3 !!!

ESPNWS is channel 245 and it is not high def- the picture is blurry, I cannot even read the car numbers !!!!

How many of you out there even get ESPN3 or ESPNWS ???

That sucking sound you hear is viewers turning off their sets in frustration as they cannot even get the race; and sponsors like IZOD running for the hills !!!! This race will be lucky to get a 0.0001 rating !

Again (and I will probably get censored for this) Screw you Tony George and thanks again for ruining Indy Car !

Sooner or later you will learn to censor yourself; it will decrease your embarrassment.

[Jag_Warrior]

I have never heard of a contract that cannot be re-negotiated and one would think that both ABC and NBC would be open to discussion that would improve the product which in turn would improve their revenue stream.
There is no benefit in holding IndyCar hostage. OK maybe ABC does but not NBC/Comcast

When Tony George was engaged in negotiations to get the IRL a new TV package, if it wasn't clear before, it became very clear at that point that ABC was only taking a handful of other IRL races in order to keep Indy in the fold. For the first time, it became public that the IRL was indeed a money losing TV presentation for ABC/ESPN. Now, I agree with you that improving the TV product would likely do a lot to increase viewership. After watching F1 on Speed and Fox and Le Mans on Speed, after seeing how enjoyable it is to watch and listen to announcers who are fully engaged, knowledgeable and entertaining, I've often wondered why ABC/ESPN (especially) and NBC/Versus can't do better. But I'm not certain what contract terms they'd be seeking to re-negotiate, or what specific things the series would want the networks to do. Maybe there was a time when the Indy Car Series could have gotten a better TV deal. But now that the average race gets lower ratings than a bad reality TV show, they wouldn't be negotiating from a position of strength.

I do think that you're right though: with higher ratings, the ad rates could/should be higher. But I don't think there is ANY indication that the series' network partners have the desire to invest any more money than they already are. One would think that they could do a better job of using modern technology, camera work and graphics, but that costs money. But getting more out of what they have shouldn't cost money. I like Jan Beekhuis. I had the pleasure of meeting him many years ago. As I understand his role, he is the DAG (data acquisition geek), sort of like Speed's Steve Matchett. But unlike Matchett, Jan has this annoying habit of keeping info and data to himself, while offering teases that he knows but won't tell. He does this with splits/sector times much of the time. And when a team told a driver (Graham Rahal, I believe) that he was the fastest driver on the track, Jan giggled and said, "I've got news... he is not the fastest driver on the track." And that's all he said. Jan... buddy... pal... if that driver wasn't the fastest driver on the track, don't you think it would have been nice if you'd told us who was???!!! :rolleyes: I'm not a techincal expert like Hoop98 and some others here. But I do enjoy getting relevant data while I'm watching a race. Especially if a driver is stalking (and catching!) another driver, you can use that data to build anticipation and excitement. But unlike F1, GP2 and even Grand Am, they tend NOT to do that on the ICS broadcasts. To me, those are just fundamental broadcasting failures that don't need a full-blown contract review or re-negotiation to fix. But yeah, they do need to be fixed. The most enjoyable race presentation I saw this year was the one where Tommy Kendall sat in the booth. He filled the Davey Hobbs (slap-stick ex-driver) role quite nicely. And though I don't care for him, I guess Jenkins does an acceptable job as the "adult in the room"... the same role that Varsha fills on Speed. But Jan, as much as I like him as a person, now seems to be the weak kitten in the litter. It shouldn't be the case that the drama of F1 qualifying gives me more excitement than an actual ICS race... but sadly, it usually does. And the presentation is the main reason.

[SoCalPVguy]

Sooner or later you will learn to censor yourself; it will decrease your embarrassment.

Un-called for and off-topic. Way to be classy, wilf.

[Wilf]

Who has been the been the broadcast partner of IndyCar since the 60's???? Facts matter. If I incorrectly blamed someone for a TV contract, I would be embarrassed.

[Marbles]

We get Indycar on TSN in Canada despite who's broadcasting it. The NBC coverage is far better than ABC's so I'm always chopfallen to find out I'll be hearing Goodyear make NASCAR like references such as "road course specialist" (here's a tip Scott -- there's only one savant in this series and his speciality ain't road courses)! I was hoping NBC would get the whole enchilada at the last contract but it was not to be. I think the series would be better served by NBC. NBC seems to devote a lot more resources to their Indycar broadcast.

[SoCalPVguy]

Who has been the been the broadcast partner of IndyCar since the 60's???? Facts matter. If I incorrectly blamed someone for a TV contract, I would be embarrassed.

Pls. read Jag above ...

When Tony George was engaged in negotiations to get the IRL a new TV package, if it wasn't clear before, it became very clear at that point that ABC was only taking a handful of other IRL races in order to keep Indy in the fold. For the first time, it became public that the IRL was indeed a money losing TV presentation for ABC/ESPN.

Tony George negotiated the partial ABC contract and with the lamentable, no where to be found, Versus for the remainder of the races.

The reason the IRL had low ratings and no interest beyond the 500, which has also lost interest, was "the split" and that debacle is 100% on TG.

Sodomy ? how do you get sodomy out of any of my posts, you must have boo-foo'ing on the brain.

I must ask the moderators to monitor your insulting posts in the future.

Happy fathers day to you.

[Marbles]

When Tony George was engaged in negotiations to get the IRL a new TV package, if it wasn't clear before, it became very clear at that point that ABC was only taking a handful of other IRL races in order to keep Indy in the fold. For the first time, it became public that the IRL was indeed a money losing TV presentation for ABC/ESPN.

Tony George negotiated the partial ABC contract and with the lamentable, no where to be found, Versus for the remainder of the races.



If I'm not mistaken, the ABC contract was renewed late last year, after the original Versus -NBC- deal (2011 was the remaining year of the existing ABC contract). This would have given Indycar the perfect opportunity to give ABC the boot. I don't know if NBC (they owned Versus at this point) was unwilling to pony up enough money for Indy or Indycar just decided to stay with the only broadcaster the Indy 500 has ever known for reasons other than loyalty... hopefully.

Of course, if my time line is wrong then this post, as well as my previous post in this thread, should be ignored.

[nigelred5]

If I'm not mistaken, the ABC contract was renewed late last year, after the original Versus -NBC- deal (2011 was the remaining year of the existing ABC contract). This would have given Indycar the perfect opportunity to give ABC the boot. I don't know if NBC (they owned Versus at this point) was unwilling to pony up enough money for Indy or Indycar just decided to stay with the only broadcaster the Indy 500 has ever known for reasons other than loyalty... hopefully.

Of course, if my time line is wrong then this post, as well as my previous post in this thread, should be ignored.


The Versus contract was signed before the Comcast takeover of NBC was announced. NBC didn't take over comcastbut Comcast put NBC sports management in charge of Versus.

[Marbles]

The Versus contract was signed before the Comcast takeover of NBC was announced. NBC didn't take over comcastbut Comcast put NBC sports management in charge of Versus.

Okay... I think I knew that... but I believe ABC renewed with Indycar after all of that.

[Wilf]

When Tony George was engaged in negotiations to get the IRL a new TV package, if it wasn't clear before, it became very clear at that point that ABC was only taking a handful of other IRL races in order to keep Indy in the fold. For the first time, it became public that the IRL was indeed a money losing TV presentation for ABC/ESPN.

Tony George negotiated the partial ABC contract and with the lamentable, no where to be found, Versus for the remainder of the races.

The reason the IRL had low ratings and no interest beyond the 500, which has also lost interest, was "the split" and that debacle is 100% on TG.

The way ABC treated IndyCar is why Versus got the contract for all races other than Indy and five others. Versus came into play because no other networks were willing to pay IndyCar for the broadcasts.

Posters have been screaming for two years about the miserable ratings on Versus, now NBC Sports Network, and you think IndyCar can improve their situation by negotiating with WHO?

Rant all you want, but without the Versus deal, there would not have been IndyCar on TV except for Indy and five other races. The sisters would not allow IndyCar to spend any money for time buys. A six race season probably would have spelled doom for the series.

The Olympics are coming up on NBC and NBC Sports Network; more people will know about the network after the Olympics so there should be an improvement. Imagine an IndyCar spot in the Olympic coverage.

[DBell]

The way ABC treated IndyCar is why Versus got the contract for all races other than Indy and five others. Versus came into play because no other networks were willing to pay IndyCar for the broadcasts.

Posters have been screaming for two years about the miserable ratings on Versus, now NBC Sports Network, and you think IndyCar can improve their situation by negotiating with WHO?

Rant all you want, but without the Versus deal, there would not have been IndyCar on TV except for Indy and five other races. The sisters would not allow IndyCar to spend any money for time buys. A six race season probably would have spelled doom for the series.

The Olympics are coming up on NBC and NBC Sports Network; more people will know about the network after the Olympics so there should be an improvement. Imagine an IndyCar spot in the Olympic coverage.

I think I will have to imagine an IndyCar spot during the Olympics because I doubt there will be a real one.

[seppefan]

The way ABC treated IndyCar is why Versus got the contract for all races other than Indy and five others. Versus came into play because no other networks were willing to pay IndyCar for the broadcasts.

Posters have been screaming for two years about the miserable ratings on Versus, now NBC Sports Network, and you think IndyCar can improve their situation by negotiating with WHO?

Rant all you want, but without the Versus deal, there would not have been IndyCar on TV except for Indy and five other races. The sisters would not allow IndyCar to spend any money for time buys. A six race season probably would have spelled doom for the series.

The Olympics are coming up on NBC and NBC Sports Network; more people will know about the network after the Olympics so there should be an improvement. Imagine an IndyCar spot in the Olympic coverage.


Well done VERSUS, silver lining and all that....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well as someone North of the Border, we get it all on TSN or TSN2...mainly the 2...and usually messed with or delayed....so it isn't just Americans who hate the coverage.

ABC can go away. They were awful when Paul Page was talking about how great the IRL was when you had 2 year old chassis running around the Mickyard and 20 nobodies like Dr. Jack Miller the Racing Dentist out there. They haven't gotten better since.

This TV contract is indeed a legacy of TG and we are sort of stuck with it right now, but I think if NBC was approached and ABC was told to kiss off....something might work to make a better TV product, but I am not sure it would make more money. The series has to decide maybe to sacrifice to get a better TV product and package out there and while NBC Sports is not network TV, F1 and almost every other form of racing has extensive coverage on Speed. Maybe talk to them and try to put together a package over time that will maximize the series time on TV on QUALITY broadcasts. Quality means having announcers that don't dumb things down, and producers who get what fans want. NBC is doing the best they can with the old VS crew, but I think RB's legacy has to get the TV package straightened out so the product is presented properly. If It means hiring a hit man to take out Scott Goodyear and the rest of the ABC/ESPN crew, I am all for it!

[anthonyvop]

One of the biggest issues hurting Indycar with the TV contract is the lame internet presence. No live streaming of practice or quals let alone the race itself. This is one of the biggest reason that the ICS is dropping down to 4th place in the USA in total average viewership.

[nigelred5]

The lack of any video coverage of practice and qualifying has been a major letdown to me. I know youtube is a cheapalternative, but it's after the fact and its still only the race. IIRC there were a boatload of restrictions the FCC put on Comcast and NBC regarding various content delivery to ensure there was no restriction to their content availability. I don't know if any of that is coming into play here, or if it's simply Indycar's inability/unwillingness to pay for the production, however it would seem like streaming content would benefit both NBCsports AND ABC/ESPN. They still run commercials and on-screen advertisements, so it shouldn't be taking away from anything.

[call_me_andrew]

They still run commercials and on-screen advertisements, so it shouldn't be taking away from anything.

You mean other than the commercials inserted by affiliate stations and cable/satellite providers?

[nigelred5]

You mean other than the commercials inserted by affiliate stations and cable/satellite providers?

yeah all the commercials no one is seeing when qualifying and sometimes the race isn't broadcast! ;)

[bugeyedgomer]

The lack of any video coverage of practice and qualifying has been a major letdown to me. I know youtube is a cheapalternative, but it's after the fact and its still only the race. IIRC there were a boatload of restrictions the FCC put on Comcast and NBC regarding various content delivery to ensure there was no restriction to their content availability. I don't know if any of that is coming into play here, or if it's simply Indycar's inability/unwillingness to pay for the production, however it would seem like streaming content would benefit both NBCsports AND ABC/ESPN. They still run commercials and on-screen advertisements, so it shouldn't be taking away from anything.

It was Versus who put an end to all streaming because they felt it was taking away from the TV viewership

Iowa IndyCar race TV ratings drop 40%

By Kyle Ocker - Sports editor Daily Iowegian

CENTERVILLE — The NBC Sports Network and the IndyCar Series’ TV ratings continued to struggle this past weekend, as the IZOD IndyCar Series visited the Iowa Speedway.

This year’s race drew a .18 US rating from Nielsen, a little over 40 percent drop from the 2011 Iowa IndyCar race.

[Jag_Warrior]

It was Versus who put an end to all streaming because they felt it was taking away from the TV viewership

Iowa IndyCar race TV ratings drop 40%

By Kyle Ocker - Sports editor Daily Iowegian

CENTERVILLE — The NBC Sports Network and the IndyCar Series’ TV ratings continued to struggle this past weekend, as the IZOD IndyCar Series visited the Iowa Speedway.

This year’s race drew a .18 US rating from Nielsen, a little over 40 percent drop from the 2011 Iowa IndyCar race.

I well remember the days when IRL and CART fans did battle with each other about ratings. And I'm not trying to reopen that can of worms in what I'm about to say - so please understand that. But in our ratings debates, CART once had a qualifying session on ESPN 2 from Japan - sometime between the witching hour U.S. time and twelve minutes past sign-off. The ratings were somewhere in the .40 range. My IRL buddies thought those ratings were hilarious. Now we have actual races, in prime time, that can't even get a .20. My only reason for posting this is to say, let the past be the past, but let's all just fess up and accept that this is now nothing more than a niche sport. There is not a chance in hell that it's going to suddenly snap back and become much more than a shadow of what it was even 10-12 years ago. But more so than us fans, the powers-that-be REALLY need to face this reality. In my (worthless) opinion, they should begin streaming at least the qualifying and practices LIVE over the internet. And the sad fact that they remain too antiquated to get a working iOS or Android app together just speaks volumes as to their old way of thinking and incompetence. It'll cost money, but they should have called SoftPauer yesterday to begin putting a basic app together.

Last weekend, I watched the IndyCar race live and after it was over, I watched an old DVR recording of the GP2 race from a previous weekend. The GP2 race was not just "better" and more action packed, but (the part that the series and its partners can control), the TV presentation was MUCH more professionally done. The announcers displayed a level of excitement and knowledge all through the broadcast that was not present in the IndyCar presentation. But at least they have Tommy Kendall in the booth (for now?). I don't know what to make of Jan these days. As much as I like him as a person, he seems to be becoming increasingly clueless with each broadcast. Like the fuel thing near the end of the race. Why insist that you KNOW that certain cars can make it on full rich, and then a few laps later, it becomes general knowledge that they cannot?! Jan! Buddy! I love ya to death, but if you don't truly know, there's absolutely no sin in just keeping your mouth shut. Really! :rolleyes: They all need to pay some money and beg the guys at Speed to teach them how to effectively broadcast a race. Seriously. No argument from me: ABC/ESPN truly sucks. But NBC/Versus ain't that much better.