Will LH leave McLaren? (ans: yes) [Archive]

mstillhere

3rd June 2012, 02:35

I see you guys are very interested in talking about the two Ferrari drivers. (Should I include MS as a Ferrari driver?).

I think there is at least another driver who would deserve some attention as well. How about LH and his relationship with McLaren?

The telegraph posted an interisting artilce about the situation: Lewis Hamilton may leave McLaren says Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/9102007/Lewis-Hamilton-may-leave-McLaren-says-Formula-One-supremo-Bernie-Ecclestone.html).

What I liked about this article is that actually is a two way situation not one as one may think.

IMO I think LH got upset last year with McLaren. He was given a car that was not a winner. That situation must have driven him crazy. At that time he must have said to himself: "I'll give them (McLaren) one more chance".

Well, as you know, this year McLaren actually got worse than last year.

Race after race Lewis is unable to win they way he would like to and should. The garage keeps in messing him up time and time again and, from a design perspective, was really a good idea not to change the nose of the car like the other teams? Is really just the tires fault??

I think, if he were to leave McLaren, nobody could blame him at all. I know I wouldn't. And............no, I wouldn't like to see him in Ferrari either.

I know Whitmarsh is saying that Lewis may not stay if he does not show some results this year but I think he knows in his heart that it's not Lewis's fault. It's MacLaren's and in part the garage's as well.

TheFamousEccles

3rd June 2012, 02:46

It would be interesting if Lulu does leave McLaren, I think he may find that the grass is not necessarily greener...

He's a fantastic driver, but IMO he hasn't experienced what it is like to actually struggle with a car/team that isnt set up around his preferences, and should he move to another (for arguments sake - Ferrari, the political intrigue capital of motorsport) I think he may well regret it.

anyway, we shall see.

ShiftingGears

3rd June 2012, 06:37

Koz

3rd June 2012, 06:41

IMO I think LH got upset last year with McLaren. He was given a car that was not a winner. That situation must have driven him crazy. At that time he must have said to himself: "I'll give them (McLaren) one more chance".
Which team can guarantee dominance??
He won a few races last year.

Well, as you know, this year McLaren actually got worse than last year.
Based on what?
6 races and 6 winners. What more do you want?
The car has won races, excluding Monaco it has always been on the first row...
And he is two wins away from leading the c'ship...

Race after race Lewis is unable to win they way he would like to and should.
Well, I'm not winning Lotto as I would like and as I should.

The garage keeps in messing him up time and time again and, from a design perspective, was really a good idea not to change the nose of the car like the other teams? Is really just the tires fault??
...

I think, if he were to leave McLaren, nobody could blame him at all. I know I wouldn't. And............no, I wouldn't like to see him in Ferrari either.
So what options are open exactly? And what makes you think anything will be different in another team?
Do you think Lotus, Merc or Williams would provide better results?

I know Whitmarsh is saying that Lewis may not stay if he does not show some results this year but I think he knows in his heart that it's not Lewis's fault. It's MacLaren's and in part the garage's as well.
Oh yeah, and who would he hire instead?

Get real, bro.

jens

3rd June 2012, 07:27

In another thread it was asked whether Whitmarsh should be sacked. I think the conclusion was "no", because McLaren was still doing well despite not winning championships. Same is the answer for Hamilton. In an ideal world he would like to win championships and many of them. But realistically McLaren is still a very good career option for Lewis. Red Bull has been winning championships recently, but McLaren is very close in performance and RBR is beatable for them. So Hamilton may just as well stay put and hope for a tide to turn. Ferrari hasn't been doing any better than McLaren recently.

Mercedes is interesting, consists of talented people and is showing promise, but... they have not proven themselves (while McLaren is criticized for not winning titles, Merc hasn't finished even in Top3 of WCC) and their long-term commitment to the sport remains in question. Regarding silly season in general. I assume that Mercedes would at least attempt to lure Hamilton. But for Hamilton McLaren may still seem a better option. Mercedes' only hope is if they can really impress during the rest of the season and genuinely fight for the championship... and win it.

McLaren is and has been in a much better shape than in mid-90's for instance. Back then there were rumours about Häkkinen getting fed up of constant midfield cars and looking around, but in the end he stayed put. Hamilton hasn't really much to complain about compared to that. Schumacher was losing title after title in late 90's, but he wasn't going to leave Ferrari. I think McLaren's situation in terms of competitiveness is comparable to Ferrari in late 90's - contender, but not quite a champion. But it takes only a little step to make it.

Zico

3rd June 2012, 09:52

If Lewis does move team, I'd say Red Bull would probably be his most atractive option mainly due to Newey's design/engineering brilliance at producing great cars. I'd imagine a Hamilton and Vettel driver line up would be the pairing most of the fans would like to see but would such a line up really be desirable from Red Bulls POV?

Staying with McLaren is the safe and most sensible option and I'll be surprised if he moves team.. but if he does, I'd absolutely love to see the No1 driver battle being fought out with Vettel at Red Bull.

jens

3rd June 2012, 10:14

He is frustrated by the mistakes this season, but to put this in perspective...

If a frustrating season meant only being 13 points off the lead after six races in a car that is pretty evenly matched by its competitors, you could do a lot worse.

Well said. I think Hamilton could ask Schumacher, what does a frustrating season really mean. :)

Also it could be asked whether Vettel should have got frustrated with Red Bull in 2010 and left the team after suffering loads of car problems.

Zico

3rd June 2012, 10:20

Andrew Benson wrote an article in his blog last week on the subject of whether Lewis should leave McLaren and explores his various options..

BBC - Andrew Benson: Speculation starts early over Hamilton's future (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2012/05/will_hamilton_stay_at_mclaren.html)

N. Jones

3rd June 2012, 11:24

djparky

3rd June 2012, 15:55

where would he go? Ferrari is a no- Alonso would never allow it- RBR- well possibly I guess- but if Webber were to leave either Riccardo or JEV could step up to the senior team. And could RBR manage Vettel and LH in the same team..... this years car is competiticve- they've made some silly mistakes in the races. I really don't see where else he could go other than maybe Mercedes assuming Schumi goes at the end of the year

mstillhere

3rd June 2012, 18:20

The difference in IMO is that MS has nothing to prove. LH, and that's my guess, still is at the beginning of his career and has a lot to prove.

mstillhere

3rd June 2012, 18:33

Obviously nobody better than LH knows what is really happening at McLaren and if LH has not signed the new contract that's for a reason. McLaren has lost in the last few months technical personnel taht could have proven pivotal for the car's developpment. On top of that McLAren may have some financial issues as well. Mercedes is not paying anymore part of LH salary and soon enough McALren would have to start engine shopping as well.

So, to me the picture of McLaren's future seems to be a little blurry. especially when you see Ferrari and Mercedes getting better and better and RB is till there. Now we can say what we want but again LH has a very clear picture of what's going on with his team.

In terms of who could Whitmarsh hire I think there are a number of good drivers out there who if given a chance could surprise quite few of us. See Perez, Di Resta etc.

N4D13

3rd June 2012, 20:25

Considering that McLaren has consistently managed to produce a top car over the last few seasons, I don't think it would be a great idea for Hamilton to leave McLaren. The only option I'd consider in his place is Red Bull, and you'd have to wonder whether it would really make sense to leave McL for RBR. There's no answer as to whether Red Bull can keep up with their 2010 and 2011 form or if they'll sink in a couple of years, while McLaren has proven that it has what it takes to be a frontrunner year after year. And seeing how the other teams have fared over the last few years -specially Ferrari and Mercedes-, I don't see any reason for Hamilton to look for a drive in them.

Mark

3rd June 2012, 20:36

The only way that Hamilton would go to RBR is if Vettel left. So we really need to be discussing if Vettel will leave Red
Bull first and if so where he would go.

Mark

3rd June 2012, 21:05

It was pointed out above they are due to lose Mercedes engines at some point. Although I think it was something like a 5 year deal when the Merc works team was set up in 2010.

Of course anything can happen.

zako85

3rd June 2012, 23:32

That McLaren will lose Mercedes engines has always been an improbability to me. Why McLaren and not Force India? Who will be the flagship Mercedes team if McLaren does not get the Mercedes engine? I think the rumor started circulating when Mercedes bought Brawn GP and sold its ownership share of McLaren. However, with the existence of Mercedes AMG team hanging by the thread right now, I doubt Mercedes will part ways with the best Mercedes-powered team unless Mercedes decides to pull out of F1 completely.

Hawkmoon

4th June 2012, 01:33

Perhaps it's a question of whether Hamilton is happy at McLaren. People are focussed on whether McLaren is the best option in terms of car performance, and I agree that it is, but if Hamilton isn't happy he may look elsewhere regardless of performance.

Hamilton hasn't been the happiest of drivers over the past couple of years. He's been short with the media, his driving has been up and down and he's quick to criticise the team over the radio when something goes wrong. If you're not happy at work it's hard to give it everything you have.

I think Hamilton will stay with McLaren because Ferrari and Red Bull aren't feasible options and Mercedes and Lotus have big question marks surrounding them. Whatever his decision I think it will be based on more than just car performance.

gloomyDAY

4th June 2012, 01:54

mstillhere

4th June 2012, 05:47

McLaren are acting like a bunch of fumbling fools. Mercedes and Co. seem to have their heads on straight. They will sign the Concorde Agreement as well, so I'm not too worried over that row. I think Ross Brawn and Lewis would get along very well and provide some championships for the Silver Arrow.

My prediction: Mercedes.

That would be my guess as well unless.................Vettel goes to Ferrari replacing Massa. Can you imagine? Although Vettel has said recently that he has not contract with Ferrari I think it is plausible to see Alonso and Vettel together. .

F1boat

4th June 2012, 15:16

McLaren are acting like a bunch of fumbling fools. Mercedes and Co. seem to have their heads on straight.

Really? Michael can only dream for the season that Lewis is having. 4 mistakes or issues with his car out of six races. Much worse than what Lewis has in McLaren.

Zico

5th June 2012, 00:09

I think it is plausible to see Alonso and Vettel together. .

Not if Vettel has half a brain it isn't.. Ferraris acute bias towards their number one drivers is well documented. Yes I think Ferrari would have him in place of Fellipe in a heartbeat but do you really think he'd want to be Alonsos bitch? I think Mark going to Ferrari is more plausible.

Hawkmoon

5th June 2012, 08:24

Not if Vettel has half a brain it isn't.. Ferraris acute bias towards their number one drivers is well documented. Yes I think Ferrari would have him in place of Fellipe in a heartbeat but do you really think he'd want to be Alonsos bitch? I think Mark going to Ferrari is more plausible.

Ferrari only favour one driver when there's a clear disparity between the two. Schumacher and Alonso were designated as number one because Irvine, Barrichello and Massa weren't going to deliver the championship. When Raikkonen and Massa were teammates Ferrari didn't have a number 1 and favoured each driver as the situation demanded. If Vettel were to partner Alonso I think Ferrari would let them determine who's the number 1 rather than designate Alonso that way from the start.

That said, I can't see Vettel at Ferrari while Alonso is there. Ferrari simply don't need two world class drivers. One world class driver and one very good driver works better which is why Webber is a much more likely proposition than Vettel or Hamilton.

F1boat

5th June 2012, 09:19

One world class driver and one very good driver works better

I think so too. This is the best possible formula.

Zico

5th June 2012, 09:29

Ferrari only favour one driver when there's a clear disparity between the two. Schumacher and Alonso were designated as number one because Irvine, Barrichello and Massa weren't going to deliver the championship. When Raikkonen and Massa were teammates Ferrari didn't have a number 1 and favoured each driver as the situation demanded. If Vettel were to partner Alonso I think Ferrari would let them determine who's the number 1 rather than designate Alonso that way from the start.

That said, I can't see Vettel at Ferrari while Alonso is there. Ferrari simply don't need two world class drivers. One world class driver and one very good driver works better which is why Webber is a much more likely proposition than Vettel or Hamilton.

Thats actually a fair point, the Kimi and Fellipe lineup had escaped my mind. I'd always considered Kimi to be the far stronger of the two yet they didn't really take him to heart at Ferrari did they? Maybe Kimi's laid back personality was perceived as a lack of passion or lack of motivation and I cant imagine that mixing well with the passionate Italian psyche.
You could be right but if I was Vettel (or even any of the other top tier drivers) I dont think I'd want to take that risk.

Mark is moving into the twilight of his carreer now and if he isn't offered a new contract at Red Bull then yep.. I could see that happening.

I think so too. This is the best possible formula.

Agreed..

F1boat

5th June 2012, 09:33

Thats actually a fair point, the Kimi and Fellipe lineup had escaped my mind. I'd always considered Kimi to be the far stronger of the two yet they didn't really take him to heart at Ferrari did they? Maybe Kimi's laid back personality was perceived as a lack of passion or lack of motivation and I cant imagine that mixing well with the passionate Italian psyche.

I think that simply Massa had the time of his life in these years. Kimi on the contrary didn't look as strong as in 2005 McLaren, but in 2006 he wasn't outstanding either.

Malbec

5th June 2012, 13:31

fandango

5th June 2012, 18:50

I don't see Schumacher going on for much longer, so Mercedes will have an empty seat and a bag of cash. Rosberg is not very inspiring as an out-and-out number 1 driver. He's good, and fast, but he's just, well, good and fast. Hamilton does things in a car that even people who think he's a right eejit (like me) are amazed at.

At McLaren, Hamilton is getting the best possible treatment. He knows that, or he should. If he's not getting the best, he should leave, no argument there. If he is getting the best, and he's not leading the championship in two or three races, then that's the best they can do, so he should try Mercedes, Ross Brawn and the bag of cash.

If he goes to Mercedes, he should only go for an enormous salary, to ensure that the focus of the team is on making their investment work.

All the other top teams have too many reasons why it wouldn't work out.

So if Mercedes don't win this weekend in Canada, they'll be talking to Hamilton's management team.

McLaren would probably welcome him back if it didn't work out. So what's he got to lose?

mstillhere

5th June 2012, 22:03

Why would Lewis want to change teams? McLaren have been within the top 3 consistently for the past decade or so. RBR has only been quick for 3 seasons, Mercedes only sporadically (as Brawn/Honda) over the years, Ferrari has been wobbly. RBR and Mercedes might be quicker than McLaren over the short term but playing the long game who knows, in five/ten years Mercedes and RBR may not see the point of owning their own teams anymore and may not even exist whereas McLaren will most likely continue to be highly competitive. It doesn't make sense.

Well, maybe because LH does not like to be in the top 3? I am sure he'll like to be number one and he does not see thta happening at McLaren anymore. The fact that McLaren has been on the top 3 is not necessarely reflecting their future, as I wrote earlier. And what seems to be the biggest indicator about LH's mixed feelings about his future at McLaren is the fact that he has not signed yet the "principesque" new contract offering him 60,000,000 mil contract (McLaren will offer Lewis Hamilton new £60m contract extension to remain with Woking marque | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2149534/McLaren-offer-Lewis-Hamilton-new-60m-contract-extension-remain-Woking-marque.html)). What I also find interesting in this article is the following: "While McLaren are eager to get discussions under way, Hamilton’s management are understandably biding their time, given there could yet be opportunities at Mercedes, Red Bull and even Ferrari next season". "Understandably" is the word that caught my attention. Of course I would love to know exactley why thay are saying that, although the "why" could have been said earlier on.

GravettFan99

5th June 2012, 22:25

All this talk of him leaving... I don't know how true it is but I think that right now it is his best place. Red Bull and Ferrari both believe in #1 drivers and I doubt he would be that if he went to either.

On the other hand, if he went to Mercedes after Michael leaves, that could be a great fit for him.

I too think that it would be quite realistic to see him in a Mercedes, knowing that the very same one supplied engines for McLaren.
Him in a Red Bull with Vettel, however-I would think that Hamilton likes having the #1 spot in the team, so seeing him in a Red Bull might cause a bit of a fuss and inter-team rivalry. (If so, though, then we might as well brace ourselves for the modern-day Senna and Prost. :D )

Knock-on

6th June 2012, 00:31

I still think Paul will be at Mercedes. He's paid next to nothing at FI (£150k) and would be a cheap replacement for the Shoe.

McLaren will continue with Lewis but will Mark end up at Ferrari? Possible? Vettel wont because Alonso will murder him.

6 races in and the silly season's in full swing. Is this a forum record?

mstillhere

6th June 2012, 04:27

TheFamousEccles

6th June 2012, 08:20

I would be completly surprised to see a mediocre driver replacing another one at Ferrari. What would Ferrari do that?

"Mediocre"? C'mon!

me·di·o·cre [mee-dee-oh-ker]
adjective 1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate: The car gets only mediocre mileage, but it's fun to drive. Synonyms: undistinguished, commonplace, pedestrian, everyday; run-of-the-mill. Antonyms: extraordinary, superior, uncommon, incomparable.

2.not satisfactory; poor; inferior: Mediocre construction makes that building dangerous. Synonyms: meager, low-quality, second-rate; so-so. Antonyms: excellent, superior. (Dictionary.com)

I choose to see this as an il-chosen word - You cant really mean it, or are you trolling?

mstillhere

7th June 2012, 02:54

"Mediocre"? C'mon!

me·di·o·cre [mee-dee-oh-ker]
adjective 1. of only ordinary or moderate quality; neither good nor bad; barely adequate: The car gets only mediocre mileage, but it's fun to drive. Synonyms: undistinguished, commonplace, pedestrian, everyday; run-of-the-mill. Antonyms: extraordinary, superior, uncommon, incomparable.

Well, in a sport where the second arrived is considered to be the first of the losers saying tha MW is a mediocre driver should be seenn as a unfair assesment.
I did not see you saying anything against Massa who I consider a to be a mediocre driver. And Massa has been more successful in terms of victories .

2.not satisfactory; poor; inferior: Mediocre construction makes that building dangerous. Synonyms: meager, low-quality, second-rate; so-so. Antonyms: excellent, superior. (Dictionary.com)

I choose to see this as an il-chosen word - You cant really mean it, or are you trolling?

Well, in a sport where the second arrived if the first of the losers saying that MW is a mediocre driver shouldn't be seen as an unfair statement. I did not see you complaining about my commenting on FM mediocrity although in terms of F1 wins Massa has been more successfull than MW. (Respectvely 11 victories Vs. 8)

So, again IMO, and I am not using any "put downs" towards who does not agree with me, Ferrari does not need another "Massa". If they decide to get rid of Felipe logic dictates to replace him with someone who would be better than him. Right?

pete c

7th June 2012, 05:18

Yup and that would be Mark

TheFamousEccles

7th June 2012, 08:01

Semantics, mate. Misguided ones at that.

As for Massa, my comments stand for him. too. And I do believe that you didn't mean anything as a "put down", but I do think that your judgement is a bit harsh. Both Webber and Massa have been contenders for the WDC (Massa famously beaten by one-solitary-point, remember), so to claim that "second is the first loser" is to my mind harsh to the verge of ridiculous. By this logic Gilles Villeneuve would be "mediocre" :eek: .

Anyway, differing opinions and aren't we lucky that we can?

Malbec

7th June 2012, 09:21

Well, maybe because LH does not like to be in the top 3? I am sure he'll like to be number one and he does not see thta happening at McLaren anymore. The fact that McLaren has been on the top 3 is not necessarely reflecting their future, as I wrote earlier. And what seems to be the biggest indicator about LH's mixed feelings about his future at McLaren is the fact that he has not signed yet the "principesque" new contract offering him 60,000,000 mil contract (McLaren will offer Lewis Hamilton new £60m contract extension to remain with Woking marque | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2149534/McLaren-offer-Lewis-Hamilton-new-60m-contract-extension-remain-Woking-marque.html)). What I also find interesting in this article is the following: "While McLaren are eager to get discussions under way, Hamilton’s management are understandably biding their time, given there could yet be opportunities at Mercedes, Red Bull and even Ferrari next season". "Understandably" is the word that caught my attention. Of course I would love to know exactley why thay are saying that, although the "why" could have been said earlier on.

So you think LH is going for an 'opportunity' at Mercedes? A team that in its full 13 year history has been quicker than McLaren for about 10 races, the first half of 2009 and China 2012. OK, I can see that he can practically smell the multiple championship wins there....

RBR and Ferrari? In what way are either an improvement on what he has now, especially Ferrari? What happens if LH goes to RBR and Newey decides to retire or move to pastures new? How is his relationship with Helmut Marko and De Matechitz going to be like, if Webber is any indication he's going to be treated much worse than he is at McLaren.

If LH and his management are genuinely delaying signing the contract with McLaren and talking about switching teams then its a ploy to get more from McLaren. We've been here many times before.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think either of these 3 teams could be a significant improvement on what he has now.

F1boat

7th June 2012, 10:24

McLaren will continue with Lewis but will Mark end up at Ferrari? Possible? Vettel wont because Alonso will murder him.

I doubt it. In the beginning maybe, but once Vettel gets comfortable he will be a bit faster IMO, like Lewis in 2007.

steveaki13

7th June 2012, 12:50

jens

7th June 2012, 13:19

N4D13

7th June 2012, 13:43

If you are talking about the whole 13-year history of the team, then as BAR they were better than McLaren in 2004 as well. And some races in 2006. :p :

Malbec still has a point - why would Hamilton leave McLaren for a team with a poorer record? I don't think it would be a sensible choice.

Malbec

7th June 2012, 13:50

If you are talking about the whole 13-year history of the team, then as BAR they were better than McLaren in 2004 as well. And some races in 2006. :p :

Oops. forgot about that, lets bump it up to 25 or so races then out of over 200 ;)

driveace

7th June 2012, 16:27

Will Lewis leave McLaren,was the question.Well I don't think so,in my eyes better the devil you know.And Button is falling away now,although I expect both Macs to do well in Montreal this weekend.Will Vettel leave RBR,or will Vettel and Hamilton swop seats? I don't think McLaren are as slick in tricks or bending or being dubious as RBR are either,but Hamiltons service received from Mc Laren this year has been bad,and if my road car was getting serviced as bad I would change the garage that looked after it too !

truefan72

7th June 2012, 21:28

unless he is moving to RBR, he is probably going nowhere

mstillhere

7th June 2012, 22:32

So you think LH is going for an 'opportunity' at Mercedes? A team that in its full 13 year history has been quicker than McLaren for about 10 races, the first half of 2009 and China 2012. OK, I can see that he can practically smell the multiple championship wins there....

RBR and Ferrari? In what way are either an improvement on what he has now, especially Ferrari? What happens if LH goes to RBR and Newey decides to retire or move to pastures new? How is his relationship with Helmut Marko and De Matechitz going to be like, if Webber is any indication he's going to be treated much worse than he is at McLaren.

If LH and his management are genuinely delaying signing the contract with McLaren and talking about switching teams then its a ploy to get more from McLaren. We've been here many times before.

I'm genuinely curious as to how you think either of these 3 teams could be a significant improvement on what he has now.

Well, since you seem to follow a logic, how would you explain that as of today, LH has not signed the new contract with McLaren? I am sure you know that McLaren if offering LH an incredible amount of money. I am also sure that LH is well aware about what you and other people are saying about his options. I know, if you were him, you would have the new contract in your pocket already and yet....................Lewis has not signed anything.

Now, this is not a contract between a small F1 team and a mediocre F1 driver. A contract of these proportions are discussed and signed well in advance of the end of the old contract.

That's exctately why the press and F1 people and fans are wondering about what's going on. Anyone else, as I said, would have signed that contract a long time ago but not Lewis. He has been with McLaren for a long time as everyone knows and if he hasn't signed anything is not because he forgot or he hasn't had the time to do it.

Something else, obviously, is going on and the only plausible explaination is that he is changing team or there is something big LH does not like at McLaren. Something that goes beyond ML's prestige, history, etc. Maybe it's becasue they don't approve of LH's friends. :)

PS http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100176

mstillhere

8th June 2012, 02:38

F1 contracts are not always signed well in advance as history has shown and not just with Lewis Hamilton. It may be the case that a deal or agreement has been reached but the general public just don't know about it yet. The Mystic Megs amongst us can speculate all they want.

I respect your view but I don't share it. This is not something where there should be any secrecy. It would be in the interest of the team putting the whole issue to rest rather than allowing other teams to keep in contacting LH with their offers. It would be a little too risky if you think about it. Lewis could just cave in.

Hawkmoon

8th June 2012, 05:00

F1boat

8th June 2012, 08:12

It is true, Hawkmoon, but because the realistic option for him is to move to Mercedes, I think that this is extremely risky, as they are much worse team than McLaren. I can't imagine how will Lewis feel if he is plagued with the problems of Michael and, even if I am not a fan, I DON'T want him to suffer trough this. No F1 driver deserves such horrid incompetence from his team.

Malbec

8th June 2012, 13:15

I respect your view but I don't share it. This is not something where there should be any secrecy. It would be in the interest of the team putting the whole issue to rest rather than allowing other teams to keep in contacting LH with their offers. It would be a little too risky if you think about it. Lewis could just cave in.

There is risk on both sides, but all we know now is that LH hasn't signed a contract and is negotiating with McLaren. He or his PR agents keep talking about being in negotiations with other teams, have you not seen this before as a classic tactic to get better terms? Until he actually turns up at another team I refuse to believe all these "I'm leaving McLaren" PR releases as anything but PR. No other team out there will be as competitive and supportive as McLaren. In your posts here you haven't presented anything to indicate otherwise.

N4D13

8th June 2012, 13:31

Alonso moved to McLaren in 2007 despite Renault being signifacantly better than McLaren in 2006. Even his move to Ferrari in 2010 wasn't a clear upgrade as Ferrari were coming off an awful 2009. Schumacher left a championship winning Benetton team for Ferrai in 2006. Ferrari had won 2 races in the preceding 4 years. Sometimes drivers change teams for reasons other than pure performance. If Hamilon isn't entirely happy at McLaren he may like the prospect of a change of scenery even if it means driving a lesser performing car for a season or two. We're not talking about a move to HRT here. Hamilton's options are the top 4 teams in the championship.
While you've given a good explanation, I think you might be missing a vital point. You've mentioned examples of drivers leaving their teams for Ferrari and McLaren, but it's fairly obvious that there's a massive difference between Ferrari and McLaren and any other team. They have been the strongest teams in F1 history and they have always managed to raise their game significantly when they have needed it. And of course, there are other teams which can prove to be strong as well, but they are riskier options and, of course, none of them is either Ferrari nor McLaren. Driving for either of them has a higher significance than being part of any other F1 team.

mstillhere

28th September 2012, 22:13

Dear friends,

I know some of you are not too surprised to see me here after the not so shocking (at least for me) news that ML and LH are separating.

I hope you are going to recognize that you heard this news from me first months ago. I recall a lot of people not taking this news, that I obtained confidentially obviously, seriously. I read a lot of message showing perplexity, doubt, denial and so on.

We need to remember that pilots change teams like we change socks so I never understood all the negative comments. One thing is for sure: LH is not naive. He definitely knows way more than all his fans know about what's going on for reeal at McLaren's right now.

What we know is that starting from next year ML wont get Mercedes engines for free anymore and on top of that the new engines are going to designed to fit a Mercedes not a ML as it has been the case until now.

Would ML have the money to buy these engines? Would they be happy getting an engine that would not specifically designed for their car? Obviously we know the answers to these two questions if we talk about Mercedes: they have plenty of money for the new car development and for LH and of course the engine would be their own. Of course we don't know how successfull are they going to be. Is that why LH left ML? We will never know.

Of course I would be very concerned if I were at ML if Button were to go as well. Perez would be happy to be at ML. AT least at the beginning. I do wonder however, if ML would be underperforming next year, if he would regret switching teams.

Tazio

28th September 2012, 23:15

Never mind, bad idea. ;)

mstillhere

29th September 2012, 20:22

Dr Rappaccini, what a pleasure to see you stopping by. I haven't heard from you in a while. I hope everything is well. :)

PS I hope you didn't get in troble for stopping by :)

Tazio

30th September 2012, 04:51

Everything is cool with me slick! I've been staying out of trouble, thanks for caring. Maybe you could give me some advice on the market oh sage one. :confused: ;)

mstillhere

1st October 2012, 04:07

Everything is cool with me slick! I've been staying out of trouble, thanks for caring. Maybe you could give me some advice on the market oh sage one. :confused: ;)

I am happy to hear you have not been in trouble. I know you are very passionate about this sport we all love.

Talking about the martket, something I don't see people talking much about is looking at the passage of LH to Mercedes as a mere financial operation.

ML with the loss of Santander Bank is losing a major sponsor and what was adding insult to the injury was that LH was asking for too more money. On top of that ML soon enough would have to buy the engines from Mercedes. On the PRs front, ML not winning championships is not helping much in terms of free advertising for the team.

The opposite can be said about Ferrari. Their sponsors are staying where they are. Car sales are going extremely well, and of course let's not forget, they are also make their own engines. In terms of championship, things look pretty good. So, as anyone can see, financially the Italian team does not seem to have too many worries.

So, for ML not to bow to LH request was the only wise thing to do. In fact while LH takes off, Perez brings to ML major amount of money, precious oxygen for the silver team.

He is sponsored by Carlos Slim, the richest man in the world, if I recall correctly. Carlos owns the very successfull TELMEX, and that translates into millions of dollars for ML. Perez also brings a lot of money from "Visit Mexico" as well. On top of all that, Perez, in terms of competition, looks pretty good to me. I actually have no idea why Ferrari did not want to give him a chance. (I have a felling they'll regrett their decistion).

So, as you can see the whole thing has nothing to do with the "sport" but it was just a financial operation. But that unfortunately is not that easy to see when we look at F1 with the eyes of fan.

Talk to you soon.

Knock-on

1st October 2012, 08:20

Blimey, the thread started out with you posting some speculative 2nd hand rubbish about Lewis possibly moving to some other team and finish with you claiming yourself to be the 2nd coming of Nostradamus?

You then claim that Sergio is bringing money to McLaren which has been denied by Carlos but I'm sure you know better than the main man what he's finances are like.

I have never seen anyone polish a turd into a fine Gem but in your mind, I'm sure you're holding a Diamond :p

Knock-on

1st October 2012, 09:59

I reckon Vettel will move teams in the next 5 years, Bookmark my post, you have been told ;) :p

Ohh, ohh, ohh. And watch this space. The old guard of Seb, Alonso and Hamilton will be overtaken in the next decade by some gret new drivers and some aren't even in F1 yet. You heard it here guys!!

Oh, and Schumacher 'might' retire

mstillhere

1st October 2012, 14:40

I always appreciate good sense of humour. You guys are so funny. Obviously, I am no Nostradamous but more a renaissance man.

I actually love to analyze facts. And I guess I can do it better than many of you for one simple reason: I am not ML fan.

Of course at the bottom of your sarcasm there is a certain amount of disconfort and dsappointment, and understandly so. I know that it pains you guys to see LH leaving ML. It was quite shocking to me seeing MS leave Ferrari, but hey.......c'est la vie, right?

As often happens to fans their love for their hero gets in the way of objectivily assess a situation.

Without this love in fact, it was clear to many people operating in the sector, that LH was on his way out. It's exctately the refusal to attentivily and objectvily consider the ML financial situation that led the ML fans to initially, and actually until a couple days ago, deny what I had reported, together with many other journalists who were saying the same thing I must say, and now having to admit that all their negative comments were all proven wrong by the facts must, and that's a simple guess, be a little unconfortable.

I know that for many of you it makes no sense seeing LH leaving ML. But there are plenty of good reasons if you asked LH and ML. It is money, right or wrong, that makes the world spin. End of the story.

Oh............I almost forgot. Right know Sauber has a Telmex sponsorship (Sauber F1 Team | Telmex (http://www.sauberf1team.com/en/partners/premium_partners/telmex.cfm)). Is that just a conincidence?

Anyway, I am truly sorry to see ML not doing so well and the way I see it next year would be really rough for ML and their pilots.

PS I whish I were this good in predicting the lottery numbers as I was with LH prediction. But yet, there is no logic behind those numbers extraction.

donKey jote

1st October 2012, 19:19

Its drivers all the way for me ;)
For me too. Forza Ferrari ! ;)

steveaki13

1st October 2012, 23:20

A country will host a Grand Prix in the next 20 years that has never even heard of F1.

Also Bernie may leave his hotseat by 3000.

tfp

1st October 2012, 23:41

A country will host a Grand Prix in the next 20 years that has never even heard of F1.

Also Bernie may leave his hotseat, divorced his 25th wife, and launched a range of gold plated bog seats for exceedingly rich people by 3000

Corrected your post :D

mstillhere

2nd October 2012, 00:12

May the force be with you. I for one, am more of a team fan. TBH, there was some speculation at the beginning of the championship that Mercedes was going to be the team that was going to surprise a lot of people.

For some reason they didn't do it, but I still feel that soon or late they are going to get it right (I know that's not much of a prediction, right?).

Could they turn out to be like the Toyota? Lots of money and investiments with no results? Could be. But now with LH with them and with the increasing of number of people working for the team I highly doubt it.

And let's not forget that the new changes that are going to be taken place next year may just favor Mercedes and Ferrari (I hear) at the expense of RB and ML. Did LH know that?
I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

N4D13

2nd October 2012, 02:29

Could they turn out to be like the Toyota? Lots of money and investiments with no results? Could be. But now with LH with them and with the increasing of number of people working for the team I highly doubt it.
You'd have to wonder what Toyota could have achieved in 2009 had they had a top driver with them. Remember that 2009 Bahrain GP? A better driver - or a decent strategy - would have given them their first win in F1.

kfzmeister

2nd October 2012, 03:33

And let's not forget that the new changes that are going to be taken place next year may just favor Mercedes and Ferrari (I hear) at the expense of RB and ML. Huh? Could you elaborate?

gloomyDAY

2nd October 2012, 03:35

Best of luck to Hamilton, but I'm not holding my breath. Mercedes aren't going to be competitive next season, and I doubt they'll be at the front of the pack in 2014.

You'd have to wonder what Toyota could have achieved in 2009 had they had a top driver with them. Remember that 2009 Bahrain GP? A better driver - or a decent strategy - would have given them their first win in F1.Man, don't remind me. Toyota were dominant when the weather was hot, and it showed in qualifying. Bad tire strategy lead to their demise. I think that could have also been Glock's only shot at a win.

AndyL

2nd October 2012, 10:16

Huh? Could you elaborate?

The only rule changes I can recall hearing about are a cosmetic nose-job, which probably won't make any significant performance difference, and the banning of double-DRS which will only adversely affect Mercedes.

zako85

2nd October 2012, 12:12

To tell the truth, I was already getting annoyed by the rigid driver lineup at the top four teams, that hasn't changed a bit in three years. To make things worse, some of those "stale" cars were performing below expectation (e.g. Mercedes, Alonso's number 2 driver). Change is good in such cases. Finally, a new young talent is given a chance at a top team, and Mercedes finally hires a top driver. The next season will be even more exciting IMO.

mstillhere

2nd October 2012, 15:09

Huh? Could you elaborate?

I think that should be an all new thread

Malbec

5th October 2012, 13:15

So, for ML not to bow to LH request was the only wise thing to do. In fact while LH takes off, Perez brings to ML major amount of money, precious oxygen for the silver team.

He is sponsored by Carlos Slim, the richest man in the world, if I recall correctly. Carlos owns the very successfull TELMEX, and that translates into millions of dollars for ML. Perez also brings a lot of money from "Visit Mexico" as well. On top of all that, Perez, in terms of competition, looks pretty good to me. I actually have no idea why Ferrari did not want to give him a chance. (I have a felling they'll regrett their decistion).

So, as you can see the whole thing has nothing to do with the "sport" but it was just a financial operation. But that unfortunately is not that easy to see when we look at F1 with the eyes of fan.

Except that you are wrong.

Telmex sponsorship will be staying at Sauber as confirmed by Sauber today and earlier in the week by Perez' manager.

As I'm sure you're aware Carlos Slim and Peter Sauber have a strong personal relationship with the latter being invited to Slim jr's wedding, the sponsorship deal was done with an eye towards buying into the team in the future.

Why did Ferrari not want to give him a chance? Apparently because he didn't impress much at their test sessions and/or because Slim wasn't willing to back him with money depending on who you talk to.

mstillhere

7th October 2012, 02:28

Except that you are wrong.

Telmex sponsorship will be staying at Sauber as confirmed by Sauber today and earlier in the week by Perez' manager.

As I'm sure you're aware Carlos Slim and Peter Sauber have a strong personal relationship with the latter being invited to Slim jr's wedding, the sponsorship deal was done with an eye towards buying into the team in the future.

Why did Ferrari not want to give him a chance? Apparently because he didn't impress much at their test sessions and/or because Slim wasn't willing to back him with money depending on who you talk to.

Why Ferrari didn't want Perez? The only explanation that makes any sense is that Ferrari has somebody coming. Somebody that has more experience than Perez. So, if that would be the case, then why hiring someone like Perez for just a year and kind of mess his career up. That also would also explain why Massa has not received his pink slip so far. Ferrari might need someone, just anyone like Massa, for one more year and than replace him with..............Vettel?

In terms of Telmex, I read that article as well. I was a little surprised myself but then I thought that the article did not say that they weren't advertising anywhere else. So, like Santander, they might advertise on two different cars.

F1boat

7th October 2012, 10:28

Lewis stated that it is unlikely to win a race in 2013.

mstillhere

8th October 2012, 04:47

Lewis stated that it is unlikely to win a race in 2013.

You know,

I feel Mercedes more soon than later will be the team to beat. They have almost everything in place. What they needed was an above the average pilot and more and better personnel. They have plenty of money and enough expertise. I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis would be wrong and had instead a hell of a championship next year.

Mia 01

8th October 2012, 06:47

I got a feeling that Lewis already regrets his move to Mercedes. Just reading his latest tweets.

Malbec

8th October 2012, 10:46

I think his tweets suggest he is more than pleased to be out of McLaren at the end of the season.

His behaviour at Suzuka wasn't that of someone who is happy about where his life is going. He was moody all weekend and the vitriol he directed at Perez after the race (while both amusing and accurate) was overly vindictive. His tweets are frankly bizarre and demonstrate an amazing level of insecurity. That is not the kind of behaviour one would expect who can see the light at the end of the tunnel, leaving McLaren at the end of the season.

The guy needs to see a shrink IMO, he'd gain a lot.

Garry Walker

8th October 2012, 16:08

His behaviour at Suzuka wasn't that of someone who is happy about where his life is going. He was moody all weekend and the vitriol he directed at Perez after the race (while both amusing and accurate) was overly vindictive. His tweets are frankly bizarre and demonstrate an amazing level of insecurity. That is not the kind of behaviour one would expect who can see the light at the end of the tunnel, leaving McLaren at the end of the season.

The guy needs to see a shrink IMO, he'd gain a lot.

I agree. I think there is a lot wrong with Hamilton mentally.

steveaki13

8th October 2012, 17:56

I do not agree about his mental health, but it is becoming clear Lewis is becoming more frustrated at his F1 career and he is struggling to win like he feels he should.

In his career he has won a race every year, but despite being in a very fast car and being in 5 title fights including this season, he has only succeeded once.

I hope Lewis can go to Mercedes and release all this negativity circling around him and leave his Mclaren career as a great start to his career many wins and a title and can come back next season fresh, agreesive, motivated to help Mercedes get to the front and win that second title.

F1boat

9th October 2012, 09:53

I do not agree about his mental health, but it is becoming clear Lewis is becoming more frustrated at his F1 career and he is struggling to win like he feels he should.

Here lies the problem, he feels that he is entitled to win and to be loved... and when that doesn't happen, he loses his temper.

F1boat

9th October 2012, 09:55

You know,

I feel Mercedes more soon than later will be the team to beat. They have almost everything in place.

We'll see. So far, except Ferrari, we had one successful factory team, Renault, while BMW, Honda and Toyota struggled.

Malbec

9th October 2012, 10:21

I do not agree about his mental health,

Just to clarify, a shrink/counsellor/therapist is not there for mental health. Thats a psychiatrist.

In order however to help someone understand how and why they deal with the issues they face in life, where the roots of that behaviour come from and how to be aware of it and perhaps deal with it a shrink would be exactly the right person.

Personally I think everyone could benefit from seeing a shrink but Lewis would probably gain from it more than most.

F1boat

9th October 2012, 18:32

Good that you like this aspect, I don't. Kimi is cool. Lewis isn't.
IMO, of course.

Garry Walker

9th October 2012, 19:01

Good that you like this aspect, I don't. Kimi is cool. Lewis isn't.
IMO, of course.

Yeah, Kimi is much more an actual man than Lewis. Can you imagine Kimi complaining on Twitter that Grosjean has unfollowed him? Just the thought of that is making me laugh.

AndyL

9th October 2012, 19:06

Good that you like this aspect, I don't. Kimi is cool. Lewis isn't.
IMO, of course.

Imagine if Lewis had said after causing a yellow flag "I don't care what happened to the others"! But Kimi gets away with it. It's all about the cool :s mokin:

Garry Walker

9th October 2012, 19:17

Imagine if Lewis had said after causing a yellow flag "I don't care what happened to the others"! But Kimi gets away with it. It's all about the cool :s mokin:

Well, that was honest from him and honest in the not pathetic sense. Let's be honest, no driver really cares about what happens to others on track, they only say sorry when trying to be PC and act all nice for the viewers who will get a heart attack when someone dares to be not so PC.

Knock-on

10th October 2012, 10:44

Well, that was honest from him and honest in the not pathetic sense. Let's be honest, no driver really cares about what happens to others on track, they only say sorry when trying to be PC and act all nice for the viewers who will get a heart attack when someone dares to be not so PC.

Garry, you are wrong. In the race it's everyone for themselves and although not as strong as it used to be, the drivers do generally give respect and don't deliberately take others off apart from a few noticable exceptions. However, there is nothing PC or false about the regard between the different teams and drivers. Perhaps if you hang around the paddocks rather than from behind a Monitor or screen, you would understand this.

F1boat

10th October 2012, 11:25

Imagine if Lewis had said after causing a yellow flag "I don't care what happened to the others"! But Kimi gets away with it. It's all about the cool :s mokin:

Lewis would have blamed someone on twitter for it. Probably his team and the engineers. That's why Kimi is cool and he isn't.

Garry Walker

11th October 2012, 17:47

Garry, you are wrong. In the race it's everyone for themselves and although not as strong as it used to be, the drivers do generally give respect and don't deliberately take others off apart from a few noticable exceptions.No, they don't ram each other out most of the time, but neither do they care if they spoil someone's lap by accident. Why should they?

Perhaps if you hang around the paddocks rather than from behind a Monitor or screen, you would understand this.

You hang around the F1 paddock often then?