Owners Vote Out Aero Kits For 2013

[DBell]

INDYCAR: Owners Reject Aero Kits Again (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-owners-reject-aero-kits-again/)



Color me shocked.................not. When they announced last year no aero kits for 2012, I doubted we would see them this year. You could see this coming with the recent information on how much more the teams are paying versus how much they were told they would pay for the new car. Hard to be mad at the owners though, their actual cost of the new car is way over budget.

[FIAT1]

INDYCAR: Owners Reject Aero Kits Again (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-owners-reject-aero-kits-again/)



Color me shocked.................not. When they announced last year no aero kits for 2012, I doubted we would see them this year. You could see this coming with the recent information on how much more the teams are paying versus how much they were told they would pay for the new car. Hard to be mad at the owners though, their actual cost of the new car is way over budget.

Ok Owners, much of my interest was new car and new tech and developement. I was looking farward to next year creations, but now I will think twice before buying a ticket for the race, at least we know who is in control.

[00steven]

Tired of spec, nice job owners.

[Anubis]

Ok Owners, much of my interest was new car and new tech and developement. I was looking farward to next year creations, but now I will think twice before buying a ticket for the race, at least we know who is in control.

It's their money on the line at the end of the day, and cash is king, especially in the current climate. I'd like to see more variation and development, but if there's no market at the moment, then there's no market.

[FIAT1]

It's their money on the line at the end of the day, and cash is king, especially in the current climate. I'd like to see more variation and development, but if there's no market at the moment, then there's no market.

Agree, cash is the king and current climate is making me stay home and take care of my money.

[heliocastroneves#3]

I'd agree with the owners. For me, IndyCar racing is about the driver winning with the most racing talent, and not the one with the best car. Everyone the same chassis, that's how it is now and that's how it will be in the future. If you want to watch a sport were everyone has different cars, go watching Formula One.

Also, this new car is already way over the budget of the car owners, and aero kits will make this new car even more over the budget than it currently is... Think twice before being disappointed with the owners' opinion about the aero kits because they have to spend money for the aero kits and not we, the fans...

*Awaiting a bunch of negative comments about what I said above. :D *

[Blancvino]

If you want to watch a sport were everyone has different cars, go watching Formula One.

Good idea, I'll do that!

[FIAT1]

.

Think twice before being disappointed with the owners' opinion about the aero kits because they have to spend money for the aero kits and not we, the fans...

Yeap, that is why my money and I will stay home and watch Indylights on you tube. F1 is a great idea thanks!

[Nikki Katz]

I can understand the teams' position here - there doesn't seem to be a lot of money floating around at the moment, and given that the base chassis is way over budget I can see them not wanting to spend more. Also, I don't really want other teams to end up like HVM have because of their engine. And I'm not sure that the Honda-Chevy power struggle is really doing the sport any favours. Maybe if things are looking better in a year or two then rethink this, but for now I'd rather it if cars didn't drop off the grid.

[anthonyvop]

When the owners signed on to the new car they new the Aero kits were part of the deal. But they were also promised a low price for the chassis as well. As much as I want the aero kits I also understand why the owners would want to cut cost now. I am sure there are more than one or 2 teams that couldn't swallow the extra expense

[anthonyvop]

I'd agree with the owners. For me, IndyCar racing is about the driver winning with the most racing talent, and not the one with the best car.

And when was the last time a non-Penske or non Ganassi driver had any significant impact on the series?

[call_me_andrew]

It's their money on the line at the end of the day, and cash is king, especially in the current climate. I'd like to see more variation and development, but if there's no market at the moment, then there's no market.

You have to spend money to make money.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think they are making a mistake, but I think on this one, the sanctioning body and Dallara have not been able to keep the cost down, so the owners have a valid point. I think Bernard should tell them all, ok great, but in 2014 the teams who want to have different aero, CAN...and engrave it in stone. If people want to get out, they have over a year to do so, and if they want to save their money and try to find that aero package to give them a leap forward, they have a year to do so.....lots of gray area on this one, but in the end, if they want to be more than a spec series, they have to suck it up and do it.

[Anubis]

You have to spend money to make money.

Which is always easy to say when it isn't your money...

[FIAT1]

Which is always easy to say when it isn't your money...

You right, it is not our money or is it? There is a guy in Bristol Tennessee who is tearing up perfectly fine track. Why? Has money to burn? Perhaps, but No, it's for the fans. Why? Because he is a nice guy. No. Because he loves money, He knows that as it seams now as waste of money they will be back and spend more to watch what they like, and why they support that sort of thing in the first place. I'm a fan of open wheel high tech race cars, and that's what got me to watch Indycars and come to be passionate about it, new cars every year,engine developement, speed records,open competicion on all levels, big crowds, etc. Fantastic! Than it was taken away from me. Steak is gone and now i have to pay for burger for same price because it's their money and steaks are expensive. I had big hopes for next year after all the garbage we had to endure and now step back again. Bad move ,lesson not learned , how much loyal fans can take? There is spec racing that I could watch from time to time ,but would I go drive and spend money to see it? No. I'm gonna stay home ,save my money and watch it on tv and fall of sleep from boring spec crap, and they wonder why fans don't come. Where did they go? Well, understand your fan base ,and build a product they love and act like major leaague organization and they will come back. We are sick and tired of this yo yo finger pointing bs, and self serving decisions.

[Anubis]

The flip side is that owners spend ever more money on development for gains that most fans simply would not notice. Those costs needs to be justified, so they start making extra demands from the track owners and/or promoters, and what are they going to do? Either refuse to take the extra risk, especially at the moment, or pass on the increase in costs to the fans. I'd like to see variation and development in the series, but this is year one of the new car, it's already over budget and the economy is in the toilet, so you're never going to see the team owners take more financial risks than they need to. To be honest, the hardcore fans should probably be grateful they even HAVE a series and hang fire until we've had a few chassis/engine iterations to get things properly bedded in. From the aero kit manufacturer point of view, they need to know there's a viable, long term market out there before they commit their costs, so again, better to let the "new" series bed in and get stable before going full steam ahead. At the risk of descending into a tedious accounting lecture, the primary target for any event has to be break-even. If you have an event with a break-even of 30k fans, the costs you incur to support that attendance level can also support you up to a certain higher level (say 45k) before they become stepped and increase dramatically. Once you hit that step, you start needing extra facilities, people and so on, and your contribution per attendee drops, meaning those extra fans are of no benefit. Sounds counter-intuitive, but you will end up making a loss with the bigger crowd, as your break-even point has increased and you have to work that much harder to cover your costs. Plenty of businesses fail through not understanding that, and sports events are no different. You have to understand and control your costs before you start hatching any grandiose plans. If it takes a season or three for the series to stabilise costs then so be it.

The bus route example Here (http://www.ventureline.com/accounting-glossary/S/stepped-costs-definition/) covers it nicely. If you have a bus capable of carrying 40 people and demand of 50, it's not financially viable to operate a second bus, as the extra passengers do not cover the cost of operating it. You will lose money even though you appear to be growing the business. You therefore target the business at the demand you KNOW covers costs, even if it's ultimately lower than the total demand.

[FIAT1]

Indycar and owners are in this predicament by their own making. Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve. make it open competition perod and that would bring price down like in every other business. Here is a good read on the matter.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no330.html)

[FIAT1]

Indycar and owners are in this predicament by their own making. Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve. make it open competition perod and that would bring price down like in every other business. Here is a good read on the matter.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no330.html)

i meant bottom portion of the article....

[garyshell]

Indycar and owners are in this predicament by their own making. Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve. make it open competition perod and that would bring price down like in every other business. Here is a good read on the matter.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no330.html)

Open competition leads to one thing in racing, the winner is the team with the deepest pockets. Harken back to the days of Can-AM, what killed it? Porsche being willing to spend boat loads of cash. What happened to IMSA? Toyota was willing to spend boat loads of cash. I can't think of a single series where costs went down because of open rules.

Gary

[SarahFan]

I loved the sport when costs were out of control ...

[anthonyvop]

You have to spend money to make money.

Not Necessarily.



Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve.

I find that idea disturbing. The fans deserve a product of equal value of what they paid for. Above that is good for the marketing of the series but not deserved.

[jarrambide]

Indycar and owners are in this predicament by their own making. Why fans have to be deprived of the product they deserve. make it open competition perod and that would bring price down like in every other business. Here is a good read on the matter.

Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no330.html)

Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.

The way I see it, pretty much no one deserves those things, I love racing, I buy tickets when I can, I will attend the USGP in Austin, I will surely go to the Indy race in Houston next year, but I don't deserve anything, I'm not doing anything deserving of praise, I just buy tickets when I have the money, if I don't have the money, I don't go anywhere, if I have the money but I don't like the product, I don't go. simple as that,

[FIAT1]

Open competition leads to one thing in racing, the winner is the team with the deepest pockets. Gary

What is different now? Names, Roger and Chip ,but game is the same. I still want to see new cars and competition for my money ,how they going to manage it is not up to me. I remember years of open competition when team with deep pocket did not make Indy and small team build small Buick to race and did ok.

[F1boat]

I think that fans must try to understand the teams. The economic climate is bad, the teams already paid way more than expected for the new car and they simply can't afford more. Would you like to see Indy Car becoming a class series, with two teams dominating with fundamentally different car? Or worse, mass exodus from the series and 13 or 14 cars? I don't think so.

[FIAT1]

I have posted before that I'm a fan of open wheel high tech race cars, and that's what got me to watch Indycars and come to be passionate about it, new cars every year,engine developement, speed records,open competition on all levels. I don't deserve anything as someone have to give me something, but as a fan, therefore consumer of the product I do deserve best that my hard earn money and support can buy. Reading everything posted here by me one could conclude that only thing I want is for Indycar to be the best that could be. Best for the fans and Indycar in my opinion is new tech and developement of the cars and competitive nature of the beast. That would generate interest of new high tech generation of yung kids who at a moment are all plugged in some type device and would bring old fans back. Spec does not work for most of us. This year new car created buzz, next year new look and kits more buzz and that is better promotion then some silly comercial talking obout great past. Perhaps you right, I do not deserve that, but would drive with my frends to few races and spend my money for it!!!

[FIAT1]

[quote="jarrambide"]Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.


I do apologize ,I did not want my post to come a platform to run for political office. I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.

[Anubis]

Open competition leads to one thing in racing, the winner is the team with the deepest pockets. Harken back to the days of Can-AM, what killed it? Porsche being willing to spend boat loads of cash. What happened to IMSA? Toyota was willing to spend boat loads of cash. I can't think of a single series where costs went down because of open rules.

Gary

A nice comparison would be the DTM versus the Aussie V8s. One is awash with technology and has been terminally dull for years, the other is stone age in technological terms yet offers for my money the most exciting racing on the planet. In fact, the Aussie tourers probably provide a warning about costs and technology - from Wikipedia :-

"1991 was the low point for Group A touring car racing in Australia. Grid numbers plunged in a harsh economic climate. Just eleven cars entered the Wanneroo round of the ATCC and just fifteen started the once prestigious Sandown 500. On track the Touring Car Championship was dominated by the Gibson Motor Sport prepared Nissan Skyline GT-Rs of Jim Richards and Mark Skaife. Tony Longhursts new 2.5 litre evolution spec BMW M3 was the only car to interrupt the clean sweep. A final round DNF for Richards was not enough to take the title away, despite Skaife scoring more points over the course of the season. With only the best eight results counting Richards won the championship by five points. Gibson Motor Sport did not appear at the Sandown 500 but Nissan still won through the Bob Forbes owned car driven by Mark Gibbs and Formula Holden ace Rohan Onslow. Richards and Skaife swept all before them at the Bathurst 1000, establishing a race record that still stands. Third placing at Bathurst gave the Australian Endurance Championship to Gibbs and Onslow".

I'm not saying the series is perfect now, but compare today's racing to the above account, look at the financial climate and be careful what you wish for.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The fans do want some innovation. The owners want controlled costs. Yet, read anything on the history of Penske, and you learn about his "unfair advantage" theory. He has always pushed things, and tried to get a leg up. I suspect he would love to change that bodykit. I lay even money he has had people do some wind tunnel work on mods to make their cars faster if allowed.

I want some of this...but it is in the end up to the governing body to construct a set of rules and approve kits that anyone can buy. At least give team owners some options....and let nature take its course a little. I guess it is a fine line between escalating costs and a spec series, but we have choice in engines, allow some choice in body kits....

[jarrambide]

Isn't this thinking the one that has the US in problems?, Everyone thinks they deserve everything, a better car, a better house, a better smart phone, a better TV, people owe thousands in credit cards debt.


I do apologize ,I did not want my post to come a platform to run for political office. I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.


de·serve
   [dih-zurv] Show IPA verb, de·served, de·serv·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.

verb (used without object)
2.
to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense, etc.: to reward him as he deserves; an idea deserving of study.

You keep using that word, what merits do you have to "deserve" more?, What qualifications do you have to "deserve" more?

If you tell me that you want more for your money, I will understand it completely, I don't think IndyCar is offering that much quality, not even close to the old day, but wanting more for your money, and thinking you "deserve" more just because you buy a ticket, I'm going to pay a lot for the F1 race in Austin and I don't think I will deserve anything at all.

You think the ticket, airplane tickets, and hotel costs are worth it, go for it, if you think it is not worth it, don't go, but this whole speech about deserving something just sounds weird.

[FormerFF]

The racing's quite good. I'm fine with the way things are.

For technical development, there's always the ALMS.

[anthonyvop]

I'm just a fan who will buy a ticket and for my money deserve better in my opinion.

Then show your displeasure by not buying a ticket. Many others have done just that and that is why there has been so much change in IndyCar. They are trying to lure them back with what they consider a "better product"

[FIAT1]

de·serve
   [dih-zurv] Show IPA verb, de·served, de·serv·ing.

verb (used with object)
1.
to merit, be qualified for, or have a claim to (reward, assistance, punishment, etc.) because of actions, qualities, or situation: to deserve exile; to deserve charity; a theory that deserves consideration.

verb (used without object)
2.
to be worthy of, qualified for, or have a claim to reward, punishment, recompense, etc.: to reward him as he deserves; an idea deserving of study.

You keep using that word, what merits do you have to "deserve" more?, What qualifications do you have to "deserve" more?

If you tell me that you want more for your money, I will understand it completely, I don't think IndyCar is offering that much quality, not even close to the old day, but wanting more for your money, and thinking you "deserve" more just because you buy a ticket, I'm going to pay a lot for the F1 race in Austin and I don't think I will deserve anything at all.

You think the ticket, airplane tickets, and hotel costs are worth it, go for it, if you think it is not worth it, don't go, but this whole speech about deserving something just sounds weird.

..thank you google for clarifying that!!!

[FIAT1]

I think it would be great idea for some to read my posts again instead picking same lines out repeatedly, than you would see that is not obout me as much as it is for the sport that I like to be what once was. Like I have posted before ,dude in Bristol knows what his fans like and is doing something about it, eather they deserve it or not,but I'm sure he knows that money they will pay to see it, they do deserve a change. Indycar will not lure fans back by building spec series again and that is a point of the conversation in the first place.

[jarrambide]

I think it would be great idea for some to read my posts again instead picking same lines out repeatedly, than you would see that is not obout me as much as it is for the sport that I like to be what once was. Like I have posted before ,dude in Bristol knows what his fans like and is doing something about it, eather they deserve it or not,but I'm sure he knows that money they will pay to see it, they do deserve a change. Indycar will not lure fans back by building spec series again and that is a point of the conversation in the first place.
Some?, This is not the playground at an elementary school, and I'm certainly not picking on you, if you don't like my comments, you can reply to my posts and I will surely change my ways, and I will try to use a different language, I'm old enough not to waste time fighting just to fight.

You are preaching to the choir, I don't like IndyCar's quality, I would prefer something different, as a matter of fact, I would like something similar to what you want, but this is not about wanting to give fans what they deserve or not, this is not about wanting to give fans exactly what they want, this is way more complicated, this is about trying to give fans a product they will accept while trying not to destroy the series and not bankrupt most of the teams.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass, the owners pretty much destroyed AOWR , they have only themselves to blame, but I know that even f they finally want to fix this, the series is in such a dire situation, that they have to settle, fans don't have to settle, they can watch and attend other races, many watch and attend many different types of racing, I do.

[FIAT1]

Some?, This is not the playground at an elementary school, and I'm certainly not picking on you, if you don't like my comments, you can reply to my posts and I will surely change my ways, and I will try to use a different language, I'm old enough not to waste time fighting just to fight.

You are preaching to the choir, I don't like IndyCar's quality, I would prefer something different, as a matter of fact, I would like something similar to what you want, but this is not about wanting to give fans what they deserve or not, this is not about wanting to give fans exactly what they want, this is way more complicated, this is about trying to give fans a product they will accept while trying not to destroy the series and not bankrupt most of the teams.

I'm not giving anyone a free pass, the owners pretty much destroyed AOWR , they have only themselves to blame, but I know that even f they finally want to fix this, the series is in such a dire situation, that they have to settle, fans don't have to settle, they can watch and attend other races, many watch and attend many different types of racing, I do.


.....it's all good ,we are all passionate and sometimes frustrated with a situation but deep down we all want what is best for the sport.

[Marbles]

A lot of weeping and gnashing of the teeth over costs in a rich man's sport but here's the bottom line on why we well have no aero-kits next year and probably for years to follow unless there are serious efforts to open up Indycar to chassis or aero competition.

At present, with the closed chassis innovation as it has been for years, actually the lives of many fans now, a Penske or Ganassi can spend the millions to tweak those few hundredths of a second out of the car that gives them dominance. Everybody else can show up with a chassis off the shelf and be in the game and maybe even win a race... but certainly not a championship. No one, including a Ganassi or Andretti, has to worry about getting caught out investing in an inferior aero package -- never-mind chassis -- from a financial or, more importantly, competitive stand point! Sara Fisher doesn't have to worry about her money and Roger Penske doesn't have to worry about losing. The vote was probably unanimous.

All comfy and cosy!

Get used to it.

We'd still be watching that old POS Dallara if it were up to the owners which is why they shouldn't have had a vote.

[SarahFan]

That old POS dallara would have sat on pole and competed for a win at INDY this year..

Just sayin

[Marbles]

That old POS dallara would have sat on pole and competed for a win at INDY this year..

Just sayin

A 1996 Reynard could have blown both of them out of the water.

[FIAT1]

A 1996 Reynard could have blown both of them out of the water.


Agree...

2000 CART Fontana - Gil de Ferran's Closed Course Record - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF8GTL0_rMA)

...and I was there when it happened!

[Marbles]

Not if they were running the same motor.

I agree!

[jarrambide]

Not if they were running the same motor.
Starter, do you remember those threads we had many years ago about the speed of cars?
They always ended the same way, someone posting the obvious fact that the vast majority of fans (including the fans that are very knowledgeable and that attend many races of different series) can´t really tell the difference in speed on tv or on the track, not to mention the fact that if speed is what you need in OWR, then you should watch F1 and only F1, even during the times when the turbo CART cars were faster than F1 (they really loved to use the fastest series in the world monicker), they were only faster on a straight, F1 cars were still faster on any track they both used.

Who was it that every time that this type of thread started would explain that we had the technology to go way faster but that even F1 had to put limits because it was dangerous to go to the limit?, It was the member that really knew about design and motors, can{t rememebr his name, but he was right, every series could go faster, it is not about raw speed, it is about many other things.

[Marbles]

Starter, do you remember those threads we had many years ago about the speed of cars?
They always ended the same way, someone posting the obvious fact that the vast majority of fans (including the fans that are very knowledgeable and that attend many races of different series) can´t really tell the difference in speed on tv or on the track, not to mention the fact that if speed is what you need in OWR, then you should watch F1 and only F1, even during the times when the turbo CART cars were faster than F1 (they really loved to use the fastest series in the world monicker), they were only faster on a straight, F1 cars were still faster on any track they both used.

Who was it that every time that this type of thread started would explain that we had the technology to go way faster but that even F1 had to put limits because it was dangerous to go to the limit?, It was the member that really knew about design and motors, can{t rememebr his name, but he was right, every series could go faster, it is not about raw speed, it is about many other things.

Flying Wing (Stealth fighter shape) aviation has existed since the early 1960s but the only problem was a human was incapable of flying one for more than 20 minutes until complete exhaustion set in. Computer technology a few decades later made the flying wing a possibility. Even the ALMS knows that driver assist technology has its limits.

These cars ain't going any faster unless you take it out of the drivers hands.

[anthonyvop]

not to mention the fact that if speed is what you need in OWR, then you should watch F1 and only F1,


Isn't that exactly what most fans are doing?

[DBell]

Starter, do you remember those threads we had many years ago about the speed of cars?
They always ended the same way, someone posting the obvious fact that the vast majority of fans (including the fans that are very knowledgeable and that attend many races of different series) can´t really tell the difference in speed on tv or on the track, not to mention the fact that if speed is what you need in OWR, then you should watch F1 and only F1, even during the times when the turbo CART cars were faster than F1 (they really loved to use the fastest series in the world monicker), they were only faster on a straight, F1 cars were still faster on any track they both used.

Who was it that every time that this type of thread started would explain that we had the technology to go way faster but that even F1 had to put limits because it was dangerous to go to the limit?, It was the member that really knew about design and motors, can{t rememebr his name, but he was right, every series could go faster, it is not about raw speed, it is about many other things.

Sounds like your talking about Hoop98.

[jarrambide]

Isn't that exactly what most fans are doing?

I watch F1, every single race, have attended a few races, will take my dad to Austin to his first F1 race (which will make me so very happy), but:

a) I don´t watch F1 because it is the fastest OWR series, I really can´t tell the difference on the track or on TV, I watch F1 because of many other things.
b) I have always watched many other racing series, I was a huge CART fan, I still watch IndyCar races and will surely attend Houston in 2013.
c) If IndyCars somehow become the fastest cars in OWR, that will not improve the quality I perceive.

[FIAT1]

Competition and development translates to faster speeds. Speed will not improve the quality ,but chase for speed will improve competition in every way and that's what most of us want and watch F1 and ALMS and would like Indycar to go that direction and stay away from spec.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I can tell the difference in speed between an Indycar and an F1 car, but it doesn't stop my enjoyment of the Indycar series. I prefer it to F1 because the drivers have more of a say in the result I would argue in the case of f1.

This all said, seeing some sort of different thinking in the body kits is more catering to us gear heads than the common race fan. In the end, if you put on a good show, with different winners and different people capable of winning, and do it in a fashion that entertains with passing, this in the end what should count. Most of what we are arguing about it perception, and these same owners who are putting their foot down on the aerokits are the same ones the tore the sport apart with Tony George....so really, it is hard to say whether this is wrong or not in the end. I want aero kits, but the common punter who goes to one race a year and hasn't always been following the rest of the races may not care...probably not.

[FIAT1]

I can tell the difference in speed between an Indycar and an F1 car, but it doesn't stop my enjoyment of the Indycar series. I prefer it to F1 because the drivers have more of a say in the result I would argue in the case of f1.

This all said, seeing some sort of different thinking in the body kits is more catering to us gear heads than the common race fan. In the end, if you put on a good show, with different winners and different people capable of winning, and do it in a fashion that entertains with passing, this in the end what should count. Most of what we are arguing about it perception, and these same owners who are putting their foot down on the aerokits are the same ones the tore the sport apart with Tony George....so really, it is hard to say whether this is wrong or not in the end. I want aero kits, but the common punter who goes to one race a year and hasn't always been following the rest of the races may not care...probably not.

I like your post ,but we should know that common punter could watch Indylights just a same and have good outing, therefore Indycar should know their fan base and build best product from every aspect of competition to their hard core fans. New car created winter conversation and new interest in the media and fan circles, little body work updates could create more interest and so on. 75000 is not that much money and if Indycar is selling a top level product than spec is not a way to go in my opinion.

[Jag_Warrior]

The (unfortunate) bottom line is that the series and the teams have thus far been unsuccessful in finding ways to increase the commercial value of the series, to the point that sponsors will devote more money, so that they could then buy/build these aero kits and many other things. I don't think aero kits, to differentiate the cars, would be a magic bullet to greater popularity... but I do think they would help. It's going to take a lot of little things, done consistently, to increase the popularity and viewership of this series. A deep hole was dug many years ago. And it's going to take long, hard work to get out of that hole. And so far, I haven't seen the willingness or the knowledge, on the part of the powers-that-be, to accomplish that.

Teams could spend $20-$30 million a season a few years ago, buying new chassis every year and building/developing their own custom parts, because the commercial value was there to convince sponsors to write those checks. Now it's not there and they have no choice but to contain costs. But if they give the impression that they're doing it on the cheap, sponsors and fans will pick up on that, and begin to dismiss the series as second rate again. IMO, they're on a slippery slope here.

Interesting side note: I was just watching CNBC, and what did Indy Car's "home network" have on? A story about Formula One and the growing sponsorship out of the emerging markets. Force India's Paul di Resta was interviewed. And even though the yobs at CNBC included some old video of CART Indy Cars running at Indy from the early 90's, in the past 24 hours both CNBC and Bloomberg Financial have had stories on F1 and the business of F1. That leaves a positive impression among viewers and sponsors. An old question that I'll ask again: does the ICS have a press office that's at all active??? What is being done at the series and the team level to sell the series?

It's like any other area of life or business: if you want more money, prove that you deserve it.

[anthonyvop]

I watch F1, every single race, have attended a few races, will take my dad to Austin to his first F1 race (which will make me so very happy), but:

a) I don´t watch F1 because it is the fastest OWR series, I really can´t tell the difference on the track or on TV, I watch F1 because of many other things.
b) I have always watched many other racing series, I was a huge CART fan, I still watch IndyCar races and will surely attend Houston in 2013.
c) If IndyCars somehow become the fastest cars in OWR, that will not improve the quality I perceive.

Great. That is you. I even agree with you.

That still doesn't change the fact the VAST majority of race fans prefer the "Faster" series.

[jarrambide]

Sounds like your talking about Hoop98.

Indeed Hoop98.

[jarrambide]

Great. That is you. I even agree with you.

That still doesn't change the fact the VAST majority of race fans prefer the "Faster" series.

If that is the case, then they should just close the shop, IndyCars have never been, and will never be THE faster series in open wheel racing, as I said, even in the times of the Turbo CART cars when they loved to shout they were the fastest series in the world, that was just in straights, F1 cars were way faster when comparing the same tracks.

I don't know about fans right now, I can only talk about myself, maybe younger fans want THE faster series and IC will just have to go away, but I do remember a time when even tough IndyCars were nos the fastest cars in the world, they had a huuuuuuuuuuuuge fan base, great TV ratings, sold out races everywhere.

[FIAT1]

I don't think it is just obout speed and fastest ,as it is obout opening competition to get there .Indycar is not F1 and comparison is silly but they can't afford to be Indylights nether. Fastest is probably some guy in Bonneville salt flats in comparison, but stoping developement and competition and having spec series is not good for Indycar especially in society where inovation is way of life weather that be sending a man to the moon , explore mars ,building better car,computer ,phone etc.Catering to casual fan with a concert and ferris wheel is cute, but don't lose people that come back for years just to see racers in amazing fast cars breaking records from years before. Indycar have to decide what series they want to be and understand who is their fan base, and if they freeze competition I don't think they have a clue.