The 80th Le Mans 24 Hours 2012

[AndyRAC]

3rd round of the FiA World Endurance Championship.

Audi Ultra v Audi e-tron Quattro v Toyota Petrol Hybrid....

Should be good, likely to be Audi's to lose, but Toyota are a welcome addition to the LMP1 class.

LMP2 looks to be fantastic, with 10-15 cars challenging for the class win. And don't forget the GT class; Porsche v Ferrari v AstonMartin v Corvette....

radiolemans.com (http://www.radiolemans.com/)

[00steven]

In my opinion the second greatest race of them all! Should be a good one...

[wedge]

Lotterer could have gone even quicker!

Amazingly close in GTs

[F1boat]

Audi should win this, but I am very interested in the GT class.

[wedge]

Considering the time scale of the program and upheavals its phenomenal effort all round by Toyota.

Amazing lap by Ant to be nearly a second off pole and not to mention being an NA/hybrid.

Good luck for Sunday.

Audi e-trons - phenomenal car! The change of direction from Porsche Curves to the end of the lap but I think it has the edge on Toyota/NA cars when they launch off the chicanes.

[seb_sh]

Toyota saved the LMP1 race after Peugeot withdrew. Indeed a very good effort considering they were supposed to run just one car and take a back seat to the Audi-Pug duel. They have better lap times than I expected but I don't think they can keep up in the race, maybe for the first few laps to get some nice photos :D It's really Audi's race, even if the e-trons develop some electrical problems the ultra's should not worry about lasting the race. I'm not certain the Toyotas will make it to the end or if they do it will be with a looong pit stop or two. I hope that won't be the case and we'll have a 24 hour long battle but I don't think it'll happen.

I hope there will be a good battle between the normal petrol LMP1s. Also LMP2 looks really good, it seems ACO finally got it right after the less than credible years of LMP675 and "old" LMP2.

In GTE theres a very nice selection of cars but my money is on Corvette. Ferrari and the Aston are fast but may be unreliable, plus Ferrari's star crew had problems and Porsche seems to have fallen behind. It will be a nice race in any case.

[BleAivano]

not very good weather.

[BleAivano]

not very good weather.

looked like it was raining when the broadcast started but quite sunny now.

[AndyRAC]

Great GT battle, as was expected, marvellous stuff!!
Both Toyotas just been in pits.......a bit early....

[BleAivano]

Great GT battle, as was expected, marvellous stuff!!
Both Toyotas just been in pits.......a bit early....

yeah but the Audis were also in at the lap after.

[BleAivano]

oh dear J. Melo ran out of fuel at the pit entrance.

[Rollo]

I reckon that the No.7 Toyota must have some sort of loyalty card. It's been through the drive-through of the pits all day. Maybe the drivers have a penchant for chicken burgers or something.

Those Audis though... clockwork so far.

[steveaki13]

Good race so, far just a shame the Toyotas aren't fast enough to worry those Audis

[BleAivano]

Good race so, far just a shame the Toyotas aren't fast enough to worry those Audis

actually they aren't that far behind now. They have been going well and have manage the get closer to the Audis.

[ioan]

Man those idiots in Ferrari are at it again.
They took off 2 Audi's last year and now one of the Toyota's can't these damn MFs look in their effin' mirrors?
Let's hope Davidson is OK.

[tfp]

Toyota leading:-) i want a toyota to win, would be nice to have a petrol engine on top again! Davidson apparently ok...

[BleAivano]

The Toyota basically pushed the DeltaWing of the road.

[truefan72]

stupid nakajima

given a fast car and plenty of laps behind the SC to get warmed up and still manages to drive recklessly, causing body damage, bumping into the delta wing and pretty much undoing all the work wurz and lapier did to get this car into the #1 spot. Davidson is fine. Shocked and suffering some mild back pain and other dings, but overall he's ok.

[truefan72]

Man those idiots in Ferrari are at it again.
They took off 2 Audi's last year and now one of the Toyota's can't these damn MFs look in their effin' mirrors?
Let's hope Davidson is OK.

it was a terrible crash, and yeah that ferrari driver is just plain stupid,
almost unforgivable in my book

[ioan]

Well, that was it. Toyota No 8 crashed, and no 7 has lost about 5 laps already and still in the pits.
This has got Audi 1 2 3 written all over it. Also Live timing is dead so I can go to sleep now.

[ioan]

stupid nakajima

given a fast car and plenty of laps behind the SC to get warmed up and still manages to drive recklessly, causing body damage, bumping into the delta wing and pretty much undoing all the work wurz and lapier did to get this car into the #1 spot. Davidson is fine. Shocked and suffering some mild back pain and other dings, but overall he's ok.

The car was handed over to Nakajima in 2nd place not in 1st.
Can't fault Nakajima for a nudge when they were all over each other after the restart trying to get around the lapped cars, like the Delta Wing for example.
More like why the F did it take the Toyota mechanics 2 minutes to figure out how to remove the rear of the car?!
The good part is that the car is fast in racing trim, but then again their stints are also 1 lap shorter then those of Audi.
There's work left to do for next year.

[AndyRAC]

Well that's it - back to the Audi demonstration run. Not sure that's what the race needed...Again!!
However, there's plenty of promise for Toyota, still only halfway through the WEC season, so hopefully they'll improve.

The other classes are looking good though, so may yet stay up to watch it.

[BleAivano]

C'mon ioan it was more then a nudge.

Naka had cars infront of him and the DW to the right. The DW could not go any further out or it would have gone off.

Naka just throws his car into the corner and then changes his race line to the right where the DW already was.

Naka should have backed off until after the bend. Its a 24 hour race and this was just stupid and reckless.

[truefan72]

Well, that was it. Toyota No 8 crashed, and no 7 has lost about 5 laps already and still in the pits.
This has got Audi 1 2 3 written all over it. Also Live timing is dead so I can go to sleep now.

yup game over

until 2013 then
still don't understand why Peugeot pulled out,
I'm about to shut down the speed tv live stream myself
no point in watching an audi procession for the next 16 hours
:(

[ioan]

C'mon ioan it was more then a nudge.

Naka had cars infront of him and the DW to the right. The DW could not go any further out or it would have gone off.

Naka just throws his car into the corner and then changes his race line to the right where the DW already was.

Naka should have backed off until after the bend. Its a 24 hour race and this was just stupid and reckless.

Sure Nakajima should have done this and that and third and left right and middle.
Nakajima avoided running into the cars ahead of him what about the Delta wing?
It was a racing accident where both might have been able to do better.
Anyway the Toyota doesn't look ready yet.

[ioan]

still don't understand why Peugeot pulled out,

All of a sudden management thought that 10 million Euro for a season of racing is too expensive.
In the end it was just an image exercise.

[ioan]

Toyota no 7 is out again.
It took them 90 minutes to change an alternator!
Oh wait it didn't even get as far as the pit exit this time.

[ioan]

No 7 going back to the garage again! This is getting painful now.

[steveaki13]

Well, that was it. Toyota No 8 crashed, and no 7 has lost about 5 laps already and still in the pits.
This has got Audi 1 2 3 written all over it. Also Live timing is dead so I can go to sleep now.

Someone should bring in a drag reduction system so people can pass these Audi's ;)

[steveaki13]

I have had to be away for about 3 hours. Is there anywhere or anyhow I can get a read through of what has gone on in the last few hours???

[Nem14]

Man those idiots in Ferrari are at it again.
They took off 2 Audi's last year and now one of the Toyota's can't these damn MFs look in their effin' mirrors?
Let's hope Davidson is OK.It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to make a safe pass, not the Ferrari driver's responsibility to live in his mirrors.

If anyone screwed up it was Davidson, but yes, lets hope BOTH drivers are OK.

[steveaki13]

Also whats the best live timing site?

[ioan]

It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to make a safe pass, not the Ferrari driver's responsibility to live in his mirrors.

If anyone screwed up it was Davidson, but yes, lets hope BOTH drivers are OK.

:rolleyes: Biggest load of crap posted in this thread! I bet you didn't even see the accident before you posted. LOL
Davidson was level with the Ferrari on the inside of that turn when the Ferrari turned into the Toyota. Also the Ferrari driver acknowledged that he knew that the Toyota was getting close but somehow he didn't know anymore where it was when they had the accident! his spatial awareness is crap, he shouldn't have been on a race track.

[ioan]

Also whats the best live timing site?

None. They are all taking it from the official site and the one on the official site is playing up all the time.

[big_sw2000]

It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to make a safe pass, not the Ferrari driver's responsibility to live in his mirrors.

If anyone screwed up it was Davidson, but yes, lets hope BOTH drivers are OK.

How can you say such dribble.

Davidson did make a safe pass, there was no need for the Ferrari driver to cut to the inside of the corner and hit him.
Personally i think amature drivers gentleman drivers should not be allowed. Thats 3 big crashes now, although you could argue maybe it was Mcnish's fault last year.
I just hope they get rid of them ugly shark fins on the back of the cars, i personally think it caused Davidson to flip this time.

And as for the Toyota Delta wing bump. Easy it was a racing accident, there was no way the Toyota driver could of seen him out there. Rember they are sat low in the cars, almost level with the top of the wheel arch, no way he could of seen him out there.

Steve

[ShiftingGears]

Great shame about Toyota. The finishing order of the Audi team really generates no interest from me.


It's the overtaking drivers responsibility to make a safe pass, not the Ferrari driver's responsibility to live in his mirrors.

If anyone screwed up it was Davidson, but yes, lets hope BOTH drivers are OK.

With backmarkers like that Ferrari driver, you'd never get a "safe pass" when there's a corner involved.

[ioan]

How can you say such dribble.

Davidson did make a safe pass, there was no need for the Ferrari driver to cut to the inside of the corner and hit him.
Personally i think amature drivers gentleman drivers should not be allowed. Thats 3 big crashes now, although you could argue maybe it was Mcnish's fault last year.
I just hope they get rid of them ugly shark fins on the back of the cars, i personally think it caused Davidson to flip this time.

And as for the Toyota Delta wing bump. Easy it was a racing accident, there was no way the Toyota driver could of seen him out there. Rember they are sat low in the cars, almost level with the top of the wheel arch, no way he could of seen him out there.

Steve

Well said!

[Eddaviesf1]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site. Been watching for le mans for the past few hours, shame for Toyota all the cars are now out of the race. The car has been looking really strong.

[ioan]

Great shame about Toyota. The finishing order of the Audi team really generates no interest from me.

Same here.



With backmarkers like that Ferrari driver, you'd never get a "safe pass" when there's a corner involved.

IMO with such back-markers you'd be lucky to make a pass on a straight as he obviously was out of his depth, his reactions after the accident are proof he knew that he did a huge mistake, yet he lied during the interview.

[ioan]

Well, yes the No 7 is also retired before halfway of the race.
Yet there are a couple of positives for them:
- after 5 hours they were faster then the Audi's
- for a rushed stand in after Peugeot's retirement they did good
- their hybrid technology seems to be better then that of Audi, the differences between the Audi e Tron and the Audi Ultra isn't really that impressive while the Toyota is much faster then the other petrol powered cars.

They'll be back stronger next year.
Audi will probably engineer another win for Kristensen, Capello and McNish, not to mention a probable Audi 1 2 3 4 so I'm off to bed now.

[ioan]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site. Been watching for le mans for the past few hours, shame for Toyota all the cars are now out of the race. The car has been looking really strong.

Welcome to the real racing technology series! :up:

[Eddaviesf1]

Thanks for the welcome, just heard the news on anthony davidson. Broken back is not the way anybody wanted him to finish his race, hope he has a quick recovery. Seems like it was similar to Alan mcnish from last year. These Ferraris are really causing problems for the LMP1 cars

[call_me_andrew]

As much as I love watching the sun rise in Le Mans, someone needs to consider replacing these ARMCO barriers with concrete.

[F1boat]

This race has awesome atmosphere and the cars are gorgeous. Even with Audi dominating it is very interesting and the race coverage is awesome.

[Rollo]

I've done a bunch of stuff for today which is Sunday and I come back to find Audi 1-2-3-4 and with the top two running less than half a minute apart even after 18hrs.

You could call this domination, but it belies the simple fact that these four Audis are incredibly reliable. I'm happy with total domination provided the reliability on the track can translate eventually to better cars for us mere mortals.

[Davsy]

As much as I love watching the sun rise in Le Mans, someone needs to consider replacing these ARMCO barriers with concrete.
Why would you possible consider that to be a safe thing to do.

Armco is designed to absorb impact and therefore not transfer all of the force into the driver. Concrete is so much less forgiving and would likely lead to more fatal accidents.

[Rollo]

This is going to sound a little heartless on my part, but re No.0, if you have such a little car and you were worried about other cars running into it, why would you paint it back to make it harder to see? Nakajima probably looked in his rear view mirror (which is small in the first place) and genuinely didn't notice it.

[ioan]

Audi will probably engineer another win for Kristensen, Capello and McNish, not to mention a probable Audi 1 2 3 4 so I'm off to bed now.

That was easily predictable. :)
4 hours to go.

[Rollo]

As much as I love watching the sun rise in Le Mans, someone needs to consider replacing these ARMCO barriers with concrete.

Davidson's accident proves otherwise:
Davidson breaks back in huge Le Mans crash - Yahoo! Sport UK (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/treluyer-puts-audi-24-hours-174049055.html)

By spreading the impact force over a longer timeframe, the severity of the impulse is reduced. Ideally the barriers would be made of something like ballistics gel or marshmallow which would be more forgiving that concrete.
This is the same principle on which road cars crumple zones and airbags are based.

[big_sw2000]

As much as I love watching the sun rise in Le Mans, someone needs to consider replacing these ARMCO barriers with concrete.

I would fancy Davidson, and the Ferrari driver to come of alot worse if they hit tyre protected concreat head on. Espiacilly in the case of the Ferrari, that anco absorbed the impact well. What it is designed to do.
The only down side, is the repaire time after a big accident.


Im just wondering if Davidson broke his back, (11 and 12 vertibrae), whilest the car landed, and not hit the barrier.

Steve

[BDunnell]

Im just wondering if Davidson broke his back, (11 and 12 vertibrae), whilest the car landed, and not hit the barrier.

I was wondering whether he worsened the injury by getting out of the car and moving around.

[ioan]

Effin stupid director has been showing us replays while Pedro Lamy was overtaking the Porsche for the GTE AM lead.
Can these idiots for once show what's important instead of some random crap?

[ioan]

Re Davidson's accident it looked to me that the fin has worked the other way around this time by lifting the car in the air instead of keeping it on the road.

[ioan]

That's all folks!
Let's hope next year it will be even better with Toyota getting up there with their reliability and repairs procedures.

[SHIOTTA]

What a ****ty boring race after the demise of the Toyotas. Pisses me off that it's another year to wait until the next one. ****kkkkkk

[BDunnell]

Effin stupid director has been showing us replays while Pedro Lamy was overtaking the Porsche for the GTE AM lead.
Can these idiots for once show what's important instead of some random crap?

And can you, perhaps, appreciate how difficult it must be to direct the live TV broadcast of an event such as Le Mans? Of course mistakes are going to be made.

[ioan]

And can you, perhaps, appreciate how difficult it must be to direct the live TV broadcast of an event such as Le Mans? Of course mistakes are going to be made.

Poor little director! :rolleyes:
It's his effin job not to miss the interesting parts of the race.
The Corvette had been less then 1 second behind the Porsche for half a lap (that's 2+ minutes for the GTE AM cars), the Eurosport staff was almost crying in desperation, and the idiot didn't see the battle?! Because he was to much in awe showing us slow motion replays from the pit lane.
Is it too much to expect anyone to do their job nowadays?
Can you imagine the pilot of your plane not paying attention to his job during take off and landing?! Don't think so.
Complacency will not help us get better, remember that.

[driveace]

Site now says that Anthony is now a walking wounded with no significant long time injuries,just a sore back etc .Hope he is well soon as he is a very nice pleasant lad.

[BDunnell]

Poor little director! :rolleyes:
It's his effin job not to miss the interesting parts of the race.
The Corvette had been less then 1 second behind the Porsche for half a lap (that's 2+ minutes for the GTE AM cars), the Eurosport staff was almost crying in desperation, and the idiot didn't see the battle?! Because he was to much in awe showing us slow motion replays from the pit lane.
Is it too much to expect anyone to do their job nowadays?
Can you imagine the pilot of your plane not paying attention to his job during take off and landing?! Don't think so.
Complacency will not help us get better, remember that.

Point taken, but I look forward to how you will react were anyone on here to lecture you about how to do your job.

[AndyRAC]

Ah well over for another year. Roll on Silverstone and the next round.
Audi did as they always do, and got the job done - even though at times they seemed to want to throw it away. We may have seen a changing of the guard. I would think that Lotterer, Treluyer & Fassler will be their new No1 team, Capello seems as if that's it - how ong have TK & McNish got left? Dumas & Bernhard are Porsche factory drivers, and will almost certainly have driven their last race for Audi.
Hopefully Toyota will test, develop and race their car extensively - it showed lots of promise - in it's first ever race - and should be competitive in a normal 6 hour WEC race.
I just hope in the future, that with Audi, Toyota, Porsche, we get more Manufacturers in the LMP1 class - having an Audi 'demonstration run' isn't great for the sport.

[wedge]

They'll be back stronger next year.
Audi will probably engineer another win for Kristensen, Capello and McNish, not to mention a probable Audi 1 2 3 4 so I'm off to bed now.

They are free to race. Even TK said it was time for Audi's next generaton.


This is going to sound a little heartless on my part, but re No.0, if you have such a little car and you were worried about other cars running into it, why would you paint it back to make it harder to see? Nakajima probably looked in his rear view mirror (which is small in the first place) and genuinely didn't notice it.

In endurance racing, its generally the case that the leaders who should pass safely. From what I could tell, Nakajima went for a gap that wasn't there.


Re Davidson's accident it looked to me that the fin has worked the other way around this time by lifting the car in the air instead of keeping it on the road.

It's a work in progress. I don't think there were blow-overs since they were sanctioned. The Toyota got an almighty swipe to send it sideways and it was an acute yaw angle to send it airborne.


And can you, perhaps, appreciate how difficult it must be to direct the live TV broadcast of an event such as Le Mans? Of course mistakes are going to be made.

Er, if you were paying attention - not just TV but on timings - the only significant battle in the final hour was in GTE-am.

Does the TV director deserve any sympathy whatsoever?

[BDunnell]

Er, if you were paying attention - not just TV but on timings - the only significant battle in the final hour was in GTE-am.

Does the TV director deserve any sympathy whatsoever?

I wasn't watching, but was instead making a general point.

[FIAT1]

Congrats to Audi, watched good 6 hrs, after Milwaukee. I love this race!

[call_me_andrew]

Why would you possible consider that to be a safe thing to do.

Armco is designed to absorb impact and therefore not transfer all of the force into the driver. Concrete is so much less forgiving and would likely lead to more fatal accidents.

You can put tires and foam blocks in front of concrete for safety. My concern is that it takes an hour to replace a section of an Armco barrier.

[big_sw2000]

In endurance racing, its generally the case that the leaders who should pass safely. From what I could tell, Nakajima went for a gap that wasn't there.
?

Not so sure, he jinked right to go around the outside of a slower car, there was no way he could of seen the Delta wing, as it was hidden by the slower car and then almost hid behind his wheel arch.
I do think, as the comatators were saying, that we need to wave the leaders, fastest cars to the front, of a safty car chain.


You can put tires and foam blocks in front of concrete for safety. My concern is that it takes an hour to replace a section of an Armco barrier.

Ok yes you could, but i still dont think it would absorb an impact like the Ferrari impact.
Plus it is a plublic road at the end of the day, the armcro they hit was around the edge of a roundeabout. A tempory solution which can be taken down after the race. Im sure the residents of Le Mans dont want a concreat wall around the front edge of there roundeabout.

Steve

[wedge]

Not so sure, he jinked right to go around the outside of a slower car, there was no way he could of seen the Delta wing, as it was hidden by the slower car and then almost hid behind his wheel arch.


All the prototypes went round the outside of the DW at the long, final right hander of the complex. Kaz was last in the train.


I wasn't watching, but was instead making a general point.

If you wasn't watching then why bother making such a point in the first place?

[big_sw2000]

All the prototypes went round the outside of the DW at the long, final right hander of the complex. Kaz was last in the train.




Yes your correct, but the Toyota was on the left hand side of the Audi, meaning the Delta wing would of been unsighted, before he moved out to the right of the Audi hitting the Delta wing.
2012 Le Mans 24 Hours Delta Wing crashes - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZa681uVXU)

Steve

[Mark in Oshawa]

LeMans as a track is perfect...but I too wish they could redo the Armco faster. That said, Andrew, I know from our North American experience we think the temp concrete barriers would work, but this is 8 miles plus of race track...and most of it isn't actually track all year round...so the Armco is probably the way they just have to go.


As for the Delta Wing being an innocent bystander, when Nakajima is out there and having the redmist after an hour behind the safety car, the only safe place to be was behind the Armco. The D wing just was in the wrong place at the wrong time and Nakajima, like his countryman Sato seems to have issues with patience and spatial awareness....

[AndyRAC]

Toyota should employ the best drivers possible. If that mean no Japanese drivers, so be it. Putting one Japanese driver in each car for ‘marketing reasons’ is already giving Audi a head start. How many Germans did Audi have this year? 2, Lotterer and Rockenfeller – plus Bernhard injured. They use the best drivers possible, no marketing reasons, just driving.
Nakajima is fast, but erratic – yes, he’s driven in SuperGT, but that is different to multi-class Sportscar racing.

[ProRally]

This was my first 24h Le Mans, we had lots of problems, but we finished, 26th was not what we hoped for but given the tech issues still happy to make it to the end.

[wedge]

Toyota should employ the best drivers possible. If that mean no Japanese drivers, so be it. Putting one Japanese driver in each car for ‘marketing reasons’ is already giving Audi a head start. How many Germans did Audi have this year? 2, Lotterer and Rockenfeller – plus Bernhard injured. They use the best drivers possible, no marketing reasons, just driving.
Nakajima is fast, but erratic – yes, he’s driven in SuperGT, but that is different to multi-class Sportscar racing.

Give Kaz a break. It's his first time racing LMPs.

SuperGT has two classes: GT500 and GT300 and its not that much difference to P1 and P2.

Allan McNish - damn quick but time and again he compromises himself when in traffic/turns the wick up. This year and last year in LM, countless times when up against the Porsche Spyders in ALMS.

FYI, Toyota did not put "one Japanese driver in each car for ‘marketing reasons’". Kaz was the only Japanese driver for Toyota.

[AndyRAC]

Yes, I know, but they've have done that before, or even ran an all Japanese line up. Sarrazin replaced the other Japanese driver who felt he wasn't up to it. If they're good enough - fine. I do think Kazuki can be a fine driver, as he does have the pace, which is the first requirement when picking a driving line up. He has had a habit of incidents, maybe a season of Sportscar racing will make him more 'rounded'.

[lightspeedracer]

Toyota should employ the best drivers possible. If that mean no Japanese drivers, so be it. Putting one Japanese driver in each car for ‘marketing reasons’ is already giving Audi a head start. How many Germans did Audi have this year? 2, Lotterer and Rockenfeller – plus Bernhard injured. They use the best drivers possible, no marketing reasons, just driving.
Nakajima is fast, but erratic – yes, he’s driven in SuperGT, but that is different to multi-class Sportscar racing.

I've been somewhat impressed by Toyota, their TS030 seems advanced for a first year. Roaring Motor Sound - TOYOTA TS030 HYBRID in Paul Ricard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDJrZNSwNs)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yes, I know, but they've have done that before, or even ran an all Japanese line up. Sarrazin replaced the other Japanese driver who felt he wasn't up to it. If they're good enough - fine. I do think Kazuki can be a fine driver, as he does have the pace, which is the first requirement when picking a driving line up. He has had a habit of incidents, maybe a season of Sportscar racing will make him more 'rounded'.

I think they need to upgrade their drivers, that is for sure. MInd you, they did alright getting some of the Peugeot shoes, but I think Sebastien Bourdais could have been had very easily.