NASCAR COT a big joke.

[NASCAR8]

So we have had the 1st COT race, and what a joke! The cars were a full second SLOWER per lap. The drivers, including the No.5 winner said it "sucks",and we have gone from having the best looking cars in motorsport to something that looks like a cheap Jap crap sports car.
NASCAR could of done alot of the safety stuff on the inside of the car without this drastic new look.You don't have to change the look and all the driving characteristics of a race car just to put some extra side bars in and put the driver in the centre of the car.
God only knows what will happen when we hit the Superspeedways, but it won't be good.... :vader:

[Lee Roy]

I actually liked it. I wish they'd go to them exclusively for the rest of the year.

[dont_be_jack]

The point of the car IS to slow them down. The cars will keep on increasing their speeds, making it more likely for them to get airborne. The CoT is meant to stop this for a time.

It looks more like a IROC car than anything, not some "Jap crap."

Just you wait and see, you're going to get better racing with it than you expect. I would bet that the races, once the teams get everything figured out, are better than the ones with the CoY. The reason why drivers hate it is that not all the tricks have been figured out yet...

[harvick#1]

I didn't even notice they were racing, I've already got that accustomed to them. I thought they were fine and appeared to drive like Race cars.

[ms0362]

Bristol doesn't really tell much about how the car will race. Neither will Martinsville. The true test will be a downforce track and the superspeedway. IMO the safety features they added could have be done on the existing cars. The COT lacks a sleek design that most are attracted to. It's as boxy as the trucks and isn't flattering to the manufactuer's design to encourage "win on Sunday, buy on Monday". The "wing" just allows NASCAR to hand them out like restrictor plates and gain more control. IMO, Brian France is flirting with disaster on this.

[dont_be_jack]

Bristol doesn't really tell much about how the car will race. Neither will Martinsville. The true test will be a downforce track and the superspeedway. IMO the safety features they added could have be done on the existing cars. The COT lacks a sleek design that most are attracted to. It's as boxy as the trucks and isn't flattering to the manufactuer's design to encourage "win on Sunday, buy on Monday". The "wing" just allows NASCAR to hand them out like restrictor plates and gain more control. IMO, Brian France is flirting with disaster on this.

I don't think you would've had the great increases in safety with the old car. They were going to continue to become sleeker and faster, thus reducing any increased safety for the driver.

Also, it's nowhere near as boxy as the trucks. I don't know what race you were watching.

And while Bristol and Martinsville won't tell us how the car will react on the aero-dependent tracks it does give the drivers a chance to get used to the feel. Driver are creatures of habit and when that habit is disrupted by this car that handles differently, they all respond in the simplest, most immature manner - "They suck." Give them some time to get used to the car, give the teams the time to learn what they need to do in order to get the car just right and everything will work out just fine.

[Lee Roy]

And while Bristol and Martinsville won't tell us how the car will react on the aero-dependent tracks it does give the drivers a chance to get used to the feel. Driver are creatures of habit and when that habit is disrupted by this car that handles differently, they all respond in the simplest, most immature manner - "They suck." Give them some time to get used to the car, give the teams the time to learn what they need to do in order to get the car just right and everything will work out just fine.


:thumbsup:

[ghostdancing]

we have gone from having the best looking cars in motorsport to something that looks like a cheap Jap crap sports car.


I agree, I love the look of the car of yesterday, and regret it's eventualy passing. If we can just lose that cheap looking spoiler at the back, then the cars will look alittle like those cool racers from the late 80's early 90's.

The fact that the cars were lapping a whole second slower was I guess due to them being new to everyone, but the fact is they did look slow on TV.

[JovialJooles]

You don't need COT to improve safety. The Safer barriers and HANS have already made NASCAR much safer. Side impact issues could have been addressed with the original car.

Speed - we have restrictor plates for that. How long is it going to be before they have clawed back the speed anyway?

Cost - maybe long term, but short term definitely not. Also, as the tolerances are finer on the COT, how long is it before cars don't pass inspection? Biffle has already lost his car until later in the week, not great preparation for Martinsville.

Style - none.

They should have called it Car for a Blind Alley.

Ho hum.

[RaceFanStan]

I liked the look of the COT & I thought the racing was VERY good ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif

Chalk me up as supporting the COT as I like it VERY much ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif

[dont_be_jack]

You don't need COT to improve safety. The Safer barriers and HANS have already made NASCAR much safer. Side impact issues could have been addressed with the original car.

Speed - we have restrictor plates for that. How long is it going to be before they have clawed back the speed anyway?

Cost - maybe long term, but short term definitely not. Also, as the tolerances are finer on the COT, how long is it before cars don't pass inspection? Biffle has already lost his car until later in the week, not great preparation for Martinsville.

Style - none.

They should have called it Car for a Blind Alley.

Ho hum.

Side impacts could not have been addressed with the CoY. There was not enough room between the sheet metal and the cage for there to be the impact foam that exists in the CoT.

You can't rely on restrictor plates for lowering speed everywhere. Why? Look at New Hampshire when Burton lead all the laps when they ran the restrictor plates out of fear that there would be another fatal crash there. Most boring race in the world.

The cost may be higher right now for both reasons that they need to produce two kinds of cars as well as they're still making CoTs, but it's not that much of a difference to the major teams. It's already helping lower costs for the smaller teams, I guarantee it.

There is style to it - a more realistic stock car style. Do you see cars on the street that the majority of people drive that were as sleek as the CoY? I don't think so. The CoT looks much more like a regular street car.

[call_me_andrew]

The CoT looks much more like a regular street car.

Yeah, but if it looked like the ACTUAL street cars, that would be great.

In this picture there are two Chevys, one Ford, and one Dodge.

Can you tell which is the Ford and/or which is the Dodge?

http://nascartlk.com/images/Car%20of%20Tomorrow%202.jpg

I still think the stock bodywork would make for close racing.

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/dodge_charger_rt_2006_exterior_4_346x270.jpg

http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/ford_fusion_i4s_2006_exterior_4_346x270.jpg

http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/images.autobytel.com/view/aic/CHEVROLET/IMPALA/sdn/usa_2005_chevrolet_impala_sdn_4_x_exdrvrsd_x.jpg

http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/images.autobytel.com/view/aic/TOYOTA/CAMRY/sdn/usa_2002_toyota_camry_sdn_4_x_exdrvrsd_x.jpg

And I think NASCAR would like to lower the horsepower numbers across the board.

[call_me_andrew]

And I'll put up the Monte Carlo now because I can't use six images in one post.


http://a904.g.akamai.net/7/904/506/v0011/images.autobytel.com/view/aic/CHEVROLET/MONTECARLO/cpe/usa_2004_chevrolet_montecarlo_cpe_2_x_exdrvrsd_sss upercharged.jpg

[POS_Maggott]

Where did you get the "full second slower" number?

Homework lesson!

During the single qualifying session held last season at Bristol, Kurt Busch got the pole by running a 124.906mph lap. This season, the pole was 125.453mph.

That... thats about a tenth faster. Practice times in race trim were around 1mph faster last season, but with much cooler temperatures compared to this year, the track was obviously much faster.

When we go to Martinsville, you'll see that the cars are just as fast on these tracks.

[slorydn1]

Where did you get the "full second slower" number?

Homework lesson!

During the single qualifying session held last season at Bristol, Kurt Busch got the pole by running a 124.906mph lap. This season, the pole was 125.453mph.

That... thats about a tenth faster. Practice times in race trim were around 1mph faster last season, but with much cooler temperatures compared to this year, the track was obviously much faster.

When we go to Martinsville, you'll see that the cars are just as fast on these tracks.


I think he was probably comparing it to the track record which was set
by Ryan Newman on 3/21/2003 which was a 14.908 sec @ 128.709 mph

[Abo]

The cars were a full second SLOWER per lap

I thought that was the point...

How about issues with the front splitter cutting tyres down?

[POS_Maggott]

I think he was probably comparing it to the track record which was set
by Ryan Newman on 3/21/2003 which was a 14.908 sec @ 128.709 mph

Even if you can count that, then its only 4 tenths slower. Essentially, since the track record hasnt been broken in 4 years, we can see that all the cars since then have been slower.

So really, that argument isnt valid any way that you look at it, it just doesnt make sense.

[harvick#1]

they will break the track record possibly next year, as long as they don't take any banking out ;)

[dont_be_jack]

they will break the track record possibly next year, as long as they don't take any banking out ;)

Well, they should be closer to it as they learn what little tricks they can pull with the new car.

[rainbow warrior]

I thought that was the point...

How about issues with the front splitter cutting tyres down?

That is my BIGGEST concern, imagine that on a track like Dega or Daytona....Brrrrrr Doesn't bear thinking about.

IMHO - Loose the rear wing and they are not as bad as I first thought.

RW

[wedge]

The COT isn't just about safety.

They look butt ugly reason for a reason.

If a car looks sleek then it probably has good aero.

If a car looks ugly it has crap aero, lots of drag, and therefore bigger holes in the air and more passing. That's why NASCAR and commentators keeps comparing the COT with CTS.

I don't think there's a problem with the front splitters cutting tyres. The rear bumper overhang looks long enough (because it acts like a diffuser).

[POS_Maggott]

There are problems right now, but they'll be fixed with time I think.

At Dega and Daytona, I cant picture the splitter cutting tires. All the teams are going to be running the smallest splitter available, so it should not hang out as far as the one used at short tracks.

[call_me_andrew]

The COT isn't just about safety.
If a car looks ugly it has crap aero, lots of drag, and therefore bigger holes in the air and more passing. That's why NASCAR and commentators keeps comparing the COT with CTS.

That may be true in restrictor plate races or Indy Car races, but not with stock cars on an intermediate track.

I think there's a 20% chance that the first intermediate track race the COT sees will have minimal passing.

[wedge]

That may be true in restrictor plate races or Indy Car races, but not with stock cars on an intermediate track.

I think there's a 20% chance that the first intermediate track race the COT sees will have minimal passing.

What makes you think that? Doesn't matter if its stock cars or open wheels, the same principles of aero applies.

The COT has now set a level playing field. No one knows the best way to set the cars up and the drivers are hanging on to their cars.

Lots of fans say they miss the good ol' days of NASCAR. The good ol' days were when cars were shaped like bricks!

[call_me_andrew]

What makes you think that? Doesn't matter if its stock cars or open wheels, the same principles of aero applies.

Lots of fans say they miss the good ol' days of NASCAR. The good ol' days were when cars were shaped like bricks!

1. At a restrictor plate race or an Indy Car oval race, the drivers never lift. Indy Cars have so much down force, so much mechanical grip, and so little weight that they can run lots of down force, hold the throttle open, and still make faster lap times than a low drag car with a driver that lifts. Running a lot of down force in a race where no one lifts will make drafting effective.

A stock car can run at Daytona and Talladega with minimal drag and not lifting because the banking nearly eliminates lateral g's.

Now if a stock car is racing on an intermediate track, the drive can have the car set up for full down force, but they still can't hold the throttle wide open around the track. Now when the drivers have to lift, drafting means precisely s***. They need downforce to keep their speeds up, but they can't get any with other cars around because the draft is now dirty air making the cars less stable. Cars with more drag make more dirty air. While the wing is suppose to help reduce the amount of dirty air made, there's still a 20% chance of a parade breaking out.

2. No, the good ol' days were the 90's. The cars were real cars, the racing was close, and the coverage was free of hyperbole.

1998 Exide NASCAR Select Batteries 400 at Richmond

1. Jeff Burton: Ford
2. Jeff Gordon: Chevy
Margin of victory: 0.051
Time of race: 3:15:41
Cautions: 8 for 66 laps
Caution Laps: 18-25 (#75 oil on track), 36-48 (#3,16,42,77 accident backstretch), 145-153 (#90 accident turn 3), 207-214 (#91,97 spun turn 4), 216-221 (#44 accident turn 1), 332-339 (#3 stalled backstretch), 348-352 (#88 spun frontstretch), 364-372 (#18 accident turn 3)

Those were the good ol' days.

[wedge]

1. At a restrictor plate race or an Indy Car oval race, the drivers never lift. Indy Cars have so much down force, so much mechanical grip, and so little weight that they can run lots of down force, hold the throttle open, and still make faster lap times than a low drag car with a driver that lifts. Running a lot of down force in a race where no one lifts will make drafting effective.

A stock car can run at Daytona and Talladega with minimal drag and not lifting because the banking nearly eliminates lateral g's.

Now if a stock car is racing on an intermediate track, the drive can have the car set up for full down force, but they still can't hold the throttle wide open around the track. Now when the drivers have to lift, drafting means precisely s***. They need downforce to keep their speeds up, but they can't get any with other cars around because the draft is now dirty air making the cars less stable. Cars with more drag make more dirty air. While the wing is suppose to help reduce the amount of dirty air made, there's still a 20% chance of a parade breaking out.

2. No, the good ol' days were the 90's. The cars were real cars, the racing was close, and the coverage was free of hyperbole.

1998 Exide NASCAR Select Batteries 400 at Richmond

1. Jeff Burton: Ford
2. Jeff Gordon: Chevy
Margin of victory: 0.051
Time of race: 3:15:41
Cautions: 8 for 66 laps
Caution Laps: 18-25 (#75 oil on track), 36-48 (#3,16,42,77 accident backstretch), 145-153 (#90 accident turn 3), 207-214 (#91,97 spun turn 4), 216-221 (#44 accident turn 1), 332-339 (#3 stalled backstretch), 348-352 (#88 spun frontstretch), 364-372 (#18 accident turn 3)

Those were the good ol' days.

1. That's because that's how it is with the aero package in IRL. Rev limited engines and lots downforce to create more drag and therefore bigger draft why do you think they mandated higher wing angles this year?

FYI, an open wheeler creates a heck of a lot more of dirty air than a stock car. The wheels, suspension parts, the wings contribute to drag and turbulent air. A stock car, by its very nature, is very bulky and creates a bigger hole in the air.

The problem with NASCAR is that today's stock cars are much more aero efficient - they produce lots of downforce with minimal drag and that's why you hear more about aero-push today than in previous decades.

2. Fair enough, that's your opinion.

IMHO, the good ol' days were BEFORE Chevy raced the Monte Carlo in the 90s.

[Rusty Spanner]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nascar_unveils_new_car_of

CHARLOTTE, NC—Only days after its long-anticipated, much-criticized Car of Tomorrow debuted to overwhelmingly negative reviews at the Bristol Motor Speedway, NASCAR responded to the wishes of competitors and fans alike by introducing the stylishly retro, technologically retrograde NEXTEL Cup Car of Yesterday.

"This is exactly what everyone from race teams to race fans wanted all along—a real American racecar," said Robby Gordon, standing in front of the Jim Beam '77 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme he will drive for the rest of the season. "To hell with things like spoilers, adjustable suspensions, disc brakes, shoulder belts, all that junk. People want to see us racing the cars they drive every day, and anyone who's seen the parking lot at a NASCAR race will tell you that's what the Car of Yesterday gives them."

Based on tried-and-true NASCAR designs from what many consider the golden age of stock-car racing, the Car Of Yesterday is based on the racing team's choice of four-door body styles: either the '77 Cutlass Supreme, the '79 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, the '78 Dodge Diplomat, the '77 Ford Granada, the '77 Mercury Gran Marquis, or for series newcomers Toyota, the 1989 Corolla. All cars, regardless of body style, must have fully reclining seats, column shifters, vinyl tops, ashtrays, and automatically retracting seatbelts. Adding spoilers and air dams for purposes other than providing advertising space is forbidden, although teams will be allowed to bolt wooden 2-by-8 planks to their front and rear bumpers for the contact-heavy short-track races. Mechanically, all cars will be basically identical, featuring 360-cubic-inch V-8 engines with the air filters reversed, "glass-pack" mufflers, and factory power steering.

"Our primary concern with the Car of Yesterday was safety," said NASCAR competition director Robin Pemberton. "The fans hate that ****. We had to keep that in mind when we went back to the drawing board, so we took away anything that increased grip, improved handling, or prevented a stock car from experiencing a sudden and total loss of control. NASCAR isn't about the cars, it's about the drivers. And the Car of Yesterday keeps the driver involved with the vehicle, whether he's just driving it or, ideally, crashing it."

The Car of Yesterday underwent intensive single-car and multi-car tests earlier this week at Daytona, Texas Motor Speedway, and Martinsville, with testing director Brett Bodine and his crew wrecking 34 cars in routine driving. An enthusiastic Bodine reported the new design passed with flying colors.

"I could barely keep the thing out of the wall. It swapped ends, got way loose, and nearly spun out with little to no warning. Sometimes it dove down towards the infield for no reason I ever did figure out, and once coming off the banking at Daytona it rebounded off the suspension stops hard enough to bounce the whole front end in the air," said Bodine, who was pronounced healthy and released from Daytona Beach Memorial Hospital early Wednesday afternoon. "It may be the best all-around NASCAR stocker I've ever driven. I wish they had these cars when I was still racing, but unfortunately, they'd advanced past that point by then."

Drivers were unanimously positive when informed of the Car of Yesterday and praised NASCAR's courage in pursuing a deign philosophy that satisfied fans and racers alike.

"Like I said before, that Car of Tomorrow was crap," said Kyle Busch, who won the March 25 race in which the controversial design debuted. "It kind of stuck to the track in a boring way, and just sort of went where you pointed it. But this car reminds me of the ones I grew up watching—not just on the track, but on the two-lane highway outside of town. Hell, for all I know, this one was there."

NASCAR president Mike Helton is currently working closely with all competing teams, current Nextel Cup drivers, and a network of salvage yards and used-car dealers to make sure every team has enough cars and spares for the Car of Yesterday's debut race, currently scheduled for April 29 at Talladega Superspeedway, the largest tri-oval on the Nextel Cup circuit and one of NASCAR's fastest and most challenging tracks.

"We want to make sure fans have a strong first impression of the Car of Yesterday," said Helton. "And believe me, seeing a few dozen of these all-American road-hugging beauties roaring flat-out into Talladega's Turn One is something they'll be talking about for years."

[Sparky1329]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nascar_unveils_new_car_of

CHARLOTTE, NC—Only days after its long-anticipated, much-criticized Car of Tomorrow debuted to overwhelmingly negative reviews at the Bristol Motor Speedway, NASCAR responded to the wishes of competitors and fans alike by introducing the stylishly retro, technologically retrograde NEXTEL Cup Car of Yesterday.

"This is exactly what everyone from race teams to race fans wanted all along—a real American racecar," said Robby Gordon, standing in front of the Jim Beam '77 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme he will drive for the rest of the season. "To hell with things like spoilers, adjustable suspensions, disc brakes, shoulder belts, all that junk. People want to see us racing the cars they drive every day, and anyone who's seen the parking lot at a NASCAR race will tell you that's what the Car of Yesterday gives them."

Based on tried-and-true NASCAR designs from what many consider the golden age of stock-car racing, the Car Of Yesterday is based on the racing team's choice of four-door body styles: either the '77 Cutlass Supreme, the '79 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, the '78 Dodge Diplomat, the '77 Ford Granada, the '77 Mercury Gran Marquis, or for series newcomers Toyota, the 1989 Corolla. All cars, regardless of body style, must have fully reclining seats, column shifters, vinyl tops, ashtrays, and automatically retracting seatbelts. Adding spoilers and air dams for purposes other than providing advertising space is forbidden, although teams will be allowed to bolt wooden 2-by-8 planks to their front and rear bumpers for the contact-heavy short-track races. Mechanically, all cars will be basically identical, featuring 360-cubic-inch V-8 engines with the air filters reversed, "glass-pack" mufflers, and factory power steering.

"Our primary concern with the Car of Yesterday was safety," said NASCAR competition director Robin Pemberton. "The fans hate that ****. We had to keep that in mind when we went back to the drawing board, so we took away anything that increased grip, improved handling, or prevented a stock car from experiencing a sudden and total loss of control. NASCAR isn't about the cars, it's about the drivers. And the Car of Yesterday keeps the driver involved with the vehicle, whether he's just driving it or, ideally, crashing it."

The Car of Yesterday underwent intensive single-car and multi-car tests earlier this week at Daytona, Texas Motor Speedway, and Martinsville, with testing director Brett Bodine and his crew wrecking 34 cars in routine driving. An enthusiastic Bodine reported the new design passed with flying colors.

"I could barely keep the thing out of the wall. It swapped ends, got way loose, and nearly spun out with little to no warning. Sometimes it dove down towards the infield for no reason I ever did figure out, and once coming off the banking at Daytona it rebounded off the suspension stops hard enough to bounce the whole front end in the air," said Bodine, who was pronounced healthy and released from Daytona Beach Memorial Hospital early Wednesday afternoon. "It may be the best all-around NASCAR stocker I've ever driven. I wish they had these cars when I was still racing, but unfortunately, they'd advanced past that point by then."

Drivers were unanimously positive when informed of the Car of Yesterday and praised NASCAR's courage in pursuing a deign philosophy that satisfied fans and racers alike.

"Like I said before, that Car of Tomorrow was crap," said Kyle Busch, who won the March 25 race in which the controversial design debuted. "It kind of stuck to the track in a boring way, and just sort of went where you pointed it. But this car reminds me of the ones I grew up watching—not just on the track, but on the two-lane highway outside of town. Hell, for all I know, this one was there."

NASCAR president Mike Helton is currently working closely with all competing teams, current Nextel Cup drivers, and a network of salvage yards and used-car dealers to make sure every team has enough cars and spares for the Car of Yesterday's debut race, currently scheduled for April 29 at Talladega Superspeedway, the largest tri-oval on the Nextel Cup circuit and one of NASCAR's fastest and most challenging tracks.

"We want to make sure fans have a strong first impression of the Car of Yesterday," said Helton. "And believe me, seeing a few dozen of these all-American road-hugging beauties roaring flat-out into Talladega's Turn One is something they'll be talking about for years."


:rotflmao:

[djparky]

I think I'll reserve judgement on COT- the previous car was hardly a work of art either, as for the racing, it can be a little processional at some of the mid size tracks- Atlanta, Homestead, Texas spring to mind- so I'll wait and see what effect the COT has at those places

as for the IRL comparison- well it's true they run barn doors as rear wings which is why in theory they have pack racing- mind you Homestead saw most of the cars spaced out during long green runs

[POS_Maggott]

Hey guys, I dont know if you've realized this, but I have had an amazing thought.

Check it out.

The cars will all have the same downforce, right? So they're going to go really really fast into a left hand turn, and then they're going to run whatever line the tires will stick to.

aka, THE SAME LINES THAT THEY RUN NOW.

Just because downforce changes, doesnt mean the tires are not going to grip the way they did before. All downforce means is how fast you can go, not where you can drive your car.

I guarantee the racing will not change, its all in where the rubber meets the road, and we know that hasnt changed.

[Abo]

Just because downforce changes, doesnt mean the tires are not going to grip the way they did before. All downforce means is how fast you can go, not where you can drive your car.

That's a rather interesting statement!

[POS_Maggott]

But in essence, it's true.

Think about it; we all know that every team at the track is going to maximize their downforce for any given situation. With that in mind, the cars should have relatively even downforce numbers, which means that the big decider in how the cars run is going to be in the setup and the tires.

I guarantee you that you'll be able to run the car of tomorrow on all the same lines as a current Nextel Cup car at any track. It might be a little slower, but that means nothing.

Like I said, they're going straight really fast, then turning left and they'll go where ever the tires will grip. None of those lines will change, since the tires are what allows them to run there, not the cars themselves.

The racing will not change. Mark my words.

[Abo]

I agree entirely with what you're saying about running the exact same lines, but slower. But I reckon bringing the top speeds down it might open up other lines. Guess we'll see at the first fast track race, and you'll be welcome to say 'I told you so' if we get a snoozefest parade :D

[call_me_andrew]

1. That's because that's how it is with the aero package in IRL. Rev limited engines and lots downforce to create more drag and therefore bigger draft why do you think they mandated higher wing angles this year?

FYI, an open wheeler creates a heck of a lot more of dirty air than a stock car. The wheels, suspension parts, the wings contribute to drag and turbulent air. A stock car, by its very nature, is very bulky and creates a bigger hole in the air.

The problem with NASCAR is that today's stock cars are much more aero efficient - they produce lots of downforce with minimal drag and that's why you hear more about aero-push today than in previous decades.

Minimal drag? If the drag was minimal, there wouldn't be a problem with aero-push. Granted, the COT should be less sensitive to dirty air while creating downforce, there's still... well I've mentioned the odds by now.

[R. Mears]

A CART car/now CC has so much down force that at 120MPH it could literally drive upside down.
Part of the good old days was before toyota too. LOL Not so long ago eh?

[Mark in Oshawa]

The COT isn't a joke, it is the reality that we better get used to, because NASCAR wont give it up. I think in time, this whining will be replaced by talking about the racing, the same way we have gotten beyond the crap that started when NASCAR allowed the Monte Carlo to show up with 6 more inches of rear end than the street car. THAT was the start of this road we are on now, and NASCAR has a desire to get to parity, even if the cars all end up as funny looking bricks.

I personally don't think there was a lot wrong with racing as it was, but the COT will likely be interesting. If nothing else, it gives millions of us something to complain about on internet forums, and that alone is a reason NASCAR would keep it. AS long as we talk about NASCAR, they like it...

[call_me_andrew]

The cars will all have the same downforce, right? So they're going to go really really fast into a left hand turn, and then they're going to run whatever line the tires will stick to.

aka, THE SAME LINES THAT THEY RUN NOW.

Just because downforce changes, doesnt mean the tires are not going to grip the way they did before. All downforce means is how fast you can go, not where you can drive your car.

You forgot something important. The COT is more top-heavy than the previous generation. Thus, it has less mechanical grip.


I think in time, this whining will be replaced by talking about the racing, the same way we have gotten beyond the crap that started when NASCAR allowed the Monte Carlo to show up with 6 more inches of rear end than the street car.

When did that happen?

[R. Mears]

You forgot something important. The COT is more top-heavy than the previous generation. Thus, it has less mechanical grip.
Then perhaps easier to roll?....We'll find out at Talledega?

[POS_Maggott]

You forgot something important. The COT is more top-heavy than the previous generation. Thus, it has less mechanical grip.


You realize why that statement is kind of dumb, right?

Mechanical grip is the grip produced by manipulating the chassis, allowing for the most possible tire/track contact.

If you know anything about what that means, you'll see that mechanical grip isnt something that will become severely altered by two extra inches of roof height.

Yes, the car of tomorrow has a *slightly* higher center of gravity, but there are very easy ways to work around that, with simple chassis changes and changes in suspension geometry. Thus, you will be getting the most efficient amount of grip out of the setup, no matter how much more top heavy the car is...

[wedge]

With the higher roofline you get extra drag and you will lose some mechanical grip because the weight isn't distributed evenly as it was previously. The engineers will come up with chassis improvements to make their COT handle better.


Minimal drag? If the drag was minimal, there wouldn't be a problem with aero-push.

Errr..... that's the problem. The current cars make smaller holes in the air. Because the cars have been designed in the wind tunnel to be aero efficient it means today's cars are much more sensitive to dirty air because it needs clean air going over the car to get its downforce effectively.

That's one of the reasons for having splitters. In F1 they run high front wings but there's a school of thought that says you should run the front wing as low as possible.

[Jag_Warrior]

Other than the Dodge Charger, I don't find the current road cars these things are (slightly/barely/hardly) based on to be all that attractive either. But opinions on beauty are based off subjective standards. The bottom line is, the fans will get used to them - they will have no choice. Most were ready to throw eggs at the Grand Am DP's (myself included). But once you see them over & over for a few seasons, you forget about their appearance, since the racing is generally so good. IMO, the same will be true with these visually challenging creatures.

I'm just happy that Juan got a Busch win in a car that I can have as a diecast, without having to hide it when I have people over. If Juan wins in the CoT, that diecast puppy will have to stay in the closet. :p

[R. Mears]

I still don't like the looks of the COTs. They remind me of the rice burning 4 popper 100HP gang bangin crap with spoilers that I see driving around town.
Heck the only way I can tell a chevy from a ford or dodge is the sticker. :mad:

[Hoss Ghoul]

I still don't like the looks of the COTs. They remind me of the rice burning 4 popper 100HP gang bangin crap with spoilers that I see driving around town.
Heck the only way I can tell a chevy from a ford or dodge is the sticker. :mad:

It seems to be easier to tell who's where with the COT, its all Chevy's at the front.

[R. Mears]

It seems to be easier to tell who's where with the COT, its all Chevy's at the front.
LOL Good point! But I seem to remember that before COT. The winners pick Chevy, cause Chevy's a winner. :p

[harvick#1]

Chevy always wins, Roush is no longer a threat it seems other than Kenseth. so theres Ford

Dodge, well Kahne and Sadler may get wins

and Toyota, forget it.

Chevy is still the best

[R. Mears]

Chevy has the most wins in NASCAR history. I don't see why that should change cause of COT.

[harvick#1]

Chevy has the best teams to boot.

Gibbs, Childress, Hendrick. those are 8-9 cars that are always at the front.

then MB2 and DEI can run top 5's and top 10's as well

[call_me_andrew]

Errr..... that's the problem. The current cars make smaller holes in the air. Because the cars have been designed in the wind tunnel to be aero efficient it means today's cars are much more sensitive to dirty air because it needs clean air going over the car to get its downforce effectively.

No, it makes a huge hole. Size is relative. The vacuum created by a stock car is greater than that of a Champ Car.


You realize why that statement is kind of dumb, right?

Mechanical grip is the grip produced by manipulating the chassis, allowing for the most possible tire/track contact.

If you know anything about what that means, you'll see that mechanical grip isnt something that will become severely altered by two extra inches of roof height.

Yes, the car of tomorrow has a *slightly* higher center of gravity, but there are very easy ways to work around that, with simple chassis changes and changes in suspension geometry. Thus, you will be getting the most efficient amount of grip out of the setup, no matter how much more top heavy the car is...

Good thinking. Now tell that to the crew cheifs that couldn't find a way to keep the cars running low over the last two races.

The only reason Chevy has won so many races lately is because they've got the most drivers. Not the most winning drivers, they've just signed everyone and their brother. About half of the full time drivers are using Chevy.

By the way, Ford was the first to get 500 wins. THEN GM merged all the Pointiac teams into Chevy.

[Hoss Ghoul]

The only reason Chevy has won so many races lately is because they've got the most drivers. Not the most winning drivers, they've just signed everyone and their brother. About half of the full time drivers are using Chevy.

By the way, Ford was the first to get 500 wins. THEN GM merged all the Pointiac teams into Chevy.

Ford 572
Mercury 95
Lincoln 4

Chevy 604
Pontiac 154
Oldsmobile 115
Buick 65

Dodge 195
Chrysler 59
Plymouth 191

I'd take a GM, unless it's a winged car or a Thunderbird on a superspeedway ;)

[Hoss Ghoul]

The above stats are all-time, it gets worse if you only look at the modern era(1972-present)

Ford 292
Mercury 52

Chevy 462
Pontiac 86
Buick 65
Oldsmobile 31

I'd like to see an even more "modern" list, mabye one from the switch to small cars, and then one from the Tauras-era. Those delineate into eras where the cars become more and more similar, especially the Tauras/Monte Carlo era. It would probably narrow the gap somehwhat as the car to race becomes less dependent on whats available for the street(narrowing Ford's disadvantage).

[POS_Maggott]

Good thinking. Now tell that to the crew cheifs that couldn't find a way to keep the cars running low over the last two races.

But that's not a new issue at all, teams have always struggled with that at one point or another, even with the old cars. So whats your point?

[call_me_andrew]

But that's not a new issue at all, teams have always struggled with that at one point or another, even with the old cars. So whats your point?

It was never like this with the old car. The new car doesn't respond well to track bar and wedge adjustments.

[POS_Maggott]

It was never like this with the old car. The new car doesn't respond well to track bar and wedge adjustments.

No, they do respond, just not the way the teams expect it to respond. Which is part of the reason why it's so good, it makes the team work harder to figure out what exactly it does *positively* respond to.

[dont_be_jack]

No, they do respond, just not the way the teams expect it to respond. Which is part of the reason why it's so good, it makes the team work harder to figure out what exactly it does *positively* respond to.

Yep. The whole point is so that teams can't just go looking in a book that they've got and say 'Yea, add a quarter-turn of wedge. That'll do it." It's going to be more of a test on what the teams can figure out.