Should pitbulls be banned?

[gloomyDAY]

Just want to read some opinions.

[race aficionado]

What does banning mean?


Sent from my iPhone

[race aficionado]

Does banning them mean:
• prohibited to exist?
• no one is allowed to own them and if you want to see one you go to the zoo?
• (fill the blank)

[gloomyDAY]

Ban pitbulls: disallow further breeding of pitbulls and criminalize their ownership.

[Rudy Tamasz]

There's too many unknowns about pitbulls: how aggressive a given dog is, how responsible the owner is, how well he or she trains the dog etc. If there are problems in each of these departments, it is a disaster waiting to happen. I say ban 'em.

[Tazio]

Here is my two cents:
If you don't butcher it, Fillet it, ride it, or make clothes out of it, animals should be left to cull themselves in the wild. Some would be amazed how quickly nature would balance itself out.
As a matter of practicality I don't see any reason to single them out.
:s ailor: Peace

[Malbec]

Ban pitbulls: disallow further breeding of pitbulls and criminalize their ownership.

No, but licence them and criminalise ownership without a licence. Police this regulation aggressively.

Dogs of any sort will end up behaving the way they are brought up to behave. I saw on the other thread that someone claimed that German Shepherds are not dangerous, perhaps they'd like to remember that in WW1 they were used to finish off wounded soldiers in No Man's Land and were deployed by both sides for this purpose.

Make sure that responsibility for the dog's actions rest solely with the owner whether they are physically with the dog or not and imprison those whose dogs cause harm. The message should get through pretty quickly.

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not sure criminalising ownership of Pitbulls will really do much besides punish responsible dog owners. I doubt some characters breeding Pitbulls to be aggressive are fully compliant with all laws regarding animals anyway.

That said, I don't really understand chimp ownership in the US.

[Rudy Tamasz]

Is that true that you can legally adopt a cangaroo in Oz?

[BDunnell]

The trouble with this issue is that opinions are skewed to some extent depending on what one's views of dogs generally are. Personally, I detest all of them, but I wouldn't want such extreme views as mine necessarily to influence policy.

[Rollo]

Pitbulls are on the list of banned dogs in NSW and I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about it.

The utility of the law seems to be working perfectly well.


Is that true that you can legally adopt a cangaroo in Oz?

You can keep wallabies, pademelons, bettongs and potoroos with a licence in Victoria and South Australia but not the other states.

Most marsupials are on the protected species list but I doubt you'd want either a Grey or Red Kangaroo in your backyard because, you'd probably find significant damage of your house within a fortnight. A kangaroo buck can kick over fences; even ones made of steel.

[gadjo_dilo]

Dogs of any sort will end up behaving the way they are brought up to behave. I saw on the other thread that someone claimed that German Shepherds are not dangerous, perhaps they'd like to remember that in WW1 they were used to finish off wounded soldiers in No Man's Land and were deployed by both sides for this purpose.



I have a friend whose german shepard was the most gentle dog possible and was brought up to take care even of her kittens. However one day he jumped at her throat. An animal is still an animal.

[schmenke]

Yes, their ownership should be banned but, sadly, for all the wrong reasons. See my previous post in the now closed “Stupid Governments” thread.

Similar to NSW in Australia (as posted by Rollo above), the province of Ontario passed legislation a few years ago banning pit bull ownership, and there has been no public resistance to this law.

[ioan]

I have a friend whose german shepard was the most gentle dog possible and was brought up to take care even of her kittens. However one day he jumped at her throat. An animal is still an animal.

We are all animals, especially when you think about the fact that most people around the world are killed by people. Food for thought, though I am sure will be hard to digest.

PS: I've been bitten 3 times by dogs when I was a kid, once even got to the hospital when I was about 3 years old. Yet I do not have strong feelings against dogs of any kind.

[Roamy]

Ban pitbulls: disallow further breeding of pitbulls and criminalize their ownership.
thanks Gloomy you just posted the correct law

[airshifter]

I don't think any specific breed should be banned. In many areas dogs require a license but most owners don't bother with it. Until they enforce existing laws there is no sense in making more laws that will be ignored.

If they required some sort of licensing on all dogs they could address safety issues with owners. I've seen aggressive dogs of many breeds, but not all pit bulls I've seen are aggressive. Once again, many areas have leash laws that if properly enforced would get rid of the safety issue in the case of aggressive animals. As long as the owners are accountable for the actions of their dogs on public property it isn't an issue to me. In the case of private property I have no sympathy for someone jumping a fence and landing in a yard with dogs that might attack them.... those people shouldn't jump that fence.

Almost any dog will have characteristics formed by instinctual tendencies of that breed. I had a neighbor with a Border Collie that used to herd the kids. ;) I have a neighbor in the home next to mine with a pit bull that is one of the friendliest dogs you will ever meet, and quite the laid back personality. Many of these instincts are somewhat controlled by pack order and the discipline of the owners.

[SGWilko]

An animal is still an animal.

Animal instinct. Completely agree, so all dogs, when out in public should wear a muzzle and be kept on a lead.

[gadjo_dilo]

Animal instinct. Completely agree, so all dogs, when out in public should wear a muzzle and be kept on a lead.

My dear Carla can't wear a muzzle. She's a pug and has a flat snout.

[gadjo_dilo]

Almost any dog will have characteristics formed by instinctual tendencies of that breed. ..... Many of these instincts are somewhat controlled by pack order and the discipline of the owners.

And there's also the so called "pack instinct". We used to go in a park and feed the puppies from a pack of stray dogs. The adults were very friendly and playful and we even dare to pull out food from thier snouts to leave it for the little ones. Then one day one of our friends came to us in a rush and one of the stray dogs jumped at her out of the blue and bite her. The other dogs who otherwise were very calm jumped too and we have to fight with them to release her.

[Knock-on]

Banning things should be banned.

Dogs don't kill people, people kill people and guns, guns kill people too. I wonder how many more people are killed by guns than dogs but some of the sme people on here that would be up in arms ( couldn't resist ) at the suggestion of restricting ownership of an inanimate weapon yet are quite happy about culling a living pet just because a few idiots abuse the training of them.

All I can say is that nobody would dare break into my house and most of the time, the doors are left open. I don't have a gun, knife, baseball bat but a German Shepherd that's got a Bark that can cause seismic damage. He's also very loving, a valued member of the family and great fun to have around and I know several Pit Bulls that are the same.

We have Laws for people that carry knives, guns etc and people that abuse the training of their dogs so that they are a weapon should be dealt with at least as harshly.

[D-Type]

The other day i saw a bloke with shaven head, tattoos, studded leather jacket, etc and he was walking TWO pit bulls and a rottweiller. I wonder what he was over-compensating for :confused:

Back on thread: if you do decide to ban pit bulls - how do you define one?

[janvanvurpa]

The other day i saw a bloke with shaven head, tattoos, studded leather jacket, etc and he was walking TWO pit bulls and a rottweiller. I wonder what he was over-compensating for :confused:

Back on thread: if you do decide to ban pit bulls - how do you define one?

That's the exact problem. Here the equivalent is same guy, overweight, ugly, lifted noisy pickup with mud bog tires, gun racks and NRA (National Rifle Association---the huge lobbying group) and USMC stickers ( though the schmuck was never a Marine) on the bumper a walking breathing cliché. And if he speaks you know he dropped out of the 9th Grade..
I knew an idiot like that in the area I had my shop once and his Rottweiler was big and he was unloading some junk and he says "Better be careful, Bertha is trained to blah blah blah" I looked at the dog, she was relaxed, tail stub wagging so I held out a fist and said right to the dog "hey Bertha, free pets" and the dog ambled over literally smiling and 3-4 ear scratchies and Berth just leaned on me "doing the tug boat" just leaning hard..
We were instant friends.....and that dog was far far brighter than the stupid, and violent owner.

The problem is the owners and their lack of training, and lack of brains, and it not unsurprisingly, it is imparted to the dog usually.

How do you ban stupid?

[airshifter]

How do you ban stupid?

It would never work. At some point the politicians would realize they were creating a law banning many of them, so the law would get axed.

[janvanvurpa]

It would never work. At some point the politicians would realize they were creating a law banning many of them, so the law would get axed.


Same with them banning prostitution...since lobbying is allowed and that's what a lot or them are---in if the sheer numbers or those with R next to their name who were convicted in the last 20 years doesn't give a hint what the values are of that group, nothing will.
Lobbyist "Say, Senator, lookin for a good time?"
ba boom ba boom ba boom.

[Roamy]

The other day i saw a bloke with shaven head, tattoos, studded leather jacket, etc and he was walking TWO pit bulls and a rottweiller. I wonder what he was over-compensating for :confused:

Back on thread: if you do decide to ban pit bulls - how do you define one?

they have simple dna tests now

[Roamy]

Banning things should be banned.

Dogs don't kill people, people kill people and guns, guns kill people too. I wonder how many more people are killed by guns than dogs but some of the sme people on here that would be up in arms ( couldn't resist ) at the suggestion of restricting ownership of an inanimate weapon yet are quite happy about culling a living pet just because a few idiots abuse the training of them.

All I can say is that nobody would dare break into my house and most of the time, the doors are left open. I don't have a gun, knife, baseball bat but a German Shepherd that's got a Bark that can cause seismic damage. He's also very loving, a valued member of the family and great fun to have around and I know several Pit Bulls that are the same.

We have Laws for people that carry knives, guns etc and people that abuse the training of their dogs so that they are a weapon should be dealt with at least as harshly.

you can start a new thread on guns: However
Do we need this. Wonder how may chihuahua's are on the list



31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas (http://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dangerous-dogs-military-bases.php) and over 650 U.S. cities (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56495216/Estimated-U-S-Cities-Counties-and-Military-Facilities-with-Breed-Specific-Pit-Bull-Laws), pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]
Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]
The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4), the number two lethal dog breed, accounted for 84% of all fatal attacks in 2011. In the 7-year period from 2005 to 2011, this same combination accounted for 74% (157) of the total recorded deaths (213).[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]
The breakdown between pit bulls (http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/) and rottweilers (http://blog.dogsbite.org/2012/03/fatal-rottweiler-attacks-archival.html) is substantial over this 7-year period. From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 29; about one citizen every 88 days.[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]
Annual data from 2011 shows that 58% (18) of the attacks occurred to adults (21 years and older) and 42% (13) occurred to children (11 years and younger). Of the children, 62% (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.[/*:m:sz8tw7ae]

[ioan]

How do you ban stupid?

If you manage to find a way you might save us all. :)
They all say we are all born equal, good joke, so it will be difficult to ban them.

[ioan]

you can start a new thread on guns: However
Do we need this. Wonder how may chihuahua's are on the list


31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas (http://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dangerous-dogs-military-bases.php) and over 650 U.S. cities (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56495216/Estimated-U-S-Cities-Counties-and-Military-Facilities-with-Breed-Specific-Pit-Bull-Laws), pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]
Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]
The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4), the number two lethal dog breed, accounted for 84% of all fatal attacks in 2011. In the 7-year period from 2005 to 2011, this same combination accounted for 74% (157) of the total recorded deaths (213).[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]
The breakdown between pit bulls (http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/) and rottweilers (http://blog.dogsbite.org/2012/03/fatal-rottweiler-attacks-archival.html) is substantial over this 7-year period. From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 29; about one citizen every 88 days.[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]
Annual data from 2011 shows that 58% (18) of the attacks occurred to adults (21 years and older) and 42% (13) occurred to children (11 years and younger). Of the children, 62% (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.[/*:m:3tu0kgfv]

Let us know how many people were killed in car accidents last year.
IMO the leaders in the homicide statistics are the bad drivers. And the first thing that should be banned are idiots with a driving license.

[ioan]

My dear Carla can't wear a muzzle. She's a pug and has a flat snout.

Put it in your handbag. ;)

[Roamy]

Let us know how many people were killed in car accidents last year.
IMO the leaders in the homicide statistics are the bad drivers. And the first thing that should be banned are idiots with a driving license.

ok and then the pitbulls

[FormerFF]

Pit bulls aren't inherently vicious. They are very biddable, that is, they will do what their owners ask of them, even to their own detriment. The problem is that some owners abuse this characteristic because they want an aggressive dog. Take away the pit bull, and they'll do the same to a different breed. If you want to deal with this as an issue, then make it mandatory for owners to be licensed, so that you can revoke the license of irresponsible dog owners.

[ioan]

ok and then the pitbulls

Nope, idiots with firearms and stupid politicians going to war are next, pretty sure about that too.

[Garry Walker]

Dogs don't kill people

So those incidents when dogs killed people weren't actually dogs killing people, but instead...?

I don't really support a ban, but pitbulls are one of those breeds of dogs who I really really hate and despise (I despise rottweilers and dobermans as well), so the less of those creatures are around the better.


. And the first thing that should be banned are idiots with a driving license.
So basically you would take the license from every female?

[BDunnell]

So those incidents when dogs killed people weren't actually dogs killing people, but instead...?

Well, quite.

[gloomyDAY]

thanks Gloomy you just posted the correct lawHomie, you're all over the place. You seem to be a proponent of having less government interference with our daily lives, and now you want more government regulation? Make up your mind kid.

I see your statistics, and they're pretty laughable. More Americans died rolling off the bed than they did from dog attacks. Let's ban beds too! Does that make sense? No. I offer this solution: if a dog causes an injury/death, then simply have the dog euthanized and criminally punish the owners. Wait a second! That's the Status quo.

Dog fighting wasn't always something common (even though it's been in American history since the late 1800's), and didn't really take off until about 25 years ago when the mob decided to use dog fights as a way to gain some side cash. Pitbulls have the unfortunate quality of being a breed that are aggressive towards other dogs, so they're perfect for dog fighting if they are trained to do so. On the other hand, pitbulls are not human-aggressive and can be trained to be docile house pets and loving creatures (http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676).

Get your facts straight, son. Also, if you intend to actually refute any of what I posted, then can you actually go line-by-line. I really hate it when you post something along the lines of, "well, you're a liberal so you wouldn't know" or "you're anti-American, so you don't know anything," because one sentence of vitriol is pretty sad and shows a lack of articulation.


If you want to deal with this as an issue, then make it mandatory for owners to be licensed, so that you can revoke the license of irresponsible dog owners.No. Way too complicated and difficult to enforce. Another government loophole? No thanks! Dog owners who want a pup for illicit means will never attain a license. Common folk on the straight and narrow will have to fork out more cash for more policing.

Want to make your dogs fight? Sure. Go ahead. Follow Vick's path to a glorious 2-year penitentiary visit as well.


I don't really support a ban, but pitbulls are one of those breeds of dogs who I really really hate and despise (I despise rottweilers and dobermans as well), so the less of those creatures are around the better.Thanks Garry. I can live with that type of response, but I'm sure you'd agree that you're too arrogant to even care. If you despise those types of breeds, then I think I have a solution for you (http://dogbreedworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Shih-Tzu-puppies-19.jpg)! :p

[Garry Walker]

Thanks Garry. I can live with that type of response, but I'm sure you'd agree that you're too arrogant to even care. If you despise those types of breeds, then I think I have a solution for you (http://dogbreedworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Shih-Tzu-puppies-19.jpg)! :p

I have 2 st.bernards at home :P

My comments regarding those 3 breeds of dog was based on the negative experiences I have had with these dogs and their owners who tend to be stupid idiots. In fact with one of these breeds I have actually had to threaten to shoot them if I ever see these dogs near my house again - a threat I would carried out without any hesitation.

Too arrogant to care about whether you can live with my opinion or not? I would lie if I said I would lose sleep over someone agreeing or disagreeing with me on an internet forum :D

[gloomyDAY]

I really don't understand why any person would want such a powerful dog as a pet to be quite honest. I can appreciate it may make some feel a little more superior in themselves when walking down the street but the witnessing view is usually quite different.Vicious pit bull! Kills everything on sight!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lvKjwV4xY&feature=related

[Garry Walker]

Vicious pit bull! Kills everything on sight!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lvKjwV4xY&feature=related

A LION CALLED CHRISTIAN: The Touching Reunion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co3N4-6B2pM)

Should people have lions as pets as well?

[gloomyDAY]

I have 2 st.bernards at home :PAwesome dogs!


My comments regarding those 3 breeds of dog was based on the negative experiences I have had with these dogs and their owners who tend to be stupid idiots. In fact with one of these breeds I have actually had to threaten to shoot them if I ever see these dogs near my house again - a threat I would carried out without any hesitation.I don't blame you. Do what you have to do in order to protect yourself.


Too arrogant to care about whether you can live with my opinion or not? I would lie if I said I would lose sleep over someone agreeing or disagreeing with me on an internet forum :D :D


A LION CALLED CHRISTIAN: The Touching Reunion - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co3N4-6B2pM)

Should people have lions as pets as well?Sure. If they can afford to set up a sanctuary and pay the appropriate fees/licensing for a non-domesticated animal.


Not quite sure what the video has to do with what I said but there we are. I could train a Jack Russell to be vicious or play with a baby but if it got out of hand, I'm fairly sure I'd have the strength to control it. There are far nicer dogs to have amongst your children in any case and children being savaged by Spaniels is thankfully rare.I was trying to provide evidence as to how this silly "macho" persona isn't really applicable when describing a pit bull. Different dog breeds have different personalities, but it all comes down to training as to the outcome of their behavior.

[Knock-on]

So those incidents when dogs killed people weren't actually dogs killing people, but instead...?

I don't really support a ban, but pitbulls are one of those breeds of dogs who I really really hate and despise (I despise rottweilers and dobermans as well), so the less of those creatures are around the better.


I was refering to the famous NRA slogan that Eddie Izzard adopted so well.

Eddie Izzard Monkey with gun - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU)

My point is that these dogs are only a problem when abused as weapons by thugs.

There are many around my area and without exception they all exhibit friendly personas. Mostly the people that have them do have tattoos and very short hair but there is no evidence that they are anything but responsible pet owners. These people prefer a macho dog just as they might prefer Strong lager instead of Red Wine or a Ford Mondeo over a Fiat 500. To destroy a breed of dog because of a small number of thugs is a bogus arguement that the statistics that Fousto posted beautifully demonstrate. It is also worth noting that most of the deaths were the owners.

[Rudy Tamasz]

These people prefer a macho dog just as they might prefer Strong lager instead of Red Wine or a Ford Mondeo over a Fiat 500.

What a weird combination of stereotypes.

[SGWilko]

Vicious pit bull! Kills everything on sight!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17lvKjwV4xY&feature=related

Lovely - but can you guarantee something won't happen and that very dog, all of a sudden for no reason, turns and rips the cr4p out its human owners?

[BDunnell]

My point is that these dogs are only a problem when abused as weapons by thugs.

Has there never, ever, been an incident in which a dog with responsible owners has suddenly decided to attack a human? I doubt this. After all, children can sometimes go off the rails when they have enjoyed the best of parenting.



There are many around my area and without exception they all exhibit friendly personas. Mostly the people that have them do have tattoos and very short hair but there is no evidence that they are anything but responsible pet owners.

Are they people you would consider responsible in all respects, or just dog ownership?

[SGWilko]

No one can guarantee anything, but some things are much more probable than others.

You want to save lives and serious injury? Ban automobiles. They are responsible for death and serious injury many, many, orders of magnitude more than pit bulls. Those who try and legislate all risk out of life are on a foolish quest. Life is full of risk. Statistically speaking, you or I are much more likely to be harmed by our fellow man, bee and scorpion stings, drowning, snake bite and a myriad of other causes than from pit bull attacks. To those who wish to sanitize the world we live in, I say "Get a life".

Completely agree. I was kinda erring on the side of 'there are plenty of don't give a stuff parents who'd leave their kids unattended with the dog'. Now, that's fine for little ****zu or Chihuha job that does a smaller crap than an earthworm, but not when you keep a pitbull or a rottweiler with teeth that'd scare Roy Scheider!

[Knock-on]

Has there never, ever, been an incident in which a dog with responsible owners has suddenly decided to attack a human? I doubt this. After all, children can sometimes go off the rails when they have enjoyed the best of parenting.



Are they people you would consider responsible in all respects, or just dog ownership?

Why do you have to use such dogmatic ;) arguements that imply claims never made.

Nobody ever claimed that dogs can't go off the rails the sme ways as humans can develop psychotic behaviour or suffer breakdowns.

Also, I never made any claim that these dog owners were anything apart from what I had observed and that was that IMO they seem like responsible dog owners. I make no claims as to their lives in general.

The hysteria surrounding the danger of dogs is worthy of the finest Daily Mail campaigns. There is a small problem that nobody is denying but some people go on as if this is a major danger when the reality is much different.

[donKey jote]

strange this thread hasn't been mauled yet :p :andrea:

[driveace]

Not my kind of dog,don't see anything about them that I like,but the same goes for lots of other dogs too!I prefer a more placid dog such as a Labrador much nicer dog all together

[markabilly]

you can start a new thread on guns: However
Do we need this. Wonder how may chihuahua's are on the list



31 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2011. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas (http://www.dogsbite.org/legislating-dangerous-dogs-military-bases.php) and over 650 U.S. cities (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56495216/Estimated-U-S-Cities-Counties-and-Military-Facilities-with-Breed-Specific-Pit-Bull-Laws), pit bulls led these attacks accounting for 71% (22). Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.3[/*:m:4cu628nu]
Notably in 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims. Of the 22 total pit bull victims, 68% (15) fell between the ages of 32 to 76, and 32% (7) were ages 5 years and younger.[/*:m:4cu628nu]
The year 2011 also marks an increase in pet pit bulls killing their owners. Of the 8 total instances this year in which a family dog inflicted fatal injury to its primary caretaker, the dog's owner, 88% (7) involved pet pit bulls.[/*:m:4cu628nu]
Together, pit bulls (22) and rottweilers (4), the number two lethal dog breed, accounted for 84% of all fatal attacks in 2011. In the 7-year period from 2005 to 2011, this same combination accounted for 74% (157) of the total recorded deaths (213).[/*:m:4cu628nu]
The breakdown between pit bulls (http://www.fatalpitbullattacks.com/) and rottweilers (http://blog.dogsbite.org/2012/03/fatal-rottweiler-attacks-archival.html) is substantial over this 7-year period. From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 29; about one citizen every 88 days.[/*:m:4cu628nu]
Annual data from 2011 shows that 58% (18) of the attacks occurred to adults (21 years and older) and 42% (13) occurred to children (11 years and younger). Of the children, 62% (8) occurred to ages 1 and younger.[/*:m:4cu628nu]


I grew up around large dogs.

If a doberman or german shephard attacks, the bites will be painful for an adult, but I was taught how to defend myself against such attacks, and if necessary even kill one of them by grabbing them undernaeth the neck and crushing their windpipe. Now it can be hard to do that, while the dog is chewing your arm off, but it can be done.

Unfortunately, children are likely to be killed or seriously hurt, often with torn off ears and body parts that can not be replaced, and so forth. One child lost her entire nose, when a german shepahard jumped a fence, and then came in through a screen door in a viscous attack.

Usually the best way to deal with the threat from such a dog, is to NOT RUN. When you run, they chase, because of their hunter instinct. Stand your ground, do not act afraid and do not act like you are going to attack, do not kick or hit at them, and act like you belong there.

A pitbull is totally different. They are likely to attack anyway, no matter what you do, once they are slipping into the attack mode......There is no way an adult can stop their attack. The neck is about as thick and muscular as it can be. :(


Only thing useful to successfully defend one's self, is a gun




The dogs are illegally used in the deep south to fight each other in pits. Micheal Vick went to prision because of such activities. :up: should still be there....................

Before that, in the good ole days of merry old england, when there was not anyone who needed to be drawn and quartered on a stage, with their guts being pulled out very slow........

So as an alternative, to provide amusement to everyone, from the lowest peasant to the highest royalty, kings and all, one or two pit bulls were thrown into pits with bulls and bears in a fight to the death, which the dog often won......with jaws crushing the vertebrae of the bull. :vader:


all dogs will attack...........but none is nearly as likely to be so devasting as a pit bull

That scene with the dog and child....well, all it takes is for the child to jump or run at the wrong moment and the dog's attack instinct will take over. The dog does not heve to have been abused or mistreated, it could have been a sweet puppy all its life, but it is just doing what almost any dog will do. Attack something that is acting like prey or presenting a threat.

[markabilly]

Not quite sure what the video has to do with what I said but there we are. I could train a Jack Russell to be vicious or play with a baby but if it got out of hand, I'm fairly sure I'd have the strength to control it. There are far nicer dogs to have amongst your children in any case and children being savaged by Spaniels is thankfully rare.

training the dog to be mean or to be nice is not necessary at all. When dogs attack, be it a pitbull or some toy poodle, it is almost always because the dog felt threatened or even more likely, some (often innocent) act triggered the dog's instincts for chasing and hunting down prey took over.... :(

Mistreatment increases the probability of an attack because the dog acts unfriendly, barks and scares people into reacting in the wrong fashion, but that attack potential is always present in any dog

[markabilly]

strange this thread hasn't been mauled yet :p :andrea:

i was busy on other things.....

[race aficionado]

strange this thread hasn't been mauled yet :p :andrea:

We should put the lid down on this one.

oops . . . sorry that was for another thread that has since been flushed.
sorry.

Carry on.

:)

[donKey jote]

We should put the lid down on this one.

oops . . . sorry that was for another thread that has since been flushed.


I guess someone got pissed off... :)

[Rudy Tamasz]

From the recent news in my country. A staffordshire terrier owner brought his pet for the first time from the city to the countryside. The inexperienced dog had never seen animals at large, so when he saw a young horse he decided to do a little hunting. As a result his owner had to pay the damage for the dead horse.

[Roamy]

Yep here we go again with these worthless pieces of sh!t - What they need to do is declare open season on them.
Pit bulls attack, kill Wisconsin toddler
Published March 06, 2013
Associated Press

TOWN OF WALWORTH, Wis. – Authorities say a young boy has died after he was attacked by a couple of pit bulls in southeastern Wisconsin.
According to the Walworth County sheriff's office, the county coroner's office confirmed that the boy died of his injuries at a Milwaukee area hospital about 3:30 p.m. Wednesday.
The sheriff's office got a 911 call from a 30-year-old woman Wednesday saying she and a 14-month-old boy were being attacked by pit bulls.





Read more: Pit bulls attack, kill Wisconsin toddler | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/06/pit-bull-attacks-kills-wisconsin-toddler/#ixzz2MpXxi3wZ)

[henners88]

Dogs like that are simply unfit for a domestic lifestyle especially where children are concerned. You'd have to be mental to allow small children near a pit-bull and unsupervised. They are far too powerful to control should something go wrong. I wouldn't want to wipe their breed out completely, but dogs like that have certain uses, one being defence in a working sense. They are not domestic animals simple as.

[Roamy]

correct henners - i have 4 oz of police pepper spray and a glock 10mm and I am not even sure if i would try spraying first.

[SGWilko]

What a weird combination of stereotypes.

The mother of one of the private tenants in our old housing estate (murder towers we affectionately called it) could often be seen in her back garden - which from the moment they moved in had not been laid to turf, just bare earth - mowing the 2-3ft long weeds. Her son had several pittbulls he bred in the garage. I'd suggest such stereotypes were tailor made for oiks such as that........

[henners88]

What a weird combination of stereotypes.
I know its an old post of yours, but welcome to the chav-ier side of Great Britain. Stereotype it is not unfortunately lol.

[Valve Bounce]

Just want to read some opinions.

We should ask pino really. I guess if they don't bite anyone here, then they should be allowed to enjoy posting here, same as Chihuahuas. Maybe Mark could shed some light.

[BDunnell]

I know its an old post of yours, but welcome to the chav-ier side of Great Britain. Stereotype it is not unfortunately lol.

Maybe not, but it is overused.

[henners88]

Maybe not, but it is overused.
The word 'stereotype' or the definition in this case?

[BDunnell]

The word 'stereotype' or the definition in this case?

The notion of the 'chav'. It gets thrown around, often purely on grounds of appearance, and I think it's quite demeaning.

[henners88]

The notion of the 'chav'. It gets thrown around, often purely on grounds of appearance, and I think it's quite demeaning.
I suppose some of us are more tolerant than others depending on our experiences. :)

[Malbec]

Also, I never made any claim that these dog owners were anything apart from what I had observed and that was that IMO they seem like responsible dog owners. I make no claims as to their lives in general.

The hysteria surrounding the danger of dogs is worthy of the finest Daily Mail campaigns. There is a small problem that nobody is denying but some people go on as if this is a major danger when the reality is much different.

I think what isn't portrayed in the media is that a lot of these 'chav' dog owners with pit bulls and other breeds are serious hobbyists, dog nerds if you will who do actually take tremendous care of their dogs and do research into their care and breeding.

I know someone with a rottweiler who told me that when she takes it for walks in the park she gets approached by aggressive looking hoodies all the time who just want to talk dog, swap tips, give and fish for compliments and the like.

Of course a sizeable number of owners are not like this and do not take care of their dogs sufficiently well.

Personally I think mandatory dog chipping is in order, then it would be easy to identify rogue dog owners and take the dogs out of circulation.

[BDunnell]

I think what isn't portrayed in the media is that a lot of these 'chav' dog owners with pit bulls and other breeds are serious hobbyists, dog nerds if you will who do actually take tremendous care of their dogs and do research into their care and breeding.

Sadly, people see someone they consider merely on the grounds of appearance to be a 'chav' (I hate the word) with such a dog and draw entirely incorrect conclusions.

[henners88]

I used to use the word 'townie' and perhaps it doesn't carry the same cultural meaning as 'chav' or is perceived as offensive. In Wales you get lads who drive around in badly modded cars, hang around the many suntan shops on town, wear mock diamond ear rings, use steroids, and abuse you as you walk past. They are affectionately known as 'buttys' or 'Kevins'. I think as a society we just find names for social groups whether some find them offensive or not. I've been labelled enough in my time. I've been called mosher, stoner, student, posh boy you name it but I'm a little less sensitive about it :)

[BDunnell]

I used to use the word 'townie' and perhaps it doesn't carry the same cultural meaning as 'chav' or is perceived as offensive. In Wales you get lads who drive around in badly modded cars, hang around the many suntan shops on town, wear mock diamond ear rings, use steroids, and abuse you as you walk past. They are affectionately known as 'buttys' or 'Kevins'. I think as a society we just find names for social groups whether some find them offensive or not. I've been labelled enough in my time. I've been called mosher, stoner, student, posh boy you name it but I'm a little less sensitive about it :)

It's got nothing to do with sensitivity. I'm not at all keen on the sort of easy labelling one comes across all too often, not least because it can be used to demonise certain groups.

[henners88]

I think my views on homophobia, racism and discrimination are well documented on here. I'm not going to be lectured because I used the word chav. I certainly don't use words like that to attack people and will leave it like that.

[BDunnell]

I think my views on homophobia, racism and discrimination are well documented on here. I'm not going to be lectured because I used the word chav. I certainly don't use words like that to attack people and will leave it like that.

I'm not actually having a go at you, and am well aware you're a very tolerant person. All I'm saying is that I personally dislike that word and wish it wasn't used so liberally.

[henners88]

Fair enough, apologies.

[Donney]

I think the pitbull as a breed should be kept and ban it as a musician.

[gloomyDAY]

Yep here we go again with these worthless pieces of sh!t - What they need to do is declare open season on them.
Dogs will assert their dominance if not trained adequately, and any type of dog could've harmed a toddler. Hell, little dogs have been known to bite kids' noses and ears if left unattended. I read the article and it seems that the dogs were put in a position to fail. You never leave a small child unattended with any dog, regardless of its breed.


Dogs like that are simply unfit for a domestic lifestyle especially where children are concerned. You'd have to be mental to allow small children near a pit-bull and unsupervised. They are far too powerful to control should something go wrong. I wouldn't want to wipe their breed out completely, but dogs like that have certain uses, one being defence in a working sense. They are not domestic animals simple as.Pit bulls are domesticated animals. The problem I see for the most part is the owner. A lot of people exploit a pit bull's dog-aggressive nature and it can backfire. Pit bulls and children do mix, but supervision is always a requisite.


correct henners - i have 4 oz of police pepper spray and a glock 10mm and I am not even sure if i would try spraying first.Okay, tough guy! You must be a really insecure person to flaunt around the fact that you own a 10 mm pistol (bet you can't hit the backside of a barn). I see that you got your source from Faux News, and they're in the business of making headlines without substance.

If you want to feel big and mighty about killing dogs, then here's a list of other breeds you should kill as well:

Rottweiler
German Shepherd
Presa canario
Doberman Pinscher
Great Dane
Labrador Retriever
Husky
Alaskan Malamute
Bullmastiff
Wolfdog
Catahoula Bulldog
Chow Chow-Mix
Jack Russell Terrier
Old English Sheepdog
Australian Shepherd
Blue Heeler
Mongrels
Weimaraner
Boxer
Akita
Cane Corso
Golden Retriever

These dogs have also been known to kill people, so I guess your idea is to wipeout all dogs with any aggression. Also, a lot of the dogs I listed are also mistakenly referred to as pit bulls, so that also garners a lot of negative attention on the wrong breed.

[Valve Bounce]

Gee! that's a lot of dogs my Benny has to look out for. :(

[Knock-on]

Another shocking death.

BBC News - Tributes to Jade Anderson after Atherton dog attack (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21951289)

For the record, it was 2 Mastifs and 2 Staffies. Don't know the 5th.

Although it's on average 'only' one death on average per year, a shocking 200k people each year are attacked by dogs. What constitutes a attack is not specified but it's an alarming statistic.

5 Dogs in a smallish house is stupidity and I suspect we will discover they were not looked after by responsible owners. The sooner owner registration and compulsory chipping comes out, the better.

[Rudy Tamasz]

About two weeks ago I was walking through a city garden as I was attacked by a mouse sized dog for no apparent reason. The situation looked comic as this dwarf was barking hysterically and trying to bite me while I tried to protect myself by grabbing it and throwing it into a pile of snow. Then the doggy decided there was enough of that and ran away. That's not the story, though. The story was the owner, a twelve or something year old girl who was standing there, apparently having no clue about what to do. She had no control over her dog. In the evening of the same day my wife had a very similar incident with a smallish dog and a clueless owner girl. When these girls grow up and their husbands/boyfriends buy them bigger and stronger dogs, they are still unlikely to know what to do with them in such situations.

[henners88]

My point with dogs has always been that the owner is much to blame when their dogs go out of control. A dog is an animal, it doesn't have logic, or the same emotional characteristics that humans have and will obviously react very differently. Any dog can become aggressive, but you have a better chance of controlling a Spaniel, Jack Russell, Collie in comparison to a Pit Bull or any other powerful hunting dog. You would have to be off your box to buy a Pit Bull when you live in a house with children. By doing so you are irresponsible and should be held accountable should something go wrong, meaning serious jail time. I've always been around dogs, but my parents never left me alone with one at an early age. Our Border Collie would nip and although never got aggressive, we still didn't trust her around children. Why anyone would want a Pit Bull as a family pet is beyond me.

[Starter]

My point with dogs has always been that the owner is much to blame when their dogs go out of control. A dog is an animal, it doesn't have logic, or the same emotional characteristics that humans have and will obviously react very differently. Any dog can become aggressive,but you have a better chance of controlling a Spaniel, Jack Russell, Collie in comparison to a Pit Bull or any other powerful hunting dog. You would have to be off your box to buy a Pit Bull when you live in a house with children. By doing so you are irresponsible and should be held accountable should something go wrong, meaning serious jail time. I've always been around dogs, but my parents never left me alone with one at an early age. Our Border Collie would nip and although never got aggressive, we still didn't trust her around children. Why anyone would want a Pit Bull as a family pet is beyond me.
The only possible response to this is, of course, bull excrement :p . A dogs size has nothing to do with whether it's been properly socialized and trained. Bad owners cause many, many more dog bites than bad dogs. Children are perfectly safe around any properly trained dog. My niece and her pit bull, Happy, are a good example.

[henners88]

If you are willing to take the risk then that's fine. I didn't suggest a dogs size has any bearing on its temperament. I said they are easier to control if they are less powerful should something go wrong and it does happen. I stand by my opinion and no amount of examples of little girls living with pit bulls who haven't been attacked is going to change that. That's not the point I was making.

[D-Type]

It appears that in the Atherton case the girl was staying at a friend's house and brought in a pie which she was eating in front of the dogs ....

[SGWilko]

Don't ban pitbulls, just ban morons, the uneducated or thick from owning them.

If it is stoopid enough to wear a tracksuit and hoodie, it should be kept away from dogs!

Sent from NIMBY HQ ;)

[henners88]

Don't ban pitbulls, just ban morons, the uneducated or thick from owning them.

If it is stoopid enough to wear a tracksuit and hoodie, it should be kept away from dogs!
These types of dogs are required by law to be muzzled in public. I don't see why there couldn't be a license for certain breeds where its also illegal to own them in a family environment? It doesn't stop people owning them, but makes sure the right type of people are owning them IMO. Unfortunately powerful breeds like these are sometimes purchased as status symbols by people who think it adds to their self perceived hard image. It doesn't do the breed much good allowing this type of irresponsible purchase.

[Starter]

These types of dogs are required by law to be muzzled in public. I don't see why there couldn't be a license for certain breeds where its also illegal to own them in a family environment? It doesn't stop people owning them, but makes sure the right type of people are owning them IMO. Unfortunately powerful breeds like these are sometimes purchased as status symbols by people who think it adds to their self perceived hard image. It doesn't do the breed much good allowing this type of irresponsible purchase.
Good idea. Let's also require background checks of owners before they are allowed to get the dog. We should also require them to get a "carry" permit before they can take the dogs out in public. The dogs need to have serial numbers tattooed on them also. That's so the dogs that are pit bull mixes can be identified. All of the serial numbers must be registered with the local police. I'd strongly urge that dobermans, german shepherds, and rottweilers be included in this group. Probably be a good idea to ban the little ankle biter dogs over twelve inches long too.

[henners88]

Seems reasonable apart from the last sentence.

[Starter]

Seems reasonable apart from the last sentence.
What is wrong with the last sentence? The smaller dogs, under a foot that will fit in a purse or bag, should be restricted to people who can obtain a hard to get concealed carry permit, where they have to show a "reasonable need" to have the dog.

[henners88]

Sounds to me like you are getting a little confused between gun laws and a suggestion I made about stricter rules for owning powerful dogs. I can appreciate you are trying to be funny with a dose of sarcasm, but hey. I wouldn't expect my suggestion to be implemented over the pond as that would be unrealistic and doesn't affect the society I live in. I'm just giving my opinion based on what I think is a reasonable measure over here.

[Starter]

Sounds to me like you are getting a little confused between gun laws and a suggestion I made about stricter rules for owning powerful dogs. I can appreciate you are trying to be funny with a dose of sarcasm, but hey. I wouldn't expect my suggestion to be implemented over the pond as that would be unrealistic and doesn't affect the society I live in. I'm just giving my opinion based on what I think is a reasonable measure over here.
I know, just poking a little fun at the idea. It's amazing how easy it is to make almost anything seem ridiculous if you take it to the extreme.

[SGWilko]

Are you talking about the dog or the singer Pitbull ? I read some of the posts and it seem it is the dog you are talking about..... And i believe it shouldn't. Like i had one now its not with me, my bro is keeping it but it is a very nice to have it. When i used to be out, it used to keep everyone out of my room and when sometime out with me, i remember it protecting my stuff on the beach while i was just on my surfboard :p That was cool :)

My dog drives the van while I am catching were rabbits......

[Knock-on]

Oh Lord. The reincarnation of who are you??

[SGWilko]

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=10151229104977745&set=vb.100554703355336&type=2&theater

Prime example of morons......

[donKey jote]

Oh Lord. The reincarnation of who are you??

wade?

[Roamy]

There should be a 25K bounty on any pitbull

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Banning specific breeds justs makes them become status symbols for morons who think a dog makes them look hard. In a way it probably increases demand for them....because there are a lot of morons out there.

[henners88]

I know, just poking a little fun at the idea. It's amazing how easy it is to make almost anything seem ridiculous if you take it to the extreme.
Indeed. I wasn't suggesting anything extreme, just a suggestion to control something that allows idiots with no common sense to have access to such breeds.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?v=10151229104977745&set=vb.100554703355336&type=2&theater
Prime example of morons......
Wow. That video beggars belief! How parents can be quite so irresponsible is beyond me. Listening to the playful comments from the parents, its clear they are particularly naive to how stressed that dog is getting however. Animals don't always understand the way humans play, and when you play with a dog its usually different to how two children would play with each other. I think its a lack of education/knowledge in relation to animal behaviour in this case.

I'm no animal expert but I watched that video expecting the dog to turn and get aggressive, not because of the breed, just because of the stress it was under. Any breed of dog in that situation would likely get aggressive or at least give off a warning bark, and its testament this particular dog kept its cool. My point previously in this thread was about control. If the dog in that video had turned and started ripping that baby to pieces, would the owners be able to intervene in time? Its a powerful dog and some dogs are easier to bring under control than others. I remember a staff terrier going for my dog once on a walk and our Border Collie tried to hide behind my legs. I must have kicked the staff 20 times to put it off and was amazed how strong they are. Not nice.


Banning specific breeds justs makes them become status symbols for morons who think a dog makes them look hard. In a way it probably increases demand for them....because there are a lot of morons out there.
Yeah banning is not the answer. Certain breeds are banned already in the UK but you still see them about. I saw a guy walking an Dogo Argentino the other day. I doubt he had a license to own it either. Tighter controls with justification for ownership is all we need IMHO.

[markabilly]

Indeed. I wasn't suggesting anything extreme, just a suggestion to control something that allows idiots with no common sense to have access to such breeds.


Wow. That video beggars belief! How parents can be quite so irresponsible is beyond me. Listening to the playful comments from the parents, its clear they are particularly naive to how stressed that dog is getting however. Animals don't always understand the way humans play, and when you play with a dog its usually different to how two children would play with each other. I think its a lack of education/knowledge in relation to animal behaviour in this case.

I'm no animal expert but I watched that video expecting the dog to turn and get aggressive, not because of the breed, just because of the stress it was under. Any breed of dog in that situation would likely get aggressive or at least give off a warning bark, and its testament this particular dog kept its cool. My point previously in this thread was about control. If the dog in that video had turned and started ripping that baby to pieces, would the owners be able to intervene in time? Its a powerful dog and some dogs are easier to bring under control than others. I remember a staff terrier going for my dog once on a walk and our Border Collie tried to hide behind my legs. I must have kicked the staff 20 times to put it off and was amazed how strong they are. Not nice.


Yeah banning is not the answer. Certain breeds are banned already in the UK but you still see them about. I saw a guy walking an Dogo Argentino the other day. I doubt he had a license to own it either. Tighter controls with justification for ownership is all we need IMHO.

Much of what you say is true. However, I do beleive in banning them.


Having been around pit bulls when I was much younger, I would say that the ones I was around were very even tempered, sweet and loved their owners-----and certainly no more aggressive, indeed less aggressive and mean tempered---than many other much smaller dogs.

The problem is that what they were bred for in merry ole england, presents the danger of these dogs. In days before england lost its enjoyment for such activities, these dogs were bred to fight to the death in pits against bulls and bears.

A dog that is capable of biting through the vertrebrae of a bulls neck and killing it, is not a dog that can be dealt with by your actions of : "I remember a staff terrier going for my dog once on a walk and our Border Collie tried to hide behind my legs. I must have kicked the staff 20 times to put it off and was amazed how strong they are. Not nice. "

Indeed, it had it been a proper pit bull, I doubt that either you or your dog would be around today. Only one way to stop one when they decide to attack. But you don't want to hear about the use of guns and when the gun is not available, well.....





Elizabethan Bear & Bull Baiting (http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/elizabethan-bear-bull-baiting.htm)

[Roamy]

There is no viable argument for the presence of Pit Bulls anywhere - period end of fzking story.

[henners88]

Much of what you say is true. However, I do beleive in banning them.


Having been around pit bulls when I was much younger, I would say that the ones I was around were very even tempered, sweet and loved their owners-----and certainly no more aggressive, indeed less aggressive and mean tempered---than many other much smaller dogs.

The problem is that what they were bred for in merry ole england, presents the danger of these dogs. In days before england lost its enjoyment for such activities, these dogs were bred to fight to the death in pits against bulls and bears.

A dog that is capable of biting through the vertrebrae of a bulls neck and killing it, is not a dog that can be dealt with by your actions of : "I remember a staff terrier going for my dog once on a walk and our Border Collie tried to hide behind my legs. I must have kicked the staff 20 times to put it off and was amazed how strong they are. Not nice. "

Indeed, it had it been a proper pit bull, I doubt that either you or your dog would be around today. Only one way to stop one when they decide to attack. But you don't want to hear about the use of guns and when the gun is not available, well.....

Elizabethan Bear & Bull Baiting (http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/elizabethan-bear-bull-baiting.htm)
Yeah I appreciate what you are saying markabilly. The Argentino I saw the other day are bred to kill Puma's so that is some indication of the damage they could potentially do to a human and the guy was just walking it through the park not muzzled I might add. I didn't think a ban would work which is why I suggested not to do it, but if dogs like these could be banned effectively then I would support it. Just why do average people need to own Pit Bull's? I'm still a dog lover but you have to employ common sense IMO. The staff terrier experience was quite frightening as I've known quite a few people who have owned them growing up. It wasn't actually going for me at the time but was relentless at trying to get to our dog 'Meg'. The owner was looking for it and missed the contact we had but I remember filling them in and asked them to control it in future. Not exactly greeted nicely either, but no doubt they would have taken note should I have killed their dog. As you say had it been a pit bull I would probably either be seriously injured or dead.

[airshifter]

A bunch of scare tactics I say. Many if not most dogs would mess up a kid in a hurry if they want to.

At for pit bulls, the neighbor has one and when out he wanders over from time to time. He is welcome in the garage and the house.

[henners88]

A bunch of scare tactics I say. Many if not most dogs would mess up a kid in a hurry if they want to.

At for pit bulls, the neighbor has one and when out he wanders over from time to time. He is welcome in the garage and the house.
Examples of domesticated pit bulls being adorable pets is all very well, but there is a clear difference between this type of dog and your average spaniel when they do attack. Its not a case of scaring people about this specific breed. Its about common sense and knowing what you are dealing with. If you've ever seen video's of a pit bull attacks, you'll know that they can kill in seconds and are indeed bred to do that. They can be lovable pets, but you need to be aware of what they can do if provoked and the power they bring. You simply don't allow them to be alone around small children and any intelligent person wouldn't do that. That's all.

[D-Type]

That is the crux of the argument. Some breeds of dog are so powerful that they can be killers. Compound that with aggressive characteristics have been bred into the strain and you have the potential for a nasty accident. Then add in an owner who doesn't understand canine psychology and it becomes inevitable.

So, what can be done?
- Ban certain breeds. This is only feasible if in parallel, a licensing system is set up to allow breeders to continue to breed them as working dogs.
- Legislate that certain breeds must be muzzled 24/7. This won't work as the stereotype of irresponsible owner will ignore it.
- Introduce heavy penalties - 6 months for an attack increasing with the severity to, say, 5 years for a fatal attack. This won't work as (a) our stereeotypical owner will believe his dog won't attack, and (b) An owner can deny ownership unless chipping is introduced and enforced, (c) As we know, even the mildest, gentlest dog will attack under certain circumstances.

I can't think of a workable solution

[airshifter]

Examples of domesticated pit bulls being adorable pets is all very well, but there is a clear difference between this type of dog and your average spaniel when they do attack. Its not a case of scaring people about this specific breed. Its about common sense and knowing what you are dealing with. If you've ever seen video's of a pit bull attacks, you'll know that they can kill in seconds and are indeed bred to do that. They can be lovable pets, but you need to be aware of what they can do if provoked and the power they bring. You simply don't allow them to be alone around small children and any intelligent person wouldn't do that. That's all.

I can completely agree with the above, however in day to day life children are exposed to a number of things that could kill them. We don't suggest banning all of them. I'd venture to say that falls on stairs probably kill more children than pit bull attacks do. The solution is responsible people and parents, not banning a breed.

How many kids lives are taken by cars annually?

[donKey jote]

The small difference being of course, that stairs or cars don't have a killer instinct let alone a mind of their own ...

[henners88]

I can completely agree with the above, however in day to day life children are exposed to a number of things that could kill them. We don't suggest banning all of them. I'd venture to say that falls on stairs probably kill more children than pit bull attacks do. The solution is responsible people and parents, not banning a breed.

How many kids lives are taken by cars annually?
I don't quite see the relevance of 'anything can be dangerous'. I'm sure more children are killed by cars each year. Not surprising when there are millions of cars on the road. Contrast that to how many households have pit bulls and you have to weigh up the comparison. I made it clear previously that common sense and supervision is needed with children around any breed of dog. The question is, if you had a young family would you then go out and buy a pit bull as the chosen family pet? Highly doubtful but there are morons out there that would do that which is why I supported some kind of legislation where certain breeds are only sold as working dogs. It limits the danger that's all. :)

[Starter]

I made it clear previously that common sense and supervision is needed with children around any breed of dog.
You are completely correct, couldn't agree more.


The question is, if you had a young family would you then go out and buy a pit bull as the chosen family pet? Highly doubtful but there are morons out there that would do that which is why I supported some kind of legislation where certain breeds are only sold as working dogs. It limits the danger that's all. :)
Once again, you are superimposing the actions of a few bad owners on an entire breed of dog. Shame.

[Tazio]

The small difference being a mind of their own Maybe Pitbulls should ban humans :andrea:

[henners88]

Once again, you are superimposing the actions of a few bad owners on an entire breed of dog. Shame.
Not every pit bull that attacks other dogs or the cases where children have been attacked and fatally killed have come from bad owners. You accuse me of ignoring the actions of 'a few' bad owners when you yourself are not considering the alternative. Ask ex NASA astronaut Mark Kelly if he is a bad owner after his pit bull ripped apart a seal on a beach recently? Pit Bulls have the instinct to kill, its what they are bred for which makes them one of the more dangerous dogs to own. Most dog breeds struggle to identify that children are not other animals which is why animal psychologists think children are often mistaken by the dog.

The part in which you quoted me begs the question. Would you seriously trust pit bull around a a small child? Come on now Starter, I can't honestly believe you would answer yes to that question! I know you guys have grown up in a different culture where you fear violence, but this is very different. Even Pit Bull owners sites recommend you don't have them with young families for goodness sake.

[airshifter]

I don't quite see the relevance of 'anything can be dangerous'. I'm sure more children are killed by cars each year. Not surprising when there are millions of cars on the road. Contrast that to how many households have pit bulls and you have to weigh up the comparison. I made it clear previously that common sense and supervision is needed with children around any breed of dog. The question is, if you had a young family would you then go out and buy a pit bull as the chosen family pet? Highly doubtful but there are morons out there that would do that which is why I supported some kind of legislation where certain breeds are only sold as working dogs. It limits the danger that's all. :)

My daughter grew up in a house with stairs, and a dog (though not a pit bull). What you are suggesting IMO is attempting to keep morons safe. Morons generally won't be safe with their children, nor will they claim responsibility. Laws banning certain breeds would only punish the cautious and intelligent dog owners, and the idiots would ignore the law and get one regardless.

Our dog once slightly growled at our daughter. She was playing but he was getting irritated. I clarify... he did it once and once only. I made it clear after that one time that she was dominant in the "pack order" and if she did irritate him away from our eyes he was to remain passive in ALL circumstances. He obeyed as if he understood English, not because I'm some pet whisperer, but because I was a responsible enough dog owner to understand how to train a dog.

[Knock-on]

We have had 'scare' stories every decade. I think it's been Alsatian, Doberman, Pitbull, Staffies etc.

I have a German that is as friendly as you will get. Walking down Guildford High Street today, I was shocked at the amount of people that gave him a pat or a fuss when I was waiting for the future ex-Mrs Knockie to exit yet another shop. Not once did anyone ask me if the dog was ok with this. I would Never pat a strange dog without asking the owner but fortunately my dog is placid.

However, I wouldn't have him if I had small children and watch him like a hawk if small kids are about. Not because I'm worried about him but he's a big boy and an animal. It wouldn't be responsible.

Owners need to be responsible as do non-owners. Pets are wonderfull but they are animals at the end of the day.

[Roamy]

You are completely correct, couldn't agree more.


Once again, you are superimposing the actions of a few bad owners on an entire breed of dog. Shame.

What are you brain dead 150 people dead in 5 yrs and you say Oh bad owners - you need to get a grip and send these dogs to Dr Winchester !!

[Tazio]

Yes let's kill everything that is potentially dangerous :s tareup: :dozey:

[D-Type]

We have had 'scare' stories every decade. I think it's been Alsatian, Doberman, Pitbull, Staffies etc.

I have a German that is as friendly as you will get. Walking down Guildford High Street today, I was shocked at the amount of people that gave him a pat or a fuss when I was waiting for the future ex-Mrs Knockie to exit yet another shop. Not once did anyone ask me if the dog was ok with this. I would Never pat a strange dog without asking the owner but fortunately my dog is placid.

However, I wouldn't have him if I had small children and watch him like a hawk if small kids are about. Not because I'm worried about him but he's a big boy and an animal. It wouldn't be responsible.

Owners need to be responsible as do non-owners. Pets are wonderfull but they are animals at the end of the day.
If the dog wasn't placid would you have taken him down the high street without a muzzle? Of course you wouldn't - you're a responsible owner who understands dogs. That's what the public assumed. It's the irresponsible owners and those who don't know how to train and handle a dog that create the problem.

I grew up with dogs. When I meet a dog in the street there are some I would pat readily (after introducing myself by letting it sniff my hand) and there are some where I'd ask the owner first. It depends on the breed, the dog's body language and the owner's body language. Having said that, with an alsatian I would always ask first as many have been bred/trained as guard dogs.

[airshifter]

What are you brain dead 150 people dead in 5 yrs and you say Oh bad owners - you need to get a fuking grip and send these dogs to Dr Winchester !!

Bee stings kill more people on average. Ban bees! :laugh:

[Knock-on]

Bee stings kill more people on average. Ban bees! :laugh:

No, just irresponsible Hives ;)

[henners88]

Yes let's kill everything that is potentially dangerous :s tareup: :dozey:

Bee stings kill more people on average. Ban bees! :laugh:
If this is the point this thread has got to, I think I'll add no more. I never called for a ban, just a system that won't allow domestic households to own powerful dogs. If I'm going to have my opinion ignored and manipulated, then I can't see the point in adding anything more. I thought Knock-on's post about how responsible he is with his dog was spot on. He also mentioned he would never trust it unsupervised with young children. That was the point I made earlier but because I haven't admitted to owning a dog of a known dangerous breed, I've been accused of sensationalism. If I had admitted to owning a domesticated tiger that I had raised from a cub, I'm sure I would have been able to share my opinion.

[markabilly]

Not every pit bull that attacks other dogs or the cases where children have been attacked and fatally killed have come from bad owners. You accuse me of ignoring the actions of 'a few' bad owners when you yourself are not considering the alternative. Ask ex NASA astronaut Mark Kelly if he is a bad owner after his pit bull ripped apart a seal on a beach recently? Pit Bulls have the instinct to kill, its what they are bred for which makes them one of the more dangerous dogs to own. Most dog breeds struggle to identify that children are not other animals which is why animal psychologists think children are often mistaken by the dog.

The part in which you quoted me begs the question. Would you seriously trust pit bull around a a small child? Come on now Starter, I can't honestly believe you would answer yes to that question! I know you guys have grown up in a different culture where you fear violence, but this is very different. Even Pit Bull owners sites recommend you don't have them with young families for goodness sake.


This is true of every breed of dogs and cats. Indeed, anything that moves a certain way invokes the hunter/prey/fight reaction that overcomes whatever other training the animal has had. We had a sweet fat cat that was nearly 20 years old, and all it took was some movement that reminded him of prey, and he would pounce real hard and mean.

As in the words of Robert Redford in Out of Africa when the his soon to be lover was confronted by a lion: "don't run, she will think you are something good to eat" :eek:

And this is essentially the problem with large dogs compared to tiny lap dogs...When they attack, be it for play or prey, their attack is far more overpowering and deadly.
If I had to, I might could stop a German Shepherd, as the neck area can be used to bring them down. Children and people who are weaker and do not know how to do it, are just helpless. And even I might not succeed and be left dead or mangled.


But the pit bull's temperment and neck is breed for fighting. Take a good look at the rest of the dog. No chance with that dog. None.


The best approach is to simply act like you are the boss and show no fear. Do not strike, kick or run. Easy to say, but hard to do. And impossible for children and most adults. :(

So with the pit bull, better safe than sorry. German Shepherds are different in that their attack is almost always a form of play and sport, so while dangerous, the danger is not the same.

[Roamy]

This is true of every breed of dogs and cats. Indeed, anything that moves a certain way invokes the hunter/prey/fight reaction that overcomes whatever other training the animal has had. We had a sweet fat cat that was nearly 20 years old, and all it took was some movement that reminded him of prey, and he would pounce real hard and mean.

As in the words of Robert Redford in Out of Africa when the his soon to be lover was confronted by a lion: "don't run, she will think you are something good to eat" :eek:

And this is essentially the problem with large dogs compared to tiny lap dogs...When they attack, be it for play or prey, their attack is far more overpowering and deadly.
If I had to, I might could stop a German Shepherd, as the neck area can be used to bring them down. Children and people who are weaker and do not know how to do it, are just helpless. And even I might not succeed and be left dead or mangled.


But the pit bull's temperment and neck is breed for fighting. Take a good look at the rest of the dog. No chance with that dog. None.


The best approach is to simply act like you are the boss and show no fear. Do not strike, kick or run. Easy to say, but hard to do. And impossible for children and most adults. :(

So with the pit bull, better safe than sorry. German Shepherds are different in that their attack is almost always a form of play and sport, so while dangerous, the danger is not the same.


The best way is to squeeze the trigger and not jerk it due to fear !!!!

[Bezza]

I don’t think the world would be any worse if these dogs didn’t exist, in fact, it would be a little bit safer.

My quite strong personal opinion is all these pitbulls should be destroyed, they provide no positive effect on our lives and only cause harm. They are either bred for money or for danger, or both.

So they should be gradually destroyed, breeding should be illegal and anyone caught doing so should be given a hefty prison sentence.

If this saves the life of just one child, then it will have been worth it.

[airshifter]

If this is the point this thread has got to, I think I'll add no more. I never called for a ban, just a system that won't allow domestic households to own powerful dogs. If I'm going to have my opinion ignored and manipulated, then I can't see the point in adding anything more. I thought Knock-on's post about how responsible he is with his dog was spot on. He also mentioned he would never trust it unsupervised with young children. That was the point I made earlier but because I haven't admitted to owning a dog of a known dangerous breed, I've been accused of sensationalism. If I had admitted to owning a domesticated tiger that I had raised from a cub, I'm sure I would have been able to share my opinion.

Henners for the record I've never ignored or manipulated your points, but part of them I simply can't agree with. What I stated in that quote was in response to someone suggesting the dogs should be killed.

As with Knock-on's example people should be responsible for their situation. If stricter laws were introduced that severely punished owners that were not responsible I would have no problem with it. This applies not only to dogs but a large number of things IMO, and especially in cases where children are put in danger.

With any large dog both the owners (and their children) as well as anyone around the dog should learn to understand the situations that could trigger the dogs aggressive side. And the dog should also be well trained to learn restraint and "pack order". Even then caution should be used when appropriate.

[Starter]

I don’t think the world would be any worse if these dogs didn’t exist, in fact, it would be a little bit safer.

My quite strong personal opinion is all these pitbulls should be destroyed, they provide no positive effect on our lives and only cause harm. They are either bred for money or for danger, or both.

So they should be gradually destroyed, breeding should be illegal and anyone caught doing so should be given a hefty prison sentence.

If this saves the life of just one child, then it will have been worth it.
Since one of the long term dangers to the world is over population, we should breed as many pit bulls as we can to kill lots and lots of children.











That'll get some juicy replys!

[Roamy]

Bee stings kill more people on average. Ban bees! :laugh:

Tell us if you have had a swarm of africkan bees overhead. I have had several including a whole swarm landed in a bush in the front yard. Well I can tell you that Raid would be of no help and when they came while I was playing golf it scared the living sh!t out of me!!

[Roamy]

Since one of the long term dangers to the world is over population, we should breed as many pit bulls as we can to kill lots and lots of children.










That'll get some juicy replys!

sadly we are doing just that ! Plus the more irresponsible the owners are the more likely they will have a pit bull.

[Tazio]

Yes let's kill everything that is potentially dangerous



If this is the point this thread has got to, I think I'll add no more. I never called for a ban, just a system that won't allow domestic households to own powerful dogs. My comment had nothing to do with banning pitbulls, or your comments expressed on this matter. I was responding to the comment that Roamy made:

send these dogs to Dr Winchester !! which is a reference to shooting them with a Winchester firearm.
Sorry you misunderstood that.
I would support any action in this matter decided by a California ballot initiative in and for the county and city of San Diego.

[Roamy]

Careful Alec - In Commiefornia they may pay you to breed them :)

[Tazio]

:s tareup: Not me baby. No freakin' way. I've encountered pitbulls on my jogging course twice. The one I reported was destroyed, and the other I just explained to its dumb-ass owners not to have their dog unleashed when it doesn't respond to their commands. I haven't seen that dog since either. Stray dogs are not tolerated in this part of Ca.

[Roamy]

In many states you just spray them first and if that doesn't work bang bang - should spray the owners too !!

[henners88]

Henners for the record I've never ignored or manipulated your points, but part of them I simply can't agree with. What I stated in that quote was in response to someone suggesting the dogs should be killed.

As with Knock-on's example people should be responsible for their situation. If stricter laws were introduced that severely punished owners that were not responsible I would have no problem with it. This applies not only to dogs but a large number of things IMO, and especially in cases where children are put in danger.

With any large dog both the owners (and their children) as well as anyone around the dog should learn to understand the situations that could trigger the dogs aggressive side. And the dog should also be well trained to learn restraint and "pack order". Even then caution should be used when appropriate.
My original point was not about killing the dogs. I suggested legislation be brought in in the UK where family households should not be allowed to purchase a pit bull, i.e those with young children. If adults want to buy them under license because they are passionate about the breed and are responsible then that's reasonable. They are then ultimately responsible for their pet, so if its then responsible for attacking somebody or a young child, then the law should punish them sternly. Dogs like this are required to wear a muzzle in public anyway I believe. If there are parts to that to which you don't agree with, highlight them. I don't think its unreasonable from my point of view.

Unfortunately you get people in my country who live in a rough area and think by buying a powerful dog, they are upping their security. They train the dog to act aggressive to outsiders and there begins the problem. They allow this dog to be cuddled by their children so they can post adorable photos all over facebook etc, and in some cases it ends nasty. It sounds a little like a stereotype but I know people who have done this and ended up having to get rid of the dog. Those individuals are not responsible owners and are naive to the danger themselves. A guy I worked with bought a Rottweiler puppy shortly before his wife fell pregnant. The pup was gorgeous and I played with it when he brought it in. He's a responsible guy, but at first said he wouldn't get rid of the dog once his child was born. Now the dog has gone unsurprisingly and re-homed with another responsible couple. I think to be responsible (there's that word again) you have to understand the potential risks and weigh up whether you are willing to take them. I'm not suggesting the dog is destroyed, but there are people out there who don't have the common sense needed. Sometimes laws have to be brought in to protect ourselves from our own stupidity. Finding a balance where decent knowledgeable people can own certain breeds is a starting point and not unreasonable IMO.

[gadjo_dilo]

:s tareup: Not me baby. No freakin' way. I've encountered pitbulls on my jogging course twice. The one I reported was destroyed, and the other I just explained to its dumb-ass owners not to have their dog unleashed when it doesn't respond to their commands. I haven't seen that dog since either. Stray dogs are not tolerated in this part of Ca.

I'll send good old Brigitte Bardot to teach you a lesson. :arrows:

[Tazio]

:s tareup: Thanks Gadji, where were you about 40 years ago when I'd have encourage her to put a dog collar on me. ;)
Longue vie à son butin magnifique petit :love:

Or just send Nadia ;)

[gadjo_dilo]

Or just send Nadia ;)

That's easier than you might think. All you have to do is to pay her a visit in Oklahoma City.
Haven't figured you're interested in women who are over 50 but " de gustibus...." :devil:

[Tazio]

Haven't figured you're interested in women who are over 50 but " ...."
That makes her several years younger than me, so why not?

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/347599913/Nadiapic.jpg

de gustibus.......IYHO gurl :dozey: :p :
At any rate I shouldn't covet my neighbors wife.

[gadjo_dilo]

That makes her several years younger than me, so why not?

Because when you have fantasies it's more exciting to choose one that seems inaccessible :cheese:

[Tazio]

it's more exciting to choose one that seems inaccessible Or the ones that are ultra flexable :champion:

[Roamy]

That makes her several years younger than me, so why not?

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/347599913/Nadiapic.jpg

de gustibus.......IYHO gurl :dozey: :p :
At any rate I shouldn't covet my neighbors wife.

Send me in Coach - I am ready to play !!

[gadjo_dilo]

Send me in Coach - I am ready to play !!
Special offer just for you:
Pitbull & Nadia - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyQuNTbm5w)
:devil:

[Tazio]

Special offer just for you:
Pitbull & Nadia - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqyQuNTbm5w)
:devil: Different Nadia but I could see myself biting down on her and not letting go :eek: ;)


Send me in Coach - I am ready to play !!
That's the good ol' American "can do" attitude!

[gadjo_dilo]

Different Nadia but I could see myself biting down on her and not letting go :eek:
But first you'd have again to report a Pitbull. :laugh:

[Tazio]

But first you'd have again to report a Pitbull. :laugh:
.....and maybe afterwards as well, although I would probably plead "The Fifth" ;)

[gadjo_dilo]

Wrong

[gadjo_dilo]

de gustibus.......IYHO gurl :dozey: :p :
At any rate I shouldn't covet my neighbors wife.

And you keep saying that Markabilly is your friend.....

[Starter]

Mr Alca-Tazizzle (http://www.motorsportforums.com/members/mr-alca-tazizzle-92901/) http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png& gadjo_dilo (http://www.motorsportforums.com/members/gadjo_dilo-87899/) http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/statusicon/user-offline.png

You two need to get a room. :D :D

[gadjo_dilo]

As far as I'm concerned all I need is to trash a room....

[airshifter]

My original point was not about killing the dogs. I suggested legislation be brought in in the UK where family households should not be allowed to purchase a pit bull, i.e those with young children. If adults want to buy them under license because they are passionate about the breed and are responsible then that's reasonable. They are then ultimately responsible for their pet, so if its then responsible for attacking somebody or a young child, then the law should punish them sternly. Dogs like this are required to wear a muzzle in public anyway I believe. If there are parts to that to which you don't agree with, highlight them. I don't think its unreasonable from my point of view.

Unfortunately you get people in my country who live in a rough area and think by buying a powerful dog, they are upping their security. They train the dog to act aggressive to outsiders and there begins the problem. They allow this dog to be cuddled by their children so they can post adorable photos all over facebook etc, and in some cases it ends nasty. It sounds a little like a stereotype but I know people who have done this and ended up having to get rid of the dog. Those individuals are not responsible owners and are naive to the danger themselves. A guy I worked with bought a Rottweiler puppy shortly before his wife fell pregnant. The pup was gorgeous and I played with it when he brought it in. He's a responsible guy, but at first said he wouldn't get rid of the dog once his child was born. Now the dog has gone unsurprisingly and re-homed with another responsible couple. I think to be responsible (there's that word again) you have to understand the potential risks and weigh up whether you are willing to take them. I'm not suggesting the dog is destroyed, but there are people out there who don't have the common sense needed. Sometimes laws have to be brought in to protect ourselves from our own stupidity. Finding a balance where decent knowledgeable people can own certain breeds is a starting point and not unreasonable IMO.

The only part I would agree with is requiring a special license for those breeds, and/or preventing people with children from owning them. Simply make tough laws concerning responsible pet ownership and enforce them IMO. I agree with your other points, but my point is that those laws to "protect us from ourselves" really only protect stupid owners from themselves. In an above example Knock-on gave, he apparently doesn't need such laws to protect him from himself.

[Starter]

A story in today's Washington Post, "Dog attack in Charles County leaves child critically injured." A 5 year old girl was in critical condition after an attack by two dogs. Pit bulls? No, it was a Bulldog and a Presa Canario. The child had gone into a fenced back yard and it was unclear whether the dogs were loose or if she had opened an enclosed kennel and released them.

But what the heck, let's just ban the Pit bulls anyway, just on principle.

[markabilly]

Careful Alec - In Commiefornia they may pay you to breed them :)

How much?

Oh well, it does not matter. :dozey:


Mr. Alca has assured me that he does not breed with dogs for the same reason I do not. They are just too small. However, I am sure they are plenty out there in Commiefornia and even in Great Brittainy that do not have that problem and are quite busy... :cool:

[BleAivano]

A story in today's Washington Post, "Dog attack in Charles County leaves child critically injured." A 5 year old girl was in critical condition after an attack by two dogs. Pit bulls? No, it was a Bulldog and a Presa Canario. The child had gone into a fenced back yard and it was unclear whether the dogs were loose or if she had opened an enclosed kennel and released them.

But what the heck, let's just ban the Pit bulls anyway, just on principle.

Among other breeds both pitbulls and Presa Canario would fall under the dog category that we in Sweden
call "kamphund" (game/fighting dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_%28dog%29)). Dogs with similar characteristics and purposes.

[Starter]

Among other breeds both pitbulls and Presa Canario would fall under the dog category that we in Sweden
call "kamphund" (game/fighting dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_%28dog%29)). Dogs with similar characteristics and purposes.
Game dogs? I guess all those terriers, retrievers, setters, pointers, etc. have to go now too. Oh well, maybe we can keep stuffed animals as pets instead. Until some two or three year old kid chokes or smothers with one, then we'll ban them too. I guess no one has noticed that life is hazardous and people of all ages die or get injured from an amazing variety of causes.

[henners88]

I can't believe you are still trying to justify that any breed of fighting dog is fine around children. Any breed of dog that is bred for hunting is going to be a risky pet with small children, but again not all these breeds are as powerful as a bloody pit bill. They don't have the muscle mass and aggression that a pit bill can deliver. Most setters and pointers don't have the strength to shake and keep a bite on its prey for any period of time. I've never seen footage of a setter or pointer that's had to have its head smashed in with a shovel because it refuses to let go like a pit bull. Having animals like this around children is like having a loaded gun in your house and is deeply irresponsible IMO. They don't have to banned, but controlled to make sure the right type of people are buying them. You keep ignoring that statement and adding your own twist to make out anybody who disagrees with you wants an outright ban. That's not the case.

[donKey jote]

Having animals like this around children is like having a loaded gun in your house and is deeply irresponsible IMO.
"dogs don't kill people, their owners do" ? :p

[BleAivano]

Game dogs? I guess all those terriers, retrievers, setters, pointers, etc. have to go now too. Oh well, maybe we can keep stuffed animals as pets instead. Until some two or three year old kid chokes or smothers with one, then we'll ban them too. I guess no one has noticed that life is hazardous and people of all ages die or get injured from an amazing variety of causes.

You say it was not a pit bull who had committed the attack.

I say that Pit bull terrier and Presa Canario are similar type of dogs,dogs that was breed to full fill one purpose and that purpose
is to fight other dogs of the same type. I don't think those are suitable pets.

Just like venomous snakes and larger constrictor snakes are unsuitable as pets.

That said, I agree with henners, a ban would probably not work since there would be too many shady people
who wouldn't give a sh*it about bans or the legibility of such fighting dogs.

[airshifter]

I can't believe you are still trying to justify that any breed of fighting dog is fine around children. Any breed of dog that is bred for hunting is going to be a risky pet with small children, but again not all these breeds are as powerful as a bloody pit bill. They don't have the muscle mass and aggression that a pit bill can deliver. Most setters and pointers don't have the strength to shake and keep a bite on its prey for any period of time. I've never seen footage of a setter or pointer that's had to have its head smashed in with a shovel because it refuses to let go like a pit bull. Having animals like this around children is like having a loaded gun in your house and is deeply irresponsible IMO. They don't have to banned, but controlled to make sure the right type of people are buying them. You keep ignoring that statement and adding your own twist to make out anybody who disagrees with you wants an outright ban. That's not the case.

I just can't wrap my head around this kind of thinking. Pound for pound any dog other than the most lazy breeds will easily defeat most children and many adults if it "snaps". I would say pound for pound most breeds would have a 4 or 3 to 1 advantage when it comes to a real "fight". If you don't think this is true, picture a really angry dog of any breed that is 1/3 your weight, very angry and attacking you, and you have no weapons other than your body to defend with. I know I don't want a 65 lb ANYTHING that evolved from wolves angry and attacking me... and I'm really glad Chihuahuas can't get that large!

From a perspective of child safety, even a very mellow calm breed could be dangerous to a child if not properly supervised by a responsible adult. We had a neighbor with a border collie, and the dog would "herd" the young children. If was very entertaining to watch as the kids never figured it out. In this case the dog tended to keep them in the yard... why I don't know. But if the dog "herded" them into the street in the same way it could have influenced the children to leave the yard and go play in a street with vehicle traffic.

I still say that the onus of safety must be on the adult, regardless of breeds.

[BDunnell]

Pound for pound any dog other than the most lazy breeds will easily defeat most children and many adults if it "snaps".

This is precisely why, as stated earlier, I detest all dogs and would be in favour of banning every breed if given an entirely free choice, though I realise that this must remain a fantasy.

[donKey jote]

I'd ban every irresponsible owner, and that goes for the ones who don't pick up the poops too :mark:

[pino]

I'd ban every irresponsible owner, and that goes for the ones who don't pick up the poops too :mark:

:up:

Giá t?t b?n hi?n. r?nh ph? mình ch? ký nha. thanks!

[Garry Walker]

This is precisely why, as stated earlier, I detest all dogs and would be in favour of banning every breed if given an entirely free choice, though I realise that this must remain a fantasy.

Aren't you pro choice.

I am no big fan of dogs, but I have two myself. I have loads of garden space, so they run free, but they cannot get out of the garden. If they go out, then only with me holding the leash.
Generally, I think the really dangerous ones like pitbulls really should have no place in homes.
The problem with big and dangerous dogs is that their owners are very often just stupid. They will allow their dogs run free without any leash and think, oh my precious is a good dog, he will do nothing to anyone. I used to have quite a bit of problem with some neighbours dogs, in fact I had to make it clear to them that if I ever see the dogs free again near my place, I will shoot them between the eyes at once. I didn't have much option when you had idiots letting their rotweilers and dobermans run free and run and attack children and other pets. My threat worked, but if they hadn't changed their behaviour, I would have shot those dogs without any problems.

[BDunnell]

Aren't you pro choice.

Yes. I wasn't actually being serious about banning all dogs, you know. I was merely expressing the view that, personally, I don't like them.

[Knock-on]

I was having a look around at the most aggressive dogs in the UK and uncovered this:

1.Dachshunds
2.Chihuahua
3.Jack Russell
4.Australian Cattle Dog
5.Cocker Spaniel
6.Beagle
7.Border Collie
8.Pit Bull Terrier
9.Great Dane
10.English Springer Spaniel

Dangerous Dog Breeds | Dog Bite Claims (http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html)

Good thing a Sausage dog isn't bigger but I bet it can still make a nasty mess of a Toddler ;)

[Starter]

I was having a look around at the most aggressive dogs in the UK and uncovered this:

1.Dachshunds
2.Chihuahua
3.Jack Russell
4.Australian Cattle Dog
5.Cocker Spaniel
6.Beagle
7.Border Collie
8.Pit Bull Terrier
9.Great Dane
10.English Springer Spaniel

Dangerous Dog Breeds | Dog Bite Claims (http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html)

Good thing a Sausage dog isn't bigger but I bet it can still make a nasty mess of a Toddler ;)
Please don't interrupt this thread with facts. :D

[henners88]

It depends what list you look at. There are those that look at aggression within the breed and those that look at the amount of reported attacks. The Pit Bull is resposible for 66 fatalities in the UK since 1990. The Rottweiler 39, German Shepherd 17, Malamute 12 etc etc. The Great Dane and St Bernard are also listed in the top ten for attacks which would surprise some I'm sure.

All dogs can be aggressive and all dogs bite. Our Boarder Collie would snarl at other dogs and would nip occasionally but would soon back down if you took the dominant tone. I can't think of an example where she was aggressive with a human being, but would often be confrontational on walks with other dogs and that is when you had to show your authority over her. We never trusted her around alone with small children in our family as she tended to try and herd them by pushing them with her nose and nipping their hands. Instinct I say, but pit bull owners would argue that is something to do with the owner I'm sure.

My point here has never been to single out the Pit Bull and suggest its the only bloody dog on the planet responsible for attacking people and causing death. My point was always the power of the animal and the difficulty in controlling them due to their muscle mass and strength should something go wrong. I've grown up around dogs my whole life and have experience splitting up dogs that try to fight each other, but there are certain breeds I either wouldn't attempt to get involved with or simply wouldn't have the strength to.

https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

[Knock-on]

I'm with you fella and made the point that although small breeds quite often are more aggressive, they don't represent the same danger as they can only maime and not kill.

I've lost count of the number of rats on stilts that have tried to nip and attack my German when we've been out for a walk. I'm lucky that he's such a woofter and shy's away but the owners seem to think it's funny that their little diddums attacks a big dog. It gets me quite angry.

[henners88]

Yeah I've seen quite a few instances where smaller dogs attack much larger dogs. I suppose its 'small man syndrome' but in a different species lol.

Its also worth noting that Pit Bull's are responsible for the most fatalities in the UK yet have been banned here since 1991. The real problem is the fact these dogs are still obtainable in society IMO. A German Shepard may be feared largely but are well known as quite a placid dog by nature. I was chased as a child by three after I broke through the fence of an industrial estate and dare say I would have been attacked had I not got back up the fence in time lol. I've always had good experiences with them other than that and there is a reason why they are not banned. As I say any dog can be dangerous but some are deemed more dangerous than others and injury stats tend to back that up. we have thousands of incidents every year where children have been mauled by dogs of all breeds. Its rare they are fatal of course and the dangerous dog act goes some way to help with that, although examples given here and elsewhere show its not been full proof since its introduction.

[D-Type]

I was having a look around at the most aggressive dogs in the UK and uncovered this:

1.Dachshunds
2.Chihuahua
3.Jack Russell
4.Australian Cattle Dog
5.Cocker Spaniel
6.Beagle
7.Border Collie
8.Pit Bull Terrier
9.Great Dane
10.English Springer Spaniel

Dangerous Dog Breeds | Dog Bite Claims (http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html)

Good thing a Sausage dog isn't bigger but I bet it can still make a nasty mess of a Toddler ;)

Interesting - generally the larger dogs have had the aggression bred out of them but not the smaller dogs. Simply because they'd be potential killers otherwise. But you can't breed it out completely.

If a dachshund or chihuahu attacked me I know who I'd back to win the resulting fight; likewise if aa great dane or pit bull attacked me, I'd also know - but it wouldn't be me.

On the point made in the last post, I don't think a dog's intelligence is sufficiently well-developed to recognise size. A dachshund attacking a great dane simply doesn't know it's smaller - it simply 'sees' another dog like itself.

[BleAivano]

I was having a look around at the most aggressive dogs in the UK and uncovered this:

1.Dachshunds
2.Chihuahua
3.Jack Russell
4.Australian Cattle Dog
5.Cocker Spaniel
6.Beagle
7.Border Collie
8.Pit Bull Terrier
9.Great Dane
10.English Springer Spaniel

Dangerous Dog Breeds | Dog Bite Claims (http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html)

Good thing a Sausage dog isn't bigger but I bet it can still make a nasty mess of a Toddler ;)

How many dogs of each of these breed are there in the UK? And How many attacks in relation to amount of dogs of each these breeds?

[Knock-on]

How many dogs of each of these breed are there in the UK? And How many attacks in relation to amount of dogs of each these breeds?

I've no idea. The survey was conducted on 6000 dogs so just gives an idea. I was surprised at the lack of real data out there and even the NHS statistics mix Dog attacks with injuries sustained with a dog i.e. If you trip over a dog or swerve your car into a crash to avoid a dog. Not very meaningfull when looking at how aggressive dogs are.

[Knock-on]

So, should Pit Bulls be banned?

This is quite fun and proves a point.

findpitbull_v4 (http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html)

Play the game and see if you can identify which dog is dangerous and should be destroyed.

[airshifter]

I just saw this article, very scary!

Beaver kills man: Fisherman bitten to death by beaver after taking photo - Chicago Top News | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/beaver-kills-man-fisherman-bitten-to-death-by-beaver-after-taking-photo)

Now I would venture to say that since most on the forum have been determined to be non homophobic but primarily straight men, that very few would even remotely suggest we ban beaver.

But taking photos of beavers can kill you! :)

[BleAivano]

I just saw this article, very scary!

Beaver kills man: Fisherman bitten to death by beaver after taking photo - Chicago Top News | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/beaver-kills-man-fisherman-bitten-to-death-by-beaver-after-taking-photo)

Now I would venture to say that since most on the forum have been determined to be non homophobic but primarily straight men,
that very few would even remotely suggest we ban beaver.

But taking photos of beavers can kill you! :)

Beavers are wild animals and not pets. I can't really see what this has do with pitbulls?
You can't ban all wild animals in the world but you can ban unsuitable pets.

[Starter]

Beavers are wild animals and not pets. I can't really see what this has do with pitbulls?
You can't ban all wild animals in the world but you can ban unsuitable pets.
You can't ban ANYTHING so long as someone wants it bad enough. Something the bleeding hearts and leftys of the world have yet to learn, in spite of repeated lessons.

[Firstgear]

Beavers are wild animals and not pets. I can't really see what this has do with pitbulls?
You can't ban all wild animals in the world but you can ban unsuitable pets.
airshifter's comment was meant as a joke.
Beaver is not only the name of a large rodent, but also slang or the nickname for a certain part of the female anatomy. You can figure out the rest. ;)

[Knock-on]

I just saw this article, very scary!

Beaver kills man: Fisherman bitten to death by beaver after taking photo - Chicago Top News | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/beaver-kills-man-fisherman-bitten-to-death-by-beaver-after-taking-photo)

Now I would venture to say that since most on the forum have been determined to be non homophobic but primarily straight men, that very few would even remotely suggest we ban beaver.

But taking photos of beavers can kill you! :)

Just for you Airshifter ;)

http://i.qkme.me/3t1z58.jpg

[Lee23]

I think that they are aggressive dogs by nature but its down to the owner not the dog, everyone should know how to look after the dog properly. And when they use them for fighting then that just makes the whole thing worse!

[donKey jote]

If only this poor woman had had a gun :( :dozey:
BBC News - Pit bull terriers 'killed' Los Angeles jogger - police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22478913)

[henners88]

If only this poor woman had had a gun :( :dozey:
BBC News - Pit bull terriers 'killed' Los Angeles jogger - police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22478913)
The likely hood is if she had pulled a gun, the dogs would have been carrying them too anyway. Tragic stuff. :(

[markabilly]

If only this poor woman had had a gun :( :dozey:
BBC News - Pit bull terriers 'killed' Los Angeles jogger - police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22478913)

The beloved Rick Perry, the texan guverner (that i so badly wanted to win the presidency, cause then he would move to washington and sell the capital to the Spanish instead of parts of Texas) had a similar experience with a mean Miniature Schnauzer.

Shot him dead before he could bite.

of course, his press corp had it changed to coyote, cause it sounded tougher in the news. Of course, there aint that much diffference between the two, except coyotes are generally a little bit larger, more cowardly and run off at the first sign of humans

Texas Gov. Perry fatally shoots coyote (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/27/AR2010042705323.html)

[Roamy]

Hey marky get your sh!t together before posting


Coyotes are one of the most widespread animals in America. There is an average of 5 attacks a day & about 5 fatalities a year not including dogs. It is a powerful animal that can easily take out a full grown man in a pack. This is what you do if you don't have a gun.

[Roamy]

If only this poor woman had had a gun :( :dozey:
BBC News - Pit bull terriers 'killed' Los Angeles jogger - police (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22478913)

yes a good glock on a tether so it could not get knocked away by the attacking pit bull. But hell Gov Brown he don't give a sh!t another one off social security and medicare. Well Brown probably wouldn't care if it were his own mother. Pitbulls are a very important part of society.

[Roamy]

I was having a look around at the most aggressive dogs in the UK and uncovered this:

1.Dachshunds
2.Chihuahua
3.Jack Russell
4.Australian Cattle Dog
5.Cocker Spaniel
6.Beagle
7.Border Collie
8.Pit Bull Terrier
9.Great Dane
10.English Springer Spaniel

Dangerous Dog Breeds | Dog Bite Claims (http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html)

Good thing a Sausage dog isn't bigger but I bet it can still make a nasty mess of a Toddler ;)

so on this dangerous list - how many of the breeds have a history of killing humans. ?????